Latest / The SME Stream / Max Whitehead: It's time to brush up your CV

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Max Whitehead: It's time to brush up your CV · The SME Stream

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And welcome back to News Talk set B. I'm Tim Beverages.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: This is the Weekend Collector. By the way, if you
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: missed it, we've had a couple of stonk and hours
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: of a broadcast and we're gon't say so myself. The politics,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: we had a chat with Chris Hipkins around just what
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: they're going to be doing looking at to get back
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: comparing the whole capital gains tax sort of thing. And
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: also with the mayor of Central Hawk's Bay, Alex Walker,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: about the Mari Wards and all that sort of thing.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So that was a fun hour for talkback on the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Politics Hour and for interviews, should I say, And also
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: just gone now as the Health Hub with doctor John Camill,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: which is great fun. And the fun continues of course
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: because this is smart money and joining us in the studio.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I used to have long introductions written for my guess,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: but then you sort of get to know him, don't you,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: when the audience get to know him. So I just
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: said coming up to Max. I should have said coming
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: up as Max Whitehead last hour, I just said coming
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: up as Max. Actually, of course I thought for a
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: second it is Whitehead, not white House, who was the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: moral campaigner.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You've always had trouble with that some guy and Wong
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: He wasn't it?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: You got a politician used to get confused with too.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Max Bradford used to call me.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Oh that's oh gosh, you've got a.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: He was like, keep a grudge.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I think where was he? The MP for Tataware or something?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I think Max breakfeeling.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: It was your MP. I think, wasn't it somewhere near
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: right to earl when I was there?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Anyway, I am very very good.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I've been listening to your last hour. That was really good.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of politics Phil spilled over into that area too,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: But I thought you and John Reddy were pumping it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And there I heard I heard my call.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Come out of there. What was that? Oh? The question
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: was one of the dealers come in saying why why
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: a medical you know? Oh? Yeah, actually that's right.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this person was saying, why do I have
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to get a medical stuff every time I'm secon et cetera?
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: And I thought we should throw that to you.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Why not you here? You're an employment consultant the Whitehead Group.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I eight hundred something.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Did you hear that?
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  Speaker 1: Folks?
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  Speaker 2: I eight hundred something. Actually twenty four to seven ninety
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: three ninety three. That's that easy.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Actually would be funny.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I wonder what the numerics thatt have cod for something
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: else started to say, literally eight hundred and something.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Now makes your question is this what was a big timer?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, no, it was the medical stuff. You got it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So the question was brought in, is why do I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: have to get one every time? It's expensive? Blah blah blah.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And obviously his employer doesn't trust him.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: And I thought John answered it quite well. The reality is,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: because there's some people over there put a lot of
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: bers into it, they're not really sick, and so the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: employers have a right in law to say, give me
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: some legitimate proof you're sick. But what's happened?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Actually, okay, quickly, just while I got that thought, legitimate proof?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: If you sent them a bucket that showed you'd been sick,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: would that be enough. Here's here's something I produced five
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: minutes ago. Here's the I mean, there's some evidence.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Ah no, don't bucket full of view going that? Goodness
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: me that it could be anybody. Your producers got a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: little kiddy, it could be ill. Then that could be
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: that Dad could use it to be going off for
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: getting a couple of days off ill work.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Don't give an idea, by the way, he actually, but seriously,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: is it a question of trust that really if your
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: employer is I mean, there'd be some really large organizations
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: or just have a blanket policy, which if you are
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: working on minimum wage or you're sort of you know,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: not anything less than thirty bucks an hour or something,
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  Speaker 1: you might feel, oh gosh, that's ridiculous. So I have
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to I'm going to take a day off work, but
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  Speaker 1: they don't trust me. What do we know about the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: general practice around that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Sort of thing?
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  Speaker 2: Because employers have nothing nothing, they can't they can't challenge
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: you and say, hang on you, we're not sick, because
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: they're not doctors, and so they must put them to
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: the doctor. But the problems of doctors, it's just what John,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: your doctor John said to you, is that the doctors
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: have to look at someone who's well and then writers
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: a certificate to say they're unwell. And that's where it
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: just sits uncomfortable. Most doctors just sign them off.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: What are most employers employers do?
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  Speaker 3: Actually, we're not very happy of doctors. I can tell you.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: Oh really, why Well, they just sign anything.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Oh so the rat bags who are having a gu
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: what about the doctor and the doctor signs it off?
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: What about?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, but do most employers insist on a medical
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: certificate for everyone from day one? Because I mean, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: would think that if you are a good employee with
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: a good employment record, you call up, you say you're sick,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't think much of your employer if they were like, well,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: give me a medical still it when you've worked for
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a year or so without a SICKI.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Gets better than that term. Some people do five years,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: not one sick day. Then they have a sick day
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: and the employer will go, you can take two days
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: in and it's not a problem because you've been so
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: loyal and good to us, no worries. So yeah, there
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: is some good employers out there that will recognize that,
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  Speaker 2: and I would say majority of them.
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  Speaker 1: But legally, if they want to, if they've got a
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: massive workforce and they don't trust any of you, they
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: can say you want to be you want to take
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  Speaker 1: a day off, we need that medical certificate otherwise you're
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: not getting paid.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: You got it.
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  Speaker 2: Otherwise they've got no rights to actually challenge in an
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  Speaker 2: individual at all that they're actually unwell.
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  Speaker 1: What would they do if you didn't provide that? Would
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: they just say, well, you've just taken a day of
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: leave or something, or day or day without part?
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: What do they do?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's very very difficult for an employer to say
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  Speaker 2: you were you were actually well, unless they've got evidence
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: of them and there has been this racism, had their
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: photo taken or something like that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously the rule would be if you have to
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: provide a medical stiff then what happens if you don't?
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: So what do they do?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Well, it's very little they can do. So they can
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: challenge the employee and go and look what is actually
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: wrong with you? And that's what they're encouraged to do. Yeah,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I know in a freezing works where I was working
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: there and the department that's what you got the people
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: to do. So if anyone had a funny day off
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: like Friday or Monday morning, then you'd get them in
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  Speaker 2: and saying are you all right? Is there anything we
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: can do to give you support? Is there any illness
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: there that perhaps maybe you're going to pass it on
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: to the workmates or anything, and just hang on?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: That's throwing it's on our heads for me because you
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: say that they can ask for a medical certificate, but
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: if you don't provide one, it sounds like it's not
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: open and shut for the employer to say it's not paying. Okay,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: so they can ask for a medical stificate, but doesn't
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: sound like there's a lot backing that up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: No, there's not a lot really backing it up. But
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  Speaker 2: that is a last resort and employer has entitled for it,
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  Speaker 2: and if you don't provide it, they can discipline you
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  Speaker 2: for not giving them medical certificate.
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  Speaker 3: Oh okay, now what discipline might Might they be a warning? Probably? Okay,
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  Speaker 3: it's the worst discipline you could possibly get. Unleast it's
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: the best or something.
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  Speaker 2: At least it's happened over a whole string of times.
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  Speaker 2: And then they go right, oh, that's a dismissal.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so they can't actually, so they can't. Okay, that's good.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to get to the remedies. So
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  Speaker 1: they can ask for medical stiffic get they're entitled to ask. Fine,
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  Speaker 1: if you don't provide one, you might get a warning,
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  Speaker 1: then you get another warning, but they can't actually just
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  Speaker 1: dock your pay or take a day take a day
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  Speaker 1: off your leave.
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  Speaker 2: Not not just like that. They've got to have genuine
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: proof that you're run. Well. Now, look, I tell you
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: the circumstances are coming up now. So a person's been
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: seen at the airport flying in and he's just had
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a week off ill. And so the employee said, you're
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: not getting sick paid because that you have not been
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: genuinely you've been on holiday. And so the guy actually
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: went took it to the court and won it because
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: he said the holiday was very good for my illness.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: So I took a time off. They've been seen on
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: fishing boats fishing for the day and their workers come
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: back and said, well, actually it was therapeutic for.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Me to go fishing.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I needed that time on that time bloody well, you
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: get this mental illness.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Now people seem to think at a right to have
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: a day off.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Well, that's does raise the interesting question is what is
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: a legitimate activity you can do why you are officially sick.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: So if you happen to go down to your local
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: cafe for a slap up binge of Missus Meghan's pie shop,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Missus Meggans is the reference to black Adder, So you
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: could do that and say look, I was sick, but yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to have some hearty food at my
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: favorite cafe to make myself feel better and back off.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Ye what about I decided to go?
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  Speaker 2: Of course, you know if it's if it doesn't fit
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the remedy that you're putting to it, let's getting a
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: little ridiculous. And I think the employee could challenge you
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: on that.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Can you because you can take time I'm off of stress?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I guess can you can you take sakifa?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Well not, I don't know, but it's people think out
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: there and now I listen, folks in now here, you
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: don't have the rights to take time off of stress leave.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: It's not automatic. If you go to your doctor and
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the doctor says, my goodness, you do need that time off,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: then yeah you can, and a lot of doctors will.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: But then suddenly flying to the Gold Coast might see
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: as eroding that trust.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Well wouldn't it be not?
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: But that I mean, if seriously, if you're stressed, and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: let's not say Gold Coast, let's not encourage any more
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Australian tourism. Let's say you decide to fly down to
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Queenstown and somebody sees you down there, I said, yeah,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I've been really stressed and I went down to stay
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: with some friends or because I need some time out.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: That's legiti actually that to me, I can convince myself that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm always I used to get very very stressed.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I don't do it so much now on a Monday
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: morning after a big, long, long, long, long weekend, and
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: then my heart would be pumping faster than normal because
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: it's probably full of alcohol from the whole weekend, trying
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: to get over it. I've got a thumping here day.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not very happy and I'm stressed.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Is this Max talking or just to your imagining a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: particular scenario.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Max when he was younger?
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Oh right, really, I've lived, I've lived. Yes, good on you.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, you can give us a call of if you'd
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: like to pick Max's brain about that. It was a
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: bit of a hijack of the topic because it came
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: up in our medical hour with doctor John Cameron, just
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: about medical certificates, and I thought, you know, we got
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: you perfect one now because we're going to get onto
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: having a bit of a chat about the uber contractor
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: versus employee case. But just firstly though, because this might
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: not be such a lengthy topic, but I have there's
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: been a bit of chat around in the employment in
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the recruiting space about AI and cvs and all that
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff, and there's even been the question about
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: whether cvs are really in use as much as they
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: used to be. But they surely must still be there
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: because if if an employer doesn't know someone, you want
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: a CV, don't you.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And look, the good thing is like you can
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: go on LinkedIn and generally if people are registered on LinkedIn,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: you can get their work history, which is really important.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: But there's two things of cvs.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Now is LinkedIn the pretty much the de facto default
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: you beiquitous like the Facebook for cvs as.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It well, No, the LinkedIn is just a really good
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: tool for anyone to look at somebody's work history, to
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: have a look at them as an individual, what they've achieved,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: what they've gone through. So if you want to build
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: up your profile anywhere, use LinkedIn, folks, because it really
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: is good because employers do look at them out there. Now,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: if you're not registered on there, a lot of people not,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: then the employee doesn't get a glimpse in you do
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: need a CV. CV is really important if you're going
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to go for a job now the CV, keep it minimal,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: don't need to go for pages and pages and pages.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: How wonderful you are?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: What if you are wonderful though? What if you've just
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: got so many strings to your bow that you just
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: have to you know, that's the thing.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: What do you leave and what you leave at?
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Look, I can just imagine yours. Yeah, from conducting an
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: orchestra to being on this show, plus what you go
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: lor degree.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: It could go on.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Three sentences and that's all I know.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Oh you're a father, which must be even there more challenging.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Well, the reason I mentioned is because and I wonder if.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: This is for.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know what Christopher Luxon had on
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: his CV right throughout his career but now on LinkedIn.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: If you have a look at his CV, he traces
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: his whole employment history, which starts from I think he
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: was a porter at the Crown Plaza in christ Church,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: he was a part time bergers a McDonald's I think,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and he lists the small jobs and you can trace
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: his whole career up to when he was at Unilever
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I think, and then Prime minister.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: But he puts.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Everything in but I'm curious to know whether when he
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: was say middle management or going for those Unilever jobs,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: whether he had McDonald's in there, or whether he shoved
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that back.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: And no, you wouldn't put that in there.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: So the key to going to a CV is less
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: is more, So you really just summarize it. Now, with him,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: he would come with a reputation. Now, of course he
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: did a little stint at the New Zealand you might
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: remember that when you missed that one.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I think that's in there. Yeah, yeah, I think it
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: would be.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: But you can imagine he would only mention the corporate
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: jobs and his background. Now there's two.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: No, he didn't. He mentioned everything.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: The CV should contain two things. Your work history. Just
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: don't go back to two forever and ever because some
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: old people like me, you'd full up pages of him.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So you go back a little way now. Right now,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: people are interested in his background because has he actually
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: lived a life? If he's flip Burgers, well I would
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: say that's excellent.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Well that's why I wonder whether he put that in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: when he went into politics. Course it shows Oh so
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you reckon that when he was on the corporate ladder.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Less relevant. It's an interesting one. Yeah, if you've got
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: to run.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: An airline, you don't need to say, oh, flip Burgers,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: because that really doesn't spin the wheels for anyone making
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the decision to appoint you over someone else.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: It depends. So I had a job as a tourist
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: guide when I was sixteen at Rainbow Springs and wrote
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: a RUA and I guess, if you're going for a
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: job where you're communicating, would you put that in?
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Ah? Would you leave it out? Particularly your job? Yeah?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to entertain these people. You actually have
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: to encourage. Yeah, well you do and right now you do, so,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I mean that would be relevant to what you do today.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I was going to say to people,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you know, your CV is not the only tool. If
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: you've got a job like teams and you're applying, say
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: for a radio show, well then you obviously need an
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: audio or perhaps perhaps someone for TV. You want to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: have video now, Look, videos are very important, So if
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: you've got to brush up on anything, get your presentation
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: skills good because a lot of people now are interviewed
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: on zoom. So I've been talking to an HR person
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: just in research for this, and they said Yep. A
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: lot of them are zoomed in and zoomed out. Yep,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: we'd bring them in or teams in her case. But yeah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: so you really do need to get your skills right
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: for that as well, and learn to be more succinct
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and give direct answers very quickly and succinctly and cover
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of ground.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you, Actually, what did you
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: what did you leave out of your CV?
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: What was it?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: What did you put in when you're putting together a
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: CV for a job. Give us a call on O
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to hear
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: from you. Here's just before we go to the break.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Here's Luxeon's Christopher Luckson's history and it goes right back
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to being a paper deliverer for the Hower can puck
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: a ring of times? Okay in nineteen eighty two. Did
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: that for a year by the look of it. Then
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: he was a staff member at McDonald's part time. Then
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: he was a concierge and porter at the Park Royal.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Don't worry that was going forever. Then there's a whole
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: bunch of things he did at Unilever. In fact, he
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: lists one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: which starts at management trainee to brand manager for New Zealand,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: then to Australia and then to president and CEO and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: for Canada at Unilever, and then he goes in New Zealand.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: But he starts.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting that he started with
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: paper deliverer for the Howard can Puck a rung of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: times and staff members.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: See, I liked, I really really like that.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Well, see, I would say there's a real man who's
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: experienced a bit of real life. Too often I see
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: people at the top who really have no understanding or
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: understand or perhaps even feelings for people at the bottom.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: So do we like that in his CV? I do,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But so we don't leave that out.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: No, no, but for that job he's Prime minister.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Oh gotcha?
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: If I was looking to be the CEO of you know,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand, no, I wouldn't be interested.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean you might be slightly interested.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: It's two things.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: They never got this out.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Two things you've got to get is your work experience
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: and also your achievements. Very important, your achievements. What have
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you achieved? And you've got to be able to support that.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, like we want your cause as well. I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text nine nine two.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: What would you leave in or out of your CV?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And actually would you trust AI to generate your CV?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Because they say apparently that they can tell when a
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: CV is AI generated. I would no doubt. Then I'm
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: not sure they could actually, But if you've just said,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: make me a CV, then maybe they can.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: But it's very clever. I mean, I use it quite
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: a lot, but actually make me a CV. Yeah, but
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: for goodness sake, check them, folks, because they have impurities
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: right through.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you actually tell you what AI
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: is really good for, you just say this is my CV,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you do it all yourself, and you'd say, just tidy
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: this up for clarity and spell.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: It's amazing and it is not too bad.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: So anyway, and then change the formatting so people don't
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: say I recognize that formatting from chat GPT anyway. Eight
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty ten eighty What do you leave
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in or what do you take out of your CV?
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Or do you leave it all in there?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And tell them exactly how many bottles of milk you
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: delivered in your suburban milk round for.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Three years when you're a teenager.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: It's twenty four past five.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: News Talk zed B. Yes, News Talk z B.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It is indeed on with Max Whitehead is an employment guru,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and we're talking about cvs. What are you leaving? What
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: do you take out? Or do you just shove it
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: all in there and let them work it out for themselves.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I guess that's not the answer. No, But anyway, let's
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: take some calls.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Matthew, Hi, Hello, Matthew, Hi there.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: I had a question about would you on a CV,
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: would you put your references details on that CV if
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: you've given them a heads up, or would you write
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: referees available on request?
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: An interesting question. I think it's a point of view
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: of what you would think. I think I put it
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: on request. You can come back to me and I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: will give you those referees and plus then you can
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: give them a heads up someone's coming after you to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: ask you some questions. It just gives you some degree
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: of control and I think that would be better for you.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I've I've just moved to that. And sometimes
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: I just if you're in a job a long time,
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: sometimes the old references are kind of long gone, especially
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: with a supermarket or something. I was wondering, what do
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: you what do you look for whether it work reference? Like,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: what would an employer want to they want to speak
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: to Essentially two things. Yeah, they're chipping in for you.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Aren't they.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: No. Two things they look for is a work experience
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and you know what level of work you've done and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: sort of who you've done and work with. You know
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: who's been your previous employer. And the other thing is
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: what have you achieved while you were there, because they're
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: going to measure you up to say is this person
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: innovative or are they going to follow the rules or
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: are they going to go off and be a loan
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you know, lone wolf. So there's a lot of things
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: in there that they'll try and read in between the lines.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: So my view is keep it short and sweet, but
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: certainly make sure you tick both those boxes.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Actually, Matthew, there's a difference between references and referees because
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the references are the people who you've worked for, But
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: referees might be I don't know your coach from your
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: sporting team or some mentor do you is a sort
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of job where you need a referee as well, because
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that's more about your personal character and everything.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, I think I did actually mean. I mean like
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: we're like, yeah, so I've got my former boss, so
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: not my current boss, but I've got my former boss
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: had a long stint there and we're kind of friends,
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: and you know, probably had the most longevity in that workplace,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: and I'm the most proud of it. So he's he's
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: there and he'll he'll be perfect. So it's kind of
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: like a bit of a wrap around. I don't know
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: if I should use the current one sometimes because you
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: know you're ditching them. They might not be happy about it,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: especially in this you know, you never know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Way, so.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: If anyone's interested in you don't want to get somebody
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: from your local one. But you certainly keep that other
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: guy and he'd be perfect, you know, the one you
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: just said. He had a good relationship with him, like friends.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: He'll speak very well of you. I'm sure the current one. Look,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: they probably will be asking for someone, So keep keep
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: an ear at for someone who's going to look after
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: you and make sure you're find.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: What sort of work is it, what sort of.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: What sort of industry.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not really looking to leave my job necessarily.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Know what type of jobs we're talking though, what's what's
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: your what's your what's your bag?
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Are you a carboner or are you working a supermarket
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: or doctor or so.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: I used to work at a rural lodge at Sonana
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Lake Road, Owedy, a beautiful lodge out there in hospitality.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: So I was working there in the National Park essentially
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: it's it's the main hotel up there, so you're basically
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: a hotel worker. And I did a bit of everything
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: up there, like housekeeping, gardening, laundry, that kind of work.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: That sounds like, sounds like a lovely spot. It's is
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it quite flash?
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: It's an old lodge, but it's well run, great service.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: So that's in yeah, Lake Road of Weedy, which is
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: like you know the Nelson Nelson.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Lakeers you got it, yeah, Matthew.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: So what you rattled off to me just quickly then
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: was really ideal. So if you could say I was
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: more of a I did a whole lot of range
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of due jobs and that, and you just mentioned three
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: of them for example, I think that would really sell you.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So you've you've really had experience on a wide space
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: spad and I think people would be interested to hear that.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah nice stuff, thanks, thanks, cool, Yeah, yeah, lovely spot too.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: By the way, I've just gurgled.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, I just.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: I like, it's like a mental holiday.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Just click on, I have a look at a few
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: pecks and then hey, maybe one day hang on, let
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: me just check the time. It is twenty seven and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a half minutes to six as we say, good afternoon, Emma, Hello, hello, Emma, Hello, Hello, Hi.
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: Hey. I just wanted some advice that sort of a
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: challenge that myself as a parent returning to work several
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: times I have three children, but also a lot of
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: my friends face and that you know, I've worked hard
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: to build my career. I worked for twenty years. I've
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: got at what I do, but kind of taking a
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: bit more of a lead role in my family. I
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: only need well, I can only do, say, thirty two
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: hours a week, and what I find feedback I get
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: from a lot of the roles. So I don't really
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: want to go into a big role because I don't
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: have the capacity right now. But I'm still very very
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: able to add value. People will say, oh, you're too
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: senior for the roles, or you'd get bored, and it's
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know how we get ahead of that narrative
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: because I want to be able to add value I can.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: I don't want to take your job. I've got thirty
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: two hours. How do we make parents seem like an
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: attractive proposition for employers?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: That's a big question here.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Because it's common. I understand what you're saying in because
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I've heard that before, and I think there is some.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Real real cop out when they say you're too senior,
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: Like I don't what are they really saying? They're scared
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: you're going to take our job.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Let me give it to you from their perspective, because
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: you put somebody in the role who's way over qualified
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: or experience too more, they get bored very very quickly
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and get very disruptive.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: In the end.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I think they're worried that you're just going to be temporary.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: That would be at emma. I think they think you're
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: going to get in there and look, you're sure you
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: want the job now, but the six months you're going
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to disappear. Well. I know I'm not saying that I'm
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: buying your story.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: But I'm just I've bought my twenty year career in
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: marketing working in great roles and value. How do we
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: keep me in the leadership pipeline? You know, if I
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: say to you this is what I need, you know
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: and I you know I'm not this whole, I'm going
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: to get bored and be disruptive. No me a parent
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: that gets bored and disruptive. It's working people.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: I reckon to acquire. Hey, I don't worry em.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I reckon you should be self employed. You do sound motivated.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You do sound someone who will use their renovated And look,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you already know that what experience your head's going to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: be helpful? Why don't you get going and put another
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: approach them? Would you like to outsource your marketing sources?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: So where are you at?
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: What sort of work are you?
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: So?
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Where are you at? And the job?
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, well, I do actually I actually am employed
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: at the moment. But I wanted to answer the question
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: because so many of my friends faces and if we
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: really want to encourage equity in leadership, where you're going
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: to have to get our heads around how we retain women,
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: particularly when if that you know, it's sixty hours of
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: work a week unpaid at home, if you have children.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: By the time with three children carry a job as well.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: But you know, if you have a partner that should
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: be a lot easier. But if they have a demanding job,
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: this stuff is really tough, tough, you know. And I
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: just think if women feel like it's not worth going
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: back to work, particularly senior professional women who are actually
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: the ones that are going to change the system, nothing's
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: going to change.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Hey. By the way, when you say thirty two hours
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: a week, would that be four days a week or
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: sort of five days?
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: That's still a big week, totally, totally and also but
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: also like if you.
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: Are working in the system that's based on forty hours
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: a week, if you really want to better fit into
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: that system, thirty two is the minimum you're going to
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: be able to work, really because to meet meetings and
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: expectations for people, if you're.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Efficient, you can get forty hours done in thirty two
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I imagine.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: Well yeah, I mean, as you guys will know, parents do.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: But we still get paid eighty percent of the salary.
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: But that's also broken anyway. Okay, that's cool.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: No, good on you.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: No, I'm glad you've thrown that into the into the
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Mexican Emma.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: You and plus you've got a powerful personality. I think
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I would worry employees, you're not going to tolerate. You're
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: not going to tolerate shiit, You're going to just what you're.
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: Saying to me that that's actually an advantage but also
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: a massive disadvantage.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're running with the hairs and hunting with
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the hounds.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Great, OK.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I mean that's you know, that's life. Hasn't it cheered?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I mean often strengths and weaknesses and vice versa. Yes,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I think I recognized him as voice. Actually I think
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: she is. She's got a few things going, but she's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a very powerful advocate for working.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Mum's getting on.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: The strengthen her. You can tell that she's got She
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: would be very very capable. I reckon she'd be able
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: to sell herself to do the marketing sources for anything.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And look at New Zealand businesses. Ninety seven percent of
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: them are very small, less than twenty people. So she
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: she'd fit in just perfectly to market some of them
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Hey, I think we need to take a moment
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and come back after the break. Tarmody is next. We've
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: got a few texts to get onto as well, and eight,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number if
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: you're listening about that, if you've just joined, and you'll
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: be like, what are they talking about? The original The
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: origin of the conversation is actually about cvs. What are
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: you sticking and what do you leave out? Which may
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: be the leaving out sometimes can be more important because
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you don't want to bore them with every tiny little
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: job you've done, or do you depending on what the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: relevance is, it's twenty two minutes to six anyway, welcome
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: back to the show. I don't know why I said it, anyways,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: because I was chatting with Max Bradford. Bradford, you sowd
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: that seed. Max, you said sometimes you can refuse money.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: White Head Max Whitehead from the white Edd group.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Because we're just chatting.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: About probably listening in and going, no I'm associated with him?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no no.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: We were just talking about Abba, weren't we.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And yep, I still look at those videos from I
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: had a huge crush on an Agneta when I was
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: probably about six years old.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: But there we go.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: She's a little old greenie. Now are you still doing
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: it right?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Let's let's take it by the way we need to
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: talk about we'll touch on the Uber thing.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: In fact, let's do that.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Now we can come back to some texts about cvs
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and things like that. But that ruling about Uber, who
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: ruled that these particular contractors were employees, has now had
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: this repercussion that can anyone be a contractor or are
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you going to be designated to be an employee? What
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: do we know about that Uber case that basically said
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that people who Uber wanted to be deal with a
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: contractors suddenly their employees they have to give them leave
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: all that sort of thing and your leave entitlements and stuff.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: What do we know about that case and what it
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: means for contractors generally? Right?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Good question, because I've really studied this decision because I
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: think it's got huge ramifications for New Zealand as a whole.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I tell you why, Tim, because most of New Zealand
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: is a contractors now, and I'd say we're a nation
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: of contractors really, and look that's what Uber drivers are,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: They're contractors. So what that means is that they were well,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: these Uber drivers were free to work only when they
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: wanted to and as long as they wanted to. They
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: didn't have there was no compulsion, so they had a
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: lot of freedoms. And they bought the car that they
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: wanted to buy and they could use it, but they
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: had to maintain it, so they had those freedoms as well.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: But the decision still is that they are an employee.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Was it because these these particular contractors were just having
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit too much put on them by the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: company in terms of expectations, And that's why the facts
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: were just two And it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: who's working for Uber is suddenly going to be an
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: employee or.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: The Uber company had total control over their remuneration. They
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: had total control over how much each customer's charged, so
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: they too a lot of controls. Yeah, a lot of controls.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: So that was part one of the tests provided. But
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: the Court of Appeal did not like what the employment
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: court had said. They said, no, you've got all that
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: wrong and this wrong and that wrong. So I've given
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: us a very good steer in terms of what constitutes.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Are now getting back to your original.
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: Good for employment lawyers, isn't it absolutely there's going to
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: be the Already nine hundred Uber drivers have got a
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: claim when the Employment authority for back pay six hundred
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: six years.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: They can go back six years of pay nine hundred
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: How many employers or companies are going to be nervous
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: about anyone who's working as a contractor.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly Well, I would say most of New Zealand bigger companies,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: particularly government departments, have contractors in there. Now, I think
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: there's a distinction to be made, but it's really difficult,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and you're dead right to what you said. Em Employment
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: lawyers and advocates are going to make a field day
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: of this. The Employment authority are going to be choking
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: full of applications right now.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Ah, it sounds to me like that if the courts,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: if this is seen as.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: The problem is, you know what you read in the media,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: People go all these four employees have been found to
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: be contractors, been found to be employees. It doesn't necessarily
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: follow that on the facts everyone else who's a contract
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: for Uber is going to be designated to be employee
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: because the circumstances might be different. But it makes everyone nervous.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: So therefore, is this one of those things where well
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you can't wait for another case necessary in front of
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the Court of Appeal where the government might step in
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: and say, okay, we're going to issue some clarity around
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: this so they can maybe still support the uber thing
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: up to a point.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: But spell out more clearly.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Why everyone doesn't need to be petrified that every contractor
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: is now an employee.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: And the Minister has already said that, and she said
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: even the beginning of this year she's going to clarify
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: the definition of what constitutes an employee and a contractor.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: That's Brook van Velden.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is say that she's doing work on that,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: but we do have a stair as to how they're
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: going to define that, because they don't want to do
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: anything radical, they've just got to try and say, listen,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: let's not frighten the horses. This is what a contractor
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: is and these are the factors that are going to
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: overstep that mark into employee.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: That she hasn't given us a hint a knowing her
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: politics as we do. You've had David Seymour on her,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: that's her leader. You know that she is really supportive
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: of businesses and productivities for New Zealand, which I think
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: that's what we do need to focus on with regards
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: to this decision. So Section six of the Employment Relations
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Act that defines what an employee is, and I think
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: you'll find that she is going to be focused on.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: That and what's at the moment.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: That's what the Court of Appeal have actually defined and says, well,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: uber drivers are.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And look section six of the what some people look
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: themselves at.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, no, I love a look of my own time.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: No, it's it is interesting, but it doesn't tell you.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: You see, they need to still apply the rules. And look,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: the rules that they apply applies to all Uber drivers,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: so I don't think there's going to be any difference.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So nine hundred Uber drivers now have a very very
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: strong case to get six years of back pain.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing. If you see, there'll be smaller
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: employers who have who have engagements with contractors where they
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: might be a little nervous and you could be sympathetic
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: to them. But no one's going to be really sympathetic
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to this monster machine called Uber, are they.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: That's and that's where.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I think you're going to They're going to pack their
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: bags and get the hell out of here. And look,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I worked at ad HP, which is the hospital here,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: and a huge proportion of their staff for contractors and
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I was the employment relations manager for Auckland Council and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: there was a massive number of people employed by Draken
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: those days, which is now by another organization. And I'd
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: say thousands and thousands of people that are contractors been
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: there for six years doing forty hours a week. They'll
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: fall into the same.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, if they've been in the same
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: job for years, then Bengo, the person who's contract to
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: them has probably got an issue.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't mind Mimby.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: The police have all employment law have got hundreds, if
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: not thousands of people there on contract Oh, lots of
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: government departments have They're worse at it than anybody.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Brook van Velden will be doing her homework stringently,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: whon't she right?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And she I think hopefully she's aware that it's going
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: to affect a huge part of the whole nation here.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Our economy will be really leveraged off this.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: We might have to have a chat with her on
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: politics or such.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I know.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: So that's why I'm laying this.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Good on you swing the seed with My producer's probably
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: taking notes right now right tell you what We're going
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to come back with a few more texts just about
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: the CV thing. But if you want to have your
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: comments around, if you're in a situation as a contractor
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: where you've been expected to turn up for the same time,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: same number of hours, forty hours a week, et cetera,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: and you're being designated a contractor, are you're going to
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: be suddenly having a chat with your employee your contract
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: door and seeing if you can be designated as an
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: employee because it's payday time for you. If that's the case,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: eleven minutes to six News Talks, he'd be Hey, so.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I tell you what My producer, Tyra, who is in
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: her twenties, has remarkably sort of I wouldn't say middle
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: aged taste because that makes it sound crusty, but she's
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: got sort of mature tastes of music. Max. We've had
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: a Billy Joel, We've had some Abba, We've got Elton John,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Barnes.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Actually good stuff.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Isn't Cold Chisel coming back for tour? I can't. I
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: think I saw Cold Chisel We're coming back. I think
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that lead sing was Jimmy Barnes. Wasn't he anyway? Completely unrelated? Max,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: let's do some texts Max Whitehead, should I say embarrassed
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I call you the wrong name before? Sorry? Okay, here's
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: some texts on the just the employment front. Hi, I'm
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a full time employee. I'm currently sixty four professional, Love
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: my job. Can I continue working after I'm sixty five?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Or or my employer got the right people?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Anyway? Can you be forced to retire sixty five?
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: No?
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, not no, because it's just the super of age.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: But if you're making you know, you're making mistakes at
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: work and those sort of things, and you're slipping, you
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: could be forced to retire, but not for age. They
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: cannot discriminate against you.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: That actually came up when I noticed that Chris Sipkins,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: when I was chatting to him in Our Politics are
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: he talked about.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: He I thought he was being sixty four year.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: He distinctively drew a distinction. He says, no, no, no, we
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: don't have a retirement age. We have a superannuation age.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: And I actually thought that from many people, that's probably
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: an interesting revelation where we just assume you have to
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: retire sixty five, But all it is it's an age
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of entitlement where you can get the super but it
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything beyond that if you want to continue working.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, we had a couple of pilots here that worked
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: for another company not here in New Zealand, and then
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: they were under their rules and were made told to
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: stand out at sixty I think it was, and they
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: fought it based on New Zealand law and they won it.
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Last night I hosted these awards for Saint Kent's for
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: some former students who had done amazing things with their lives,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and one of them was Dr Peter Ring, who is
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: an ophthalmologist and Pete's and Peter isn't as Pete, I
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: don't call him Pete. Peter is in his seventies and
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: he's still practicing wow ophthalmology, and he's still right into it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: And why wouldn't you.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Be if you're functioning well, why not? I totally agree
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: if the young people couldn't find work but his work
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: out there. But if somebody's really functioning well, hang onto them,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: putting them in place.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Where do you think you'll retire?
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: I have no idea how odd you are, Max, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I don't expect you to own it up right now.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: At Winston Peters. Oh well, he functioning as a politician.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: He's one of the cleverest one with the Cunnings. I'm
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: not a big fan, but I mean I've got to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: say he shows them up every time.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: He's an interesting cup of tea, isn't he? Because of
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: his age?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes he can really annoy you and other
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: times you go thank goodness for Winston. He really is
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: quite a wily old.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Again Biden who should have resigned because he is resigning
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: because of his age, and of course that other I
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: want to be president and there he's may come back.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: He's nearly going to be what seventy.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's the old one in the equation now.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Trump, So we've got a few oldies out there right now,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and maybe I could make prime minister one day or
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: president of New Zealand.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Well yes, well you have left the run, did you?
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: That was offensive?
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: But what okay?
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Anyway? He guess what that You know what that really is?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You don't you shut me down?
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I know that is. It's we got thirty seconds to go,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: so it's time to say it bye.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Max. So for people want to catch up with you.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Eight hundred twenty four to seven ninety three ninety three
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: got it, folks, I weight one hundred twenty four, seven
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: ninety three ninety three or I eight hundred something.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: You want to get hold of me, do that.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: And thanks for my producer Tyra Well Tira, thank you
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: great music today. Some of the texts loved your music
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Tyra.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: See we're winning and we'll catch your same time for
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the weekend Collective next week. Sunday at six is next.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Stick around for that. Have a great evening.