Latest / Financial Survival Network / Bitcoin & IRAs: Mastering Security & Custody - Joe Kelly #6153

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Bitcoin & IRAs: Mastering Security & Custody - Joe Kelly #6153 · Financial Survival Network

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All the keys, all the key material that's essential to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: authorizing bitcoin transactions on the actual network all held by
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: one based in their custody and so when you're navigating
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: through their app and trying to transfer bitcoin out that
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: they get it inside their application and then somehow their
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: structure to work to authorize and sign a key for
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of you. You can't pick poin uniquely self custody it right,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So there's options to hold your own keys. That's been
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that's advanced a lot in like the last decade plus
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: where from the very beginning, self custody was optioned for bitcoin,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: but now we have things like Harbord wallets, more consumer
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: friendly devices. You have apps on your phone that you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: could run that will hold a key on your phone.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: So really the idea is to take that key and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: move it as far away as possible from attack points.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: You were listening to Carrie Let's's Financial Survival Network where
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Survival Network more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Network now more than ever.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And welcome.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: You are listening to and watching the Financial Survival Network.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: I'm your host, Carrie Leutz. Well, bitcoin's been in the news,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: it's headed back up. We hold a small interest in it,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: and mainly to stay in the game, keep track of things,
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  Speaker 3: and security is a huge thing. Who do you trust?
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Who can you trust? And Joseph Kelly is with us now. Joseph,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: you are CEO and co founder of Unchained. You've got
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: over six billion dollars in bitcoin in custody. You do
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: iras with bitcoin all these things. Hey, I wanted to
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: ask you before we get into it, the way to
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: do it IRA with bitcoin. I guess it's similar to
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: of gold. IRA set up a checkbook ll C which
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: holds custody. It's a disregarded entity. It's owned by your
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: your self directed IRA. Is that how that works?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: That's been a common pattern. That's actually not necessary today.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: We we partner with a bank that is technically the
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  Speaker 1: IRA custodian. The bank is Fortis out of Colorado or
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: underneath Ortis. Our clients can still hold their own keys.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Uh so uniquely with our our IRA, you can still
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  Speaker 1: self custody. We'll soon have options available to if if
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: you don't want to hould your own keys. But yeah,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: that that was a that was the common practice for
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: how to go about holding big coin was was yet
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: through that self directed IRA route. But now there's some
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: adoption at a few custodians that that work in. Other
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: companies in the space like I Trust and others have
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: used Fortis or may may still so that's made it easier.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: All right and interesting. So, you know, my biggest concern
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: trusting anybody, whether it's coinbase, you name it is how
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  Speaker 3: do I know we're not going to get hacked? How
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: do I know it's not going to get stolen? Do
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: you carry insurance? Will? Who in their right mind would
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: write an insurance policy for this? Probably aig or Lloyd's
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: of London, if I had to take a guess to
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: share with us how you protect your clients.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So there it's important probably set up at this
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: point at a distinguishing principle operating for like an unchained
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: custoding model versus a coinbase. So coinbasoud be something like
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: a centralized custodian that they hold the keys to the bitcoin.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So for the you know, many billions of dollars worth
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a bigcoin they see you here today. All the keys, all
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: the key material that's essential to authorizing bigcoin transactions on
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: the actual network all held by coin Base in their custody.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And so when you're naviating through their app and trying
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: to transfer bitcoin out that they get it inside their
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: application and then somehow the structure still works to operize
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and sign.
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  Speaker 3: A key for you.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You can't pick poin uniquely self custody it, right, So
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: there's options to hold your own keys. That's been that's
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: advanced a lot in like the last decade plus where
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning, self custody was optioned for bitcoin,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: but now we have things like harbor wallets, more consumer
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: friendly devices. You have apps on your phone that you
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: can run that will hold a key on your phone.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: So really the idea is to take that key and
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: move it as far away as possible from attack points
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: by their partyers and an infiltrator. So people like a
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  Speaker 1: phone is pretty good or some secure enclaves on it,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: but if you did lose your phone or you had
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: something else like, you can probably believe your your key
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  Speaker 1: is lost at that point. See, harbor wallets are are
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: really good warm factors for storing key because you can
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you can also back the weapon ways, and you can
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: through multi sig, which is down chain. Worse, you you
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: wally start to have more of a redundancy. You have
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: multiple keys that you need to access in order to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: spend your bitcoin. It's a frind chain simply. You know
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the ball that a clipical client has With Unchained, it's
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  Speaker 1: a two or three multi sake. They have two keys
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  Speaker 1: that they get to keep themselves, maybe the one in
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: an office, one at their home, and then Unchain has
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: a third key, and so if they lost the key,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: they can come to Unchain and ask us to sign
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: while they signed one. But uniquely for Unchained, for that
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  Speaker 1: you know, six billion dollars for the bigcoining helped secure.
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  Speaker 1: We're not unilaterally in control of it. So it's guess
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  Speaker 1: there's really this kind of unique hybrid model that says
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  Speaker 1: you could hack everything at Unchained to the ground and
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  Speaker 1: I can't move into this client's bitcoin now I don't
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  Speaker 1: have subbficient keys. So it's really kind of a partnership.
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  Speaker 1: But we got a collaborative custody model with our clients
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and that helps always be more secure together.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, so you know when when you're looking at all
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: this stuff. One thing I saw was the SIM swapping,
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  Speaker 3: and it's a way that hackers. They go to the
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Verizon store, the T Mobile and they say, I lost
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: my phone. What can I do? And they show some
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: fake ID and they get they get you. They actually
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: get a new phone with all of your credentials on it,
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: and then they go through your wallets and they grabbed
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: the money. And I saw that that coinbase. Recently I
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: changed phones, I upgraded. Man, I'm still cursing it. I'm
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: still cursing it. But hey, you know, it's part of life.
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  Speaker 3: You know that, you know, one of the biggest things
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: in computers. No upgrade shall go unpunished, right, and you
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: know it's it's kind of pony. But basically, you know,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: it's not funny because the people I knew somebody actually
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: had a friend who lost nineteen thousand dollars from her
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  Speaker 3: wallet and was suing was suing T Mobile and the
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  Speaker 3: holder of the of her crypto account. So it's really
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: not funny at all. That serious.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, SIM swapping. The vector there I'm most familiar with
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: is you know, when you have set up like a
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: two factor authentication with a Coinbase or someone else that
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: goes to SMS, it goes through text messages. Uh, that's
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: a that's a common practice still with other financial solutions
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: as well. And so yeah, when you when someone is
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: able to port your phone number onto a different device
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: that they control and then they receive text messages on
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: behalf of you, they can circumvent uh, like you're maybe
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: your pre existing passwords or long ends at these at
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: these websites. So it's it's really a practice, like we
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: don't support any SMS authentication mechanism that unchained. We do
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: have a to A, but it uses the authenticator app.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: It's Google Authenticator. There's others that's more. We're usually scanning
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a QR code and so runs as an app on
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: your phone, which is way less susceptible or not likely
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to then be like ordered to copy the other copied
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: over each other phone unless you're okay.
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  Speaker 3: So so you've podcast that because it seems like that's
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: a really hard way to do it. But then again,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I think the carriers are also having liability for this,
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  Speaker 3: so they've tightened up the ability and someone to walk
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  Speaker 3: in right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that's been I mean there I think
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  Speaker 1: I would say, Michael Turpin, is that a big public
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: lawsuit with with T Mobile or the main major characters
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: if he was an investor that lost a lot of this. So, yeah,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: some shoppings and majorly on the rise over the last
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: few years and these days a lot more of the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: things we see are matters with fishing and spear fishing,
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  Speaker 1: people impersonating at coin base or impersonating and unchained and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: to people and greating fear and urgency around. Hey, your
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: coin Base account is hacked. Work with me to log
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  Speaker 1: in with you, and you know we'll help you move
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  Speaker 1: your your funds. That kind of a pattern is something
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: you know, people really need to be watching out for that. Really,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you know, no really good, legitimate financial institution is likely
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to be calling you with any kind of version instructions
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  Speaker 1: or security issues. You a lot alone, like Google and
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: others of the world. But that's the current generation of
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: like heightened attack vector that we see. Yeah, because that's
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  Speaker 1: you know, that is the right, right, the eight hundred
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  Speaker 1: pound gorilla. That's the first thing I'm sure any new
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  Speaker 1: client asks you, Right, it's about security, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's essential to our value proposition.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you can't do that, so, Hey, tell us,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: if I wanted to set up a self directed IRA
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: with you, how would I do it?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So we've done a lot of work to make this
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: onboarding very streamlines. We've had this product line for two years.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It was really really inherited. We'd acquired a gentleman and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: small business that had done this for many others, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: so we've been agate that in our platform and basically
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: go unchained dot com slash IRA I want to believe,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and there's a sign up button right there. You can
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: work through the flow to sign up for an account.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: We're down to where within a day or two we
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: just have to submit some of that information to our
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: banking partner Ortis, and then depending on where the person's
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: at and how comfort they are setting out the vault
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: themselves with their own two keys, or if they'd like
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: us to guide them that we can do that. That
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: takes a few days if we're helping out with that,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, right now, we change our pricing so
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the first year is free, there are some trading piece
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: when people purchase bitcoin with us, and then there's two
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: hundred fifty dollars of annual fees starting in the second year.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's pretty pretty streamlined by now. Thirty forty
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  Speaker 1: percent of our thousands of clients have an IRA with
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: us as well.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: All right, so we want to find out more about you,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: connect with you, set up an account. How do you
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: do that?
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Unchained dot Com is the principal URL a lot of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: ways to navigate from from there. A lot of our
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: specialty is in helping people with education. We consider our
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: role here as really as navigators. I think bitcoin can
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: be a personal journey. It's both an investment, but for
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of people it's also a new new way
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: maybe looking at the world, looking at money, and so
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of experts here that are able
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to help people walk them through security solutions for self custody,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: answer a question about irase. We also have a rest
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Investment Advisor affiliate, so actually a fully in subsidiary that
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: does financial planning and advice for people that want to
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: know answer questions about, for instance, how to balance our
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: traditional portfolio versus bitcoin as either grows or changes over
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: time in their porfolios makeup. So you know, we really
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: try to be a comprehensive Picklin financial service, the solution
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: for the long.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Term older all right, Hey, well, we just appreciate your
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: coming on sharing with us all these new developments, a
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: lot of which none of you out here knew about.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: I didn't know about it. And well, if you got
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: a question for Joseph for myself, shoot medi email kl
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: at Carrie Lutz dot com and you'll find a link
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: in the show notes to the site. And while you're there,
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: please just to sign up free free newsletter. Got a
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: lot of great info in it and shooting one off
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: tomorrow in fact does Its been a pleasure. Thanks so much.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: We'll talk to you again for sure.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Kerry, thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Survival Network, your solution to today's trying times. For the latest,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: more than ever