Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / NBA Top Shot Investing

Transcript

NBA Top Shot Investing · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast from the Action Network.
0:13
Speaker 1: I am Chad Millman. The biggest bets in the sports
0:18
Speaker 1: world right now are taking place, not in sports books,
0:23
Speaker 1: not amongst friends, not on street corners, in Delhi's in alleys,
0:32
Speaker 1: wherever else sports betting could take place. They're happening on
0:38
Speaker 1: a small, still in beta platform called top Shot. What
0:45
Speaker 1: the bleep is top Shot? We discussed this last week
0:49
Speaker 1: on the show with Darren Ravel and Simon Hunter, and
0:53
Speaker 1: we have an interview with the CEO of top Shot
0:56
Speaker 1: and Darren that's later on in the show. The other night,
0:59
Speaker 1: Darren had the CEO of top Shot on his Buyer's
1:03
Speaker 1: Market show that we do sponsored by eBay, all about
1:06
Speaker 1: memorabilia and sort of the the n f T non
1:09
Speaker 1: fungible token space and sort of how this market is
1:12
Speaker 1: blown up. At that point, the concurrence on his show,
1:17
Speaker 1: we're close to six thousand, six thousand people watching at
1:19
Speaker 1: one time, which is a huge number on Twitter. Uh
1:22
Speaker 1: And our first guest today, our first guest today has
1:25
Speaker 1: already paid the most money ever for a digital highlight
1:30
Speaker 1: on top Shot, and that has already been broken. That
1:33
Speaker 1: record has already been broken, and he is now trying
1:37
Speaker 1: to turn a one thousand dollar investment into a hundred
1:40
Speaker 1: thousand dollars on top shot. He's going to come up
1:43
Speaker 1: in a few minutes, a few minutes. He's also got
1:45
Speaker 1: a great Action Network story. One of my favorite people,
1:48
Speaker 1: one of my favorite former Action Network employees. But first,
1:52
Speaker 1: my co host, my brother from another my bff. You're
1:56
Speaker 1: a wise guy guide to the galaxy that is the
2:00
Speaker 1: wonderful world of betting on sports. Mr Simon Hunter, Hello, Chad,
2:07
Speaker 1: it's going on. Brother. Hey, remember last week when you
2:09
Speaker 1: and Darren were talking and you guys kicked me off
2:14
Speaker 1: afterwards to keep talking about Pokemon cards the show was over,
2:19
Speaker 1: and like, you guys got so into it and the
2:21
Speaker 1: conversation about your Pokemon cards that you guys just had
2:24
Speaker 1: to keep talking on the zoom. Yeah, he was just
2:26
Speaker 1: showing off, you know, Darren is it was a pretty amazing.
2:29
Speaker 1: He's just pulling out his collection of cards he bought.
2:32
Speaker 1: He bought a bunch of cards that are graded one,
2:34
Speaker 1: so it would be like, I mean, he was pulling
2:36
Speaker 1: out cards from like the nineties, forties and fifties. They're
2:40
Speaker 1: so sick. I mean, like Darren, obviously people know Darren collects.
2:43
Speaker 1: His collection is just unreal like he he has he
2:46
Speaker 1: has like the rookie m J. He just has everything.
2:49
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I can't believe you just have this
2:50
Speaker 1: in your house. I keep any good card. I have
2:53
Speaker 1: this for third with ten K. I just keep in
2:54
Speaker 1: a lockbox at the bank. It's like cool to go
2:57
Speaker 1: check out. But I'm just so paranoid about he keeping
3:00
Speaker 1: it around me in my house. But dari was just
3:03
Speaker 1: pulling out the work so it was just hilarious because
3:05
Speaker 1: we're just all right next to his computer, so he's
3:06
Speaker 1: just pulling out thousands of dollars worth the memobilia, like
3:09
Speaker 1: it's just nothing. Imagine being in a zoom meeting with Darren,
3:13
Speaker 1: which I am often, and in the middle of a
3:14
Speaker 1: zoom meeting, he will he will interrupt the conversation that
3:18
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with anything that he's thinking about
3:21
Speaker 1: and start showing the tickets that he's bought to the
3:26
Speaker 1: you know, the nineteen eight miracle on ice game in
3:29
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. He'll just like hold it up
3:30
Speaker 1: to the camera as close as you can get and
3:32
Speaker 1: start showing it to people. But I do want to
3:34
Speaker 1: remind people, you know, you and Darren in your ongoing
3:38
Speaker 1: geek Fest love affair. Uh you you mentioned you have
3:41
Speaker 1: a lockbox with all these different Pokemon cards that are
3:44
Speaker 1: going crazy in value, and you and Darren on Thursday
3:48
Speaker 1: night on at Action Network h Q on Twitter, you
3:51
Speaker 1: will be reviewing the Pokemon cards you have in your lockbox,
3:55
Speaker 1: and we will find out Haraldo Rivera style. Of course
3:58
Speaker 1: nobody knows what that is, but rather Revera style, what
4:01
Speaker 1: you have and how much it's worth. How excited are you?
4:04
Speaker 1: What do you think you have? If you find out
4:07
Speaker 1: you have half a million dollars with the cards in
4:09
Speaker 1: that lock box, what are you gonna do with it? No? No,
4:12
Speaker 1: I mean best case scenarios. I was a maniac as
4:15
Speaker 1: a child, so first case you're looking for condition. Um.
4:19
Speaker 1: So the only card I saw because it was flipped
4:21
Speaker 1: over was base Set, which is like the basically first
4:25
Speaker 1: editions came out then second ever released was base Set.
4:29
Speaker 1: So I'm just hoping it's not a box full of
4:32
Speaker 1: like throwaway cards, like cards I put in this box
4:34
Speaker 1: because they were no good back in like twenty years ago,
4:37
Speaker 1: because that would just be hilarious if we do this
4:39
Speaker 1: live bit. And I'm just pulling out basically just pulling
4:43
Speaker 1: out like cards that are just worthless. But I'm gonna
4:46
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I'll find something good. Basically when I
4:49
Speaker 1: got these cards, I got a bunch of first edition,
4:51
Speaker 1: a bunch of base so like over the years, just
4:54
Speaker 1: going through my stuff, like stuff I packed from high
4:56
Speaker 1: school and put down the basement, or like stuff my
4:58
Speaker 1: brothers packed up from college or high school and they
5:01
Speaker 1: put in the basement, And I mean, man, I like
5:05
Speaker 1: I found a first edition um Char's art, which is
5:09
Speaker 1: they're going for like K right now. But guess what
5:14
Speaker 1: I did. I wrote s H on the back of
5:19
Speaker 1: the card when I was a little kid because I
5:21
Speaker 1: had cards stolen, so like this is something I did
5:24
Speaker 1: in like third or fourth grade. So that was pretty
5:27
Speaker 1: devastated when I flipped it over and I saw that back.
5:29
Speaker 1: But I've had some good pools so it's made up
5:32
Speaker 1: for it. But that that one, I'm eventually still gonna
5:34
Speaker 1: sell because I still don't think people care, or I'll
5:37
Speaker 1: just keep it as a piece of art, like I'll
5:39
Speaker 1: put it into like a nice little thing the artwork
5:41
Speaker 1: to hang up because it is worth like if it
5:44
Speaker 1: was mint, which it was. Besides my name, and there's
5:46
Speaker 1: a little bit of whiting along corner. The people are
5:48
Speaker 1: buying it right now for three So yeah, pretty sickly
5:51
Speaker 1: when I flipped it over and so my initials, Oh
5:54
Speaker 1: my god, that makes me stick to my stomach. Before
5:58
Speaker 1: we get to our top shot guests, UM, I do
6:02
Speaker 1: want to and people need to know what's going on
6:04
Speaker 1: in top shot. It's insanity yesterday. Uh a top shot
6:09
Speaker 1: digital highlight. So for two hundred eight thousand dollars. Um.
6:14
Speaker 1: So before we get to our top shot guest, I
6:17
Speaker 1: do want to have one quick take. Carson went to
6:19
Speaker 1: the Colts, big news, leaving Philly happy for you. Maybe
6:25
Speaker 1: you care, maybe you don't. Maybe you were you wanted
6:27
Speaker 1: him to stay. Maybe you want Jalen Hurst to be
6:30
Speaker 1: the quarterback. I don't know. You're a Philly fan, Eagles
6:32
Speaker 1: fan did not really move the number. What is your
6:35
Speaker 1: take on Carson went to the Colts and, uh, super
6:38
Speaker 1: Bowl futures. I mean I shifted it from to one
6:42
Speaker 1: to what one? I think? Look, I mean little skills
6:46
Speaker 1: a little bit, so basically from my standpoint, like them
6:49
Speaker 1: in the Dolphins we talked earlier, both teams. I'm invested
6:53
Speaker 1: about two grand each into them to win each on
6:55
Speaker 1: both teams, So it's teams I'm definitely interested in. Um.
7:00
Speaker 1: The Carson Wentz movie is just interesting from every standpoint. Uh,
7:04
Speaker 1: the Eagles just gave up on a guy they claimed
7:06
Speaker 1: was their franchise quarterback exactly a year at this time.
7:09
Speaker 1: They literally just paid them and now they're letting them go.
7:13
Speaker 1: So as an Eagles fan, I have to put faith
7:16
Speaker 1: into Howie Roseman, who I honestly have zero faith in.
7:19
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Maybe it's the right move and
7:21
Speaker 1: Hurts will be good, but just statistically, Hurts is not
7:24
Speaker 1: good and he has flash plays, so maybe he'll work out.
7:28
Speaker 1: He will get better statistically, but right now, just looking
7:31
Speaker 1: on paper, he's not good. But he's a rookie. So
7:34
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw out last year and I'm gonna give
7:36
Speaker 1: him this next year to really show me what he has.
7:38
Speaker 1: But with Wentz, it's just interesting all around. With the Colts,
7:40
Speaker 1: they're they're literally committed now that they have to pay
7:43
Speaker 1: him this money. So it might work out with They're
7:46
Speaker 1: going to get a great deal if he's good, because
7:47
Speaker 1: they're only paying them about twenty twenty two a year
7:50
Speaker 1: to be their quarterback. And for the upcoming season. I
7:53
Speaker 1: love everything about it. This is a team that's gonna
7:56
Speaker 1: have a ton of cap room, and all these other
7:59
Speaker 1: teams are gonna cap space basically the caps coming down,
8:02
Speaker 1: So these middle tier free agents that would be getting
8:06
Speaker 1: big money, they might end up just going to the
8:09
Speaker 1: Colts for a pretty good deal. Not not what they
8:12
Speaker 1: were going to get before last year. But I just
8:15
Speaker 1: think they're gonna be able to fill in a lot
8:16
Speaker 1: of these holes on this team that doesn't have many holes.
8:19
Speaker 1: So for me, on these early bets, I did I
8:22
Speaker 1: did like that move for them. I'm pretty pretty happy
8:24
Speaker 1: about my early bettlement Colts. All Right, all right, I
8:28
Speaker 1: guess I might have to get him in the cold one. Then, Uh,
8:33
Speaker 1: let's get to our guests. Should we sign up our
8:35
Speaker 1: guest today, Jack Settlement. I can't believe I'm having freaking
8:39
Speaker 1: Jack Settlement on my podcast, Because before Jack was at
8:43
Speaker 1: a million followers on Snap, before he was a big
8:46
Speaker 1: time influencer, before he had a really big podcast, he
8:50
Speaker 1: was just a kid. He was just a kid who
8:53
Speaker 1: was a student at the University of Texas who applied
8:57
Speaker 1: to the Action Network. We were a year old. He
9:00
Speaker 1: wanted to be on our social team, and we fucking
9:03
Speaker 1: hired him. It was his first job out of college,
9:06
Speaker 1: it's like two years ago. And then he was so
9:10
Speaker 1: good we made him the head of all of social
9:14
Speaker 1: and then two weeks later he quit. Two weeks later,
9:19
Speaker 1: right before the NFL season, fucking Judas. He quit on
9:23
Speaker 1: us and I was on vacation. To this day, I
9:29
Speaker 1: believe that Jack quit when I was on vacation because
9:32
Speaker 1: he knew I would convince him to stay and it
9:35
Speaker 1: would keep him from all of his dreams. Uh, Jack, settlement,
9:39
Speaker 1: how are you, buddy, I'm doing well. I was a
9:41
Speaker 1: student at the University of Texas. I did read Chad
9:45
Speaker 1: Melman's book in under twenty four hours to prep for
9:48
Speaker 1: an interview with him. I did do all of those things,
9:50
Speaker 1: So that is true. I appreciate it. And now I'm
9:53
Speaker 1: having you on this very popular podcast True Story. Yesterday,
9:57
Speaker 1: I was on a call with folks from the in
10:00
Speaker 1: a group you know, who are our lead investors at
10:02
Speaker 1: Action Network and UM I mentioned and we were we were.
10:08
Speaker 1: Top Shot had come up and I mentioned I was
10:11
Speaker 1: going to do a top Shot pod today and I
10:13
Speaker 1: subscribed who I was having on the podcast. But I
10:16
Speaker 1: didn't mention your name, and one of the turning guys
10:18
Speaker 1: said to me Jack Settlement, and I was like, yeah,
10:22
Speaker 1: he goes that kid was my neighbor. And now you're
10:28
Speaker 1: a very popular influencer. How the tables have turned uh
10:34
Speaker 1: in thirty seconds or less. Other than your time with
10:37
Speaker 1: Action Network, UM described to people how you became the
10:41
Speaker 1: influencer that you are. Well, I lived two lives. One
10:45
Speaker 1: is on Twitter and that's everyone knows me for top
10:47
Speaker 1: shot betting stuff like that. And then my real company
10:51
Speaker 1: is Snapback Sports, which I built essentially sports Center on Snapchat,
10:56
Speaker 1: which is used to watch an hour of Sports Center
10:58
Speaker 1: on Saturday mornings. Now kids are three three minutes UM
11:01
Speaker 1: and then build out content from that, got onto every
11:04
Speaker 1: single platform and just connecting with the next generation of sports.
11:10
Speaker 1: But like, why did yours work? Everyone's trying to do that.
11:14
Speaker 1: What did you do that worked? I went to where
11:17
Speaker 1: people were not first of all, so everyone's Instagram and Twitter.
11:20
Speaker 1: I went to Snapchat, so first mover advantage there, and
11:23
Speaker 1: then secondly, I think connected with the community. So you
11:26
Speaker 1: see a lot of companies they can build page views,
11:29
Speaker 1: they can build UM viewership, but can they build community
11:32
Speaker 1: and true audience and what social media was supposed to
11:35
Speaker 1: do it was connect us to athletes, and like Lebron
11:38
Speaker 1: was supposed to be replying to other NBA fans, He's
11:42
Speaker 1: never doing that in a million years, whereas I'm actually
11:45
Speaker 1: answering fans back, responding to their opinions. Like Steven A
11:49
Speaker 1: goes on first take, he talks for an hour and
11:52
Speaker 1: then he's not going back and forth with his audience,
11:55
Speaker 1: and I'm actually doing that, and I think they appreciate that.
11:57
Speaker 1: On top of that, sports centers posting through unbiased lens,
12:01
Speaker 1: and sports fans are the most biased fans in the world.
12:04
Speaker 1: It's the reason why, you know, why they're obsessed with
12:06
Speaker 1: these guys. So I'm posting a lot of stuff through
12:09
Speaker 1: a Ravens lens. I went to Uto, so Texas is
12:12
Speaker 1: Back is commonly on the channel, and people troll and
12:15
Speaker 1: it makes people more tuned into the rave. Like when
12:19
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson through the interception in the first quarter against
12:22
Speaker 1: the Titans, more people tuned into my channel and my
12:25
Speaker 1: reaction than they did for the Super Bowl because they
12:28
Speaker 1: want to be there to see how I post about
12:30
Speaker 1: it and talk about They want to troll me, they
12:32
Speaker 1: want to get excited about it, So I think the
12:34
Speaker 1: true connection with the community is a key Wait wait, wait,
12:37
Speaker 1: wait wait, you just basically said that more people tuned
12:43
Speaker 1: into you after that Lamar Jackson interception in the playoffs
12:47
Speaker 1: then tuned into the Super Bowl. For for for my
12:50
Speaker 1: audience specifically, I'm saying they were more interested in that moment. Yeah, No,
12:54
Speaker 1: I do not. I do not have more viewership than
12:56
Speaker 1: the UH than the Superrule. But I did have my
13:00
Speaker 1: Super Bowl moment, which was I was the only video
13:03
Speaker 1: that filmed the Gatorade shower. Because as my history says,
13:07
Speaker 1: I've worked at the Action Network. I know that's a
13:09
Speaker 1: highly bad prop and I knew to cover that. So
13:12
Speaker 1: I did get a lot on that on that day.
13:15
Speaker 1: And it came full circle Jack because in that moment,
13:19
Speaker 1: UH our story was ranking first on Google for what
13:23
Speaker 1: color was the Gatorade? We had massive amounts of users
13:26
Speaker 1: on the page, and I believe we were using a
13:31
Speaker 1: picture that we might have grabbed from your video. It's
13:37
Speaker 1: it's all good pay back to us. Yeah, exactly. For
13:42
Speaker 1: those songs who didn't listen to the podcast last week,
13:45
Speaker 1: we want to talk a little bit about top Shot,
13:46
Speaker 1: because it really is this risk driven speculative market. It
13:51
Speaker 1: is the equivalent for sports betting, is completely analogous and
13:55
Speaker 1: it basically top shot is a marketplace. You go on
14:00
Speaker 1: line and it offers these digital highlights, you know, five
14:04
Speaker 1: second digital highlights that get encrypted and you can try
14:08
Speaker 1: to get packs UM. Top shot will release new packs,
14:14
Speaker 1: or you can buy individual highlights and you can sell
14:17
Speaker 1: individual highlights in this marketplace. And in this marketplace there
14:21
Speaker 1: are hundreds of highlights, thousands of highlights. Some of them
14:25
Speaker 1: are very rare, some of them are common. They all
14:27
Speaker 1: have different sort of values that are set by the market. Right,
14:31
Speaker 1: so I could go on and try to buy a
14:34
Speaker 1: zach lavine dunk and it could be one price and
14:38
Speaker 1: then twenty four hours later it could be tripled the
14:40
Speaker 1: price and it would happen, and then we're going to
14:42
Speaker 1: get into that. But in the past sixty days, the
14:44
Speaker 1: prices on these things have exploded, and it's been in
14:47
Speaker 1: line with what has been happening in the memory of
14:51
Speaker 1: bil your market, in the crypto market, in the n
14:54
Speaker 1: f T non fungible token market, kind of crypto kitties,
14:56
Speaker 1: which is what started that UM. In the last thirty days,
15:00
Speaker 1: I think there's been sixty three million dollars in trades
15:04
Speaker 1: that have happened yesterday. This is Tuesday. On Monday, I
15:08
Speaker 1: mentioned a Lebron highlights sold for two and eight thousand dollars.
15:13
Speaker 1: Of the ten highest prices paid for top Shot highlights,
15:20
Speaker 1: five have been since February. And Jack, you helped get
15:27
Speaker 1: the ball rolling here. You you either started a market
15:30
Speaker 1: or you have created an industry that will kills sports
15:36
Speaker 1: memorabilia because you paid what was it about, about fifty
15:43
Speaker 1: grand for a lob or Lebron highlight not even a
15:47
Speaker 1: month ago. Explain what happened, Explain the situation, Tell people
15:54
Speaker 1: what you did. So I got into physical cards in March.
15:59
Speaker 1: Really have really I loved it. I love this concept
16:02
Speaker 1: of you know, I came from you guys. Sports betting
16:04
Speaker 1: I love. But it's a zero sum game. So my
16:06
Speaker 1: best example is, like you could have said that Mahomes
16:10
Speaker 1: or Rust Wilson is going to have a great year
16:12
Speaker 1: and bet him for m v P. But even if
16:14
Speaker 1: they finished second, you're left with nothing. So sports cars
16:17
Speaker 1: kind of mitigate that risk. They obviously mitigate the upside
16:20
Speaker 1: as well. So I really dove into cards, investing players.
16:23
Speaker 1: Everyone's always been like oh, I think this rookie is
16:26
Speaker 1: going to be a stud I think this one's gonna
16:27
Speaker 1: be stuck. But you can't put your money where your
16:29
Speaker 1: mouth is unless you bet them to win Rookie of
16:31
Speaker 1: the Year, which in case it's another zero or some games.
16:33
Speaker 1: So I love the concept of them, and then when
16:36
Speaker 1: I got into the logistics of it, that's kind of
16:38
Speaker 1: where my love for it fell off and why top
16:41
Speaker 1: chat replaced it. So I have a bunch of cards
16:43
Speaker 1: right here next to me, and like eighty cards right
16:48
Speaker 1: but I can't sell them individually eBay fees, eBay shipping.
16:51
Speaker 1: I gotta pack them up, I gotta go send them out,
16:54
Speaker 1: I gotta receive do all that stuff. So you can't
16:57
Speaker 1: really trade them. You can only trade them at scale.
17:00
Speaker 1: When top shot came along and I was like, I
17:02
Speaker 1: can I mean, the liquidity, the instant gratification of it all,
17:06
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me. And there's the immediate hurdle
17:09
Speaker 1: of digital ownership. If you can't get over that, then
17:12
Speaker 1: you're never gonna get top Shot. You're not gonna get
17:14
Speaker 1: n F T S. I've been shocked at the amount
17:17
Speaker 1: of people have gotten digital ownership like that. The players
17:19
Speaker 1: get it instantly. Even the older generation, a lot of
17:23
Speaker 1: people are getting instantly. So that's that's a hurdle that
17:25
Speaker 1: has to be you have to overtake, like why can't
17:28
Speaker 1: I just record it on YouTube? Like I get why
17:31
Speaker 1: people say that, But once you figure that out, it's
17:33
Speaker 1: pretty simple. So I hopped in the top shot. I
17:37
Speaker 1: once I finally got it, I really got it, and
17:39
Speaker 1: I was like, this is the future, this is you know,
17:42
Speaker 1: and stuff started to go up. The community was great,
17:45
Speaker 1: and then it got to the point where, um, I
17:48
Speaker 1: was like, this feels like it could hit levels that
17:52
Speaker 1: you know are not there yet. Because their partnered with
17:55
Speaker 1: the n b A, I think the players are going
17:57
Speaker 1: to be into it. They built the model really smart
18:00
Speaker 1: and who better to own than Lebron James. So at
18:03
Speaker 1: the time, I think the biggest sale was thirty five
18:06
Speaker 1: for d k UM. We picked a moment that we
18:09
Speaker 1: thought was the best moment on the platform, which is
18:12
Speaker 1: these moments they're like Lebron has his rookie or has
18:17
Speaker 1: his first moment, which is kind of his rookie card
18:19
Speaker 1: of the platform. It's just a random dunk against the Kings.
18:23
Speaker 1: This other moment from series one is a dunk that's
18:26
Speaker 1: a tribute to Kobe Bryant. So it felt like that's
18:29
Speaker 1: the thing with these cards, Like Lebron's rookie card is
18:33
Speaker 1: just an image of him shooting a fadeaway jumper. It's
18:36
Speaker 1: not actually special. So when people are like, oh, that
18:38
Speaker 1: Lebron duck against the Kings is in a famous play
18:42
Speaker 1: from him, correct, but neither is his rookie card. But
18:44
Speaker 1: I do think you get the added bonus of if
18:47
Speaker 1: you can find the player's first moment and it's a
18:50
Speaker 1: special moment, you kind of got a double there. So
18:53
Speaker 1: we bought the number twenty three serial which matches this jersey,
18:57
Speaker 1: and uh, I genuinely believe if that we wouldn't sell it.
19:01
Speaker 1: I I invested with a bunch of a bunch of
19:04
Speaker 1: friends who got in it for less than a million
19:06
Speaker 1: dollars to Lebron James, Like, I think it's worth more
19:09
Speaker 1: than that already today. But the goal was to sell
19:12
Speaker 1: it to Lebron and it'd be like a cool thing
19:16
Speaker 1: and uh some and I want to let you jump
19:18
Speaker 1: in in case you have a question, but how much
19:20
Speaker 1: did you pay for you? You you paid fifty How
19:26
Speaker 1: how many top shots had you bought at that point
19:31
Speaker 1: and how much how much did you paid for them
19:34
Speaker 1: in total or individually, like what was yours. It's a
19:37
Speaker 1: good question. The tracking of it, because it's digital should
19:40
Speaker 1: be easier, but it's not because some stuff was all
19:43
Speaker 1: in packs and you were just paying nine bucks, fourteen bucks,
19:46
Speaker 1: thirty bucks for packs um. At that point, I forget
19:50
Speaker 1: if I had put more. I went on a little
19:53
Speaker 1: spending spree. I think actually after like I was more convicted.
19:57
Speaker 1: I had more conviction after we made that buy, but
20:00
Speaker 1: previous to it, I would say I put in ten
20:03
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand dollars to it, and it just it just
20:07
Speaker 1: really clicked. And then I was willing to this. I
20:11
Speaker 1: took my bitcoin money. I had made some money off
20:13
Speaker 1: a bitcoin, and I was like, I'm willing to sell
20:16
Speaker 1: a bitcoin to get this moment. And I told my
20:19
Speaker 1: friends about it, went on a couple of calls with them,
20:21
Speaker 1: Like I would have bought it by myself, but I
20:23
Speaker 1: thought would be fun to include other people. So we
20:26
Speaker 1: got other people and spend a little more. But I'm
20:29
Speaker 1: probably in for the same amount I am on physical
20:32
Speaker 1: cards um, but one is returned significantly more. Up to
20:36
Speaker 1: this date, I haven't sold anything so everyone checks my
20:40
Speaker 1: profile and they're like, oh, you made so much money. No,
20:44
Speaker 1: not really, I haven't made any money to this point.
20:48
Speaker 1: Uh so Jack, how old are you? Man? I'm twenty four. God, dude,
20:52
Speaker 1: everyone hates you right now. You're just living the dream. Bro,
20:55
Speaker 1: twenty four years old? Good for you, man. Um, yeah,
20:58
Speaker 1: dude to Basically, I'd knew nothing about it. So Peter
21:01
Speaker 1: Jennings I think he he posted about it. Um it
21:06
Speaker 1: might have been January and I bought like because it
21:09
Speaker 1: was different then, dude, Like I, I would go on
21:11
Speaker 1: and it was easy to buy packs, honestly, Like I
21:15
Speaker 1: tried to go along. We did a show last week
21:16
Speaker 1: and I couldn't. I got so frustrated after an hour.
21:18
Speaker 1: I was like, alrd, I'm out. This is insane right now.
21:21
Speaker 1: But basically, say I have five packs, and I have
21:24
Speaker 1: like a couple of good cards. I have like a
21:26
Speaker 1: trade young card. Uh, I have some good ones. What's what? What?
21:31
Speaker 1: What's the deal? Like you're viewing it right now? Like
21:34
Speaker 1: is someone uh that's obviously you're in it for the
21:36
Speaker 1: long term, someone like me? Should I be selling these
21:39
Speaker 1: and buying more packs off that? Like because I can't
21:42
Speaker 1: pull the money off obviously, Like I know a lot
21:43
Speaker 1: of people complain about that. I think they're just doing
21:46
Speaker 1: that so people aren't laundering money, and like they want
21:48
Speaker 1: to make sure they're checking off money illegally. I get
21:51
Speaker 1: all that. Um, I just don't know what to do
21:54
Speaker 1: because this is just insane right now, Like yeah, I
21:56
Speaker 1: just talking about what you just bought for fifty K
21:58
Speaker 1: is no joke. It probably is where right now, which
22:01
Speaker 1: is just insane because it was such a short period.
22:03
Speaker 1: Like I just wonder how you view this whole thing
22:05
Speaker 1: going forward. So I know we're gonna talk about my challenge,
22:10
Speaker 1: but um, the overarching theme is I'm so bad at
22:14
Speaker 1: time in the market, Like I got pinned as this
22:16
Speaker 1: right like like young genius boy, because I put a
22:20
Speaker 1: lot of money in and I completely missed when like
22:24
Speaker 1: nine out of ten decisions I made, I haven't sold anything,
22:27
Speaker 1: so that's been a successful decision. But I thought loading
22:30
Speaker 1: up on the studs was going to be the best
22:32
Speaker 1: way to do it. It turns out if you had
22:34
Speaker 1: just loaded up on all the one dollar, two dollar,
22:36
Speaker 1: three dollar moments at all, what I mean, they went
22:38
Speaker 1: from three to a hundred two bucks to eighty you know,
22:42
Speaker 1: so like, I'm only making two x three extra turns
22:45
Speaker 1: on some of these studs because I bought them at
22:47
Speaker 1: such a high I thought that the high priced stuff
22:49
Speaker 1: and the really scary stuff and the unique stuff would
22:52
Speaker 1: be the ones that have value. And I do believe
22:54
Speaker 1: in that long term, but in the short term I
22:57
Speaker 1: missed on that. And then in the challenge, so the
22:59
Speaker 1: challenge was I had seen the crazy return, so I
23:02
Speaker 1: was like, I had a thousand bucks in my Dapper balance.
23:04
Speaker 1: I was like, I'll try to turn into a hundred k. Jack.
23:08
Speaker 1: You just mentioned Dapper Labs. So Dapper owns top Shop,
23:12
Speaker 1: which is the company that is creating this marketplace for
23:15
Speaker 1: for NBA digital highlights. Later on in the show, Ravel
23:20
Speaker 1: did an interview with Rohan Gary Goeslou, who was the
23:24
Speaker 1: CEO of Dapper Labs. So, and a lot of the
23:27
Speaker 1: stuff that we've mentioned and sort of dropped here, which
23:31
Speaker 1: might be hard for people who are hearing about this
23:33
Speaker 1: for the first time to really understand, is not being
23:37
Speaker 1: able to get your money out, frustration with the platform,
23:41
Speaker 1: frustration with with depositing money, frustration with being able to
23:45
Speaker 1: buy packs, all those things. Darren like goes pretty deep
23:48
Speaker 1: with with Rohan about these things. It's really fascinating interview. Um.
23:53
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I wanted Jack to come
23:57
Speaker 1: on is because you mentioned and Simon you mentioned Peter Jennings.
24:00
Speaker 1: Just so people know, Peter Jennings is one of the
24:03
Speaker 1: co founders of Action. He founded Fantasy Labs. Action was
24:06
Speaker 1: formed partially by buying Fantasy Labs and two other companies,
24:10
Speaker 1: and so Peter is one of the founders. He was
24:12
Speaker 1: early in on top Shot and Jack, you mentioned someone
24:16
Speaker 1: had spent thirty five thirty six grand that included Peter
24:19
Speaker 1: Jennings and Jonathan Bales, who are two of the co
24:21
Speaker 1: founders of Action. So, UM, just a little context for
24:25
Speaker 1: for some of this conversation about this incredibly hot speculative,
24:30
Speaker 1: high risk market. You're trying to turn a thousand dollars
24:34
Speaker 1: into a hundred thousand dollars. How are you going to
24:37
Speaker 1: do it? So my first buy was the zach Lavine
24:40
Speaker 1: metallic Gold, and I liked the moment. It's one of
24:44
Speaker 1: the best plays of his career, and he was I
24:47
Speaker 1: was trying to do it quickly. So his next three
24:49
Speaker 1: games were in prime time. He played LaMelo Lebron Celtics,
24:53
Speaker 1: so It's sold within twine four hours for bucks, so
24:56
Speaker 1: I'm like, nicecent return right in twin four hours. Pretty
25:00
Speaker 1: much anyone I know would have taken that before before
25:04
Speaker 1: this year, right, So I turned that twelve hundred into
25:07
Speaker 1: beal and that's the first time that we had seen
25:10
Speaker 1: a market correction. So for three weeks it did not sell.
25:13
Speaker 1: Everything was down ten um. I held everything throughout and
25:19
Speaker 1: then three weeks later I end up checking and it's
25:21
Speaker 1: old for sixteen hundreds. So after the fee, I bought
25:25
Speaker 1: a Luca don Chech Cool Cats. So one of the
25:27
Speaker 1: really cool parts about top Shot is the gamification of it.
25:31
Speaker 1: So once again, a lot of people grew up collecting
25:34
Speaker 1: sets of baseball cards, football cards, basketball cards, teams who
25:38
Speaker 1: were try and get all the players on the team
25:39
Speaker 1: from a specific gear. But because it's physical, you can't
25:43
Speaker 1: really redeem or reward anything. That's the thing about digital.
25:46
Speaker 1: You can actually add in extra moments on top and
25:49
Speaker 1: you can build these sets. They do it in video
25:51
Speaker 1: games all the time. Top Shots taken advantage. So I
25:54
Speaker 1: knew that cool Cat packs were dropping, Cool Cat Master
25:58
Speaker 1: Challenge of Lamello, all the hottest rookie on the site
26:01
Speaker 1: was coming so, and you had to hold the Luca
26:04
Speaker 1: too to get that. So I pay fIF four uh.
26:08
Speaker 1: In twelve hours it was up to two grand and
26:11
Speaker 1: I was like, I am about to get on a flight.
26:13
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just gonna lock this in once again.
26:16
Speaker 1: Thirty three percent profit in twelve hours. Um. So those
26:21
Speaker 1: are the first three moves of the challenge. The zach
26:25
Speaker 1: lavine is up to nine thousand dollars that I sent
26:27
Speaker 1: for twelve hundred, The bill is at fifty hundred, and
26:31
Speaker 1: the Luca was up over nine k UH yesterday. I
26:36
Speaker 1: am currently after a couple more trades. I gotta Jeremy Grant.
26:40
Speaker 1: Grant turned into Ingram. I'm sitting there at about thirty
26:43
Speaker 1: three hundred dollars. So my point to Simon was that
26:46
Speaker 1: I am really bad at time in the market. Um.
26:51
Speaker 1: So I think that you know, diversifying holding the studs. Uh.
26:55
Speaker 1: If you're a believer. I'm a big believer in the platform,
26:58
Speaker 1: then that's kind of the way to do it. And
27:01
Speaker 1: everything has truthfully been going up, which is dangerous and unsustainable.
27:05
Speaker 1: But um, trying to time, it's just I've admitted, like
27:08
Speaker 1: I can't do it at this point, right, Yeah, Like
27:12
Speaker 1: like I've only I'm only like a hundred twenty dollars in,
27:14
Speaker 1: Like I bought really good tacks and I got good
27:16
Speaker 1: players from it. But yeah, dude, like it's insane to
27:18
Speaker 1: think that I turned a hundred dollar investment into tender
27:21
Speaker 1: Grand in a month and a half thanks to Peter Jennings.
27:24
Speaker 1: But like, I don't know, it's just it's it's one
27:27
Speaker 1: of those where literally the only reason I did it
27:29
Speaker 1: was because exactly what you said. I said, you know what,
27:32
Speaker 1: this could have legs. But like what I said the
27:34
Speaker 1: last week to Darren, the reason I put more money
27:37
Speaker 1: in is I don't really get the language of the
27:40
Speaker 1: contract they had with the n b A. Like my
27:42
Speaker 1: whole way is next week we'll see they sign a
27:45
Speaker 1: deal with a company that's doing vintage cards, and like
27:48
Speaker 1: I have to start getting in all that and like
27:50
Speaker 1: we'll just keep spiraling with they'll be more because right
27:52
Speaker 1: now they have the whole market. It's one of these
27:55
Speaker 1: rare instances where they have a whole market and the
27:57
Speaker 1: people who want to spend money, Like we're seeing it
28:00
Speaker 1: now that people don't care what prices you're putting up there.
28:02
Speaker 1: If they want it, they're going to spend the money
28:04
Speaker 1: so that the markets dictated by the customer. So that's
28:06
Speaker 1: why it's interesting that you're talking what you're trying to
28:08
Speaker 1: build up from a thousand to a hundred thousand. You've
28:10
Speaker 1: had a couple of misses, but at the same time
28:12
Speaker 1: you have like you've you've turned that money into three
28:15
Speaker 1: kN and whatever. It's been a couple of weeks, so
28:17
Speaker 1: it's pretty I'll touch on that because that was super
28:20
Speaker 1: important for me as well, which is like, what's the
28:23
Speaker 1: value of this n f T the second they lose
28:25
Speaker 1: a partnership with the n b A And that's kind
28:28
Speaker 1: of the beauty of the whole thing and the genius
28:30
Speaker 1: behind it that they figured out. Um, there's no official
28:33
Speaker 1: number on record, but the belief is so any sale
28:36
Speaker 1: in the marketplace you get five percent, right, and Panini
28:39
Speaker 1: who gets uh they license from the NBA. Now with
28:43
Speaker 1: the sports car boom, you don't think the NBA is
28:45
Speaker 1: gonna come to Pannini and ask for way more money nowadays, right,
28:50
Speaker 1: And they're not right. They're not going to be able
28:52
Speaker 1: to say they have no leverage in that situation, whereas
28:54
Speaker 1: with DApp or the five percent fee is allegedly cut
28:58
Speaker 1: in half. It's definitely split. It's been confirmed it's split.
29:01
Speaker 1: But let's just say for sake of the argument, you've
29:04
Speaker 1: got a two and a half percent goes to Dapper
29:06
Speaker 1: to an alf percent goes to the NBA. Once again,
29:08
Speaker 1: the cut that would then go to the NBA as profits,
29:11
Speaker 1: it's not just revenue, it's profits. They don't have to
29:13
Speaker 1: do anything. They've licensed it right. So on a fifty
29:16
Speaker 1: million dollar day, which they pretty much did yesterday got
29:19
Speaker 1: up to mill um, they're taking home about uh seven
29:25
Speaker 1: hundred fifty thousand dollars or something ridiculous. And over three
29:29
Speaker 1: over a year, if they did that daily, if it
29:31
Speaker 1: didn't even continue to grow, obviously the off season will
29:34
Speaker 1: have drops, the finals and playoffs will have ups. Let's
29:38
Speaker 1: say at averages to fifty million dollars in transaction. Today,
29:41
Speaker 1: the NBA is taking home like three, like two hundred
29:45
Speaker 1: fifty three hundred fifty million dollars in profits a year.
29:49
Speaker 1: So they were a couple of years ago they wanted
29:51
Speaker 1: new revenue streams, so they take on sports betting partners
29:54
Speaker 1: and they're integrating that. The Caesar's or MGM deal was
29:57
Speaker 1: three years for million are now gonna have ten x
30:01
Speaker 1: in profits. Uh, it's more friendly for the NBA to
30:04
Speaker 1: talk about because it's not gambling play. It's about positive
30:08
Speaker 1: player performance instead of potentially some negative some positive. So
30:12
Speaker 1: you've now like fully incentivized the NBA too essentially print money,
30:17
Speaker 1: and that to me is like they're not giving that
30:19
Speaker 1: up for anything. There's no reason to split market share
30:23
Speaker 1: and to renegotiate on that um. And then on top
30:26
Speaker 1: of that, I think what they're going to do, they're
30:29
Speaker 1: gonna incentivize the players. So you take that five percent fee,
30:32
Speaker 1: you cut it up, you go two point to two
30:35
Speaker 1: point two and point one percent on every transaction and
30:38
Speaker 1: give that to the players. So now Lebron James is
30:41
Speaker 1: talking about his moments promoting top Shot and every transaction
30:45
Speaker 1: on a Lebron moment, he's getting a small cut off
30:48
Speaker 1: and he's now monetizing himself and it fully incentivizes the player.
30:52
Speaker 1: So you've just got this rocket ship of everyone is
30:54
Speaker 1: in it for the for the same reason and it's
30:57
Speaker 1: just gonna be printing money you can integrate to the
31:00
Speaker 1: games you get. Like that's another thing, is the market cap? Right,
31:04
Speaker 1: we we draw comparisons to physical carrds, So you have
31:07
Speaker 1: five five point five billion in physical cards, But then
31:11
Speaker 1: you can look at sports betting. You've got two twenty
31:13
Speaker 1: billion in sports betting. But we can also touch v
31:16
Speaker 1: R a R video games, differentiation of a stock market.
31:21
Speaker 1: Like there's just so many different possibilities and utility with this,
31:26
Speaker 1: and the NBA is fully incentivized to push it over
31:29
Speaker 1: virtually everything else. But but you just said what I'm like,
31:32
Speaker 1: what I mean is that they're they're getting five percent
31:35
Speaker 1: from this company. It's it's we live in a world
31:38
Speaker 1: where it's never going to be a monopoly. There's never
31:40
Speaker 1: just gonna be one company that does at all, Like
31:41
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be competitor. So that's what I'm like
31:44
Speaker 1: waiting on to make some movement, Like if I hear
31:46
Speaker 1: about a competitor coming, that's what I'm going to sell
31:48
Speaker 1: most of my stuff because I want more because like
31:50
Speaker 1: we just talked about the websites and crashing, they're they're understaff.
31:53
Speaker 1: It's not their fault. They didn't know it's going to
31:54
Speaker 1: be like this earlier data exactly, and it's it's just
31:59
Speaker 1: one of those where it's like I'm like, I'm trying
32:02
Speaker 1: to tell people like I have friends reached out to
32:04
Speaker 1: me they want to get in on it. I said,
32:06
Speaker 1: don't like, because they're stressing they're not getting packs because
32:08
Speaker 1: they keep missing out, or like they get timed out
32:11
Speaker 1: or whatever the site won't open and whatever is going on.
32:13
Speaker 1: And that's my whole point, like you just said, is
32:15
Speaker 1: the NBA is gonna want more revenue streams. They're gonna
32:17
Speaker 1: want another flag percent from a different company. So that's why,
32:20
Speaker 1: like I'm getting in on it. But I wouldn't like
32:22
Speaker 1: people are freaking out and missing missing out these packs
32:24
Speaker 1: and everything like that. I just think that, like you're
32:26
Speaker 1: talking right now, the long term of this, that's the
32:29
Speaker 1: interesting thing to watch because things are gonna start popping
32:31
Speaker 1: up here. Simon. You mentioned people freaking out. I'm freaking out, Okay.
32:38
Speaker 1: I have tried to buy I have tried to get
32:40
Speaker 1: into this market a few different times. And by the way,
32:43
Speaker 1: I tried getting in with zach Lavine. I wanted zach
32:45
Speaker 1: Levine dunk that about two weeks ago. I think it
32:48
Speaker 1: was going for a hundred and fifty bucks. I decided
32:51
Speaker 1: the time, like what, I don't even know what I'm
32:53
Speaker 1: buying here, Like I didn't know enough. I hadn't researched it,
32:56
Speaker 1: and like I didn't hadn't spend time with the marketplace
32:59
Speaker 1: at all. And there's a couple of things. One I've
33:02
Speaker 1: discovered that I actually like the digital highlights better than
33:07
Speaker 1: the physical card. I can watched him over and over again,
33:10
Speaker 1: like to me, I watched highlights. I see different things.
33:12
Speaker 1: I love it in slow motion. I think the way
33:14
Speaker 1: they package it really well. I like sort of that feeling.
33:18
Speaker 1: But then I went back and it was going for
33:21
Speaker 1: three seven, and it was going for Jack. You mentioned
33:25
Speaker 1: it like there was a run where he had he
33:27
Speaker 1: was playing like in prime time games. It was three
33:30
Speaker 1: seven the night of that Celtics game. I tried to
33:32
Speaker 1: buy it in the middle of that game. He was
33:33
Speaker 1: going for I think forty, and the marketplace was down.
33:37
Speaker 1: It was so frustrating, and I knew by the time
33:40
Speaker 1: I woke up, it will come back up at the
33:42
Speaker 1: marketplace and the car would be gone. Sure enough, I
33:44
Speaker 1: tried to get in the morning. It's already selling for
33:46
Speaker 1: six hundred. And then I tried to buy a thirty's
33:48
Speaker 1: Young Dung for four hundred. The payment didn't process. It
33:52
Speaker 1: didn't process. I tried again. It was now selling for
33:55
Speaker 1: six hundred. It's been very frustrating as a consumer, it
34:00
Speaker 1: has been, And um, I think it's funny because I
34:03
Speaker 1: was earlier and I've actually been put through they call
34:07
Speaker 1: them stress tests because the site was crashing so much. Uh,
34:11
Speaker 1: there's so many issues. There are still so many issues
34:14
Speaker 1: with the site. But once again, there's two sides to
34:17
Speaker 1: every coin, right, Like it's it's an extremely frustrating experience.
34:21
Speaker 1: And then I always say and look at the demand, right, Like,
34:24
Speaker 1: if anyone comes with that experience products out of a hundred,
34:29
Speaker 1: they're never coming back. I mean, imagine every time someone
34:32
Speaker 1: came to Action Network's website if it was down, you
34:36
Speaker 1: would never have people returning. They would go somewhere else
34:39
Speaker 1: with top shot that demands. You're so insane, it's insane.
34:42
Speaker 1: So uh right now, dude, get me into the market.
34:47
Speaker 1: Help me figure out what I'm buying? Like what am
34:49
Speaker 1: I looking for? How do I define value? All those things?
34:53
Speaker 1: The marketplace is up right now, it's it's functioning, Like
34:57
Speaker 1: what am I buying here? You already told you simple.
35:00
Speaker 1: You're just looking for the players that are gonna have
35:03
Speaker 1: like if you're trying to buy and sell, Like he's doing.
35:05
Speaker 1: You're just looking for matchups and like scheduling, so you're
35:08
Speaker 1: looking at what players of upcoming primetime games, all these
35:11
Speaker 1: different things. Like like his whole point, if you're into this,
35:14
Speaker 1: you can make good money right now doing this, if
35:16
Speaker 1: you're able to read the market right because like you said,
35:19
Speaker 1: if you know when to hold and when to sell,
35:21
Speaker 1: this is like crazy how much money you're able to
35:23
Speaker 1: make a short amount of time. So I'm definitely with
35:26
Speaker 1: him on this that it's it's one of those where
35:28
Speaker 1: it's like I have a couple of superstars. I'm in
35:30
Speaker 1: no rush to sell it. I'm just gonna hold it
35:32
Speaker 1: and let the market dictate itself, because it seems like
35:35
Speaker 1: the longer you hold, the more these things keep going up.
35:37
Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect for what Simon did
35:39
Speaker 1: because even if you don't get it or you don't
35:42
Speaker 1: think maybe long term, everyone who was saying it's a bubble,
35:46
Speaker 1: it's a pumping dump, Okay, So why wouldn't you just
35:48
Speaker 1: get in the pump if that's what you think, and
35:50
Speaker 1: then just make money? Like people are funny, So, um,
35:54
Speaker 1: what are we looking at? H to Simon's point to
35:57
Speaker 1: Chad's question, today the All Star reserves come out. So
36:01
Speaker 1: I've been kind of tweeting about how I think that's
36:03
Speaker 1: gonna have a nice price movement on some players. So
36:07
Speaker 1: if you're sharp, and I think you can use the
36:09
Speaker 1: betting nods to actually influence you in these decisions. What
36:13
Speaker 1: are Who's a player that maybe the market doesn't think
36:16
Speaker 1: it's going to get that All Star nod? It gets
36:18
Speaker 1: announced the national TV tonight and then you kind of
36:21
Speaker 1: see them. People are like, oh, Ship, he's a really
36:23
Speaker 1: good player. And then you go and then his prices
36:26
Speaker 1: ten higher. I don't know, you tell me this thing
36:31
Speaker 1: is not coming out until later. So like if we
36:33
Speaker 1: could look like Genuss, but I could buy it right now?
36:36
Speaker 1: What is? So? What's your price range? So I'll give
36:39
Speaker 1: people a good example of how I normally do this.
36:42
Speaker 1: So people are always like, what do I buy? So
36:44
Speaker 1: first of all, you need to give me a price range.
36:45
Speaker 1: So I take that price range. I go to the marketplace. Uh,
36:49
Speaker 1: there's a tab that says price lowest ask, So I
36:51
Speaker 1: typed that in and then I sort by lowest ask descending.
36:55
Speaker 1: So that's gonna give you the top moments at that price.
36:59
Speaker 1: So give me a price range, and I'll rattle off
37:02
Speaker 1: some some moments and we'll talk through them. I have
37:05
Speaker 1: UM six hundred dollars in my account right now, so
37:10
Speaker 1: I would happily spend that on one or I would
37:13
Speaker 1: split it up. Let's say I would do two for okay,
37:16
Speaker 1: all right, well let's start it. I mean, I have
37:19
Speaker 1: said admittedly that I think UM the best strategy has
37:23
Speaker 1: been having multiple moments. I personally try and get as
37:27
Speaker 1: many singular moments. You'll see in like a bunch of
37:29
Speaker 1: the top accounts they have thousands. I only have a
37:32
Speaker 1: little under three hundred. So a couple that that stand
37:35
Speaker 1: out to me. Um sa bonus, you can get his
37:39
Speaker 1: first moment for six hundred bucks right now. I think
37:43
Speaker 1: he could and will squeeze into the All Star reserves today,
37:47
Speaker 1: but it is it's not clear this time. There's four
37:50
Speaker 1: thousand of those that were ever minted. It's his first
37:54
Speaker 1: moment um, so that one's listed. Another another player that
37:59
Speaker 1: I think is pretty interesting that six hundred is Draymond Um.
38:03
Speaker 1: There's a lot of players out there right now that
38:05
Speaker 1: are their careers had it in the wrong direction, and
38:08
Speaker 1: I like to talk about them as if they actually
38:10
Speaker 1: retired tomorrow with their value increase, Like if Zion retired tomorrow,
38:16
Speaker 1: his value would obviously drop off a cliff, but if
38:19
Speaker 1: Chris Paul retired, his value would actually go up. If
38:21
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook retired, his value would actually go up. So
38:24
Speaker 1: while his plays descending his career as a whole. So
38:27
Speaker 1: Draymond is another one of those where I just think
38:29
Speaker 1: he's got multiple rings. Everyone knows how great he is,
38:32
Speaker 1: and that one there's only fifteen hundred of so he's
38:35
Speaker 1: an interesting one. So I'll check you out right now.
38:38
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And he only has three moments on the
38:40
Speaker 1: platform and only fifteen hundred in series one, So that's
38:44
Speaker 1: actually a really intriguing one because it's first of the
38:47
Speaker 1: first um other other potential moments. You've got a de
38:51
Speaker 1: Rosan zoobots mellow is right there, another perfect example of
38:57
Speaker 1: a player who if he retired tomorrow, would would probably
39:00
Speaker 1: ably tick up. People love Carmelo and then you kind
39:02
Speaker 1: of count and then the other players in that territory
39:05
Speaker 1: are like Zion series to fifteen thousand of them. So
39:09
Speaker 1: would you rather own a Series one, which is like
39:12
Speaker 1: the rookie card of them on the platform, or would
39:14
Speaker 1: you rather own a player like Zion wears potentials through
39:17
Speaker 1: the roof. Um, you do have a good I mean
39:20
Speaker 1: not a good rookie. You have a rookie in this tier,
39:23
Speaker 1: which is Obie Topping. I'm definitely I favor him because
39:26
Speaker 1: he's a Nick. But one of the things people aren't
39:29
Speaker 1: really accounting for is they haven't even released a bunch
39:32
Speaker 1: of the new rookies that are going to come out.
39:34
Speaker 1: So Topping could play to night against the Warriors, he
39:36
Speaker 1: could score twenties at a career high and that could
39:39
Speaker 1: skyrockets a nine bucks. Or they could decide in three
39:43
Speaker 1: days they're releasing Emmanuel Quicklyi's moment and now the Knicks
39:46
Speaker 1: market is kind of split in half. So, um, those
39:50
Speaker 1: are options. Carl Anthony Towns, is there DeAndre Aiden for
39:54
Speaker 1: Zingis Kevin Durant? That's a Series two one and there's
39:58
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand those tyres Axie. So I think it's it's
40:01
Speaker 1: up to you whether you want to go the strategy
40:04
Speaker 1: of a major potential play on a Zion or a
40:06
Speaker 1: top in or get one of those guys who's you know,
40:10
Speaker 1: more solidified in the league. Simon, what do you think? Uhh,
40:17
Speaker 1: I mean I like his I like his risk and
40:19
Speaker 1: like upside play on, like you trying to get a
40:22
Speaker 1: head starting these players get into the All Star Game. Um,
40:25
Speaker 1: what I was thinking when you were talking there is, uh,
40:27
Speaker 1: what are they what are they going to start doing
40:28
Speaker 1: other sports like MLB, NFL like his his top shop?
40:33
Speaker 1: Are they Are they getting in on that whole thing? Yeah,
40:36
Speaker 1: So Dapper is ink to deal with the UFC, which
40:39
Speaker 1: will be a pretty interesting one because it's not team centric,
40:42
Speaker 1: it's strictly player centric. That one's been announced. The rumors
40:45
Speaker 1: are that the NFL has actually made significant process progress
40:49
Speaker 1: with Dapper. Um that one has not been publicly announced
40:53
Speaker 1: or is. I do not have confirmation of it, but
40:56
Speaker 1: them and the MLB. What's interesting about the NFL being
40:59
Speaker 1: a part of it is they've always been so protective
41:02
Speaker 1: about the rights. Like NBA has been a free flowing thing.
41:05
Speaker 1: They've said, YouTubers used it social media. NFL is protect
41:08
Speaker 1: the shield. So for them to take this jump, um,
41:12
Speaker 1: I think that they're getting a little pomo on the
41:14
Speaker 1: amount of money the NBA is probably reaping in from
41:17
Speaker 1: this stuff. And it's it's a good question. Like I
41:20
Speaker 1: think what you were saying is other people are going
41:23
Speaker 1: to try and do deals with the NBA, NFL, etcetera.
41:26
Speaker 1: But does DApp or have a first mover advantage and
41:29
Speaker 1: they understand how all this stuff works. They're going through
41:32
Speaker 1: all the testing right, Like, you can only plan them
41:35
Speaker 1: for so much. So even if you're you're wondering will
41:39
Speaker 1: another company work with the league in the next couple
41:43
Speaker 1: of years, that's still twenty four months. And with the
41:45
Speaker 1: speed of all of this, it might be a safer
41:47
Speaker 1: player than maybe maybe you're perceiving. Yeah, because I love
41:51
Speaker 1: the idea of the NFL, just like the fact that
41:53
Speaker 1: you could have hits and like touchdowns and everything like that.
41:56
Speaker 1: Like that's gonna be a really big seller for them,
41:58
Speaker 1: especially in the younger kids. Absolutely, I think I'm I
42:02
Speaker 1: would like to buy it right now, but I can't
42:04
Speaker 1: because they're not allowing transactions. I can look at that,
42:07
Speaker 1: but I can't transact anything. Yeah. Really, I'm on here
42:09
Speaker 1: right now. Let me Yeah, now, it's it's lockdown right now. Yeah.
42:14
Speaker 1: They they're prepping the rumors of that, they're prepping for
42:18
Speaker 1: All Star weekend, so they're trying to get as much
42:20
Speaker 1: stuff and then the All Star Reserve stuff they expect.
42:24
Speaker 1: My guess is that Um, I don't know if you
42:27
Speaker 1: watch NBA on T n T, but Adam left Co
42:29
Speaker 1: is the host. Adam left Co has gone on Clubhouse before.
42:32
Speaker 1: He said that. D Wade Shack Candice Parker well aware
42:35
Speaker 1: of Top Shot. That was a couple of weeks ago.
42:37
Speaker 1: The thousand dollar purchase was Adam left Co was involved.
42:43
Speaker 1: So it would not shock me if tonight was some
42:46
Speaker 1: national publicity for NBA Top Shot. Um, and I think
42:51
Speaker 1: they may be preparing for that. That would be my guess. Alright,
42:55
Speaker 1: so I gotta get some bonus sometime between now and
42:57
Speaker 1: NBA on T n T tonight. I basically can't do
43:00
Speaker 1: anything else for the next seven hours. I think that
43:03
Speaker 1: it'll be up before that. That would be my guess.
43:06
Speaker 1: It would be a huge miss for them if it wasn't. UM,
43:10
Speaker 1: So I think you'll be good to go. They're using
43:12
Speaker 1: these couple hours to kind of fix up the site,
43:15
Speaker 1: get it ready. UM, but I think you'll be able
43:17
Speaker 1: to go. Sabonus, I think that'll be a fun one
43:19
Speaker 1: to look at. Let me look at his price action.
43:22
Speaker 1: We are in the middle of a tiny dip, so
43:24
Speaker 1: that's good because Sabonus uh three three in the morning
43:29
Speaker 1: was selling for seven bucks. So you've got a little
43:33
Speaker 1: fifteen percent tip that you're buying into right now. You're
43:36
Speaker 1: you're look, you're talking about the dunk the common from
43:39
Speaker 1: the base set right now. It's a the serial number
43:45
Speaker 1: thirty nine. That's correct. And if you actually what's funny
43:48
Speaker 1: about this is we didn't even look at the moment
43:51
Speaker 1: itself right before I even decided, Yeah, we looked at
43:55
Speaker 1: the player. But if you go click the moment, it's
43:57
Speaker 1: actually a poster or dunk. It's it's probably some honus
44:00
Speaker 1: this best play of this. Now all of a sudden,
44:03
Speaker 1: I have to buy it. If I buy it, I
44:05
Speaker 1: am going to be so upset. And that's how that's
44:08
Speaker 1: how that that's how this thing is winning. Like that's
44:11
Speaker 1: how they're getting peop because people are seeing a number.
44:13
Speaker 1: They're saying, oh, it's so much. But like someone like me,
44:16
Speaker 1: especially like I have bitcoin two dude, and like I
44:18
Speaker 1: don't mind moving bitcoin because I know I always can
44:20
Speaker 1: buy more, like I live for by the dip. Like
44:23
Speaker 1: that's like literally been my life mode for like three
44:25
Speaker 1: years now. But it's one of these things where that's
44:28
Speaker 1: why I like, like this whole platform is I'm buying
44:30
Speaker 1: it with crypto, Like I like that, I'm buying some
44:33
Speaker 1: of the crypto that's also crypto, and it's like like
44:36
Speaker 1: you're talking about the younger generation. These are things we like.
44:39
Speaker 1: We like, um, we like the crypto movement. If people
44:42
Speaker 1: that have crypto like spending all other things that are crypto.
44:44
Speaker 1: So that's why I like. Again, I do like the
44:46
Speaker 1: legs that this company has. And Chad one of one
44:50
Speaker 1: thing you'll love because you're a little older than me.
44:53
Speaker 1: Um first been I always have to get that in there.
44:58
Speaker 1: There's been uh co firmed reports that they're going to
45:02
Speaker 1: um you were talking about Simon the vintage stuff. So
45:05
Speaker 1: they only have one set that has ever been vintage
45:08
Speaker 1: plays it's called the Running Back Set. But they've actually
45:10
Speaker 1: said they're going to release stuff in black and white
45:13
Speaker 1: from like George Mike in and and Crazy Ship like that. Um,
45:16
Speaker 1: so you'll have the black and white to now untill
45:19
Speaker 1: I saw someone talking about like in ten years when
45:21
Speaker 1: every NBA game shot in eight K. Well, the four
45:24
Speaker 1: K that we're looking at the Lebron now look like
45:28
Speaker 1: like men kind of vintage kind of like you know,
45:31
Speaker 1: the appeal to the Mickey Mano or the Jordan is
45:35
Speaker 1: that it's existed for a long time. You can't mess
45:37
Speaker 1: these things up there digital. But if the quality is lower,
45:40
Speaker 1: could that actually add value to it? Just just crazy?
45:44
Speaker 1: All right? Settlement Top Shot investor, extraordinary influencer, extraordinary snap
45:52
Speaker 1: back sports former Action Network genius who turns back on us,
45:58
Speaker 1: But that doesn't matter because you know we love them anyways,
46:01
Speaker 1: great stuff. I'm super excited to see what happens. I
46:03
Speaker 1: want to get my Demontes Sabonis and if it doesn't
46:06
Speaker 1: go up, I'm gonna send you a bill. And that's
46:08
Speaker 1: totally cool because you can afford it because you've flourished
46:11
Speaker 1: since you left us at Action Network in your first job,
46:13
Speaker 1: and we were the ones who gave you your first chance. Um,
46:18
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the podcast. We want
46:20
Speaker 1: everyone to stick around because, uh, like I said, Rivell
46:23
Speaker 1: has an interview with Rohan Gara Goslu, who is the
46:26
Speaker 1: CEO of Dapper Labs with Jones top Shot. So much
46:30
Speaker 1: cool stuff there. Listen to this interview right now, alright,
46:33
Speaker 1: and joining us now is Rohem Garra Goeslu, who's the
46:36
Speaker 1: CEO of Dapper Labs, the parent company of NBA. Top
46:41
Speaker 1: Shot Roehem, how are you? Um? They're awesome, Thank you
46:45
Speaker 1: for having me. The last time we talked, your company
46:48
Speaker 1: had done like maybe like twenty million total, and now
46:52
Speaker 1: you're you've done sixty three million in the last thirty days.
46:57
Speaker 1: What happened? I mean, you know, we had we had
46:59
Speaker 1: a couple of awesome groups of folks find us. I mean,
47:01
Speaker 1: we're still super Early is still about fifty thousand users
47:04
Speaker 1: or so, and we've turned off all the marketing while
47:06
Speaker 1: our service under the control under control. But you know,
47:09
Speaker 1: I think I think a good few thousand of those
47:11
Speaker 1: fifty thousand came from you, so so we appreciate it.
47:14
Speaker 1: I think some some people also came from the marketplace
47:17
Speaker 1: and the realization that first a thirty five thousand dollar
47:21
Speaker 1: highlight than a forty seven thousand five highlight and then
47:24
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand Why did this happen like this? Obviously
47:28
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of heat around the market crypto memorabilia.
47:34
Speaker 1: Is this all part of one world? It's related in
47:38
Speaker 1: some ways, But I think top Shot is is a
47:40
Speaker 1: breed apart because we're not trying to do a sort
47:42
Speaker 1: of big speculative thing. We're trying to build something for
47:45
Speaker 1: the long term. And and you know those big headline numbers,
47:48
Speaker 1: get the get get the headlines. But majority of top
47:51
Speaker 1: Shot transactions and I think half of the dollars are
47:55
Speaker 1: in in transactions less than fifty bucks. And that's what
47:58
Speaker 1: makes top Shot special because is it brings the best
48:01
Speaker 1: parts of trading cards, hoping facts, trading with your friends,
48:03
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, but no friction. Right, you can
48:05
Speaker 1: sell something that's worth a dollar for a dollar you
48:08
Speaker 1: you you pay five cents and fees um and that's it,
48:11
Speaker 1: rather than having to you know, figure out posting and
48:14
Speaker 1: rating agencies and and all these sorts of things. Yeah,
48:16
Speaker 1: there is a huge ramp up to figuring this out,
48:19
Speaker 1: especially if you're not in crypto. Right, you said, you
48:21
Speaker 1: tell someone, well, it's blockchain, but it's non fungible token,
48:25
Speaker 1: which means that you're you don't have to pay in crypto,
48:30
Speaker 1: you can pay in dollars. In fact, you might not
48:32
Speaker 1: notice it. What you do need to know is that
48:35
Speaker 1: it's blockchain by security, right, So that that's the key
48:40
Speaker 1: that you tell people, right, Well, I actually try not
48:43
Speaker 1: to talk about the blockchain part. I I say what
48:45
Speaker 1: you need to do to what you need to have
48:48
Speaker 1: to be good at NBA top shot is to be
48:50
Speaker 1: good at basketball. You need basketball knowledge. You need trading
48:54
Speaker 1: card knowledge. You need to know sort of what's going
48:56
Speaker 1: to be valued by collectors. You don't need to understand
48:58
Speaker 1: anything about cryptom or blockchain and in fact, you know
49:02
Speaker 1: most of our users are now coming in using only
49:04
Speaker 1: credit cards. They're not cryptocurrency users UM, and that's that's
49:07
Speaker 1: sort of what we like about it. You have to
49:09
Speaker 1: have the faith though, in the blockchain, right, because you
49:12
Speaker 1: have your own blockchain flow here, so you do have
49:15
Speaker 1: to have faith and trust that it is legit and
49:18
Speaker 1: one of forty nine is one of forty nine traceable
49:21
Speaker 1: to that person specifically, well in a sense. But the
49:25
Speaker 1: benefit is you have the transparency of the market and
49:27
Speaker 1: so you don't have to believe. You can look at
49:30
Speaker 1: at this point six months of trading history and you
49:32
Speaker 1: can see that you know, tens of thousands of other
49:34
Speaker 1: people are valuing these cards at different prices UM, and
49:37
Speaker 1: those prices make sense based on what happens in the
49:40
Speaker 1: real world. It's a dynamic market where there's clearly sort
49:44
Speaker 1: of now transparency and market history. UM. Now that transparency
49:47
Speaker 1: and market history is all because of the blockchain, because
49:50
Speaker 1: it's you know, nobody can can actually hide any of
49:52
Speaker 1: that information. But you know, there's a half a dozen
49:55
Speaker 1: websites now where you can analyze different aspects of your
49:58
Speaker 1: account and and all these things, and so people don't
50:01
Speaker 1: need to know it's on blockchain. They can just get
50:02
Speaker 1: the benefits of it. Most of our users sort of
50:05
Speaker 1: think of them as just trading cards. So you don't
50:07
Speaker 1: own the rights to the photo on the car. Do
50:09
Speaker 1: you own the card? And in this case you own
50:11
Speaker 1: the top shot? You don't. You don't own the underlying video.
50:14
Speaker 1: You know, you're still technically in beta while doing sixty
50:16
Speaker 1: three million in revenue over thirty days, So how are
50:19
Speaker 1: you How are you doing the whole kind of push
50:21
Speaker 1: pull of being in beta testing and at the same
50:25
Speaker 1: time being as mature as you've become. Um To be clear,
50:29
Speaker 1: the sixty three million is actually pure to pure trading
50:32
Speaker 1: between players. Our revenue over that period has been about
50:33
Speaker 1: ten million bucks. But you know still that the primary
50:36
Speaker 1: sales of packs, sales of packs plus the transaction fee
50:41
Speaker 1: on the marketplace, which gives the NBA kind of you know,
50:44
Speaker 1: a long tail revenue stream from sort of secondary sales,
50:47
Speaker 1: which they don't have on traditional trading cards. As long
50:50
Speaker 1: as it happens on the marketplace, they keep getting secondary
50:54
Speaker 1: sales money correct as well as the players. Yeah, absolutely,
50:57
Speaker 1: as well as the players. Yeah, because it's counted as
50:59
Speaker 1: as bad a coople related income. So on Monday, you
51:02
Speaker 1: have you're gonna put out these packs, these thirty packs
51:05
Speaker 1: are so then you push it back, Then you push
51:07
Speaker 1: it back. How patient are people? People are not patient?
51:11
Speaker 1: But you know, I get it, Like this is this
51:12
Speaker 1: is people's money. We we respect that. And it's not
51:15
Speaker 1: just their money, it's their fandom. Like people are emotional
51:17
Speaker 1: about their sport. They're emotional about you know, they're they're
51:20
Speaker 1: the things are passionate about. So so I totally get it.
51:22
Speaker 1: I mean, we're doing our best in terms of messaging
51:25
Speaker 1: and saying hey we are Invada. These kinds of problems happen.
51:28
Speaker 1: When problems happen, we try to make it up to folks.
51:30
Speaker 1: We air dropped a gift pack to every user that
51:33
Speaker 1: that had had been active on the marketplace and had
51:36
Speaker 1: moments in their accounts. So we're and because we're not
51:39
Speaker 1: out of VATA, we're gonna keep doing things like that.
51:41
Speaker 1: So I'm very confident people are going to be happy
51:44
Speaker 1: when sort of all all said and done. But emotions
51:46
Speaker 1: run high, um, and we're just trying to do our
51:49
Speaker 1: best to be empathetic and um at my level, to
51:51
Speaker 1: also support my team because you know, are the team
51:54
Speaker 1: is the most important thing to us. And uh, you know,
51:57
Speaker 1: it's a lot of pressure to deal with. But I
51:58
Speaker 1: think you know, we totally get it, Like it's it's
52:00
Speaker 1: important to people. Were in it for the long haul
52:02
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get people's trust and then we're gonna
52:05
Speaker 1: keep it. But I gotta say, like the other part is,
52:07
Speaker 1: you know, we're overwhelmed on support. We've ten x to
52:09
Speaker 1: support team. We're overwhelmed on uh you know, just sort
52:13
Speaker 1: of the identity checks and things like that. But you know,
52:15
Speaker 1: it's not our first business, it's not our team's first
52:17
Speaker 1: time we're together. We we know what we're doing, and um,
52:20
Speaker 1: we're getting a handle around it. What is the future? Here?
52:23
Speaker 1: Is the n B restricted anyway? Can you just drop
52:26
Speaker 1: a pack you know with a one of one or
52:29
Speaker 1: one of three? Yeah, we have um one of threes
52:32
Speaker 1: and one of one's minted. There's one hundred and fifty
52:35
Speaker 1: total one of ones. They're actually the hundred fifty first
52:38
Speaker 1: tokens minted on the Flow blockchain, even before the Flow
52:40
Speaker 1: token are the hundred fifty one of ones um, And
52:43
Speaker 1: so it's just a question of when we release those.
52:45
Speaker 1: We kind of wanted to be out of beta so
52:47
Speaker 1: they're more more accessible to sort of everybody. UM. And
52:50
Speaker 1: then the three of three's, we also want to make
52:52
Speaker 1: sure like the player gets a piece of it. So
52:53
Speaker 1: how cool it would it be if if every player
52:56
Speaker 1: got one of their one of three's, effectively becoming a
52:59
Speaker 1: two of two. Source are thinking through what are the
53:01
Speaker 1: mechanics there? And our packs the right way? Are auctions
53:04
Speaker 1: the right way? Um? Many long term collectors prefer auctions,
53:07
Speaker 1: whereas you know, packs are sort of a hoping for
53:10
Speaker 1: a Lebron kind of moments sometimes, so where we're still
53:13
Speaker 1: investigating the best way to do that. How big of
53:16
Speaker 1: a moment is it for you that that Heritage Auctions
53:19
Speaker 1: and Golden Auctions have each put a highlight up for
53:23
Speaker 1: auction in there, you know, legitimate auction. I mean that
53:27
Speaker 1: to me, it seems like that happened way faster than
53:31
Speaker 1: I thought it would, that a digital highlight is being
53:33
Speaker 1: sold in a very physical auction marketplace. Yeah, I mean,
53:37
Speaker 1: I think it's super cool. We love those guys, and
53:39
Speaker 1: I think that that I think there's so much potential
53:42
Speaker 1: for collaboration or like drops that that crossover physical and
53:46
Speaker 1: digital memorabilia. But I don't think I'm I was surprised.
53:49
Speaker 1: I mean, we we did a Christie's auction back in
53:52
Speaker 1: for a crypto kitty like it's it's impossible to bet
53:56
Speaker 1: against digital. People are starting to understand that what is
53:59
Speaker 1: it lie on the inside outside pressure? Are you sleeping?
54:03
Speaker 1: Are you eating appropriately? Sleep deprived as I think how
54:08
Speaker 1: I would describe it. You know, it's been super exciting obviously,
54:10
Speaker 1: you know, we waited a long time for this moment.
54:12
Speaker 1: We worked super hard for for for this moment. So um,
54:15
Speaker 1: we're working hard trying to you know, both capitalize but
54:18
Speaker 1: also sort of deliver on customer expectations. So yeah, all
54:21
Speaker 1: kinds of people are calling me from obviously all the
54:24
Speaker 1: major sports, leaked to every celebrity you can think of,
54:26
Speaker 1: and we're just trying to do, you know, the right
54:28
Speaker 1: thing for our users and trying to prioritize really because
54:32
Speaker 1: I think we're at the very earliest stages of what
54:35
Speaker 1: digital assets can do. Most people still don't understand the
54:39
Speaker 1: huge sort of long term potential here. They see the
54:41
Speaker 1: dollar signs and so where where all of this is
54:44
Speaker 1: taking us is assets that you know are owned by
54:47
Speaker 1: the people that pay for them. You know, software that
54:50
Speaker 1: is controlled by the people that use it. You know,
54:51
Speaker 1: if you're part of a social network and you add
54:54
Speaker 1: value to it, you should be able to accrue that value.
54:56
Speaker 1: There's a lot of critics, right There's a lot of
54:58
Speaker 1: people who love, there's a lot of people who don't understand.
55:01
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who bash. Some critics say
55:03
Speaker 1: that you own a ton of the highlights, you know,
55:06
Speaker 1: like I think like five million dollars worth right now.
55:09
Speaker 1: What is your answer to whether that's a conflict or not.
55:13
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's a valid question. My
55:15
Speaker 1: account name is Rohan, so I'm clearly not hiding the bet.
55:18
Speaker 1: And the benefit is it's it's blockchain, it's transparency. Everything's
55:21
Speaker 1: out there. Everyone can audit all of my purchase history,
55:23
Speaker 1: everything I bought on the marketplace, everything I opened in
55:26
Speaker 1: a pack. And the reality is, you know, six months
55:28
Speaker 1: ago we were talking to investors, we were talking to
55:31
Speaker 1: you know, other IP owners and everyone kind of you know,
55:34
Speaker 1: people didn't people didn't even know that this was going
55:37
Speaker 1: to be a thing, right, It was a it was
55:39
Speaker 1: a bet. You know, we were lucky that we have
55:41
Speaker 1: people like Fred Wilson and others that that deeply believe
55:44
Speaker 1: in the future we're building. But to be frank, you know,
55:47
Speaker 1: I had to understand this product that we built, and
55:49
Speaker 1: it took many months of myself using it, our team
55:52
Speaker 1: using it, being part of the community, like day in,
55:55
Speaker 1: day out, you know, being sort of competing on a
55:58
Speaker 1: even terrain. And back then, you know, packs were available
56:00
Speaker 1: for days, not a seconds, so so it wasn't like
56:03
Speaker 1: we were sort of taking someone else's spot. We were
56:06
Speaker 1: trying to understand our own product. And then since you know,
56:08
Speaker 1: it became a contentious thing, I stopped trading. Um, we're
56:11
Speaker 1: going to put out a statement on you know, what's
56:13
Speaker 1: our sort of employee account policy. Me personally, I consider
56:17
Speaker 1: it's sort of like Satti's wallet, that's the original, the
56:20
Speaker 1: original cryptopic, right, the funder big one. And you know,
56:24
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm being facetious. I don't mean to be
56:26
Speaker 1: that presumptuous. It's either you're gonna hold on to it
56:29
Speaker 1: forever and not trade it, or you're gonna get divest
56:32
Speaker 1: all of it, but you're not actively in and out
56:35
Speaker 1: of trading anymore precisely, And if we can figure out
56:38
Speaker 1: a way where um it makes sense for I mean,
56:41
Speaker 1: there's some ideas around fractionalization. Can the community get an
56:44
Speaker 1: ownership and then they want me to play it and
56:47
Speaker 1: actually be kind of active, But you know, we want
56:49
Speaker 1: to do what's the you know, the big at the
56:51
Speaker 1: big picture here is what's important to us. So there's
56:54
Speaker 1: no way we'd be here if if the team hadn't
56:56
Speaker 1: been able to play the product. You know, this was hard,
56:58
Speaker 1: This was a it's still is hard in the sense of,
57:01
Speaker 1: you know, managing and open economy is a new thing.
57:03
Speaker 1: But I think we've figured out the pieces now and
57:05
Speaker 1: can sort of step back a little bit. I've heard
57:08
Speaker 1: conflicting reports about how long the deal is and then
57:11
Speaker 1: like whether the NBA can stop it, So can you
57:13
Speaker 1: tell me anything about that or at least are there
57:16
Speaker 1: any plans to open up previous years or is it
57:20
Speaker 1: only going to be here going forward? On the deal
57:24
Speaker 1: terms are confidential, but I can say I want to
57:26
Speaker 1: work with the league to announce it I think it's
57:28
Speaker 1: totally valid for people to know. But both the league
57:32
Speaker 1: and US we look at this as a multi decade relationship.
57:34
Speaker 1: We're building a hunt. Trading cards being around for a
57:36
Speaker 1: hundred years, these things should be around for a way longer,
57:39
Speaker 1: and so that's that's sort of the mentality we have
57:40
Speaker 1: building it. The reason they're on the blockchain is because
57:44
Speaker 1: highlights and sort of these videos are so valuable to
57:46
Speaker 1: the NBA. They can't just put them in a video
57:48
Speaker 1: game that belongs to somebody else or have them as
57:51
Speaker 1: like digital stickers on Instagram or something. The point of
57:54
Speaker 1: them being on the blockchain is the worst case. Let's
57:57
Speaker 1: say that allows next year says hey, you know what,
57:59
Speaker 1: we're just gonna work with the NFL. We're not even
58:01
Speaker 1: gonna we don't even want to do basketball. Well, the
58:03
Speaker 1: NBA can spin up an NBA Top Shot by themselves
58:06
Speaker 1: or with another developer, essentially honor all of the past
58:10
Speaker 1: UH collectors um assets, and that's what they want to do.
58:13
Speaker 1: They want this to be more like jerseys and trading
58:16
Speaker 1: cards and signed basketball's, where they can work with different
58:19
Speaker 1: manufacturers potentially and sell it and maybe they're on different
58:22
Speaker 1: marketplaces and like I can imagine that a highlight like
58:25
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's dunking in the Dunk Contest, Like if a
58:29
Speaker 1: highlight was crazy. Now, we did see the Lebron Kobe tribute.
58:33
Speaker 1: That's an amazing highlight and that was the one that
58:36
Speaker 1: resold for forty seven thousand bucks. So like, are you
58:39
Speaker 1: looking for great past highlights? Can that be introduced as
58:43
Speaker 1: part of this deal? It can, absolutely, It's definitely part
58:46
Speaker 1: of the deal. But the idea is it would be
58:47
Speaker 1: super easy for us to take the most iconic moments
58:50
Speaker 1: in history and and sort of turn them into collectibles itself.
58:53
Speaker 1: We wanted to first start with what about everyday games?
58:55
Speaker 1: What about what's happening right now? Can can we extract
58:58
Speaker 1: the most iconic moments there, because that's actually a much
59:01
Speaker 1: richer field and it's it sort of happens all the time.
59:03
Speaker 1: Of course, we can go in the past. We've done
59:05
Speaker 1: one running back stet from, but we don't want to
59:08
Speaker 1: do the things we know will appeal to a billion
59:11
Speaker 1: NBA fans until we can handle a billion NBA fans.
59:13
Speaker 1: That that's really the mindset is is, you know, I
59:16
Speaker 1: think that we do want to have some awesome content
59:18
Speaker 1: for beata users. But you know, the kinds of things
59:20
Speaker 1: you're you're sort of talking about, is uh is you know,
59:24
Speaker 1: minimum six months away, probably probably longer. What can you
59:28
Speaker 1: tell me is next? I mean, I think the expectation
59:31
Speaker 1: should be we're gonna go hard on NBA until it's
59:35
Speaker 1: out of beta. What the term is the timeline? And
59:37
Speaker 1: beata A you know, infrastructure stability and reliability that we're
59:41
Speaker 1: getting theirs A P. It's our support timelines. We've got
59:43
Speaker 1: to get back to people within twenty four hours, so
59:45
Speaker 1: that's that's Any more than that is not acceptable. And
59:49
Speaker 1: then all of the identity checks, withdrawals, all these things
59:51
Speaker 1: have to be within twenty four hours. Everything's got to
59:54
Speaker 1: be the way a normal customer would expect it to be,
59:57
Speaker 1: because the people get angry otherwise and and they're sort
59:59
Speaker 1: of confuse, what's happening to their money? Why is anyone
1:00:02
Speaker 1: answering in question? We have to follow a certain set
1:00:04
Speaker 1: of guidelines for every single user. Look at their source
1:00:07
Speaker 1: of funds, run projects on our credit cards, look at
1:00:09
Speaker 1: their source of crypto? Do do these anti money laundering checks?
1:00:13
Speaker 1: Like literally, until recently was one person and her job,
1:00:16
Speaker 1: her main job was being the head of product. This
1:00:18
Speaker 1: thing happened so fast. There's only so much that you
1:00:21
Speaker 1: can expect from a business. And you know, so I
1:00:24
Speaker 1: get that part completely. I mean, now it's a full team.
1:00:27
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's five six people, a few contractors
1:00:30
Speaker 1: we have outside um uh firms that are ramping up.
1:00:33
Speaker 1: But it takes it takes at least two weeks. Right,
1:00:35
Speaker 1: we barely had a month to sort of ramp up.
1:00:37
Speaker 1: And this is basically on a marketplace transaction, let's say, right,
1:00:42
Speaker 1: because because it's credit cards and and you know, people
1:00:44
Speaker 1: can come in with you know, stolen credit cards, people
1:00:46
Speaker 1: can and it's peer to peer, so you can two
1:00:49
Speaker 1: people can come in from different parts of the world
1:00:51
Speaker 1: and have a transaction. We have to look at both
1:00:53
Speaker 1: of those people. We have to do all of the
1:00:55
Speaker 1: traditional you know, compliance checks, and it just takes takes
1:00:59
Speaker 1: effort to be clear. Money can change hands on the
1:01:02
Speaker 1: platform really easily. It's when people want to withdraw it
1:01:05
Speaker 1: out of the platform that we have to sort of
1:01:07
Speaker 1: do the hey, this identity check and are you a
1:01:09
Speaker 1: real person or you from a sanctioned country and and
1:01:12
Speaker 1: there are you know, limits of if you spend x amount,
1:01:14
Speaker 1: it sort of kicks in and says, usually use your
1:01:16
Speaker 1: phone and just verify your identity. Most of the time
1:01:19
Speaker 1: it's seamless, it doesn't have a human intervention, and it
1:01:22
Speaker 1: sort of happens quickly. But you know, someone's driver's license
1:01:25
Speaker 1: expired because it's COVID, and you know the software kicks off.
1:01:28
Speaker 1: Hey it's expired, and so a human needs to step in,
1:01:31
Speaker 1: and it just takes a lot of bandwidth be there,
1:01:34
Speaker 1: solved problems by other organizations, and um, we're we're in
1:01:37
Speaker 1: really good shape, kind of getting hidle around them. Rohan
1:01:41
Speaker 1: gargaz Lou, the CEO of Dapper Labs, parent company of
1:01:45
Speaker 1: Top Shot. Hey, there's no one hotter than new Baby,
1:01:48
Speaker 1: keep going. Hey, thank you very much for your help
1:01:51
Speaker 1: and your support. And I'm great to be on here
1:01:53
Speaker 1: all right. Thanks to Darren, thanks to Rohan, thanks to
1:01:57
Speaker 1: Jack Settlement, thanks to Simon Hunter. This has been the
1:02:00
Speaker 1: favorites from the Action Network. Downloaded, Apple, Podcast, Spotify, wherever
1:02:04
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Until next time, I love you,
1:02:09
Speaker 1: h