Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / Richard Speck & The Townhouse Massacre

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Richard Speck & The Townhouse Massacre · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:20
  Hey, everybody. In serial killer country.
• 0:21
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian Joyner,
• 0:24
  and this is when Killers get caught, a podcast devoted to
• 0:27
  deep dives, into the lives and psyche.
• 0:28
  So, the Killer's we love to learn about about each week.
• 0:31
  Brian, I find a True Crime Story that resonated with us and then
• 0:34
  I discuss one, well-known or lesser known killer and go into
• 0:36
  their childhood lives, methodology.
• 0:38
  And most importantly how they got caught and then we'll get a
• 0:42
  little spooky and learn something about the Cryptids or
• 0:44
  the supernatural. And before we start, we just
• 0:49
  want to let everybody know that our patreon is live.
• 0:53
  Yes. Okay.
• 0:56
  We have 40 Years of start at $5 a month up to $50 a month and
• 1:00
  you get everything from an extra episode of conspiracy Crypt
• 1:06
  which is us talking about conspiracies.
• 1:08
  We have merged discounts access to a patreon only Discord so you
• 1:12
  can have I guess what? Like a monthly private chat with
• 1:16
  us. And speaking of March March is
• 1:18
  absolutely available online Killers, get caught.com, just
• 1:22
  click on the store, get stickers, hats, crop tops, and
• 1:24
  regular t-shirts and carry all the way up to 5x and sizes.
• 1:28
  So if you've wanted to support us, this is the easiest way.
• 1:32
  And we have a patron goal of 500 patrons.
• 1:34
  And I've agreed to allow Brian to make me stay at the Lizzie
• 1:38
  Borden house and participate in a ghost time.
• 1:41
  It's gonna be fun. If we get 500 patrons, it's
• 1:44
  going to be fine. I don't know.
• 1:47
  You know what? When I was editing a last week's
• 1:51
  episode and you mentioned blankets and in the beginning
• 1:55
  and then I was like oh yeah you get blankets, do it?
• 1:57
  Like I did. I just hear you say get blankets
• 2:00
  and emerge stop. I was like, oh my God, not just
• 2:04
  do that. That's all right.
• 2:05
  I'm sorry. You can't get blankets.
• 2:07
  I keep saying, I want to buy a blanket.
• 2:08
  Also, some pillows. So yeah, there's because I want
• 2:12
  to put them in the back of my videos so that's it has like the
• 2:14
  logo right there. Next to me.
• 2:15
  Look once we get we're Gonna get fitted sheets and then regular
• 2:18
  sheet has to make you have when Killers.
• 2:22
  Get caught bed. Yes.
• 2:23
  Oh my God, wouldn't want that. You know what, though they would
• 2:26
  want it. If it had like every single like
• 2:29
  picture of a serial killer or something, they'll be awesome.
• 2:33
  But what it will say, if I am working on a very secret secret
• 2:38
  thing that's probably going to be like a year for us to create
• 2:41
  my God, but it's very cool and I have somebody doing the art
• 2:44
  slowly for it. So okay.
• 2:47
  But yeah. That's just your little
• 2:50
  reminders of ways you can support us.
• 2:51
  And this week in True Crime, I have a weird story and this
• 2:57
  person has a person who did this crime has not been caught, but
• 3:02
  it's weird. I'm down for weird stories.
• 3:05
  So the headline says, body of missing Oklahoma team or it
• 3:12
  says, actually read it because it's a horrible headline, but
• 3:14
  body of Oklahoma team missing, since 2018 is found dead.
• 3:18
  Decomposed in a basement. Homeowner says he had no idea.
• 3:24
  That's a little sauce right there, my guy.
• 3:26
  Yeah, absolutely. Well, the woman's name was
• 3:29
  Margarita. They called her Maggie Sandoval.
• 3:31
  She was 19 years old when she vanished in 2018.
• 3:34
  I guess it's near Oklahoma University and they're trying to
• 3:39
  figure out like who did this in general.
• 3:41
  But it's a whole lot of weird stuff.
• 3:44
  So her family realized she was missing when she stopped calling
• 3:46
  her mom, which is, you know, pretty normal when you're in
• 3:48
  college and for three years, nobody knew anything.
• 3:51
  And then they got an anonymous tip.
• 3:54
  To search a house in Norman Oklahoma, for a dead body in the
• 4:01
  basement, they found a large black box and according to the
• 4:04
  police report, the body was wrapped in numerous layers of
• 4:08
  thick plastic, pretty much 20 to 30 layers of plastic Norma's,
• 4:13
  police detectives Sean, Judy wrote that officer saw a liquid
• 4:17
  leaking from the box, as well as insects escaping.
• 4:20
  And then when they got closer and smelled, the odor of
• 4:23
  decomposition, Opposition. They called in the crime scene
• 4:24
  investigators. They've since identified that
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  this is Maggie and they're trying to figure out the cause
• 4:31
  of death right now. What's interesting is that like
• 4:34
  the homeowner is like I have no idea.
• 4:37
  He liked when they came to his door with the search warrant.
• 4:39
  He was like, I don't know about a body but sure, come on in.
• 4:42
  Yeah. Now she's been missing since
• 4:48
  2018 and the current homeowner moved in in 2019, but he allowed
• 4:55
  one of his friends to like, store the stuff from his
• 4:58
  apartment in his basement. This all just seems Very weird.
• 5:05
  And that friend was someone related to Maggie Sandoval?
• 5:11
  Oh, like related related or like they were like friends with her.
• 5:15
  So it does the friend who stored the items is a relative of
• 5:18
  Sandoval who had been living at an address where she had been
• 5:22
  receiving her social security payments, because she had a
• 5:26
  disability, Her sister says that they had actually wanted to
• 5:33
  legally take over like her caretaking and so there's a lot
• 5:38
  of like layers to this like was she killed for Social Security
• 5:41
  payments? Yeah.
• 5:43
  But people knew she was like Dad immediately, there's just so
• 5:46
  many unanswered questions. Like first first thing that's
• 5:50
  weird, not on this call. And in the homeowner doesn't
• 5:52
  know, so that it's not on his caller.
• 5:54
  Must have been the person who did this Ray, So goodness and
• 6:00
  then. Okay.
• 6:01
  And then for the homeowner yet, this black box in your basement,
• 6:04
  you don't question. He'd never go down into the
• 6:06
  basement and all exactly as you have like your washer and dryer
• 6:08
  up on the second floor which is side note.
• 6:10
  My ideal living situation that my washer and dryers on the same
• 6:14
  floor as my bedroom. Because who wants to walk down
• 6:16
  two flights of steps to wash your clothes but like so did he
• 6:19
  never go in the basement? Is that the situation?
• 6:21
  Because I feel like if you checked it out at all, it had a
• 6:24
  weird smell. And another thing that was
• 6:27
  interesting to me, Is what's the weather like in Oklahoma that
• 6:31
  she still decomposing three years later, was she at some
• 6:34
  point Frozen? And then it started to thaw
• 6:37
  because after three years, there should not be insects and
• 6:40
  leakage happening, I mean, but did the plastic slow down.
• 6:45
  I just want thinking that's what I'm thinking the the layers of
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  plastic may have slowed it down and then after a while, it just
• 6:51
  started leaking out. We have a search warrant was May
• 6:55
  14th, they've just discovered her identity.
• 6:58
  Recently after going to have to do lots of things.
• 7:01
  But yeah, so that's that's like it's so interesting to me.
• 7:07
  That's why I want to go to the Body Farm.
• 7:09
  God I just want to know all the different things that can happen
• 7:13
  and how it affects you. It's just I don't know.
• 7:15
  That's it's, it's very interesting that story and it's
• 7:20
  very weird. And also one of the things
• 7:23
  that's interesting to me is that whenever I About like someone
• 7:29
  died in their apartment and people didn't know people like
• 7:31
  how didn't people know the smell and I like always work out the
• 7:34
  story that like literally oh yeah four doors down somebody
• 7:38
  died and we didn't know. Yeah like and all it just
• 7:42
  smelled weird. Like I don't know how to explain
• 7:44
  it and then when I've been Googling like this, the the
• 7:47
  bacteria that happens when you begin to decompose or like once
• 7:50
  you really get into the gross bits of decomposition, they're
• 7:55
  talking about hundreds of different, smells hundreds of
• 7:57
  different, Bacterias like and they all give off different
• 8:00
  smells at different times and like because we didn't get the
• 8:03
  gross gross. It just smelled like weird.
• 8:07
  It's not weird. Smell it smells extra sweet.
• 8:11
  But in a way that was really sweet.
• 8:13
  Yeah. But in a gross way and so people
• 8:15
  reported it to the apartment complex and I went to work and
• 8:20
  then when I guess during the day they like opened, everybody's
• 8:23
  apartment to see where the smell was coming from, and eventually
• 8:26
  they got to his Yeah, discovered it.
• 8:29
  But yeah, so, I'm like there's so many questions, because I'm
• 8:32
  like, what was what there had to have been some scent, but what
• 8:37
  was the set? Yeah.
• 8:38
  And this relative that store their stuff in this home, they
• 8:43
  just worried contacted at all. Well, one of Maggie's relative.
• 8:47
  Exactly. So then whoever the homeowner is
• 8:49
  he is, somehow involved in this circle connected, and then.
• 8:53
  Yeah. And then the sister said that
• 8:54
  because she had a mental illness, other members of the
• 8:57
  family, wanted to become her primary caretakers to get her,
• 9:00
  Social Security payment. Some like it's a massive family
• 9:03
  cover-up. Hmm.
• 9:05
  Of people trying to like, it's gonna sound something like that.
• 9:08
  Yeah, I mean, I have it a couple times and I lived in
• 9:11
  Philadelphia, they found like elderly, people, like locked in
• 9:14
  like other family members basements and they were just
• 9:16
  like collecting their Social Security checks.
• 9:19
  Yeah. It happened a few times.
• 9:20
  When I lived in Philly. Wow, I was like, we got to look
• 9:23
  out for our elders. People are fucking depraved,
• 9:26
  apparently. Now, you got also look Gout for
• 9:28
  your family members who are disabled to because definitely
• 9:31
  shh. But anyway, that was my story
• 9:33
  for the week. What you got for me?
• 9:35
  God, starting off with a friggin bang and the, the person I talk
• 9:38
  about it doesn't get any better. Well this week.
• 9:44
  All right. Really?
• 9:46
  This headline to you says Brighton cat.
• 9:49
  Killer is Steve both quit. Quit quit.
• 9:54
  He's 54. He is jailed for five years for
• 9:57
  killing Nine, Cats and maiming. Seven War.
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  Where did this happen? Every nine months, animal
• 10:02
  cruelty campaign. This happened in East Sussex.
• 10:07
  Okay? You said bright and I was like
• 10:08
  Island, only bright 90's in the UK.
• 10:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:13
  Why was he just marking cats? I'm not sure, but then he better
• 10:18
  hope the internet doesn't get a hold of him.
• 10:20
  Goodness gracious, but it's says actual real Navy.
• 10:24
  Gunner. Dubbed, the Brighton cat killer
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  has been jailed for 25 years after being found guilty for
• 10:29
  killing. I catch him eating 7, and this
• 10:31
  has happened over what to say. That's actually a total of 15.
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  It cats. He attacked.
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  Yeah, succeeded in murdering nine of them, you know, 16?
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  Yeah. And seven just survived.
• 10:42
  His attack. Yeah, and this happened for nine
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  months. Oh wow.
• 10:48
  To a month. Yeah, so it says he approached
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  animals that work, you know, Passover coaster house, you
• 10:54
  know, outdoor cats after is Neighbors pets.
• 10:58
  Well, closer, their house. I'm not sure his house, but, you
• 11:01
  know, he would just appreciate he just be walking around like
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  this cat lives there. I know you live there, so I'm
• 11:06
  gonna kill you by that would be like, you know, I can't stand
• 11:10
  you. I don't know if it was this is
• 11:12
  way worse than that lady. Who likes stole a cat when they
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  Ubers and that's what I thought of like.
• 11:17
  When I saw this story and I was like, another cat story.
• 11:21
  Lovely. Wow.
• 11:23
  People are just, I don't know why you so mean to cats cats are
• 11:26
  well, awesome. Okay.
• 11:29
  It says, his Killing Spree, brought fear to pet owners
• 11:32
  across the seaside resort, who was too scared to let their cats
• 11:36
  out between October 2018 in June, She was 19.
• 11:42
  He's got the you're not supposed to let your kids out because
• 11:44
  they like destroy local birds the cats.
• 11:48
  Yeah. Like if you can keep them
• 11:50
  inside, I mean that makes sense. So, I mean more than likely when
• 11:54
  the everyone was afraid to take, let their cats out the bird
• 11:57
  population, flourish, any suspect, it probably
• 12:00
  skyrocketing, he's probably helping out in his own stupid
• 12:04
  way but yeah, he was caught after an owner of One killed cat
• 12:12
  set up a CCTV overlooking Alleyway outside his house and
• 12:16
  call him attacking his final victim.
• 12:18
  Good job. Yeah.
• 12:20
  But yeah, did he have anything to say about this when he got
• 12:24
  caught? I mean, there's probably a
• 12:26
  video, there's a video of him being questioned about it.
• 12:30
  I've watched it, I just want to know, like, did he say anything?
• 12:34
  I'm pretty sure he has something to say about it.
• 12:36
  I was he just like y'all can leave me alone.
• 12:39
  Hey, leave me alone. Let me kill these cats.
• 12:41
  Yeah. Oh my God.
• 12:45
  But yeah, there's I mean there's just I like to Justice the
• 12:49
  Justice True Crime Story is I find they're really nice because
• 12:53
  they're Justice for the the cat population and their owners so
• 12:58
  well. I mean all this is people are
• 13:01
  set. That's sad.
• 13:02
  Yeah yeah bummer When Killers get caught is sponsored by the
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  And make sure you tell Brittany that I sent you. - speaking of
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  bombers. Oh yeah, we heading into another
• 14:43
  Massacre. This is one of the the first
• 14:46
  random just killing massacres in the US.
• 14:53
  And I was reminded of this killer because I covered one of
• 14:56
  his victims in my women who survived series on Tick Tock,
• 15:01
  and well, if I say the crime of the century, do you know what
• 15:06
  I'm talking about? Probably not, or the townhouse
• 15:08
  Massacre, definitely not happened in Chicago, July 13th,
• 15:14
  into July 14th, 1966, this man killed eight, nursing students.
• 15:19
  His name is Richard Speck I know that name.
• 15:22
  Mhm. Interested me for a couple
• 15:24
  reasons. Well, first thing is that I find
• 15:26
  it interesting that this might be one of the first instances of
• 15:31
  I was too drunk and high to remember murdering eight people
• 15:37
  and then he somehow managed to avoid the death penalty, but
• 15:43
  after he died a video where he and other inmates were pretty
• 15:48
  much having a drug-fueled orgy. Was mailed to the press and he
• 15:56
  was very famously. Quoted in that video, that was
• 15:58
  shown to politicians saying. If they knew how much fun I was
• 16:01
  having in here, they would cut me loose.
• 16:05
  Hmm, so that like sort of reignited, the conversation on
• 16:11
  capital punishment and the 90s when that video was released.
• 16:15
  Well, there you can still see clips of it?
• 16:17
  You you can they don't show the the sex, right?
• 16:20
  Of course. Yeah, well yeah, that's this guy
• 16:25
  is weird and it's just us a lot. You're going to sympathize with
• 16:32
  him in some ways and then in other ways not so much.
• 16:36
  Okay? But we'll start with the humble
• 16:39
  beginnings of Richard. Benjamin spec born on December
• 16:43
  6, 1941 he was the seventh of eight children born in the small
• 16:47
  town of Kirkwood Illinois shortly after he was born his
• 16:50
  father Benjamin And moved them to Monmouth.
• 16:52
  So that Dad could work in a warehouse, Dad wasn't really
• 16:55
  highly educated, and he did a lot of hard labor jobs to
• 16:58
  support his family. Richard and his younger sister.
• 17:02
  Carolyn were significantly younger than the four older
• 17:05
  sisters. And two older brothers.
• 17:10
  Because of that, Richard definitely was very close to his
• 17:12
  dad. But Dad worked like really long
• 17:15
  hours because he was the sole Breadwinner.
• 17:16
  And so pretty much, he had his hyper-religious mother, Mary
• 17:21
  Margaret and his sister. Caroline was really his only
• 17:25
  like friend when he was growing up and the both of them
• 17:28
  definitely had one hell of a time dealing with their moms
• 17:31
  religious Obsession. Look, if you're a kid who grew
• 17:33
  up near any sort of fundamentalism, they should
• 17:36
  sound pretty familiar, you know, the punishment for acting out.
• 17:40
  At all doing childish. Things is damnation in Hell
• 17:43
  Fire. And on top of that, Mary was
• 17:49
  what's called a teetotaler which was a mid 19th century, movement
• 17:53
  of people who abstained from alcohol.
• 17:58
  So, and it's like, it's not enough for you to abstain.
• 18:03
  You got to be a little bit overbearing to like, you gotta,
• 18:06
  you gotta push your beliefs on people, too.
• 18:09
  Huh. Mary was definitely a little bit
• 18:11
  jealous of the relationship between Richard and Benjamin
• 18:14
  because she had raised all the other children exclusively.
• 18:17
  Hmm. And so here's the little boy and
• 18:20
  like, they, like, you have children.
• 18:25
  So do you have a A child. That's more like you.
• 18:29
  I mean they're both equal parts me but Cassandra.
• 18:33
  I'd say she acts more like me because like well, that's funny
• 18:36
  because all I hear when we're on live stream.
• 18:38
  Is that girl screaming her head off?
• 18:40
  Okay, I'm pretty sure I was like them.
• 18:42
  Well, I just went like the thing here.
• 18:44
  Was that Benjamin was a very quiet calm guy.
• 18:47
  And so was Richard. And so I think that that sort of
• 18:51
  energy was something that they both kind of I've done.
• 18:56
  So Mary Margaret, like I said, she's a good standard, she's
• 19:01
  hyper-religious and then she starts kind of suffering from
• 19:04
  empty nest syndrome. As all of the older children are
• 19:06
  moving out getting married. She like, like when I say
• 19:10
  struggling, I mean, like sobbing.
• 19:13
  When she had to send Richard and Carolyn to school, like, big bad
• 19:17
  arm, In school, Richard was polite, but he struggled with
• 19:21
  reading and paying attention and they realized that he needed
• 19:25
  glasses, but he hated them and he wouldn't wear them unless his
• 19:28
  dad told him to, and he hated it because he didn't like when
• 19:32
  people looked at him, he actually disliked any attention
• 19:35
  of any form. He wouldn't read him publicly.
• 19:38
  If he was, he wouldn't read publicly in class if he was
• 19:40
  called on. This was something that the
• 19:45
  school was trying to work on with him and then when he was
• 19:49
  six in 1947, Benjamin died from a heart attack.
• 19:54
  Oh no. And this is really hard on
• 19:56
  Richard, I believe it. Like I said, they had that
• 19:58
  really calm quiet Bond and all, you know, fix your old.
• 20:02
  Richard wanted was to grow up and be like his dad.
• 20:05
  You know, I've spoken about the loss of my mother and the way
• 20:07
  that I walked around like pretty aimless for the next like two
• 20:10
  years after she died the same. Hang up in here to richer, but
• 20:14
  he was only six. He couldn't understand how his,
• 20:17
  like, Mom and his sisters and even his teachers, like move on.
• 20:22
  And for the next three years, he refused to do any of his
• 20:24
  schoolwork, even the stuff. He knew, how to do.
• 20:27
  He wears glasses, he stopped being like this polite kid who
• 20:31
  was a little bit troubled, and he became just sort of a
• 20:33
  problem. Hmm, his family was just like,
• 20:38
  I'll get over this grief is like that, you know, but then when
• 20:42
  Richard, Was nine. His mom was traveling home from
• 20:45
  Chicago. And she met a man on the train.
• 20:48
  Oh, and his name was Carl. Sandburg, Carl was this
• 20:52
  traveling salesman and he was he like extreme opposite of
• 20:54
  Benjamin's back. He was a smooth talker.
• 20:57
  He was a drunkard, he smoked. And this 100% went against
• 21:02
  Mary's religious morals, but he didn't matter cause she was just
• 21:07
  oh, my god, of course button. What's that called dick-notized
• 21:12
  listening? She invited him to meet her
• 21:14
  family, like from that meeting on the train.
• 21:18
  She said, come meet my kids, you know, mmm and Carl spun this
• 21:22
  yarn that he was going to be a man who could help her raise her
• 21:25
  children. Richard didn't approve, it all.
• 21:28
  He was openly hostile to this man like but not in like a way
• 21:32
  of like you know like fighting him or anything.
• 21:34
  But like just in the way that like when kids don't like you,
• 21:36
  they just be blank face. Yeah.
• 21:38
  They let you know they don't think so man.
• 21:43
  I got more involved with Carl and this is only a couple weeks
• 21:49
  and so like his older sister Sarah was kind of like the
• 21:52
  surrogate mom and like, Sarah, loved her younger siblings bird.
• 21:55
  Richard saw her is like, just an extension of mom, so he didn't
• 21:58
  really. So mind you after just a couple
• 22:04
  weeks of knowing this man, it's May 1950.
• 22:09
  She takes the whole family on a train ride and doesn't tell any
• 22:12
  of the children where they're going and they show up at a
• 22:16
  church fuck. As she gets, married to Carl.
• 22:18
  I'm fucking knew it. Come on.
• 22:20
  Richard. As disgusted as if and then he
• 22:24
  was extra upset because Carl also signed the papers to adopt
• 22:28
  him. Oh, come on.
• 22:30
  And Like, he was unhappy to the point where any time someone
• 22:34
  called him, Richard Lindberg, he was like, no, that's not my
• 22:38
  name. Let me ask you.
• 22:43
  Is there like a thing where kids can say, I don't want to be
• 22:46
  adopted by you. I don't think so.
• 22:48
  When you're so little, you don't get to make that choice.
• 22:50
  He was only nine years old. Yeah.
• 22:52
  But I'm like I honestly don't like you sir.
• 22:55
  Please don't you know what you if you want.
• 22:57
  It happens all the time though. My god, I've got personal
• 23:01
  stories of friendships where people like just meet someone
• 23:05
  and move to another state. I'm just like you just upgraded
• 23:08
  your whole family for somebody. You just met what is wrong with
• 23:11
  you? But regardless this was the
• 23:15
  first time that I think, Richard very much begin to resent his
• 23:19
  mother and the fact that she blindsided him with this
• 23:24
  marriage and she didn't seem to care about how it affected, his
• 23:27
  feelings at all. Because like he was so upset,
• 23:32
  they allowed Richard and Carolyn to go back to Illinois.
• 23:37
  Well, Mom stayed in Texas with Carl.
• 23:40
  That's where Carl lived. So so he could finish out the
• 23:44
  school year because it was May so you'll have like another
• 23:46
  month and they stayed with Sarah and they were like, well, you
• 23:51
  know, maybe once he's got some distance from the situation, you
• 23:54
  know, it'll be fine but like he just sunk into a deep depression
• 23:58
  that nobody could pull him out of like he'd been kind of
• 24:01
  failing at school before, but now he was barely attending and
• 24:05
  when he did show up, he didn't talk to anybody who was there.
• 24:07
  If a teacher spoke to him, it was like, you didn't say words
• 24:10
  to him. Oh, wow.
• 24:11
  But the school was Like, we know he's moving.
• 24:13
  So like whatever was going to pass him and like her hands, the
• 24:16
  situation. So then everybody moved to the
• 24:20
  world town of Santo Texas, which is about 60 miles away from Fort
• 24:23
  Worth Texas, and Mary kind of got the shock of her life.
• 24:29
  When she walked into a house full of empty, whiskey bottles
• 24:32
  in every room ashtrays the whole house stank like old tobacco.
• 24:40
  Oh, so you didn't know this before your marriage.
• 24:42
  The man. Oh man, you know that and the
• 24:45
  thing is Carl made a lot more money than Benjamin ever did.
• 24:49
  But it didn't matter because he spent everything that he didn't
• 24:52
  give to marry for the housekeeping on booze and
• 24:55
  tobacco. And then when she got there, the
• 24:58
  town was talking about Carl's 25-year criminal history.
• 25:02
  Excuse me, look for jury drunk, diving, drunk, driving.
• 25:08
  And you just married him after a couple weeks, she's she's
• 25:12
  devastated because you know she made a commitment to move back
• 25:18
  home. It's okay.
• 25:21
  Well Carl wasn't okay, Dad to Carolyn, he would like bring her
• 25:25
  a little like gifts and stuff when he came back from his trips
• 25:28
  and he definitely kind of loved Mary at least in the beginning,
• 25:32
  but he was a complete and total piece of garbage to Richard.
• 25:36
  He was spiteful because the little boy had liked him and so
• 25:40
  he would take any chance that he could to verbally, like, cut him
• 25:43
  down. Well, sir.
• 25:44
  There's a reason why I don't like you, your asshole.
• 25:47
  Well and see when Richard wouldn't respond, then Carl
• 25:49
  would launch into These insults that did what they were supposed
• 25:52
  to, which was undermined the like team sees.
• 25:55
  Tiny bit of confidence is child had and so like, Richard been
• 25:59
  angry and sad and just full of Despair for so long.
• 26:04
  And Carl became the face of this monster for him.
• 26:09
  Carl was the reason why he was embarrassed so easily he had
• 26:12
  trouble. He was awkward.
• 26:13
  Carl was the problem and by extension.
• 26:15
  So it was Mary and Richard kind of put up with it.
• 26:18
  One day until Carl made a comment about About his father
• 26:22
  and Richard swung on his stepdad and Carl kind of just knocked
• 26:26
  him to the floor and laughed in his face.
• 26:28
  So then Richard went and grabbed a hammer from The Tackle Box and
• 26:32
  tried to attack him and Carl slapped it away, and the hammer
• 26:36
  hit Richard. And he like dropped.
• 26:39
  Oh, and Carl. Can't panic because he was just
• 26:41
  like, there's no way anyone's going to believe me that this
• 26:44
  was an accident because everyone knows that I can't stand this
• 26:47
  kid. They're going to I tried to kill
• 26:51
  him. Yeah, you got motive, sir.
• 26:52
  I'm sorry, but and he had tried to kill him.
• 26:55
  But what he did do was give Richard A traumatic brain injury
• 26:58
  at the age of 10 years old and there goes, yep.
• 27:01
  Always isn't it. Well, first you said religious
• 27:03
  mom and then you said bring injury.
• 27:05
  So I was like goddamn. Here we go, here we go.
• 27:08
  Carl solution was to move and they would move a lot in 1951.
• 27:15
  They moved to Dallas and the movie with the family moved 10
• 27:18
  more times over the next 12 years from Chua, crappier home
• 27:23
  every time. Hmm.
• 27:25
  Like worse than worst poverty, as they kept going.
• 27:30
  And what's worse here, is that even after the fact that like
• 27:33
  you, like conch to this kid in the brain, he couldn't stop
• 27:37
  being awful to him. And his mother didn't know about
• 27:41
  the brain injury by the way, Richard told her, that he'd been
• 27:44
  playing on the tire swing near the pond and he'd like, fall on
• 27:47
  and his, his his face. Hmm.
• 27:50
  I would have been like, no, this dude hit me.
• 27:52
  I don't like him. Why did you not know about it?
• 27:59
  Well, if he had this like anger and happening before after the
• 28:05
  injury, he really struggled with keeping his emotions in check
• 28:08
  and he start like flying, Into these very violent rages.
• 28:13
  In 1952 his brother, Robert was hit and killed by a drunk driver
• 28:19
  in 1950, that was Richards. It was that not the senior
• 28:25
  brother, but the one in the middle and, He kind of blame
• 28:33
  himself because he was like if we never left you know Monmouth
• 28:38
  then we would have all been together and this wouldn't have
• 28:40
  happened, you know, and about 12 years old, he started drinking.
• 28:46
  Strangely enough as much as he hated Carl and blamed Carl for
• 28:49
  all of the bad things in his life.
• 28:51
  He also mirrored some of the worst traits of a stepfather
• 28:56
  took on his bad habits and that was the drinking and he also
• 29:00
  began taking the random drugs that car left around the house
• 29:03
  as well. What the hell?
• 29:07
  What the hell? Yeah.
• 29:08
  He struggled through school. He repeated the eighth grade and
• 29:12
  then he failed ninth grade and he was just like, yeah I'm good
• 29:16
  and quit just before his 16th birthday.
• 29:19
  Like I said, this isn't surprising that he quit school
• 29:21
  because he barely spoke when he was there and he was usually
• 29:24
  drunk or high when he showed up, he got arrested the for the
• 29:29
  first time in 1955 when he passed out at a construction
• 29:32
  site. That's because he was wasted
• 29:37
  after that. He got arrested for pretty much
• 29:39
  every low-level crime, plausible that have trespassing,
• 29:43
  pickpocketing drunken disorderly possession, the cops got so used
• 29:47
  to seeing him that sometimes, if like a crime happened they would
• 29:50
  just stop by his house and be like.
• 29:52
  So you know, anything about this?
• 29:53
  And for some reason he didn't lie, So he would tell them if he
• 29:57
  did something wrong. I mean honest criminals by his
• 30:03
  late teens, he was still living with Carl and Mary but like it
• 30:06
  was barely, he spent most of his days and nights out in the
• 30:09
  street looking to score. Get a little brief moment of
• 30:13
  relief from his depression. If he had friends, he didn't
• 30:16
  really talk about him. He was a, as he chose the
• 30:21
  tattoo, he was on the road to hell and he got the infamous
• 30:25
  tattoo. Ooh, that would get him caught
• 30:27
  eventually it says born and raised hell on his arm.
• 30:29
  Oh nice. His family was like, he's going
• 30:32
  to die. They're going to knock on the
• 30:33
  door, and we're going to have to go identify his body.
• 30:39
  Interestingly enough, what happens?
• 30:41
  Next kind of change that trajectory a little bit.
• 30:44
  So Carl started spending more and more time away from home.
• 30:48
  He was tired of how Mary and Caroline were always like
• 30:52
  worried about Richard. And he was getting worried about
• 30:58
  Richard because the little boy that he bullied and abused was
• 31:01
  now grown ass man and he was like, if he wants to fight me, I
• 31:05
  might not be able to win. I'm sorry.
• 31:09
  It's just like yeah yeah. Consequences were you freaking
• 31:13
  actions dude? Well you know people abused
• 31:15
  children are cowards. Yes it's true.
• 31:18
  Karl used work as a means to lie about where he was going.
• 31:21
  But really what he was doing was he would go to these other
• 31:24
  cities and he would like find a girl there and He would like,
• 31:27
  just, you know, stay at her house and whore his way across
• 31:32
  the country, while trying to sell insurance and crap.
• 31:35
  And drinking, he said, being gone for weeks, then months.
• 31:40
  Then finally, he met a lady in California, and moved in with
• 31:43
  her and her children. And as Carl started, leaving
• 31:47
  more Richard started staying home.
• 31:51
  And when the postcard came saying that Carl was never
• 31:55
  coming back, Richard kind of went back to normal, he quit
• 32:00
  drinking and doing drugs. He got a job to help his mom and
• 32:03
  sister out at the 7Up Factory, and he pretty much told them,
• 32:08
  I'll do whatever you want me to do.
• 32:10
  It's a really crappy but it was consistent money way, more
• 32:13
  consistent than him like stealing he did begin to like
• 32:17
  work his way up to less awful jobs and Funny, because he was
• 32:22
  making less money than Carl had made.
• 32:24
  But he was giving his mother more money because he wasn't
• 32:27
  drinking away every paycheck, right, right.
• 32:29
  They finally had like a nice clean Home Free from bottles and
• 32:32
  the stink of tobacco. Well, Carolyn had a boyfriend
• 32:36
  that she was confident enough to introduce to the rest of the
• 32:40
  family. Richard was like, this is great,
• 32:44
  because he found Caroline's, need to be like, nice to him
• 32:47
  overbearing hate like he's like, I get it, you're my sister.
• 32:51
  Stir but like stop please. No, how no kisses.
• 32:57
  He was very repressed. He spent all his free time.
• 33:01
  Working. One of the things that happened
• 33:05
  here was that he was like the man of the house but he didn't
• 33:08
  have any power in the home even though this was all of his money
• 33:13
  and energy being used to keep the household running and this
• 33:17
  would be the first time that he got violent with a woman.
• 33:21
  One night, he was trying to talk to his mom about something and
• 33:24
  she dismissed his opinion and he beat the crap out of her, two
• 33:29
  broken eyes and a broken cheek. He was 19.
• 33:33
  My God that like I said, the first time he was violent
• 33:37
  towards women and it wouldn't be the last time he started
• 33:40
  drinking again because he used to get these horrible headaches.
• 33:43
  Obviously from the hammer he took to the head as a
• 33:46
  ten-year-old, you know, he never got checked out because no one I
• 33:51
  knew about it, Carolyn and Mary would smell the whiskey when he
• 33:55
  came in the door and just avoid him for the rest of the night.
• 34:00
  Because they were like, he's gonna hurt his sister.
• 34:02
  Next, probably the violence against Mary was seeing kind of
• 34:06
  differently by both women. Mary felt she deserved it
• 34:11
  because she married Carl and Carl had been abusive.
• 34:15
  However, Carolyn was blindsided by this violence, and she was
• 34:18
  very confused. She always saw the best in her
• 34:20
  brother. And so with this like confusion
• 34:24
  in her way, she viewed him, she started like focusing on her
• 34:28
  relationship with her boyfriend who she invited to be at the
• 34:33
  house more often. After that, that person became
• 34:39
  her husband, they got married, and he moved into the household.
• 34:42
  Her husband tentatively accepted Richard as the sort of weirdo of
• 34:48
  the family, but this was another male income in the house, so
• 34:53
  everybody was kind of living comfortably now, mmm.
• 34:57
  Nice, nice. Now, Richard was very like
• 35:01
  introverted. He didn't really enjoy doing
• 35:03
  pretty much anything social he specially didn't want to do
• 35:07
  things with his family, but there was one thing he liked.
• 35:10
  The Texas state fair. It's one of the biggest in the
• 35:13
  country and supposed to be one of the best like state fairs to
• 35:16
  visit and in 1961 he was there and he met a girl.
• 35:21
  Her name was surely an app Malone, she was 15 and he was
• 35:25
  22. She assumed that he was younger
• 35:27
  because he kind of Acts a little bit younger and they were both
• 35:31
  there like with their parents. Women and sexuality were a sore
• 35:36
  subject for Richard, his whole life religion had told him that
• 35:39
  sex and sexuality. Body were wrong and so like, he
• 35:42
  viewed like his mom and his sister as like pure and perfect.
• 35:47
  And so he pushed down like the feelings of Desire that he has
• 35:50
  for years. And so when he first meets,
• 35:54
  surely he definitely views her in the same way like she's just
• 35:57
  like beautiful virginal girl and like that day.
• 36:03
  Like they spent the day together, they held hands.
• 36:06
  And both the families thought that this was really cute, that
• 36:11
  his family, never mind their goodbyes at dusk.
• 36:14
  They learn that they both lived in Dallas and I like, oh, we'll
• 36:17
  meet up in Dallas. Back in Dallas, things moved a
• 36:21
  little quickly. Richard didn't know what a
• 36:23
  relationship was supposed to look like having only seen his
• 36:27
  stuck father or lecherous Carl, hmm.
• 36:30
  So he was like, I like to go drinking.
• 36:33
  You want to go drinking with me? Yes, let's go.
• 36:38
  He will win. You think that wasted day
• 36:40
  drinking and they ended up on a construction site, having sex
• 36:45
  and they both seem to really enjoy this.
• 36:47
  So they Added doing it all the time.
• 36:50
  Okay. I mean moderations a good thing
• 36:53
  too. Nope.
• 36:54
  Richard was that not a lot of his repressed Sexual Energy from
• 36:58
  his entire childhood. Shirley was like, we are
• 37:01
  obviously in love and Richard was like, yeah, well seal of
• 37:05
  same, all right. Same thing works for me.
• 37:08
  So, like it was interesting. Cause remember, I told you that
• 37:11
  he used women is like, perfect and pure.
• 37:13
  Uh-huh. So he was just like, well, you
• 37:14
  know, I bet you she wouldn't do this stuff.
• 37:16
  If we hadn't drank all day, like, that's I thought I've been
• 37:19
  corrupting her so he was just like, it's fine outside of the
• 37:24
  fact that like she gets wasted and we have sex.
• 37:27
  It's still perfect. Beautiful virginal.
• 37:28
  Surely well, maybe you sucking so wasted.
• 37:32
  Maybe well he was happy, nothing mattered, Young Love and then
• 37:41
  they were pregnant. Yay weeks later.
• 37:46
  Oh, lovely. So they were supposed to go out
• 37:50
  on a date and he was like, yo, you want to go to the bar?
• 37:53
  And she's like, I can't, why are you not high?
• 37:56
  So she's like, hey, can we go talk and there?
• 37:59
  She told him she was pregnant, both of their family was like,
• 38:02
  oh yeah. Y'all got to get married, of
• 38:04
  course. Yeah.
• 38:05
  So and they organized it so that like, it was very fast so that
• 38:09
  she was not showing Shirley's family, definitely expected him
• 38:13
  to To do the right thing and he absolutely married her.
• 38:15
  She moved into the house with his mom and his sister.
• 38:17
  And her husband Mary began teaching her.
• 38:20
  All the wifely thing she would do to be a good Homemaker.
• 38:24
  It wasn't the worst situation imaginable.
• 38:28
  I hear a but coming first, see these thoughts popped in for him
• 38:37
  when he met surely. She was that beautiful perfect
• 38:40
  virgin now she's not she's pregnant, she's a whore.
• 38:44
  You did it to her. Well, I gets worse one night,
• 38:49
  she declined him because she was tired and he held her down and
• 38:53
  he physically beat her and sexually assaulted her.
• 38:57
  Mmm. In fact, she refused to have sex
• 39:00
  with him from that point forward and he it pretty much was a
• 39:03
  daily occurrence that he would beat the crap out of her and
• 39:07
  rape her and Shirley was in a terrible position.
• 39:11
  She's pregnant. She's married to this monster.
• 39:13
  She doesn't have a job and she doesn't think she can go home
• 39:16
  her. Only friends were Carolyn and
• 39:18
  Mary who were also both afraid of him.
• 39:21
  Yeah. Even more.
• 39:23
  So after seeing what he done to her, Wasn't the sister's husband
• 39:31
  was still in the he was, and I wonder about that.
• 39:36
  It's a rough situation because there's definitely a time period
• 39:38
  in the past where it was like, maybe he beats his wife.
• 39:44
  I'm not a business to business. Hmm so I wonder if it was like
• 39:50
  that for them. Yeah but everybody in the house
• 39:53
  is afraid of him though. The webinar.
• 39:55
  Yeah. So he hasn't do anything when
• 39:56
  the other man's around, of course.
• 39:59
  Not. Okay.
• 40:01
  Well Richard stop taking extra shifts.
• 40:02
  He started drinking the headaches again.
• 40:05
  He was violent to pretty much ends our to everyone in the
• 40:07
  house when the Boos stopped helping with the headaches, he
• 40:10
  turned a pills. He started poly abusing drugs
• 40:12
  trying to find a way to self-medicate.
• 40:14
  It still abusing his wife pretty much every day, eventually
• 40:18
  started going back out onto the street and like not coming home,
• 40:23
  which did make the women in the household feel safer.
• 40:26
  But financially, they were like fuck.
• 40:28
  Yeah. You struggling.
• 40:29
  Again. Carolyn's has the most like
• 40:32
  listen, I can't pay for two wives and a mother-in-law and
• 40:34
  me. Cop started seeing Richard down
• 40:38
  at the precinct again. And when the heat from the
• 40:41
  Dallas PD was too much, he would hop on a train to a new town and
• 40:44
  start fights there. Why just don't fight because
• 40:49
  vitamin feel better. Oh my God.
• 40:51
  Surely kind of held onto the foolish notion that, you know,
• 40:55
  he's gonna get clean, and he's gonna get better for the baby
• 41:00
  and She really gave birth to Robbie Lynn's back on, July 5th.
• 41:05
  1962. And she was definitely alone
• 41:08
  when it happened, and that's because he was in prison.
• 41:13
  In, McKinney Texas, for putting a man in the hospital during a
• 41:16
  bar fight, when he came back to Dallas, Shirley and his daughter
• 41:20
  were gone, He tried to very much like insult and berate the
• 41:24
  information of his mom and sister but they were like, no
• 41:27
  thanks. Hmm.
• 41:29
  He was miserable not just because surely the horror
• 41:32
  thought poorly of him but because his mom and sister who,
• 41:36
  you know, are definitely still virginal Angels were mad at him.
• 41:42
  Okay, so he quits drinking. He's like, I'm going to prove to
• 41:45
  my mom and my sister. I'm a good man.
• 41:47
  He got his job back. But he started drinking again,
• 41:50
  and now, it was, like, starting fights at work and like he knew
• 41:54
  he was going to get fired and then he did something kind of
• 41:56
  stupid. So the employee checks would all
• 41:59
  get like, put together at the end of the week and this one
• 42:02
  spot. And so, Richard grabbed his
• 42:04
  check, and another man's, check course, he did.
• 42:06
  And he forged his coworker signature and cashed it.
• 42:09
  And then he like got real paranoid.
• 42:11
  He was like, they're going to show up at my door.
• 42:13
  I'm gonna get arrested. Oh my God. and so then he was
• 42:18
  like, when the police didn't show up unlike Sunday, he like
• 42:23
  broke into a grocery store and Because he didn't realize that
• 42:28
  like they empty the money out. Yeah which is what every
• 42:31
  business does and you always do that because you never want to
• 42:33
  have like a pile of cash on saying no sir.
• 42:38
  He was only able to steal three dollars that was left in the
• 42:41
  till. He also stole some beer after
• 42:44
  realizing what a terrible Vivi was, and then he went to work
• 42:49
  and he was promptly fired on the spot because they were like,
• 42:54
  you're the only person who would do this.
• 42:56
  And so he assumed the police already knew everything.
• 43:00
  So, he told them, he admitted to the fraud and the burglary, even
• 43:06
  though they didn't know anything about it.
• 43:08
  Thanks for the info. Yep.
• 43:10
  He just assumed they are. They knew that's why they were
• 43:12
  there at his job. And so he admitted to fraud and
• 43:15
  burglary charges and he was gonna go to jail for a total of
• 43:18
  forty seven dollars which in our money we're talking about 300
• 43:23
  bucks. So come on.
• 43:25
  No that's not, no, he's playing prison at Huntsville.
• 43:32
  Given a 60-month sense. Yeah. 12:18 year and a half.
• 43:37
  Sorry Batman. My part.
• 43:43
  He honestly was mostly left alone in the prison because he
• 43:46
  was emotionally unstable and they were just like, we're just
• 43:50
  gonna leave this weirdo alone, he made it through that I did
• 43:55
  right 60 months. Yeah I was wrong, 60 months in
• 43:57
  prison unharmed but covered in jail has tattoos when he came
• 44:01
  back home. A lot had changed Carolyn and
• 44:04
  her husband had moved out because they were expecting a
• 44:06
  baby. So Mary was like, sure you can
• 44:09
  come back but she was like smothering him and He hated it.
• 44:14
  Also, now without Caroline's husband, to stop Richard, he was
• 44:18
  able to like help his mom, bro information about Shirley
• 44:24
  Shirley originally struggled, but she had gotten contributions
• 44:28
  from her church, from Carolyn and Mary, and her own mother,
• 44:33
  had helped her. And, you know, she kind of
• 44:36
  bounced back. She was doing.
• 44:37
  All right. She had a baby, she met this
• 44:39
  guy, his name. All Richard knew was that his
• 44:42
  name was mr. Price.
• 44:43
  Ice and they were kind of taking it slow until mr.
• 44:45
  Price realize that, that she was like popo like he was like, oh,
• 44:50
  this is really bad. She shouldn't be living this
• 44:51
  way. And so he kind of like
• 44:53
  fast-track their relationship and so he was going to like
• 44:56
  marry her, but she was still married.
• 45:03
  Richard took this information, okay?
• 45:06
  First one thing it did was it, solidified in his mind Shirley
• 45:10
  is definitely a whore. Like all women are whores and
• 45:13
  this is totally her fault. Not mine because all women are
• 45:16
  whores. Yeah, of course, not my fault.
• 45:18
  I didn't do anything here. So, January 9th, 1965 a week
• 45:24
  after being released because he was actually released after only
• 45:26
  doing 12 months parole. He got wasted.
• 45:30
  He spent the last of his money on on booze and attack a random
• 45:34
  woman on the street. Oh my God, he got caught a few
• 45:36
  blocks away and was convicted of aggravated assault and put in
• 45:39
  prison again for 16 more months back to Huntsville.
• 45:44
  But what happened is that He ended up getting let out early
• 45:49
  because we supposed to be concurrent sentences.
• 45:52
  So he got released 10 months early because of a clerical
• 45:54
  error, the system was like, oh, he's just back in for a parole
• 45:58
  violation. Not a parole violation and 60,
• 46:00
  more months. So he reached out to his mom.
• 46:03
  Again, he got a job at a Meatpacking plant.
• 46:06
  Now, he was an ex-con twice over, so he didn't have a whole
• 46:08
  lot of choices for work. He worked there for three months
• 46:12
  dry. He was a delivery driver.
• 46:13
  He got in six accidents and somehow Didn't fire him until he
• 46:19
  just didn't show up enough times.
• 46:20
  Are you serious? I mean that, that tracks.
• 46:25
  He very like he got. He made a friend with a lady who
• 46:27
  owned a bar and her name is Jenny.
• 46:29
  It was called Jimmy's Lounge. Ginny was cool.
• 46:31
  She's 29 years old, X pro wrestler, who like it be
• 46:36
  feeling. And so he started spending all
• 46:39
  his time here, but like, it wasn't just to drink.
• 46:41
  It was also like to flirt with Jenny, I mean, who am I like
• 46:44
  this busy? Body Mary was like, where's he
• 46:49
  going? So like one day, she like
• 46:51
  followed him when he left the house and saw him.
• 46:54
  Go to James Barr and she's like, ah crap.
• 46:56
  He's drinking again. So she went inside to look and
• 46:59
  there. She saw him like sitting at the
• 47:01
  bar, like, just talking, mmm to Jenny and like, it raptured by
• 47:06
  Jenny and like, and she's like, oh, he likes a lady.
• 47:11
  So like she, when he came home, she like started trying to like
• 47:15
  get information. So is there?
• 47:17
  A new woman in your life. What's going on?
• 47:20
  And she really wanted him to like she really wanted to
• 47:24
  encourage him with this relationship because Mary only
• 47:27
  had a part-time job and Richard didn't have any money and she
• 47:30
  wanted him out. So she kind of manipulated him
• 47:34
  into thinking that he should be a father figure to Jenny's
• 47:38
  children because he very much was like upset about the whole.
• 47:42
  I can't see my kid thing. So what's really happening was
• 47:46
  that he would watch Jenny's kids and then he would spend the
• 47:49
  night with Jimmy. She got a free babysitter and he
• 47:53
  had his lust sated and his mom wasn't bothering him, but he's
• 47:57
  nice. Okay.
• 47:57
  When win-win of course, Richard can't just take joy, this nice
• 48:00
  arrangement. He started kind of getting
• 48:03
  bothered by the fact that the seem a little transactional for
• 48:05
  him. So he started sneaking down to
• 48:07
  the bar while she was working at night.
• 48:11
  And he found out. Okay, so this mmm, this is one
• 48:15
  thing that really irks me. January of, nineteen fifty-five,
• 48:19
  surely Falls for divorce. Mary's, the one who told him.
• 48:28
  Even though Richard is separated for years and living with
• 48:32
  another woman. Hmm, he is enraged why?
• 48:38
  Cuz You got another lady, doesn't matter who cares that
• 48:44
  night he was downstairs and he like saw a customer like give
• 48:50
  money to Jenny and like hold her hand too long and he freaked out
• 48:54
  starts beatin the crap out of this guy.
• 48:58
  He ended up being the man until Jenny and some of the customers
• 49:02
  friends like through him outside And then she ran over to the pay
• 49:07
  phone to call 911 and then he like pulled out his knife and
• 49:11
  nearly attacked her because he thought it was one of the men
• 49:14
  like she was shocked. She's like, this is the guy who
• 49:18
  I, yeah, leave around my children, exactly.
• 49:21
  So she never spoke to him again. Because it was a stabbing.
• 49:26
  The police took him in for questioning and for the first
• 49:29
  time in this criminal record, someone was like, maybe maybe he
• 49:34
  has some mental problems. Because the way the cops up that
• 49:40
  it was that his previous crimes had all been a means for him to
• 49:42
  get drugs or alcohol. But this was kind of the first
• 49:44
  crime of passion for him, and the cops kind of took pity on
• 49:47
  him. When they realized that he'd
• 49:49
  attacked, the man who'd been flirting with his girlfriend.
• 49:51
  And I like this and he was just defending his honor and the
• 49:54
  fight got a little bit out of hand.
• 49:56
  I'm pretty sure you pulled a knife out and like it ain't get
• 49:58
  out of here. It just started out of hand.
• 50:00
  Well, yeah, because the other guy wasn't aware that it was
• 50:02
  gonna be a fight. Exactly.
• 50:03
  He's just paying for his alcohol.
• 50:09
  The local police actually running on a push for jail time
• 50:11
  but because of his previous arrests they just couldn't
• 50:14
  ignore it. Mary.
• 50:15
  Mary realized if he went back to court he was going to serve for
• 50:18
  a really long time. So she got like a warrior for
• 50:21
  him and the lawyer argued everything down to a misdemeanor
• 50:26
  of creating a public disturbance.
• 50:28
  He took a plea deal and agreed to pay $10, which he couldn't
• 50:31
  pay because he was broke. So they put him in jail for
• 50:33
  three days, okay? He did his time, he went back to
• 50:36
  Mary's house but He was pretty convinced that Mary didn't want
• 50:40
  him there, and he knew he couldn't go to Jimmy's house
• 50:42
  because he was like, she might be my ass, and she's big enough
• 50:46
  to do. I'm pretty sure she would.
• 50:48
  Hmm, he started working like, odd jobs, to make money and move
• 50:51
  out. You still drinking Polly abusing
• 50:54
  any drugs. Could get his hand on after
• 50:56
  about two months. He see it, but a little bit of
• 50:57
  money and he bought a car from a guy.
• 50:59
  He met at a bar. His plan was to drive somewhere
• 51:02
  and start a new life because in his mind Dallas was just a whole
• 51:05
  lot of bad memories. The car was a crappy investment.
• 51:09
  So he was like, I'm going to break into a shop and still 70
• 51:12
  cartons of cigarettes out of back and he starts selling my
• 51:14
  the back of his car. He realized that everybody who
• 51:18
  bought those cigarettes from him was a witness so he abandons the
• 51:22
  car and grabs the cash a warrant out for his arrest the next day
• 51:27
  because he had been in the car and it still had all of the
• 51:30
  papers in it and so they went and they talked to the owner and
• 51:34
  the older was like oh yeah I still do this guy Richard.
• 51:37
  And so he hadn't abandoned house, he showed up at his mom's
• 51:39
  house. And she was like, you need to
• 51:41
  get the hell out of here. My neighbors already say they're
• 51:46
  looking for you. When she's like if you get
• 51:48
  caught, you're going to jail for a long time.
• 51:50
  This would be his 42nd arrest. Oh, my God, in Dallas.
• 51:54
  So Caroline shows up in her husband's car drives into a bus
• 51:57
  station, and buys them, a ticket to Chicago to avoid, going to
• 52:00
  jail. I mean, hey, he's family.
• 52:06
  So he goes to Chicago. His older sister, Martha picks
• 52:09
  him up. Martha was a lot older than him,
• 52:12
  so they barely had any of a relationship because she was
• 52:14
  already moved out of the house. By the time, he was like, born.
• 52:19
  I'm she had a husband and his name was Jean Thornton and Jean
• 52:22
  didn't really like Richard, but he was like, I'm a grin and bear
• 52:26
  this, this is my like wife's younger brother, he's a bum, but
• 52:30
  whatever. So Jean very much was like,
• 52:34
  yeah, you know what, you should move back to Monmouth.
• 52:36
  Didn't you love Mom meth? And like within days they would
• 52:42
  have mom lost her. Mom is freaking like, yeah, I
• 52:46
  know you just came here but guess what?
• 52:48
  There's a better. Please, listen, his last
• 52:50
  surviving, brother Howard, the oldest picks him up and gives
• 52:53
  him a job and while richer was still drinking, a lot of his
• 52:57
  paycheck, he did better there. Howard tried to, like, What is
• 53:01
  baby brother? But the two had very different
• 53:03
  Lifestyles like how it was just like a straight-laced kind of
• 53:07
  dude, and Richard was a druggie. So when Richard moved out to a
• 53:12
  hotel on March 25th that year, he was pretty happy about it.
• 53:19
  He ended up getting into a bar fight shortly after moving into
• 53:22
  the hotel, spent a couple days in jail.
• 53:24
  His job didn't fire him, but they were like if you miss one
• 53:27
  more day we're going to kick you out like before when he had
• 53:30
  gotten reprimanded at work, he started becoming abusive to his
• 53:32
  co-workers. And while he was a really good
• 53:35
  worker, he really brought the morale down.
• 53:40
  Part of his sour mood is that because he hadn't had sex since
• 53:43
  January. Well, that's your own fault,
• 53:45
  sir. And so he was kind of jonesing
• 53:47
  for a fix and then his mother is a genius, send him a letter
• 53:52
  saying that the divorce had been granted because he'd missed all
• 53:55
  the court dates. So so wait, okay, so she filed
• 54:03
  for divorce and he got into the fight and January.
• 54:04
  Yeah, three months later after he know what was going on the
• 54:08
  court system, he was avoiding the court system, so he
• 54:10
  definitely wasn't going to show up to court always in.
• 54:15
  So he went right back on his bullshit, drinking drugs and now
• 54:21
  he picked up a new crime that he really liked rape.
• 54:24
  His first cry. His first victim was Virgil
• 54:26
  Harris. She's in her 60s.
• 54:28
  She lived in one of the homes that Richard liked to hang out
• 54:31
  him when they were being built. When he was a teenager, I can
• 54:34
  you get high and, like, Squat and those houses.
• 54:36
  So, he's familiar with the area and he noticed, she lived alone.
• 54:40
  He very much. Watched waited, and plan this
• 54:42
  attack against her April 3rd. He breaks into her house, ties
• 54:46
  her up blindfolds, her assaults her, Rob's her, and then says,
• 54:51
  thank you and good night on the way out.
• 54:56
  But Richards, rage still wasn't stated though, because she was
• 54:59
  like older, he kind of held her in this Dame esteem as his
• 55:03
  mother and therefore he could not you her, like he viewed the
• 55:08
  young Horrors that he wanted to punish.
• 55:12
  Oh, so you're gonna punish her now well.
• 55:14
  So week later, he's out drinking and a female bartender makes a
• 55:19
  joke about him and he gets real upset.
• 55:22
  And so near this bar was Was like a little farm type area and
• 55:28
  he had been one of the day laborers who had helped build up
• 55:32
  part of this farm. Specifically, a pig pen has
• 55:34
  something that he had done. So he kind of want, you know,
• 55:37
  storms out and they standing near the pig pen and the
• 55:40
  bartender. Mary, Kay Pierce comes out and
• 55:42
  apologizes to him and he punches her in the stomach with such
• 55:47
  force that he ruptured her liver.
• 55:52
  He dragged her deeper into the pig pad and he was going to rape
• 55:56
  her but she fought back and she managed to like, unsettle the
• 56:01
  pigs to the point where they were making noises and he got
• 56:03
  kind of spooked. And he left her to die in the
• 56:07
  pig pen, which happened shortly after look here, these these
• 56:10
  these these women bartenders don't mess with them.
• 56:14
  The fuck you? Well, I mean she was just like,
• 56:17
  yeah, hey, you know, I'm sorry. And yeah, she came out to
• 56:19
  apologize. You're a nice guy and like but
• 56:24
  like he you know, that rage, that issue that he had with a
• 56:28
  rage. It was because at that moment
• 56:30
  she was a stand-in for who he was really mad at.
• 56:34
  He was still mad at surely. Okay, well that's still your
• 56:37
  fault and this is him doing what he wanted to do to Shirley to
• 56:40
  somebody else. So that was his circuit for his
• 56:42
  anger. The police were immediately
• 56:45
  suspicious of him. They were like, well, he knows
• 56:47
  that area, he helped build that place.
• 56:49
  He was at the bar. His boss was like, hey, if you
• 56:53
  come in, you know, I can give you more work and the cops
• 56:56
  picked him up this time. Richard lied.
• 57:00
  He told them. Yeah, I've been there.
• 57:01
  He's like, yeah, I worked on this site, but I don't know
• 57:04
  about a murder. The police knew that the
• 57:06
  timeline he given them for, where he was.
• 57:08
  That night was weird, but all they have is circumstantial
• 57:10
  evidence. They decided they were going to
• 57:12
  stop by. They were like, you know, don't
• 57:14
  go anywhere. So when they decide to stop by
• 57:19
  his hotel on April 18th, he is not there, of course but he
• 57:23
  don't. Listen, he taking all his
• 57:25
  clothes and left. He told the hotel clerk, he was
• 57:27
  getting gone to the to wash his clothes and his hotel room.
• 57:31
  He had left all the stuff that he had stolen from Virgil's
• 57:33
  House, along with other burglaries, but the police found
• 57:37
  no evidence of Mary's murder there.
• 57:40
  They looked for him but he had jumped on a freight train and
• 57:43
  went back to Chicago, you should have been marked his doorstep
• 57:46
  and he was like there were drug dealers and they Want me to sell
• 57:52
  the drugs. He's like, so I had to leave.
• 57:55
  I don't want to sell drugs, Martha.
• 57:58
  And like if Martha had been somebody who knew anything about
• 58:02
  the real world and wasn't as straitlaced as she was.
• 58:05
  She would have known that. That made no sense, not at all.
• 58:08
  So, I'm gonna Force you in this selling drugs.
• 58:11
  Well actually know that that's a thing, but it worked out because
• 58:14
  Jean was working nights, so the to didn't have to see each other
• 58:17
  and so Gene was less angry. Problem was, Richard had
• 58:23
  discovered the things that made him stop being so, angry,
• 58:27
  killing, somebody and raping. Somebody, my God, the rape thing
• 58:31
  worked for him because he struggled with seeing women as
• 58:33
  anything other than pure virgins and if you consented to sex with
• 58:37
  him, it messed up his fantasy. If he took it from them, it was
• 58:43
  his choice, not theirs. And he found a certain peace
• 58:46
  with mixing violence and sex and the power that he got over
• 58:50
  women. Mmmmm.
• 58:52
  So Jean be in the smart one. Here was like, yeah, well, you
• 58:55
  know, you're kind of a piece of crap.
• 58:57
  I doubt that you could handle joining the Navy and so Richard
• 59:01
  was like, I couldn't join the Navy.
• 59:03
  Are you talking about? I like jeans, very manipulative.
• 59:07
  And if Richard took the bait, signed up strangely, though in
• 59:11
  the beginning, being the Navy was really good for him and he
• 59:13
  stay out of trouble. It was almost like having a set
• 59:18
  place to be at every time really worked for him.
• 59:21
  And then one day, he missed a shift.
• 59:24
  It was May 3rd where there were still in 1966?
• 59:27
  Oh my goodness, he missed his shift and his commanding
• 59:30
  officer, some people look for him.
• 59:32
  They found him curled up in a ball in like pain and he had
• 59:36
  like a like hot to the touch fever and they were like,
• 59:39
  there's no doctor on board but like this is obviously some kind
• 59:42
  of infection. So they Helicoptered him to the
• 59:46
  it's Keweenaw, peninsula in Michigan to st.
• 59:49
  Joseph's hospital because his appendix was very big and it did
• 59:55
  not burst a goodness because that's a real long time every
• 59:58
  time but he did have an emergency appendectomy and he
• 1:00:00
  woke up free from Pain and very high on drugs.
• 1:00:04
  Uh-oh. May 20th a week after being
• 1:00:10
  released from the hospital. They put them back on the ship.
• 1:00:14
  He started drinking again. His Superior officers were like
• 1:00:17
  he's really not fit to be a seaman originally they let it
• 1:00:22
  all slide but they were like, listen.
• 1:00:24
  If you can keep it together, you can drink and he was, he was
• 1:00:27
  sloppy. Hmm, I know you're laughing
• 1:00:31
  because of the word season because you are a child Ryan.
• 1:00:34
  That's what you call this C soldiers.
• 1:00:38
  Anyway, haha, that's even anyway.
• 1:00:41
  I'm sorry. Well, he managed to get together
• 1:00:48
  until about June 14. When he confronted an officer
• 1:00:51
  while he was drunk and they were like, nah, you're done.
• 1:00:54
  They set him back to Shore and he was fired without pay for his
• 1:00:57
  time on the boat. Oh yeah, that sucks.
• 1:01:02
  He went back to Chicago but he's like I can't really face Gene
• 1:01:04
  and Martha so he finds like a cheap rooming house.
• 1:01:07
  To live in East Chicago on 99th Street and South Ewing Avenue.
• 1:01:11
  He really only had one friend in the world in his mind and her
• 1:01:15
  name was Judy. Okay.
• 1:01:17
  So it's like aneema. She was a nursing aide who he'd
• 1:01:21
  met when he was recovering in the hospital and she really was
• 1:01:25
  like just a friend to him. There was no it was confusing to
• 1:01:28
  him because he only viewed women as Saints or slots.
• 1:01:31
  So here's this person in the middle who's just treating him
• 1:01:34
  like a regular person and just being regular.
• 1:01:36
  Nice to him. So he called her and she was
• 1:01:41
  just like, listen, come to Michigan.
• 1:01:45
  You know, I'll, we can hang out and he took a training matter
• 1:01:48
  and Haughton, she took him to the Douglas house which was a
• 1:01:51
  local hostile, they had lunch and they did he can talk about
• 1:01:55
  getting fired from the Navy and she and talk about the messy
• 1:01:58
  divorce that she was a part of and they kind of spent the
• 1:02:01
  afternoon laughing and when it was time for her to leave she
• 1:02:05
  gave him an envelope with $80. Which is about six hundred and
• 1:02:08
  seventy dollars today. So it's not a little bit of
• 1:02:11
  money like I said he was really confused because she didn't want
• 1:02:15
  to have sex with him. Therefore she wasn't a whore but
• 1:02:17
  she wasn't fulfilling the role of being like the virgin mother
• 1:02:22
  either. The next day, he went back to
• 1:02:24
  Chicago with more money than he pretty much ever seen.
• 1:02:27
  Any time. He went back to G and Martha and
• 1:02:30
  they very much weren't happy. And like Gene was just like, you
• 1:02:34
  got to work like you can't be here and not work, Buddy.
• 1:02:37
  So Jean was like, you know what, we gon go to the union hall for
• 1:02:44
  Navy men as and I'm you and he's like, you going to keep looking
• 1:02:50
  to see if you can get on another boat problem was nobody wanted
• 1:02:57
  to hire him because they knew he was a drunkard who like to start
• 1:03:00
  fights. He managed to somehow get
• 1:03:02
  invited to work on the SS flying spray which was a cargo ship
• 1:03:06
  that was headed to South Vietnam.
• 1:03:07
  At Nam, but when he arrived there, someone else with more
• 1:03:11
  seniority was given his job. And so he was really upset about
• 1:03:15
  that because he had taken a cab and spent a lot of money, it was
• 1:03:19
  a 30 minute ride to get to the port.
• 1:03:22
  Okay. And so he wasted a lot of that
• 1:03:23
  money that Judy gave him to go there, and he spent pretty much
• 1:03:29
  all weekend complaining, and drinking and yelling.
• 1:03:32
  And then on Monday morning, Martha and Gene drove him into
• 1:03:34
  the city with his suitcase and was like, you got to go Oh,
• 1:03:37
  somewhere, but she can't be here.
• 1:03:39
  Removing, sorry. I don't come back to our house
• 1:03:42
  and pretty much Martha was just like, you are too old to keep
• 1:03:44
  relying on me. And like, trying to help you is
• 1:03:47
  ruining my marriage. The next day he went back to n.
• 1:03:51
  Mu hiring Hall. He got an assignment for the SS
• 1:03:54
  Sinclair on great, Great Lakes, which was an oil tanker when he
• 1:03:58
  arrives the Sinclair. Same thing happened.
• 1:04:00
  He'd even have enough money to rent a room here so he slept on
• 1:04:03
  a construction site. Wednesday July 13th, he tries
• 1:04:09
  again at the hiring Hall. He's really angry.
• 1:04:13
  He's getting the runaround Martha and Gene had come to like
• 1:04:16
  give him a ride and they talked with him at about 9:00 a.m. they
• 1:04:21
  were parked on East 100 Street which was near the loo
• 1:04:24
  elementary elementary school and across from a nursing
• 1:04:27
  townhouses. After about an hour and a half
• 1:04:29
  of waiting for work, he got tired and left.
• 1:04:32
  He took his last $25 and walked to the shipyard and which was
• 1:04:35
  another rooming house that had a Tavern.
• 1:04:37
  There, he spent the rest of the day drinking, and two different
• 1:04:40
  taverns, he met a lady, who was her name is Ella, Mae Hooper,
• 1:04:45
  she's 53 and convince her to come back with him to his hotel
• 1:04:48
  room where he raped her at knifepoint.
• 1:04:52
  And stole her 22 caliber. Rome pistol.
• 1:04:55
  Oh, which had a gun. She'd have a gun.
• 1:05:00
  Okay. Okay.
• 1:05:03
  He brought a gun to a Shear. Only got one life like she
• 1:05:07
  brought a gun to what she thought was a casual sexual
• 1:05:09
  encounter. Yes, but unfortunately and it
• 1:05:12
  was not Then he took himself out to dinner at case, pilothouse
• 1:05:18
  returned to the shipyard Tavern, at about 10:20, p.m. went
• 1:05:22
  upstairs, and came back down. Dressed in all black, carrying a
• 1:05:25
  switchblade and L is handgun. He hadn't made that much money.
• 1:05:34
  From stealing from Ella. But his plan was he had seen the
• 1:05:41
  nurses coming and going this up to this week while he was at the
• 1:05:46
  union hall and his plan was that he was going to show up there
• 1:05:50
  and he was going to rob one of the houses specifically the
• 1:05:54
  house on 23:19 East 100 Street at about 11:00 p.m.
• 1:06:00
  July 30th 1966. He walked to the door and he
• 1:06:03
  banged on it four times a Woman by the name.
• 1:06:06
  I'm of corazon, I'm Mauro, open the door.
• 1:06:09
  And he pretty much by the time, she opened the door, he had his
• 1:06:11
  gun out, and he was just like, hey, where are your companions?
• 1:06:15
  He then woke up another. Five residents of the house, and
• 1:06:19
  he was just like, I'm not going to hurt you.
• 1:06:21
  I see enough money to get to New Orleans.
• 1:06:25
  She will the women need a Josh mall and Patricia matusik?
• 1:06:29
  Offered to go get their purses right away and he was like you
• 1:06:32
  can do it one by one. The other people who were there
• 1:06:34
  were Pamela welcoming and Melita gargola And Valentina pacion.
• 1:06:39
  They had been yanked out of bed and like physically like picked
• 1:06:42
  up by him, so they were freaked out.
• 1:06:44
  Yeah, the other two women were like, we'll go get our purses
• 1:06:47
  because he hadn't touched them, but like the ones who had been
• 1:06:51
  like physical. Like, one of the girls have been
• 1:06:52
  physically yanked out of her, like, bunk bed.
• 1:06:56
  He was like, listen, I'll let you go one of the roommates
• 1:06:59
  Gloria Davy bust through the door drunk.
• 1:07:02
  She thinks that she's gonna get in trouble from her roommates.
• 1:07:05
  And she walks into Robert are robbery and he grabs her.
• 1:07:11
  Throws her on a ground ties. All of them up and he's like,
• 1:07:15
  listen, this is not, I'm not going to do anything.
• 1:07:17
  Like I just don't want you to run and call the cops as soon as
• 1:07:21
  I leave lies. Well, what happened here was
• 1:07:25
  that something kinda took over him?
• 1:07:28
  He standing over this group of beautiful women.
• 1:07:30
  These are women who have never given him the time of day and
• 1:07:33
  he's just like, I have complete power over them.
• 1:07:37
  So he untied Pamela enough that she could like walk and he was
• 1:07:42
  just like, listen, I just want to talk to you alone and he
• 1:07:44
  pulled her into like another room.
• 1:07:46
  So then Suzanne Farris and Marianne Jordan arrived home and
• 1:07:49
  they kind of like walked upstairs and then they walked by
• 1:07:54
  And they see Richard standing over there roommate with a knife
• 1:07:58
  and the both of them try and run away.
• 1:08:00
  He closes that door and chases the other two of those women
• 1:08:03
  down And no point yet, had he hit anybody or hurt anybody?
• 1:08:09
  But Marianne was trying to fight and he was like, oh cool.
• 1:08:13
  Now I can hurt you. What?
• 1:08:16
  That was? That was it.
• 1:08:17
  He stabbed her death and while he was still holding Suzanne
• 1:08:22
  down and then he chokes Suzanne left them in a room.
• 1:08:28
  Went back to the bedroom where he left, Pamela tied up and she
• 1:08:32
  was terrified and she didn't fight back at all.
• 1:08:35
  And he Just was kind of disgusted by the fact that she
• 1:08:38
  didn't fight back and he just very quickly stopped her.
• 1:08:42
  Well, yeah, you got all the power.
• 1:08:43
  I can't do anything against you right now.
• 1:08:45
  I've got me tied up. What do you he was?
• 1:08:47
  He was getting off on this role of them fighting.
• 1:08:49
  I'm sorry, sir, but you're not getting what you want.
• 1:08:52
  Well, this went on for the rest of the night, he would kill one.
• 1:08:56
  He would go to the bathroom. Clean everything up.
• 1:09:00
  Then he would go back into the bedroom where he had them all.
• 1:09:02
  Tied up, grab another one. And he knew that there were
• 1:09:08
  eight women who lived there, but what he wasn't aware of was that
• 1:09:11
  he had nine women in the room. Because horrid corazón core.
• 1:09:16
  I didn't live there, she was just visiting, that's right.
• 1:09:19
  And so while he was gone at one point Cora begins slowly sliding
• 1:09:24
  under the bed. And Hiding.
• 1:09:28
  Hmm. And some of the other girls
• 1:09:29
  tried to do that too. But they didn't quite get all
• 1:09:31
  the way under the bed and he ended up pulling cooking them.
• 1:09:34
  Yeah finally though he was just like my last one and he was he
• 1:09:41
  felt like he was alone in the house.
• 1:09:43
  So he picked up Gloria and he was going to his people.
• 1:09:47
  He raped her before he killed her and this is like from korres
• 1:09:54
  testimony which was that she watched it happen and she she
• 1:09:59
  saw Gloria go to another place. She pretty much at that point
• 1:10:03
  had completely disassociated from the night.
• 1:10:07
  And Cora was afraid that if she even breathed, he would know
• 1:10:10
  where she was under the beds and dragged her out to Richard was
• 1:10:16
  exhausted at this point, it had been hours of it's not exactly
• 1:10:20
  easy to stab. Someone to death, it is
• 1:10:22
  physically demanding, true true. He dragged her out of the room
• 1:10:25
  by her feet into the hallway. She was still alive at this
• 1:10:28
  point and then he was like ah here's a random piece of a
• 1:10:31
  sheet. And he grabbed, it wrapped
• 1:10:34
  around her neck and he choked her so hard that it like cut
• 1:10:39
  into her neck. For Richard, this was the best
• 1:10:42
  night of his life and he's like, whoo.
• 1:10:44
  I could I'd all this control over women.
• 1:10:47
  He washed himself up kind of ants that they're there.
• 1:10:49
  A bodies. Hey bedrooms.
• 1:10:51
  I got this or you know eight beds.
• 1:10:53
  Yeah, he didn't remember that Cora had been the one to even
• 1:10:57
  let him it. Oh goodness.
• 1:10:59
  Okay, she waited and climbed out of a window in the room after he
• 1:11:05
  dragged her out of the house. She was sitting on like a ledge
• 1:11:10
  and Near like the first floor, roof sobbing.
• 1:11:15
  And one of the girls across the street woke up and saw her that
• 1:11:17
  girl was Judy diketon. And Judy was just like a lot of
• 1:11:21
  those girls over there are pretty dramatic, but Cora is not
• 1:11:24
  dramatic and she's like, she's not sitting on her roof.
• 1:11:27
  Crying over a breakup. So Judy wrapped herself and like
• 1:11:32
  her robe and like ran across the street and as she got closer she
• 1:11:35
  could hear Cora just saying over and over.
• 1:11:38
  She's like they're all dead. Oh my God.
• 1:11:41
  Are all dead Judy made it to the first flight of steps and she
• 1:11:44
  saw Gloria on the couch, naked and choke so hard.
• 1:11:48
  That her head looked partially, severed, and she ran back across
• 1:11:52
  the street. And she talked to her house
• 1:11:53
  mother and mrs. Bison.
• 1:11:56
  That whole house of women walked with mrs.
• 1:11:59
  Mason because mrs. Bison was, like, I need to see
• 1:12:01
  this for myself. Like she went inside the house
• 1:12:04
  alone and then came right back outside threw up on the front
• 1:12:09
  lawn. And called the hospital where
• 1:12:12
  they all worked and was just like all of my girls have been
• 1:12:14
  killed. And the receptionist was like,
• 1:12:17
  excuse me. And she said, you seemed to send
• 1:12:20
  somebody while mrs. Bison is throwing up on the
• 1:12:25
  lawn, the girls like wave down. The police Corazon is Falling
• 1:12:32
  apart on the front lawn. Actually she had jumped down to
• 1:12:35
  try and stop mrs. Bison from going in.
• 1:12:38
  She's like, no, no, no, it's really bad in there and buy some
• 1:12:41
  is like nah I got this. No, you don't want traumatize.
• 1:12:44
  Obviously, you did not get it. First officer who arrived, his
• 1:12:47
  name is Daniel Kelly. And he like, doesn't know what
• 1:12:53
  to do here. Everybody is like, screaming and
• 1:12:56
  crying. He saw the first murder. and he
• 1:13:05
  was like, okay, I gotta I gotta walk around the rest of the
• 1:13:10
  house and after he confirmed that nobody else was there like
• 1:13:15
  the killer was gone. He radioed for assistance over
• 1:13:19
  the radio? All the cops heard.
• 1:13:21
  They're all dead. Oh God, give me the sergeant and
• 1:13:25
  then he said I dated her sister. I've never seen anything like
• 1:13:28
  this. Wow.
• 1:13:29
  So he knew one of the victims. A local reporter overheard.
• 1:13:35
  This address on a radio and rushed over, of course, Daniel
• 1:13:39
  Kelly is like one almost shot him because he's like, why are
• 1:13:43
  you rushing at me, bro? And Joe Cummings is the reporter
• 1:13:48
  and he walks up the steps, like he can tell just looking at the
• 1:13:53
  police officer like some bad happened here and like Dale's,
• 1:13:57
  just like you really don't want to go in there and he's like,
• 1:14:00
  no, no, it's just a murder. I've seen a lot of murders and
• 1:14:03
  Like he walked on the first floor and he was like, oh yeah,
• 1:14:05
  this is bad. You know, but like this cat
• 1:14:07
  like, okay, something's can't get any worse.
• 1:14:09
  Well, then he walked around the rest of the house and then he
• 1:14:12
  came out and also vomited on the front lawn.
• 1:14:14
  Oh, he got worse in this Earth. Yeah, fuck out of here.
• 1:14:18
  In fact, when the other officers came up, they saw the reporter
• 1:14:21
  like freaking like, you know, that and they were like, I look
• 1:14:24
  at this guy until they saw what happened?
• 1:14:27
  Everybody's havin, a few fast. Everybody was like this game be
• 1:14:31
  that bad. What are you talking about?
• 1:14:33
  Out. And then they saw it happen.
• 1:14:35
  A doctor actually came from the hospital where they all worked,
• 1:14:38
  and gave Cora a Saturday of. Because she was having a
• 1:14:41
  full-blown breakdown. Like I said, she was just there,
• 1:14:44
  visiting Frank, flannagan the commander of Chicago's homicide
• 1:14:48
  unit came and was just like, Joe, you can't say anything.
• 1:14:54
  He's like, I don't want anybody to know about how they were
• 1:14:57
  killed or the rapes. He's like this is going to bring
• 1:15:00
  out a lot of weirdos in Chicago. He's like an people are going to
• 1:15:02
  try and take credit. It's going to mess up our
• 1:15:03
  investigation. Joe crede core was taken to the
• 1:15:07
  hospital for observation and like it was really sucky because
• 1:15:10
  the cops didn't want to like re-traumatize her but they also
• 1:15:13
  need to know like bare minimum what the guy looked like.
• 1:15:16
  Yeah. So she did give like a
• 1:15:18
  description barely before she was fully sedated.
• 1:15:21
  And the cops took that and went looking for him, he had bitten
• 1:15:24
  by a gas station and had dropped off like his stuff randomly and
• 1:15:29
  the gas station attendant was like oh yeah I remember him.
• 1:15:31
  He was you know hate like a weird stuff.
• 1:15:33
  Thunder. All the attendant was like, oh,
• 1:15:36
  he was complaining about being at the hiring Hall and how they
• 1:15:40
  kept giving him the runaround. Oh, you don't say so, the cops
• 1:15:44
  were like, oh perfect if he's in the Navy.
• 1:15:47
  They we got everything. We have this guy.
• 1:15:49
  Yes. So the Navy was just like a
• 1:15:52
  first like the main that guy didn't know who he was, but they
• 1:15:56
  were just like, oh no, we got this fingerprints.
• 1:15:58
  Photograph, everything matches. Exactly what Cora said, they Him
• 1:16:03
  within the first two hours of finding out about the internet.
• 1:16:06
  Nice, very nice. Their next deal was that we have
• 1:16:09
  to find him before he kills anybody else because we've never
• 1:16:11
  seen anything like this. We've not had a crime where
• 1:16:14
  people murdered an entire house of people before, we don't know
• 1:16:18
  what the next step is here. Richard headed back to the end,
• 1:16:23
  took a shower and went to bed after murdering all those
• 1:16:25
  people. He went drinking with his
• 1:16:27
  buddies that morning unaware that Chicago was looking for
• 1:16:29
  him. He's just having a great old
• 1:16:30
  time. Yeah.
• 1:16:31
  He met some of his old classmates.
• 1:16:33
  He was like, Hey, Wanna Party at some point during the day, they
• 1:16:37
  did hear that there had been a Survivor to this attack in East
• 1:16:40
  Chicago. Richard got back to the n and he
• 1:16:46
  had a call from Gene, and Gene was just like, hey, there's a
• 1:16:50
  job down for you. The union, I love Jean, I love
• 1:16:55
  you. Richard was like, what?
• 1:16:58
  Good luck. I can get out of Chicago while
• 1:17:00
  we're looking for me, but then, as he sat down, like, thing
• 1:17:03
  about this information, he was just like, wait a second.
• 1:17:05
  The union doesn't call you. You have to go down there and
• 1:17:08
  get the job. So Jamie was like, he's like I
• 1:17:12
  don't think my brother-in-law's been down there doing me any
• 1:17:14
  favors, so he called the union, all himself and the staff, who
• 1:17:18
  was normally pretty rude to him were like, oh yeah, we do.
• 1:17:21
  I have a job for you. Mr. Speck.
• 1:17:23
  Come on down, I love it. I love it so much.
• 1:17:28
  The problem was they told him that there was a job on the the
• 1:17:32
  Sinclair Great Lakes and it was like I guess the guy forgot that
• 1:17:35
  was the same job they'd offered him three days ago.
• 1:17:37
  Hmm. Because he was like, okay so he
• 1:17:40
  definitely remembered that one because he spent all his money
• 1:17:42
  on a cab. So he knew they were in on it
• 1:17:44
  and he knew he needed to leave that damn it.
• 1:17:48
  So he ended up running away. He went to the other side of
• 1:17:50
  town. He hired a prostitute who saw
• 1:17:53
  his gun and told the hotel workers.
• 1:17:56
  He had a gun and the hotel called the cops.
• 1:17:59
  And I looked at his IDs and his paperwork, but since things went
• 1:18:03
  so slow back then every Precinct didn't have his picture yet,
• 1:18:06
  right? Right.
• 1:18:07
  And so the cops let him go Chicago.
• 1:18:10
  P.d., however, were chasing down his path that he had been
• 1:18:13
  through. They did find the shipyard in
• 1:18:16
  and confirmed his i.d. They found his schoolmates.
• 1:18:18
  They talk to them, Richard then met up with a couple, like he
• 1:18:22
  like, ended up like hanging out with a bunch of hobos.
• 1:18:24
  And he was like, hey are you guys leaving like what's a good
• 1:18:27
  train? Hop on again in town.
• 1:18:29
  The hobos were like this guy's weird is terrible, right?
• 1:18:37
  We'll listen. I'm not gonna make an assessment
• 1:18:39
  on hobos. Are not bad people.
• 1:18:41
  Yeah, me either. No, no, definitely not, but you
• 1:18:44
  just like random as people enter like you're fucking weird.
• 1:18:48
  Don't know if I could you do this.
• 1:18:51
  Well, so he went to a liquor store on his way, back to the
• 1:18:54
  little hostile. He was staying at, and that is
• 1:18:56
  what he saw his Pace on every single newspaper.
• 1:18:59
  Mmm, one of the hobos called the cops and the cops were like, who
• 1:19:03
  is this drunk man? Talking to me, Richard Chuck,
• 1:19:08
  this little bottle of wine smash the bottle on the cot that he
• 1:19:11
  was sleeping on, and then cut his wrist, all the way up to his
• 1:19:14
  elbow and waited for death. The cops didn't company
• 1:19:18
  ambulance did and in the ER, as they were saving his life.
• 1:19:21
  One of the doctors was like, this is the guy they're looking
• 1:19:24
  for. You need to call the police.
• 1:19:27
  They recognize the Born To Raise Hell Tattoo that Cora had
• 1:19:30
  mentioned seeing things went quickly.
• 1:19:34
  At this point, they had 133 pages of testimony from core
• 1:19:38
  about that night clothing, with blood on it fingerprints.
• 1:19:43
  Somehow Richard Speck got the best public defender who ever
• 1:19:48
  existed in the history of Public Defenders.
• 1:19:52
  This is terrible. This guy got so much of the
• 1:19:58
  evidence excluded. He was like little that pistol,
• 1:20:01
  you got illegal, search and seizure because the prostitute
• 1:20:04
  told you about it, and you didn't have a right to go into
• 1:20:06
  his hotel room. Also, she's a prostitute and
• 1:20:09
  reliable witness that Bloody t-shirt, that could have been a
• 1:20:12
  planted. Every witness you had every
• 1:20:14
  witness they had. After the crime happened, was a
• 1:20:17
  drunkard. And therefore he argued that
• 1:20:19
  they were unreliable, their testimony was unreliable
• 1:20:21
  prostitutes. Are not unreliable Witnesses.
• 1:20:24
  Listen, he Even tried to push to get eight different trials and
• 1:20:30
  he said, there's no way I can get he can get a fair trial in
• 1:20:32
  Chicago because you put his face on every newspaper.
• 1:20:35
  So now everybody who lives in here is part of the jury pool
• 1:20:38
  and they're going to be tainted, everyone's real fucking Rex
• 1:20:41
  thing. Well, here's the thing judge
• 1:20:43
  passion did agree to most of the stuff except the motion to
• 1:20:47
  separate the trials. Okay, cool.
• 1:20:49
  Now he was like he killed them all in the same night.
• 1:20:51
  It's all the same trial because what, what?
• 1:20:55
  His Lawyer Jerry was going to do was kind of create like a
• 1:21:01
  mistrial situation. He tried to find an expert like
• 1:21:09
  Jerry. So I get e, his name was Gerald,
• 1:21:12
  Getty call him Jerry because that's much just made me get
• 1:21:15
  her. Yeah.
• 1:21:15
  But Gerald get he tried to find an expert.
• 1:21:18
  Who would say that? Richard was clinically insane.
• 1:21:21
  He was having trouble. He did get a brain scan and saw
• 1:21:24
  his brain injury was pretty severe and affected the part of
• 1:21:28
  his brain related to emotional control and it had continued to
• 1:21:33
  not form properly after the injury.
• 1:21:36
  Jury. Right?
• 1:21:38
  But that wasn't enough for what he was trying to do.
• 1:21:41
  There was a psychiatrist. He spent a lot of time with him
• 1:21:43
  and his name was dr. Zipporah in and the porn
• 1:21:46
  diagnosed him with anxiety depression OCD.
• 1:21:48
  The problem is, those are all things that come from you coming
• 1:21:51
  down off of drugs, all things that happen to people those
• 1:21:56
  supporting was the first one is zero in, on Richards, Madonna
• 1:21:58
  whore complex though and how this dominated the way he
• 1:22:01
  interacted with women and was a big major thing.
• 1:22:06
  It was, it took six weeks. Even outside of Chicago, they
• 1:22:11
  filtered through 600 jurors to find a jury that made both
• 1:22:16
  sides. Happy interestingly enough, even
• 1:22:18
  those the porins supported Richard the lawyer discovered
• 1:22:22
  that support him was going to write a book about him.
• 1:22:24
  A book that I actually read for this podcast and therefore the
• 1:22:28
  both the defense and the prosecution were like we don't
• 1:22:31
  trust this Doctor. They're like what?
• 1:22:35
  If he does something to make the trial go, whatever way he wants
• 1:22:38
  for his book, right? So none of them wanted him to
• 1:22:41
  testify and so he did trial started, April, 3rd, 1967,
• 1:22:46
  drove, Getty ripped. The prosecution to shreds from
• 1:22:50
  the jump, he argued that the fingerprints were compromised
• 1:22:53
  because officer Kelly had allowed Joe Cummings to just
• 1:22:57
  Waltz through the house, which is true.
• 1:23:00
  He should have been allowed to walk through an active crime
• 1:23:01
  scene. Porter, come on.
• 1:23:03
  The prosecution's case was falling apart and then our girl
• 1:23:07
  Cora showed up. I'm going to say once you look
• 1:23:09
  like a boss and I'm going to give you this moment to show you
• 1:23:11
  a picture of her because she looked like a g.
• 1:23:18
  Like she showed up with a whole Entourage, she had quietly like
• 1:23:21
  arrived in the city. And everybody who was going to
• 1:23:25
  testify are part of that trial was all sequestered at this
• 1:23:27
  Ramada, Inn They're all one spot.
• 1:23:32
  Yep. Let me see if I can find some
• 1:23:35
  good pictures of her. So, I love this one picture.
• 1:23:39
  She showed up with Lisa glasses on and I was like, she looks
• 1:23:42
  like she's ready to fuck shit up.
• 1:23:47
  And love to see it. You little fishies their
• 1:23:49
  bodyguards like walking into the trial.
• 1:23:51
  Yeah. And she's a tiny little Filipino
• 1:23:54
  lady. She does.
• 1:23:57
  She looks like she is ready to tell some serious business who
• 1:24:01
  is. She is the mob boss and they are
• 1:24:03
  her bodyguards. I love it.
• 1:24:04
  Okay. And the thing was she was poised
• 1:24:08
  confident and control the entire time.
• 1:24:10
  She was talking, she got on the stand and explained everything
• 1:24:13
  in detail the newspaper articles about.
• 1:24:17
  By this were, like, the room was silent the entire time and all
• 1:24:21
  you could hear were the cry, like, the parents of the victims
• 1:24:25
  crying. Because this was the first time
• 1:24:27
  that they had heard everything in this kind of detail, like
• 1:24:31
  they might have known like, oh, your daughter was stabbed, or
• 1:24:34
  your daughter was choked, but like Korra gave some very
• 1:24:38
  intense testimony and then the best part I said she's a G8 like
• 1:24:44
  what? A cool lady.
• 1:24:45
  She ended her testimony and they were Like well, do you see the
• 1:24:48
  man who did this in this room? She left the witness box walked
• 1:24:52
  over to his table, pointed him in the face.
• 1:24:54
  And said, this is the man who murdered my friends.
• 1:24:59
  Mic drop, no fear love it on April, 15th.
• 1:25:05
  After 49 minutes of deliberation, the jury came back
• 1:25:08
  with a guilty verdict for all eat murders.
• 1:25:11
  He was sentenced to death. But his lawyer, did some lawyer
• 1:25:15
  ring and managed to get a stay of execution while the Supreme
• 1:25:19
  Court of Illinois. Look at the case, On November
• 1:25:22
  22nd 1968, the Supreme Court, the lower court ratified that
• 1:25:27
  sentence 1971. However, he was able to find
• 1:25:31
  evidence that the prosecution had excluded over 200 jurors,
• 1:25:38
  because they were anti-capital punishment.
• 1:25:41
  And so, they looked at his trial again, and he was given a new
• 1:25:44
  sentence on November 21st, 1972. He was resentenced to 400 years
• 1:25:49
  in prison. So death right life with Richard
• 1:25:55
  would request parole hearings every time he was eligible.
• 1:25:58
  1976, 77-81, 84 87, 1990, pretty much until the parole board
• 1:26:05
  realized that he was bored and that's the only reason why he
• 1:26:08
  was doing it. We do get a hobby, he's gonna be
• 1:26:11
  in prison for a long time and he had no options and prison.
• 1:26:15
  He pretty much ignored the rules.
• 1:26:16
  There's a horrible story. They call him the Birdman, okay,
• 1:26:20
  because there, Bird that like flew into his cell and like had
• 1:26:22
  a broken wing and he kind of kept it as a patent nurse it
• 1:26:25
  back to health. And so at some point the warden
• 1:26:29
  came down and was like, you can't have a pet in prison, bro,
• 1:26:31
  you're in prison. And so he took the bird and he
• 1:26:34
  threw it into a fan, o killing it and spreading blood all over
• 1:26:39
  his cell. He was like, well, if nobody can
• 1:26:41
  have a pet, like, if I could have a pet, nobody can have it.
• 1:26:43
  He's like, fuck this bird, wow. Yeah, again very unhinged.
• 1:26:49
  And everybody knew it. And that was very dramatic and
• 1:26:52
  Uncle for sure. I was going to ask you if this
• 1:26:54
  was. I don't forget who the Birdman
• 1:26:57
  of Alcatraz is. No, that's where they got there
• 1:26:58
  were like oh you're just like the bird man.
• 1:27:00
  Yeah, that's where they got the name from like people knew about
• 1:27:03
  that. But no, no, the warden was like,
• 1:27:06
  you can't have birds and he was like, well, let me kill this
• 1:27:08
  bird in front of you. He got drugs.
• 1:27:13
  He got moonshine. Smuggled in when the guards
• 1:27:15
  challenged him and were like stop.
• 1:27:18
  He was just like what you gonna do another hundred years I mean
• 1:27:24
  actually sorry add another thousand years is the direct
• 1:27:27
  quote. Oh my God, he only ever did one
• 1:27:30
  interview in prison, it was for the Chicago Tribune and he
• 1:27:34
  admitted that he did Kill the woman, he felt nothing about it
• 1:27:38
  and he barely remember the night.
• 1:27:41
  He died the day before his 50th birthday 1991.
• 1:27:45
  A lifetime of drug abuse had destroyed his heart, and he just
• 1:27:48
  had a massive heart attack scientist took his brain and
• 1:27:51
  they were like, oh, we go. And look at them.
• 1:27:54
  They discovered that they were major abnormalities in his
• 1:27:56
  hippocampus, which controls your memory, and the amygdala, which
• 1:27:59
  controls your strong emotions, the hippocampus and amygdala
• 1:28:03
  were fused together, which is not what's supposed to happen.
• 1:28:08
  So, it turns out that like, He probably didn't remember a lot.
• 1:28:13
  Hmm interesting. If the part of his brain that is
• 1:28:17
  responsible for memory is completely malformed.
• 1:28:19
  Yeah. They took a bunch of tissue
• 1:28:22
  slides and they mailed them to Boston and someone stole them
• 1:28:26
  and they have no idea where they are.
• 1:28:27
  Oh, they assumed it was for someone's probable, personal and
• 1:28:31
  creepy collection was once a someone is creepy Museum.
• 1:28:34
  The rest of his body was not claimed by his family.
• 1:28:37
  They finally managed to contact Coral.
• 1:28:40
  You know Carolyn and Carolyn was like fine we don't want to I
• 1:28:47
  don't want to bury him because he'll have like some creepy
• 1:28:50
  Monument to his name. So she was like let's just
• 1:28:54
  cremate him. Throw his ashes, in the wind
• 1:28:56
  will be fine. He kind of figured out the
• 1:28:59
  spotlight. People forgot about what
• 1:29:00
  happened and then in 1986 a video gets set to Chicago
• 1:29:07
  newspaper. And it Richard Speck is there
• 1:29:11
  one. He has boobs, which they think
• 1:29:14
  he got from getting hormones smuggled in.
• 1:29:17
  He is performing sex acts on other prisoners.
• 1:29:22
  Snorting cocaine having sex on camera bragging you know, as I
• 1:29:27
  said in the beginning, if they knew, how much fun I was having,
• 1:29:29
  they turn me loose, Illinois. Lawmakers, are embarrassed
• 1:29:33
  angry. This was released right after a
• 1:29:36
  scandal. That happened in Illinois with
• 1:29:38
  guards sexually, assaulting women prisoners and so they're
• 1:29:42
  just looking at like, the people of Illinois are like, what are
• 1:29:46
  you all doing? Like, not your job.
• 1:29:50
  And the one person that they had wanted to kill here.
• 1:29:53
  He is immortalized mocking. Them for letting him live.
• 1:30:00
  Okay, did he have boobs when he died?
• 1:30:03
  He might have. Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  Okay, one, quote lives kind of, on from that Soul interview that
• 1:30:10
  he did. When he first went to prison,
• 1:30:12
  they asked why he did it, you know?
• 1:30:14
  And he very nonchalantly said, it just wasn't there night.
• 1:30:19
  Fucking strangers, people's fucking God, but I do want to
• 1:30:24
  end on something. Nice, talking about our lovely
• 1:30:27
  Survivor Corazon Amora Atienza, she moved on with her life.
• 1:30:33
  Originally, she moved back to the Philippines for a little
• 1:30:37
  bit. She got married in 1969.
• 1:30:40
  She moved back to the US settled in Washington DC where she
• 1:30:44
  worked at Georgetown University Hospital as a critical care
• 1:30:46
  nurse and then the Veterans Medical Her until she retired at
• 1:30:50
  68 years old, she became lifelong friends with the police
• 1:30:55
  and the bodyguards, and the prosecutor prosecutors who
• 1:30:58
  watched over her leading up to the trial and afterward.
• 1:31:01
  People very much tried to protect her from the
• 1:31:03
  obsessiveness of the fandoms and the creepiness there.
• 1:31:08
  Unfortunately, it wasn't the best for all the other families.
• 1:31:11
  Some of the families of the other victims were harassed, not
• 1:31:14
  in the States, but in the Philippines, in Manila.
• 1:31:17
  No, and I was really upset. To a lot of people Corazon is 78
• 1:31:23
  years old. She spends her days.
• 1:31:26
  These right now, take care of her grandchildren.
• 1:31:29
  She has a daughter named Abigail who is a nurse as well.
• 1:31:33
  And her son, is an accountant, he's my Ace, her last interview
• 1:31:38
  response was in 2016. The 50-year anniversary of the
• 1:31:43
  crime? She didn't do any direct.
• 1:31:45
  She doesn't do any direct talking to the Press.
• 1:31:50
  The former assistant attorney William Martin spoke to the
• 1:31:54
  Press on her behalf and said, she's happy, the case still
• 1:31:58
  changed everybody at touched. They still exchange emails.
• 1:32:03
  He says that Korra still have nightmares about her attack and
• 1:32:06
  she does Harbor some survivor's guilt still but she looks at it
• 1:32:09
  as if someone somewhere maybe God was looking out for her that
• 1:32:13
  night. And yeah, love to see it.
• 1:32:16
  Okay, that's a good. I like the ending.
• 1:32:19
  That's nice. Yeah, decided we would add it
• 1:32:21
  on, you know, because like I said, I we talk a lot about a
• 1:32:24
  lot of people who die and not that often, about people who
• 1:32:27
  survived like pretty horrible things.
• 1:32:29
  So I did run a whole series. I'm going to add more to it of
• 1:32:32
  of women who survived, I do remember watching that video.
• 1:32:35
  Now, we're those glasses on looking like a genius, The first
• 1:32:40
  letter name I was like oh I remember that was it means that
• 1:32:43
  the prosecutors. They coached her very well
• 1:32:45
  because you can't show any weakness.
• 1:32:46
  You can't cry on the stand. They use that against you.
• 1:32:49
  Right? And Jimmy were like cold as ice
• 1:32:52
  Cora. She was almost even even in the
• 1:32:55
  interview that I saw the Chicago Tribune with Martin with a
• 1:32:58
  William Martin. He talked about that moment
• 1:33:01
  where she got off the witness box and got in his face and I
• 1:33:05
  was like he was like, that was that was Brave.
• 1:33:07
  He was like, that was awesome. Something happened in, Ted
• 1:33:16
  Bundy's case. Ted Bundy was like, are you
• 1:33:18
  sure? It's me.
• 1:33:19
  And she was like, I'm absolutely sure it was you.
• 1:33:24
  Yeah, he's like, how do you know it was me.
• 1:33:27
  Who attempted to murder you. I saw your noxious, fucking
• 1:33:31
  fascia dipshit. But anyway, what do you have for
• 1:33:38
  us? I'm sorry.
• 1:33:38
  This one went a little long today.
• 1:33:40
  But no, it was a great story. I love it.
• 1:33:42
  I'm okay with it being. Well, well today let me give you
• 1:33:51
  a little story time, first? Okay, it's a little personal
• 1:33:54
  story time. Actually, is something that
• 1:33:55
  happened to me. Now, I like to think of myself
• 1:34:00
  as like sort of sensitive, okay? Like a sensitive not you know
• 1:34:05
  what I mean? Like someone who's, this is
• 1:34:07
  actually the have you had experiences.
• 1:34:10
  I've had why have we never discussed this?
• 1:34:12
  I've had experiences, I've had a couple of experiences, it was
• 1:34:15
  some point. We got to do a, we're gonna
• 1:34:17
  record this conversation and make it like a bonus for the
• 1:34:20
  patreon. Yeah, and like it kind of runs
• 1:34:26
  in the family too. Okay.
• 1:34:27
  Yeah. Like with my mom, she can meet
• 1:34:31
  her. We had this thing.
• 1:34:32
  Like we have prophetic Rings. Oh, I don't like that.
• 1:34:35
  Yeah, it's kind of shitty, my sister.
• 1:34:37
  And I have had. We've had shared dreams multiple
• 1:34:39
  time, huh. Nice.
• 1:34:40
  Yeah, it's my family that runs down the indigenous side the
• 1:34:44
  indigenous women. I think that's yeah this is for
• 1:34:47
  us like she can tell when someone's gonna lie she has
• 1:34:50
  dreams of people being pregnant and like someone who's trying to
• 1:34:52
  hide it and she's like as well. I just wanted to say yes I want
• 1:34:56
  your mom to never have a dream about me.
• 1:35:01
  I need her to keep that energy away from me, but that evil on
• 1:35:04
  me? Ricky Bobby.
• 1:35:06
  It didn't happen. If she calls you one night and
• 1:35:08
  says No, I dream about your podcast co-host.
• 1:35:13
  Just be like Schneider and Mom know you did.
• 1:35:16
  Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
• 1:35:18
  Keep that evil to yourself. Um, well like that.
• 1:35:22
  But I've had at least a couple. The last one I had was with a
• 1:35:30
  friend of mine. I use quotations around friend
• 1:35:33
  and he's somebody you don't like, no.
• 1:35:35
  It's someone that How do you say this Friends with Benefits?
• 1:35:43
  Oh okay. So this was like years ago.
• 1:35:50
  We work together so, well, that's a terrible Choice.
• 1:35:54
  Yeah yeah. Whatever you work with is such
• 1:35:57
  an awful Choice sir. Anyway so one night I had this
• 1:36:04
  dream about her with my other friend that I worked with oh no
• 1:36:10
  and and she's like the ancestors, let you know.
• 1:36:15
  Yeah. And then and then getting done
• 1:36:16
  dirty but still dang. It's funny because I wake up the
• 1:36:21
  next morning. I'm like, damn, that was a
• 1:36:22
  shitty as dreamily. I feel real bad.
• 1:36:25
  I felt bad like really inside, like just terrible.
• 1:36:30
  We're rest of the day and she's like, I hadn't seen a message me
• 1:36:33
  like later. And I said, I have something to
• 1:36:35
  tell you, I'm like, you slept with this such and such and
• 1:36:37
  she's like, how do you know I'm like, because I had a fucking
• 1:36:40
  dream about it. I, I know he's things.
• 1:36:44
  And then she's like, I don't believe you'd only whatever.
• 1:36:46
  Anyway, you gotta believe me, girl, I know I know.
• 1:36:48
  No, I renew. But um, I-i've had I'd see I'd
• 1:36:56
  say like a couple experiences when I was a child as well.
• 1:36:58
  The one I'm going to talk about is I'm going to say, it's kind
• 1:37:03
  of like a sleep paralysis type of thing.
• 1:37:06
  So um, you know, we were in our attic.
• 1:37:12
  Me and my brother shared room. Oh you're adequate.
• 1:37:15
  Your room has an attic. Yeah, but is awesome attic.
• 1:37:17
  Okay, it was very spacious. It's a big help, that's good
• 1:37:22
  because I think Those little tiny little swoosh the little
• 1:37:25
  closer. No, yeah.
• 1:37:27
  That's what I have my house now. But no, you feel like a whole
• 1:37:32
  bunk bed. Yeah.
• 1:37:34
  Room enough for all my space for activities.
• 1:37:35
  Yeah. Someone's face reactivities.
• 1:37:37
  Oh my god. Um, In Overlook my parents room.
• 1:37:41
  So there's a little door to overlook their room.
• 1:37:46
  One night laying in the top bunk and for some reason like I wake
• 1:37:53
  up and I roll like the covers over my head.
• 1:37:58
  The light turns on. There's like you don't hear
• 1:38:02
  anybody walking. You, like just turns on Yvonne
• 1:38:05
  situations. I was like a light at the bottom
• 1:38:06
  of the steps like you flip it on.
• 1:38:08
  Yeah, upstairs. Yeah, I got exactly that's how
• 1:38:10
  it is in my parents house, but no, we walked upstairs.
• 1:38:13
  There's nobody walking at all. So, it was, like, laying there,
• 1:38:17
  like, looking up in my, you know, my eyes were open.
• 1:38:20
  I was not moving. I was like, I don't want to move
• 1:38:22
  because I know there's something like they just it, I just felt
• 1:38:25
  like there was something around me and Arrested.
• 1:38:30
  It was there's nobody walking around right and I just happen
• 1:38:38
  to realize that I have 50 million things.
• 1:38:40
  Oh my God, my phone, and I'm deleting them all.
• 1:38:42
  And all of a sudden they're just like this black figure.
• 1:38:47
  No, I think that just crosses like it just waves across my
• 1:38:54
  face. I don't want to need the blanket
• 1:38:57
  and I can see it and Zane, nothing like turns off.
• 1:39:05
  And that's it. Are we talking about Shadow
• 1:39:09
  People today? Oh my God.
• 1:39:10
  Yeah, we're talking about Shadows people today.
• 1:39:12
  I have positives and negative experiences with us.
• 1:39:16
  Mmm. Yeah this is um, I don't know.
• 1:39:21
  I think well, the interesting thing is that I've heard people
• 1:39:24
  like the lady who I watch on Dead Files, she talks about
• 1:39:29
  Shadow People in a different way.
• 1:39:31
  She talks about them being like Ancient and inhuman.
• 1:39:36
  Yeah, that hasn't been my experience.
• 1:39:39
  They're the ones I've experienced seem like people
• 1:39:42
  there, there I can. So that's okay.
• 1:39:45
  Please explain more because I'd be like, what is she talking
• 1:39:47
  about? Yeah.
• 1:39:49
  Now shaped like a people and they just kind of some some of
• 1:39:52
  them are some of them are not, so shadow people can be
• 1:39:56
  associated with of course sleep paralysis.
• 1:40:00
  Before we get into too deep into sleep paralysis.
• 1:40:04
  Get a little history of these shadow things.
• 1:40:08
  So the earliest depiction of a shadow being would have to be
• 1:40:13
  from a short story from 1887 titled Lahore or The Outsider it
• 1:40:25
  was written by a French author. Guided guy did 1 plus r naught
• 1:40:32
  okay so that's French. Yes, I did not.
• 1:40:35
  Take for instance, I made a video and I called the man, Gary
• 1:40:44
  plauche. His name is definitely push a
• 1:40:47
  push but I don't know why my brain just didn't he's from
• 1:40:53
  Louisiana France. Whatever occasion.
• 1:40:57
  Yeah. Oh well we make these mistakes
• 1:41:01
  whatevs. Yeah.
• 1:41:02
  So in the story he tells Tells the tale of an aristocrat.
• 1:41:07
  Who's driven to Madness, the character complains of being
• 1:41:12
  afraid to sleep, where he has dreams, there's a shadowy
• 1:41:17
  presence. See anyone his chest and it's
• 1:41:22
  using its it has its the shadow has its mouth pressed against
• 1:41:26
  his and it's literally, he can feel his soul leaving his body
• 1:41:32
  in these dreams. It's okay.
• 1:41:36
  And that sounds pretty scary. Yeah.
• 1:41:39
  Now, I don't know much about sleep paralysis.
• 1:41:42
  Might have had sleep paralysis that night but who knows?
• 1:41:45
  Um, but I know that people who deal with it, kind of have,
• 1:41:50
  like, similar descriptions like a pressure on her chest and they
• 1:41:55
  can barely breathe, or they great, right?
• 1:41:57
  Yeah, stuff like that. No, the actual word shadow
• 1:42:03
  people were person or Shadow being whatever.
• 1:42:05
  First came up in a radio drama from 1953 titled, the creatures
• 1:42:12
  in the shadows. I wish you to have read with
• 1:42:15
  dramas wol. I mean, this is kind of a radio
• 1:42:17
  drama. This is a bit podcasts are kind
• 1:42:19
  of. I mean, there are podcast that
• 1:42:20
  people do as radio drama. Yeah.
• 1:42:22
  You know, I do love those and you kind of tried to do that
• 1:42:25
  with your YouTube channel, as which we could totally do
• 1:42:27
  something like that as a third podcast.
• 1:42:30
  But before we go, Third, we need to make the first one
• 1:42:34
  financially soluble. Okay, we got a million ideas but
• 1:42:38
  we need that patreon money coming in.
• 1:42:40
  Okay. Oh my God, but you know what?
• 1:42:47
  What are these means? Like you said, some people say
• 1:42:50
  they're like inhuman or you think of them as human.
• 1:42:53
  Some people think of them as demons or right?
• 1:42:56
  Yeah, I've heard that or ghosts or, you know, just figments of
• 1:42:59
  our and sleep. Battled Minds.
• 1:43:02
  Yeah, but what if you don't be sleep, when he's here, that's
• 1:43:06
  message. Well, I'll tell you what, they
• 1:43:09
  aren't there. Actual Shadows.
• 1:43:13
  There have been accounts of these shadow entities,
• 1:43:16
  interacting with objects in ghosts.
• 1:43:18
  Like have you ever heard of a shadow touching a person or a
• 1:43:22
  shadow moving an object? No, because when I hear things
• 1:43:27
  moving, that is a poltergeist and we'll talk.
• 1:43:30
  We'll L won't deal with that. No, let me tell you two little
• 1:43:33
  Tails, okay? So, or one account and 11 year
• 1:43:38
  old girl, she's potsie. This is that night, she's in
• 1:43:42
  bed, she spots a six-foot-tall outline of a person standing in
• 1:43:46
  her room facing her TV away from her.
• 1:43:49
  So, just imagine, yeah, that sounds exactly like Poltergeist
• 1:43:52
  fam. So in the TV turns on by itself,
• 1:43:58
  well like that but continue now after TV turn on this outline of
• 1:44:04
  the person shadowy person it turns around to face her and
• 1:44:10
  after you know a few seconds of them just staring each other
• 1:44:13
  down. It just disappears.
• 1:44:15
  Yeah I've heard lots of that they just kind of like sobayed.
• 1:44:20
  Yeah almost like so you're going to turn my TV on?
• 1:44:23
  And then leaves out rude. Like, like, my dad is things
• 1:44:27
  just kicked in. I'm like, I had to like I don't
• 1:44:30
  like call myself down. I was like, you're wasting my
• 1:44:32
  freaking lecture. So you robbed.
• 1:44:34
  My field is gonna be this one out.
• 1:44:36
  Thanks a lot. You wasted our electricity,
• 1:44:39
  ghosts booze. Another account is when they
• 1:44:46
  were actually being touched by something, So guys sleeping on
• 1:44:52
  the side and his bed you know night time when suddenly he
• 1:44:57
  feels someone sit down right behind his back and then he
• 1:45:01
  starts to feel someone poking him in his back.
• 1:45:08
  He opens his eyes and he looks up.
• 1:45:10
  And he sees three shadow people looking good.
• 1:45:14
  We don't like around his room, that's too many.
• 1:45:16
  Now he did not look around and he did not turn around to see if
• 1:45:20
  anybody was behind him to. Yeah, so he was too scared to
• 1:45:23
  move around. I feel you, so, Either way after
• 1:45:28
  he's done looking at them, they disappear as well.
• 1:45:31
  Hmm. Yeah, so now we can go and sleep
• 1:45:35
  paralysis. Well, it's okay.
• 1:45:38
  We'll talk. What will ask questions about
• 1:45:40
  when it happens when it doesn't happen?
• 1:45:41
  When you're sleep? Okay.
• 1:45:44
  I don't think I have the answers just there right now.
• 1:45:48
  Hmm. Now, there's a common theme
• 1:45:51
  with. Well I've seen in this book
• 1:45:54
  actually. I forgot to mention my source
• 1:45:58
  this book I bought is cold Darkness walks.
• 1:46:05
  Okay hold on. There's a subtable to it.
• 1:46:12
  It's called Darkness walks. I think it's about my candles
• 1:46:17
  acting up. Okay, I get it anyway.
• 1:46:23
  I'll tell you I'll after I'm done, I'll tell you the whole
• 1:46:26
  table. But you know what?
• 1:46:29
  With the with the accounts I've read in this book, sleep
• 1:46:35
  paralysis has been like the common denominator, most of
• 1:46:38
  them, or like them being, like, it happening at night or them,
• 1:46:42
  or this happening, after a person wakes up, and not, I
• 1:46:48
  don't know if you know this, but like, The sleep paralysis it's,
• 1:46:53
  you know, traumatic for my understanding.
• 1:46:55
  Yes. But it happens during REM sleep
• 1:46:57
  to write what it is is that you are in a deep sleep and your
• 1:47:02
  brains like, haha, I'm awake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:47:06
  And during REM sleep, there's this chemical or these hormones
• 1:47:10
  that are released that are supposed to stop you, from
• 1:47:14
  thrashing around, and actually acting out your dreams while
• 1:47:18
  you're asleep. I wish they did.
• 1:47:22
  I wake up all scratched up. I didn't hurt myself.
• 1:47:26
  Me sometimes this happens and then the person wakes up during
• 1:47:31
  REM sleep and they can't move their body because they're still
• 1:47:34
  paralyzed. But there still are awake
• 1:47:37
  tactic. But yeah.
• 1:47:38
  But they're dreaming. Yeah.
• 1:47:40
  And your body is fully conked out.
• 1:47:42
  Yeah. So that's that's basically what
• 1:47:48
  that is. Rosa, those who were unaware of
• 1:47:55
  this phenomenon of sleep paralysis is, it's basically
• 1:47:59
  like, what we just mentioned your sleep, you wake up, you're
• 1:48:04
  fully aware, but you can't move your body, you can't talk, you
• 1:48:09
  gonna move your, basically, your eyes and your brains, like, for
• 1:48:12
  a lot of people, they see a lot of really disturbing visual.
• 1:48:15
  Yes. That's hallucinations are very
• 1:48:19
  common, obviously, Has know. Why do we know why the
• 1:48:24
  hallucinations are? Is it just your brain being
• 1:48:27
  really, really active? Yeah, I think that's just like
• 1:48:30
  that. And just still being like that,
• 1:48:32
  that dream state. Maybe you're seeing your dream.
• 1:48:36
  Yeah, in real life. Yeah basically.
• 1:48:40
  And like, yeah, who stations just don't go from visible
• 1:48:43
  visual. They can, you know it's also
• 1:48:45
  like the pressure, the pressure you feel that's a hallucination
• 1:48:48
  to because there's nothing like really pushing pushing Down on
• 1:48:51
  your chest when you're paralyzed, but that's host
• 1:48:57
  nation as well. So yeah.
• 1:49:04
  In the book. I've never had sleep paralysis.
• 1:49:07
  I know, I don't think I have either but then I didn't I when
• 1:49:12
  I'm thinking about that, tell that story I told you, I'm like,
• 1:49:16
  maybe I was maybe that was that and I just I don't know, I don't
• 1:49:22
  know my body just reacted to me during my cover of my head and
• 1:49:25
  then it did me just not being able to move or something.
• 1:49:28
  Because right after. Right after that happened, I
• 1:49:30
  just went back to sleep. So, yeah, I didn't talk to
• 1:49:34
  anybody about that. Where was your brother dead
• 1:49:37
  below you? Yeah, so I had no bunk bed.
• 1:49:41
  I was on top. My brother's below me and my
• 1:49:43
  other brother was in the other bed, like a single.
• 1:49:47
  Yeah. So where were they just sleep?
• 1:49:49
  Yeah, yeah. Tara, I know it's horrible right
• 1:49:55
  there. I'm pretty sure the house is
• 1:49:56
  just haunted but stories but in this book there are different
• 1:50:05
  religious takes of shadow people or Shadow beings as well.
• 1:50:13
  No these. These beings could very well be
• 1:50:17
  real or it could be your dreams or, you know, whatever.
• 1:50:20
  Okay. Um, but Overworld different
• 1:50:23
  religions. For instance, the Jinn is an
• 1:50:28
  entity from Middle Eastern folk, lord.
• 1:50:32
  They're believed to have been to be invisible creatures, but they
• 1:50:37
  wide array of bilities. They can like shape-shift, they
• 1:50:40
  can, you know, I'm not sure but the Gent like and Western
• 1:50:49
  Society, lot of the Jinn or Genies Cheney but they're not as
• 1:50:54
  positive as like, you know, Prince Ali like it that I mean,
• 1:51:00
  it's kind of a trickster situation.
• 1:51:02
  It's that whole idea of like you know you make a wish but like
• 1:51:04
  are you going to get what you want?
• 1:51:05
  Exactly. But Jim are not actually what
• 1:51:16
  I'm trying to say, evil know, just like fairies their
• 1:51:19
  trickster. Yeah.
• 1:51:22
  Well these are the gym talking about that or not, evil or
• 1:51:25
  actually like in the book. It says they're Muslim Jim.
• 1:51:30
  Jim gent that are from Muslims. OK?
• 1:51:33
  If I miss. So those are supposed to be the
• 1:51:37
  good gin. Non-muslim Jin are ones that are
• 1:51:42
  the evil ones, the more. So what did the good ones?
• 1:51:46
  Do they do the same things as the other one.
• 1:51:48
  Yeah. Basically that's the people yeah
• 1:51:50
  yeah. Wow.
• 1:51:52
  And apparently the good ones can actually pass as being human.
• 1:51:57
  Hmm and they can even marry and have kids, that's right.
• 1:52:00
  Yeah. So you can be living with a gin
• 1:52:04
  if I mean, I'm not entirely upset with that concept.
• 1:52:09
  Jeannie husband. This is a whole new, that's
• 1:52:13
  really genie. That's how the new Aladdin was
• 1:52:20
  at. The end Will Smith is with that.
• 1:52:22
  He hopes on what the hell, right?
• 1:52:24
  He did like that lady. I'm yeah.
• 1:52:27
  Exactly. Now, the evil Jim.
• 1:52:32
  There are thought to be a pit Warriors for the devil.
• 1:52:35
  Okay. At least the money Jin appear as
• 1:52:39
  dark figures and stalk mortal souls and apparently a Jen is
• 1:52:46
  attached to everyone. I don't like that.
• 1:52:51
  So, Our own personal Jen or demon Jen, you know, for us
• 1:52:58
  among non-muslims. I don't get a good one because
• 1:53:04
  I'm not Muslim basically sorry. She's really I can't do that.
• 1:53:10
  I don't like really any religions.
• 1:53:14
  So This is the funny part for me.
• 1:53:17
  It's like our own personal gym. So when we die, and if you're
• 1:53:23
  buried, your gin will sit on your grave in curse, you until
• 1:53:30
  the end of time. What I do to you, what I do,
• 1:53:36
  sir, that's what I was. I was so bad.
• 1:53:38
  I was like, what did I do to you?
• 1:53:39
  Why are you so mad at me? Yeah, like I could just imagine
• 1:53:43
  like my gym because I'm gonna be cremated.
• 1:53:45
  So Imagine my gym as I'm going into like Crematory, it just
• 1:53:50
  shaking his fists in Anger, they kick her.
• 1:53:53
  Now what happens is, whatever mantle you get put on by either
• 1:53:58
  Cassandra or jaehun. They're going to be standing
• 1:54:02
  right next to the mantle like just shaking stink.
• 1:54:06
  I think I'm iron and the worst thing is one of like your kids
• 1:54:11
  further down the line, we'll have like a baby and the baby.
• 1:54:13
  I'll toddle through and be like, look at that big weirdo.
• 1:54:16
  Yes, because you know, it's always the babies that as can
• 1:54:21
  see things. Oh my God.
• 1:54:25
  Another religion. Almost a religion, but it's
• 1:54:28
  additional people know, all too well of Shadow beings.
• 1:54:35
  He's apparently, there are two different kinds.
• 1:54:40
  There are some that are, you know, more aggressive to people.
• 1:54:43
  They're described as being larger than average and average
• 1:54:46
  person and their parents can be monstrous in nature.
• 1:54:49
  So maybe whatever. Whoever you who you were talking
• 1:54:53
  about earlier. Earlier.
• 1:54:55
  When they were talking about shaver people and they said that
• 1:54:58
  they looked like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:00
  Her name is Amy. And she does a TV show or she's
• 1:55:03
  a medium and she talks about like, the the ancient connection
• 1:55:07
  like ancient being? Yeah, actually, there's a great
• 1:55:10
  there was a great episode where, like, if people were like, yeah,
• 1:55:13
  I keep seeing this creature outside of our house.
• 1:55:15
  It's like two stories high and like, Amy was like, leave this
• 1:55:21
  thing is older than this gland and it's attached.
• 1:55:26
  So, move somewhere else. I love those ones when she says
• 1:55:30
  stuff like that. I think it's great.
• 1:55:32
  Why you still there? She's like, you need to move,
• 1:55:34
  like you not. Well, there's nobody who can
• 1:55:36
  make this thick creature leave, because it is older than
• 1:55:39
  existence, you your house is it's not your house, it's not
• 1:55:42
  your house re-fry, can you imagine you look out your window
• 1:55:48
  on the second floor and there's a gigantic just face looking
• 1:55:53
  Shadows thing. No, looking back at you bra.
• 1:55:59
  I'd go back to sleep. New house.
• 1:56:03
  Go find a new house in the morning.
• 1:56:06
  Like, you're not waking me up or like, can you help us?
• 1:56:08
  And she's like, knowing I know I can, this is out of my depth, oh
• 1:56:13
  my God. But yeah.
• 1:56:15
  Or as that one guy from taxa, it's above my head above.
• 1:56:18
  My pay grade. It's beyond me.
• 1:56:20
  It's beyond me now. Yes, it's beyond me now.
• 1:56:22
  Honey, oh my God. Yeah, so, you know these these
• 1:56:28
  can be monstrous in nature. And these beings are actually
• 1:56:39
  products of what was once described as I guess.
• 1:56:42
  Bad Medicine, okay? Or bad Magic.
• 1:56:49
  Say it makes sense. Actually.
• 1:56:52
  So yeah medicine people who have perverted from you know, what
• 1:56:57
  they're actually supposed to use your powers forever.
• 1:56:59
  If they were originally using your powers for like, usually in
• 1:57:02
  for like helping people, healing and stuff like that, and they
• 1:57:05
  turn it to using their powers to attack people instead.
• 1:57:09
  And, you know, they they these creatures or he's beings start
• 1:57:14
  to appear. Hmm.
• 1:57:18
  Yeah. So these beings, they actually
• 1:57:21
  attack you physically and mentally so not to me best.
• 1:57:26
  But yeah, definitely. On the other hand, they said,
• 1:57:30
  Shadow beings. Can be a good present in there.
• 1:57:36
  Actually. Tolerable is I guess like
• 1:57:37
  Spirits like ghostly? I think?
• 1:57:40
  Yeah and I have a, I have a friend whose house I stay at
• 1:57:44
  sometimes and I just be somebody like walking back and forth on
• 1:57:48
  the porch. Doesn't seem to be bothersome at
• 1:57:50
  all. He just seems to be restless.
• 1:57:54
  I think he but I mean, I don't know.
• 1:57:56
  It just seems to be a shape that every once in a while.
• 1:57:58
  You just see it moving around in here like all right, buddy, hope
• 1:58:01
  your ass. Life is cool.
• 1:58:03
  Like my goodness I'd know I wouldn't really look that bad
• 1:58:10
  though. Like what's wrong with that?
• 1:58:11
  I mean I guess if you're not bothering me that.
• 1:58:13
  Okay. Yeah.
• 1:58:14
  Like what's the problem? If it doesn't hurt you or scare
• 1:58:17
  you it was true. It was no problem but fell
• 1:58:20
  asleep. When goodness.
• 1:58:21
  Okay. Anyways, and I do spirits, you
• 1:58:23
  know, these Shadows Spirits are actually there to like guide
• 1:58:26
  people are, you know, they might give you advice, you know,
• 1:58:30
  unspeaking advice but you know, They're the guide you in the
• 1:58:33
  right direction. Last, I'm going to finish this
• 1:58:38
  off with one of the I guess most shared experiences Shadow
• 1:58:44
  People. Okay?
• 1:58:45
  And that's the Hat man. Have you heard of that me?
• 1:58:49
  I think I've heard of people all seeing a spirit with a hat.
• 1:58:55
  Okay, this is he's described as a tall shadowy figure.
• 1:59:02
  Male stocking the corners of people's rooms or, you know,
• 1:59:05
  wherever all while wearing a hat, it could be like a wide
• 1:59:10
  brim, you know, had or I think I've saw her a fedora as well.
• 1:59:16
  Oh, no. What do you call those people
• 1:59:19
  who just wear fedoras, what are you gonna?
• 1:59:21
  I forget the term. It wasn't very positive, it's
• 1:59:24
  not a positive one, so I'm not going to use it.
• 1:59:25
  So used to him, it was a thing. We made fun of people for a long
• 1:59:28
  time ago. Yeah.
• 1:59:29
  Those Fedora wearing Males who well actually, every Milady
• 1:59:36
  milady. M'lady.
• 2:00:11
  So they actually might be spirits of people who weren't so
• 2:00:15
  good in their lives and passed on pretty horribly as well.
• 2:00:21
  So, maybe he's milady's. They were just Well, I mean,
• 2:00:25
  it's belief that like, most people who stay have a reason to
• 2:00:29
  fear the afterlife. Yeah.
• 2:00:31
  They're afraid of what comes after.
• 2:00:35
  Did I am? I am I going to be okay?
• 2:00:39
  No one knows, no nose. But there are also a regular
• 2:00:46
  citing during sleep paralysis. So, they might be a ghost.
• 2:00:51
  They might just be your sleep paralysis demon coming too.
• 2:00:56
  Sit on your chest and you know what I mean?
• 2:00:59
  Hmm some ufologist think that these can you say that word
• 2:01:06
  again? Followed you.
• 2:01:07
  Oh we talking about aliens You always perverting my, my ghost
• 2:01:13
  stories with alien talk, I can't help me.
• 2:01:16
  There's aliens is everything. Okay?
• 2:01:17
  I just want to enjoy goes. Well, this is just a short
• 2:01:23
  little blurry. So you've nice and safe ghosts.
• 2:01:26
  This they might be an alien species like this.
• 2:01:32
  Did you kill lucky? Now I see why people keep
• 2:01:34
  comparing us to Shane and Ryan because I do not share your same
• 2:01:39
  feelings about helium's In these are awesome.
• 2:01:44
  Okay. I don't believe that they're
• 2:01:47
  like little green people. Okay.
• 2:01:49
  No, neither why. I mean there didn't have to be,
• 2:01:53
  there might be some little green aliens.
• 2:01:55
  But, you know, they don't have to be looked like the big-headed
• 2:01:57
  ones that everybody thinks they look like, they're not going,
• 2:02:00
  we're not going to aliens right now.
• 2:02:01
  I'm just saying so you follows, you think that this hat, man,
• 2:02:04
  might be an alien species and he's here to observe and collect
• 2:02:08
  data from us, never know. Just standing in your is like
• 2:02:12
  the Men in Black. Okay?
• 2:02:14
  Just and your Ryan. It's a ghost with a hat.
• 2:02:22
  Sitting in the corner, taking note, these are Mama's video, we
• 2:02:33
  should have video because we're like a good like 10 seconds.
• 2:02:38
  My reaction was silence. It was ridiculous silence.
• 2:02:43
  It was a funny, the face you made.
• 2:02:47
  You never know. It could be that.
• 2:02:49
  I'm pretty sure it's not that you know, 18, that's the
• 2:02:52
  annoyance of the argument. You never know.
• 2:02:54
  It could be. We want to think a lot of things
• 2:02:57
  are aliens, but we're really just ghost.
• 2:03:03
  I haven't, I wanted to like read one of these accounts from the
• 2:03:07
  this book. Okay.
• 2:03:09
  This is a short one is real short one.
• 2:03:12
  And oh the book is titled Darkness.
• 2:03:15
  Walks the Shadow People Among Us.
• 2:03:18
  Hmm, I'll give it all to her later.
• 2:03:21
  I'll probably I'll put in the show notes but that's the title
• 2:03:24
  of the book. So this is a tail and this is
• 2:03:29
  its title stalked, by shadows. And it's like I said, real
• 2:03:33
  short. So, although Sarah Kelly has
• 2:03:37
  never seen the Hat Man. Her mother and grandmother
• 2:03:40
  weren't so lucky. And this is a, my mother, my
• 2:03:44
  mom, and my grandma have always told me about this spirit, that
• 2:03:48
  was following them wherever they moves.
• 2:03:51
  She said, in the beginning, they were both here.
• 2:03:55
  Heavy breathing. Beneath my mom's bed when she
• 2:03:59
  was little, then one night, the monster came.
• 2:04:04
  Out from under the bed, a tall man, a long coat with no face
• 2:04:10
  and black holes for eyes, wearing some sort of hat.
• 2:04:15
  Luckily, I've never experienced that but it still gives me
• 2:04:19
  chills. Huh.
• 2:04:23
  I don't think I, oh my God. Could you imagine?
• 2:04:27
  No, don't imagine because I still have like that.
• 2:04:30
  Minor experience where like you lay your feet off the edge of
• 2:04:33
  the bed and you're like a better.
• 2:04:34
  Not the one other touch my feet? Nope, I was like, you know what?
• 2:04:39
  Assaulted me, we're someone was like if you have your hands
• 2:04:43
  laying off the bed, the demons going to like eat it.
• 2:04:48
  Eat your hand and then in the next panel they have their, but
• 2:04:51
  hanging off the bed. I was going to say, if you get
• 2:04:55
  your hand off the bed team is gonna hold you here.
• 2:04:58
  Is that to say, please hold my hand.
• 2:05:13
  Oh my God. But yeah, that's what I wanted
• 2:05:17
  to do something a little out of been trying to like find more
• 2:05:19
  spooky things that cover because I've been doing because the
• 2:05:22
  Cryptids like Is it? I wanted to get back to the
• 2:05:25
  freaking black-eyed children, where people listening, and it
• 2:05:28
  is getting freaked out because of the little black eye
• 2:05:31
  children, coming to their doors. But yeah, that's in the
• 2:05:37
  black-eyed children, think? One work on me because I don't
• 2:05:40
  open the door for nobody. Except if I know you're coming
• 2:05:44
  over. That's right.
• 2:05:46
  Don't show up unannounced. Please don't and I won't you
• 2:05:48
  can't show show up. Unannounced have keys.
• 2:05:51
  So they know they can get in because they have a key.
• 2:05:54
  Hmm. But stranger knocking on the
• 2:05:56
  door. Like listen.
• 2:05:57
  The other day, a lady from Comcast stop by and I like, I
• 2:06:03
  slid, the had the door slide lock on house like black lady.
• 2:06:08
  And I was like, okay now open the door and she was just like
• 2:06:10
  high and I was like six you own your own like box and I was like
• 2:06:14
  I do and she's like, oh okay. Because for people who don't own
• 2:06:18
  them, I guess they're switching to these other ones.
• 2:06:20
  And then people who move here in the future don't have to pay
• 2:06:23
  for, like, a box from Comcast. Comcast.
• 2:06:27
  Yeah. But I was just like, why are you
• 2:06:29
  here? She was very nice, though.
• 2:06:32
  Have very cute. Hair.
• 2:06:33
  But I was just like, I am not expecting visitors.
• 2:06:39
  No, I have that. No, soliciting sign on my door,
• 2:06:42
  really? Yes.
• 2:06:44
  Yeah, because oh my god. Look story time for another day
• 2:06:47
  but After freaking, um, um, um, it's vacuum sellers or I forget
• 2:06:54
  go door to door vacuum people that want to be a thing when we
• 2:06:57
  were younger, that's still a thing and they don't leave when
• 2:07:02
  you say, no, thank you, I'm not interested.
• 2:07:04
  Well let me show you this. They try to keep talking
• 2:07:06
  yourself like make a mess on your carpet and then vacuum it
• 2:07:09
  up so that you can throw good. It works bra.
• 2:07:12
  Yo, we he was do was there for like I want to say like, two
• 2:07:16
  hours trying to talk is into this stupid ass.
• 2:07:18
  As vacuum so, see, that's just like when you go on a trip and
• 2:07:22
  they try and like they, like, will give you all these things.
• 2:07:24
  If you come talk, listen to our timeshare.
• 2:07:26
  Yeah, you can't do that. That's not know.
• 2:07:28
  So after that, I got to know soliciting sign that says, no,
• 2:07:31
  soliciting don't really doorbell, don't make it weird.
• 2:07:36
  We're now open door for you. No thank you.
• 2:07:41
  But yeah. That's where I got like and it's
• 2:07:46
  funny because they came and they came to the door and then they
• 2:07:48
  were like, oh well, we're offering like a heat, the free
• 2:07:51
  house cleaning or something like that.
• 2:07:52
  What will clean your wherever your most walked about part of
• 2:07:57
  your houses? And we're like, oh, also my want
• 2:08:00
  to clean the stairs today. Let's go.
• 2:08:01
  So, That's not how it turned out.
• 2:08:06
  So, anyway, thank you guys for listening to this week.
• 2:08:11
  Yeah, we had a good time. As usual as usual can always
• 2:08:15
  find us on all our social is what you're all linked on when
• 2:08:17
  Killers get caught.com. Yes, check it out.
• 2:08:21
  Please also links to our patreon other ways to support us.
• 2:08:24
  And thank you so much for listening.
• 2:08:26
  Yes. Bye-bye,