Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Creating Systemic Change: Keely Cat-Wells on The Untapped Power of the Disabled Community

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Creating Systemic Change: Keely Cat-Wells on The Untapped Power of the Disabled Community · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: pretty This is pretty smart. I don't know about you,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: but I had a week last week. I hope you
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: didn't have a week like I had. You know, they
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: happened once in a while, and I was just kind
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of taken out. I was not productive, I was exhausted,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and it took me some time to climb my way
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: back to what feels like normal. This week's going a
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: lot better. So Hello, I hope you're having a beautiful day.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you today's episode means quite a
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: lot to me. Our guest is Kilee Catwells, and she's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: someone I care a lot about. And this topic just
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: generally doesn't get covered, the deep and pervasive discrimination faced
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: by disabled people. And then I say that sentence, and
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I think, what is the inverse of that? The opposite
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: question of the deep and pervasive discrimination is what are
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: we all missing by undervaluing this community, Because just like
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: every marginalized community, there is an untapped power in the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: disabled community, and I don't think it's getting enough attention.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: If I'm being truly honest with you, I didn't give
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it enough attention. My best friend from high school works
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with children with disabilities, and when she was in school,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: she would tell me just how extensive the challenges and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: discrimination can be. But it wasn't until I met Keighley,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: our guest today, and her business partner, Sophie Morgan, that
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I really started to grasp how foundational these issues are.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know until I saw it close up. Society
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: is set up around non disabled norms, which means the needs,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the perspectives, the stories of disabled people just are not
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: seen as a priority, and then if they do get attention,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: it's usually through a very specific, narrow lens, like the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: heroic disabled person. That narrative tends to glorify struggle without
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: addressing real issues rights and needs. I also think it
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: can make any disabled person feel like they have to
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: be heroic, and that's not the only path. I feel
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: like everyone has the right to be mediocre, just like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: anybody else. You know. So here's something that might surprise you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Twenty six percent of adults in the US, that's one
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: in four people have some form of disability. We're talking
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: over sixty one million Americans, and yet the stats are
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: pretty staggering. The employment rate for disabled adults is just
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: twenty one point three percent, and to understand how low
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: that is, the employment rate for adults without disabilities sixty
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: five point four percent. That's a third less than a third.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Disabled individuals are also more likely to live in poverty,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: with a rate of twenty five point five percent, which
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: is more than double that of those without disabilities. These
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: disparities are not just numbers. I know it's hard to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: hear the numbers and internalize them, but what they really
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: are are barriers that show up in so many ways.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Think about websites and apps. They're often not designed to
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: be accessible. Public transportation can be so inconsistent, leaving people stranded.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Even basic activities like going to social events or accessing
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: medical care can be riddled with challenges, especially for those
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: with invisible disabilities. And how about this. Banking systems still
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: aren't fully accessible, which makes it hard for people to
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: manage their finances independently. Even something as basic as voting,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: a fundamental right in America, can be a struggle. Despite
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: legal protections, many polling places aren't set up to be
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: fully accessible, which can disenfranchise voters who need additional support.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: And honestly, those are off the top of my head.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: But how about this stat If we all live long enough,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: most of us will experience some form of disability at
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: some point in our lives. It could be vision, hearing,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: we could break a leg. So, with the knowledge that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: all of us, to varying degrees, are affected by accessibility,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: why are we not doing the work when there's still
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: so much work to do? Our guest, Kiey Catwells is
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: truly leading the charge. She's not just changing the conversation
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: around disability, she's creating systemic change. From founding her own
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: talent agency See Talent to launching making Space Media, she's
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: made it her mission to amplify the voices and talents
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: of disabled people across industries. And Killey's work is about
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: recognizing the value, the skills, and the economic power that
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: already exists within the disabled community and making sure that
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the world sees it.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The buying power of disabled people has completely been underestimated.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: It's thirteen trillion dollars in global buying power. We often
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: have to tell people, remind people, educate people, convince them
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to see it and talk about that economic power of
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the disabled community and that untapped market. But if we
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: don't address the human rights aspect, then we will not
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: have systemic change.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Killey's journey started with a love of dance. At just seventeen,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: she was on the brink of her dream career as
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a dancer performed in the West End. But then her
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: life took an unexpected turn, one that would have crushed
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: many of us. After enduring a series of misdiagnoses, invasive surgeries,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and medical malpractice, Killey found herself facing a new reality,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: living with a permanent disability, and just like that, her
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: dance dreams were over. I'm being vague with details because
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I want Killey to tell you her story, but I
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: will say her story took a detour through some of
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the toughest challenges anyone could face. She was in a
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: really brutal mental health space and then someone said something
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: that changed her.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: You said, you need to take yourself out of your
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: own pity pit, like stop focusing on you. You just
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: have to find a way to give.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So she did. She started first with her talent agency
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: see Talent, and now with Making Space Media, which focuses
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: on producing TV, film and promotional content that centers the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: disabled voice, and she and Sophie have a first look
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: deal with Hello Sunshine.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Disabled people are some of the most creative, intelligent, skilled,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: qualified people you will ever find, and they have been
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: left on the table for far too long.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Keighley's approach is direct. She's not interested in inspiring stories
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: that focus on struggle. Instead, she wants to focus on
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: what the world gains when it includes and invests in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: the disabled community. Her work has led to unprecedented initiatives,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: including groundbreaking partnerships with major networks, and she's constantly advocating
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: for systemic change, like making workplaces truly accessible and breaking
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: down stereotypes that have kept talented people out of the conversation.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: This episode is about Keelley's story, and it's about the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: bigger picture, how business, media and communities can do better
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and why they should. So I'm asking the questions, what
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: changes have been made, what changes need to be made,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and what responsibility do we all have to pitch in.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Keighi's insights are a call to action for all of
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: us to think more inclusively and to understand that systemic
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: changes benefit everybody, not just to select few. I think
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: that's really important to note. It could be easy to
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: look at the title of this episode and think, Hmmm,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: this one doesn't apply to me. But it does because
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: whether it's breaking down barriers in Hollywood or any industry,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it's reshaping how we think about systems and accessibility. Kighey's
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: vision is clear. It's time for the world to catch up. Kiley,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pretty Smart.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, thrilled to be here.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. Okay, So before we even begin,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I have a favor to ask you. So, I think
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: disability language is for ever evolving, and if I say
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: anything that is not up to date, I need you
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to check me.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: I love you for that. I definitely will, but I
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: will say one thing with language, I think people tend
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: to get so wrapped up in it and it's used
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: as like this superficial way not to get into the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: deeper issues. So I certainly will, and I so appreciate
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you saying that. But that is my like, that's my caveat. Yeah,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. Okay, So, before you were an entrepreneur,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: before you raised millions of dollars, before your advocacy work
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: you're a ballerina living in London. Tell me a little
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: bit about little KIGHI Were you a happy kid?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I was. I was so. I grew up on a
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: farm in West Sussex, in the middle of nowhere, in
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: the countryside of England, and I had the best childhood ever.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I really I loved it. I loved it other than school.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I loved it so my parents, they had their own business.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: They they really put me to work very young, and
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: I just I loved it. I enjoyed running around being free.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: But then when school happened, I did not enjoy it
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: so much. I was bullied pretty badly as a kid,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: but that made me spend more time at home on
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the farm and then eventually working. From a really young age,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't know you were bullied very badly, and I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: still to this day don't know why. I think I
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: am dyslexic. I did get diagnosed with dyslexia at a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: young age, and I was often separated in the classroom,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and I think that definitely didn't help. But I think also,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: like I lived on a farm, like I went to school,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I'd do the horses in the morning and I would
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: probably smell like a farm and kids don't. They don't
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: get it, they don't like that, and I was maybe
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: just slightly weird to them.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Do you carry that with you to this day?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, definitely in what ways. I think, like all
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: of us would obviously this in this world, were made
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: to be so conscious ourselves. I have always been very
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: self conscious, and I think because of that bullying, but
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I think it's also in a positive way. Everything that
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I do, I try and do it with as much
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: kindness as I possibly can. Yeah, And I truly believe
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: that kindness can change the world. And so those small
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: simple things, those small simple gestures that people can make,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I think people have often don't realize how much they
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: mean to people. So I think in a good way.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: It's affected the way that I think about treating other
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: people and not perfect in any way, shape or form.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And there's probably people out there who have been like, wow,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: she wasn't kind to me. But I try so so
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: hard to make sure that everything I do is with kindness.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I think we'd be hard pressed to find somebody who
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: felt like you weren't kind for them. So you dreamed
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: of being a musical theater dancer on West End and
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: on Broadway stages and you were seventeen years old and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: living in London training to be a dancer, and then
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So I also when I was in school, so I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: started dance very young because of the bullying. My mum
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: was trying to find spaces for me where I could belong,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and immediately gravitated towards dance. So when I was around
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: maybe nine, I started performing in the West End and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: started working from, as I say, a really young age.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: And then when I was seventeen, the dream had always
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: been to move to London go to one of the
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: big dance academies, and I got into the one that
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: was at the top of my list. The previous year
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I hadn't got into that school and I was so disappointed.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So it was such a big deal that I'd got
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: in the second time around this year. And I remember
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: starting everything was fine, I felt fine, but then relatively
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: soon into training, I just started to just get sick.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I'd just be in pain, symptoms that I couldn't really explain,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: and then started to go to doctors try and get
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: some answers. Thought it would be maybe a relatively hopefully
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: simple fix, but then was consistently told that I was
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: making it up, that it was all in my head.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: That is the saying that stays with me forever, that
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: it's all in your head, and just being so dismissed
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: by the medical system and having to try and find answers,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and then that led to many, many years of searching
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and medical malpractice and mistreatment by the whole system.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Wow, I actually didn't know that about your story. Yeah,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: what were you eventually diagnosed with?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So it's quite complicated. So I originally got told that
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I had Chrome's colitis, autoimmune, various other things, and then
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I was given I had a surgery, and then long
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: story short, had about eight surgeries in less than a year,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: continued to get tests. I would get told by one
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: doctor that I had one thing, get told by another
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: doctor that I had another thing, and then none of
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: these doctors would communicate with each other. There's a massive
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: communication issue with doctors and specialists. They just do not
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: speak to each other. So I ended up getting put
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: on a surgical emergency ward after a surgery that I
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: had that went wrong, and that surgery led to me
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: having a permanent ilostomy, which was something especially as a dancer.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I was terrified about because it completely changes your body
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: for the rest of your life. But saying that it
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: stopped so many of the symptoms that that were so
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: just disabling. But it's weird how it made me disabled,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: but it actually freed me in so many ways. So
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: it's very complicated. The diagnosis piece is very layered and complex.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Did you get a call that something had gone wrong
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: or you felt like something had gone wrong?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So I knew as soon as I woke up that
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: something had gone wrong.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: How do you know?
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Just didn't feel right? And I because I at that
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: point woken up from so many surgeries, and you know
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: the difference between like normal pain and not normal pain.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I think, Okay, I just knew, and that doctor is
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: actually going through I think a lot of legal battles
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: right now in the UK, So I was kind of
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I felt tested on like a guinea pig in many ways.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: For a long time. There was a lot of experimental
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: surgeries and things that I shouldn't have been put through,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and that was definitely one of them. And still to
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: this day, I still have issues because of that specific surgery.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: That's hard.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: It's like it's as you said that that's hard. For
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: me to even hear. Do you still feel devastated by it?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I feel so let down by the system that's supposed
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to save you, and I still I think and I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: try and block it out in so many ways. I
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: have definitely not dealt with it yet. It just gave
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: me a completely new perspective, and especially as a white
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: woman like I get so privileged, right, but this helps us.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I can't even explain it. I can't even explain it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: It just completely new perspective on life.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: How did your life changed when you realized you were
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: going to have to give up on your dream of
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: being a dancer.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I went through a long phase of depression. I didn't
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: think I wanted to be around anymore. I thought everything
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I was done, and I actually remember being in hospital
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and I didn't want any visitors. I didn't want anyone
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to come and see me. And that was for a
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: long time. So I was in hospital, in and out,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: but mainly in for about four years. And I didn't
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: have I didn't really want anyone to come and see me.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But someone a friend, someone who at the time was
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: a teacher at one of the schools that I was
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: well at, the school that I was trying to go
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to and she came in and she was like, you
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: just have to find a way to give. Yeah, And
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: that completely changed my life. And it took me such
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: a long time to realize what she'd actually said to me,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: but in that moment, I was like, okay, and she said,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: you need to take yourself out of your own pity pit, like,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: stop focusing on you. You're being so selfish right now,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: stop focusing on you. Take yourself out of that pity
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: pit and give. And that was the switch that was like, Okay,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: So I may not have the dream that I always wanted,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I may not be able to go on the path
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: that I always thought I was going to go down,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: but maybe I can help other people go down their
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: paths and achieve their dreams. And then that led to
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: the start of me just trying to help friends get
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: jobs within the entertainment industry and eventually spiraled into a
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: much bigger kind of direction in life.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Did you notice people reacting to you or treating you
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: differently when you became disabled?
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: So when I first came out of hospital, and it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: really interesting when I came out of hospital, although they
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: kind of give you your initial like medical supplies that
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you're going to need. They give you the number of
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the places that you're going to have to continuously keep
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: ordering medical supplies from for the rest of your life,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and all these other things. They don't actually say like, oh, congratulations,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: welcome to the disabled community.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: It's not like.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: That kind of graduation. So for for a while, I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: just I didn't even know that I was disabled, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't expect people to treat me any differently. But
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I do remember having and because I have a hidden disability,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: sometimes I use a cane and sometimes I don't, And
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: when I have a cane, it is very interesting to
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: see the difference of how people react and treat me.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: But I do remember when I got on the bus
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: time pretty soon after coming out hospital, and I really
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: needed to sit down, and I sat in where it
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: had like the disabled sticker thing where it was specifically
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: allocated to disabled people. And I remember sitting in that
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: seat and someone was getting so mad at me and
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: just selating me and saying like, oh, I'll take the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: advantage of the system, don't be so ridiculous, like all
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: these horrible things, and I had I did not have
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: the energy or the confidence to say, actually, I live
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: with a hidden disability. I need to sit because of X,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: y Z reason And that was the first kind of
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: small realization like, oh, okay, things are going to be
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: slightly different. And I do remember running out of medical
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: supplies for the first time because I completely forgot that
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I have medical admin now and I need to remember
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to consistently make sure I have a stock pile of
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: medical stuff and being like, oh my god, I can't
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: leave my home because I don't have what I need,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: and things like that started to become real.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So you say disability comes in money forms and
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: many different lived in experiences. In recognizing that wide range,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: how do you understand yours?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: So great question. So I for the longest time would
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: say I'm not disabled, I'm chronically ill. And I didn't
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: realize the full breadth of the disabled community. I had,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: because of the media, a very limited knowledge of what
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: disability means. And if we'd look at representation that we've
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: seen within film and TV, it's usually been disabled people
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: have been either the villains, victims or inspirations and these
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: very specific tropes, and I was like, I don't fit
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: into any of those. And I also thought only disabled
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: people there wheelchair users, right, had no idea that it
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: encompassed everyone who was neurodivergent, who was chronically ill, who
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: were ambilatory wheelchair users, and all of these differ lived experiences.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So and I'm still uncovering it to this day. I'm
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: still trying to continuously remind myself that you can also
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: be proud of being disabled while having a complicated relationship
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: with on medical conditions. Yeah, and that's something that I
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: struggle to continue to remind myself.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Not waiting. It seems like such a character trait of yours.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: You just constantly pushed forward. I kind of think of
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Ariana Grande because she's like this tiny little girl, so
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: beautiful and has this insane voice and no one expects
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: the voice to come out of her. And that's how
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I feel when I look at you, like a tiny,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: beautiful girl and like a huge amount of just like
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: ambition and leadership qualities and pushing forward. That's the word. Really,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: it's pretty remarkable. I was surprised to learn that you
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: got fired at one point.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Which time, What do you mean, which time were you
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: fired multiple times? I mean, I do, I don't know.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It was at the time when I was having to
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: serve coffees. I was so bad. It was up like
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: seven flights of stairs. They didn't like let us take
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: the elevators, and I was I had already come out
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: of hospital. This was like one of my first internship opportunities.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And I couldn't take the stairs because of my disability,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: but they wouldn't let me take the elevator because it's
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: you can't take the elevator because only the important people
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: go in the elevator, not the interns. And I had
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: to serve coffees. So I would be so bad because
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I physically could not get up and down the stairs.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Oh god, So I got fired from that job.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not the one. That's what I thought about,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: But that's wild. Was that your job in Hollywood? No,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that was in England, So what's the one in Hollywood?
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So I ended up losing a job because of disability discrimination.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: When I moved to LA I was so excited about
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: getting back into the creative industries and looking for all
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: the different avenues that I could do that, and I
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: remember were just getting this amazing, amazing opportunity. It was
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: kind of like that feeling again of when I got
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: into that dance school in London, and then after disclosing
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: my medical conditions, after them finding out that it was
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: to have a permanent eye as to me and I
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: have various other different accommodations that I need, I got
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: told that I could no longer have that job, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it was once again that same feeling of when I
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: was in dance school and just losing it, and I
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: continuously by myself because I'm like, it's my health, my
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: other is stopping me from doing so much. But it's not.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: In that case, the environment could have changed, they could
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: have changed their actions. It could have been such a small, small,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: slight change to what they had in their mind, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they didn't want to do it. It wouldn't have cost
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: them anything extra. It was just ableism and discrimination. And
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I remember when that happened too. I had no idea
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: that that was against the law right, I had no
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: idea of my rights. I still probably at that point
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: didn't openly identify as disabled, but I remember speaking to
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: other people in the community and them saying, you know,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that's that's not right, Like there are laws to protect you.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: There's the ADA in the US, there's the Equalities Act
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: in the UK, but then also so many friends and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: people in the community saying that this happens all the time. Wow,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: and there's just this normalization of discrimination. And that was
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: definitely a light bulb kind of moment of what am
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I going to do now?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Is that when you started your talent agency, it is
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: it is? So what did you name your talent agency?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: So I named it See Talent. So it was a
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: talent agency that specifically represented disabled artists, so disabled actors, writers, directors,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: content creators. And I named it see Talent because as
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: disabled people, we often don't get access to option A
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: or option B, and we have to create our own
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: option C. And I was actually taught that by an
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: amazing disabled artist called Lachi, who is a blind singer, songwriter, musician,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And it was really creating that agency was really the
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: just the doors opening to finding that pride too in
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: my own identity and realizing that actually it's going to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: be okay. You don't again like you can move tracks,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: you can move parts.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: What have you learned about your own resilience through all
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: of this?
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I am a very determined and impatient person, and once
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I get my mind stuck on something that I want
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: to achieve, I will do everything in my power to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: achieve it. But if something out of my control happens
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: and that target has to move, I think I've learnt
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: now that that's okay and you can still make it work.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Have you ever hid your disability or tried to.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Hide it so much? Yes? Oh yes, I wanted to
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: completely hide it, and I realized very quickly that when
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I tried to hide it, I a wasn't my full
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: self because it is a big part of my identity.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But I also then didn't get the accommodations I needed.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't get the access I needed. I was making
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: myself unwell and in more pain than I needed to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: be because I wasn't advocating for myself. I was just
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: trying to hide a massive part of myself.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So you don't do it anymore.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I try not to. I try not to. I'm very
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: proud of this community and very proud to have a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: within it, and trying very hard to just use my
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: own experience and my own lived experience to hopefully forward
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: the work. But it's still hard. There's it's yeah, it's
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: an evolving challenge.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Do you mind saying more? When you say it's still hard?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: What do you mean I think there's so much shame
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: that I feel still because you're so you're taught by
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: society that disability is an inherently bad thing.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And I also grew up in a household where my
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: grandparents were like, we're so proud of not having to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: use mobility aids, and around me everyone saying, wow, look
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: there's so old and they don't have to use a
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: walker or a cane or and and they look so good.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And I know like that just every time someone says that,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: it's just a reminder of like, oh, yeah, of course,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: like hoping yourself is bad, when it's like, no, actually
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I would I benefit from using okay, and it's going
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: to make me better. There's no shame in doing it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: There is so much internalized ableism that I'm trying to unlearn.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: But it's also that period of my life was such
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a traumatizing time and I haven't I haven't even spoken
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: about half of what I went through, and I'm not
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: ready to yet. One day I will be that I
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: was abused so badly by that system, and I carry
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: that within my disability because that's the time of my
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: life that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Made that a reality, right, It was the result of
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: all of that. How much peace have you made with
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: the cards that you've been dealt with now?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I would say I am in the best place I've
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: ever been in my life, and I've definitely made peace
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: with with the journey that I'm now on as opposed
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: to the one that I could have been. So I
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: do think there's also that grieving period that you have
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: to go through realizing that what you wanted to do
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: is not a reality, and you have to grieve that
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: like anything else that I'm so excited and grateful for
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the people I get to work with and the places
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I get to go and the life I get to live.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And I still have pinched myself every day waking up
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: in La Thor like move out to Los Angeles. I
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: never realized I feel the same way.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I look at the palm trees and I'm like, I
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: live here, Like this is amazing.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Is there any tool or anything that really helped you
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: unlock some of the depression. Was it a great therapist
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: or just time alone? Like what helped you?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Definitely friends and family? Wow. And that woman that said
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: giving is key, and it sounds so corny and so cheesy,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: but it really helped me as soon as I took
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: took the energy off myself and put it onto others.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: It was completely life changing. But I still deal with it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: It never goes away. You have to work on it
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: every single day. But the love of my friends and
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: my family, and having those deep conversations and being able
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: to be real with people rather than just those superficial
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: kind of pretending everything's fine when it's not, and just
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: really getting into it with people, and also realizing that
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: everyone is going through something. Even as perfect as things
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: look on the outside, there's always something happening and you're
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: not alone in that. And I kind of relate that
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: to chronic illness and disability as well. I'll get told
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: so many times like, oh, you look like you're doing
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: great at the moment. You look fine, You look so
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: pretty and wonderful, and you look so healthy, and you're like,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I can wish you could see my insides. Yeah, not
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: so much. So you just never judge a book by
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: its comer.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Well said, so an untapped power that the disability community holds.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I've always felt like every marginalized group or minority group
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: holds this untapped power because of their unique experiences like
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they can bring something to a situation where other people
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: totally have blind spots. What, in your opinion, what is
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that untapped power?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, it's the untapped talent of disabled people. Yeah,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: we have not had access to so many rooms and
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: so many jobs, and so many opportunities and so much
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: funding just because of the preconceived notions around disabled people.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: But disabled people are some of the most creative, intelligent, skilled,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: qualified people you will ever find, and they have been
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: left on the table for far too long. So first
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and foremost, it starts with the people. Yeah, But then also,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: the buying power of disabled people has completely been underestimated.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: It's thirteen trillion dollars in gbal buying power with friends
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and family involved within that as well, thirteen trillion, thirteen trillion.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It's huge, it's huge.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: But it's just been so overlooked. And I will say,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and this is something I learned with my first company,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: which is we often have to tell people, remind people,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: educate people, convince them to see it, and talk about
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: that economic power of the disabled community and that untapped market.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: But if we don't address the human rights aspect, then
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: we will not have systemic change. I think that economic
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: power will get us in the door, but it won't
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: allow us to stay in the room. And we have
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: to address the civil rights and human rights aspects as well.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And so what are the civil rights and human rights aspects?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Basic human decency, the ability to be able to go
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: to work, to have healthcare, to have accessible transportation. So
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: much of it just still does not exist. We are
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: so often the last issue to be looked at, even
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: during the pandemic, to say, when people do not resuscitate,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: orders put on their door forcibly because our lives were
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: deemed as less valuable.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Do you want a magic mine?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I would love to. What is this?
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So I'm working with them. It's a productivity shot, so
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: it boosts energy and helps me focus. But it's all
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: natural because I don't want to drink a coffee in
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the afternoon, I'll never sleep.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very green. Hopefully I don't spill it. I
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: know I would spill to I'm very clumsy.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It's delicious though.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one more interview of the day, and
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: so I have to down one of these before Kimberly comes.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Nice. I like how it is magical magic.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I like that the name is nice night, good name,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: magic mind. I know it's good only twelve Magical Ingredients
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: says it crushes procrastination. There's a twenty eighteen study by
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: a censure in the American Association of People with Disabilities.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: They found three things that I think are worth noting. One,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: companies that hire and support people with disabilities within their
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: workforce have twenty eight percent higher revenue than those that don't. Two,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: those companies have higher profit margins. Three, the us GDP
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: could increase at least twenty five billion dollars if more
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: people with disabilities were given the opportunity to join the workforce.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: That is remarkable from an economic standpoint. We are all
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: missing out, and that is I guess what moves like capitalism? Right, yep,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, And yet studies have shown that disabled people
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: are more than twice as likely to be on employed
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: even less likely to graduate from college compared to non
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: disabled individuals. You are really trying to harness the power
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: of the disabled community. What power are you trying to
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: harness to create long lasting change?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I want to see more disabled people in leadership positions. Okay,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: disabled people getting the funding, the becoming the CEOs. They
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: are finally getting the visibility that they deserve, and we're
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: finally seeing I would love to finally see access beyond
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: basic compliance become a norm, access to education, access to
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: access to work, just the basic basic things, because I
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: think people don't realize how much energy it takes to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: have to advocate and ask for the simplest of things.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: So when you say simple things, I think of on ramps,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I think of accessible restrooms. I know that's not really
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: meaningful change. That's like the tip of the iceberg. What
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: does meaningful change look like?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Definitely the tip of the iceberg. I think a good
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: example is again the pandemic when disabled people have been
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: fighting for decades to be able to work from home
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: and to have that as a basic accommodation, and it
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: was only when non disabled people needed it and there
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: was a global pandemic that that accommodation was granted, and
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: we saw the employment rates of disabled people spike during
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: that time because we finally got that accommodation granted. And
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: that's not all disabled people, that is a group of
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: disabled people. That's not everyone has different access requirements and wants.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: But I think it shows the deep seated bias that exists,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and if we just got those just listen to, things
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: would be so different.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: That's a really good example. It costs nothing.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: It costs nothing, and even if it does even if
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: it costs something, usually it is a drop in the bucket.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: But if it really doesn't cost in the grand scheme
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: of things, allowing someone to do their best work, bring
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: them whole, bring their whole selves to an environment, surely
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't even matter.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so you found it making space media to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: center the disabled voice. What are the portrayals of disabled
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: characters that you want to see on screen in Hollywood?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I want to see I want to normalize disabled people
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: being experts in subjects beyond just disability. Okay, I want
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: to see the disabled surgeon, the disabled model, the disabled mom,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the disabled politician, like any role pretty much could be
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: someone who was disabled.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: It does like blind casting.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I do also want to see
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: the intentional roles as well, Like I want to see
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: my experience reflected on this screen. I remember coming out
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: of hospital and just craving seeing someone who had a
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: similar condition, or an ilioster me, or something that even
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the tiniest bit that I could relate to because I
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: remember googling my condition and googling and Elos to me
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: just being like, oh my god, I am terrified. And
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I was also on award, on the Gastro Award, so
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: just old people. So it was me and a ton
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: of old people. So I just wanted to see young, cool, hip,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: sexy disabled people and I couldn't find that representation anywhere.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: The only piece of representation I found that I could
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: even slightly relate to was on one of those medical shows. Yeah,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: and the person who was receiving the per and then
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: aust to me, unfortunately chose to have assisted suicide. And
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I just remember that chattering my mental health. So I
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: think often people underestimate the importance of representation in all
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: its forms on screen. It's so powerful for people's mental
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: health and what we believe that we can achieve.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the last I read, you raised two million
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: dollars in your preceed round? Is that correct? Still?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: First of all, congratulations, thank you. Many people still view
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: disability through the lens of nonprofit. You say, that's annoying.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, to put it politely, yes, what else do you
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: say to that? Oh my gosh, like fuck? You can
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I say that? I am so mad every time someone says, wow,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I love what your building. It's so cool. Just make
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: it a charity. It will be so much easier. People
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: love to give money to poor disabled people. It makes
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: me so mad, so so mad, and I'm so passionate
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: about about this untapped opportunity that we haven't seen, but
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: also about as a disabled entrepreneur there I know and
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: have so many amazing disabled entrepreneur friends who are so underfunded.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: So disabled entrepreneurs are four hundred times less likely to
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: be funded than non disabled entrepreneurs, four hundred four hundred
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: times less likely. And I think it's women get less
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: than two percent capital the disabled people. It's it's hardly
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: of a check. That four hundred times number came from
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the first ever report done on on disabled entrepreneurs, which
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: was only done, which was done last year.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: So were you a part of that.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I was not a part of the report that I am.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I know the people who were, and I'm so proud
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: to know them, and I'm so grateful for them. Their
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: work is so needed.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Wow. I think you draw a lot of parallels between
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the skills that are required for entrepreneurship and what you've
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: learned from being disabled, what are the parallels in your mind?
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: So, and actually something that we've just built on the
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: tech platform, and the Making Space tech platform is a
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: tool that turns the lived experiences of disability into transferable skills.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: And something that I didn't realize was from having to
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: manage a quite extensive medical team and keep very good
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: documentation of every procedure, everything I went through, it would
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: help with managing my team at work and being organized
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: in a fundraise. And you really take for granted those
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: lived experiences, but they can be so beneficial. And also
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: just being someone who has to navigate the world slightly differently,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and also having to have had learnt that at such
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: a pivotal time in my life at the age of seventeen,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: when you're not supposed to be going through those wild,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: life changing experiences, I think has really set me up
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: for success as an entrepreneur when you have to do
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: those things very frequently.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I really love the name of your company, Making Space.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: You're good at naming things. Thank you for anybody who
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what's the mission.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: So our mission at making Space is to create meaningful
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: careers for disabled people and to really provide the tools
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and the resources for disabled people to become influential leaders.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm incredibly grateful and lucky to be building this
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: and creating this alongside Sophie Morgan, who is a phenomenal
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: disability rights advocate and is very fierce as I know.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: You know, she could pack a punt. She is, meir, Yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: as you can she I love her too. And we,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: with Making Space and Making Space Media, really have this
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: dual approach of through technology we can increase employment and
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: democratize free and accessible education for disabled people, and then
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: through the media side, we can really increase disability representation,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: tell those untold stories and hopefully just tell tell the
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: stories that needs.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: To be told, the ones that you wanted to see
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: on screen.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: The ones that the seventeen year old me which existed.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: So this really sort of shocked me. It was interesting
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: to learn that the disability rights movement adopted many of
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: the strategies of the civil rights movements before it. What
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: do you think most people don't know about the movement
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and what did it adopt.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people also they don't recognize
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: that disability or to also intersects with every other identity
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that exists. Yeah, and those disabled people that crawled up
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: the capital stairs, that that lockdown, and were in those buildings,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: those federal buildings for a record amount of time, that
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: were so resilient and so forceful and so determined and
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: dedicated to make this change. They put their bodies at risk.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: They did whatever it took to get us those very
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: basic fundamental rights that we deserve. I just think when
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: people think of disabled people as less as more vulnerable,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: as people to be pitied, they need to go and
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: google the Capital crawl. They need to go and look
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: at those people who fought for five or four They
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: need to go and watch those clips because, oh, my goodness.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen them.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Oh you have to watch. You have to watch the
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: film Crip Camp. Crip Camp, Crip Camp on Netflix. Okay,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: co directed by Jim Lebrett, who had good friend, amazing human,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: very talented director. It really tells those untold stories.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Okay. The Americans with Disabilities Act was signed into law
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and President Bush said at the time,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen ninety one, so this was
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: passed a year before I was born. What did it
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: look like for disabled people before this was pasted?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Do you know it makes me just even emotional even
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: just thinking about that that day and that time and
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: how hard people fought for that to be a thing.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I was very grateful to have got to spend time
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: with Judy Human, who is known as the mother of
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: disability rights. She sadly passed away a couple of years
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: ago now, and Judy often talks about her story as
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: a young girl who had polio, who became disabled, and
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: who couldn't get access to school. They turned her away
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: because it wasn't accessible. There was no rights in place,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: There was no laws in place for her to be
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: able to say.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: That's not right.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: It was just normal for disabled people to be turned
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: away from education, from employment, from health care, from stores.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And she then wanted to go on to be a
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: teacher and they did a medical exam and they turned
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: her away because of her medical condition. And whilst we
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: still see issues exactly like that today, we have laws
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: in place to be able to say that's not right,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: and the law says it's not right. And it changed
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: the world. And it is incredible that the ADA has
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: been used as an example globally as this is how
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: it should be. This is the best we have, the
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: best in America. Really, even though it hasn't been really
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: formally updated or amendered in a very long time, the
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: ADA still stands as the best law for protecting disabled
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: people globally.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know that, which.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Is slightly scary too.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: A little bit because I hear you today saying that
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: there's so much that still is bad.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: There's so much work still to do, but compared to
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: developing countries and other countries out there who still don't
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: have anything in place. But also a lot of countries
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: have used the ADA as a foundation to build to
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: build their laws on top of as well, which is
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: really cool.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: What are the best ways you found for people to
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: be an ally to the community.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, listen to disabled people, listen to what
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: we're asking for, and support and advocate as well. So
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Sophie founded a campaign called Rights on Flights and she
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: has been making waves with trying to make travel more accessible.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Flying on an airplane for a wheelchair user, for all
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: disabled people is extremely frustrating and inaccessible, and the laws
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: don't apply like the ADA, the Equalities Act, they don't
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: apply in the air so yeah, so they often you're
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: just treated so poorly and you have no way to
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: hold the airlines accountable. So allies can absolutely get behind
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: these movements that are already there, that already created support them.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: We really need the burden to also be taken off
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: of the disabled people because we're also we're tired. It's exhausting,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: and yeah.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: It's exhausting, Yeah it is. So as part of making space,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: you've recently done some work with NBC.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, so, over the past year we were we began
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: work with NBC Sports to increase the employment of disabled
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: people for the broadcasting of the Olympics and the Paralympics.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: And through the platform and through training and through sourcing
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: amazing talent, we were able to work with NBC to
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: get a historic amount of disabled people hired for the
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: broadcast of the Olympics and the Paralympics. And one of
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: the cool things is being able to get disabled people
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: hired not just for the Paralympics, but also for the Olympics. Wow,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and Sophie will also be the first disabled host of
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the Paralympics. But we made a lot of firsts with
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: NBC and it's been extremely exciting to I think, really
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: use this as a blueprint for what other people can do.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: And it was so simple. It's so easy. There's so
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: many talented people out there, we just have to break
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: down the barriers to the opportunities.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: You've had so many incredible experiences, met so many interesting people.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Is there something that stands out to you as a moment.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: That's a great question. I would actually say getting to
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: meet Gloria Steinem who is such an icon for lack
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: of a better word, and getting to learn from people
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: like Gloria and what they did, the fight that they
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: went through. And I said with NBC it was easy
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: NBC and getting disabled people in the door, and getting
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: talented people hired, that the fight is not easy. But
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: the simple act of employing people, of treating people with
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: respect and dignity and recognizing their skill, I mean, that
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: is so simple. So I think meeting Gloria and learning
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: about her experiences, and also just realizing that whilst we've
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: come so far, we're still fighting the same fight in
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: so many ways.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like hearing that it was so difficult
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: for her makes it feel more palatable for you?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: I think it does. I think it's also scary and
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: frustrating when you really dedicate your whole life to advancing
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: the rights of disabled people of this, you dedicate your
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: life to this fight and knowing that you won't see
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: it come to fruition in your lifetime. You'll have the
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: small wins, you'll have the good moments, and that you
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: really pass the bat into the next generation. And it
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: just continues, it continues on.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Is there anything tangible that you've taken from her and
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: learned that you could share with us?
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I would say with Gloria, I think she is known
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: for looking at issues in such an intersectional way and
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: that there's never one individual soul path to change, you
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: have to include everyone. And I think that's the biggest takeaway,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: is making sure that you are bringing everyone in and
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: not leaving anyone behind.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: You're being mentored by her right now. I think part
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: of mentorship is that the mentor either sees parts of
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: themselves in the mentee or wants something about the mentee
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: to rub off on them. What do you think she
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: sees in you?
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Has? She told you she hasn't. But I love that
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: you said that. I love that, I hope. So what
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: an honor to even have that thought. You know, I
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: think that Gloria was so brave. She took so many
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: mageou swings, and she did things that people had never
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: even thought about before. I think of the playboy Bunny
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: experience that she had in the journalism that she did,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: and she was so smart and intelligent, but she also
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: spoke up. And I want to channel more of that
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: in the work that I do. I think I have
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: a tendency to maybe channel British energy of like the
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: no sit down, like don't be so loud, but you
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: need to be so I want to I want to
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: channel more of that.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: You're gonna stand up, m h. I think you have
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: in so many ways. Keiley, thank you okay, little rapid fire, Okay,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: something about yourself that you're most proud of.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Persevering.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Who's your biggest role model?
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: My grandpa?
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Really, I thought you were gonna say Gloria.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, definitely Gloria, But my grandpa was everything to me.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: What's his name?
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: So he passed away a couple of years ago. His
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: name is Paul Zetter cv CB. He has an award from.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: The Queen whoa why So.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: He was one of the founders of the sports Age Foundation,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: which was a foundation that supported getting athletes to the
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Olympics and Paralympics. So this NBC opportunity also feels very
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: full circle, and I well, wish I could talk to
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: him about it.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Why was he passionate about that?
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: He, I think was just so passionate about bringing opportunity
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: to the people who didn't have that access. And he
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: recognized that there were these very skilled, talented people who
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: were also passionate about representing their country but didn't have
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to do it just because of finances, just
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: because of their own their lived experience, their situation, and
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: he wanted to change that.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: That's pretty unbelievable. That's in your bloodline. Yeah, wow. What's
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: the number one lesson that your mom has taught you?
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Oh? My mom is the best. She has instilled this
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: unbelievable positivity within me. Even at the lowest of lows,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: she would make a way to make sure that I
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: genuinely smiled. So just constant positivity, not in a toxic way,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: but just in a way to get you through the time.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: So you need to get through.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: What's the movie that you put on when you're sad?
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: The parent trap?
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Are you Hallie or what's the other one?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the British one, Yeah, the British one with a
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: bad accent.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, was the accent bad? I always thought it was
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: good growing up, it was a little bit bad.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I feel like my accent kind of sounds like that
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: now because I've lived in America.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: So that's hilarious.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: One thing every woman should try once.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, oh that's such a good question. Something
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: every woman should try once? Oh, I guess wearing men's clothes.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I love that comfortable. What made you say that to you?
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: That's fabulous.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I love being comfy me too.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I shop in the men's section. Sometimes it's better.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Right and cheaper. I feel like it's better.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like cool and oversized, yes, Okay. A life
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: motto that you live by.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: A life motto. I love that Oprah quote when opportunity
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: and preparation come together or something like that equals luck.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: I like that too. A book that you think should
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: be required.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Reading, definitely, Sophie's Driving Forward Memoir. It's amazing.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: The smartest decision you've ever made.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Starting my own business. Why I think I could have
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: been fighting to get employed, struggling to get employed for
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: a very, very long time being able to be self sustaining.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: And yes, it is so hard that being able to
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: change systems that are so broken and just do things
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: in the way you want to do them whilst having fun. Yeah,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: I would say that is the best decision.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, last question, grab a question everything.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Card, all right, what lesson has taken you the longest
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: to learn? Patience? But I still haven't learned it. I
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: still haven't learned it. I'm so impatient.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure in what you do you need patience.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I think impatience might be a good thing.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I'm so impatient. It's awful. If anyone is on the
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: other end of an email for me, I will pester
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: them until they reply.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I actually really like that. That's not a driven person,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, I pester people today reply to Yeah.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: You have to need it right, And I love a
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: yes called email, cold message message and on every platform
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: stop them. Really it was a little bit.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Thank you. That was so great.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.