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Leading as a Millennial During Uncertain Times with Jenna Shellman · Authentic Living

0:01
Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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I'm withTech Living with Roxanne.
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Thanks for tuning again this week with us today.
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I have a special guest, Jenna.
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Shalman.
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Hi, Jenna.
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How are you?
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Hi, Roxanne.
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I'm great.
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How are you?
0:48
Good.
0:48
Good.
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Just Jenna is located in Washington State, so we were We chatted a little while back, and
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we're just kinda catching up of how things have progressed, and then they have progressed, a
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fair amount, you know, where she is, and she's just kind of seeing where things are at with us
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here in Canada.
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So I'm gonna talk Jenna has a a specific subset or I shouldn't say sub it, but, specialty with
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millennials.
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So she's also millennial, which, you know, being a of a different generation, I think
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learning for someone like her about leadership is key.
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So let me tell you a little bit about her backgrounds and what we're gonna be talking
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about today.
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She's obviously passionate about millennials, and she thinks that the her generation her
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generation received the short end of the stick when it comes to managing student loan debts,
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billing financial stability, and even more so now in the time we're at and having the
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confidence travel down the road less traveled.
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The challenges that, they faced her system systematically brought about by the financial
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crisis in 2008, which we're all now into this new crisis, and inflated college tuitions and
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the constant need to to field validation.
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The boomer parents, raised us hoping that there would be more relative economic and financial
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stability so our generation could prosper more than they did.
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And that's so telling as we talk about this new I don't know what time we're gonna call it
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Jenna.
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Has any has anybody come up with a term yet about how we're gonna what we're gonna call
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this?
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It's just I don't know.
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The the corona pandemic, I guess.
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The Corbin pandemic.
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Yeah.
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I'm kind of I'm actually calling it the, it's almost like the, quote, unquote, like, silent
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war of our generation.
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Yeah.
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That that's a good point because it rated to some degree as an as a war that we have to
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collectively work together to fight because it's not it's not the known enemy, but it's
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really something that's there that it's really calling.
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I think from a really a global perspective that we really work in a unified way, to be able to
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figure this out because there's gonna be implications on all of us individually,
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collectively, as countries and as a world because after this is done, not only would
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there be economic implications, but of course, physical and psychological implications and the
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aftermath of any kind of, like, to your point, war, there's there's all the shrapnel that's
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left behind.
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Mhmm.
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And and I've talked to a lot of my friends too, and and we believe that everything that's going
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on right now is really going to change and reshape our society.
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As a as as a world and as the United States and as a a Western organization or a Western
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country.
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So tell me you know, you've been talking to people, and let's let's dive right into kinda
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your, you know, as a millennial and then and she has podcast, which we'll we'll get into a
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little bit more.
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How do you think as millennials, like you said, you know, you guys kinda got a bit of a deck
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that maybe in my time when I, kinda was in university and coming out, there was there was
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an abundance to to jobs.
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It kinda and, you know, when I graduated in the eighties, it was kinda get the degree, get the
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education, and you really can kinda guide your career.
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That, unfortunately, is not what's hap what's happened with millennials, in in this tide.
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So this economic shift is gonna do what now in this space to millennials.
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Have you had any conversations, like that with other millennials or leaders, in millennial,
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positions right now.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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I kinda wanna wanna go back and and and kinda share a little bit about, you know, what what
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you mentioned earlier about how millennials how I believe millennials kinda got the short end
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of the stick, and then that can kinda lead into this station.
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So Yeah.
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I mean, I I personally feel like me, my friends, my network of millennials, most of us
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graduated around the time of the recession, right, anywhere from a few years before to a
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few years after was typically our undergraduate, you know, time where we
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graduated.
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So I graduated in 2008.
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And, you know, I came into the recession.
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I came into a time where there weren't any jobs.
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My my thought process was, well, I'm gonna go back to school and get a master's degree, and
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that's what a lot of people in my network did because We were praised for getting bachelor's
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degrees.
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Right?
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We
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are validated for getting bachelor's degrees, and college was fun, and we like learning.
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So we decided to go back to school because there are no jobs.
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We might as well learn more.
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And then when the recessions over, I think a lot of us thought, great.
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We'll get a really high paying job, and everything will be fine.
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But something that, you know, didn't necessarily happen for a lot of us is that a
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lot of us weren't able to get one either a job after all of the happened or a good paying job.
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A lot of us came out of debt or came out of school with 1000 of dollars student loan debt.
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I was just shy of about 40,000, which I've learned from talking to someone in higher
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education who actually studies this, that that's actually low.
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And it or it absolutely is on average when you'd hear, especially, a lot of times in the
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US, institutions compared to ours because a lot of ours are here funded, but the average that I
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hear when somebody my, my niece actually did chiropractic, in the US, and I think it was
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upwards of $150,000 for by the time she was done.
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Yep.
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I just talked to, a colleague yesterday who's, over in, the the East Coast of the United
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States, and he said that when he left his undergraduate program, he was close to $400,000
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in debt.
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Student loan debt.
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And then when he married, his wife had about 200,000.
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So they assumed 600,000 dollars in student loan debt.
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That's the highest that I've
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heard.
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Wow.
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So I was lucky to only have, what, less than 40,000, but for me, that was just too much in
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general to to be in debt.
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Right?
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And then you also have to look at my retirement investments.
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I didn't really have any because I wasn't really taught about any of those things and the
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benefits of having investments and working with a planner really being smart with your smart
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with your money in terms of an investment standpoint.
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A lot of boomers went into a workforce that didn't really require a professional degree,
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right?
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There's only a certain percentage of boomers that have a professional degree, which great.
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The rest of them were able to get really great jobs that offered good pay.
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So for example, my dad He worked for Washington State Ferris for 46 years.
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46 years, by the way.
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Oh my god.
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And, you know, he he did well.
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He was paid well.
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You know, we lived a very normal middle class family.
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My mom barely had to work.
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You know, we had a nice house in the suburbs.
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We were able to do all these things as a kid off of his one salary.
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Now he's retired, and he has this insane pension.
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Right?
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Yep.
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And and when you compare, you know, those opportunities that a lot of boomers had, those
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same opportunities are not there for millennials.
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Now I understand Boomers have their own challenges.
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I understand that.
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But I think what there's a huge discrepancy between boomers and millennials is that I think
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a lot of boomers think that We are very into ourselves and that we don't work hard and that
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we complain a lot and that we're not responsible because we can't buy homes, and we
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can't settle down on all these things.
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But I feel like one of the reasons why maybe we're not able to achieve a lot of those things
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that Boomers were able to achieve was because we didn't have the exact same opportunities,
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and we were hit with a lot of hardships like the recession, like the fact that more people
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in our generation have bachelor's degrees than boomers do.
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Right?
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So that means a bachelor's degree is saturated.
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K.
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We have smart student loan debt and inflation has gone up so much where in in a lot of cities
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and wash in United States, such as Seattle, San Francisco, go LA, New York, it is so hard to
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buy a home, to own property.
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Right?
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You need to put down a hefty amount in order to, you know, be considered.
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And now we're at this pandemic.
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This coronavirus where A lot of millennials are in their thirties right now, right, 25 to let's
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just call it 38, 3940.
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Right?
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So a lot of them are in their thirties, and they're finally starting to get a abolished.
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Right?
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They're finally starting to, you know, be in that place where they're feeling good.
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And now a lot of them, a lot of us, everybody in general, we're getting laid off.
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Mhmm.
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Right?
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We can't pay our rent.
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We, you know, can't pay our credit cards.
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We can't pay our student loans So this pandemic is pushing our generation and the generation
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below us back even further.
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A scary thought, right?
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Like, I mean, I'm probably close to your parents age and, kinda looking at, you know,
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not retirement, but not too far off down the road.
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So different spot, but
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Mhmm.
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You know, and if you're just, it's kinda like you're coming up for air, which is kinda where
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the millennials are, and they're kinda, you know, getting situated.
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Okay.
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I'm paying maybe I've paid down a lot of the debt if they're, you know, if they've been
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lucky and they've kinda found a senior position, And and then two and a half weeks
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ago, the switch goes out.
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And, you know, and then, you know, the the world is trying to recalibrate.
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And I know you've had in in the US, like in Canada, there's a lot of stimulus packages, but
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the thing is what it's doing is it's truly, literally, you know, we're doing as much as we
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can to keep the economy afloat.
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However, it's like the economic crisis 2008, how long is it gonna take And, you know, with a
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lot of companies, kind of the the middle companies not being a I I think a lot of them
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won't survive.
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What's gonna happen to a what's our unemployment what your unemployment's gonna
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look like and what's our unemployment gonna look like and how long will it take?
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I've heard I've heard as much, and I don't know if you've heard this as much as 18 to 24 months
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before we're already kind of be able to to kinda realize any kind of growth happening
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again.
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Mhmm.
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Well, just the the numbers in the US have been staggering.
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So before before this pandemic, unemployment in the United States was just low in general.
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It was, like, 4 or 5% something like that as a whole across all different types of of special
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facilities.
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In Seattle, unemployment has been low for years since probably, like, 2015.
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With unemployment around, like, 3 to 4% depending on types of jobs.
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But now so many people are losing their jobs You know, they're estimating that unemployment
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could be like 20% in the United States pretty soon.
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I watched a news report that said that last week, there are 7,000,000 more Americans that
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applied for unemployment.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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You know?
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And so, yeah, I agree with you.
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I think that this pandemic right now is really gonna take a huge toll, and it could
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potentially take a longer toll than the 2008 crisis in a could take, you know, a year and a
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half to 2 years for people to really get back on their feet.
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Absolutely.
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And and then you'd have people, like, let's say you're a millennial and you're finding that
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entry level leadership position, and maybe you're, you know, you're kind of finding your
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your your grounding, and then you lose that.
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Hopefully, you can go back to that because but if you
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if you
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if you can't, then you're kinda out there with a whole other other educated millennials trying
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to find the same level of position.
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It it sounds dire.
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It it really does, but, you know, let's go back to that whole concept of, you know, I recently
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went to, a provincial or a federal, HR conference here in in Toronto.
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And they talked a little bit about, that the new generation you guys have become polymaths,
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which means that you learn everything or they even the generation coming up be be behind you,
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and it really becomes a space that, you know, kinda like talking to speaking about your dad
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or whatever myself.
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I've never done on a job for 46 years, but I've been in the workforce for over 30.
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And but I've never been without a job for very long.
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I generally could kinda move.
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I could move within my career as a psychotherapist and a consultant.
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I could kinda say, oh, I think I'll a bit and I'd move over there and kinda, you know, I
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would normally land as I was investigating, but those options seem to be lessened now.
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But the concept that the, researcher was talking about is that really we're in a world
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where gone are the days where they're thinking about 10000 hours in one small subset, of a
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career.
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It's now that the the new generation has to become a polymath in that that's where our new
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innovators are coming from because they have had to learn and adapt to so many things.
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Whereas before, like your dad, maybe he learned certain things.
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Mhmm.
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And
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he could just kinda stay there and be guaranteed, you know, a 46 year career.
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But that's not the case now.
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Would you agree with that?
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Yeah, I I definitely think that our our generation and the generation under us.
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I definitely think that we have to pivot quite a bit and really I think that we're set up for
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change a lot better than the the the older generations.
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I definitely think that's true.
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So when when we when you talk a little bit about leadership and really, you know, you
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know, my generation is gonna go off and the millennials are gonna be the new leaders.
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Right?
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And there's gonna be some boomers left behind.
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That the millennials are gonna be leading.
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So what, as a millennial, tell me, what makes it most difficult to work or to lead people
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that are not of your generation?
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What is it that they don't get?
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Because I I always get, right, right, that, you know, my generation, they kinda, you know,
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kicked us out at the at 21 and said, go out and live your life.
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And your generation, people held on more, to kind of the helicopter parenting, which you
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know, they they didn't let you go as much because I think my our generation was kinda
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holding on to say, oh my goodness.
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This happened to me, so I'm gonna make it a little bit easier in this generation, but I
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don't know, you know, kind of, how that did well for you or if it's kinda, I think there's
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positive as an So tell me your perspective about when you're working with gen different
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generations.
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What's that what are some of the positives that millennials and what are maybe potentially some
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of the negatives, that you get blamed for that sometimes maybe you think, oh, yeah.
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I can see that, or maybe that we can learn, as as other generations from you.
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Yeah.
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So previous, to me becoming a, you know, going on my own solo journey and becoming and a coach
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and starting the podcast.
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I was a teacher, and then I transitioned into business.
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So when I was in business, I was in corporate management and leadership.
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For a fortune 500 company.
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Fantastic opportunity.
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And, the one thing, the the few things that I learned from from that being a leader is that
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there are oftentimes discrepancies between what millennials need in a workplace versus what
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maybe a genxer or maybe a boomer is used to or needs.
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So I feel like there's so many millennials who are motivated by their purpose, and they're
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motivated by what the company's mission is.
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So Simon Siddick, who I'm sure you're very familiar with, is very passionate about this
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topic of why he has a fantastic set of books about finding your purpose, and he really tries
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to work with organizations to really hone in on their mission to attract millennials and to
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retain them.
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So I think that for everything that a lot of millennials have gone through through, we we
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went to college We came a lot of us came out with a lot of debt.
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Right?
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We were in a situation where entry level jobs are actually very competitive.
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Okay.
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We found out that, you know, a lot of the time when you look at your rent costs and your
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student loan costs and every other cost you have, you may be coming out even with the job
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that you have.
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Mhmm.
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Right?
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And so for us, I think that we are since we've kind of just accepted that that's how it is,
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It's a little bit more challenging for us to save.
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We got kinda screwed over with 2008.
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I think for us, when we go to work for somebody, we wanna know that one we're valued
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and 2, that this company has a mission.
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Mhmm.
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Okay.
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Like, I I know a paycheck definitely matters in the package and benefits.
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All those things matter, but I've talked to more people, people that I've brought on to my
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team and other people that I've just talked to in interviews.
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You know, I always ask, you know, what are what is your motivation from this job or what is
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your motivation career.
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And more people who are in a millennial era would say that they're motivated by something
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purposeful.
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They're motivated by having autonomy and flexibility in their day to be creative.
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They're motivated by the values of the company and how they're treated, and they're motivated
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by helping others, by starting a project and ending a project well.
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Okay?
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And I feel like, gen xers and boomers, while they definitely can believe those things.
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And have that mindset.
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When I think about my parents and and their friends, they were kind of told kinda like what
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you said, okay.
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You're 21.
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Go get a job, you know, for x amount of years.
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You better make that money.
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Try to climb the corporate ladder.
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You know, such and such and such.
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It's a grind.
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You'd go to work every day at 8 o'clock.
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You you're done at 5, you know, every single day.
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Right?
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You have 2 weeks of vacation every year.
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And I I admire people who can do that for a long period of time.
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Honestly, I do.
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I think it's absolutely incredible.
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I think that our generation, because of everything we've already been through.
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I think that we're just at the point where if we have to endure all bullshit that's already
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coming our way, we might as well work for someone or a company that gives us purpose and
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values us, we might as well do something that is meaningful and purposeful.
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Well, I think the creativity, if you think about all the research around creativity and
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innovation, it's really about having the individual connect internally to their why.
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Let's use Simon's, you know, what's what's your why And if that's the alignment that
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millennials actually have, truly, we're talking about what I talk about, which is authenticity
19:10
in leadership.
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So I talk a lot about, you know, awareness and, you know, what's the value?
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What's your value?
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What's your story?
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Why are you doing what you're doing?
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And all the things that make you who you are as a leader And how are you impacting others
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around you?
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So gone out of the days, you know, with the older generation where, you know, I remember my
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first job at 21, It was like, yes.
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I was in the field that I wanted to, but I was there to kind of take direction.
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And did I shelve some of those things in order to make it happen.
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Absolutely.
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Now now you will hear boomers and, gen xers say now, well, no, I value work life balance.
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I value all those things, but they kinda we shelved it in a lot of ways, which is Yeah.
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To some degree, that's not what millennials are doing.
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So Millennials are kind of tipping things on its ends.
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Mhmm.
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Because as a a boomer, say potentially managing, a millennial, I'm like, what?
20:08
What do you mean?
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Like, you wanna ask me how why this is done this way.
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Just do it that way.
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Right.
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It's it's it's exactly.
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I feel like our generation is way more we are curious and we really wanna hone in on the the
20:22
why things are done certain ways.
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Right?
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Like, why is it why is it that there are a lot of organizations that still mandate their
20:31
employees to work from 8 to 5 or 9 to 5 when they are fully capable and have the resources
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to offer a flexible day, right, as one one of the benefits of this pandemic, if there are
20:41
any, right, one of the benefits is that there are so many companies that are recognizing that
20:46
they are fully sustainable by having a lot of their staff work from home, and they're
20:51
probably actually saving some resources and some money, or they're probably finding
20:56
opportunities where they can where this whole thing is is over.
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Another thing too is you have to look at our environment.
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Right?
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Like, you have to look at pollution and track In Seattle, traffic is awful.
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It's absolutely terrible.
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My my partner, he has to drive an hour a half each way.
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To work.
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Right?
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That's 3 hours out of his day.
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That's 3 hours out of his work life balance.
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Now that he's been working from home, you know, it takes him 30 seconds to go to work.
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He's so much happier.
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He's getting just as much work done or more work done.
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His collaboration with his team via Zoom or whatever they use fantastic.
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There's there's nothing that is wrong about it, and he's recognizing that this type of living
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could actually reduce his stress and just make him feel more valued, right, in his
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organization.
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Absolutely.
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So I think there that that is the positive.
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Actually, yesterday, I was an interview and a CEO, and that's what she was saying because
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they're ahead of the curve in that they have, they were doing virtual teams all along.
21:56
So doing the shift, you know, but if you think about virtual, teams or working from home, it's
22:01
about trust.
22:02
So if you think about about the autocratic, kinda top down management, it's really, I, you
22:08
know, just as I'm gonna date myself, but it was back in 2004.
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So I was a, a health and wellness, executive, and there was a shift to go virtual.
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Big big for us at that time.
22:22
And I remember the CEO who was still, you know, the owner wanted FaceTime.
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So he was having this concept, Jenna, of, okay.
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I know we need to do this, but how am I gonna know what they're doing.
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So he had this whole conundrum in his brain about so it really boiled down to trust.
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And after talking to the CEO yesterday, she was saying, Her teams have always demonstrated
22:49
Mhmm.
22:50
That they perform.
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They are they feel valued.
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They feel purpose driven.
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They feel like She says, in in her opinion, which I loved, what she was saying is, I try to
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bring out the leader in everybody.
23:03
I am the CEO, but she said, okay, today, you don't you don't know what to call yourself?
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I'll call yourself the CEO.
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I don't care because I truly believe that in within each person around me, that they are a
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leader.
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So I
23:17
think that whole element is you're right.
23:20
We're gonna put things into perspective from a hierarchical structure of due because I told
23:26
you to, too, what do you think we should do?
23:28
Which is a completely different way of shifting, and what we know it's better for
23:32
people's mental well-being.
23:33
It's better for work life balance like you talk about with your partner, people are getting up.
23:38
They're able to maybe have breakfast with their families or their partners.
23:42
They're able to go for bike rides with their with their kids.
23:45
You know, those types of things.
23:46
And that's what I think, in this day and age, it's that that's the benefit of, unfortunately,
23:53
for us to have gotten that I kinda hear the way we did, but it's a benefit that we will gain.
23:58
Absolutely.
23:59
And the woman you talked to, she sounds like a great leader, by the way.
24:02
Abs phenomenal.
24:03
Phenomenal.
24:04
She she, you know, I'm writing my book on authenticity and leadership and teams, and she
24:09
was one of the ones that I wanted to interview because I think it's so valuable for people to
24:14
hear the message, especially in this time, and her her teams are relishing because they've
24:20
already been doing it.
24:21
That's amazing.
24:22
That's amazing.
24:22
When I when I first went into corporate management, I was not a great leader or a great
24:28
manager for a lot of different reasons.
24:30
Right?
24:30
And it took months for me to really evolve and and and really change and develop.
24:34
But once I really started evolving and really started changing.
24:38
I took this approach of I think when I first went into leadership, I took this approach of
24:43
I'm the boss.
24:44
Right?
24:45
And you report to me because that's all I saw, and that's all I kinda knew.
24:48
And the business I was in was so fast paced that I didn't really even have time to reflect
24:52
on what type of leader and manager would be most effective for my team to really grow the
24:56
business and grow them professionally.
24:58
So it took time for me to really evolve and and develop and and such and such.
25:02
But once I got my stride going and once I really started, you know, building a team of
25:07
people, I recognize that the most important thing that a leader could be is a coach.
25:13
Mhmm.
25:14
And a coach is not someone that tells you what to do.
25:17
A coach is someone that uses questioning to bring it out of their team.
25:22
Right?
25:22
And a coach is someone who encourages their team and loves them and doesn't use fear to
25:26
motivate them.
25:27
They use love and they use drive, and they use passion, and they use purpose.
25:31
And so I started slowly taking that approach.
25:34
Right?
25:34
And that's how I felt like my my team was built, and we were, you know, we were 6 when we
25:39
were driving while I was there.
25:40
But that took a long time for me to get to because I was, you know, young when I took this
25:47
position.
25:48
And I didn't have any corporate management experience and everything was so fast.
25:52
And and all I knew were the executives on top.
25:55
Who were gen xers and boomers, and they were so used to, you know, telling you what to do.
26:00
Now I know that worked for them.
26:01
They got to a place for a reason, but That was so hard for me.
26:05
I tried it, and my authenticity pushed back.
26:08
Right?
26:08
This is not working for me, and I had to completely pivot my leadership style, and I'm
26:12
so glad that I did.
26:13
Well, I think we, you know, the older generations, the extras and the boomers can
26:19
learn from millennials because I think truly, would we have liked to have have purpose driven
26:25
lives throughout throughout?
26:26
Absolutely.
26:27
Because we think, oh, we'll get to that.
26:29
Right?
26:29
When I get you know, out of early leadership and into, you know, kinda I've I've found my
26:34
ground, then I'll then I'll demonstrate it.
26:37
But what happens is is you get into a pattern, like a holding pattern and then to change it
26:41
back becomes difficult, which whereas with millennials, they're kind of they're
26:46
interviewing the company as much as the company's interviewing them, which really
26:51
that's kind of bravado to, you know, it's like, woah, what do you mean?
26:54
Like, I wanna see what are you about and and and what is your value and your your purpose in
27:01
this company, and do I see that fit?
27:03
Which I actually think as much as it's gutsy, it's actually what we're what we're finding is
27:09
better with mental health and well-being for people's career, because let's let's face it.
27:13
I started working at 21, I'm 54 now.
27:17
Right?
27:17
I've been working for a very long time.
27:20
And to be for most of us that have come, maybe shelf things along the way, gonna pick it up at
27:25
what point.
27:27
Right?
27:27
Sometimes you run out of that and go, oh my goodness.
27:30
I was gonna do this in my forties, and it didn't happen in my fifties, and I'm all almost
27:33
at the where I'm gonna retire.
27:34
So I think that's a valuable lesson that I think, could be learned.
27:38
What what other lessons do you think that millennials can teach or do teach, but maybe
27:44
gets misconstrued as they you know, you know, they're they're they're stepping up and they're
27:49
not They're not finding their space.
27:51
What what are some of the other lessons?
27:53
Right.
27:53
I'm actually gonna piggyback off of what of what you just said.
27:56
I'm glad that you actually, you know, mentioned that you know, a lot of a lot of people who are
28:00
gen xers or boomers, they say, I'm gonna wait to X Y Z until they retire until they're older.
28:05
I think that I'll just with the ability for us to see the news all the time on our phones on
28:13
social media, you know, we we get news quickly.
28:16
So for example, Kobe Bryant's death.
28:19
Okay?
28:19
I'm not a Kobe Bryant fan.
28:20
I know he was a great basketball player, but everybody knew about his death within, like, 5
28:25
minutes of it being post like everyone around the world that seemed like.
28:28
And that impacted so many people, regardless if they were true Kobe Bryant or just in general.
28:35
I talked to a lot of my friends who said, you know, they respected Kobe for who he was.
28:39
They weren't a fan, but it hit them so hard because they realize that debt your your life
28:44
is not guaranteed.
28:46
Life does not wait for anybody and death does not wait for you at all.
28:51
So this idea that, okay, we're gonna work our whole lives until we're 65 and then retire and
28:58
then have this grand, you know, 30 years that idea is not guaranteed.
29:04
And I think a lot of millennials, and I know there are boomers and genics or is that
29:08
understand this too, but I think a lot of millennials are really grasping that concept
29:13
more of, okay, so what if I'm at this job that I hate?
29:18
But you know, it's it's prepping me every single thing for my retirement at 65.
29:23
I'm counting on the days.
29:25
Well, what if I die in 10 years?
29:27
What if I die in 15 years?
29:28
What if we have another crazy pandemic like this and everything washes out?
29:32
Why don't we why don't we yes?
29:33
Of course, we need to save for our retirement and invest.
29:36
That so important, but why don't we focus on the present and the day by day?
29:40
Why don't we focus on doing things that make us feel good and make us feel joyful and and do
29:47
work that is more meaningful because my my next 10 years aren't guaranteed.
29:52
Tomorrow is guaranteed for me.
29:54
So I don't want to slave away at a job or be in a relationship, right, or a marriage or
29:59
something that is not working for me just to get to that end date in 30 some, like, 30 years
30:05
where I can just be living my life now.
30:07
So I feel like that is that's a huge takeaway, and I think that's a huge lesson that that
30:11
millennials are, can can offer to older generations.
30:15
And to your point about the fast, you know, the fact that we're so you're so plugged in.
30:20
Right?
30:20
The internet came in what what year in the early nineties or something.
30:24
Something like that.
30:25
Yeah.
30:25
Yeah.
30:25
And prior to that, there was there was life, Jenna, before that.
30:28
Right?
30:29
And but really, the shift you know, I have an eighteen year old son and he's not known
30:36
anything without being connected.
30:39
And, you know, now it it it does change the psyche.
30:42
And even now the time that we're in, what is it gonna do to the young kids are going through
30:47
this whole space to the the the gen gen zeds.
30:52
Like, what's what are they?
30:53
The ones who are in university now.
30:57
That are just coming out, you know, that are in their 3rd or 4th years or whatever or in their
31:02
masters, what reality Is that gonna shift in them?
31:06
Yeah.
31:07
And I I've thought about that quite a bit.
31:09
I have a friend who is, he's in his MBA program.
31:11
He's technically a millennial because he's 28, but There are a few people in his MBA program
31:16
that are younger.
31:16
They, you know, got a head start in their name MBA program, and they're in their early
31:20
twenties.
31:21
And he was I asked him.
31:22
I just said, you know, how are what are your peers thinking, whether they're millennials or
31:26
not?
31:27
What are what are they thinking right now?
31:28
And he said they are absolutely terrified.
31:31
Because they are in these prestigious MBA programs that cost them so much money.
31:36
And now you know, they're not even sure if they can get a job after this, you know, and these
31:43
prestigious programs.
31:44
They're not sure if they will get a job, you know, the fall or this winter or even next
31:50
year.
31:51
And so they are terrified now.
31:52
So now I'm thinking about this younger generation and how it could almost be the exact
31:57
same cycle that the millennials went through in 2008, 2009.
32:02
And I have empathy for them.
32:04
Of course.
32:04
Because the reality is we don't know what it's gonna look like.
32:07
We know we've already seen it in the short term.
32:09
We do see, like you said, the unemployment you know, has already started to, you know, people
32:15
were applying for, business benefit here in Canada yesterday, then there was something like
32:22
240,000 applications for this this, you know, it's not unemployment insurance, but it's a a
32:28
benefit to help business owners 240,000 people had already applied for it by 11 o'clock,
32:35
yesterday, and it opened yesterday morning.
32:38
So that's showing you the state of things.
32:41
You know, so I think unless on we have to wait and and see how it shakes out, but I we know
32:46
definitely in whatever realm everybody's economy will have to you know, rebelled at some
32:51
point.
32:52
So one more thing.
32:53
Do you mind if I add one more thing to that too?
32:55
Yeah.
32:55
Absolutely.
32:56
The in the United States.
32:57
You know, we have this this huge stimulus package that is coming.
33:00
And, basically, I think it's if you make less than 99,000 dollars, then you're eligible for,
33:06
I I believe, I think it's $1200.
33:08
Okay?
33:08
Okay.
33:09
Now it it and for people who live in large cities, New York, Miami, LA, San Francisco,
33:19
Seattle, Denver.
33:20
Okay?
33:21
That I've heard from a lot of people from friends through Twitter, you know, different
33:25
millennials saying that they do not like that stimulus package because there are a lot of
33:32
people, one who are making more than $99,000, especially in those areas.
33:37
And just because that may sound like a lot of money to people in areas such as Seattle, it's
33:42
really expensive to live here.
33:44
So rent is high.
33:45
Everything else is so expensive.
33:46
So even if someone is making, let's say, a $100 a year, that could be equivalent to something
33:52
way less right, in in a different city.
33:55
So from from what I've heard is that a lot of people in these major cities aren't that
34:00
impressed with this first stimulus package because the $1200, they're either not gonna be
34:05
able to get it, and they're still gonna struggle.
34:07
Or if they do qualify for it, that doesn't even cover half of the rent.
34:11
Probably not.
34:12
The rent.
34:13
I'm thinking in New York City,
34:14
you know, or
34:15
or or in Seattle, like like 1200 is is not gonna cover someone's rent.
34:20
So I think
34:20
That's nothing.
34:21
Yeah.
34:21
Yeah.
34:22
So we will we will see a lot of disparity based on some of these, stimulus packages so
34:28
hopefully as as we go through this and our governments look at it, they will make
34:32
amendments accordingly to be able to adjust based on some of the things that we're talking
34:35
about.
34:36
Mhmm.
34:36
Mhmm.
34:37
So let's talk about, you know, you're you're young, you're you're, you know, you've been in
34:43
management, you've done the traditional schooling bed, you know, all that stuff and,
34:48
you gained wisdom about going inside and kinda leading from that space, which which is, you
34:54
know, that's what was the alignment when we chatted initially about, authenticity and yours
35:00
is leading from the gut with your with your, podcast.
35:03
So tell me how did you get connected to that space within yourself to be able to create what
35:12
you've created.
35:13
Yeah.
35:13
Absolutely.
35:14
So I long story short, I've had 2 major careers, and now I'm finally at my purpose.
35:22
That's kinda how I like to call it.
35:23
So for years, I was an elementary school teacher.
35:26
And I absolutely love teaching.
35:28
I taught 5th grade most of the time.
35:29
Loved it.
35:30
And then I transitioned into business, and it was The reason why I I quit my pension job,
35:37
right, it's like my parents like to say, secure job doing something super important.
35:42
Your head going, oh my goodness.
35:43
What are you doing?
35:45
Oh my gosh.
35:45
Yeah.
35:46
It was it was hard for them to comprehend.
35:48
And I even went to get my master's degree in education, right, So, you know, the the the
35:54
reason why the moment that I decided that I needed to switch that career was actually, when
36:00
Oprah Win the Oprah Winfrey was here in Seattle doing a tour, and it was, like, your life
36:06
weekend or something like that.
36:08
Like, years ago.
36:09
And I went to the to the conference at 3 day conference, and I cried the entire time because
36:15
there was something in my guts that was telling me that as much as I love teaching and as much
36:22
as I am good at it, This wasn't the final step for me.
36:27
There was something more out there, and it was this painful gut feeling that lasted for
36:33
months.
36:34
Oh,
36:34
wow.
36:34
Like, this was my first I feel like this was my first alignment with my intuition where it was
36:41
really strong.
36:42
And it made no sense.
36:43
It made no sense.
36:44
Why would I leave a great pension, stable job, teaching kids?
36:48
I'm good at it.
36:48
I love it.
36:49
Everyone likes Michelleman.
36:51
Made no sense, but I decided that I needed to embrace it and leave.
36:56
And that was one of the hardest things I've ever done, and there was so much shame that
37:01
came from it a little externally, but a lot internally.
37:04
Long story short, I transitioned into business working for 5 Fortune 500 company.
37:10
And it was because a lot of my friends said, Jenny, you'd be really good in sales, you're a
37:13
people person.
37:14
I bet you can take your talents and education and and trans transition on the business.
37:19
Okay.
37:20
Sure.
37:20
I thought when I I've always kinda thought about being an entrepreneur, but I didn't
37:23
really know.
37:24
I just felt it in my guts.
37:26
I just felt it, but I didn't know what it meant.
37:28
I just know that don't I just follow it and see what happens?
37:31
I have nothing to lose.
37:32
So I ended up becoming very successful at this organization.
37:35
I was promoted twice.
37:37
I paid off all my student loan debts.
37:39
You know, I I got a lot in retirement and investing.
37:41
I saved a lot.
37:42
I was able to travel.
37:43
I learned so much with this organization.
37:45
I, you know, grew my my clientele list, health businesses, clients, my team, all these things.
37:49
It was honestly a great experience.
37:53
But about a year ago at this time, a little bit maybe like 16 months ago.
37:59
I started getting this feeling again in my gut.
38:02
And I was like, why now?
38:04
Why?
38:05
I'm doing really well.
38:07
Yeah.
38:07
Financially.
38:09
I have a really good title.
38:11
I am leading people.
38:13
I am helping my clients.
38:16
Why is my gut telling me that this isn't it?
38:19
Why am I feeling depressed?
38:21
Why am I feeling anxious?
38:23
So I sat on it for months, and I just kinda processed it.
38:27
And it was like, every day it got worse.
38:29
It was like, I heard these voices in my head coming from my gut And coming from, you know, a
38:34
higher bean, Jenna, you've done well here.
38:37
It's time to pivot again.
38:38
Time to move on.
38:39
Time to move on.
38:41
So it wasn't until last August that it was so bad where I was getting physically sick.
38:47
My body was making me get sick because it was just trying to tell me that it was time to
38:53
move, and I wasn't I was so scared to embrace that fear.
38:58
I finally decided to do it, and it was really hard.
39:02
Long story short, my last day was technically in October.
39:06
And You know, it it took some time for me to adjust to, okay, I'm not working.
39:11
I don't know what I'm doing.
39:12
My gut told me to leave this very high paying job what am I doing?
39:16
But it took a little bit of time, but as soon as I kind of got out of that space, I started
39:21
really focusing on my self and my well-being and really started getting aligned and in tune
39:29
with myself.
39:30
And something that I wanted to do that kinda came up one day was I would I would really like
39:38
to be on some type of platform and do something really inspirational for other people.
39:43
Just for fun.
39:45
Just for fun.
39:46
Might as well focus on hobbies.
39:48
I didn't really know any of my hobbies were besides going to the gym and cooking and
39:52
walking my dog.
39:52
You know, I didn't have any, like, hobbies.
39:55
And I knew that I was a very creative person, but I wanted to see if if I could find some of
40:01
my talents and passions through these hobbies while just not working.
40:05
So I thought of, okay.
40:07
Well, why don't I do a podcast And I thought, well, a lot of my friends and my peers listened
40:11
to podcasts, so can't be that hard.
40:14
So I started my podcast.
40:15
I just watched a couple of YouTube videos.
40:17
And figured it out.
40:18
The tech piece, all of it.
40:19
I got my mic and everything for less than $300.
40:23
And, you know, I set up, like, four people to be on my cast.
40:26
And the idea of intuition was so strong because I was thinking about how I love teaching and
40:31
how my intuition told me to do it, and it led me to, the right path.
40:35
And then I left this high paying job, and I just knew that it was gonna lead me to another
40:40
right path.
40:41
So I thought my intuition has told me to do all these things.
40:45
And I think it's right.
40:46
I'm curious to know if other people have had their intuition tell them something and have
40:52
have led them down a path.
40:54
Regardless of what that is, with the relationship or job or whatever.
40:57
And so, you know, I reached out to 3, 4 friends and who I thought were kinda cool that listened
41:02
their intuition.
41:02
And they said, yeah, we'll be on the show.
41:04
I thought that literally five people would listen to it.
41:07
Mhmm.
41:07
That's what I thought.
41:08
I said, that's fun little passion project.
41:11
Not a big deal.
41:11
Some of the inspirational And I released my first episode right after Thanksgiving, and an
41:17
episode has come out every Wednesday except for the Christmas New Year's Eve New Year's Day.
41:21
And the podcast has grown, which is great.
41:26
It it I I'm shocked that people are listening to it, honestly.
41:30
You know, and and the people, the guests, the people that wanna be on the show, and the
41:34
topics that we go over.
41:35
I mean, we've talked about things such as intuition and cancer.
41:39
We've talked about career change.
41:40
We've talked about divorce.
41:41
We've talked about relationships.
41:42
We've talked about domestic violence, grief, being a medium.
41:46
We've talked about workplace culture.
41:48
Like, there's, you know, there's so much content that can go into this podcast.
41:52
And so just by starting the podcast, really opened up the door to so many different
41:58
opportunities and really allowed me to see my creativity.
42:04
Something that I didn't realize about myself fully was that maybe it's obvious to other
42:08
people, but wasn't obvious to me is that I'm a good communicator, whether it's verbally or
42:13
writtenly.
42:14
Right?
42:14
I'm a good listener.
42:16
I can write content.
42:18
I love to produce.
42:19
I like to create all these things started coming out.
42:21
I like helping people.
42:23
That I I kinda knew before this, but not really.
42:25
And so I'm thinking, oh, wow.
42:27
I'm discovering all these different things about myself.
42:30
And and with the podcast, you know, one of the best things about it is that I get, you know,
42:35
social media, DMs, and emails in Texas saying I love this one episode.
42:40
Your guest inspired me this way.
42:42
You know, and that right there has been more powerful than the stats of the show.
42:47
You know, I'm used to coming from a job, a sales up sales job where you're looking at
42:51
metrics and stats all the time.
42:52
That's how you that's how you gauge your performance.
42:55
With this podcast short, look at them, but honestly after a while, I thought, you know,
42:59
I'm actually gonna measure this based on the reviews that I'm getting and the impact that
43:04
it's that it's, done on people versus, you know, how many people are actually listening.
43:10
So with all of that, that's open the door, and that actually helped me tap into my purpose,
43:16
which is to empower people, specifically millennials, to really embrace their fear hone
43:22
in on their intuition and really live a purpose driven life.
43:27
So that's how the coaching kind
43:29
of came from it.
43:30
And it, you know, that that will be valuable now with with this space we're gonna go into.
43:35
You know, with with my coaching, you know, with, as being with my background in
43:40
psychotherapy and corporate consulting, this is the time because it's all about resilience.
43:45
Right?
43:46
Really at the end of the day, because we will get through this.
43:48
It may not You will.
43:49
Kinda morph into what we think it should look like, but we we got we got through lots of
43:54
different things.
43:54
Right, through the if you think about the crash and H1N1 and 911, all that stuff.
44:00
We got through it.
44:02
We will get through this, but what will be need what people will need is because I I think a
44:06
lot of people are at home, Jenna, rethinking a lot of things, meaning purpose.
44:12
Yep.
44:13
If this was my last day, which is the kind of work that I do, and and obviously, you're
44:18
you're helping them list to that deep inner voice.
44:20
And I often say that we all have it, and we're born with it.
44:23
It gets pricked and prodded along the way.
44:25
It gets blunted and and and kinda gets dusty.
44:29
And then there comes a point when that alignment comes and there's no there's no
44:33
turning away from it.
44:34
And I can I can think of my life multiple times where I've gotten that?
44:38
And I've ignored it, and then then I thought, oh my goodness.
44:41
Had I just have stopped?
44:43
Because when I looked back and I went, it was right there.
44:45
It was right my face, but I didn't wanna look at it at that time.
44:48
So I think if those are the conversations you're having, absolutely, they'd be valuable,
44:53
and it'll be more so because we're I think we're the other benefit that I see to this is
44:58
that we're becoming more enlightened, in the world about who and what is importance, and
45:05
how, you know, we're we're in a space in the world where how materialistic people have
45:09
become, and it's all all about possessions and all those things.
45:13
It's it we're we're stripping, really, we're stripping it all away, and we're thinking about
45:17
we just need to be able to get to the grocery store, get to the pharmacy, you know, all those
45:22
basic things.
45:22
But other than that, where are we going?
45:24
We're going you know, we're just kinda having to to look at really all the great things that
45:29
we really have.
45:29
And maybe if you think about it, what's in your home and and those types of things.
45:34
We're blessed in a lot.
45:35
We're all very blessed.
45:37
So blessed.
45:37
So blessed.
45:38
And I I think you're completely right.
45:39
I think that our I think that as a whole, we are going back to Maslow's law, right, shelter,
45:46
food, water at the bottom.
45:48
Yep.
45:48
Right?
45:48
You know, the the little things that we need.
45:50
We don't really need all these material materialistic items.
45:54
Yeah.
45:55
Yeah.
45:55
In our life.
45:55
And I think the world kinda got lost along the way there.
45:58
Oh, yeah.
45:59
Lots of different ways.
46:00
So we're it's almost like we're being, you know, chopped off in the knees, and now we're
46:03
like, okay.
46:04
I to learn how to function and go back to some of the basics.
46:07
So I think that's the value that, that we're gaining here.
46:12
And, you know, people talk about being stuck with their families or whatever, but, you know,
46:17
really, we'll never get back this time again to be able to say, you know, that we had that time
46:24
and and learning.
46:25
I'm sure a lot of people are learning things that they maybe don't wanna learn about
46:28
themselves and their family.
46:30
Yep.
46:30
And or they're learning about really what am I made out of?
46:33
What do I value?
46:34
What's my purpose?
46:35
What's my meaning?
46:36
You know, if with things kind of not stopping out here, you have to stop and say what how am
46:44
I gonna how am I gonna deal with this world, whatever it's gonna look like?
46:47
Mhmm.
46:48
Mhmm.
46:48
Right?
46:49
Which I think it doesn't happen generally to that point where everything gets stopped like
46:54
it did two and a half weeks ago.
46:56
Mhmm.
46:57
Absolutely.
46:58
Absolutely.
46:59
Another thing that I like too, just a good mantra to have is to say embrace uncertainty.
47:07
You know, and then just to surrender.
47:09
Whatever that means to you, there are so many things that you can't control, but then there's
47:13
a lot in your life that you cannot control like a global pandemic.
47:18
Right?
47:18
And you have to fully surrender to this.
47:22
So I'm sure there's a lot of people millennials and otherwise that probably would love to tune
47:28
into your podcast and maybe even, you know, millennial leaders or people that are just
47:34
coming out, the gen zeds that are saying, wow, I I need to I need to learn more.
47:39
So tell tell us a little bit about where they can, listen to the podcast, what time, and,
47:45
where they can reach you if they're interested in in coaching.
47:48
Yeah.
47:49
Absolutely.
47:49
So for the podcast, you can go to all the major directories, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, It's
47:58
leading with your gut.
48:00
There's a new episode every single Wednesday.
48:03
So hopefully hopefully you shouldn't miss it.
48:05
If you are interested in my coaching services, I do have a website.
48:09
It's leading with your gut.com.
48:10
Heads up, it is under construction right now.
48:12
So depending on when this airs Not sure if it'll be available yet.
48:16
You can also you can email me directly.
48:18
It's leading with your gut.com, and Roxanne, I'll give you that link if you wanna put it in
48:23
the show notes as well.
48:25
For all all new individuals, I offer a free 60 minute virtual coaching session.
48:33
We can, yeah, really dive into what your fears are, really go into your goals, and then talk
48:40
about your purpose.
48:42
So that's definitely open for everybody.
48:44
I do have a few other services.
48:46
I do one on one coaching individualized coaching.
48:49
I'm actually in the process right now of creating online educational courses.
48:54
I do have a free course.
48:56
It's a how to create smart goals that you can find on my website.
49:01
I'm also gonna start working with corporations to do new manager training, and I wanna get
49:05
into the education space to do new teacher training since I was a teacher.
49:08
I didn't know how how hard that is.
49:09
And then finally, I'm helping some people to who are already purpose driven and just kinda
49:13
need like a start to get going, doing some consulting for them.
49:17
So writing content for their website or their podcasts or videos or ads or something like
49:22
that just to kinda get them going.
49:23
So you can either go to my website, leading with your gut, dotcom, or you can email me
49:28
directly leading with your gut at g mail dot com.
49:30
And we'll make sure that all the links are in the show notes.
49:32
So, you know, by all means, and if you get stuck or something, just reach out to me, and
49:37
I'll I'll be I'll make sure that you get connected with Jenna.
49:40
So what am I taking away today?
49:42
I'm taking away that we can learn so much, from millennials.
49:48
And they are really you are the gonna you are the leaders now and from gonna be for, you
49:54
know, the next 20, 30 years.
49:56
Right?
49:56
So we need to recognize that there are things that we can learn.
50:00
And with what our mental health and well-being, innovation and creativity comes from having
50:07
people lead from within.
50:09
And that's truly what I talk about, which is about being authentic and connected and valuing
50:14
whatever message people bring.
50:16
So that's what I think I gained today is to really you know, if you're that's what leaders
50:22
are doing today, there that's a valuable thing that we need to take into the next generation
50:27
and assist and pass that on to the, gen zeds that are gonna gonna come along.
50:33
So again, you know, please connect with Jenna if if that's, something that you're interested
50:38
in, you know, that I'm a mental health and wellness consultant.
50:42
If you're wanting to talk about mental resilience, we can do a virtual coaching call,
50:47
or I also have an online course, and you can go to roxanderhodge.com.
50:53
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
50:58
healthy change.
51:00
Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
51:06
rocksandurhaj.com/blue trend.
51:10
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.