Latest / Identity at the Center / #160 - Previewing the 2022 Gartner IAM Summit in Las Vegas

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#160 - Previewing the 2022 Gartner IAM Summit in Las Vegas · Identity at the Center

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You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
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the show that talks about identity and access management
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and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
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started. Welcome to the identity of the
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center podcast. I'm Jeff.
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And that's Jim. Hey Jim.
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Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
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I'm good man. I'm so excited for next week and
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going to the conference and I got through the gardener
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Converse navigator app, set up my agenda and looking forward to
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talking about it a little bit. Have you ever been so excited to
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go to a Gartner conference? I think I get pretty excited
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every year. Because it's just, I read every
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time it's going to be, you know, a new interesting set of events
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that take place and people to meet.
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And I mean yeah I get jazzed about that.
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I think I'm kind of a social person, right?
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So this whole pandemic thing for me, kind of stunk like being at
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home and not seeing people, I will say that, like, I think
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everybody ever meet somebody who says, oh, I'm I'm an introvert
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and you're like, you're one of the most extroverted people I've
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ever met myself. I think everybody's got like a
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little bit of both in them, right?
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They could be extroverted when the mood strikes, if they're
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truly an introvert, or if they're like, truly an
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extrovert, they still have that side of them, that likes to go
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camping or backpacking or, you know, doing something that is
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away from people. And so, I'm I say I'm Classic,
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extrovert. But I've got an introvert side
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to me and I think during the pandemic, I kind of crawled into
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that and spend a lot of time, like, doing things that I like,
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doing by myself or that word social in nature.
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But now I'm like, super excited because there's this conference,
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we're looking at some additional conferences in the future
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getting out there and meeting people.
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Yeah, was whatever people are comfortable doing with shaking
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hands. Fist bump elbow bump waving from
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across the room, whatever they want to do up.
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Go with that idea out of recognition.
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Hey, you know, like you do that the head uptick in that kind of?
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Yes, yes, I was never comfortable with that though.
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It's like I always think like, well did they see it?
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Was it right? Did I nod my head?
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The eye contact is very important for that one.
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Like that's how, you know. Yeah, that's a good point.
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But yeah, I'm excited about that.
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I'm also excited. I mean you know it's funny when
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you talk to people Talk about Vegas.
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Everybody has an opinion right? Nobody's neutral on Vegas.
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So either people love going there and people over for
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different reasons like you. And I were not gamblers.
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We're not like, I'm probably more of a partier than you but I
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don't really go there to like, you know, go to the nightclubs
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or whatever. But you know, obviously all
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those things very got the shows you got tons of nightlife but
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But I also kind of just feel like, no matter what you're
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doing, you feel like you're doing something.
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Yeah. It is like a jam-packed event, I
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feel like this, this is the so normally I go for educational
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and maybe some networking and kind of things like that and I
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guess if you're listening to this Gartner's already in flight
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because I'm not sure if I'll put this out a day ahead of time
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than we normally do on Monday or if it will actually be a Monday
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but you know Gartner starts August 22nd runs the 24 set
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Monday through Wednesday. We normally publish on Mondays.
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We'll see if I have time to get Out.
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Maybe I'll do it the night before or something like that
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but yeah, Gartner's in full swing already, most likely if
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you're listening to this or it's already past, you know, I'm I'm
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looking forward to it. I think this year, I'm going
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with a little bit of different lens.
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This is I'm actually going to work.
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You know this is not a joyride by any stretch.
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Although I do enjoy the topic obviously.
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Otherwise we would be doing a podcast or three years around
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this. So the topics seem to have a
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pretty good spread to Across the across the Spectrum.
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Bactrim for my Denny perspective and now they've got, you know, a
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bunch of different tracks. I've got a bunch of different
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topics. The tracks are, I am vision and
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strategy, governments and Pam access management authentication
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emerging. I am Technologies which
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personally I find out was interesting like what's next
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right? Coming coming down the pipe.
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So you know there's those there's different topics like
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analytics be yoi and decentralised identity which I
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don't know. I'm still not sold.
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I get the concept and I think it's I think there's something
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there but I don't know if we've necessarily reached product
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viability yet in that space for the mass Market but we'll see.
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And that's kind of one of the things I'm looking at and of
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course you have Cloud customer IGA.
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I think the I Am leadership side of things, right?
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Being able to run programs or things like that MFA obviously
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privileged access again and then security and privacy is sort of
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like a topic spread. So I feel like there's something
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for everybody and I know that you and I had been looking
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through the the agenda itself and sort of building out our
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agenda through the conference navigator that Gardner provides
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which you know, hats off to Garner.
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They know how to run a Converse there, right.
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This is like one of the one of their Breads and butters is
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doing these types of things but they've got the app, make it
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really easy to kind of, you know, plot out your day and have
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kind of everything at your fingertips.
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I don't know if you notice this one thing though, I don't
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remember seeing this in previous years but when you install the
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app this year and you sign up for and go through things, it
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asks you for permission to find other Is on the network and
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using Bluetooth as well. So I'm guessing that they have
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some sort of some sort of Bluetooth beaconing that helps
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guide you to your sessions because we all know, Vegas can
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be amazed sometimes. So be interesting to see I'm
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going to I'm going to nerd out and kind of test it out and see
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how that actually works, but it's not dissimilar to what
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Apple does in their stores where they have Bluetooth beacons or
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other vendors like Best Buy for example, in the United States,
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using your phone and using Bluetooth beacons, the base a
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guy Guide you through to where you should be or in the general
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area at least which I think is kind of cool.
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Yeah. Wouldn't that be cool?
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I mean, you know, I think everybody's kind of like afraid
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of the future where it's like, oh, you're walking somewhere
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through with your phone and we've got these advertising
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stations like hey make a left and we'll give you 10 cents off
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of grande latte. But yeah, I mean, you know, I to
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your point about gardener knowing how to put on an event.
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And I say that in my history of going to Gartner conferences and
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I don't go every year. But I've been to probably 7 8
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maybe 10 of the gardener conferences over the past 20
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years. And might my takeaway or my
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belief is that there's a large percentage of the folks that go
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to the conference. Well, first off, I think a lot
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of conferences, you get 75 percent.
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Percent people who are like industry people.
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Right. So not folks who are in the
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organizations and like trying to solve this.
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I am problem for the first time but folks either who work for
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technology vendors or Consultants like us who kind of
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like live in these trenches and are trying to solve the same
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problem over and over again. And you know, whereas I think on
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the Gartner side they bring people who are new to the
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industry. To the to the conference.
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So people who are trying to learn, okay, what is this?
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I am thing, how do I run an IM program?
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What you know, what does it mean to do IGA?
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Or what does it mean to do access management or privileged
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access management? So I think that kind of brings a
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cool perspective at a cool aspect to this conference that
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I'm not used to running into you at other conferences.
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You know. One of the other things I was
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kind of thinking about as you were talking about like, the
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different tracks. Ax is I think with a lot of
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conferences that are smaller, you might have two tracks like a
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tick, you attractive business track or leadership tracker or
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something like that. And what I tend to find myself
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doing a lot in in the kind of conference set up is, you know,
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sticking more with one track. And I think that's almost like
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either encourage or the way they stagger the sessions it makes it
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hard to go back and forth. I would say with gardener the
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tracks are almost Theoretical tracks in my mind like that.
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I don't feel like I have to kind of stay in my lane and the
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approach that I take is, I like to bounce around.
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I like to get a bit of a taste for each of the areas to see.
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Okay, what's happening within that area?
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What sessions kind of resonate with me specific to that area.
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So just to prove you really think we're going to kind of
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what I'd like to do is kind of go through my agenda, at least
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for the first day of the conference.
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But, you know, I've got a session that I'm doing which is
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the magic quadrant for access management.
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But I'm also doing a session on best practices for running a
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privileged access management program.
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Now as not that I haven't read the magic quadrant for access
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management or that I've never set up for crew Jax's Management
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program. I've done both of those things,
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but somebody's going to whose Giving this presentation, is it
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going to give me a perspective? Give me a few nuggets and
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either, you know, probably take a position that either confirms
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what I believe already or runs counter to the things that I
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believe. And so I think that's one of the
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great things about being in. The sessions is to challenge
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your thinking, why there's a good variety.
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I think, like, you and I have different probably objectives at
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a high level right for you to think obviously the main
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objectives like get smarter better faster stronger.
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Right sharpened. I saw as you like to say.
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I think that, you know, I think about it from the roles that
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each of us play in our day jobs, right?
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There's there's differences there.
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Even so building, an identity practice, giving identity advice
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to people, right? You've got to be like on top of
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your game and really kind of you're supposed to be the expert
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on everything that ever happened in the identity World.
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Whether that's a realistic you know, expectation or not that's
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basically how it works. So you know attending these
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types of events and these types of sessions is good and I follow
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the same thing as Did I bounced all over the place?
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I am I am not afraid to pull the plug, you know, two minutes or
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three minutes into something. If if it is not what I thought
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was advertised, you know, for example in the title there's too
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many good events to try and stick with one.
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So I find myself very conflicted, a lot, you know, if
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I have friends that are there you know I will definitely make
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a point to try and see their sessions, you know, as best as I
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can. But I'm definitely a bouncer.
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I'll move around from session to session and track the track and
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try to pick. What I think is either most
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relevant for me right now. Or what should I be thinking
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about kind of next date. That's a really good point
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because I do the same thing go to a session if within 5 to 10
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minutes, I feel like, all right, this isn't really what I need or
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what I was expecting than I'll get out of there.
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So I think, you know, as you go and plan, they certainly views
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the converse advocator app to kind of pick the sessions that
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you want to go to, but have a plan B.
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My in mind, make it clear. This is not sponsored by
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Gartner, it's just us, two talking, the Friday before we
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fly to Vegas to attend. This year's my Pro tip, by the
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way, what I'm thinking about this, and I just care occurred
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to me. I'm looking at the conference
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Navigator online, through Gartner's website, and a lot of
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sessions are live streamed. So if you are like a total
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conference Pro, what you could do is be sitting in one session
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earpod in one ear, it's live streaming another session and
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attending to, at the same time. I'm now I don't know if you're
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actually gonna be able to retain any knowledge coming out of
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that. If it's helpful what might be a
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thing to think about, you know if you're if you really want to
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go at it they also got like the media.
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So usually put like the slides and stuff that you can kind of
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download if there was something there that you saw.
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Because I know a lot of people like take pictures of you know,
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they're raising like they're giant iPads blocking, people's
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view, you know, against up, the slides are sometimes on the site
12:47
so you can kind of steal it that steal it re-appropriate, the
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content that has been made available.
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Through our friends over at Gartner might attract but I want
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to throw it out there. Yeah.
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Well my Pro tip would be don't do that.
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Don't raise your right hand by Caverns.
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Yeah, don't do that. But that also don't like try to
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live streaming show to your phone or a different session at
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being ones like just go to the one you think you're going to
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get the most out of in and pay attention.
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Jeff, do you want to kind of go through?
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Like I'd like to point out a couple of sessions that
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resonated with me but I also wanted to mention Mention like
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if you're listening to this and you're a fan of the show and you
13:27
haven't liked taking the step to reach out to us yet, do it.
13:32
Hit us up something like tin. Make us look good in front of
13:35
our bosses. That'd be awesome if you see us.
13:37
Yeah, connect your son LinkedIn. So you can know what we look
13:40
like and then if you see us at the show just come over and fist
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bump. Yep.
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Do it anyway. So what I was going to do is
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kind of run-down like, definitely go ahead and the
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keynote on Monday. How do you do to really
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accelerate when your So freaking tired as What's called the for
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1030. I'm hitting the magic quadrant
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for access management. You know, I kind of feel like
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that's a space where either so much neck and neck competition
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and the you know you had that period of time where actor was
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like far away. Past everybody that Microsoft
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really made a move. Now locked and and Microsoft
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always neck and neck. And then there's other leaders
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in that space as well. So I always To get the
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perspective and understand. Okay.
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Well, as these different vendors, move around, especially
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in the leaders quadrant, like, what is, what's causing them to
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move around, right? It's just that they, you know,
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like minor things or is there something that they're doing
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that? It's really exciting.
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And I hope that that will come out of this session.
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You know, maybe more than what you just get by reading the
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document, the next session I have is called tops
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cybersecurity Trend. So, this one area where, you
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know, I feel Like there's some emerging technologies that are
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coming about, like the one that like boxing shall.
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We watch has been coming around for so long.
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Yeah, exactly. There's there's one called itd,
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our identity threat detection and response, right?
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So it's like the, the next generation of threat detection
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and response based on identity. And I don't know, a whole lot
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about it, right? And so I'm thinking that's going
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to fall into that space. Yes, but I want to see what else
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is in there. You know, for a couple of years
15:26
back. It was it was a user and to
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u.e.b. a user, an entity behavioral analytics and that
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was all the rage and you don't hear as much about it anymore.
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Yeah, I think you're more like you ba.
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I think people have settled on that but whatever.
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I've kind of picked the 11:45 block, is more of like a vendor
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space. I picked my one that I'm going
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to go there, go to there and I'm not going to reveal what it is,
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because I want to say vendor-neutral 12:30 is do
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privileged access management, right?
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Build an effective and mature. I am program as really like two
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perspectives that I have with this one is, you know, when it
16:10
comes to privileged access management, I don't think it's
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something that you can do to your users, like you can say,
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okay, you administrators. You're going to have to start
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using this privileged access management tool, whether you
16:22
like it or not. Not because I think you can be
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so much passive resistance that it'll make the thing not work.
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Well right, it'll fail. My other perspective is that the
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traditional view of for privileged access management
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program is focus on your running, your own data centers
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and you're not in this kind of like devops environment and so
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it's less about, you know, dynamic Pam and Claude
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entitlements, as more Out, you know, traditional we run our
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data centers and we have everything on servers and you
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know, we're doing Pam, I just don't think that's really that
17:04
relevant. Unless you can move it into the
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cloud infrastructure and devops, so that's what man thoughts on
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pack them in. There's so much going on that
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you know. Pam is the one of those things
17:16
where I think a lot its organizational struggle, just
17:17
rolling it out. It's you're taking control away
17:21
from people who may have had it, you know, that there.
17:23
Fingertips. And there's like, this, cultural
17:25
political sort of internal battle that sometimes takes
17:28
place. It's usually not a.
17:29
We were actually were talking about this before before we hit
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record and most Pam. Deployments that I've seen have
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not been the Technology's fault. It's been poor planning poor
17:39
execution, poor really internal program management around it and
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making sure the people understand what is happening.
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So that's my two cents on Pam. Well, do and you're right on and
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the sad part though, is that And because of that, there's still
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so many organizations that are at the very immature stage of
18:03
privileged access management. Not even Dimension, managing
18:07
access to Cloud infrastructure and you think about access to
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Cloud infrastructure it's almost entirely privileged access.
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There's not access to Cloud infrastructure.
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That is not privileged, I don't think so.
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When you look at it from that perspective it's got to be in
18:22
the scope but when your Still not even managing your domain
18:25
admin accounts through some kind of session management.
18:29
I mean geez Louise like you're really starting at square one so
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I think I hope you to come away from that session with a little
18:37
bit of perspective on those areas to see if they're going to
18:42
take on those. Those hard questions to me like
18:45
privileged access management, is you have from that perspective.
18:49
One of the hardest things that we do, we'll see, I guess.
18:51
I mean, a lot of these sessions Interesting titles.
18:54
Anyway, whether or not they deliver, I think this is why
18:57
reference before. Like you know I'm not I'm not
18:59
afraid to pull the plug on something.
19:00
That isn't what I originally signed up for or what?
19:03
I thought it would be, right? Maybe it's no fault and then I
19:05
think part of this plays into, you know, SEO search engine
19:09
optimization, right? Making sure that people haven't,
19:12
we do the same thing with the show titles that we know is I
19:14
try to anyway, like here's what we're going to be talking about,
19:16
right. Try to make it at least
19:17
somewhat, interesting for people to find it make it make it easy,
19:20
but we'll see. Yeah, so if it's if it's not Not
19:23
the greatest section may be an early lunch.
19:27
I love, you know, spending as much time as possible in the
19:30
exhibit hall, running into Old Friends, making new friends.
19:35
Anyway. The afternoon, I haven't
19:37
registered for that many sessions, but there was one
19:39
called rise of machines, meets digital transformation.
19:43
So when I think of rise to machines, obviously, I'm
19:46
thinking of like Terminator, but yeah, but I'm thinking of like,
19:49
you know, Bots and then I'm thinking digital transformation
19:53
is Is like to me, you know, this one of the most exciting things
19:58
about what we do when you talk about, like customer, I am and
20:03
enabling it digital transformation.
20:05
So I get this could be one of those like that.
20:08
The title is just so, so Savory that savory Savory.
20:14
All right. That's clearly not using the
20:17
right there. I'm right.
20:17
But I love it. I think it's a fantastic way to
20:20
describe a title, that's good. But it might totally just fight
20:24
but who knows? I mean you know that's why we
20:27
show up and then security organ organization, Dynamic.
20:33
So okay, so late in the afternoon, I plugged into one
20:35
called security organization, Dynamics be.
20:39
This is like, I think this could be really interesting.
20:43
This could be like really focus on human resources and kind of
20:47
like, You know, I think it's security organizations.
20:52
What I found is like you've got a lot of people with really
20:55
strong personalities. He also has some people who are,
20:59
you know, maybe less strong personalities, I don't know.
21:05
I mean, I just I feel like this one could be filled with some
21:09
good conversation, we'll see where it goes.
21:11
I noticed one thing as I was looking through this sorry you
21:13
got more more. You're covering the first day.
21:15
You got a jam-packed first day of so yeah, no, I just Just to
21:19
mention last one, which is that one of our former colleagues and
21:23
Friends of the show, Jamie Grace is presenting one called Sarah's
21:27
of cloud identity transformation.
21:30
And so that is one. I'm going to go to, even if the
21:35
total was terrible, I'd go anyway just to go see Jimmy was
21:38
really smart. She knows what she's talking
21:40
about and tell her we sent you. That'd be even even better.
21:44
There you go. I think we're gonna try and set
21:46
aside some time to sit with Jamie next week and Of course
21:48
some podcasting. Absolutely.
21:51
Yeah we do we have time scheduled.
21:52
So yeah that's something to mention, right?
21:56
So we are getting a recording suite at Caesar's Palace and
22:05
we're going to record like six or seven episodes which we're
22:09
going to have to push out over the course of about two weeks.
22:13
I know you're looking at me like dried trying to like figure out
22:15
how I'm going to get this stuff edited and put out.
22:18
I feel bad because like, I don't know how to do any of this thing
22:22
so you've basically do it all and as I got older, maybe yeah,
22:26
it is a lot of work, but it's fun work.
22:28
I think it's I've certainly learned a lot.
22:30
I've definitely upped my AV game for zoom and teams calls, that's
22:34
for sure. I thought it was so interesting.
22:36
We're talking to Big Boss from our company Gauzy and you and
22:42
him were geeking out on like the audio files offense, like holy
22:47
cow, like I do, I feel like I've known you for so long, so it
22:50
didn't surprise me that you keep got on the stuff but, you know
22:54
that he did, I was like, well, that's pretty cool.
22:56
Yeah, he's a musician. So he gets it, you know, good
22:59
audio quality is important. We do a podcast.
23:02
It's mostly, it's 99.9% audio. Other than the few live stream,
23:06
is that we did, which we will come back to it, some point.
23:08
But anyway, we're getting sidetracked.
23:11
I think we probably should have mentioned.
23:12
Yeah, we're gonna be doing a bunch a bunch of podcasts there.
23:14
We've got a sweet courtesy of our friends, at our It's hooked
23:18
us up real nicely. So we are going to record up
23:21
there and get some people in there.
23:23
Hopefully, if you're listening and you know, attending or
23:28
watching how we, you know, put this together.
23:31
The haphazard way sometimes that it but it comes together.
23:34
We'd be happy to host maybe a live studio audience of I don't
23:38
know, hovering people we can fit into a Caesar sweet as we
23:41
record. Yeah, I mean look if if somebody
23:44
wants to be involved with the show next week and you're going
23:47
to be there just reach Shout. Yep.
23:49
LinkedIn is the best way to do that.
23:50
That's for sure. I was.
23:52
Okay, so back to Gartner because I noticed something about each
23:55
of the Keynotes, at least how they are worded from a title
23:59
perspective. The first one is how to
24:03
digitally accelerate when you're so freaking tired.
24:05
The next one is how to create a culture of listening.
24:08
The next one is storytelling and big data, and then the last one
24:12
is stop treating security, like magic and security people, like
24:17
Wizards, none of Those seen at first glance to be technology
24:22
specific or like here's what I J is all about or Pam, they're
24:26
very much people and culture and things like that, which I find
24:32
interesting. I don't know if I've noticed
24:34
picked up on this trend. This trend in Prior Gartner
24:37
conferences and I'm sure there is a conscious decision, you
24:40
know, what goes into a keynote, but I do find it interesting.
24:43
That the Keynotes really don't have anything to do at first
24:45
glance with technology, it's really people.
24:48
That they're talking about. Yeah, that's a very interesting
24:53
observation. And I know in the past, some
24:55
conferences that I've gone to, they choose the keynote speaker,
24:59
who is, you know, like a celebrity or somebody, you know,
25:03
from outside of your industry, maybe until nine once it was
25:07
awesome. Yeah, yeah.
25:09
Right. And he's not going to get up
25:10
there and talk about identity and access management that would
25:14
be terrible. So yeah, it's it's these
25:20
Officers are weighted our time to get away from doing your day
25:24
job and think bigger, and yes, most of our sessions are going
25:28
to be focused on what we do during your day job, but there's
25:33
more to the world than and if you don't expand your horizons
25:36
or like you, like you said earlier, my favorite saying is
25:41
sharpen the saw. If you don't kind of like,
25:44
expand the way you think, then how you're going to grow as a
25:47
person? Yeah.
25:48
Because stagnate your head left behind You're not first.
25:50
You're last as you know, Ricky Bobby was used to say, if you're
25:54
not first, you're last. All right, we've been talking
25:58
for like, 30 minutes around this.
25:59
I think one of the things that you and I were thinking about is
26:02
really kind of picking a couple sessions, maybe each and seeing
26:05
what comes to mind. I'm not sure how those I go so
26:08
we'll see. I think this is somewhat a
26:09
surprise me for each of us, but should I start, or should you
26:12
start? Let me start.
26:13
So the first one that I picked was a Monday at 11:45 session
26:17
call. So so what we're doing is we're
26:20
going. Pick just the title.
26:21
So it's like a salacious title something where Savory chocolate
26:26
Savory title it took the the title you can put it at the top
26:30
of the blog post and then just start writing a Blog and so
26:34
we're going to throw it out there and like start verbally
26:37
writing your blog I guess. So how the first one I have is
26:40
Monday 11:45 how to avoid common IGA, pitfalls and deploy
26:46
successfully. So what comes to mind with that?
26:51
How to avoid it. I think planning, setting
26:54
expectations managing the timeline and making sure that
26:58
those things are realistic, obviously selecting the right
27:00
technology for the use cases, communication, with all the
27:04
different teams. Even the ones that you think,
27:06
maybe they, maybe they shouldn't be involved.
27:09
They probably are bring everyone to the table.
27:11
Make sure everyone understands it.
27:12
I think if it's the planning side of things is probably where
27:16
most of the issues will cry. Think this is another situation
27:18
where it's not necessarily. The Technology's fault per se.
27:23
You should know what you're getting into from a capability
27:24
standpoint, but then it's really upon the organization and the
27:27
people that are executing, the deployment of any sort of
27:32
service to make sure that the planning is there and
27:34
Communications. There, the expectations are
27:36
managed, all the things that goes along with really watching
27:39
any successful you know, project doesn't have to be identity
27:41
specific. I think these are best or maybe
27:45
leading practices or ideas and you would hope that more
27:48
organizations would you. No, have that mindset but not
27:51
every organization is successful at these and unfortunately and
27:56
that's just the reality of way things work.
27:57
Sometimes that's what I think of, it's great, the great Frank
28:03
via visitin co-wrote an article, the top 10 pitfalls of and I am
28:08
program. Those is blog.
28:11
I updated it. You updated it.
28:13
We had them on the show. He called passwords the herpes
28:17
of I am, you know, that top And pitfalls.
28:20
We refer to so many times over the years of the nigh a gram and
28:26
the one that always popped out at me, I can always remember was
28:30
too much too soon so I really feel like when you're going into
28:34
an IGA deployment it's like you have all these things you want
28:38
to accomplish. You've got to get kind of that
28:42
that minimally viable product stood up.
28:45
You get like got to make that the Target and get Going into
28:50
production six months or less. And so that's what I'm going to
28:55
say is one of the biggest pitfalls.
28:58
So limits are hard, what's that at?
29:01
Deployments are hard. I mean they just are, right?
29:04
So you have to your right there hard.
29:07
So what you have to do is avoid making them harder by making
29:10
decisions. Like, oh yeah, we can't live
29:12
without this new feature. Yeah.
29:14
All right. When I picked out was
29:17
cybersecurity mesh architecture, 101.
29:20
And what comes to Jimmy Mac, Iams mind when you hear that.
29:25
Yeah, I think that, you know, we're probably start is the term
29:32
identity at the center. So, it kind of the the mesh is,
29:36
like all the parts and components that go into the
29:40
architecture. But whenever you have a mesh, I
29:43
think you still have to have something at the center.
29:45
So it's the identity management component and how it integrates
29:49
to To the detection and response the DLP, the other other tools.
29:59
But I'm drawing a blank here, but the all the other components
30:03
that, you know, go into your overall cyber security
30:06
architecture that are not like your traditional.
30:09
I am pieces. Even though I do think some of
30:12
the parts and pieces are things like privileged access
30:14
management as well, So that's what comes to mind.
30:21
It kind of strikes me as like, really part of the zero trust
30:25
movement, right? Identities.
30:26
Such a core component of it, but it's not the only component.
30:29
Then there's much more to it as well.
30:31
Network, segmentation microsegmentation, things that
30:34
are yes identity but maybe tend to fall more into like networks
30:39
and network management that sort of thing.
30:40
But I see I see it as like you mentioned.
30:44
It's this fabric that stretches across a whole bunch of things.
30:48
I know there was a session I think around identity fabric for
30:51
example and we've had a conversation about that in the
30:53
past, with think it was Jerry Gable from Strata dot IO where
30:57
we talked through identity Fabrics but I see it as the
31:02
coordination and linking of multiple security Technologies
31:07
together rather than being run as silos.
31:11
And all we have are we have our IG a solution over here in, this
31:15
is what it does. And then over here, we have this
31:18
detection You know, response type thing that is working.
31:22
And then over there we've got some sort of vulnerability
31:25
scanner that is doing its own thing.
31:27
And I think the idea is to kind of pull things together, at
31:29
least. That's what I'm thinking, how
31:31
that works in the real world. I not my expertise, but at least
31:35
the coordination, if not direct linking of some of that stuff.
31:37
We've seen some, some of the vendors have alliances where,
31:40
you know, plays well with, you know, one Pam vendor plays well
31:43
with another IJ vendor who plays well with another axis
31:45
management, you know, Thunder like those sorts of scenarios.
31:48
I think that's what I think about, but that's one that I
31:51
picked that. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to
31:53
pop in on. I think that that whole idea of
31:56
like a of a security mesh is that there's not one product,
32:02
you just turned down and like, go you bought security for my
32:05
network. It would be great if that's the
32:07
way, there's case, maybe. Even like the conversation, we
32:10
had the other day about managing identity in the cloud.
32:15
It's not like you just take your treasure.
32:18
Your on-prem and provides 100% solution for this multi Club
32:23
environment. If it's one of the hardest
32:26
problems that our industry is trying to solve right now is how
32:29
to manage especially non-human accounts.
32:33
And up for, in the multi-cloud, you know, cloud-based,
32:38
infrastructure environment. There's not one product that you
32:42
just like I just bought. We just bought that product and
32:45
now we're good. Yeah.
32:46
Despite what vendors will tell you?
32:49
They're really good at solving specific issues but there is no
32:52
one thing to rule them all. Well, that's why I think, you
32:55
know, having like the, you know, we've always been big proponents
32:59
of vendor agnostic, acidity because still aren't a kind of.
33:03
Yeah, we always have been. We still are.
33:05
And I think that my motto is a product is not a strategy.
33:12
Yeah, yeah, we just wouldn't wear this product, and that's
33:15
our strategy. Now, you need to have a
33:17
strategy. Sure.
33:18
G is going to be people process and Technology.
33:22
Yeah. I mean that's couldn't say it
33:24
better myself. What you got for me?
33:26
Next, I got the next one for you is the session Monday, at 11:00
33:30
called connect business value and identity management.
33:35
How do you connect business value and identity management?
33:39
You can't, there's no value at all.
33:41
It's a totally just, you know, useless connecting business
33:44
value and I am well, I mean, I think, I think there's three
33:48
different Front buckets that I would put it into the first
33:51
obvious one, that might be out. There is risk reduction, there
33:54
is cost reduction, in addition to the risk and then I think
33:59
about user experience. Usually there is some benefit of
34:04
all 32 doing identity at least that's the Nirvana, right?
34:09
Not every identity investment is going to touch on all three
34:12
though. You might have a back-end.
34:14
Plumbing that is really nothing to do with the user experience
34:18
but it reduces your risk or reduces your cost.
34:21
Conversely might have something that is purely cosmetic, right?
34:25
It could be as simple as that. Hey, we need to like re you
34:27
know, rename our ad roles because they're written by
34:31
somebody. Itu who didn't, you know, label
34:34
them as business-friendly? That's purely cosmetic.
34:37
You already have the tools and stuff behind the scenes but
34:39
you're making it easier for people to use the service that
34:42
you've put and has Downstream effects easy to request.
34:45
Easy to recertify, for example, right?
34:47
Things like that. So I think of those three lenses
34:51
when I think about, whatever the name was you just mentioned
34:54
which I already forgot connecting business value and
34:56
identity management. That's right.
34:58
Hey yeah. I mean it's all about the return
35:00
on investment. And how you can show that.
35:03
And sometimes some things with identity management are are hard
35:06
to turn into kind of objective measures and turn and dollar
35:11
eyes the savings. Because I think, you know, I've
35:15
always kind of like for as long as I've been in it front into
35:19
the obstacle or the objection that we don't want to solve
35:26
dollar savings. Like, who can I fire another
35:29
words. I want to drop cost by Salary by
35:32
a head count and like these IT projects.
35:37
Don't always do that, right? But if you think about how I
35:39
teach has changed our efficiency and how much we can get done in
35:44
just the past 20 years, it would have never happened.
35:47
If we didn't make all these Investments over time and it is
35:50
an absolutely critically important.
35:51
If you were still running the same technology footprint that
35:54
you ran 20 years ago, you'd be out of business by now and so
36:00
you know return on Cement. I think is sometimes hard to
36:04
turn into a hard dollar analysis But ultimately that's what we're
36:08
often challenged to do. The only thing I would add to
36:11
kind of what you talked about because I think all those areas
36:13
can be dollarized but I think about the customer experience
36:17
where I usually see that turn into, hey, we can actually have
36:21
an impact on the business is by enabling, some kind of new
36:25
technology or new service, so digital transformation.
36:28
A lot of times are about improving the customer.
36:31
Various but maybe with the vision that you've set for hey
36:36
we're going to either do a best-of-breed digital
36:39
transformation where we're going to buy all the best of breed
36:43
applications that are going to deliver the services.
36:46
Our customer needs or if we're going to do a platform and we're
36:51
going to say you Salesforce and we're going to build all of our
36:54
applications in the community Cloud, their steps to have to be
36:58
taken from it identity. Access management standpoint.
37:01
Point to enable that and if you don't do those steps, you're
37:05
going to have a huge value on your hands.
37:07
Your customer serious is going to stink because it's not going
37:11
to be a cohesive experience from the from the user standpoint
37:15
where this usually the first time the first experience you
37:19
have with an application going through and registering and if
37:22
you don't use the application for a couple of months, you come
37:24
back and you forgotten your password and they want to run
37:28
you through a bunch of rigmarole to, you know, get logged.
37:31
The application that you haven't used in a few months, maybe you
37:34
just got to give up and move on to something else.
37:36
I mean, I had a situation like that recently, we're getting
37:40
back into an application that, you know, I went through the
37:43
whole ridge. First, I tried to log in,
37:46
because my phone remember to log in said, you know, don't know
37:49
this username password. Okay?
37:51
So then I go to try and register, we recognize that
37:53
username because they already have an account like I threw the
37:57
password reassure your man, what a What a pain in the neck?
38:01
Then you probably got like the new password?
38:03
Cannot be same as old password, what's?
38:06
Yeah. Yeah, that's like that great
38:07
meme, right? Yeah, exactly.
38:09
I think you bring up a good point the, the consumer that's
38:12
its it is absolutely true. Consumer side, definitely has on
38:16
the interface side, especially dollars and cents, that can be
38:19
attributed to how good the experience is Right abandoned
38:22
carts, those sorts of things, make it easy, make it easy for
38:26
people to consume your service or product or buy your product
38:29
or whatever. Be, that's true for the
38:31
Enterprise as well because people will find a way around
38:33
it. So treating identity, like, a
38:35
product makes all the world of sense to me, at least, you know,
38:39
as I put my program manager hat. Alright, let's do one more and
38:44
here's the one. I picked out for you, defining
38:47
the problems, the need for next-gen.
38:50
I am so that one more time, defining, the problem or
38:57
problems could be plural. The need for next-gen identity
39:02
and access management. Okay?
39:04
So I give you the hard ones by the way.
39:07
Yeah, you did. You really have the hard ones,
39:09
huh. So I think of like lash and I am
39:15
and I think there are a lot of companies that are still on Old
39:19
gen. I am systems where they haven't
39:22
moved to an IGA perspective. So, in other words, if you still
39:28
have the system where The idea is like we're going to start
39:31
here in the middle. We're going to provision access
39:34
from the middle to the applications and if you can't do
39:38
that, they're out of scope. That's different than the IGA
39:42
perspective which is that you know all this access exists in
39:46
our environment we need to pull it in and have one place to go
39:50
to see who has access to what. So, you know, there's a whole
39:55
set of use cases around just what these Main Line next gen
40:01
application to and really IG Asian on next gen.
40:04
But I do think there are, you know, there's that gen1 I am,
40:10
which is from the center out. Then there's IGA, which is kind
40:13
of courage in the next iteration might be something else.
40:17
I think where I see a lot of innovation in this space is to
40:22
two areas, really? It's around authentication,
40:27
identity verification. You know, being smarter about
40:32
authenticating and making sure that you are who you say you are
40:37
when you authenticate. I think the other area where
40:42
there's this next generation is around the cloud infrastructure.
40:45
I think that is like the seismic shift that's happening.
40:48
And I T, is the shift to Cloud infrastructure?
40:51
And I don't I know it sounds like, whoa, what a what a Maser
40:56
shatter you figured out like it was really coming up with
40:59
something. Jim yeah, yeah, well people are
41:01
but you know what? We haven't figured out for an
41:04
eye, a spectrum, especially the nonhuman accounts, and the human
41:08
accounts, we figured out a long time ago, they've got to be an
41:11
authoritative Source, the IGA system then you know Maps
41:17
accounts to identities and you're also going to have a like
41:22
a workflow system, whether it's your, you know, your servicenow
41:26
system, or your IG system, where you request You access then
41:30
you're going to pull back the access that exist in the
41:33
application comes to cycle and you have governance processes on
41:37
top of it for non-human accounts different ball game.
41:41
You have applications creating robot accounts, they
41:45
applications provision the access that they need.
41:48
So your developers are writing code to go and create accounts
41:53
so much different than what Some Humans.
41:56
It's it's seismic shift and Not only that, I think a lot of
42:01
people who are, you know, grew up or now like, 20, 30 years in
42:05
it, and are the cisos and things like that, they really
42:09
understood networks and how servers work and all that is
42:13
Shades, right? So if they haven't gone through
42:15
the education, to kind of like understand all this automation
42:18
that's happening. And containers, instead of
42:20
servers, like, it's very hard to conceptualize.
42:24
Like, how do I actually take this control framework?
42:29
That grew And I understood and apply it to this new.
42:33
It world, that is totally different.
42:36
Yeah, those are all really good points.
42:37
I think the only thing I'll add to it, as I think the Next
42:40
Generation has to be easier, whatever it is.
42:43
You just needs to be easier to get into place, to really lower
42:48
the cost of ownership. The Investments needed etcetera,
42:51
to get things through up and running these, let's not kid
42:54
ourselves, identity is still expensive.
42:55
It's still a typically, an Enterprise Improvement.
42:59
Act of some sort, you know, it could be you know, a few
43:02
thousand dollars. It could be a few million
43:04
dollars Droid to kind of pens what you're tackling but I think
43:06
it just needs to get easier over all and I totally agree in the
43:10
cloud stuff. All those companies over the
43:12
last 20 years is, oh yeah, we're we want to be Cloud first.
43:16
It's taken decades to really realize that I'm seeing a lot
43:21
more companies that I'm talking with that are 100% Cloud.
43:24
They don't have an on-prem footprint and I think that is
43:28
the future of Newer organizations.
43:30
I think, you know though the older organizations are still in
43:34
the process of migrating so they'll be in this hybrid mode
43:37
for a while, but occasionally still come across, you know,
43:40
hey, we've got local exchange and local lady, and we're happy
43:43
with that. Okay.
43:44
Cool. Right.
43:45
I mean, there's gonna be a place for that as well, but those are,
43:47
I feel like are a Dying Breed so the cloud is definitely consumed
43:50
sort of everything you and I've definitely work for the clients
43:54
or the last couple years where it's like we've got a DFS and we
43:58
just don't see a point of getting I'm rid of PDF estimate,
44:00
it works. We're gonna upgrade a DFS, we
44:02
like a DFS. Yeah, it works.
44:05
Why you get rid of it leaving? Microsoft doesn't pushing a DFS,
44:09
that's why but if it works, why replace it, there is no business
44:13
justification for it other than its not strategic at some point,
44:18
but if it works, it works, you know, that is this, it is what
44:21
it is. All right, let's start to wrap
44:24
up. I came up with a variety of
44:26
stupid lighter and lighter note to end on.
44:28
So we're done. Talking about I am right now.
44:30
Anybody who's took tuned in for? I am talk right on.
44:35
Now we're about to get a little bit stupid but that's this is
44:37
the fun part for Jim and I I'm going to pick the first one that
44:42
we that I want to go with is Jim.
44:46
This is a question for you and I will be happy to answer it as
44:49
well, but is cereal soup. Now I'm going to Define cereal
44:55
as some sort of, you know, breakfast, we usually based
45:01
product, think Corn, Flakes, Frosted Flakes.
45:06
Try to think what else is out there?
45:08
Frosted mini-wheats. Write these things that these
45:10
food items that come packaged in boxes that you typically dumped
45:14
into a bowl and then you pour some milk over it and then you
45:18
eat it with a spoon. So, With that little bit of
45:22
breather for you to think about it.
45:23
Is cereal soup. Absolutely not absolutely not
45:30
and I'm going to look at I know your next question would be well
45:34
how do you define soup? Then I don't know.
45:38
Soup is like it could be a bisque.
45:41
It could be some broth with some stuff in it, which kind of
45:46
sounds like, well, Sue, blimey cereals, just like milk with
45:50
some stuff in it, right? So it's pretty much the same
45:53
thing, but nobody ever says A, you know that Bowl of Cherries
46:00
over there? Could you pass me that bowl of
46:02
soup? If somebody said that, you would
46:05
think that there were crazy, they lost their mind, nobody
46:09
tells a bowl of cereal soup. So no, it's not the same thing.
46:13
So you've got kids when they're having you should do that.
46:15
The next time you're having cereal with your kids at The
46:19
Breakfast, Table is the ideal, like, you know, family
46:23
experience might look like ask for, ask them to pass the bowl
46:26
of soup and see. Kind of work.
46:27
They give you Jeff Mike is already think of crazy.
46:32
I mean they're you know the older they get the crazier, the
46:34
think I am, if I do that, I said Sarah growing to be. 100% sure
46:38
that I've lost my mind. Well that is absolutely true.
46:41
I you know, to what are you think is cereal soup?
46:45
I could see why you would make the argument that it is.
46:48
But of course, being the nerd I am, is okay.
46:50
Well, how do we Define soup? And if you look at the
46:54
dictionary, it's Clear liquid food.
46:59
But it contains either like meat fish or vegetable stock.
47:04
Consume can be hot or cold, right?
47:06
You can have like a gazpacho or you can have a nice hearty stew,
47:10
right? Or whatever that might look
47:11
like. But I think that's the dividing
47:13
line. Now, what would really mess with
47:16
people is if like, what do you put on top of your cornflakes
47:19
sausage? Did it just become a soup,
47:22
right? I mean, that's a ridiculous
47:24
comment, at least for me, maybe somebody eats, you know, sorry
47:26
to all the soft. Jean cornflakes crowd.
47:28
We're not going to get sponsored by those people, but, you know,
47:31
if that's the definition that it has meat fish or a vegetable
47:35
stock, then, you know, cereal is not a soup, but I can certainly
47:41
see why the argument there. I think it's, I think it was a
47:43
stupid question, but we've it is now caused us to spend.
47:47
I think 15 or 20 minutes both as part of this recording and maybe
47:50
even talking about it beforehand.
47:52
Whether or not it was, it is, in fact a suit.
47:55
Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you take Cheerios, You put bananas on,
48:00
does it make a soup the answers, of course not.
48:03
Nobody would say, oh wow, you just heard your truce in the
48:06
soup because you put it out as on.
48:09
Oh, he fancy. So, what is your favorite cereal
48:13
and what's your favorite soup? You know, I like Frosted Flakes
48:19
and I like frosted mini-wheats. Those are my to go to, some
48:23
usually bouncing between those two.
48:24
I have two boxes of my house right now.
48:27
And I will go back and forth between those two soup wise, you
48:32
know, I like a good potato soup. I think that's good or maybe
48:36
like a cream of chicken. No mushrooms because mushrooms
48:40
are gross, but those are my two favorite soups and two favorite
48:43
cereals? What about you?
48:45
Surreal like healthy cereal and materials guy, but if Health was
48:51
not a factor he count, chocula, this gives this gives you some
48:55
insight into the way that we answered our It's I did not even
48:58
consider the health, ramifications of what I'm
49:00
eating, okay? From a soups and point I don't
49:05
like healthy soup so it's there. What is a healthy soup?
49:09
I think you know better social assault now.
49:12
I mean I mean I guess if she's already like a broth or
49:15
something, you're so high in sodium.
49:18
A lot of these things I don't worry about so do I don't care.
49:21
I'll eat it. I love you.
49:22
That's nothing like what is healthy?
49:25
You know, two people are not necessarily going to create
49:27
what's healthy like to me, salt doesn't matter.
49:29
I can drink water and wash the sold out anyway.
49:35
So favorite soups. I have to broccoli shutters
49:38
probably my number one, but that's more common, right?
49:43
So, if you get a good broccoli cheddar soup, with some
49:46
sourdough bread, I mean there's nothing better but then a good
49:52
lobster bisque with like Monks of lobster meat?
49:56
Wow. Yeah.
49:58
My jam now that's not for me. I don't know.
50:01
It is about Seafood. I only like shrimp pretty much
50:03
but warm soup. Bisque just, doesn't it?
50:08
Just doesn't do it for me? Yeah, so I forgot to tell you
50:14
the other one of my other favorite things about Vegas is
50:16
the buffets their Buffet at the Cosmopolitan, which is cooking
50:23
spoon. Yeah.
50:24
Oh and then there's another another one at Caesar's Palace.
50:28
The Caesar one is rigged. I was like the bacchanal I think
50:31
yeah. The boxing all.
50:32
It's like 75 bucks a person. I think it's the best one.
50:35
It's they have the best buffet. So if you're looking for dining
50:39
suggestions and you don't care about your waistline, go check
50:42
out the bacchanal Shameless plug for for food, you could always
50:47
die when you get home. Exactly a vacation.
50:50
You're in Vegas, right? Might as well live it up.
50:53
Alright, let's go ahead. For this week.
50:56
Wow, 53 minutes. As I'm looking at the clock, who
50:59
know who would have thought that a Gartner preview could last
51:01
that long. But here we are, we are looking
51:04
forward to seeing folks ought to Gartner.
51:05
If you're listening to this and you're Garner again, please
51:07
don't hesitate to come up fist bump, you know, leg shake,
51:11
whatever, whatever the right greeting is that you feel
51:13
comfortable with. We're happy to do it.
51:15
And like I said, if you are interested in attending a taping
51:19
of a of a podcast or whatever, you know hit us up on LinkedIn,
51:23
will try to see what we can. Do to make that happen.
51:25
But in the meantime, we'll go ahead and wrap it up for this
51:27
week. You can find us on the web
51:29
identity at the center.com. We're on Twitter at IDC podcast
51:33
which I did tweet today. That we would be out there.
51:36
What has four thumbs and is going to Gartner these guys.
51:39
So we'll see folks out there next week and that's pretty much
51:44
it. So we'll have to leave it there.
51:45
Thanks everyone for listening, and we'll talk with everyone in
51:48
the next one. Thanks for listening to.
51:54
Identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
51:57
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
52:00
at the center.com.