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Danny Masterson & The Church of Scientology · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Before we start today's show, dear is something that I have honestly never thought about happening before.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: It was not in my realm of things to think about, so bear with me, but today's episode we have Mandy Back, who was a previous guest on our show, telling her story of overcoming trauma, and she introduced me to a gentleman of the name Doug Scott Kramer, who has a YouTube channel and put his heart, soul and passion into his work.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: As most of you all know, our show is recorded way in advance.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We recorded this episode in the last week of October and December 17th.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: We got notification that, unfortunately, doug Scott Kramer had passed away.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Doug was a supporter of our show.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We connected immediately and had a great bond.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I was gonna be a guest on his YouTube channel.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we never got to that part before his passing, so I wanted to open the show by saying that this was a great show.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of sentiment with it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of powerful statements that come from both Mandy and Doug, and I hate that Doug never got to hear the finished product and I hate that I wasn't a part of his show.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: But I love the fact that Mandy introduced us and Doug became a friend.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: At the end of this episode, mandy will be joining me.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have a few moments of speaking about Doug and remembering Doug, and I would love for anybody that would like to join and listen in on that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I would love that.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I would love for people to send us messages on if they follow Doug's YouTube show Days.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: But Not Confused, doug will definitely be missed.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: He did great work.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: He will live on and this episode was a very powerful episode.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So please enjoy the episode and join Mandy and I after to remember Doug Scott Kramer.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Surviving Podcast.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Today's show is going to be different than we've done before.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: We've got multiple speakers on to talk about some hot topics right now with Scientology and a particular case that's been in the news.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: So I am going to let Mandy and Doug introduce themselves.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: So my name is Mandy.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I was on David's podcast about a year ago where I explained my situation with my ex-husband and how he used the death of our son to keep me in a relationship and, being one of those victims that was gaslighted to stay in said relationship and to believe that it was normal when I told friends about what was going on.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I have a very strong opinion when it comes to victims.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I to shed light on victims, not just male but also female, that they are both victims of these kinds of crimes and that they go highly unreported, and so, when this case came into light, I felt it was a huge beacon for those victims that are silently suffering, and that's why I asked David if we could do this, and that's why I asked my friend Doug, who has a YouTube channel about Scientology and course of groups, if he would also like to come and help talk about this topic, and so I would like to introduce my friend Doug.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Thanks, mandy.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: First of all, I really appreciate what you're doing and I think you're right.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: It is just because of the coverage that it got it goes on all the time as behind closed doors but because of the coverage the Masterson trial got and what these women, what it took to actually not only get it to court Scientology has another element but you have to survive their fair game tactics.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: In other words, they put these ladies under stimp pressure, up to and including poisoning pets, we have to say allegedly, but let's just say they operate like a mafia just to get these women to come forward.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: And the fact that they had to go through two trials, the first one being deadlocked, and they actually got him sitting in prison right now with the possibility of parole in the neighborhood of 20 to 30 years.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: It is a good topic to jump on to encourage other people to come forward.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: So I just wanna say thanks for having us on and I really support what you're talking about and I'm sorry you went through that.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: I understand what you're talking about.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks, doug.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Did you want to let the listeners know about your YouTube channel and kind of what you talk about on the YouTube channel, that way if they have any questions they know where to find you?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Sure, it's called days, but not confused.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: And basically my dad got into Scientology when I was nine and brought the what I call a mind virus into the rest of the family, because it had a profound effect and it spread to all of us.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: And I just speak out about that experience.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: And the reason I say it can relate to what you're talking about is because my family was like a cult of one, and then we had Scientology on top of that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So getting out of a coercive relationship is just incredibly challenging, and I had a difficult time, too, getting my friends and anybody to listen, and that's why it's great having a voice on YouTube, because people not only care, but it's caused a bunch of healing.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I think that those people that follow your channel and follow David's channel they, you guys both bring a light to things that have been taboo for a long time.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: So, as someone who follows both of you avidly, I would like to thank you both for your platforms and what you do for those who may or may not tell you.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I will post links in the show notes to Mandy's episode, which was a great, powerful episode that had tremendous feedback, and then, of course, links to your YouTube channel.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So I'm excited for people to revisit Mandy's story or listen again for the first time they haven't and to definitely check you out.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So thank you both for being here.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Mandy, I'm gonna let you take the will with this.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: It is a rabbit hole that you can go down and Doug's done a great job covering this.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: So if you have further questions, I suggest like checking out his YouTube channel, because he's gone down the rabbit hole of all sorts of things with this case.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I think I would like to start with just the fact that this just came to light for the mainstream public recently, I wanna say in the last, like maybe three to four years.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It brought to light and it came up with the Leah Remini show because she had one of the young ladies on her show and so that's where we as a public heard about this.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: But it started way beforehand.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: It didn't start when she brought Jane Doe three onto her show, and I'm gonna refer to them as Jane Doe one, jane Doe two and Jane Doe three because in the court that's how they were referred to and I personally don't know them enough to use their names.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: They're out there, but I choose to just refer to them as Jane Doe one, two and three.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: There are other Jane Does there's a total of five that were involved in the case, but three of them were brought charges against Danny, there's a Jane Doe four that testified in the first trial and then there was a Jane Doe five who testified in the second trial and they were witnesses.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: So Jane Doe three appeared on Leah Remini, scientology and the aftermath, and that's where we heard about the Danny master something full force and a lot of people.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: It was around the Me Too movement as well.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people thought it was going to jump on this whole bad wagon of throwing all these people under the bus because in the media that's what they were doing.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: They were like, oh, it's person X in this industry and it's person Z in this industry.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: And then it felt like it was Danny Masterson's turn.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: But that's not the case.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this case started well into the 2000s, especially with these three Jane Does.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Jane Doe three had been with him for six years and had gone to Scientology.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Like you're told as a Scientology, if there's something that happens to you and it's caused by another Scientologist, you go to Scientology to deal with that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: You do not involve the outside world.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And so she did what she was taught as a Scientologist and Danny Masterson was a Scientologist and if this had happened with someone who was not a Scientologist, they would have told her to go to the police.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: But because they were both Scientologists and that's all.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: The victims.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: In this case, jane Doe one, two and three were Scientologists.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: That's why this case is really important.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: That why they didn't go to the cops at the beginning.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Because in Scientology you were taught to go to the Scientology authorities and have them handle things, and that's what she did, because they believed that's how you were going to fix things.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And all of these women had gone to Scientology authorities, believing Scientology would help them.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: In this case, doug, would you mind telling us, did Scientology help them in these instances?
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: First of all, that was a really good breakdown.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: The only thing I would add is that one of the Jane Doe's did actually go to the police, went against Scientology authority.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Everything you said is correct I can tell you.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Being a Scientologist for over two decades, you learn policies are inculcated and indoctrinated into your mind where we knew damn.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: We do not report other Scientologists in good standing.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: What does a Scientologist in good standing mean?
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Because some people may not understand why Danny Masterson was so important.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: From the outside looking at, what does a Scientologist in good standing?
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons Danny in particular is important is because Scientology is all about money, narcissism and celebrities, which go hand in hand.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: He's important just by the fact that he's on that 70 show.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: He's bringing in millions of dollars and even though his ethics were out quite a bit according to cult policy and why he was pushed to the side and maybe not promoted as much in the cult as he could have been used, he's still a celebrity.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: His whole family are Scientologists, they're what's called whales.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: So he's important just by the fact that he's a celebrity.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: They have celebrity centers Mandy out here in Los Angeles and Portland, all over the world.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: What religion quote unquote.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: And it's not a religion, it's a destructive cult.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: That religion has celebrity centers, so that's why he's in good standing.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: A Scientologist in good standing would be anyone who doesn't have an ethics record, that's not being worked on.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: That's basically showing up taking choruses.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: A Scientologist not in good standing wouldn't be what they call a suppressive person yet that's when you're expelled from the church but they would be somebody that would be on some kind of ethics handling where perhaps temporarily they're removed from the group and they're not in good standing and then they might have to go through the conditions, money to do the cult, et cetera to get back in good standing.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: But if you're a Scientologist and you're on lines, as they call it, ie taking choruses and stuff, that's a Scientologist in good standing and then also just real quick.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: One of the Jane Doe's did go against their policies which is really hard to do and did report it to the police around 2003, 2004.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So that was one year after it happened to her right, because I believe it happened in 2003.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Do I have that right?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I think you're referring to Jane Doe, number one.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: She had gone to Scientology in 2002 about sexual assault.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: And then also in 2003.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And then also when she and you're right she was not happy with the way the church was handling things.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: She was told by her ethics officer that she needed to have a meeting with Danny, and so part of Danny's handling that Doug was referring to was they have to make amends, they have to tell people.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Basically, I'm sorry, I'm going to do X, y and Z to make sure you're okay with it.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm ever going to do this again, but I'm just going to do this to band aid the situation and move on, because that's what I'm supposed to do and I don't really have to mean it.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: This meeting occurred because Danny Masterson demanded that she go to this meeting, sit across from him and he would apologize that he'd never do anything like this again.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And she was forced by Scientology to attend this meeting where he would hear her tell him in great detail exactly what he had done to her, how it felt and, as she's telling this, because she naively believed like this is going to work.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: This is what the church is telling me it needs to do, and he and his friend sat across from her and laughed at everything they did.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine that I wouldn't say naively right, because she really honestly believed.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: And if it wasn't a psychopath because not everybody's a psychopath like Danny I've been in positions like that where you really would expect the person to apologize and stuff.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: So him and Danny, and Luke Watchum was his buddy, who was actually part, who was at the party and kind of Danny's right hand man taking care of things.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, can you believe that she went down there expecting to get an apology and they laughed in her face and that's part of what compelled her to finally say F you Scientology.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I'm going to the police, right, because she wasn't getting justice there.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Well, during this, I do believe and correct me if I'm wrong.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: But this is also where she got a settlement from Danny as part of his handling.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: She got a settlement and that was brought up in court a lot.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, you were forced to sign this NDA.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: You promised never to do this and he gave you money.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't kind of.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I felt like it was an insult to her, like you just bore your soul.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: We laughed at it.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And here's 20 bucks.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Take a cab home, exactly.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Not saying it's $20.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: But that kind of happened.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: $400,000.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a buy off, it was to buy her silence and, by the way, that's a mission of the fact that the church knew he was guilty too the Colton News Guilty, because they never pay her $400,000 if he didn't in fact do what she was accusing him of doing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: There's no way.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And so that's when I think she, that was like the straw for her.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Not only did he make me and the church trust the process like this is going to work, it's going to fix him.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And it was her and correct me if I'm wrong but if the church had handled him differently and had him stop doing it, she would not have gone to the police.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Exactly, mandy.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: He did this to himself.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: He had so many opportunities because the cult keeps everything protected from the authorities to actually genuinely appalled.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: He would not be sitting in prison right now and it never would have gotten to court and these gals later wouldn't have found out that there were others, because she was the only one that thought it was at that time, because they keep everything compartmentalized and away from each other and hush hush.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: All Danny had to do was apologize.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: It never would have gone to the police, agree to stop doing it again and he wouldn't be spending life in fucking prison right now.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: He's such an idiot.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: He's so narcissistic the whole way.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: He had many opportunities to make it right and he basically pushed himself into there.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: He should be in prison.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Thank God it went down this way because he should be in prison for what he did.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Those are just the two that they convicted.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Those 16 that have come forward and probably counting those are just the ones that have come forward saying they've been sexually assaulted by him, probably might be more.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: That's all I was saying.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Sorry, no, you're totally right, but that's the 16 or 17 that have come forward.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I believe there are others being pressured by the church not to come forward.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: And there might be more coming forward too, mandy, who knows, as people get more and more bold, that's just the people that actually have the balls to come forward.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: It was really small, so it's quite possible, and he was doing this all over the world, by the way the US, canada and overseas, wherever he'd be.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: So that's Jane Doe.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Jane Doe, she talked about how she was assaulted by him in 2003 and that she also went to the church to see what could be done about Danny, and obviously nothing happened.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So, doug, when somebody has something happen to them in the church and it doesn't have to be by another Scientologist, but if you got in a car accident and you broke your leg in the church, how would they?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: What would they tell you?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: If you got hurt or sick, or if you had something terrible happen to you, what would they tell you?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Would they be supportive oh my gosh, let us help you or what would they?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: If it's just a normal everyday affair that doesn't involve a Scientologist let's say you got in a car accident you would just handle it like normal people.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: It's only a problem when it's colt on colt member.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Let's say you're a public Scientologist, like I was I would handle my everyday life car accidents, disputes with other people in a certain way.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: But if it was a Scientologist I would not report it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: It's a world within a world and a law within a law.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: But Mandy, to jump off of your question, I handled the outside world differently.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: If I got in a car accident I would know according to colt indoctrination that there was a suppressive person or an evil person in my life that I would have to go down to the colt and locate and get out of my life.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Because it said that any accident or illness you ever have that includes getting the sniffles up to a car accident it automatically means that somewhere in your life and they'll find it on that e-meter through thousands of dollars that somebody is suppressing you and when you get them out of your life you will stop having accidents.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: So there's a whole way that you handle things like that from the indoctrination.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: But in terms of if you bring them to colt or not.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: As long as it's not a Scientologist, it's handled basically the standard way anybody does, minus what I just told you.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: But would they blame the other person or would they blame you?
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: They would mostly blame you because, like I said, if it's an illness or an accident, it's always on you.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: It might be the suppressive person that you crashed into and you would have to get rid of him out of your life.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: And they have all sorts of funky ways, mandy, where they put you on these soup cans and they think everything's mind over matter.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: All illnesses are psychosomatic.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: So rather than handling things in the real world, you can get really lost in a spacey place, dissociated space in your head, dealing with things, with that emeter in the auditor, to understand why you crashed into this person when a normal human was simply trade insurance and be done with it.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: So there's a whole lot of significance added to almost anything that's normal, like an accident that happens in your life that drives you freaking crazy after a while of thinking like that.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: So you have something Like a minor thing, like a car accident, it's brought in as your fault and what did you do?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: And so when we're talking about something as violating as SA and rape they and please correct me if I'm incorrect, but their view as the church if I went to someone telling them, their first action would be like what did you do wrong?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: It depends on, because we have Danny as a celebrity Scientologist and Okay, I won't say the name but Jane Doe number three, for example, was in a relationship with Masterson.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: So since she wasn't a celebrity as big as Danny and she was just up and coming and modeling and acting, danny's the one with the money, he's the up stat, as which they call it in Scientology.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: These are thought terminating cliches, or well, in words, to limit thinking, so they have all sorts of terms like that.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: So to keep it simple, you can figure out what that means.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Danny's up stat, his statistics are up, and Jane Doe, number three, is down stat.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: So automatically, if anything happens up to an, including rape, it's going to be looked at as her fault, probably not Danny's.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So one could equally ask what it.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: The question is what did you do to pull it in?
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Jane Doe number three?
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: In other words, if this happened to you, you must have done something, either in this lifetime or in many, or in past lifetimes.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: What's they'll find on that soup can machine?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: As to what you did to cause in this lifetime to pull in that situation, you could ask equally the same Danny, what did you did?
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: What did you do to pull this then.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: But since he's the up stat and she's the down stat, they're going to go after her first.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Danny's the more valuable asset and brings in the more money.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Who gives a crap?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: What happened to Jane Doe three?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And they did put her through auditing sessions and ethics conditions to locate what she did, probably in past lives to cause Danny to rape her sick right.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: But that's, that's how they beat you down and I believe in that philosophy for a good portion of my life and it seems very convincing and you can imagine what that does to yourself esteem.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: And it also allows the abuser to get away, because as long as they can beat you down and make it your fault I mean, mandy, the gaslighting that these girls had to survive they were in Scientology all three of them just to understand that they were abused and come to terms with that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Chrissy took, sorry, jane Doe number.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I won't say that the number now because they just accidentally said her name, but it is out there, like Mandy said, but I don't want to throw it out there if not need be.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: She had to have her, her mate.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Let's say, get her to understand years later that she even recognized that she had been raped, such as the gaslighting of not only the activity itself, but you add the cult gaslighting on top of that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: It can take you forever just to figure that out, just to survive, getting out of Scientology, and then to have the fortitude to go to take it to trial, withstand all the alleged fair gaming, the mafia acts to shut them down.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Two trials.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: That's why, by the way part of why not only Scientology you take it to first, but this explains why it took them so many years Two of the Jane Doe's to come forward later, in 2016, when it happened to a much earlier.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Just because of the very things we're talking about the world within a world within Scientology's law, and the understanding of the tremendous amount of gaslighting to even accept that you were violated because it's always their fault, yep it seems like the victim blaming is just extreme.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: But I'm also what?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Where I keep spinning around is this $400,000 that he had to give to was a Jane Doe 3 and Okay.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: But I just keep thinking like of course they're like, oh, give her $400,000 because this Makes it right, but then I.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: But then the cult gets to come in and take that $400,000 for her to repent, or whatever word it is for All the things that she did wrong for this to happen to begin with.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: So they got the $400,000, not her.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't even think of that.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Actually, You're absolutely right.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: They got a good portion of that just going past life to find out what she did.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah, and they would be thinking that way.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Wow, holy shit.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I also with Jane Doe.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Two, wasn't she the one, doug, that had the daughter that dany masterson had in the park, met in the park?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's Jane Doe that is.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: I know it's not number three.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I thought it might be one, but do you probably know better than I do?
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Is it two?
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: I know what incident you're talking about.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: So there was an incident, and we'll just say a Jane Doe, I think it's Two but I couldn't be correct.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Her daughter Was in a park with other children playing.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Dany masterson was on one side, the girl was on the other and there was these this little boy selling candy bars and and their class of how classes sell candy bars.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Anyway, dany masterson pulled this little boy away and he said I'm going to buy all of your candy bars.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: You need to go and tell this little girl something to tell her mom.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So he tells this little boy to tell this girl, and this girl goes to her mom and says hey, so, and so said he didn't rape you.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And then dany goes and gives money on account so this girl can get Scientology counseling because she doesn't understand what the r word is.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I was like what the hell?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So you just like, like, voluntarily traumatized a small child to let this girl know that your mom's lying.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't rape her.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And you're involving children in your For what?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, to show that how big of a dick swinger you are.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Like how big of a dick he is only somebody sick would do that.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Did you understand that, david, what she explained in audience?
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Danny bought all the chocolate bars of this nine-year-old Boy or I don't know how old the boy was to go over and tell the daughter of one of the jane doves that was accusing him of rape, that tell For that little girl to go home and tell jane, do tell her that dany masterson Did not rape you.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: And then, when the jane dove freaked out this is reminding me of like fatal attraction, like that's some psychopathic shit she says mommy, what does rape mean?
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: And because obviously it traumatized both of them, the mother and the daughter, danny then, to make up for it, paid for an auditing package for the nine-year-old girl who didn't know what the word rape was, to get fixed for the trauma that he just inflicted upon them.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Through the church.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's just a cycle and ever repeating feedback loop of insanity where it just makes everybody Gaslit and wrong and there's no justice served and actually drives you crazy after a while, which is the point of Scientology.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yep To add a little bit more for jane dove 3 when she went to Scientology because we had said that she had been in a relationship with dany for six years when she went to the Scientology authorities about incidents that had happened, her ethics officer told her that she could not be raped because she was his boyfriend, like they were in a relationship.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: You can't be raped in a relationship.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: She also said that it was her job to give him what he wanted and when he wanted, and that no crimes were committed because they were in a relationship.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: She later went to authorities in 2016.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So you have all this, all of these things that had happened and going to authorities that were police officers and not getting the respect that you wish you could have gotten If you had that, by a church and people surrounding you.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: How would that make you feel?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: It's not just the organization, but having a family, having your family as part of that organization, would have that same thought pattern.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So it's not just like your priest or your whoever you have a spiritual support, but your family has that same way of thinking that it's your fault that you did something wrong, that you need to go and repent or go to ethics or however you would prove or have that as your terminology to find out what's wrong with you.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Because you, as a person, did something wrong and you deserve what happened to you and that is mind-blowing as an organization to have Brainwashing and that level of abuse to finally come forward and to tell their story.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And they went to trial in 2022.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: About a year ago, the first trial of Danny Masterson came and there was drama with that as well.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: They had a Jane Doe 4, as I had mentioned before, who was a witness of what happened.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Danny Masterson never took the stand and never called any witnesses for the first trial.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: He also didn't do it for the second trial, but for the first trial he didn't call any witnesses.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: There were two key elements that were kept out of the first trial.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: The first one was Scientology the fact that these women had brought these allegations to their clergy people and that it was reported, and that they were told you cannot report it to the police.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: We will handle it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: The second one was the way that he performed assay, and I'm not talking about the act, I'm talking about the violence and the drugging.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: That was not an issue.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: They went into the trial thinking the jury thinking that these women had not done anything for over 10 years and just all of a sudden showed up and that they could have fought back.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: They just chose not to.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So having those two elements not as part of the case didn't really give the full picture.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And it was during the first trial towards the end that the defense kind of messed up and had questioning about church.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: The Scientology also brought in the drugging aspect.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So when they went to the second trial, because the defense had opened that door, judge Almeida, who is honestly, deserves an award for all the shit women went through.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: They tried nine times to postpone the first trial, the defense team, and each time she's nope, you're in my courtroom.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: This is the way we all play the game.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: She didn't care who you were, she didn't care what you did.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: You're all on the same level.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: And she gave no shits.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: She's great.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: That takes a judge like that, too, to not get snowed by Scientology because of the way they play.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: She was amazing.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was so great and because the first trial ended in a deadlock, they couldn't come to a thing and we could go into the jury foreman, put her cheese in the do.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: That's not a, that's a topic for another day.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: But it ended up being a hung jury and the DA decided that yes, we're going to do this, we're going to do it again, and they brought it to trial in 2023, in spring of 2023.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: And in that trial, in spring of 23,.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Not only did we have this, three same Jane Doe's, they were allowed to talk about how he drug them, how in one of the situations, he held a loaded gun to one of their heads to tell her to shut the F up during the attack.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And so we have that aspect.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: We also have the aspect of Scientology.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Claire Hadley was also on Scientology.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: In the aftermath she appeared with her husband, mark Hadley.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: They did an episode.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Mark has also written a book and they both have a YouTube channel.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Don't forget, behind the iron curtain of Scientology, I think is Mark's name, book's name.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Anyway, claire Hadley was a high executive in the Church of Scientology and if you wanted to know about Scientology policy and the nitty gritty from someone who has been a part of Scientology since the age of five.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Claire Hadley is the person that you'd want to talk to.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: She worked very closely with the heads of Scientology, david and Shelley, in the scavenge hashtag, where Shelley, but also she, knows the policy and there is.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Policy can't be changed.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: It was written by L Ron Hubbard.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: It is by L Ron Hubbard.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You do not change policy, so policy about how we do things is written down and you keep track of it, and so Claire Hadley would tell you exactly what these women were treated as, how those reports that they brought in, how they would be treated and handled, how they would be treated and handling Danny in this instance.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And she brought up a really good thing which was on.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: In Scientology there's a thing called the tone scale, and in the tone scale it talks about where you are in relationship to death.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Is that correct, doug?
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, it goes all the way below body death, all the way up to serenity of being this.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: It's a whole can of worms to open up that tone scale.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: But you got the basic idea.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: So if we as laypeople know body death is pretty bad right, being dead is bad right, yes, when do they find victims?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: On the tone scale according to where death is?
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know, you probably would know that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: They have one one where anybody like Dave, anybody that's gay, for example, is one one which is the most evil tone scale you can be on.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: So just by the fact of being gay, you're supposed to look at someone as being a backstabber, a liar, two face.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: It's this chart, this tone scale that she's talking about has a whole chart where we get programmed, place people on their chronic tone.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: So if someone's regularly angry, that's their chronic tone.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Just by the nature of being gay, for example, you're at one, an anger would be 1.5.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Below that is 1.1, which is the worst tone scale according to the bigamist, misogynist, and every other is hubbored, the cult leader.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: That's the worst thing you can be at.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: And then there is a section man below that.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know what number.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: It would be called victim, but the main one that we focused on was that one, one that's with.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: That was the suppressed person.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: That's the person that's probably causing the aforementioned accidents and illnesses in your life and that's the person that you need to get rid of the most.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: The whole thing's completely arbitrary.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: It's a mind control tool and it's actually pretty clever if you deep dive on it, just how important that tone scale is to Scientologists in general.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: It helps to shut down their emotions and make them into secondary sociopaths like Danny, if they're not already one.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: And it's just a, it's a whole huge manipulation tool.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: That's key, key to the cult.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So having, knowing and being taught that victim is on almost the same level as being dead.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you should never be a victim in Scientology.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: There's no such things.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: There's not a victim.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: No, you're always at cause, as they say.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: So you are taught that if this stuff happens to you, and regardless of how you feel that this is a violation, that somebody hurt you, and if you haven't been a victim of essay or rape or something so violent like that, there's a part of your soul that is no longer the same.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: And having that being told, that feeling that is no longer the same, or his whole, is your fault one, and it is so bad that you wish you were dead.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: That everybody else sees you as that and that is Claire Headley's testimony was what they did, how they would handle it and how these women would be told that you the only thing worse is body death.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: And you're not going through by what you're going through, and you cannot be a victim.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Stand up, put a smile on your face, act normal because everything's normal.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Go to ethics, admit your sins and what you did to bring this in and pay us thousands and thousands of dollars until you are correct and you no longer feel that way because it is your fault.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: You feel that way because you did something to have him do that to you.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I live that and I'm just getting blown away listening to you talk about it again.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: That's actually how I used to think, and it made so much sense, mandy, when I was in it, because one of the major things was you always want to be a car, they offer you superpowers and anything that happens, you don't have to be a victim of random life circumstances.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: You can be at cause over everything and that's the goal that you're going for, that set at the top of that bridge.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: So it's a clever way that whenever you feel like a victim which is the worst thing you could be in Scientology, because it almost says the tech that's their stupid word for their brainwashing.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: That means the tech if it doesn't work or if something bad happened to you, no matter what happens in your life, because the basic idea is you're always at cause and there's no such things as victims.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: You could see how that manipulation could get the church thousands of dollars for fixing things that are theirs or other people's faults, why you have this burden stacked on to you year after year about how bad you are, and what do you think that does to someone's self esteem and Scientology, while they think that they're becoming more powerful and free.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: It's the ultimate mind fuck.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Just listening to you, man, brings back some memories.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: The second thing I wanted to talk to him with the second trial was a blind witness.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: A blind witness is brought in to talk about the topic that they know.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: They don't know anything about the trial, they're not given information about the trial and so they're brought in about yes, the psychologist which was another great witness, by the way.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: that explained it perfectly.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: But please go ahead, yes.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Dr Ziv is a forensic psychologist.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: She was a witness in the Harvey Harvey Weinstein case and she was brought in to talk about one thing the non intuitive behaviors post attack on part of victims of a sand rape.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: That is the only thing she was allowed to talk about and the only thing she was allowed to be questioned.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Well, she wasn't questioned about how do you feel about what happened to Jane Doe one or in Jane Doe's two.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: She was not there to be questioned about that.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: She was there to bring her knowledge of that and to be questioned about that, and so that was part of the evidence that the prosecutors brought into the case.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: She talked about essay myths in society and how victims of essay could or should and do react in the moment and after, and how, as a society, we have this idea of how a victim of essay should act, and if they don't fit those criteria, then in our brain as society members, they either were or not.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: There's not a great area and how.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Not just society believes those myths, but the victims do as well, and so if I'm not telling the story how you think I should be, then maybe I am one, because it's another mind fuck of how we perceive victims of essay and what those essay victims should or should not be telling us or should not be telling other people or themselves yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: So the psychologist was brought in right.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: She talked about how, in movies and TV shows, someone who was a victim of essay it's usually somebody who jumps out of the bushes or holds a knife to your throat or gun, or they're lurking in your closet and they come out and attack you, and that is not the way it happens.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: That is not how essay and rape happens.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Do they?
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, they do, but 99% of the time it is not the bad man lurking in the shadows, it's not the guy coming out of your closet, it's your boyfriend, it's your significant other, it's someone you know in some way and it's someone you trust.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: That happens with 15% of essay victims would physically fight back in the heat of a moment, but that is just with a stranger.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: 15% would fight against with a stranger and it goes lower after you know that person.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Makes sense.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So you can.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: You find all these stories of men and women fighting back against my boyfriend or whatever.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I never fought back about my ex-husband.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I never once hit him, Never once.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Because I was in that 15%.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: There was no way in hell I was going to fight back.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: If I fought back and nobody came to my rescue I was going to get my ass kicked later.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: There's repercussions for fighting back.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: As victims, you're inherently learn those.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, 95 percent of the time a person will stay with their abuser.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: It takes at least seven times to leave your abusing or your abusing relationship.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: It takes at least seven times.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: That can be seven times mentally or seven times physically by making a plan and get a leave.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I can attest to that.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I was at least seven times before I moved in my car.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: I slept in my car.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Then she talked about testing the waters as a victim.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: If you go and you tell someone your story, you're testing the people that you're telling reaction on what they need to know.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: If I told you guys about my story and I didn't know you guys, I would tell you the bare basics and tell you asked questions about more.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Then I'd give you more information as you tell your story more, you give more details or you tell different things.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Those people can trust those people with those situations.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: That was a big thing for the defense in both cases.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: You told these police to this interview this thing and then, five years later, when they re-interviewed you, you told them this so is it a false memory?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: She brought up that?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't a false memory.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: They've always had those memories.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: They finally felt comfortable sharing that part of their stuff.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: That goes back to the myth.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: We think that you should lay it all on the table.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You should tell everybody all of this stuff, the nitty gritty stuff that you wouldn't even tell your doctor You're supposed to tell a stranger, You're supposed to tell a cop?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: No, that's not the way it happens.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: As you go forward and tell these things that happen with other people that you become comfortable with, then you would tell more detail or tell more of your story, because you trust those people now and you trust them with your story.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think that people realize, especially when it comes to if there's going to be a rape test done.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: It's really collecting evidence is what it is, but it's another form of violation.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: You're having to now undress in front of a stranger.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: You're telling deep, dark things.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It's so easy to just shut down.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: It's so easy to try to just pretend it didn't happen because there is no safe place.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: After that you have everyone inside your bubble.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I've been through it and it's devastating.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: The society's norms of what we would think that in your situation, David, that why wouldn't he tell us after we'd performed a rape kit?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't he tell us everything he knows.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Are you freaking kidding me?
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: He can't.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: He just violated him in a totally different way that his body and mind cannot comprehend.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: He's going to remember things six weeks down the road that he finally feels comfortable telling you.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: It's when you have just the act of that happening, those things happening to those women, knowing that from Dr Ziv, that you're testing the waters of stuff.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: But then you have the complication of Scientology on top of it telling you that it's your fault.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: It is no surprise that these women, when they finally got out, took years to realize that this was a violation and a crime and that it was okay to go to the police.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: In going and leaving the church, they lost everything.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: There are jobs, homes.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Some of them had to move and because of the fact that they were speaking against a member of the church in a bad, negative light, they became suppressive people in the eyes of the church, which opened them up to fair game.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: And fair game is where you go, and Elrond Hubbard talks about destroying them utterly.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: You can lie to them, you can hurt them, you could do whatever the hell, because we have the best knowledge available and we're better than them.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: And if they're attacking us, our members or our church, we have the right to attack them with PIs harassment and that's what the civil lawsuit is going on currently with Danny Masterson in the Three Dantos.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: It is about the harassment they have endured because of coming forward, and that's a totally different.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: That's a civil trial.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: That's a totally different thing and that was not brought up in any of the criminal trial.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: That was not allowed to be brought up because it was part of an ongoing case and you cannot.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: It was just not allowed.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: And so these women have endured so much more than we realize.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: So much more than we realize and the fact that not only did they come forward and they had people believe them and I'm not just talking about Leah because she's a celebrity, but Leah as a person, mike Linder as a person.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: They had these little things and the most interesting thing is they finally got their justice.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: Mandy, just personally.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for sharing that was super articulate.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: If anybody's listening, it's in a situation like that.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: That would have definitely affected me.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: That was really powerful.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you all for joining us for today's episode.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: I know we talk about hard things and on top of those hard things in the beginning of the episode we had mentioned the loss of a friend that did amazing work for survivors.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a few minutes and honor Doug's Mandy.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I'm so honored that I got to have at least one sit-down meeting with Doug.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I know this is hard for you, but I am going to let you take over and let's talk about Doug.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: He is definitely missed by a lot of people.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: If you were not familiar with Doug Scott Kramer in his YouTube channel Days, but Not Confused, you missed out on someone who cared deeply about his guests that he had on the topics that he covered and the lives of the people that he came in contact with.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: He had guests on from all walks of life and covered all sorts of topics.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: There was not a person that he had on that he didn't consider a friend.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: He definitely had his opinions and was not shy of those opinions, but he was always someone that would speak the truth.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: He was someone that would listen to ideas and support those ideas of friends.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: He was truly someone that supported victims and wanted to get their stories out because he felt every voice needed to be heard.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: He definitely had a story and he shared that with all of us.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I feel that every light burns bright.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: When that light is gone, it is definitely missed.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: I feel that Doug didn't realize how many people he touched and how many people he supported and how important people found him.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I just hope that now that he's in a place of peace and can see how much he mattered to people, I will say that when I found out the news that he passed.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: It was very hard and very unexpected.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: He died of natural causes and it was just a sudden thing that happened.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: When people found out, we were very shocked and surprised and felt like for me, it felt like a part of me was gone and was very lonely for what he brought to my life.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I'm very grateful that he did this episode and he had covered many episodes of the Danny Master's trial and when I came to him and told him my perspective about this episode and what I wanted to do with David, he was 100% behind it.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: He is definitely someone whose voice mattered.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: He let victims know that they mattered and that they were supported.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: This is the episode that took me the longest to edit.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I had to take a break every 15 minutes because I didn't start editing at it until after we got the news that he passed.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I would watch him talk or watch him listen, and the things that he did say, and especially when it got sentimental to us and personal to us, it was the fucking truth.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: It wasn't because we were recording, it wasn't for clout, it was the truth.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: What he gave to the survivor community while he was here as an advocate, what he will continue to give to the survivor community even after him being gone, is what I dream of.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: He's an inspiration.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: He offered for me to be on his show.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: It didn't get to happen, but I will always hold dear to me that it would have happened.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: And then it's such a.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I know that the topic in the episode we covered is hard enough and it definitely hits home to so many of us, but double-edged sword with the sentiment is that time con on tape with me and Doug is going to be forever in the universe.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: And I'm proud of it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Doug lived one hell of a life.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: He's such an inspiration because he took the shit and he made it into something powerful and amazing.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: What has given me some solace with this is in recording of Doug saying I have to make a difference, I have to make a change, and when I heard him say that, editing the episode after finding this passing, I was like you know what, you did it and it's going to live on and that is what I'm taking with me.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: As you watch his episodes, you get to know him more and more.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: You didn't have to be a personal friend of his to know who he was.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: He was that person.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: I will always miss my friend.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Rest in peace.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Mr Doug Scott Kramer, Thank you for the impact that you've had on me and the survivor community.