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Gilbert Mane – 7 Steps to Freedom · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Vox Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
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  Speaker 1: rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Vox Novus, the New Voice. Everyone wants to be free
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  Speaker 1: and happy, but many of us feel unhappy, constricted, confused,
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  Speaker 1: and we seem to have little or no control over
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  Speaker 1: the external events which shape our lives. Those are the
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  Speaker 1: words of my guests this week on Box Novus, Gilbert Maine,
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  Speaker 1: who shares that there are seven steps to achieving what
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  Speaker 1: everyone wants. Gilbert Maine from Sydney, Australia, was a lawyer,
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  Speaker 1: a teacher and is an entrepreneur and a writer. In
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  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, Gilbert discovered a school of Practical Wisdom.
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  Speaker 1: In twenty twelve he delivered a Tedex talk on education
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  Speaker 1: and unity. Gilbert has also authored three thriller adventure novels,
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  Speaker 1: and with his wife Sarah, is a keen ballroom dancer.
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  Speaker 1: His website is gilbertmain dot com and he joins me
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  Speaker 1: this week to share his path and book Seven Steps
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  Speaker 1: to Freedom, a systematic guide to what everyone wants please
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  Speaker 1: join me in welcoming to Vox Novis Gilbert Maine. Welcome Gilbert,
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  Speaker 1: Hi Victor, how are you. I'm wonderful, Thank you Sara,
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  Speaker 1: and I hope the same with you. I had the
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  Speaker 1: wonderful opportunity of interviewing your wife, Sarah about a year ago,
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  Speaker 1: and she suggested that you reach out to me because
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  Speaker 1: you have a lot to share also, so thank you
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  Speaker 1: so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 2: My pleasure.
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  Speaker 1: Gilbert. Please share with our listeners your early path and
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  Speaker 1: how it led to you being head master in an
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  Speaker 1: independent primary school in Australia.
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  Speaker 2: Ah huh, Well, I grew up in a Jewish family.
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  Speaker 2: We weren't particularly religious. Sort of Jewish adjacent would probably
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  Speaker 2: be the best description, but you know, we were proud
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  Speaker 2: of being Jewish and went along to synagogue occasionally, but
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  Speaker 2: there was no spirituality as such in the home. But
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  Speaker 2: I had my own personal spiritual journey and it really
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  Speaker 2: was very personal because there was no there was sort
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  Speaker 2: of direct interventions from outside. I had spiritual experiences when
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  Speaker 2: I was very young. When I was ten, I was
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  Speaker 2: seeing a looking at a tree when I was sitting
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  Speaker 2: at a bus stop on my way to school, and
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  Speaker 2: suddenly I was limitless and universal, and it seemed to
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  Speaker 2: come somehow rather through that tree, and forever after, as
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  Speaker 2: I said at that bus stop, I watched that tree,
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  Speaker 2: waiting for that door to open again, and of course
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  Speaker 2: it never did. And then I was in one I
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  Speaker 2: was fourteen. One of the teachers at school said to me, look,
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  Speaker 2: there's a chap coming to Sydney to give a talk.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe you'd be interested. I have still to this day,
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  Speaker 2: have no idea why she picked me. But I went
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  Speaker 2: into town, sat in a Sydney town hall and it
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  Speaker 2: was Krishnamurti and I remember what I was thinking at
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  Speaker 2: the time. I can't remember what he said, but I
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  Speaker 2: just remember thinking, gosh, there are people in the world
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  Speaker 2: who know how things work, they know what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: They know why we do things we don't want to do,
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  Speaker 2: why we don't do things we do want to do,
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  Speaker 2: which really bugged me. Why did that happen? Why did
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  Speaker 2: you just say things that you knew you shouldn't say,
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  Speaker 2: And why did you remain silent when you should speak up?
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  Speaker 2: How come? Why was that? Why is that a thing?
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  Speaker 2: And life went on and one day my brother said
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  Speaker 2: to me, I, look, there's this school of human development,
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  Speaker 2: it's called the School of Practical Philosophy in Sydney, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm going along. I think you should go too, So
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  Speaker 2: I joined. And the minute I walked through the di
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  Speaker 2: virtue of the minute I walked through the door, the
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  Speaker 2: min I've heard the first words from the tutor's mouth,
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  Speaker 2: I thought, Ah, this is it. I'm home. I've discovered
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  Speaker 2: the thing I've been looking for my whole life. And
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  Speaker 2: I was there for forty years from that day on.
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  Speaker 2: I became a tutor. But in the meantime, I'd gone
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  Speaker 2: to university, did a law degree, did a couple of
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  Speaker 2: law degrees, became a solicitor, which a lawyer. And I
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  Speaker 2: don't know if you've ever done this, Victor, but I
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  Speaker 2: got up every single morning to go to my job
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  Speaker 2: with a lead brick in my stomach of deep, dark
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  Speaker 2: black depression. Because to say I hated it would be
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  Speaker 2: putting it very mildly. It was just I was just
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  Speaker 2: in such so totally in the wrong place, and I
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  Speaker 2: just you know, I was young, I didn't know quite
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  Speaker 2: what to do, and I stuck out it for ten
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  Speaker 2: or twelve years. But in the meantime, I'm going along
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  Speaker 2: to this school of Practical Philosophy. I'm studying the wisdom
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  Speaker 2: of the ancients and the moderns, and learning to meditate
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  Speaker 2: and engaging in activities and focused attention and all these
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  Speaker 2: sorts of things that were making my life so much
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  Speaker 2: better in one way, while I was in this sort
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  Speaker 2: of downward trajectory with my working life in another. And
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  Speaker 2: then I got married, and so there's family to look after.
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  Speaker 2: And then one day the people in the School of Philosophy,
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  Speaker 2: the School Practical Philosophy, had started a day school and
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  Speaker 2: the school for children for young children in elementary school.
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  Speaker 2: You'd call it an independent school. And it had the
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  Speaker 2: normal curriculum basically, you know, the maths of science, the
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  Speaker 2: English and the grammar and the spelling, timestables. But also
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  Speaker 2: it had elements in the day for children to practice
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  Speaker 2: being present, being mindful, had practical wisdom and virtue, how
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  Speaker 2: to be kind, how to be tolerant, how to be courageous.
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  Speaker 2: And the children really really flourished under this regime. But
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  Speaker 2: in the meantime they needed a tame lawyer to be
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  Speaker 2: on the board of governors. So that was me, and
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  Speaker 2: I was on the board of governors of the School
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  Speaker 2: for several years, and after three or four or five years,
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  Speaker 2: it's probably fair to say that it was not flourishing.
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  Speaker 2: There was still only about fourteen, fifteen, twenty twenty five
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  Speaker 2: children in the school. There wasn't really attracting enrollment. The
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  Speaker 2: people running it were all mothers. They're all busy, they
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  Speaker 2: had families, and as it grew slowly the responsibilities grew,
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  Speaker 2: the government, the government, regulation, local councils, building, there were
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  Speaker 2: things that need to be dealt with. So one day,
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  Speaker 2: completely out of the blue, they turned to me, the
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  Speaker 2: people on the board and the involved with the school,
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  Speaker 2: said to me, would you like to be the head master?
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  Speaker 2: Because they felt they needed just someone who had, in
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  Speaker 2: a weird way, no skin in the game, in other words,
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  Speaker 2: no children at the school, they didn't have a dog
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  Speaker 2: in the fight, and someone independent and someone who could
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  Speaker 2: just have the time and energy to build the school up.
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  Speaker 2: And I talked to my wife about it, because it's
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  Speaker 2: a big change, and we decided that this is one
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  Speaker 2: of those open doors that you need to You've got
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  Speaker 2: a choice in life. You either step through. There's a
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  Speaker 2: tide in the affairs of men which you've taken it.
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  Speaker 2: The flood leads on to fortune and this was one
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  Speaker 2: of them. So I said yes, and I began learning
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  Speaker 2: on the job. I became the head master of the school.
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  Speaker 2: This was in nineteen eighty nine when the school had
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  Speaker 2: I think thirty five children, and it was really my
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  Speaker 2: job was to maintain the principles upon which the school
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  Speaker 2: was founded and to build it up into a significant
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  Speaker 2: educational academic institution.
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  Speaker 1: And you did that for thirty years. I did wonderful.
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  Speaker 1: And what were some of the classes that you introduced.
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  Speaker 2: There, Well, we had Sanskrit. It was one of the
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  Speaker 2: basic subjects that needed to be taught in the school
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  Speaker 2: because the English in the tradition of independent schooling in
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  Speaker 2: the English speaking world based from England is the grammar school,
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  Speaker 2: and that's all based on languages, classical language. So we
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  Speaker 2: introduced Sanskrit for every child from five. We had children
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  Speaker 2: from the age of five to the age of twelve,
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  Speaker 2: so they all had to have a weekly several weekly
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  Speaker 2: sanscrit lessons. Then we also introduced Latin. Latin was compulsory,
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  Speaker 2: but I taught Latin and I used to have some
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  Speaker 2: like twenty six year olds turn up at eight o'clock
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  Speaker 2: in the morning before school for my Latin class, and
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  Speaker 2: we had other things where the children all had to
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  Speaker 2: sing good music. The principles upon which the school's based
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  Speaker 2: there were two principles. Only give the children the best materials,
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  Speaker 2: the best curriculum, and have it taught by the best people.
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  Speaker 2: So that's a very simple way of putting a you know,
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  Speaker 2: it became very complex and involved. But the best materials
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  Speaker 2: are well Shakespeare for English, Mozart for music, sandscript for language,
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  Speaker 2: basic mathematics for maths. So it's not that hard actually
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  Speaker 2: to pick the best curriculum. And then you can do
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  Speaker 2: all the other stuff too. It doesn't exclude fun play
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  Speaker 2: and interesting books and other things that children want to do,
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  Speaker 2: but you'd have to have the best stuff there as well.
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  Speaker 2: And then the best people are people who know themselves,
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  Speaker 2: are connected to some sort of spiritual center in themselves
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  Speaker 2: and can pass that on to the children, and as well,
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  Speaker 2: basically skillful teachers. They can get it across, they can
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  Speaker 2: understand an individual child's needs, they can respond to them,
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  Speaker 2: and they can get the curriculum, get through the curriculum
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  Speaker 2: in a state in a given time. They're organized. Those
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  Speaker 2: are the best people, and as headmaster of a virtuoso staff.
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  Speaker 2: It made my job incredibly easy in one way. In
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  Speaker 2: some ways it wasn't that easy in others.
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  Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, you gave a ten X talk on
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  Speaker 1: education and unity. What were some of the points that
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  Speaker 1: you shared and have these been adapted into school systems.
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  Speaker 2: Well, they've certainly came out of our school and well,
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  Speaker 2: it's actually interesting when I'll take the last bit first,
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  Speaker 2: the answer is no. I find this extraordinary. We were
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  Speaker 2: a The education system in Australia is this. Two thirds
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  Speaker 2: of children go to public schools and one third of
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  Speaker 2: children don't. Of the children who don't, two thirds go
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  Speaker 2: to Catholic schools and one third go to other independent,
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  Speaker 2: non government schools. So non government education in Australia is big.
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  Speaker 2: The third of all children. It's hundreds of thousands of
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  Speaker 2: children go to non government schools. It's fully funded, not
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  Speaker 2: fully funded, it's generously funded by the government. There's a
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  Speaker 2: story there too, but there it is. And we have
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  Speaker 2: freedom to teach what we want to teach. And we
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  Speaker 2: started our school in nineteen eighty five, a few years
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  Speaker 2: before I became headmaster, with this unusual curriculum Sanskrit, Latin, Mozart,
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  Speaker 2: Shakespeare and the results. There's a national testing system in
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  Speaker 2: Australia called napland and there are league tables. They're not
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  Speaker 2: meant to be, but they get published. And our school,
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  Speaker 2: John Collett School, that's what it was called, was in
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  Speaker 2: the top ten primary schools in Australia consistently every single year.
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  Speaker 2: Now there's seven six hundred give or take primary schools
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  Speaker 2: in Australia, so we're in the top ten and we're
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  Speaker 2: with very very eminent, very well credentialed schools. Were in
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  Speaker 2: that group, and nobody ever came to me to say,
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  Speaker 2: what are you doing? How can we do what you do?
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  Speaker 2: And I always found that extraordinary, that the lack of
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  Speaker 2: the complete lack of interest in a system that was
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: clearly working in an obscure, small elementary school in the
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  Speaker 2: top right hand corner of Sydney. It's to me that's
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  Speaker 2: very strange. But so no. So the answer is I
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  Speaker 2: gave this Ted talk and those people who are interested
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  Speaker 2: loved it, and others became deeply incurious about it. But
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  Speaker 2: some of the points I made in that Ted talk
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  Speaker 2: were one of the main ones is this everybody or
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  Speaker 2: human beings have a physical body. Obviously they have a
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  Speaker 2: mind with which they think, they have, a heart with
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  Speaker 2: which they feel, and a spirit with which they exist
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  Speaker 2: or be or whatever that's their true self. Their indwelling isiness.
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  Speaker 2: And you need food, exercise, and rest for each of
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  Speaker 2: those for call them bodies. So you need good food,
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  Speaker 2: you know, good nutritious physical food. You need to run
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  Speaker 2: around and exercise and go to the gym. And you
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  Speaker 2: need when the time's are right, you need to have
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  Speaker 2: some sleep. You need to rest. So what about the mind,
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  Speaker 2: what about the heart, what about the spirit? You need
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  Speaker 2: the same for each of those levels. And I made
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  Speaker 2: that point in the Ted talk. And the other thing
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  Speaker 2: I spoke about was what is education? What is it actually?
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  Speaker 2: And you need a teacher, you need a pupil. You
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  Speaker 2: need something that's going to be communicated, call that knowledge.
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  Speaker 2: And you need the process. You need the flow between
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  Speaker 2: those three other things. So there's really four entities, the teacher,
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  Speaker 2: the pupil, the knowledge, and the discourse, the conversation, the interaction,
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  Speaker 2: and all three, all four rather need to be present
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  Speaker 2: and aware and willing at the point where the education
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  Speaker 2: is going to happen. The teacher is absent, the pupils dreaming,
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  Speaker 2: the knowledge is non existent and there's no interaction, well,
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  Speaker 2: nothing's going to happen. But if all four are available,
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  Speaker 2: then miracles happen. And that is really the miracle of education,
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  Speaker 2: that knowledge can pass from one human being to another
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  Speaker 2: and both can grow from that process. And I made
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  Speaker 2: the point in the talk that when I stood in
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  Speaker 2: the classroom in front of children, I wasn't always the teacher,
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  Speaker 2: and they weren't always the pupil. I learned from them
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  Speaker 2: and they learned from me, and the communication flowed very freely.
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  Speaker 2: And it was a wonderful experience to walk into a
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  Speaker 2: classroom and to learn from the children, but also just
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  Speaker 2: from the things that would pop into your mind while
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  Speaker 2: you were in front of a class of willing, eager,
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  Speaker 2: interested young learners.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, how did your experiences at all of the teachings
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  Speaker 1: you received inspire your book Seven Steps to Freedom, A
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  Speaker 1: Systematic Guide to what everyone wants?
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  Speaker 2: Well, basically, I was in the school of practical philosophy.
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  Speaker 2: I received enormous help, wonderful wisdom. It was showered upon
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  Speaker 2: us from for you know, obviously there were fees involved,
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  Speaker 2: but not much. For what you paid and what you
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: got it was a very very very good deal and
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  Speaker 2: I just felt such incredible gratitude for everything I had received.
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  Speaker 2: And I was a teacher, that was my profession, that
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  Speaker 2: was my vocation, and I just felt the need to
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: give back. So I wanted to put it all encapsulated.
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  Speaker 2: And there were certain reasons why I put it in
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: a book, because I was actually tutoring in the in
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  Speaker 2: the adult school and also teaching a weekly philosophy class
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  Speaker 2: to children in the in the day school. But I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to put it in a book because I was
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  Speaker 2: part of my tutoring jobs in the in the philosophy school,
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  Speaker 2: was in the introductory group, and many of the students
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  Speaker 2: would say to me, look, this is all very wonderful
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the night, but I sort of forget and it sort
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of slips my mind during the week between classes. Is
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  Speaker 2: there some book core rhyma or introductory text that I
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  Speaker 2: can have and refer to to remind me of what's
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  Speaker 2: being said in the class? And basically the answer is no.
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  Speaker 2: And I looked around, and you know, there are plenty
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  Speaker 2: of books, there's tons, but they were totally on the topic.
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  Speaker 2: So I thought, well, look, if no one else is
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  Speaker 2: going to do it, I might write one, and so
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  Speaker 2: I did, and I sat down. I tried to put
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  Speaker 2: together as much of the wisdom in a very practical,
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  Speaker 2: very simple, very accessible, and I hope entertaining way that
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  Speaker 2: so that anyone can pick it up and either read
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  Speaker 2: a cover to cover if that's what they want to do,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: or dip into it and pick out practical exercises that
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  Speaker 2: will help them overcome habits and connect with the deeper
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  Speaker 2: inner self and make their life basically better.
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  Speaker 1: In this context, how do you define the word freedom?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Well, yes, that's interesting because you know, you look
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  Speaker 2: around the world now and everyone's everyone seems to be
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  Speaker 2: very angry. I don't know why, but they just seem
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  Speaker 2: to be. It seems to be a default position. They
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: kind of get off on it. They enjoy being angry.
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  Speaker 2: That's my sort of feeling. I don't want to be.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to read into other people's motives. As
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  Speaker 2: I say, I have a hard enough job living my
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: own life, let alone trying to live someone else's. But
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: and I thought, well, what's what why? And usually it's
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  Speaker 2: because of externals. Something's going on, some politician turns up
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  Speaker 2: on the television and suddenly they're angry. Someone says something
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  Speaker 2: that triggers them, and they're angry and they're upset, and
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  Speaker 2: they're you know, everything's going wrong. And so the response
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  Speaker 2: for most people is to try and change the world.
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  Speaker 2: In other words, vote that politician out, or you know,
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  Speaker 2: change the systems at the university or in their family
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  Speaker 2: or whatever. And as I've said before, this is a
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  Speaker 2: job with the future. It's never gonna it's not going
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  Speaker 2: to happen. It just is not going to happen. So
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  Speaker 2: unless you just like working for no reward and no result,
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  Speaker 2: then my advice is to stop and to look within
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  Speaker 2: and look at the thing that is triggered. So if
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  Speaker 2: someone says something and you get upset, well why and
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: you can sort of tell it's you. The problem is you,
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  Speaker 2: mostly because two people can be standing next shoulder to
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  Speaker 2: shoulder and the same thing can happen to them and
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  Speaker 2: one will get upset and now one won't. So it's
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  Speaker 2: not an objective truth that the thing that was said
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: was upsetting on an objective level, it was upsetting to you.
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  Speaker 2: So you are the field upon which you need to
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  Speaker 2: begin work. And freedom is stepping free of your own limitations, habits, responses, reactions, requirements, judgments, criticisms, whatever,
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  Speaker 2: and going free. And in fact, that's how I would
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  Speaker 2: define the word, well, define how i'd use the word forgiveness,
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  Speaker 2: and forgiveness we think is letting people off the hook
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  Speaker 2: for something rotten that they've done. But forgiveness is really
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  Speaker 2: giving something else for whatever you're getting, and returning love
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  Speaker 2: for hatred, returning compassion for misery, whatever, And it's stepping
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  Speaker 2: free of your own limited, constricting responses to life.
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  Speaker 1: You begin Seven Steps to Freedom with a chapter entitled
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: why should you read this book? And the first subheading
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: is the problem what you were just talking about is
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  Speaker 1: that the problem?
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  Speaker 2: That's the problem. The problem is we want to be
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  Speaker 2: free and we're not. We want to be happy and
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  Speaker 2: it's fleeting. We want to be rich and we never
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: have enough, you know, written or not just rich with
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: a bank account, although that's part of it, but you know,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: rich in friends, rich in love, rich in experiences. We
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: never seem to have what we want to have, and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: that is the problem. The problem is so the either one.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: That's life. That's the way it is. You know, you struggle,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: you're born, you struggle, you die. It's not a particularly
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: happy story. And it then certainly doesn't have a happy ending,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: or there's an alternative story where you're born, you learn,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you go through ups and downs, and you grow and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you grow in freedom, and you grow in love and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: you grow in happiness, and you pass on in a
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: state of grace. And I would love for the wisdom
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: that I received to be part of someone else's journey
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: where they've found every day they're just a bit better,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: a bit happier, a bit freer than they were the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: day before.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, you had mentioned the word forgiveness, which I teach
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: is very important, forgiveness of self and forgiveness of others.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Why is that important?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean consider the alternative. You know this. I
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: can't remember who said it, but resentment and anger is
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: like drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die. Yes,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: it's it's not a it's not a it's not a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: good way of living to carry around. In another way,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: another person said to me, look, someone did something. Maybe
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: they mentioned something to I think with someone I was tutoring.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Anyway, they said someone's something to them
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: that was hurtful and they felt, you know, they were
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: they were upset and angry, and they then they just
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: stewed on it. They thought about it over and over
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and over again, and they suddenly woke up and said,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: this guy did this to me once. I have done
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: it to myself a hundred times since then. Who's worse? Right?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I have repeated what was said over and over and
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: over and over to myself, and it makes me feel
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: worse and worse and worse and worse. If you had
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: a method that allowed you to just basically slough off
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: that particular burden, to untie the chains that bind and
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: to step free, I mean, wouldn't you take it? Wouldn't you?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And it costs you nothing and it and the benefit
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: is amazing. And this is forgiveness, and forgiveness is there's
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: also justice. If someone's done something underward and they need
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: to learn a lesson, there's no we're not saying don't
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: do that, you know some people for their benefit. I
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: used to have to punish children for infractions, and I
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: used to have to do it. I used to have
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: to make very very sure that I wasn't cross or
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: angry with the child for being for having stepped out
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: of line. I would I didn't. I needed to be
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: able to, as it were, punish or discipline the children
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: with love. I used to have love in my heart
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: because otherwise it's just a practical thing. One I'm going
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: to have I'm gonna have a terrible day. And two
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: it's not going to work. The energy that flows the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: learning experiences it were, is not going to be effective
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: because the child's not going to be learning what I
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: want them to learn, which is to basically step free
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of whatever it is that they cause them to do
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the thing they do. So there is justice and it
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: does need to be meeted out in full measure. But
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: at the same time, there is forgiveness, where you give
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: something else for the thing you received. You receive anger
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: or resentment or hatred, and you give back love and openness,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: freedom and compassion and compassion.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: My guest is Gilbert Maine. We're talking about his book
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Seven Steps to Freedom, a systematic guide to what everyone wants. Gilbert,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: please share with our listeners where they can get your
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: books and find out more about you and your work.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Well. I have a website Gilbert Maine Gilbert m A
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and e dot com and on it is access to
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: all my writing. I've written this book Seven Steps Practical
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Wisdom and Freedom and I've also written three novels which
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: are those who like them love them. There are their
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: thrillers and with a slight paranormal. There are a few
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: easter eggs in it for people who know what to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: look for in relation to self awareness. But I was
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: very conscious that you don't want to rut attract, you know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: they just meant to be fun. You meant to get
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: on an airplane in Sydney with one of my books,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: and you meant to finish up by the time you
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: reach New York or London, and you can give it
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: to your best friend.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Wonderful. And I assume all your books are available also
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: on Amazon.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Wonderful. We'll be back with more of Gilbert after these
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: words on the own Times Radio network.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: The cutting edge of Conscious Radio Home Times Radio IOMFM.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Ome Times Magazine is one of the leading online content
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: providers of positivity, wellness and personal empowerment. A philanthropic organization,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: their net proceeds are final to support worldwide charity initiatives
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to creating community
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: and providing conscious content, they aspire to uplift humanity on
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: a global scale. Home Times co creating a more conscious lifestyle.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Back on Box Novus, my guest this week is Gilbert
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Main talking about his book Seven Steps to Freedom, A
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: systematic guide to what Everyone Wants. Gilbert, the next subheading
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: in your first chapter is our inner world? What takes
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: place there and why? May this be a part of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the problem.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, Well, the limiting beliefs that we have are one
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: of the main problems that we have. And isn't it
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: is in the inner world? The limiting factors in our life. Well,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: obviously we can have physical constructions, financial constrictions, of course,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: but a lot of these are very much based on
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: our belief system. Now, the matrix with which we see
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the world is how in fact we create our own world.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So take a take a simple one. Let's say you
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: have the belief I am a failure, and you may
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: not even know you have that belief. It may be subconscious,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: and by definition subconscious means it's below the level of
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: your consciousness. You are not in fact conscious of it.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: But it's there. How it got there, Why it's there,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: That's another that's a story for people. Must be to
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: a certain extent a little bit above my pay grade,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: but there it is. There's an idea, Oh, I'm not worthy,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: or I don't deserve success or something. These are negative,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: these negative sentences that run in the mind. The ego
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: does this to us. Well, it's very difficult to succeed
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: if you've got the idea that I am a failure.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: You just have to and it becomes much much harder.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: You can succeed, but it's incredibly hard work because you're
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: working against yourself at the same time. So this in
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the world does need addressing, and you need techniques and
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: systems and effective systems for somehow getting in there, getting
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: down there, or sending down messages that counter or dissolve
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the negative ones. And the good news is that such
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: techniques are readily available. The wise and I use that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: term to mean great master teachers of mankind throughout the ages,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: and we know who they are, the Buddha, Jesus, the
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Krishna who punishads, the Bible, all of these works. It's
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: so readily available these days. It's one of these miracles
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: that no one seems to see as miraculous that up
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: until very recently, very recently in history, there was people
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: had no access to these works at all. And now
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: they're available at the click of a mouse or on
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: your you can carry them around in your pocket on
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: your iPhone. It's astonishing. There's too much information almost, it's
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: there's so much about you don't even know where to start.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But you use systems of meditation, of mindfulness, of focus,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of being in the present, being in the now this
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and you let contciousness do the work for you. In
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: a sense. This is where the seven steps to freedom
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: are kind of wonderful. Really, there's only two that you
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: really have to worry about, which is step one and two,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and then all the rest get taken care for you
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: if you stick at it. But what that means is
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: that consciousness itself takes the journey and into your inner
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: heart of your being and begins to tidy up all
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: of these negative self talk that we have going on
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: that we're often not even aware of.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: You had mentioned all of the great works in all
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: of the faiths and religions and belief systems around the world.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: When I was in the Interfaith Seminary in the nineteen nineties,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I learned that there is an iteration of the Golden
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: rule in virtually every faith around the world. Do unto
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: others as you'd have them doing to you love thy
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: neighbor as thyself. If everybody did that, what a world
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: this would be.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like physics. It just you know, rocks.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: If you let a rock go in India and in
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Colombia and in Sydney, it's still going to fall down.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: The laws of physics don't change because you're somewhere else.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It's it's just the way it is. And one of
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: these laws of human human being human is something like
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the golden rule that you the more you give, the
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: more you get. It's a funny thing. One of the
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: things in the school of practical philosophy they used to
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: say is give what you lack. Give what you think
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: you lack. And you think, oh, yeah, that sounds nice.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: But then you really think about and you think, oh
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: that's crazy because you can't give it, you lack it,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: you don't have it. How can you give what you lack?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: But they said, well do it anyway, just you know,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: don't think, don't overthink this one. But if you lack love,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you lack friendship, say, for example, you want more friends,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: well be friendly. That's not hard.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: You you think you lack money, well find someone who
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: needs it, needs a few dollars and hand it out.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Be you know, give what you lack, give what you
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: think you lack, and it's it's another version of the
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: do unto you as you would have it. Have it
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: be down unto you. One of the formulations of this
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: in the tatorial or punished is learn and teach. You
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: you learn something and then you go out and you
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: teach it. In other words, you receive some wisdom and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: you immediately go out and you find someone who needs
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: a little wisdom in their life, and you spread.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: It around absolutely. And after our inner world comes the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: state of the world, and with the lack and the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: discussion we just had, it's not in the greatest of states,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: is it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: No.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I mean it's look, to be honest with you, it's
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: actually a lot better than it people think it is.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: You know, you just take you know, I mean, you
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: can be very very cold about this, but it's true.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Child poverty statistics show that fewer children go a bit
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: hungry in absolute terms, not just in relative terms, than
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: they did. You know one hundred years ago, you'd take
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: in Australian context, for example, our Native people, the Aboriginal
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: people in their health. There is a disparity which needs
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: addressing and injustices that need overcoming, for sure. But if
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: you compare the way everybody lived one hundred years ago
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: to now or one hundred and fifty years ago, we're
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: limitlessly better off. And even though there are obviously wars
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: going on, there are much fewer than there used to be.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I mean that, I think people are going to look
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: back on the twentieth century and wonder how anybody survived. Right,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: It's the Depression, World War One, World War two, the Holocaust,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: the Communists, the Gulags. You know, twentieth century a very
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: very The headline, the headline of the twentyth items of
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: the twentieth century are very bad. But underneath, people were
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: toiling away looking for truth, looking for wisdom, looking for
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: looking for a way out, looking for freedom. They're believing
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: there must be another way. And so the world is
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: in a parlors state in many ways, and the way
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: to overcome it is to overcome it in yourself. I
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: mean it doesn't mean you don't join causes or political
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: arties if that's your thing, for sure, but at the
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: same time, you can't overcome hatred with hatred. You don't
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: put out a fire with petrol.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and this leads to the next subheading, questions. I
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: remember two songs that touched my life in this regard
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: question by Justin Heyward of the Moody Blues and Question
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: by Manfred Man's Band. I remember the Moody Blues question.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: When I first heard it, I was seventeen. It came
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: out in nineteen seventy, and when I heard it, I
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: started crying and it sort of became a personal anthem
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: to me. And the last stanza says, if we could
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: see what if you could see what it's done to
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: me to lose the love I knew, could safely lead
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: me to the land that I once knew to learn
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: as we grow old, the secrets of our soul. And
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: then the Manford Man lyrics as written by Chris Slade,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: turning the key. I sat and spoke to those inside
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: of me. They answered my questions with questions, and they
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: set me to stand on the brink where the sun
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and the moon were as brothers, and all that was
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: left was to think. They answered my questions with questions,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: and they pointed me into the night, and the power
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that bore me had left me alone to figure out
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: which way was right. What are the questions that arise
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: as we contemplate all of the issues that you bring
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: to us.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two very very fundamental questions, which is the
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: first one is who am I? I mean, there's a
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: simple question, and I can take a lifetime to answer
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: that one. And another one is where am I? And
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: the third one is we talked about this before we began,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: which is the sense of the idea of purpose. Why
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: am I? Is the question why am I? Meaning? What
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: is my purpose? Why am I here? What am I
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: meant to be doing? And that's those are three. So
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: take those three questions who am I? Where am I?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: And what am I meant to be doing? And now,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you know, go off and have a nice life, you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: spend your time answering those questions. The part of the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: problem with the living now is that it's too much clutter,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: too much noise, too much interference, as it were with
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a radio channel, and people just don't have the time
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: and space to even know that those questions are important,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: or to know how to go about answering them and
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: to know why you should answer them. You ask some
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: people and they just think, well, why bother you? Might
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: you just get a job, you get a family, you
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: make sure your kids are okay, and you know, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: you finally, as I say, you struggle into your coughin
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: at the end and hope that something nice is put
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: on your headstone. Well, you know, okay, it didn't sound
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: very purposeful. So the question who am I? Is a
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: good one? You know. You start with that, you begin
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: to ask questions like am I my body? Because a
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people say, yeah, yeah, I'm basically my body
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and I am a bunch of physical processes. There's no
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: evidence for that, of course, but you know, you have
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: a if I said to you, think of your mother,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: and there's a picture of your mother in your mind,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: and some neuroscientists has little wires poking into your brain
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: and he says, oh, yes, some cortex somewhere, some lobe
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: somewhere else. He's been excited, and that's why you're thinking
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: of your mother. And you think there was zero evidence
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: for those two things being related in any way whatsoever,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: except they happened at the same time. So you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: it's not an answer. You know, you have and the
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: love of your mother. Well, you know, don't get me
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: started on that. Where does that come from?
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: So?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Who am I? Am I? My body? Am I? My thoughts?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Am I? My feelings? Am I this sense of self
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: that lives somewhere mysterious behind my eyes, when in my
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: chest region or whatever. That's a good question to begin
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: to consider. And then where am I? Well, hopefully in
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: the present moment, but usually not in my mind and
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: my heart go dancing off doing a polka around the
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: universe and thinking resentfully or nostalgically about the past or
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: anxiously or hopefully about the future, and very very rarely
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: sitting in the present moment. And then the third question,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: what's my purpose? Why am I here? Well, it's you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: that's that's again an incredibly fruitful line of inquiry. Of course,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: you're here to make sure you're healthy and happy and
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: you know, fit and ready and educated, et cetera. But
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: what about the others in your life? What about your spouse,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: your partner, your children, your family, your friends, your nation,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: your religion, whatever. There's purposes come at every level.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: And all of these hint at what you call the solution.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: M M.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that's the that's in a way, the easy one.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: The solution to this is to find a teacher, basically,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: to find a path, to find someone who can answer
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: those questions, who am I where? And what's my purpose?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And how can I? How can I? How should I live?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: What should I do? So the solution to all of
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: this is to find someone who can set you on
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: the set you on the path to answers for satisfactory
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: answers that lead to freedom and happiness and fulfillment. And
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: it's not just your freedom, happiness and fulfillment. This is
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons I'm so passionate about it was
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: because I started on this path because I wanted to
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: know what was going on. Basically, I'm a kind of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: a thinky kind of guy, and I wanted to know
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: how do how does everything work? And it frustrated me
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: that I didn't know. And I had this really abiding
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: sense that there were people out there who did know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and I just couldn't find them. I didn't know where
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: they were. And then when I finally did come across them,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I was very happy. It was it was kind of
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: an existential sort of bliss. I wanted to sort of
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: hug myself to you know, and congratulate myself. But then
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: what I began to notice was people around me began
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: to notice changes, and then people around me began to change.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: It was it was interesting to see this, the practical effect,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the radiating It wasn't me. I'm not such, you know,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not this saintly fellow walking around touching everyone with
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: my goodness. It was just the simple fact of going
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: free of darkness began to shed light.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: What was the original source of the seven steps?
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Well, that comes from a an Indian holy book book
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: of wisdom called the Yoga Vasishta, and in it, the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: prince rama Is his teachers are Vasishta. He's a sage,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: and he asks vasishtr He says, well, what are the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: what are the ways to freedom? What's the way to
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: self knowledge? To freedom to self awareness? And vasis basically well,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: he doesn't say it quite like this, but it feels
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: like he's saying, well, look, that's an easy one. These
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: are there are seven steps, and these are the seven steps.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: He lays them out, one after the other.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: And in addition to that tradition, there's an iteration of
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: these steps found in many spiritual traditions. Please share a couple.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Well, the one I put in my book is in
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the Bible of the famous seven Days of Creation, which
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I found astonishing. Really, I was just meditating one night
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: in my philosophy group. I was in the middle of
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: writing the book. And you'll be shocked to hear this, Victor,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I know, but I was. My mind was not totally
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: focused on the mantra. I hope you were sitting down
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: for that one. As I say to people when they
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: want to take up meditation, I said, look, meditation is great.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: It's only the first thirty years that are the hardest.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm meditating and my mind has drifted off to
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: what I'm really thinking about, which is my book. And
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: because the creative process is very powerful, it's a very
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: vibrant thing, and you've got to you've got to honor it.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I'm meditating, and I've got the seven steps
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: in my mind. The first step is not to give
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: the game away. The first step is the aha moment.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: The wise man comes to you, someone who knows something
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: and says, look, they make a suggestion about your life.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: They say, look, you should probably take a few minutes
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: out every day, just to be still peaceful at present.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Why don't you do that? Why don't you sit down
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: in a chair. Make sure no one's going to interrupt you,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: turn off your phone, make sure the kids are fine,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and everything's not going to know. You've got space, and
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: you sit down for a minute and you connect with
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: your physical body, which is always in the present moment,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: your touch, your smell, taste, site, let the mind settle.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: The mind will downs about a bit and maybe a lot,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: but it'll settle, But well it at least give it
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a go and do that twice a day, maybe three
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: times if you're really keen for a minute or two,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: no more, and you go, yeah, I need a bit
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: of space in my life. I think I'll try that.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You've done step one. Haven't actually sat down the chair.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: You've just heard something good and you've said, uh huh,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: that sounds good. Little light's gone on inside you.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: My guest is Gilbert Maine. His book is entitled Seven
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Steps to Freedom, A Systematic Guide to what Everyone wants.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with more after these words on the
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Own Times Radio network.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: Since two thousand and seven, HHI has been working tirelessly
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: to bring help to communities with little or no Oh.
• 44:47
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• 44:55
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• 44:59
  Speaker 4: Healing Dot or Humanity Healing is Where your Heart Is.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Back on Vox Novus, My guest this week is Gilbert Maine.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: We're discussing his book Seven Steps to Freedom, a systematic
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: guide to what everyone wants. Gilbert, what are some of
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the pitfalls that we encounter as we begin to practice
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: the seven Steps?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Oh. One of the main ones is forgetfulness. We just
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: forget to do it. There's too much going on in
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: our lives. Another one is habits. There's the pool of
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: habit is very strong. It's much stronger than we think
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: because we're normally going with it. As soon as we
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: start to try and go against it, the habits will
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: basically go to the cupboard and get out the baseball
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: bat and start beating us over the head with it.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: We need to be gentle with ourselves and work on them.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: And another one is to a certain extent you are
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: going against that's the way the world expects you to
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: go other people's expectations. I don't really talk about this
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: a lot in my book, but it is true that
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: if you're going to start being someone other than who
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: you are, the people around you also have their habits,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: and part of those habits are their expectations of you.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And again, you don't want to make another problem out
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: of this. It's just what it is. You have to
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: work with it.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you to share a little bit
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: about each of the steps in our remaining time. You
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: had started with the first step, which you call good impulse.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Just give our listeners a remembrance of that.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the aha moment. Someone says something to you
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: that makes sense about how your life can be better
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: and you go, yeah, that sounds good. I might try that,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: And that's it. You've done step one.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: That's the good impulse. The second step is true inquiry.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because now you need to find out what it
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: is that they are actually saying. And true inquiry means
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: they've said it, you've understood it with your head. Now
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: you have to understand it with your part and your being.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So in other words, you have to do it. Someone
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: says as I was saying in the previous segment, sit
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: down in a chair and become president and give your
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: attention to the present moment and allow your mind to
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: become still. And that sounds good, you know, that sounds
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: like a practical thing to do it, and takes a
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: minute or two every morning and maybe in the afternoon.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I could do that. I don't need any special equipment,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't cost me anything, and the payoff, according to this
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: wise person I've met, is that my mind will be
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: clearer and my life will be better. So now you
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: actually go and get a chair and sit in a
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: room and close the door and make sure you're not disturbed,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: and you give it a go. That's step two. You
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: put it into practice, and.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: The third step is refinement of the mind.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Please explain, well, this is what we've been talking about.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: These habits, these intonations, these self limiting beliefs you have,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: they're all held in what in the larger sense of
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: the mind, the mind heart nexus. There's an emotional kicker
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: to most of them. And by coming into the present moment,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: say and giving your attention, maybe meditating, maybe practicing some
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: mindfulness and yoga. What if you stick at it and
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: you do need to stick out. It does take a
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: little time, but not a lot of time, but some
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: and to a certain extent, depends on you. It's input
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and output. You will find that the mind begins to clear.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: You'll just have more space, there will be more awareness,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: you will be you'll be effectively more awake. And that
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: is what the wires call tunnel manas are is the
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: name for this level, and that is the thinning of
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the mind, and it means the mind becomes clear. So
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: when thinning, it's like the fog begins to clear out.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: And the fourth step is a state of clarity.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this is a big step between three and four.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I explain why in my book most people, certainly I did,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm not sure about you, Victor on your spiritual path,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: but you circle through steps one, two and three over
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and over and over again because there's a lot to learn.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: And you know, sitting down the chair and practicing mindfulness, okay,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: that's one thing. And what about a system of mantra meditation,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: that's another one. What about charitable giving and looking at
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: other people as if they were your family rather than
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: as an enemy. That's a good practice, and there's a
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: lot to be getting on with and a lot of
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it is all of it. It really is lovely and
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: very nourishing, and you circle through one, two, and three,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: and the mind is clearer and clearer, and you're more
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: and more awake. Things are becoming falling into line with you.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Things don't come quite as surprisingly and negatively as they
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: did in the past. You can handle them, you're stronger.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And then but you still need help, you still need guidance,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: You still fail, you still make mistakes, you still forget,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: and you still need to work. You need to put
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: in some oomph. And then at a certain point you
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: and you can't really time this, and you're not doing
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: it yourself. It just happens you sort of. It's almost
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: like emerging from a jungle, from a forest into a clearing,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and now you're not you don't need the machete to
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: cut your way through anymore. You're suddenly in this space
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: where there's a platform below which it's difficult to fall.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: That's how I've described and how I experienced myself, where
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: you just ask someone else you're you're different, your habits
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: are different. Now some of those negative beliefs have really gone,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: and you're no longer worried by them. You in fact,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: in a funny way, you almost forget that you ever
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: had them. It's strange phenomenon about level four is that
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: you are now. You are obviously who you are, but
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: in very fundamental ways, you're someone else.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And the fifth step is insight and detachment.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now, when we get to the top levels, these
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: are these are the ones that people experience when they're
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: ten years old sitting on a bus stop waiting to
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: go to school and they look at a tree, and
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: when their first child's born, when they hear a snatch
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: of music that inspires them. When I don't know something
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: in nature or just something who knows it can be anything.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: These are the top experiences, and they come and go.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: They're sort of like Christmas presents. You know, you don't
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: know surprise, secret stand to Christmas presents. You know where
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: they've come from, I don't know who gave them to you,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: and when they go, when they're snatched away, so you
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: don't know how to get back to them. But asang
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Sakti is the fifth level, it's detachment. It's you. You
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: detach in a good way in that things don't affect you,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: but there's full of you're full of love for everything.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: And the sixth step is non awareness of separate objects.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is where you just don't see differences.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Everyone's every person is part of your family. Everywhere you
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: are is where is your home. Every thought that comes
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: through your mind, even the negative ones, they're just consciousness.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Everything is in this. You don't see apples and pears.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: You see fruit, for example. You don't see different people.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: You just see brothers and sisters. It's like it's it's
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: a wonderful way to live where you know you will
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: pick up I mean it's I mean see, it's a
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: very practical thing, like you're in a I was on
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: a on an aeroplane once and there was a young
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: with a baby on her lap, flying in those days
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: when you could do that, and the baby was, you know,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: doing what babies do, and she was apologizing to me.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: I said, oh god, I said, please don't add me
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: to your list of problems. He said, add me to
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: your list of solutions. I'm here for you. You know,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I'm part of team you. You're a young mother. You've
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: got enough to worry about. You know that you you
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: don't want you know, we don't know each other. So
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not your enemy, and we just had a lovely time.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: You know. I picked up this, you know thing, toys
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: that have fell on the floor and all that sort
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: of thing. And then and then the thing is, at
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: the end of the journey, we didn't need to swap
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: telephone numbers. I don't know, never knew her name, and
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I'll probably never meet her again. But it's the natural
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: human response at level six is to happily join in
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: with whatever needs to be done, because everyone is part
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: of your, part of you.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: There are words in part of Africa and the word
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: is Ubuntu and the translation is I am because we are.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: The seventh step is the full realization of unity.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is why when people can get very funny
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: about this one, because it is obviously the highest plane
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: of limitless unity. But at the same time, most people
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: have experiences of this. This is what I say the
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: if you talk to people, people normally don't talk about
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: these experiences, but if you open the conversation, most people
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I talked to say, oh, yes, when I was six,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: I was on a swing and my mother gave me
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: a push and I suddenly felt limitlessly at one with everything.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: And that is to really are. It's not even this
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: in a way, it's paradoxical. It's not a state, it's
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: not a step. You're always there. I can't actually remember
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: the wording of the poem, but it's the one where
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: ts Eliot says, you take the journey, and when you
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: get to the end, you realize you've at the beginning
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: and you've never left. It's that sort of place because
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: in the end, you just are who you are, and
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: you've never actually been someone else. He're always you. But
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: it's that turia. You just simply know that to be
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: a fact.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: You live it. My guest, Gilbert May and his book
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Seven Steps to Freedom, a systematic guide to what everyone wants. Gilbert,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: please one more time share with our listeners where they
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: can get your books and find out more about you.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Sure. My website is Gilbert Main one word Gilbert M
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: A and e dot com and on it is all
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: my writings. I have Seven Steps, obviously, my book on
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: practical wisdom, and three exciting, thrilling novels that will make
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: your life just a little bit better for reading them
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: and make my life a lot better for buying them.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Gilbert, thank you so much for joining us and sharing
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: your wisdom. Thank you, Victim, and thank you for joining
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: us on Vox Novus. I'm Victor la Voice Furman. Have
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: a wonderful week.