Latest / The Kulturecast / The Name of the Rose (1986) — "Have you ever known a place where God would have felt at home?"

Transcript

The Name of the Rose (1986) — "Have you ever known a place where God would have felt at home?" · The Kulturecast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Weary way.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Within these walls. Men come to seek God. He has
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: come to seek a killer. We found the body that
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: are being mutilated underlay. We know which was.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Which was found closed.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: A man of reason in a world of blind faith.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, small blood here you mean that he quitted suicide
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: elementary and a crime.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: There could not be suppressed in states.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: He did not write with his time.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: By result, I don't like this place. I find it
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: more stimulating.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Should we tell him.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: No, I am most crudicious in the library for myself.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: May I do so?
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: But what if you should learn it of his own
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: accorde written with lemon juice.
• 1:39
  Speaker 6: Hi, who's that you're overestimates talents?
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: This one I graduate did not commit suicide. When he
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: is challenged by a man of cruelty and power, the
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: hunter becomes the hunted brother.
• 1:55
  Speaker 6: I did you please?
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: The matter has occurred to the uttermost granity.
• 2:03
  Speaker 7: Hack someone else not chosen to look in the wrong direction.
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: Several men of God might still be with us all.
• 2:09
  Speaker 8: Along two week up debts here, and they also will
• 2:13
  Speaker 8: have black and fringers and black and town. This time
• 2:18
  Speaker 8: is back, just as brother William for toold.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, I was right in you just as I too
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: would have known had I been the murderer.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: You go, Gore, lock them up.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: One final murder has been playing.
• 2:32
  Speaker 9: Pasta pasta how'll we get out?
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: What's some difficulty?
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And it's his Sean Connery f Murray Abraham The Name.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Of the Rose, A story of Unholy Murder.
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Culture Cast. I am
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: your host, christ Ashu, and I'm joined by my two
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: good friends. All the way from Richard adams Erotic Bookshelf,
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: a soon coming podcast from weirding Way Media. Now he's
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: just from Richard Addams's Paranormal Bookshelf, a podcast you can't
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: listen to on weirding Way Media. You can listen to
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: it over at Richard Haddam's Paranormal Bookshelf. Your friend of
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: mine Richard HadAM.
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: Hey, oh I'm sorry, hang on a second. I have
• 3:11
  Speaker 8: to put on my lipstick so that I can look
• 3:14
  Speaker 8: like Christian Slater.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: And all the way from the Projection Booth he programmed
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: this entire month because it's Mike White, May your friend
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: and mine, Mike White.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: But did you know that when it's noose, my eyes
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: become large and the light that you shine can be
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: seen oh sorry, this is the Name of the Rose,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: not a Kiss from the Rose. God damn it. I
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: was fucking that up.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: It was supposed to be Seal Connery, not Sean Connery,
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: and I was thoroughly disappointed.
• 3:44
  Speaker 8: One might say, yes, by the way, what a good
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: voice Mike.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: Mike likes to sing. I mean, Mike sings time on
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: this show.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Well, you guys remember my my famous songs for all
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: the rank I'm bond you know? Ooh, no pussy.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: I thought that was yeah, yeah, oh a pussy, uh
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: two pussy.
• 4:10
  Speaker 9: I do remember that.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, o amos. It's charting on Spotify right now.
• 4:15
  Speaker 9: I wish it was.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, if you are listening to this episode, then you
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: know what we're gonna be talking about. But if you
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: randomly found it on the internet because someone put it
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: in front of you, we're gonna be talking about a
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: little film from nineteen eighty six based on a novel
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: by Umberto Echo that we have covered on this show before.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: That film is the Name of the Rose, and we
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: will be replaying the interview I did with Ilia Baskin,
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: probably like.
• 4:37
  Speaker 9: A decade ago at this point.
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: But yeah, on this episode, we're gonna be talking about
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: nineteen eighty six is the name of the Rose. So
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: the film is directed by Jean Jacques, Jean Jacques Annad
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: and it's written by well a whole host of people,
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: Andrew Berkin, Gerard Brock, Howard Franklin, and Lain Godard. It
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: is based on the novel of the same name by
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: Umberto Echo. I would say, probably his most famous novel
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: as an author, at least at the time.
• 5:01
  Speaker 9: I think for most people it still is.
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: And the film stars Sean Connery as Sherlock Holmes, I
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: mean as William of Baskerville, totally not Sherlock Holmes, who
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: goes to a North Italian monastery to investigate a crime
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: that has possible theological implications. And like Richard mentioned, Christian
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Slater's there. And also I think the guy who killed
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: Mozart is.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: In there, yes, f Mariray Abraham, Yes, of course. Well,
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: even speaking of ranking on Bond, we've got tracks in here.
• 5:33
  Speaker 8: That's right, And speaking of good where I recognize that guy.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: And speaking of the Chasing Chevy Chase podcast, William Hickey's
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: in here.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: Oh well, that's right, yeah, No, he is.
• 5:48
  Speaker 6: Lessing.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: I love how ugly this cast is, and I mean
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: that with the greatest affection in the world. These guys
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: have lived lives and their faces are man they tell stories.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: That's great.
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So, Richard, I am actually going to kick it
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: to you first, even though Mike did program the month.
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: Since you are our guest, I would love to hear
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: your thoughts on the name of the Rose.
• 6:16
  Speaker 8: I have never seen the movie before. Was very familiar
• 6:20
  Speaker 8: with Umberto Echo. He had a real moment in the
• 6:24
  Speaker 8: eighties between this and focost Pendulum as a sort of
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: weird publishing phenomenon.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: For some reason, Dan Brown what he kind of predated
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: Dan Brown as like historical even though his were set
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: in the past. But like Dan Brown owed so much
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: to like, Oh, we're going to explore history and show
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you how it affects today. Well, it's really weird.
• 6:49
  Speaker 8: I mean, you know, Dan Brown's books were written to
• 6:52
  Speaker 8: be bestsellers. I mean they were pop fiction. Umberto Echo.
• 6:57
  Speaker 8: My impression is that he was more of a philosopher
• 7:02
  Speaker 8: academician who decided to sort of try his hand at
• 7:08
  Speaker 8: quote unquote popular fiction.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: By the way, writing.
• 7:10
  Speaker 8: An Italian, he's not an American writer. His books were
• 7:14
  Speaker 8: translated and became international bestsellers. In many languages. But but
• 7:20
  Speaker 8: his books were very, very preoccupied with philosophy and theology
• 7:25
  Speaker 8: and history and were not considered easy reads at all.
• 7:30
  Speaker 8: The fact that this got made into a movie, I
• 7:35
  Speaker 8: think caused a lot of people who were quote unquote
• 7:38
  Speaker 8: fans of his and fans of who he was and
• 7:41
  Speaker 8: what he was really doing, and who sort of you know,
• 7:44
  Speaker 8: tried to overlook the fact that he was trying to
• 7:46
  Speaker 8: be entertaining.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Were alarmed that Hollywood was making this movie.
• 7:50
  Speaker 8: And I think the book was very difficult to translate,
• 7:53
  Speaker 8: to the degree to which not only were four people
• 7:57
  Speaker 8: involved in the screenplay, but the film was referred to
• 8:01
  Speaker 8: as a palumpsest of umberto echoes the name of the Rose,
• 8:07
  Speaker 8: which strikes me as odd and absolutely singular in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 8: history of film credits.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: Thank you for pointing that out, by the way, because
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: if you didn't, I'm sure one of us was going
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: to I have forgot that the word existed. Aside from
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: the last time I probably watched this movie and looked
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: it up.
• 8:24
  Speaker 8: And I did not research. I didn't go on, you know,
• 8:27
  Speaker 8: any of the various sights to find out about a
• 8:30
  Speaker 8: thing that perhaps should have. But I decided just to
• 8:32
  Speaker 8: bring a viewer's perspective to this. All of which having
• 8:36
  Speaker 8: been said, I found the movie to be somewhat difficult
• 8:44
  Speaker 8: to watch. It was hard for me to sort of
• 8:48
  Speaker 8: lock in to what it's overall kind of esthetic or
• 8:53
  Speaker 8: point or point of view was. It took me pretty
• 8:58
  Speaker 8: much until the end to sort of get the idea
• 9:01
  Speaker 8: of the movie, which I think is featuring a character
• 9:05
  Speaker 8: William of Baskerville, who kind of represents a more intellectual Jesuit,
• 9:12
  Speaker 8: if you will, arm of Catholicism, and featuring a story
• 9:19
  Speaker 8: that takes place at a time when Catholicism is perhaps changing,
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: and how does a modern thinker at that time thirteen
• 9:29
  Speaker 8: seventy two, I think, how does he Sean Connery fit
• 9:33
  Speaker 8: in to this large institution that is currently conducting the
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: Inquisition and is perhaps the most powerful religion on earth
• 9:43
  Speaker 8: at this point, but we have a modern thinker. The
• 9:47
  Speaker 8: one really cool thing they did, and I don't know
• 9:49
  Speaker 8: if the book did this, is they overtly make Sean
• 9:52
  Speaker 8: Connery's character a Sherlock Holmes stand in. He has a
• 9:57
  Speaker 8: young Watson played by Christian sla He signals the audience
• 10:03
  Speaker 8: early on by using the phrase elementary, invoking the name
• 10:08
  Speaker 8: Baskerville puts us in the mind of Sherlock Holmes, so
• 10:13
  Speaker 8: now we get it. Smart, smart guy who maybe isn't
• 10:17
  Speaker 8: swayed by superstition, is in a very superstitious place trying
• 10:23
  Speaker 8: to solve crimes. That's awesome movie. I'm not sure it's
• 10:28
  Speaker 8: so awesome.
• 10:28
  Speaker 9: What about you, Mike Well?
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: I had seen this one before years ago. It was
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: probably when it was first out on VHS, so like
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: eighty seven, eighty eight, something like that. I never saw
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: this at the movie theater. Love the Drew Strewsen poster,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: which kind of predates The Last Crusade where we've got
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: another great poster image of Sean Connery.
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: I wish everyone could see Richard redoing the poster stance
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: of Sean Connery, which doesn't match the tone of the movie,
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: by the way.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: It really doesn't know.
• 11:03
  Speaker 8: All the characters along the side pointing at each other
• 11:06
  Speaker 8: and looking weird like weird muppets.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: It does have a very Muppet movie feel to it,
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: because I think Strusan did the Muppet Movie poster as well, right,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I this might have been my first time
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: seeing Ron Perlman in a movie. I don't think I
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: had seen him before this, and I kind of fell
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: in love with him in this movie. Yeah, I also
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: think that it's not one hundred percent successful. I think
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: towards the end it starts to get a little muddled.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: It is interesting, this whole idea that you're talking about, Richard,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: with the kind of two different ways to approach Catholicism
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: approach religion. One where it's more William of Baskerville, where
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: he's much more of a humanist and a secular type
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: of person. He's okay with science, he's okay with humor,
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: and humor becomes basically the undoing of this movie. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: then the other side of it is the f Mariray Abraham,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: you know, and basically the circus comes to town when
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: he enters into the film, and it's all of the
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: shit of the Inquisition and just looking for you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: demon demonic influences, demonic marks. I mean, it's basically a
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: witch hunt at that point. And of course, you know,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: also talking about the different sects of the religion and
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: the whole thing of where Ron Perlman's character, you know,
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: the group that he belonged to, and I love how
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: he you know, speaks when he's like I didn't recognize
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: the language and which one was that He's like all
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: of them, you know, the way that he would bop
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: around between all of the different languages, especially that kind
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: of gut or Italian that he's speaking. I really enjoy
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: this movie. I know that it's not the best movie
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: in the world, but I do have a good time
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: with it. I also grew up watching a lot of
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: young Sherlock Holmes, so this definitely felt akin to that
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: because of these things you're saying with the you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: the opening narration where I've got the older man who's
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: looking back at his life and talking about you know,
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: it took me until just recently to realize that the
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: Rose is the woman and he never did know her
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: name kind of thing. And it's like, oh, okay, now
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I finally have the title, because I never really got
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: the title until probably what a week ago.
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it's very clearly supposed to be what is a
• 13:35
  Speaker 8: fairly common modern reflection on religion. In other words, you know,
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: is religion the institution or is it something intensely personal
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: that has more to do with, you know, perhaps following
• 13:52
  Speaker 8: Jesus's more empathetic and compassionate impulses what Mike was talking about,
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: this sort of small sect within Christianity that exists within
• 14:04
  Speaker 8: this movie were a group of people who believed that
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: poverty was the main quality of Jesus, and that Jesus
• 14:12
  Speaker 8: was all about not having material stuff. It's so interesting
• 14:16
  Speaker 8: that there's done in the eighties when when the entire
• 14:19
  Speaker 8: American culture was so much about material acquisition, I mean,
• 14:24
  Speaker 8: dead center in the Reagan era of money and greed
• 14:30
  Speaker 8: is good and rampant capitalism, I mean, just so far
• 14:35
  Speaker 8: away from any human, truly Christian viewpoint you could ever have.
• 14:41
  Speaker 8: And then this movie ultimately is about that because when
• 14:44
  Speaker 8: f Murray Abraham comes in as a representative of the Inquisition,
• 14:48
  Speaker 8: and you even have a representative of the Pope show up,
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: they're very much more interested in power, control, money, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: also obedience. Are not interested in offshoot opinions, you know,
• 15:04
  Speaker 8: and they really don't want to hear about poverty because
• 15:07
  Speaker 8: that works exactly against what the structure of the church
• 15:10
  Speaker 8: at that point is trying to do, which is a
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: mass power. Now why are they trying to do a
• 15:15
  Speaker 8: mass power?
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: Well, to save more souls.
• 15:18
  Speaker 8: So you see, it all works out very well for
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: them anyway. So we very quickly realize once this specter
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: is raised. By the way, about halfway through the film,
• 15:28
  Speaker 8: that's when you begin to realize that, oh, Sean Connery
• 15:30
  Speaker 8: might be in some trouble. For the first hour of
• 15:32
  Speaker 8: the film, Sean Connery is just kind of bopping around
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: the abbey as bodies turn up, and you know, we
• 15:40
  Speaker 8: feel like we're kind of watching an episode of Colombo
• 15:42
  Speaker 8: from seven hundred years.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Ago, and we're not all that worried.
• 15:46
  Speaker 8: It's really the second half of the film where a
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: lot of these themes and the real danger that he's
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: in becomes obvious.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Well, the other thing it's talking about too, for me
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: is sexuality and sensuality and just what is allowed and
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: what's not. I mean, I'm surprised that Christian Slater is
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: allowed to continue his monk hood after he has his dalliance.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: And then you've got William Hickey, who just the way
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: he's talking about that statue of Mary is like, look
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: at the bres uh and that he's petting Christian Slater's head,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: and I'm just like, Okay, I see where William Hickey
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: wants to go with this. And you know, people, I
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: don't know if they they don't realize that we used
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: to make jokes in the eighties and the seventies about priests,
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: not just in the nineties and two thousands when a
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: lot of this stuff started to come out in the news. No,
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: we always knew the priests were perverts and always knew
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: about this stuff. So this right here is a pretty
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: prime example. But god, yeah, I've been talking about the poverty.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: I love that image of the castle door opening up
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: and all those bones falling out, feeding feeding quote unquote
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: the people below, and just the way that they scrabble
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: to get all those scraps, and they're probably ransom. I mean,
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: you can. The thing I like about this movie so
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: much is you can practically smell this film. Not everybody
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: is dirty, like Christian Slater and Sean Conry are relatively
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: well kept through this whole thing, but so many of
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: the other people, so many locations, who're just like, oh man,
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: I can smell the ransom straw that they're probably stepping on.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: I can see the dirt on their people's fingernails. And
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: like I said at the very beginning, just how incredibly
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: craggy these faces are. And I hear that the director
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: was just like I want these faces. I want these
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: incredibly and I'll say it ugly faces. I mean, these
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: people are ugly in a beautiful way. And I'm surprised
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: that the what was this named Daniel emil Fork from
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: like the City of Lost Children. I'm surprised he's not
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: in this movie because he would fit in unless he
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: couldn't get the fringe. But I'm sure they could have
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: put a little wig on him because everybody has their
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: head shaved. It's nice seeing Sean Connery not wearing a
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: piece in this, which was kind of cool. And yeah,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: and then he was a little Christian Slater and like
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Christian Slater was only seventeen when he made this movie. Apparently,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: like people are now, oh my god, he was under
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: seventeen and he's shown having sex with this woman. Get
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: over yourself. It was nineteen eighty six. It's so funny.
• 18:27
  Speaker 8: When they first show up, I'm like, because Susan and
• 18:30
  Speaker 8: I watch it together and I'm like, Okay, that's Sean Connery.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Who's the chick.
• 18:35
  Speaker 8: She's like, that's Christian Slater, Like who's Christie Slater? Christian
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: sla I'm like, that's Chris. And then I look and
• 18:44
  Speaker 8: here's The thing about Christopher Slater in this film, he
• 18:46
  Speaker 8: does look like the most androgynous little boy, and clearly
• 18:51
  Speaker 8: he's a teenager, but literally every shot, every time you
• 18:56
  Speaker 8: see his face, his mouth is open.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Like this and very sensual performance.
• 19:01
  Speaker 8: Yes, and he's got this lipstick on, and You're just like,
• 19:04
  Speaker 8: this kid doesn't stand a chance in this Abby.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: This is like, this guy is Abby bait. Yeah, that bald,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: very pale, fatter gentleman just as always given him the
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: eye and I'm like, oh, good lord.
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like Deliverance in Northern Italy in thirteen seventy two, Chris,
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: what'd you think of this movie?
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: So I went and looked before we started recording, and
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: I talked about this movie eleven years ago now eleven
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: twenty fifteen. So in the early years of knowing Mike
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: White August tenth of twenty fifteen. I think Mike and
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: I had known each other for six months at the time,
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: which you know now she's many moons later. I went
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: back and just pursed through my episode, and I mean,
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: my take then is not too dissimilar now in a
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: lot of ways, I think it's a little bit more
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: nuanced in terms of how I say it, but I
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: think I kind of agree with both of y'all. At
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: the same time. I agree with Richard. I find this
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: movie a tad hard to watch at times because it
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: seems unfocused in its telling of the narrative and it
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: doesn't necessarily tell the narrative in a way that I
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: think is the most easy to understand. But at the
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: same time, to Mike's point, I love the look of
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: the movie. I love the feel of the movie. I
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: love the way everybody looks. I love how you took
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: Ron Perlman, a guy who looks very unique, and you
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: made him look uglier than humanly possible, which is, you know,
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: kudos to you guys for that. I mean, taking someone
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: who's already kind of, you know, unique looking, and pushing
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: his kind of look further than that. So I like
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: the look of the movie. I love the feel of
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: the movie, but like the plot of the movie. It
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: the book has some things that I feel like the
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: movie didn't do intentionally, because the book talks about the
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: characters that they show up and are already murdered. It
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: turns out they were having like a gay threesome with
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: the three of them, so there was like homosexual implications
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: in the book of things going on, less implications and
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: more just like this is.
• 21:09
  Speaker 9: What was going on.
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: So the movie kind of pulls some of that out
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: of out of the narrative, which I'm not a huge
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: fan of, because I think that would like we've already
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: alluded to a little bit like lean further into the
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: things that we know are going on. This film wasn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: made in a vacuum. I mean, it's being made in
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: eighty six, So, like you mentioned, Mike, people already know
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: these things. People are already making jokes about these things.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: People are already understand that this is possibly part of
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: what's going on with the church, So why remove that
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: from the film is so kind of strange to me.
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: And I'm assuming it's a choice that one of the
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: four one of the four screenwriters involved in the film.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: And I'm sure Richard, you can speak to you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: more film, you know, more screenwriters on a project, the better, right, Uh,
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: more cooks in the kitchen is never a bet. This
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: is too salty, No, it's too peppery, le it's none
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: of those things like oh my god, no, just no,
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: oh no.
• 22:00
  Speaker 9: And that's maybe kind of my.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Big takeaway this time from watching the movie is the
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: four screenwriters involved. This film definitely feels like a film
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: that had four screenwriters involved, because it does feel like
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: it's being pulled not in two directions, but kind of three,
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: or maybe even apropos it may be being pulled in
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: four different directions by four different people, each trying to
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: get something different out of a story that, to both
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: of your points on the page, is a very rich,
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: deep novel that has a lot more to say than
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: I think the movie does effectively say. And I think
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: the movie tries harder than you might think it would
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: in terms of having something to say. But I don't
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: think there's a reason in adapting this source material if
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: you're not gonna have something to say. And that's for me.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: The issue is like it just kind of removes some
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: of the meaning from the book. And I'm dismayed by
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: that because I enjoy this. I enjoy the feel of
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: this movie probably the most, like just the world in
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: setting that it's put in. I'm a huge fan of
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: cad Fail, which is another Franciscan Friar solving mysteries. It's
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: pretty much just this with Derek Jacoby. If you like that,
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: cool go check that out. It was on like PBS
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: Mystery Hour. I think I don't know if either one
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: of you have seen it, but it's really well done.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: But it's very similar to this. It's Derek Jacoby playing
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: a Franciscan monk who is brought in to solve mysteries.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: He's literally just a monk Sherlock Holm, which is what
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: this movie kind of is. The book isn't so much
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: that in.
• 23:30
  Speaker 9: A lot of ways, I think is kind of my point.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that there was a twenty nineteen mini
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: series with Ruper Everett and John Tuturo Taturo playing the
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Baskerville character, and it keeps saying when I look at
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: it on Wikipedia, oh it's on RAI, And I'm like,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: I have no fucking idea what that is, but I
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: think it's available on Prime now.
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: So a name of the Rose, Yeah it was.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: It was made for Italian like public, their public Broadcasting,
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: their RAI is their PB was Was.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: It Italian language? Not what those actors?
• 24:04
  Speaker 9: No, I think it was English.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: I mean as much as this has like English and
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: Italian in it, the thing that's interesting is, and I
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: read that, why would you cast John tutorro like, he's
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: not Italian, He's English, like the characters meant to be English,
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: So why are you casting an Italian actor like.
• 24:19
  Speaker 8: Or if you cast him, cast him to be one
• 24:21
  Speaker 8: of the weird looking guys.
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: Right, He's got that down pat.
• 24:24
  Speaker 8: So here's here's what I think happened. I think the
• 24:29
  Speaker 8: book is cascidly a mystery. And again, talking as a
• 24:34
  Speaker 8: guy who has not read the book, I think it's
• 24:36
  Speaker 8: a It's it's like, I'm going to call this a mystery,
• 24:40
  Speaker 8: and there will be a mystery, and there will be
• 24:42
  Speaker 8: murders and there will be a solution. But mostly I
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: want to talk about this time and history and a
• 24:49
  Speaker 8: lot of ideas, uh, some of them very obscure. But
• 24:55
  Speaker 8: but I can tell a lot of stories here. I
• 24:57
  Speaker 8: mean I can tell a story about about the pull
• 25:00
  Speaker 8: of sensuality and the poll of sexual desire among people
• 25:06
  Speaker 8: who are supposed to be living a celibate life, because
• 25:08
  Speaker 8: that does become a part of this story, and that's
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: that's sort of the Christian Slater part of the story.
• 25:14
  Speaker 8: And his relationship with a peasant woman from the village
• 25:18
  Speaker 8: who he has sex with, but then because he's very young,
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: is also sort of like oh, I'm these emotions and
• 25:26
  Speaker 8: these feelings are so strong. I think, I think I'm
• 25:29
  Speaker 8: really interested in the plight of these people who are
• 25:32
  Speaker 8: living in poverty. But why is that so frowned upon
• 25:36
  Speaker 8: among these men of religion? I thought that was the
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: whole point, And of course Baskerville. Baskerville has a very
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: interesting background that has to do with, you know, do
• 25:48
  Speaker 8: you basically betray yourself and or your beliefs to save
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: your own skin when you're living in a you know,
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: a context, a community, a time where your life might
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: depend on just lying and going along with things. And
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: in his background, he did that. He figured out the
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: solution to a crime. But because the church hierarchy wanted
• 26:18
  Speaker 8: an innocent man to die for that crime, an innocent
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: man died. And when they came to William and said
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: do you agree with this decision? He said yes because
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: he knew that if he did not agree, he would
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: be next. Which is a wonderful context within which to
• 26:33
  Speaker 8: plays this story, because the question becomes what's he going
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: to do now when when this becomes an issue? And
• 26:39
  Speaker 8: it becomes an issue right around the same time in
• 26:40
  Speaker 8: the story, So now you're like, oh, so this is
• 26:43
  Speaker 8: really about this is like McCarthyism, and you know so
• 26:47
  Speaker 8: many moments in history where it's like, do you throw
• 26:50
  Speaker 8: it all away for honor knowing that you're really throwing
• 26:54
  Speaker 8: everything away, including your life? And how far is he
• 26:57
  Speaker 8: going to take his devotion to truth and intellectual you know, honesty.
• 27:03
  Speaker 8: What's strange is the is the mechanism of the plot.
• 27:09
  Speaker 8: I'm still not clear on who the murderer.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Was killing and why.
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: Like, I know who he was killing. The people were dying,
• 27:18
  Speaker 8: we see the victims, but I'm very unclear. Had something
• 27:21
  Speaker 8: to do with an addition of Aristotle's Poetics the second volume,
• 27:26
  Speaker 8: and had something to do with the notion of humor
• 27:29
  Speaker 8: and whether humor is against God or for God. But
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: why this guy was killing people, I don't.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Know, do you guys know? Not exactly sure what his
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: motive is. But basically, anybody who reads this book, this
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: particular volume, which does have a lot of humor in it,
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: that seems to be killing people. It's very much like
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: that muddy Python skit of the joke that they used
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: in World War two to bring down Hitler, you know,
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: and Hitler came back with his wartime joke, My dog
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: had knows how does it smell awful? That's great? Yeah,
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: but no, wait a second, but I'm asking you.
• 28:06
  Speaker 8: Is he murdering people who have read the book because
• 28:09
  Speaker 8: he's afraid the book has corrupted them?
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: That's what I feel like, people who have read the book.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: Because they've read the book, he doesn't know what is done.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: I think it's just the act of reading the book
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: is enough for him to kill them, because he poisoned
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: the pages of the book. So it's just the reading.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: I guess it's the in the the parting of knowledge
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: onto oneself is enough, which I think is even more
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: kind of dastardly. It's not even that you're practicing anything.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: It's just that the book.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Read the book, you die.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, read the book, you die because you had to
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: touch the pages to turn the pages, and at the
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: time you're licking your finger to turn the pages. There's
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: no proof of anything going on. There's no proof that
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: they've gone and done anything with the information. It's just
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: the having of the information in this case is enough.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: That's brilliant.
• 28:54
  Speaker 8: That's brilliant because reading is associated with with the acquisition
• 28:59
  Speaker 8: of not knowledge, which at this point is considered very
• 29:03
  Speaker 8: threatening to the church. So the fact that the very
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: intake it's like the eating the apple of knowledge, you know,
• 29:10
  Speaker 8: from the Tree of Marriage. It's like, that's exactly what
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: the Okay, that's brilliant. God, am I gonna ever read
• 29:16
  Speaker 8: this fucking book anyway? But then why is there But
• 29:19
  Speaker 8: is there a guy who's like giving the book to
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: be like to tempt like is there any criminal or
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: is it just people reading the book and dying because
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: they it's the it's.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: The old blind guy. He's the one who's so anti humor.
• 29:32
  Speaker 8: To people so that they'll die tests them.
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: I think it's just in a library.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: It's just there and poisoned, waiting for anyone to find.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: And it just happens that there is a conversation that
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: is now happening amongst people where more people are being
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: pushed in the direction of going and reading. So I mean,
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: to the point of the blind monk who's killing people,
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: that knowledge is spreading even if no, like even if
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: nothing tangible from the source material is to his point,
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: more people are going and interacting with it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 9: So yeah, he's not wrong.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: I guess it's like when you ban a book and
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: now suddenly everybody has to read what the banned book
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: was why is this considered so bad? All right? And
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: now you're getting the word out there. I mean, I
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: would probably be pretty honored if I wrote a book
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: and it was banned, because then I would know more
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: people to read it. So, Chris, did you read the book?
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: Did you read I read the book when it I
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: read the book last time when I did the podcast
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: in twenty fifteen, because most.
• 30:29
  Speaker 9: The book is better than the movie.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: But the book is a lot different than the movie,
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: because the point of the book is, to your point,
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: it is more of a conversation about things that are
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: going on than juxtaposed paralleled with the things that were
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: going on then when the book was published, and the
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: mystery is almost not secondary. But like you've alluded to,
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: it's that framing device that they're using to talk about
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: the other thing, and the movie can't do that. I mean,
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: the movie just can't do that because it's a it's
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: a movie, so it has to be leaning into the
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: narrative of it all, which I assume is why they're
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: using that term at the opening of the film, that
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: they're using the palampist because this is a retelling of
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: the story from the book, but without most of the implications, conversations,
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: ideas that are being thrown out by the author, you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: and his kind of feelings and philosophizing on the things
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: at the time and the things in the present. So
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: it's just it would be harder to do. I mean,
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: that's not impossible, but it's also nineteen eighty six.
• 31:30
  Speaker 9: You know.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: If this were somebody like Brady Corbett who did The Brutalist,
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: I would expect it to be a little bit more
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: in line with the source material because there's a little
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: bit more subtlety that audiences can get from film now
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: when it's something of a big budget nature like this.
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: At the time, I mean, at the time, Mike and
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: I talked about this on the last episode. Sean Connery's
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: casting in this movie Calls caused umberto Echo to leave
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: the project. He was like, I'm out of here, because
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: Connery at the time was perceived as having no box
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: office like value. He had taken a hell of a slump,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: so it was like, I'm out of here.
• 32:05
  Speaker 8: Yeah, Oh, that's so weird, because I was like, thank
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: god they got Sean Connery. I mean, he's the one
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: sort of filmic element that gets you through this boy
• 32:16
  Speaker 8: so how many authors just hate Sean Connery.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Ian Fleming.
• 32:25
  Speaker 8: It's just like you cast Sean Connery and authors just
• 32:28
  Speaker 8: I mean, it's just you know, dust clouds and tumbleweeds.
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: So obviously then the child, especially in the eighties, especially
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: when this is going to be made as a commercial film,
• 32:39
  Speaker 8: not some obscure independent even a merchant Ivory film. The
• 32:45
  Speaker 8: idea of that, it's like, we've got to really lean
• 32:47
  Speaker 8: into the murder mystery. I think they did a couple
• 32:50
  Speaker 8: of really smart things, again not having read the book,
• 32:53
  Speaker 8: by by saying this is Sherlock Holmes, the audience can go, Okay,
• 32:58
  Speaker 8: got it, I can, I can. I will hang on
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: to that, and then giving him a protege who can
• 33:03
  Speaker 8: ask all the questions, but master, why did they say
• 33:06
  Speaker 8: to that, and why are they doing this?
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: Or why we can have Sean Connery.
• 33:10
  Speaker 8: Explain a lot of stuff, which he does, which is very,
• 33:13
  Speaker 8: very helpful, And I think that's a great device. I
• 33:17
  Speaker 8: think that there could have been a way to two
• 33:21
  Speaker 8: more skillfully, Uh demonstrate how how kind of repressed and
• 33:31
  Speaker 8: you know, how dangerous early on sort of how oppressive
• 33:35
  Speaker 8: it is to be here at the beginning, it just
• 33:37
  Speaker 8: seems like, this is an abbey filled with insane people,
• 33:41
  Speaker 8: Like it really is, just like why is everyone here
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: literally crazy? I mean, is there something in the water
• 33:47
  Speaker 8: too much mercury? I don't know.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it does. It does give a very uh
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: what was that one with the Stacy Keach the Ninth configuration?
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: It feels very much like that where they're all stuck
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: in a castle and they're all crazy people.
• 34:01
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm like, maybe it's more like an insane asymumer
• 34:04
  Speaker 8: sort of thing.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it's a.
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: Little of the hill, like the the guys are off
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: on their own in the wilds, like intentionally and if
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: you want, if you want to go deal with them,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: they don't come to you. You go to them, which
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: is you know, part and parcel a problem for your
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: safety apparently if you go to them, which I mean.
• 34:23
  Speaker 8: Is there a single character in the abbey? I mean,
• 34:27
  Speaker 8: is there a single character outside of Sean Connery and
• 34:31
  Speaker 8: Christian Slater that we relate to as Okay, this is
• 34:35
  Speaker 8: a reasonable person, their sort of their voice can be trusted,
• 34:41
  Speaker 8: even if maybe we don't agree with our point of view.
• 34:44
  Speaker 8: They are not out of their mind or actively trying
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: to undermine Sean Connery. Is there anyone in the abbey
• 34:51
  Speaker 8: who represents that?
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Is it Ilia Baskin?
• 34:54
  Speaker 9: I think it's Ilia Baskin, and that's about it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and I can't who's Yeah, well, what scene do
• 35:02
  Speaker 8: we see where that guy proves that he's not an asshole?
• 35:05
  Speaker 8: Because isn't he the one who comes in swinging about
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: humor is the worst thing in the world.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, that that's the blind guy, right.
• 35:13
  Speaker 9: That's the blind that's the one that you can see one.
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: That he's the one that just gets murdered because he
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: finds the book hiding behind the Grecian right.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think he helps with the autopsy, doesn't he.
• 35:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Yes, so he helps with the very first autopsy that
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: we see. Okay, the guy who they find him face
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: down in the vat of pig's blood, which is quite
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: a way to go. Yeah, okay, I guess I.
• 35:39
  Speaker 8: No, one sort of got lodged in my brain as Okay,
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: here's the one person in the abbey who seems semi
• 35:45
  Speaker 8: reasonable and who can now sort of help us contextualize
• 35:49
  Speaker 8: the other people, because it would have been great to
• 35:52
  Speaker 8: have a character sort of go, okay, here's what you
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: need to know about the abbey. This guy, here's his deal,
• 35:58
  Speaker 8: William Mickey, here's his deal. The crazy Salvatore, here's his deal.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: They're all, you know.
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: Let me, you know, contextualize everyone. So now we all
• 36:09
  Speaker 8: know the playing field as it were.
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: It is missing something like that, and I think maybe
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: for me the closest we get is Michael Lonsdale link
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: the first ten minutes of the movie and that's about it, which,
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: by the way, Michael Lonsdale unfortunately not in this film enough,
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: which is a shade because man to the rank and
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: on bond of it all. Getting to see Connery opposite
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: Michael Lonsdale was very fun.
• 36:34
  Speaker 9: Yes, just the two of them on screen together.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: I think the guy, the mister French character is somewhat
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: benevolent as well. And Richard, you know exactly who I'm
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: talking about.
• 36:46
  Speaker 8: When I say the mister oh uh yeah, the guys
• 36:51
  Speaker 8: the and who's sort of like, oh okay, he's.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: Just any kind of protect salvatory Hell Waltinger I believe
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: is the Hector stuff. Of course, yes, we all know
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: how much Qualtinger. And apparently it was because I know
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: had just done Quest for Fire with Ron Pearlman. And
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: was just like, hey, come on over and do this.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Was it like last minute casting. I'm trying to remember
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: what the story was around that where it was just
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: as soon as Pearlman got the call, he's like, okay, yeah,
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: I'll do this, like whatever it is, I'll do it
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: for this guy who you know. I remember Quest for
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: Fire coming out and being like, okay, this is a
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: pretty fucked up movie. Ironically, Chris, the movie before that
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: was a phone called Hothead, which was written by our
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: friend Francis Pepper. This all ties together, sir, Yes, there
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: you go.
• 37:40
  Speaker 8: Well, Ron Pearlman is great as amazing. Yeah, and for
• 37:45
  Speaker 8: one of the more insane characters, is enormously sympathetic, the.
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: Most sympathetic character in the film without it anybody getting
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: burned at the stake pretty sympathetic as a character, because
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: more often than not they're not there justifiably. See a
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: film that you and I watched, Richard many moons ago,
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: The Devils, where you know, I was thinking, unjustified. When
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: was the last time someone got burned at the steak
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: justifiably in a film? I'd love to know, like make
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: up make the people being put to death by fire?
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: Are you gonna say, Cyrah, there was those three witches
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: and hocus Pocus.
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: That's fair, that might be it.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Bett Miller really deserved it.
• 38:23
  Speaker 9: I mean she was eating children.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's very true. But yeah, no, Peerlman is, like
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: I said, a phenomenon, and I think he is just
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: so great. And yeah, to take him and make him
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: look even stranger, to give him a fucking hunchback, that
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: hairdo where it looks like it's just kind of you know,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: he's got the mange almost that looks like he is. Oh,
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: it's so good. And just that the way he kind
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: of bows and scrapes and just like oh you know
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: and just like throws in the Italian all over the place.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: It's so good. Yeah, he just he goes for it.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 38:57
  Speaker 8: And it's it really is. It really is great. Even
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: even to be the first time you see him when
• 39:03
  Speaker 8: he's you know, pretty scary and weird, it's you like him,
• 39:08
  Speaker 8: you know, so that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: He starts to start sticking out his tongue, like the
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: the gargoyles and the things that are on the in
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: blaze and the walls and stuff like, and I'm just like, oh,
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: this guy's great. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, and there.
• 39:23
  Speaker 8: Was there was a lot of uh, you know, sort
• 39:26
  Speaker 8: of the Da Vinci code stuff in this in the
• 39:31
  Speaker 8: movie about figuring out the puzzles and and and there's
• 39:35
  Speaker 8: riddles that will lead you into the labyrinth and this
• 39:38
  Speaker 8: secret thing.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, here's the thing.
• 39:41
  Speaker 8: I actually think that there was a lot of great
• 39:44
  Speaker 8: stuff in the look of the movie and what the
• 39:47
  Speaker 8: movie was trying to do. I almost think the big
• 39:49
  Speaker 8: failure was the direction. I think there was a lot
• 39:53
  Speaker 8: to grab onto here. I'm just not sure it was
• 39:56
  Speaker 8: rendered and translated to us visually as effectively as a
• 40:00
  Speaker 8: could have been.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: I don't necessarily disagree with that. Yeah, it feels that
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: I would be interested, like you, in reading the book.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: I would be interested in seeing that other mini series.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, there are a lot of great things that
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: it does, but yeah, it just doesn't necessarily hold together
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: as well as it should. And yeah, I can't really
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: necessarily put my finger on exactly why, because it just
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: feels and I'm trying to remember if it was Mark
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Kromode or somebody who's just like, yeah, this movie works
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: until it doesn't. That's like the most apt way of
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: putting it, though I can't exactly pinpoint where it doesn't
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: where does it go off the rails? Well, once sort
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: of comes and goes.
• 40:37
  Speaker 8: I mean I found my attention sort of ebbing and flowing,
• 40:41
  Speaker 8: like just when I thought, you know, I'm done, because
• 40:45
  Speaker 8: I was watching it again last night with Susan, and
• 40:48
  Speaker 8: I kept reaching points where I'd be like, it's okay,
• 40:50
  Speaker 8: we can stop now, I'll finish it off tomorrow. Don't worry.
• 40:54
  Speaker 8: I have to do this. You don't, And weirdly, Susan
• 40:57
  Speaker 8: was one going, no, no, You've got to watch this.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: We can keep going.
• 41:00
  Speaker 8: I'm like, you do want to?
• 41:03
  Speaker 9: It is.
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: It's like, I don't think you're gonna see Christen Slater
• 41:06
  Speaker 8: naked again, honey, if that's what you're hoping.
• 41:08
  Speaker 9: For, Connery naked.
• 41:10
  Speaker 8: Instead, we didn't see Conrie, did you know?
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: I wish No, No, don't even get see that big
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Harry chest.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: Oh my god, he's looking so can we just talk
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: about he looks so good in this movie. He's just
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: like he's like he's got to be what in his
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: fifties early sixties at this point, and he's looking good
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: with that beard. That comes to a little point. I mean,
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: obviously we're we're a couple of years before Last Crusade,
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: so he pretty much looks the way he's going to
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: look in Last Crusade.
• 41:37
  Speaker 9: It's like, what one year before Last Crusade, I believe,
• 41:40
  Speaker 9: like you know.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: No, it's three years after this he does the Untouchables
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: Presido one called Memories of Me. I think that's the
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: other Lumette film that that we've mentioned a few times,
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: and then uh yeah, then Last Crusade after that, and
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: this was right around the time he was doing Highlander.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure which one came out first.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: I just guess for some people, this is the most
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: iconic way Sean Connery will look other than as James Bond.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: Is this kind of balding, gray, bearded man and you know,
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: like gray with a little bit of the darkness still
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: in it because he's still not portraying super old yet
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: he's supposed to be like a good looking silver fox
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: in his fifties.
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: Yo.
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: Can you know that's the thing? Sean Connery good looking guy.
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: I think that's maybe the other thing. It's like, Sean
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: Connery is almost too good looking to be in this
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: movie because about ugly everyone else is. But that's obviously
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: the point him and Slater are like the two the
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: two good looking guys, and everybody else is just like
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: all different forms of fucked up, like or just like
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: genuinely bizarre looking character actors like who I mean, vulgar, prectal,
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: I mean, Jesus go look what he looks like on
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: Wikipedia if you click on his thing to take to
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: his page. It's a sculpture that someone did of his
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: head and took a picture of it, like because of
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: how like just unique he looks as an actor. Like
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: it's I really love the look of this movie, probably
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: more than anything else. This might be one of those
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: movies where you just mute it and put it on
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: in the background because just the vibe of it is
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: so kind of enthralling, But a lot of the other
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: things just kind of fall flat, which I don't I think.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: I don't know if it's the director as much as
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: maybe the screenwriters. I know, I know a screenwriter would
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: say it's the director's fault.
• 43:20
  Speaker 9: Wink wink. Richard's simular throwing the screen actor, the actors
• 43:26
  Speaker 9: and the directors, it's all their fault.
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: I just think it's unfortunately, it's just kind of unfocused,
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: like it's it's unfocused in a way that like something
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: like this shouldn't be And I'm assuming at least somewhat
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: probably that a mini series adaptation would hopefully give some
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: of those things a little bit more room to breathe,
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: not being bound by you know, a two and a
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: half hour movie, or.
• 43:49
  Speaker 8: If there's a way to sort of tie them all together,
• 43:52
  Speaker 8: to tie in, just to line up everything against the
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: line of what is considered within orthodoxy and acceptable and
• 44:03
  Speaker 8: what is just over the line, and then you can
• 44:06
  Speaker 8: have your stuff. Like obviously in nineteen eighty six, I'm
• 44:09
  Speaker 8: sure there was a lot of skittishness about how do
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: we really approach homosexuality in this movie where it's mostly
• 44:19
  Speaker 8: men and a lot of them are dying, and we've
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: got the gay rights movement and we've got AIDS, so
• 44:25
  Speaker 8: it's like, okay, that's the most challenging issue. Now they
• 44:29
  Speaker 8: address it early on. They they're talking about, oh, is
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: the question was the victim engaging in this unnatural act?
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: And the answer is no, and it's it's sort of
• 44:42
  Speaker 8: like asked an answered. Now we can move on. Keep
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: all your gay questions now have been resolved.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: We're not going gay anymore. On to the next.
• 44:52
  Speaker 8: But it would have been nice if there was a
• 44:53
  Speaker 8: way to figure out like who is considered transgressive and
• 44:57
  Speaker 8: who is not, what is a transgression, what is not
• 45:00
  Speaker 8: and are of those the people who are being targeted
• 45:04
  Speaker 8: and then and then follow that line of thinking all
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: the way up to oh yes, As it turns out,
• 45:11
  Speaker 8: the most transgressive thing you can do in this community
• 45:15
  Speaker 8: at this time is is educate yourself. Take advantage of
• 45:20
  Speaker 8: literacy and broaden your notion of the world by reading
• 45:24
  Speaker 8: about all academic fields, science and philosophy and literature. And
• 45:32
  Speaker 8: you know, that's the most That is what threatens the
• 45:34
  Speaker 8: church at that moment more than anything, and that is
• 45:38
  Speaker 8: the ultimate you know, heterodoxy, and and that is what
• 45:44
  Speaker 8: links all the deaths. Like I honestly think there's got
• 45:48
  Speaker 8: to be a way to sort of push all this
• 45:49
  Speaker 8: stuff in in an organic way so that an audience
• 45:52
  Speaker 8: is living with this question for two hours, so that.
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: When the end finally comes.
• 45:58
  Speaker 8: It it feels like like we're getting closer and closer
• 46:02
  Speaker 8: to a predetermined destination rather than just we're wandering around
• 46:07
  Speaker 8: and this is kind of where we've ended up.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: I love, Yeah, you're talking about what's orthodox and what's not.
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: I mean listening. I listened to a lot of books
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: by bart Erman, who's a religious scholar, and I just
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: am always fascinated about, you know, the Schism and uh,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: you know, the Reformation and those kind of things. And
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: it's just like people would be put to death for
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: the simplest you know, uh heretical point of view, where
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: it's like, you know, does does the does the wafer
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: turn into the literal body of Christ? Is just a
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: symbol for the body of Christ. I mean there were
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: much more simple things like and just the idea like
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: you were saying, as far as the Ron Perlman character
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: of like, hey, you know, Jesus says we have to
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: be poor, let's give away all of our wealth. Well,
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: that's going to cause some big waves in this Catholic church.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Just big money making machine. There's no fucking way we're
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: going to do that. But just simple, stupid little things
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: could cause people to get thrown out of fucking windows.
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Back then, it's just like oh, yeah, here we are
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: what was it the council worms or whatever, where it's
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: just like, yeah, you don't agree with us, We'll put
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: you to death and whatever. It is like oh yeah, no,
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: the crown of thorns. Those thorns were off of this
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: type of bush. No, they were off of this. Yeah.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: It's like, okay, we'll kill the people that we don't
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: agree with. Yeah, I'm so glad.
• 47:25
  Speaker 8: That's so funny you brought him u because I'm like Bartnerma,
• 47:27
  Speaker 8: I do know that name, and I'm like, I know.
• 47:29
  Speaker 8: I read a book of his. It's called Misquoting Jesus. Yes, yeah,
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: and was published decades ago, but it's it's so it's
• 47:38
  Speaker 8: such a great title because it speaks to how people,
• 47:42
  Speaker 8: you know, can can use quotes from the Bible to
• 47:46
  Speaker 8: support or demonize almost anything.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, his books about the Gnostic Gospels, his books about
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: the books that didn't make it into the Bible. Because
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: that's something that some people forget is that the books
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: that are in the Bible now were chosen by men.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Sorry men, however many you know, hundreds of years ago.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: It wasn't always just this is the thing, I mean,
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: some people still think that God wrote the Bible. It's no,
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: there are many authors, many languages. Yeah.
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah, like the book was found somewhere and it's like,
• 48:19
  Speaker 8: oh my god, this is a supernatural article.
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: When in text, Yeah, it.
• 48:24
  Speaker 8: Was written over the course of decades. And and what's
• 48:27
  Speaker 8: funny is the Apocrypha, which is the you know, the
• 48:30
  Speaker 8: books that didn't make it into the Bible, the deleted scenes,
• 48:34
  Speaker 8: special features. Uh you know that includes all the you
• 48:39
  Speaker 8: know what what about when Jesus was a teenager, like
• 48:43
  Speaker 8: it's in there.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, all those is that the Gospel of mus
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: I can't remember, but yeah.
• 48:49
  Speaker 9: I believe he was called teens when he was.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that whole thing where he killed the kid because
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: he made fun of him and stuff. I mean, I'm
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: not making shit up. That's in that book. So oh yeah,
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: all the all.
• 49:02
  Speaker 8: The little kids were making these clay birds and then
• 49:05
  Speaker 8: Jesus came up and like, yep, we're them been real birds,
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: and he was like a young magician, you.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: Know, exactly voila. It's like when Jesus goes to a
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: rest rat and orders water all around and gives everybody
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: a wink. You know. But and you said decades, I
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: think more like centuries because I think like the original
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: Gospels were written like in the fourth century.
• 49:24
  Speaker 8: Right, and then the New Testament ruled out and there
• 49:27
  Speaker 8: was more. I mean it took for the King James version,
• 49:31
  Speaker 8: which is what you know, the Western world, or what
• 49:33
  Speaker 8: we know of as the Bible. Yeah, was written over
• 49:36
  Speaker 8: a long, long period of time, and many of the
• 49:39
  Speaker 8: later portions were written by people who, you know, generations
• 49:43
  Speaker 8: had known the earlier versions. You know, they the people
• 49:47
  Speaker 8: who wrote the later versions of the Bible had access
• 49:48
  Speaker 8: to the earlier versions as this church was sort of
• 49:52
  Speaker 8: putting together these texts that they knew within their own
• 49:56
  Speaker 8: world but had not been disseminated, and they were written,
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: of course to the Greek narrative style. You know, the
• 50:05
  Speaker 8: story of Hercules and Zeus and all the Greek gods
• 50:08
  Speaker 8: had already been written and were currently you know, the
• 50:13
  Speaker 8: best sellers of the time when the Bible was being written,
• 50:16
  Speaker 8: and so those techniques and those structures were adopted. If
• 50:21
  Speaker 8: if Jesus seems like a superhero, sometimes that's why, because
• 50:25
  Speaker 8: that's what that's what they had access to in terms
• 50:27
  Speaker 8: of how do you tell it a narrative.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at the Moses story, and
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: obviously if you look at Superman, but if you look
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: at the Moses story and you look at the Jesus story,
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: there are so many fucking parallels. I mean, it was
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: just like that was the you know, here's the text.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: Now we're going to rewrite the text and just kind
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: of do a finer replace. From what I understand, the
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: last couple of books have actually been written by Ai Ai.
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: Jesus yes, exactly what is wrong. It's that whole THHX
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: eleven thirty eight fit, you know, Jesus Ai that all
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: of the the bald men are talking to the bald people.
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: It reminds me of those jokes they always have, like
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: in they're not even jokes, they're tropes in science fiction
• 51:06
  Speaker 8: films that take place in the future. There it's like,
• 51:08
  Speaker 8: you know, well, this is philosophy like your Plato or
• 51:14
  Speaker 8: Nietzsche or zanthrax.
• 51:18
  Speaker 9: Zilbouzion. Yes, yes, yes.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: It's like when they when they gave fucking Elon Musk
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: a shout out in a Star Trek movie. It's like,
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: oh no, no, no.
• 51:27
  Speaker 9: No, we don't need this, we don't need.
• 51:30
  Speaker 8: No, it's not gonna age.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Well, it's funny, you know, like how many times now
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: we hear Trump's name in movies from like the eighties nineties.
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: I'm just like, oh, yeah, no, he was just all
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: around like that.
• 51:43
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, he was all around and considered the absolute
• 51:47
  Speaker 8: butt of every joke, a living joke. You watch these movies,
• 51:51
  Speaker 8: that's like, yeah, that's what he is.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: Okay, got it? Yeah? Well guess what. Guess who embraced that?
• 51:56
  Speaker 9: Well not all of us, but some of us did it.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: I vote have for them all four elections.
• 52:02
  Speaker 9: I voted for him all six.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Wow. Now see, you're a true maga fact.
• 52:06
  Speaker 9: I know I am.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: I'm a true maggot, as they call me. I was
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: gonna mention the other thing about this movie, the Dan
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: Brown of it all. I think if you're gonna do
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: what they did, which is remove like the homosexual overtones,
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: undertones or explicit things that were going on, if you're
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: gonna remove it completely, the least you could do is
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: lean into the more of the kind of mystery solving
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: of puzzles and other things of it all.
• 52:30
  Speaker 9: Like, I think you really could have.
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: Leaned more into that and made a more interesting film
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: if you're going to kind of ignore some of the
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: more heady things to go after anyways, because I just
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: went and kind of scanned the new one, at least
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: the synopsis of it, and they reinject no pun intended,
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: the gay things back into it. I mean it is
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: also ironic that Rupert Everett is playing the F. Mariy
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: Abraham character. Everett openly gay man has been since like
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: the late nineties.
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: It was one of the first actors to ever come
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: out publicly. Yeah, I bet he'd like to F Murray Abraham.
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: Whoa hey, oh wow, apparently every or Abraham, Yes, exactly.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: I was reading stories. Now this is from the trivia,
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: so I don't know, probably don't believe it, but I
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: was reading stories that F. Murray Abraham was being a
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: total asshole on set and kept talking about his Oscar
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: he just won for Ramadas.
• 53:25
  Speaker 9: And Rick isn't isn't he kind of a prick?
• 53:29
  Speaker 8: Supposedly Maybe I don't really absolute absolute reputation. Okay, Okay,
• 53:37
  Speaker 8: I wasn't, but asking about a reputation.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: His reputation is not good. Yeah, and so yeah, apparently
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: he was like really lording that over Connery. And so
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: I'm reading all this stuff and it had been years
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: since I watched the movie, so and you know, he's like,
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: what one of the first, you know, not top build
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: obviously because of Connery, but just like way up there,
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh wow, cool, F Murray Abraham and
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: the movie keeps going on, the movie keeps going on.
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: I'm reading this stuff where it's just like, yeah, he
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: won his oscar and then was lorded and over Connery
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: and then Connery won for the Untouchables like the next
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: year or whatever. I was like, well, that's cool, and
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: I'm reading about this. I'm just like, well, wait, isn't
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: he in this movie? Like where where's he? And then
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: finally what I see show It was like, what ten
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: minutes before the end, it felt like like the third
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: act reveal of f Murray Abraham.
• 54:24
  Speaker 9: He feels and then really tacked on to the film.
• 54:27
  Speaker 8: He does Yeah, he comes in, does the I'm the
• 54:30
  Speaker 8: evil Magistrate of the Chart and I will make you
• 54:35
  Speaker 8: admit I'll torture you until and of course he does yeah.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: And then and then at the end it's just sort of.
• 54:41
  Speaker 8: Like, okay, we we got to give the audience something,
• 54:43
  Speaker 8: all right, right the action sequence, everything's on fire and
• 54:47
  Speaker 8: then uh, his carriage flips over and there's a cliff
• 54:51
  Speaker 8: and some weird farm implement that's just a bunch of spikes.
• 54:56
  Speaker 9: As try a tiller for those of us in the know,
• 54:58
  Speaker 9: Richard for the land as they.
• 55:01
  Speaker 8: Say no, no, no, I just go to the supermarket.
• 55:03
  Speaker 8: But man, let me tell you his his fields got tilled.
• 55:08
  Speaker 9: What's funny is that I didn't see that.
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: That's all added, Like, that's not in the book like
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: the books, the books, no, but the book's ending is
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: the book's ending is essentially the baddies get away with it.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: Like the book's ending is not like any sort of
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: upbeat anything. And my kind of take on the part
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: with f. Marie Abraham, and again, the book I think
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: does a better job of it. It's almost like Sherlock
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: Holmes versus Torquemada, which is how the book kind of
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: gets into it, and the movie never gets there because
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: the movie is again like it tacks on f. Marie
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: Abraham way too late into the film for him to
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: feel like a threat. And also he's not really a
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: threat in the same way that the guy.
• 55:47
  Speaker 9: Who's murdering people is.
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: It's it's a threat based on his like religious zelotry
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: versus I mean again, it's religious zalotry of two different kinds,
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: but his is a lot more of the stock and
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: trade religious zelotry, Like, well, you know you're a witch?
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: How do I know? I saw you communing with a
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: black cat okay, you're a witch. The end, like Ef
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: Mary Abraham's style of religious zealotry is much more I
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: would say, uh, fascistic in nature, as in, you know,
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: it's very like by the books. You know, it's like
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: the Nazis they were using, you know, Nazis. Ultimately, yes,
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: they gassed people, but as they point out in Room
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: two three seven, ultimately the real weapon of the Nazi
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: machine was the typewriter, just writing out all the people
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: and putting all their names on things and getting them
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: to the camps. Like what happened beyond that is unimportant
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: because just getting them there was a just bureaucratic process ultimately,
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: and it's that bureaucratic evil in this film that's again
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: a religious version of it, that's Ef mariy Abraham. It's
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: like it almost just feels like unnecessary in this film,
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: like the other things going on were much more interesting.
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: No offense to Ef Mariy Abraham and his acting stylings,
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: but it's just the movie is long, and it needed
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: another forty five minutes for his character to act feel
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: like he has some stakes to what's going on. Because yes,
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: it's unfortunate that Ron Pearlman and his like handler are
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: the ones who go down for everything. But you could
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: have gotten so much more weight out of that moment
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: even by just giving Emery Abraham time to truly be
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: a villainist, just bureaucrat, a villainous, just paper pusher essentially.
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: Well, and that's what that feels like. He is. He
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: feels like a politician, you know. And I'm sure I'm
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: not the first person to say this, but the whole
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: idea of the Inquisition is like, Okay, who can we
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: safely get rid of?
• 57:31
  Speaker 9: Right?
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: And is William of Baskerville too well known for us
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: to do this? Because really there's a danger of riot
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: going on, Like, you know, you keep putting these people
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: to death, and at some point you're going to put
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: the wrong person to death and then the crowd's going
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: to go after you. It's very you know, when when
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: the tide started to turn against McCarthy.
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I just I wish that there was more
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: of that because to Richard's point, the way the film
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: ends just kind of I wouldn't say it comes out
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: of nowhere, but if it feels markedly unearned and tonally
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: kind of bizarre compared to it's not that the movie's
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: violence lists, but all of the violence happens off screen essentially,
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: like we see it's kind of like seven. We kind
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: of see the aftermath of what's happened, not the crime itself, like, Oh,
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: this guy got stuck into a pot upside down, or
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: he fell out of a you know, fell off of
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: a high parapet and the window wasn't open, like we
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: see all those things. I mean, we don't even we
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: see a wide shot of Ron Perlman on fire. We
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: don't see him like a closeup of him on fire
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: like we do with the Blind Monks. So the movie
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: it's just I don't know, like it's trying, like you said, Richard,
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: to have this really unearned like moment at the end
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: that feels like it's from another movie, not this one.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, did did Christian?
• 58:47
  Speaker 8: I did watch the movie twelve hours ago, so you
• 58:49
  Speaker 8: can't expect me to remember anything. But did did Christian Slater?
• 58:54
  Speaker 8: Was Was he instrumental in saving the woman from being
• 58:57
  Speaker 8: burned at the stake?
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: Totally?
• 58:59
  Speaker 9: No?
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: I mean you could say you was, because the tower
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: was on fire and that stopped them and forced them
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: to go back. But he didn't do anything. He didn't
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: even stop F Maury Abram from getting away. He literally
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: made it so they couldn't chase after F.
• 59:15
  Speaker 9: Murray Abram, Like he's.
• 59:16
  Speaker 8: Literally at the gate going, oh it closed too late.
• 59:19
  Speaker 9: In a lime start, right.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's so I don't know, it's so strange.
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: It's just like the film. It almost feels like, oh,
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: the test audiences didn't like the ending, so we gotta
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: go do resheets. I know that's not what happened, but
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: it just feels like we need to have a quote
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: happy ending unquote when the source material had nothing of
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: the sort remotely.
• 59:38
  Speaker 8: The peasants rise up and cause a problem with the carriage,
• 59:43
  Speaker 8: it seemed like yeah, yeah, and then the carriage got
• 59:47
  Speaker 8: stuck in mind, and then it fell off a cliff
• 59:49
  Speaker 8: and then it gott pale.
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the four writers of it really
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: feels like it like, Okay, bring in the last guy. Okay,
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: I'll fix up these last few things. Oh yeah, I.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 8: Mean, because you do get the sense that it probably
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 8: was a case of like, Okay, this particular draft was
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 8: much more true to the book. Then the next one
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 8: kind of leaned into a whole different character, and then
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 8: this one was about this relationship, and I wanted to
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 8: be more excited about Christen Slater and the girl, but
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 8: I just I just couldn't get that just didn't feel
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 8: like a real relationship to me.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: It felt very tacked on and just like she didn't
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: seem to have any sort of feeling. Well, not that
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: people have to have feelings for each other when they
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: have sex, but it didn't even feel like she had
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: been around them enough to be like, Oh, you look hot,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: let's get to it. Yeah, I mean, I love that idea.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 8: I mean it's it's always a compelling story when you
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 8: when the story you're telling is about religious devotion, and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 8: then the drama is can a human being ever be
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 8: as devoted to their religion as they want to be
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 8: considering that they are still flesh and blood. I'll buy
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 8: that's that's a story, and that was Christian Slater's story.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 8: But even that, in the two hours given did not
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 8: seem that it had a lot of time to really
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: make us care and be concerned. We understood by proxy
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 8: that he was concerned by the way. Christian Slater gives
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 8: a great performance, as does Sean Connery, as did really
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 8: most of the people in this film. Some of the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 8: monks are a little over the top, which again makes
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 8: it feel like an insane asylum.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: But okay, I guess I don't know. Oh I agree
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: with that. Yeah, there are some very utra performances. I mean,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: not everybody can be Michelle la Ground where he's just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: like so calm throughout so much of this and just
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: he does a great job of kind of you know,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: I know that there's a lot of bead shit going
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: on around here, but I'm just trying my best, you know,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: talk about bureaucrats. It feels like he is really the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: middle manager between all of these monks and God, and
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: just like I'm try my best. I'm doing my best
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: here with what I've got. These guys are pretty heretical,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: but I'm really trying my best.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 9: So umberto Echo.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: In twenty eleven gave a review of this film which said,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: a book like this is a club sandwich with turkey, salami, tomato, cheese, lettuce,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: and the movie is obliged to choose only the lettuce
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: or the cheese, eliminating everything else, the theological side, the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: political side.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 9: It's a nice movie.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he's right, He's yeah, it is a nice movie,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: but Yeah, Like I said, I would be very curious
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: to actually read the full thing. I downloaded it from audible,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: but it was twenty hours, and I just there was a.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: Good too, But it's it definitely digs into the world
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: more and if that's what you want, like I think,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: i'd look, if I'm gonna watch something like this, that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: is kind of what I want. I want to see
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: the world of it all and the surroundings. And that's
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: why my assumption is with that mini series, I mean
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 5: it's eight episodes. It's eight hours of television, which is
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: four times as long as this, So you've got to
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: assume that there's much more time given to certain things
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: that the film just kind of ignores because two and
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: a half hours is a lot of time, but it isn't,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: especially when, like you mentioned, Mike, the book, if you
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: listen to it is twenty hours long, which is a
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: long time. I mean that's a lot of a lot
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: of a lot, And so I feel like what they
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: wanted was something that this wasn't, and they kind of
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: made this into something to suit the audiences of the time.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: But my hope would be that something that adapted it
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: only a couple years ago would have understood and seemingly
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: does the ramifications of actually adapting a work like this,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: one that has something to say. And I'm not saying
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: the film doesn't have anything to say. I'm just not
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: sure the film knows what to say.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah, clearly there was some power at the studio level,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 8: at some level that just kept saying no, no, more entertaining,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 8: make it more fun, some sexy, have a somebody throws in.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: For the poster, make it look like a fun Indiana
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: Jones style realm.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 8: Yeah, this has to be entertainment. And if it had
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 8: just been allowed to be what it is, you could
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 8: have made a two hour version of this that I
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 8: think would have been better and maybe more entertaining or
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 8: at least maybe more comprehensible as a unified work, which
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 8: this does not feel like, which is why I pointed
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 8: the director, because four.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: Screenwriters are not.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 8: Ultimately, the director has the last chance to try to
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 8: impose form to the function of what has been put
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 8: on film. And and you know, God bless the guy,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 8: he probably bent over backwards and then at a certain
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 8: point just said, Okay, look, here's your fucking movie. Hopefully
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 8: this makes you happy.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: The two things real quick one. I was very disappointed
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: that William Hecky isn't the narrator of the audio book,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: because I think he really would have done a good
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: job with that age.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: I do not think you would listen to that for
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: more than five minutes without tearing your fucking hair out.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: I would be so happy to try to listen to that.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: That would be great. And the other thing was just
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: like going back to the Conery of it all, It
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: is just yeah, like this actually helped start the Connery revival,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: which is weird, Like like Columbia refused to finance the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: picture when they cast Conrie. It's like I could I know,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: I lived through this period of time. Yes, I even
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: went to see Never Say Never Again in the in
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: the theater. But I just the idea of Sean Connery
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: being quote unquote box office poison is pretty fucking crazy.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: Who did they want? I seem to remember it was it?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: What was it? Burt Reynolds? Was it? Oh?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 8: I like I'm thinking, well, it had to be a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 8: British actor, but maybe not.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: I don't remember who it was, but yeah, I mean
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know who. I mean a lot of actors
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: could have done this, obviously, but Yeah. I just I
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: that my problems with this movie do not start and
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: end with Sean Connery.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 9: I don't think he even You want some names?
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: You want, let's hear some names. Give me some names here. Chris,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: Chris is the first one? Please? Is the first one?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: Dudley Moore?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 9: Boy, wouldn't that have been fun?
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 9: Roy Scheider?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: Okay, Marlon Brando, Wow, Anthony Perkins, Alan Bates, Paul Newman
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: and Yeves Montaigne.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: See those last four again? Who Eve Montant? And who
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: somebody else?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 9: Jerkins, Alan Bates and Paul Newman.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: I could see baits doing it.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 8: Oh but not well Alan Bates, of course, I mean
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 8: again British actor, but no Anthony Hopkins.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: Other names, Michael Caine, Albert Finney, Richard, there you go,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: Jack Nicholson, there you go, Robert de Niro, Donal Donald Sutherland,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: Maxwan Seedau, sir Ian McKellen.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: Well, wait are you looking at? Did you?
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 8: Did you type in actors that were considered for this role? Okay,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 8: because Michael Caine totally gets that. I'm still stuck on
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 8: the British thing and it has to be.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 5: British, right, I mean, that's fucking part of it, like
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: I Albert Baskerville has the such a big part of it,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: you can't. I feel like that has to be the
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: choice you make, right, Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: I mean I don't know. I mean obviously, yeah, you know.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 9: Or John Tatorro's you know, if you want to.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, Richard Harris would have been freaking amazing in this,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: or even Ian McKellen and though a little short, and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: also you know, I don't know if they would have
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: cast him in the Fifth Element if he had played
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: a monk twice.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 8: But box office wise, was was Michael Caine on a roll?
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: Had he done? I think he was. This was right
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: around the time he was doing death Trap, which we
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: were talking about by this this episode of Steveton Lumette.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: Even though we're not talking out.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: In eighty five, eighty six, eighty four, we have blame
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: it on Rio Water, Uh death Trap, like Mike said, uh,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: he Whistleblower, Half Moon Street. So yeah, like you know,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, he's he's only one year removed. He's only
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: one year away from making Jaws the Revenge. I was
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: trying to figure out if this came out before or
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: after John Boy.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: So he could have used the money. But this probably
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: wasn't a place he went into vacation.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: So right, I already did that one foot of Bahamas. Yeah,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: that's what he's fucking it. What an ass like I
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: just like viewing movies because they'll send me somewhere, which
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 5: is fair.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's basically the Adam Sandler of his day.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 8: So did you guys ever read any of his autobiographies,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 8: which are super entertaining to listen to, because he reads
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 8: them so basically his his whole sort of his The
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 8: way he looks at his life is that up until
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 8: the age of thirty five, his life was absolute shit.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 8: He was in the Korean War, like he thought he
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 8: was going to die. This was very like impactful and
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 8: sort of you know, he had PTSD from the career
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 8: in war. So everything was like really bad and shitty
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 8: in his life, and nothing really worked until he turned
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 8: thirty five, and then he got a job and then
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 8: suddenly he was an alphie and then suddenly he's a
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 8: movie star, and suddenly he's got money and he's opening
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 8: restaurants and he's like, after thirty five, everything was great,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 8: so plenty of money, all my famous friends, I opened
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 8: a restaurant.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: All we did was sit around and Drake.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 8: I literally turned on the TV one day and saw
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 8: the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen in a commercial,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 8: and I tracked her down and I married her, and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 8: we're still married thirty years later, and it's just like,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 8: this is insane. All right, Good for you, Michael Caine.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: I have to listen to those books, so I'm looking
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: for them. Oh, any person narrates one, Oh, I want
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: this one. I want Blowing the Bloody Doors Off and
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: Other life Lessons by Michael Caine.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 8: It's that one in the one right before it the
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 8: Thing of the Elephant, something to the Elephant.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: Uh yeah, the Elephant to Hollywood. Yep, the Elephant. Yeah,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: that's the one. I think that's those two. That one
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: and Blowing the.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 8: Bloody Doors Off are like the portion of his career
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 8: that we're familiar with, and like those are two.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: It looks like he actually wrote a fiction book called
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: Deadly Game, which is also narrated by Eddie Marson. No,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: that's an international, it's sorry, an explosive international thriller. So
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: if you read that book, it might actually explode in your.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 9: Hands, mission impossible style.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: It's very funny, you know, because recently the film had
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: a four K screening of I guess it was a
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: can a couple of years ago or no, is it
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: the Loumier Film Festival?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 9: And yeah, name of the road this.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: Mass and I guess Connery was at the time. On
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: Node was was warned that Connery was going to be
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 5: the problem and Connory was not the problem, which is
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: weird because I mean, we've heard about Connery and you know,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: his feelings towards the producers of James Bond, but I've
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: never heard anyone else talk about Connory and negative terms,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: which is strange because Connery just seems to be like, I.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 8: Mean, just just the women he's punched.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: Well yeah, well yeah, that's who believes women anyway.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 9: Right, reason man in Hollywood is involved.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: Exactly if we believed women, we wouldn't even be worrying
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: about seeing the rest of the Epstein files, That's right true.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: I think that this movie is worth watching for the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: setting alone, but outside of that, I'm not sure that
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: re watching this replaces the book. And rarely is that
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: over the case, but I think that this is one
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: of those cases where the it's not a puddle between
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 5: the book and the movie.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 9: It's a late it's a huge disparity.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 5: Between the two, and I think that that works in
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 5: the favor of the book as a reason to still
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 5: search out the book and read it, because the movie
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: just doesn't do a good enough job at getting to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 5: what made the book important and what made the book
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: popular and successful and you know, translated to English and
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: became a worldwide bestseller like that, that's not a given.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: This was an Italian language book that was then translated
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: and became immensely popular like.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 8: It's but yeah, but Chris, you are saying you read
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 8: it and you enjoyed the reading. You were like, oh,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 8: this is a fucking stow.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 9: The book's great.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 5: The book's great, Like the book is what you want
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: from the movie. That's what you want from the movie
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: is what the book is.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 9: I think, you know.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: Mike's point of it being twenty hours, like, it's not
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: Dan Brown where everything is fast paced, but it's not
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: disjointed and jumbled like the movie is. It has multiple
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: points and I think it actually makes them rather well.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 5: And I'd actually be interested in read, listening or rereading
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: the book because I remember enjoying it and like I said, it,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 5: you know, it leans into the kinds of things that
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: I like because I'm a huge fan of murder mystery novels.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: And that's why I mentioned CAD fail at the beginning
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: of this, because I think CAD fail is kind of
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: the if you just wanted a Franciscan monk solving mysteries,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: that's what that is. And you know what, it's pretty great.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: And you're a big fan of homosexuality.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 9: So this now so that in secret, not out in
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 9: the open as it should be.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, don't you ask, don't tell every time you're saying.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: Every time you say CAD fail, I just keep thinking of, uh,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: the computer aided drawing and like like a computer shorting
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: out someplace, like cat fail, what is it?
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 10: Oh?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 8: Okay, I'm always stating that prompted on my computers as
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 8: cat sale, cat fail.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: Okay, really I need to get something's wrong with my
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: cat cat fail, cat fail. That's when they try to
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: jump up on the counter and they miss, and then
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: they're like, I didn't want to out there anyway.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, is there anything else we want to talk about
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: with the name of the Rose Richard?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: Have you have you read fucos Pendulum, because I actually
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: bought the physical copy of that, but I once I
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: got it and it was the size that it was,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, I'm going to wait for a
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: little bit.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 8: Now. I may have started it and then just just
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 8: got intimidated and stopped.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: Actually, I think the place to end this episode is
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: the place we've started so many episodes, Richard. Even though
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: we talked about Bond, what are your feelings on Connery
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: as an act and what role for you is the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 5: Connery role that you grabbed?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 8: Well, you know, I'm not sure there is, I mean
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 8: beyond Bond, and I do like, you know, several of
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 8: his Bond movies very much. I think I just like
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 8: him as an actor. I find his presence to be
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 8: very welcoming and engaging. I mean, I think he's a
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 8: better choice than Michael Kaine, and I love Michael Kine.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 8: But I think for this movie, you really do need
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 8: someone that is the audience surrogate. Every time he's on screen,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 8: I think the audience feels like, Okay, I've got someone
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 8: I can stand next to and relate to. So as
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 8: long as I'm with Connery, I'm gonna be okay. And
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 8: I think for the most part that is true. Until
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 8: the movie itself just sort of gets too far out
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 8: over its skis, but that's always the way I feel
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 8: with Connery, and so I would I would say that.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 8: I just I find it would be incredibly engaging interesting
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 8: to watch. And I haven't seen the other movies that
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 8: you guys have covered in Mike white May, but I do,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 8: I do want to go back and see them, because
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 8: the ones you guys are watching are ones I've never
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 8: heard of, so I am interested.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: Well, I hadn't seen most of them either, other than
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: I think this is the only one. And I guess
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: we're talking about the Avengers from nineteen ninety eight, but
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 5: that's that's not a high point for a lot of you.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, again, I love that movie because I watched
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 5: it as a kid. I don't really remember it since
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: maybe I was like nine or ten years old. But
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 5: I'm kind of surprised you didn't just say Indiana Jones.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 8: I mean, I like that role, but I don't love
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 8: that movie. And I've rewatched it recently and I like it,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 8: but I'm not like, oh my god, he's so great.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: As that character.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 8: He is, he's good, but it's almost like I don't
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 8: I don't need that.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 9: Well, and you're not the only one to feel that way.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 9: Are there are more?
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 5: It's it's interesting there are more people that feel that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: way than I think. Don't with the Indiana Jones last Crusade,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: because I've heard that same center before. I think we've actually,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: Mike and I have heard it on this show, even
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: as recently as the last episode with Spencer.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 8: So and we'll probably be talking about it when we
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 8: cover it.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's right, exactly, that's right, I mean, wink.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: We've never we haven't publicly mentioned that anywhere. So no, no,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: so Richard.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 8: So we'll let you guys just sort of try to
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 8: figure out what it is we're talking about.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: That's right, See, Richard gets it? Anything else we want
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: to talk about this movie? Or can I move on
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 5: to the plugging and the ads and all that good stuff.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: If I were to pick one role for me with
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: Connery that I go back to all the time, it's Outland.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: I go back to that movie probably more than any
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: of the other Connery films that he was in, more
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: than The Rock, more than The Untouchables. I mean, frankly,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: I think I've seen The Rock twice, but I've seen
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: The Untouchables a shit ton of times. He's fucking fantastic
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: in that movie. But I just I watch Outland probably
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: the most, and it's just so much fun. Him and
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: the doctor in that one, their whole relationship, him and
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: James b sicking him and named Peter Boyle. I just
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: really love that. And then I guess otherwise Highlander. I
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: fucking love Highlander. I love Ramirez. I think that was
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: a really nice, almost cameo role. The way he also
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: doesn't take anything seriously and Highlander to the Quickening is
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: pretty great.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: The man who would be King is probably the other
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: one I watched the most of his and otherwise I
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: guess it would be it feels like something more recent
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: would be one of the ones. Oh, I know, hunt
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: for Red October. I absolutely love him in that, and
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 4: I love him at the end with that fake quote
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: from Christopher Columbus and the way that the music swells,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: that Basil Polodoras score just comes up. And that was
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: such a movie. That was such a fun movie to
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: clean when I was an usher because you got to
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: hear that like Russian joyous music as the credits rolling,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 4: and it was a lot of fun to be able
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: to clean that theater.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 8: What about his uncredited appearance at the end of the
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 8: summer blockbuster period piece Robin Hood Prince Prince of Thieves.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: Yes, which was nice to get him, like kind of
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: that Robin and Marion thing that he did with Catherine Hepburn.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: That's one I haven't seen, and I haven't seen what
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: was it the wind in the Lion or what what
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: was that of a lion in winter? Yes, the one
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: with that Milius wrote. I mean, that's got to be
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: very manly, right to have Millius writing and Sean Connery starring.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: Oh maybe, No, then it's not. I don't think it's
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: the line of winner.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: And hey, how ironic is it that in Robinhood? Christian
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: Slater's in that movie as well?
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: Exactly, Scarlett.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 8: We we just rewatched it a couple of months ago.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 8: That is a fun movie that I mean I remember,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 8: big fun but kind of weird. But it's it's super fun.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 8: And Alan Rickman is then, Yes, he's the.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 9: Best part of that movie.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: Because man, I'm just gonna say this because it feels
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: like twenty fifteen all over again. I don't like Kevin
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: Costner and I never have and I'm not sure I
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: ever will.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 8: And yet weirdly like I agree, I'm not, I don't.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 8: I wouldn't cross the street. But but but good performance.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 8: It's like, oh, this is working, this, this works.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 9: In that accent.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 8: I mean you can always argue accents in movies like
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 8: that or movies like this, because it's like, well, shouldn't
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 8: shouldn't all the characters we just saw have Italian accents?
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 9: Sure?
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 9: Okay? Okay, Robert Eggers.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: I mean the accent thing with Connery it always drove
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: me crazy when people people are so crazy about him
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: in Hunt for at October, where it's like, oh my god,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: this Russian guy has a Scottish accent, or in Highlander,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: oh my god, this Egyptian guy has a Scottish accent.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: Or the one that really killed me was the in
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: Touchbowls where they go, this Irish guy has a Scottish
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: and I just go, you can tell, you you can
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: really tell? Okay? Good, I mean I can tell, but
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: I'm like, really, the great Unwashed you can.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 9: Tell, all right, wash the unwashed messes.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: I think the thing I've seen of Connery the most
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 5: is probably Last Crusade. I wouldn't say it's my favorite
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: thing that I've seen him in. I'm not sure I
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: have that movie yet. I watch The Avengers, a movie
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: re covering as a bonus episode so many times as
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: a kid, but I couldn't remember a damn thing. So
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: I'm excited to watch that because maybe that'll be like maybe, right, I.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: Can watch them and done to myself so angry that
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: I have to talk about it, and I'm so angry
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: that I'm doing research about it too, And it's just
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: killing me that I'm spending a minute of time on
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: The Avengers.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 9: It was that bad.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, it was so fucking pithy, just the way that
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: they go back and forth with these little innuendos and
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: Fukanuma Thurman's speaking of accents for British accent.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 8: Oh, it sounds like you're getting a little piffy to say.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: I'm very pissed off.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 5: Maybe we should have picked The League of Extraordinary Gentleman instead.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: I think I actually would like that movie better. That's
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: different movies.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 9: Yes, yes, good god.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: Well, on that note, let's take a break and we'll
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 5: play a preview for the next Culture cast. We'll also
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: play the interview I did eleven years ago with Ilia Baskin.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 11: From weirding Way Media, Cambridge and with Shawn is a
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 11: podcast about two guys obsessions, passions and hobbies. Those two
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 11: guys are.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 10: Mark Bigley, host of Wake Up Heavy recollection of.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 11: Horror, and Ronald Zuriggian, host of the Skelevator YouTube channel.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 10: Each month, we talk about the toys, comics, movies, books,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 10: TV shows, and other cultural phenomena that captured our imaginations
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 10: and helped shape who we are today.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 11: From Masters of the Universe to Saturday Night Live Star Wars,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 11: to Harry Houdini the Muppets to The Elephant Man. Ronnie
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 11: and Mark dive deep into the recesses of their minds
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 11: to pull out treasured memories of things lost but never forgotten.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 10: Join us on the first Tuesday of each month over
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 10: at Weirdinwaymedia dot com or wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 12: Join me Jamie Benning on the Filmermentaries podcast, particularly if
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 12: you enjoy stories like designer Nila Rhodis Jamiro convincing George
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 12: Lucas to push him around to help gain the support
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 12: of his crew on the Ailing Howard the Duck.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 7: Plam, The Door opens, It's George, Everybody Gas.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 13: George makes a B line to me, I'm literally back
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 13: against the wall.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 12: Well here puppet tier Rose's emotional story behind that iconic
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 12: Admiral Acbars shot in Return of the Jedi.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 13: I believe it or something to be proud of, but
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 13: not the Celburg.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 12: Or how Star was. Editor Paul Hirsch tackled cutting so
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 12: many successful films.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: The thing that I learned from work with the Palm
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: is that tension depends on a clock.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 8: You need to have the sense that time is running out.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 12: Maybe Oscar winning sound designer Mark Manngini's insightful chat about
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 12: his work on Blade Runner twenty forty nine.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 5: Not a single sound from the original Blade Runner in
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 5: the new film, A great deal of inspiration.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 12: That's the film you Menary's podcast with me Jamie Benning.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 13: Hello, Twisted Humans. Do you find yourself wanting to know
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 13: more about the latest murder, conspiracy, cult or haunting than
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 13: this is the podcast for you. In nineteen fifty two,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 13: there was a record high of UFOs reported fifteen hundred sightings.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 13: There has been evidence of human sacrifice, double worship, and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 13: it is haunted by more spirits than can be counted.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 13: A family of two adults and two kids reportedly saw
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 13: a giant flying thing with glowing red eyes. And meanwhile,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 13: the family's nanny that helped Veronica to care for her
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 13: and Lucian's children, was found bludgeoned to death in the
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 13: basement of their family Hope, I'm Alicia and I'm Sierra,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 13: and this is twisted and uncorked.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 6: What drew you to that role?
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 14: Oh, so many things. It's just a combination of a
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 14: great director, a great writer, being in a project that's
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 14: life once on a lifetime opportunity and medieval mystery and
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 14: who it's It's a dream for any actor, and especially
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 14: especially with my background where I came actually from another
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 14: country and an accent, and all of a sudden, the
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 14: direct tressed Geral was everything through pet to throw right.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 6: Of course?
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: Had you had you heard of the book prior to
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 5: starring in the film, Yes.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 14: I did. I hear of the book in Barrectors like everybody.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 14: I mean, it was a very hard book, and I'd
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 14: be honest with you, I didn't read it before, but
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 14: I heard of it, and then when I got started
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 14: talking about me being in the film, I started to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 14: read it and it was impossible. I couldn't do more
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 14: than the ten pages and it's a very very difficult read,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 14: and really you need to so so when I got
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 14: the script, it was much much simpler, and for me
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 14: it was easier. But I didn't I couldn't, I think
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 14: altogether read about fifty page.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 6: Wow, Yeah, I had.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: I had never read the book before I watched the movie.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: But one of my grandparents actually read it, and you know,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: I talked with I talked with him about it, and
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 5: he was telling me how great it was, and I
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: tried reading it.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 14: And did you succeed? What did you succeed?
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 6: No, I read it.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 5: I read it like maybe twenty five pages. It's dense, and.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 14: I know, I know, and that's the same thing. And
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 14: that's why it was so much easier to work with
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 14: the script than with the book. Right with me, I
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 14: mean I need to use a dictionary to go through
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 14: so many words. I didn't know. I'm talking about the book,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 14: not the script.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 5: Right when you were when you got the part for Severinus,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: was with Sean Connery already involved with the project. Yes, yeah,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: had you had you worked with Sean Connery prior.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 6: To the film.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: Never.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 14: I met for the first time in Germany. Actually, the
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 14: mayor of a little town of what was Russell's him
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 14: my name of the town made a welcoming party for us,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 14: and that's where I first met Sean Connery. But my
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 14: very very close friend of mine who worked with him
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 14: on several projects, and so I had aligned to approach.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 14: Paul Malanski says, hi to you.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 6: And what is what is Sean? What is Sean Connery like?
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 6: What is it like working with him?
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 14: You know everything about this man was? I mean, first
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 14: of all, you you know that you're with legend, and
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 14: you think that legends behaved differently, and you are like
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 14: not from Dessers, which is totally up from what Sean
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 14: Connery was. It was very down theirs and one the
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 14: nicest people I worked with, even even I mean stars
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 14: of his statute don't have to give you lines when
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 14: they're on the other side of the camera. And he
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 14: was very kind and always asked me, if you want
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 14: to read it, I'll read it with you. And he
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 14: was absolutely and just We were all in very small
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 14: town and we were I don't know if it's the
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 14: right word hanging out together, but we spend a lot
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 14: of time together, not only me and Sean, and like
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 14: a group of us at Christ and it was nothing
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 14: hard knows about him. You know, he was very very
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 14: downtairs and very I mean I had only the best
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 14: experience with the best feelings. One little thing. I mean
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 14: that I might know that any conversation will you will
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 14: start with him on any subject. In five minutes he'll
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 14: be talking golf man. Yeah, he's an addict, and I
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 14: mean it's all we would end up talking about golfing, right,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 14: But other than that, only the best feeling and truly
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 14: throughly very nice man.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 5: And so when you were brought onto the film, from
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 5: what I've read, a lot of the film was a
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 5: lot of the exterior shots were built. The exteriors for
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 5: the film were built in Europe outside of Rome.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 6: What was that set?
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 8: Like?
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 6: I mean that was that was a truly massive set.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 14: Yeah, it's not exactly like like you say, what happened?
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 14: We filmed the name of the other filmed onto locations
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 14: Manos in Germany, eurousso time and it was a real
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 14: thirteenth century monastery called Cluster Eberbach and that's where and
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 14: the copy of it or some parts of this monastery
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 14: was built outside Rome because it had to be burned, right,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 14: So we did film in a real monastery. And we
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 14: had absolutely fabulous set designer Identifer, who did such a
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 14: magnificent job and apple place Jan Jacana before we started
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 14: filming that not a lot of people know about it.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 14: He took us to the set and what he did
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 14: he invited extras and put them in costume. So when
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 14: we when the castle went to see the set, it
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 14: was like uh over in a different century. People walking,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 14: there were goats and the chickens running around, and that
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 14: was all in the real monastery. It was really freaky
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 14: and fabulous. I don't know what words to use to
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 14: describe its contacts and especially I mean every extra that
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 14: was chosen for this film, it was he picked up individually.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 14: I mean, if you remember the film, there the most
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 14: fantastic faces.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: See yeah, they all seemed to reflect the time period
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: the film.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 6: Is set in.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 14: That's right. That's why I said, when when when we
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 14: just came to see the set, we were like freaked
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 14: out because it was like unreal and.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 8: You know it.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 6: Right right, I can only imagine.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, the fact that they spent the
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 5: time to build an exterior set of that magnitude is
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 5: impressive in and of itself.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 6: Obviously. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 5: So I'm curious, you know when you when you got
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 5: the script and you got the part, were you told
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 5: was it were you told ahead of time your character
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 5: was was going to die in the in the later
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 5: half of the film. Was that was that kind of
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 5: was that something you were aware of?
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you know in this day and age,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: right with kind of the internet and people leaking information,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 5: stuff like that is kind of sometimes intentionally left out
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: of scripts.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 14: No, it was in the script and the internet wasn't.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 4: That popular, right of course.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 14: Yeah, so uh yeah, yeah, you read the script, you
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 14: knew that the characters guy, I could ask him to
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 14: let me live too longer, but then you'll have to
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 14: talk to Comberto Echo and then he'll have to write
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 14: another book.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 5: So once you got the part and you were, you know,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 5: on set, what was it like working with Jaka know
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 5: and kind of just what was what was filming like
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 5: on a daily basis for the film?
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 14: It was first of all John jack and I was
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 14: a very unusual director. I mean he uh, in addition
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 14: to dining as the script, he gave us a lot
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 14: of material related to the time when so we had
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 14: he knew that the actors are lazy bastard and wouldn't
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 14: go to the library too three years. So he provided
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 14: as with a lot of material and his that we
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 14: read it and we knew it, and that was very
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 14: very different from any other experience I had before that
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 14: or after that. And as far as just working every day,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 14: it was very very challenging, very interesting. He's a great director.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 14: I feel very fortunate that chosen by Janda cannot to
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 14: be part of it. And as far as working every day,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 14: it was very interesting working something that you wake up
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 14: and you look forward to doing.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 5: Do you enjoy working on period pieces like the name.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 6: Of the Rose?
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 14: I think they're the best. Yeah, I mean it all depends,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 14: you know, it's I mean, you can just I mean
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 14: it's interesting, of course to do this up and could
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 14: costume of a different area. But it could be a
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 14: fantastic experience and it could be probably it could be
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 14: dreadful experience if if director doesn't know what he's doing,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 14: and I mean the crew and kats don it along.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 14: But in this case it was everything was just like
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 14: flowed very very nice in the cast I mean, but
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 14: the great cast there was, I mean all the great
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 14: German actors Austrian actors, French, my Michael Lonsdale, it was
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 14: a very very Italian actress. It was an international cast.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 14: Was fascinating people. This was wonderful work work.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the film has a really diverse cast. I mean
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 5: it has, like you said, Michael Lonsdale. Also William Hickey,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 5: who is yeah, Ron Peerlman, who at the time was
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: not you know as Yeah, it was big, but he
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 5: was not the famous Yeah, not like he is now obviously,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 5: and E.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 6: Fbury Abraham as well.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 14: Obviously f Mary Abraham was bigger than them now. Yeah,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 14: Oscar which he was dragging that all the time about.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 5: So it's kind of a question for you, you know,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 5: looking through your IMDb credits and your credits in films,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 5: obviously you know, uh, you're a you know, a Russian actor.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 5: You were you were trained in in Moscow, you know
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 5: in In the Name of the Rose. Your character is
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 5: not Russian, inherently not Russian, no Irish, right.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 14: Yeah, I had I had a dialogue coach, Michael, not Michael, Chris,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 14: Chris Black was coaching me on a dialogue. So I
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 14: don't know how successible I was, but I mean nobody
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 14: said that was not real. I needed to have a
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 14: dialogue coach.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: Right, Well, my question to you is is it refreshing
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 5: to you to be cast in a role that you
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 5: don't play to your inherent strengths of your Russian background.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 14: But that's what I'm looking for over too, because they
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 14: know so many Russians in Asia and Europeans that every
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 14: time I get a part which is not I mean,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 14: it's very hard to give because the cast and directors
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 14: think like only I mean, they cliche us, you know,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 14: you know these guys were and even my agents they
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 14: send me out for the parts that are wrong for
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 14: me just because it says it's Russian or it's Ukrainian
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 14: or Polish or whoever. And they don't send me out
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 14: for parts which are which I am right for because
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 14: it doesn't mention the background. But that's that's, that's what
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 14: it is, and I have to live with it.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 5: Well that yeah, that's that's that's kind of my My
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 5: question really is is when you get a role like
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 5: in the Name of the Rows, do you enjoy those
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 5: more than just your role where you have to be Russian?
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 14: Yeah, of course, of course, of course, much more challenging.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: Is much more angine, because I know a lot of
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 5: you know, American audience says will recognize you from you know,
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 5: your your roles as as Russian characters Spider Man two
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 5: and three, you know in Transformers thirteen days, I mean all.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 14: Those not Russian, but in some some Thursday Days it
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 14: was a Polish guy, right, But I did the same thing.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 14: I mean, it's the Eastern.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 5: Europe Unfortunately, the American audience won't know the difference to
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 5: some extra right, that's right.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 14: The thing is the thing is that it's as I said,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 14: it's much more difficult for me to get parts of
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 14: which are not described as particularly Eastern Europeans because my
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 14: agents they just want to submit me for them. Every
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 14: time I go and meet with them, we have this
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 14: conversation that you say, yes, yes, we have to be
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 14: more creative. We have, but it's nothing happens, or rarely
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 14: something happens.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 5: Right, Well, and you've kind of become the go to
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 5: character actor in Hollywood for portraying Russian characters.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 14: Unfortunately, or maybe four you.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 5: Know, I can I can imagine it gets a little
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 5: monotonous just playing Eastern European characters over and over again.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 14: It's not only that, you know, I don't mind playing Europeans.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 14: It's just the pie is much bigger, and I get
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 14: a little small piece of the spid. There are so
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 14: many parts that I could audition for, I mean, not
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 14: necessarily I will get, but I can't even get the
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 14: auditioned because my ancients think that because it doesn't say
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 14: Russian in a breakdown, or Polish or many.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 5: I just I asked this primarily because I am three
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 5: quarters Ukrainian and so yeah, my last name is stock
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 5: you so so yeah, I just I asked that because
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: I can imagine it getting monotonous being cast in these
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 5: kind of same, genetically similar roles.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 14: Yeah. Usually usually I get other roles when a director
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 14: particularly likes my work, and I did a couple of
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 14: years ago. I did a film called Jimmy p which
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 14: is called Ak Jimmy Picard, which was it's it's a
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 14: period piece right after the Second World War about psychiatry,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 14: and it was a French director who looked me up
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 14: and that's how I get the party where I'm not
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 14: a Russian.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 5: Well, you know that was kind of you know, surprising
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 5: to me watching the name of the Rose that you
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 5: know your character.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 6: Is not is not Russian. He's like you said, he's Irish.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 5: So that was refreshing for me because I really enjoy
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 5: character actors and I like seeing character actors doing things
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 5: that aren't what we would normally associate them a role
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 5: with them.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 14: So, yeah, take a look at this film. It wasn't
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 14: released in the state. I mean it's it's it's a athlete.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 14: It's called Jemmie t and it's with a dol Toro,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 14: right yeah, right, yeah, and wonderful French actor Amereric the
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 14: Matthew Amaleric Gina McKee. It's a very very interesting film there.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 14: I play an Austriam, but at least it's not.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 6: The Eastern right right.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 5: So yeah, getting back to the Name of the Rose,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 5: what what was your kind of what's your favorite memory
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 5: from the set or something that sticks out to you
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 5: from your time filming the film.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 14: Well, of course I told you about the whole atmosphere
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 14: that we got into this excursion to the set with
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 14: was being surrounded by such a great actors. You feel
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 14: that you're a like exclusive club, and especially in Europe
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 14: by that time, the book was very, very very famous
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 14: and the world went out about the filming, so everybody
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 14: was looking at us as it's like very rare creatures,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 14: you know. I remember when we were filming in the
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 14: built set a near Rome, we had to interrupt filming
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 14: quite often because they had a blimp flying over with
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 14: stories showing the set and of course you cannot shoot
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 14: the thirteenth century mystery, but the blimp flying over it
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 14: all the time. So that was a great part of it.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 14: The part of Another part was that we were not
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 14: as much in Rome, but in Germany we were staying
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 14: all staying in a little town and we had to
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 14: be with each other, see each other all the time,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 14: and just getting to know each other. It was fabulous,
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 14: absolutely fantastic cinematographer. When you go to the set, you
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 14: see the set and it has certain colors, and then
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 14: you see it on the film in the colors are
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 14: totally different, much much more interesting. How should I say,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 14: You don't see it when you're there, but on the
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 14: film you see absolutely magnificent colors and stuff. It was
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 14: the feelings DP Delacholi, the memories about funny stuff. I know,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 14: I have to like think a little more about the Christians.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 14: Later was sixteen years old and always in love with somebody,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 14: and it was finding him like becoming a grown up
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 14: in front of our eyes. And I had to shave
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 14: how do you call this thing in the middle of
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 14: the head than the.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 6: Little the friars circle?
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was funny when people were
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 14: looking at it just when I was walking, because it
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 14: looked like very strange. I mean, uh, I don't have
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 14: I don't have any funny little stories at the moment.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 14: I mean I have to like concentrate a little more
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 14: on that. Maybe i'll fact many years ago.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 5: Of the scenes that you're in in the film, which
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 5: one are you personally?
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 6: The most proud of.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 14: The scene that I liked was the scene where we
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 14: where we had this dead monk and I did the
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 14: autopsy and uh, and that's when I explained that he
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 14: could be what was it flash according to Nature and
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 14: Against the Nature? It was a scene with Sean Connery
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 14: and Christian Slater that was I think a very nice scene.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 14: I don't know if you remember it. It's when when
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 14: uh trying to remember his name. I think it was
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 14: Michael habback when he died and I do the atit.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 6: Right on the on Berengar.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I I I enjoy everything about the movie,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 5: but I really enjoy the fact that there are a
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 5: lot of what would be considered in a lot of
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 5: films smaller parts. But even those you know, quote unquote
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 5: smaller parts, they're given a lot to do. I mean,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 5: your character is one of the driving forces in the
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 5: film later on, uh, and you're given a fair amount
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 5: to do in the film, even though it's a it's
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 5: a smaller part on kind of the grand scheme of
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 5: the film.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 14: Prince medium sized bot, it wasn't very He actually is
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 14: the one who discovered the book. Right. Another thing that
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 14: to mention interesting things it was working with further shut
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 14: up in junior. You know who who who I'm talking about?
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 14: I think the guy who the blind guy who was killing.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 6: Europe right right right.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 14: And he is the son of one of the greatest
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 14: Russian singers, opera singers, further shadappin them. And he was
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 14: by then he was almost eighty years old, and he
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 14: was very close to my how should they say, acting god,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 14: Michael Chekhov when they lived in California. Now he lives
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 14: in Rome. I mean he passed away, but at that
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 14: time he lived in Rome. But before that he lived
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 14: in California and worked with Michael Chekhov all the time.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 14: So just being together with him and listening to his
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 14: stories about Michael Chekhov, who, as I said, is my
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 14: acting God, was absolutely incredible.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 6: I can imagine.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 5: So after the film comes out and you get a
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 5: chance to see it, what were your kind of thoughts
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 5: in the film. What did you think about the film
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 5: once it came out.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 14: I thought that it deserves more than you know. It
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 14: was a huge hit in Europe, right and here it
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 14: played on a couple of weeks. I think it was
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 14: a really ease. It played in teachers, but it was
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 14: like when we came in and went, I mean, it
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 14: wasn't it wasn't a big thing. Later people said when
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 14: they started showing him a cable and people started more
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 14: and more more people saw it. But but in teachers.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 14: I don't think we did very well in America. But
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 14: in Europe it was like the greatest hit for several years.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 6: Right, Well, yeah, I mean it.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 5: I think the film inherently is more tailored to European
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 5: audiences in.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 14: Some respects because of the pace.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: I also think.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 5: That yeah, I think also that you know, some of
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 5: the themes that the movie talks about might not be
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 5: something that American audiences are inherently interested in, because the
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 5: film has a little bit of philosophical musings somewhat towards
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: kind of the end of the film when they're talking about,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 5: you know, the the purpose of laughter in regards to
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 5: the church.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 14: Yeah, and it's about the church, a lot about the
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 14: how church reacts, to how oppressive the church was at
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 14: that time, and how difficult it was for somebody to
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 14: go against the Green right.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 5: And you know, I think that in the eighties, the
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 5: American audiences maybe just didn't have an interest in that.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 14: Unfortunately, Yeah, I was. I was, be honestly, I was
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 14: a little bit disappointed because I thought that having this
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 14: kind of cast and the subject and the quality of
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 14: the film, I mean, it's really it was brilliantly shot,
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 14: it would get more attention. But unfortunately they didn't.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 5: My last question for you is is there anything you're
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 5: working on now that you want to talk about.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 14: I did the film, which uh, I think it's my
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 14: second horror film, which which I don't know what's happening with.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 14: It's called The Hive, uh, and it's not really something
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 14: I want to talk about. Uh.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 5: And I'm not a fan of not a fan of horror.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 14: No, it's kind of strange. It was a very string
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 14: it was a little budget film and not before I
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 14: see it that I don't want to talk about.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 6: I understand the laity.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 14: I was doing mostly television. No, nothing, not nothing. I
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 14: can talk about it about something that I'm trying to
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 14: make it film myself. But that's another story.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 6: Are you are you writing, directing or just directed?
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 14: I wrote it. I don't know if I if I'll
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 14: be directing it. But we're talking about uh producing it
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 14: with one company, and there will be a couple of
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 14: my friends, Richard Dreifus probably we will join us Leanna Douglas.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 14: But it's a little bit too early to talk about
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 14: a big feeling the works.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 12: Hi.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 15: I'm Susan and I'm Sharon, and we're the hosts of
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 15: Eighties tv Ladies. Check us out wherever you find your
• 1:49:42
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• 1:49:56
  Speaker 9: Eighties tv Ladies is the place to go. Please join us. Hi.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 7: This is HP from Noise Junkies and this is Father
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 7: them Alone from dark Destinations?
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 12: Please join us as we examine one of the greatest
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 12: sitcoms in television history. Taxi on Night, Mister Walters at
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 12: Taxi Podcast.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 7: Good night, mister Walters, Good evening, and welcome to Night Gallery.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Rod, and I want to welcome everyone to
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 7: Midnight Viewing, where once a month we talk all about
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 7: your follow up to The Twilight Zone, Rod Serling's Night Gallery.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 7: They say it's Rod three Ling to Night Gallery, and
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 7: it isn't really Rod to Las Night Gallery.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 3: It's somebody else's.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 7: Oh, we know, we talk about it a lot. Your
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 7: curators at Midnight Viewing are the projection Boots, Mike White.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: What can happen to human beings when trust is wiped
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: out by suspicion.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: And culture casts?
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: Chris Stashio small boy Incased in the Crystal.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 4: Ball, and I'm Father Alone, the kind of thing that
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 4: usually infest nightmares.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 7: Join us monthly at Midnight Viewing the Night Gallery Podcast
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 7: at Weirdingwaymedia dot Com.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 3: Doesn't remotely belong to me. I have no proprietary interest
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: in that at.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 5: All, So I guess this is the last episode of
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 5: Mike White. May if you want to listen to that
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 5: Avengers bonus episode that we're doing. You can find it
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 5: over at Patreon dot com slash culture cast. But that
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 5: is it for Mike White May Mike White and I
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 5: are now going to do an episode every now and
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 5: then for the next rest of the year, because that's
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 5: the way it works. That's the way it works, Folcus,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 5: because we both have our own shows. Shockingly, it's not
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 5: like and Teller, but it's not too dissimilar. Speaking of
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 5: that show, Mike, where can people find you when you're
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 5: not here with me doing my show together?
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 4: Well, Chris, it's so convenient. They can find your show
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 4: here and they can find my show here here being
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 4: Weirdingwaymedia dot com. All the good stuff is there except
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 4: for Richard's show.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 8: And you can find mine here also, which is basically
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 8: anywhere you're listening to a podcast, which is probably Spotify
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 8: or Apple and if you're listening anywhere else, just come on.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 4: Why why would you do that?
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: That's that's always my appeal to people. It's like, just
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 5: just go one of those two places.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 9: Please.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 5: You're getting an option. It's not a great option either way,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 5: but you do have an option. Or I guess if
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 5: you want to listen on YouTube, just kidding. Quote, We
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 5: don't make money on YouTube. That's why we don't provide
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 5: speaker integration anymore. I think what we should just do
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 5: from now on is just do like the Simpsons does
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 5: and just rag on spreaker on every episode. We do
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 5: like the Simpsons do with Fox, just to see if
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 5: they'll actually do anything, because at this point we've never
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 5: been anything. But what's the term an open wallet for
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 5: them to take money out, So you know, maybe it's
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 5: time for us to piss down their throat for a second.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 5: But yeah, if you want to listen to our podcast,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 5: find it on iTunes and Spotify. That's where you can
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 5: go to listen to it, because anywhere else is just
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 5: not as important. Richard and Mike, thank you so much
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 5: for joining me. Richard for joining us, and Mike for
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 5: programming a rather successful month apparently other than the movie
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 5: I picked, which, okay.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 4: Maybe maybe I'll read something tonight and I'll just fall
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 4: in love with the movie.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 9: What are you gonna read a book that drives you?
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 9: You're gonna read the Necronomicon tonight and lose your mind.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna lick my finger and turn the page here,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 4: and yeah, yeah.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna read something tonight that tomorrow prevents me from
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 5: having to talk about this piece of shit fitho.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 4: I will talk as much as Eddie Izzard does.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 5: In the film Good Lord Boy signing up for that
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 5: huh and uh yeah, as always, we'll catch you on
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 5: the next episode. By the Bist students of The Boss.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 8: Books peopless
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 15: Steps in the Blings to the BS in the Boss
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 15: for the Books cost