Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #181 Kids Asking For Expensive Gifts

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#181 Kids Asking For Expensive Gifts · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:02
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:06
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 2: Now, when we are materialistic as parents, that is when
0:12
Speaker 2: we use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love
0:15
Speaker 2: you so much, and here's what I'm giving you because
0:17
Speaker 2: of it that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.
0:21
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:24
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:25
Speaker 2: Ho ho ho mery crip, you don't you're looking at
0:29
Speaker 2: me like there's a mom?
0:30
Speaker 3: Is that the best? Ho ho ho You've got?
0:32
Speaker 1: Well?
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Speaker 4: No, but I don't want to be all silly about
0:34
Speaker 4: it and go will Santa. I've just come on.
0:36
Speaker 2: This is doctor Justin Colson doing a terrible sata. Obviously,
0:39
Speaker 2: missus Happy Families has not been impressed. I'm the author
0:41
Speaker 2: of six books about raising happy families. My wife and
0:43
Speaker 2: co host The mom Do Our six Daughters. Hey, we
0:46
Speaker 2: get awesome feedback from you via the Apple podcast app,
0:49
Speaker 2: where people leave ratings and reviews, but also via podcasts
0:52
Speaker 2: at happy families dot com. Today you and doctor Andrew
0:55
Speaker 2: Hatch from Canada has sent us a voice memo. How
0:58
Speaker 2: awesome is this feedback?
1:00
Speaker 5: My wife and I started listening to your podcast about
1:03
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1:07
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1:10
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1:13
Speaker 5: close to fifteen sixteen years of post secondary education in
1:17
Speaker 5: childhood education, behavioral neuroscience. I'm a practicing clinician, and we
1:26
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1:30
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1:33
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1:49
Speaker 2: We are so grateful for that feedback. Thank you Andrew
1:52
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1:54
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2:08
Speaker 4: You can also just jump onto Apple podcasts and.
2:11
Speaker 2: Leave a rating and review, because when you do that,
2:13
Speaker 2: other people get to find out about the show. Now
2:15
Speaker 2: today's topic. I'm really excited about this. We received some
2:19
Speaker 2: feedback from somebody again via podcast at happy families dot
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Speaker 2: com dot you.
2:23
Speaker 4: What was their question?
2:24
Speaker 3: They mentioned that their children are obsessed with expensive presence
2:28
Speaker 3: that they can't afford as a family. They want to
2:31
Speaker 3: know how they can avoid disappointing their children on Christmas morning.
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Speaker 2: So this kind of taps into there's a few different
2:37
Speaker 2: ways that we can approach this, but I want to
2:39
Speaker 2: talk specifically about the issue of materialism, because whether you're
2:43
Speaker 2: rich or poor, whether you've got finances or you know,
2:47
Speaker 2: and your flush or you're completely out, the children do
2:51
Speaker 2: have expectations at Christmas. But there's some really cool science
2:56
Speaker 2: that's only been published just in the last couple of
2:58
Speaker 2: years that really div allops this idea of materialism and
3:01
Speaker 2: where it comes from.
3:03
Speaker 4: Can I share it with you? I want to geek out.
3:04
Speaker 3: You're going to geek Oh, okay, all right.
3:06
Speaker 4: This is Kylie.
3:07
Speaker 2: Whenever meever I start talking about science, guys like, oh
3:11
Speaker 2: my goodness, can we just be real?
3:13
Speaker 4: This is really real.
3:14
Speaker 2: So these scientists are published in the Journal of Consumer Research.
3:19
Speaker 2: They expanded on some some like decades of really cool research,
3:23
Speaker 2: and here's what they found. Children who receive material rewards
3:28
Speaker 2: from their parents are more likely to be materialistic because
3:32
Speaker 2: they see material goodies as a signal that they are
3:37
Speaker 2: valuable people, that they are worthy. So the material possessions
3:41
Speaker 2: basically say, you know, I'm enhancing myself. It defines who
3:46
Speaker 2: I am. In other words, when we are materialistic as parents,
3:52
Speaker 2: that is when we use materialistic gifts to say, you know,
3:55
Speaker 2: I love you so much and here's what I'm giving
3:57
Speaker 2: you because of it. That that actually in enhances and
4:00
Speaker 2: builds materialism in our kids. They feel like they need
4:04
Speaker 2: material things to demonstrate that they're of worth.
4:08
Speaker 3: So that whole extrinsic motivation or extrinsic recognition, yeah, helps
4:18
Speaker 3: them to feel it worth.
4:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I've got things that are fancy, When I've
4:22
Speaker 2: got you know, the latest phone or the latest do dad,
4:24
Speaker 2: the latest gives mode that all the kids at school
4:26
Speaker 2: are talking about, then I've got status and I'm of worth.
4:31
Speaker 2: There's that extrinsic focus, and that's the materialistic pathway. And
4:36
Speaker 2: what happens there is that I mean, society as a
4:38
Speaker 2: whole certainly perpetuates and fosters that the school yard, without
4:41
Speaker 2: question can do that, but it actually starts in the home,
4:44
Speaker 2: and this research highlights that.
4:46
Speaker 4: There's also another really interesting.
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Speaker 2: Thing that they the research has found, and that is
4:50
Speaker 2: that when parents are rejecting of their kids, you know,
4:54
Speaker 2: when parents are not warm towards their children, then the
4:57
Speaker 2: kids just gravitate to those external materials, realistic symbols, as
5:01
Speaker 2: a signal that I'm good enough.
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Speaker 4: Yep, And so I reckon.
5:06
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not suggesting that this is the case for
5:08
Speaker 2: the person who emailed us. I'm sure that they're living
5:11
Speaker 2: in a beautiful home and looking after their family the
5:14
Speaker 2: best that they can. But it's so critically important that
5:17
Speaker 2: we don't foster insecurity in our children by making material rewards,
5:23
Speaker 2: material gifts some sort of a symbol of how worthy
5:27
Speaker 2: they are. We actually need to create the connection and
5:30
Speaker 2: the relationship as the symbol, not the materialism.
5:33
Speaker 4: So that's my science geek out.
5:35
Speaker 3: Well, I think it works really well into I guess
5:38
Speaker 3: where I'd like to take our conversation. I know how
5:40
Speaker 3: much you love to geek out with all of the science,
5:44
Speaker 3: and as I was listening to I think the thing
5:47
Speaker 3: that just really stands out to me is it's really
5:50
Speaker 3: about changing the focus of what we do at Christmas
5:53
Speaker 3: time with our children.
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Speaker 2: Well not just at Christmas time, but right throughout the year,
5:56
Speaker 2: but certainly at Christmas.
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Speaker 4: You know the whole thing.
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Speaker 2: You know, sand is only going to give you a
6:00
Speaker 2: gift if you've been nice, not naughty. That's an extrinsic
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Speaker 2: marker of your value to Santa or to me as
6:09
Speaker 2: a person.
6:10
Speaker 4: And I reckon, there's a really big problem with this.
6:13
Speaker 2: This extrinsic reward actually promotes a materialistic approach to life.
6:18
Speaker 3: I have actually never thought about it like that. Obviously,
6:22
Speaker 3: We've had lots of discussions around Santa in our home,
6:26
Speaker 3: and you know, kind of what part he's going to
6:28
Speaker 3: play in our Christmas as a family, But I've never
6:32
Speaker 3: actually thought about that extrinsic recognition.
6:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, bit mind blown, right, But you'll I don't know
6:40
Speaker 2: if I've ever even been explicit with you about it,
6:42
Speaker 2: But in our home, we don't do a lot when
6:43
Speaker 2: it comes to giving the kids big gifts and making
6:47
Speaker 2: a big deal about materialistic stuff. We just don't do that.
6:50
Speaker 2: And I've always just had it in my mind. Maybe
6:53
Speaker 2: I've never even told you. The more we do that,
6:55
Speaker 2: the more kids actually feel that they're a value when
6:56
Speaker 2: they're getting that stuff, but when they're not getting that stuff,
6:58
Speaker 2: they start to question their value.
7:00
Speaker 4: Whereas our approach is very different.
7:02
Speaker 2: We actually try to minimize a focus on anything materialistic
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Speaker 2: or extrinsic without being all austere and making our kids
7:08
Speaker 2: feel impoverished. I mean, we still live I think, a
7:11
Speaker 2: really nice life with our family, but it's not about
7:14
Speaker 2: the stuff. Stuff doesn't make you happy. It's about the connection.
7:18
Speaker 3: And I love that focus love. I love that we
7:21
Speaker 3: yet to spend time with our children in really meaningful
7:23
Speaker 3: ways as a result.
7:24
Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to share five ways,
7:27
Speaker 2: regardless of your financial position, five ways that you can
7:29
Speaker 2: help your kids to move away from materialism and have
7:33
Speaker 2: those high expectations from Santa at Christmas. It's the Happy
7:37
Speaker 2: Families Podcast.
7:39
Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
7:42
Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts
7:44
Speaker 6: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
7:47
Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies
7:51
Speaker 6: dot com dot au slash shop.
7:54
Speaker 3: It's a Happy Families podcast. The podcast for the time
7:56
Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and we have
7:59
Speaker 3: been to talking today about how we can help our
8:02
Speaker 3: children to.
8:04
Speaker 4: Not be so materialistic.
8:06
Speaker 2: And the reality is they're going to be right, Like,
8:08
Speaker 2: if all their friends are getting this really cool thing,
8:09
Speaker 2: they're probably going to want it. And sometimes I think
8:13
Speaker 2: it's okay to get it for them, Like sometimes that's fine.
8:16
Speaker 2: I don't want this podcast to sound like we're all like,
8:18
Speaker 2: you know, don't let the kids have cool stuff, because
8:20
Speaker 2: that's not it at all. If you're in a position
8:22
Speaker 2: to do it and you want to spoil them every
8:23
Speaker 2: now and again, go for your life, fill your boots,
8:26
Speaker 2: have fun with that. But it's not always going to
8:30
Speaker 2: make them happy and they're not always going to remember it.
8:34
Speaker 2: So definitely it's fun to have fun with gift giving.
8:38
Speaker 2: But over the last I mean, we've been married for
8:40
Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three years, and I reckon over
8:44
Speaker 2: that time period, probably twenty of those years, we have
8:47
Speaker 2: been so tight financially and we've been thinking how in
8:51
Speaker 2: the world we're going to get through Christmas. And so
8:53
Speaker 2: I want to talk about five different ways that we
8:54
Speaker 2: can remove the focus of materialism from our kids so
8:59
Speaker 2: that they can have a dud for Christmas without being
9:01
Speaker 2: so obsessed with getting the expensive gifts.
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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the first things is just
9:07
Speaker 3: not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I know,
9:09
Speaker 3: I was a Jones.
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Speaker 4: Your name is Jones, Kylie Jones. I try to keep
9:13
Speaker 4: up with the Joneses. There wasn't much to keep up with.
9:17
Speaker 3: But I think that's really important that you know, whatever
9:20
Speaker 3: your focus is at Christmas, it's about your family, not
9:23
Speaker 3: what you know the next door neighbors are doing or
9:25
Speaker 3: what the family down the street's doing.
9:26
Speaker 4: And we've even said that to our kids. You know,
9:28
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, but so and so I've got such
9:29
Speaker 4: and such, an we.
9:30
Speaker 2: See, I know and their family can afford that this year,
9:32
Speaker 2: but our family is not in a position to do that.
9:34
Speaker 2: So we're going to be grateful for what we've got
9:36
Speaker 2: and we're going to shift the focus. But not trying
9:39
Speaker 2: to keep up is a critical way to do that.
9:43
Speaker 3: And so one year, one of the things that we did,
9:45
Speaker 3: actually one of my favorite Christmases that we've had with
9:47
Speaker 3: our children is we decided that we were going to
9:50
Speaker 3: have a homemade Christmas. I was right into my crafting
9:53
Speaker 3: back then and love just spending time you know working
9:57
Speaker 3: with my hands, and I thought it would be really
9:59
Speaker 3: nice to start to inspire the children's creativity firstly, but
10:03
Speaker 3: secondly teach them skills.
10:04
Speaker 2: And thirdly, we were broke, well we broke, we had
10:07
Speaker 2: no money, so homemade Christmas was basically we made stuff
10:12
Speaker 2: for each other.
10:12
Speaker 3: Yes, so they got one on one time with me
10:14
Speaker 3: because we sat down. We talked about the secret sister
10:17
Speaker 3: name that they pulled out of the hat and what
10:19
Speaker 3: they might like for Christmas. And one of my favorite gifts.
10:23
Speaker 3: I've actually just been going through some of the kids
10:25
Speaker 3: keepsakes and found it the other day. Ella, she was
10:28
Speaker 3: probably about maybe eight when we did this Christmas. She
10:34
Speaker 3: made up a poem that became a story. It was
10:37
Speaker 3: a little story about it's time to get up, It's
10:40
Speaker 3: time to get up, it's time to get up, it's
10:42
Speaker 3: time to get up for school today, or something like
10:44
Speaker 3: that was little rime that she made. And so she
10:46
Speaker 3: actually stepped her little sister.
10:48
Speaker 4: Who was starting school this is the next month.
10:50
Speaker 3: That's right, who was going to start school, stepped her
10:53
Speaker 3: through the routine of what she needed to do in
10:56
Speaker 3: the morning to get ready for school. And she then
10:59
Speaker 3: you to her little sister and took photos of the
11:03
Speaker 3: two of them doing those things like brushing her teeth.
11:06
Speaker 2: They got dressed up in their school uniforms and took
11:08
Speaker 2: the photos and put her all together as an album
11:10
Speaker 2: with the poem to guide her sister through the morning
11:14
Speaker 2: for when she started a big school.
11:15
Speaker 3: And it was such a beautiful gift. Like I said,
11:19
Speaker 3: I just pulled it out the other day and I
11:20
Speaker 3: couldn't help smiling because it was just it was such
11:23
Speaker 3: a simple thing, and yet it's something that they'll be
11:25
Speaker 3: able to look back on for years.
11:27
Speaker 2: So basically that Christmas, there was no materialism because we
11:29
Speaker 2: weren't spending any money. It was actually what I'm building
11:32
Speaker 2: for you, what I'm making for you, what I'm creating,
11:34
Speaker 2: and it was so good, like you said, relationally and creatively.
11:37
Speaker 2: So that's the first idea, Just don't try to keep
11:40
Speaker 2: up with people. Go your own way, do your own thing.
11:43
Speaker 2: Second thing, what I love about you, Kylie, is you
11:45
Speaker 2: love to shop. I do love to That's actually not
11:48
Speaker 2: what I love about you. But the reason you love
11:50
Speaker 2: to shop is because you're a savvy shopper, and so
11:52
Speaker 2: all year long, you know that at the end of
11:54
Speaker 2: the year, we're probably going to do, you know, something
11:56
Speaker 2: to wear, something to read, something they want, something they need,
11:58
Speaker 2: And so as the year on, you're actually looking out
12:01
Speaker 2: for opportunities to snag bargains, which means when we get
12:04
Speaker 2: to Christmas, we've already got most of the stuff that
12:06
Speaker 2: we need. We've paid peanuts for it because you've got
12:09
Speaker 2: it on special throughout the year. And that's our second
12:13
Speaker 2: idea for removing the materialism. Just let the kids know
12:15
Speaker 2: this is how we do Christmas.
12:17
Speaker 4: That's the way it's going to be.
12:20
Speaker 2: The third thing is a really simple one as well,
12:21
Speaker 2: and I don't think it requires a lot of time
12:23
Speaker 2: and focus. Just don't make it a big deal. Don't
12:26
Speaker 2: carry on about how much expensive stuff we're doing, or
12:29
Speaker 2: how we're doing this, or I paid this much for that,
12:30
Speaker 2: or this was the really big gift this year. I
12:33
Speaker 2: just don't make it a big deal. Sometimes kids get
12:36
Speaker 2: big stuff, sometimes they don't.
12:38
Speaker 3: And I guess that's what I love about what we
12:40
Speaker 3: do with the four gifts. You know, it's just there's
12:43
Speaker 3: no price tag attached to it. Everybody gets four gifts,
12:45
Speaker 3: and because it all fits into those different themes each
12:50
Speaker 3: the children are just happy with the four gifts. That
12:53
Speaker 3: they get. They're not comparing with the other person.
12:55
Speaker 4: What book did you get? Because of books and book
12:58
Speaker 4: you know, and clothing.
13:00
Speaker 3: Excited to get a few new outfits. So I really
13:03
Speaker 3: like the fact that, you know, because of the way
13:06
Speaker 3: we've set things up for our kids, it's not a
13:08
Speaker 3: big deal.
13:09
Speaker 2: So the last two ideas that we've got, let's go
13:11
Speaker 2: through these fairly briefly, but they are I think the
13:13
Speaker 2: two most important ones. I'm going to combine them. Number four,
13:18
Speaker 2: just change the focus. So in a couple of days
13:20
Speaker 2: we're doing a podcast about how we can change the focus.
13:23
Speaker 2: But I reckon, there's a couple of things that you
13:26
Speaker 2: were talking to me about before that are worth highlighting here.
13:29
Speaker 3: So two things that we've done which I have absolutely
13:31
Speaker 3: loved and have completely changed the way we did Christmas.
13:34
Speaker 3: That year, we went on our very first international family holiday.
13:39
Speaker 4: We've never been.
13:40
Speaker 3: On an international family holiday.
13:42
Speaker 2: It was like four years ago. And let me give
13:44
Speaker 2: you some context here, because this is important. We decided
13:47
Speaker 2: that we were going to take the family away for Christmas,
13:49
Speaker 2: but we also wanted it to be not just about
13:52
Speaker 2: the family and not just you know, indulgent, but we
13:55
Speaker 2: wanted it to be for a good cause, and so
13:57
Speaker 2: at a charity auction, I bought a holiday to Bali
14:01
Speaker 2: at that charity auction, which meant that the money that
14:03
Speaker 2: I was paying for the holiday was actually being donated
14:06
Speaker 2: to a charity rather than just paying for a holiday.
14:09
Speaker 2: It kind of it felt good to spend money on
14:11
Speaker 2: a holiday for us and know that we were helping people,
14:14
Speaker 2: so that that was a really cool thing.
14:15
Speaker 3: We probably wouldn't have had a holiday if it wasn't
14:17
Speaker 3: for the auction, because it's not money that we would
14:20
Speaker 3: have normally spent on ourselves like that, but because of
14:24
Speaker 3: the focus, it allowed us the opportunity to benefit as well,
14:28
Speaker 3: which was so much fun.
14:30
Speaker 2: A really quick story about that as well. When I
14:31
Speaker 2: was bidding, I was actually goofing off. I didn't really
14:33
Speaker 2: intend to buy the holiday, and somebody else put up
14:36
Speaker 2: their hand at the same time that I bid, and
14:38
Speaker 2: the auctioneer said, you've got it, and you've got it,
14:40
Speaker 2: and then he pointed someone else whose hand was going
14:41
Speaker 2: up and stand and you've got it too, and he
14:43
Speaker 2: sold all three of them.
14:44
Speaker 3: He did.
14:45
Speaker 2: There was only one on offer, but he actually said
14:47
Speaker 2: all three of you, and you've all paid that much
14:48
Speaker 2: money and I was like, oh no, because I didn't
14:50
Speaker 2: really mean to buy it, But anyway, we donated and
14:53
Speaker 2: we won.
14:54
Speaker 4: We won.
14:55
Speaker 2: We won a holiday at an auction that we paid
14:57
Speaker 2: for and we helped other people out, which was great.
15:00
Speaker 4: Well, what was awesome.
15:01
Speaker 3: About that was that it was a holiday for ten people.
15:05
Speaker 3: We only have eight people in our family.
15:07
Speaker 4: That we only have eight people, and.
15:09
Speaker 3: We got to take my mum and dad who'd never
15:10
Speaker 3: been overseas before, which was super super fun, and they
15:14
Speaker 3: got to experience things that they'd never experienced. But the
15:17
Speaker 3: thing that was actually super special about this was by
15:19
Speaker 3: the time we went to actually book the holiday, the
15:22
Speaker 3: only time we could do this was literally over Christmas
15:26
Speaker 3: Day and Boxing Day.
15:28
Speaker 2: So none of this was actually meant to happen like this,
15:30
Speaker 2: but it's just how it all worked out. So we
15:32
Speaker 2: were away for Christmas on this holiday that I didn't
15:34
Speaker 2: mean to buy, but it was for a charity and
15:36
Speaker 2: it was for a good cause, and it all worked
15:38
Speaker 2: out really nicely because of that.
15:39
Speaker 3: We didn't have presents that year. We literally that year
15:42
Speaker 3: was just about experiencing another place in the world together
15:46
Speaker 3: as a family, and our focus was just family time
15:50
Speaker 3: and it today is a highlight.
15:52
Speaker 2: So that changes the focus completely. And the other way
15:56
Speaker 2: to change the focus, and we'll talk about this, like
15:58
Speaker 2: I said in the podcast on Thursday, is just focus
16:00
Speaker 2: not on what you're going to get, but what you're
16:02
Speaker 2: going to give. Focus on giving to others, especially those
16:04
Speaker 2: who are not part of the family, Like look for
16:06
Speaker 2: ways that you can contribute in the community and do
16:08
Speaker 2: something there. I think that's the other way that we
16:10
Speaker 2: can really change the focus. More on that on Thursday.
16:13
Speaker 2: The final way to move away from materialism with the kids,
16:17
Speaker 2: I think.
16:17
Speaker 3: You have to be an example. It has to start
16:19
Speaker 3: with you.
16:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if you're all about the presence, and if
16:22
Speaker 2: you're all about what you get what you get, if
16:25
Speaker 2: you're all about filling up underneath the tree and making
16:28
Speaker 2: it a huge deal, then it's probably going to happen
16:31
Speaker 2: that the kids.
16:32
Speaker 4: Are going to follow your lead.
16:34
Speaker 2: In my webinar how to Unspoil the Kids for Christmas,
16:37
Speaker 2: I talked about how there are three levels to Christmas.
16:39
Speaker 2: The first one is the Santa clause Ho Ho ho,
16:41
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas. That's the too much food and too many presents.
16:44
Speaker 2: And you can have an awesome Christmas when you do that,
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Speaker 2: Like there's nothing the matter with Level one Christmas. Level
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Speaker 2: two Christmas is where you've got the Christmas carols and
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Speaker 2: you maybe put an activity scene up and you do
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Speaker 2: some of the stuff that a lot of people will say, well,
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Speaker 2: this is the true meaning of Christmas, and you focus
16:59
Speaker 2: on the the traditional Christmas things that we do. It's
17:03
Speaker 2: probably going a little bit deeper with you having some
17:05
Speaker 2: time with family and really focusing on family time.
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Speaker 4: And then there's the Level three Christmas.
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Speaker 2: Now, for those who've got a faith tradition, then that's
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Speaker 2: going to be a really heavy emphasis on faith.
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Speaker 4: But for those who don't.
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Speaker 2: You can still really go to a level three Christmas
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Speaker 2: by focusing on generosity and service and sacrifice and not
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Speaker 2: thinking about yourself but thinking about other people at a
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Speaker 2: time where there's a lot of really vulnerable people, people
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Speaker 2: who are really challenged, And I think that's what we're
17:31
Speaker 2: really talking about here, be an example by shifting the
17:34
Speaker 2: focus away from self towards others.
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Speaker 3: I love it makes me happy.
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Speaker 4: Well, I love talking about Christmas.
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Speaker 2: Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year, and
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Speaker 2: I love.
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Speaker 4: Being able to do it on the podcast.
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Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed the podcast, we would so very much
17:49
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking a minute or two, maybe over the
17:51
Speaker 2: Christmas break, when you've got a minute or two, jumping
17:54
Speaker 2: into Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating and review, letting
17:56
Speaker 2: people know how you're enjoying it and why it means
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Speaker 2: so much to us, and it helps other people to
18:01
Speaker 2: find the show and make their families happier. We appreciate
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Speaker 2: Justin Roulin from Bridge Media for producing the podcast, and
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Speaker 2: our executive producer as always is Craig Bruce. If you'd
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Speaker 2: like more info about making your family happy, you can
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Speaker 2: find it all at happyfamilies dot com dot au