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123 - Amor Fati: Why You Should Love Your Fate · Getting After It

• 0:00
  Brett: All right, everyone, welcome back to the Getting After it podcast.
• 0:02
  Brett: I am Brett Rossell and I'm going to be walking you through something today that has been a cornerstone in my mindset for all things Getting After it.
• 0:10
  Brett: And it's a Latin phrase.
• 0:12
  Brett: You may have heard it before, maybe not amor fati, which means love of fate, love your fate.
• 0:19
  Brett: And it's not just accepting what happens, it's not just enduring it, it's loving it, actively embracing everything life throws your way the good, the painful, the unfair, the unplanned as a necessary step on your path.
• 0:34
  Brett: So, with that said, let's get after it.
• 0:38
  Brett: Welcome back.
• 0:44
  Brett: Thanks, I'm happy to be a regular guest.
• 0:51
  Brett: You're a regular guest.
• 0:52
  Brett: Now.
• 0:52
  Brett: We have um.
• 0:52
  Brett: Last time we had our microphones in our hands, not anymore.
• 0:55
  Brett: Like I said, every up episode, I feel like there's an update to the studio, so we're making progress small, but right it's real so but meaningful yeah, well, this is kind of interesting because you are coming on not as a guest, but as a co-host.
• 1:13
  Brett: Yeah, student, co-host, whatever, I would say both okay but um, I'm happy to have you on so thank you, I'm excited to learn I feel like what we are talking about today is something you and I have been living.
• 1:27
  Ally: Is that the truth?
• 1:28
  Brett: It's been a difficult year for many reasons.
• 1:30
  Brett: I mean, we've had things come up with the house that we're trying to build.
• 1:34
  Brett: You're not in Provo yet.
• 1:36
  Brett: You're still in Mesa.
• 1:37
  Brett: Didn't get the job I was hoping I would get.
• 1:40
  Ally: Well, the promotion, the promotion.
• 1:42
  Brett: You're in a great position still, yeah good position but didn't get where I was hoping I would Right.
• 1:47
  Brett: So it feels like it's been setback after setback after setback.
• 1:52
  Ally: Right.
• 1:53
  Brett: It's been a little difficult.
• 1:54
  Ally: Right.
• 1:55
  Brett: But hopefully, with what we talk about today, we can see that there are actually things that we can learn from our situation and the challenges that come our way, because that's one thing that humans cannot get away from is feeling pain.
• 2:10
  Brett: We all will feel pain some point of our lives.
• 2:13
  Brett: It's not a matter of if it's when, and hopefully, with amorphity and some of these stoic principles we talk about, it'll help you get that muscle strength for when it does come, that it's not as challenging, and that kind of thing too.
• 2:26
  Brett: So what is amorphity?
• 2:28
  Brett: I'm gonna ask you, before I explain it, what do you think it means?
• 2:32
  Brett: To love your fate?
• 2:36
  Ally: I'm sure it's exactly what it sounds like.
• 2:38
  Ally: Like.
• 2:38
  Ally: Come what may and love it type of lesson, the experience we're given, find the good.
• 2:45
  Brett: That's kind of what I would imagine it would be yeah, that's pretty close it's um, pretty much it comes from the stoke philosophy of marcus aurelius.
• 2:55
  Brett: He echoed it a lot in his teachings.
• 2:57
  Brett: But it's radical acceptance and like.
• 3:01
  Brett: It's not saying things like, oh, I wish this didn't happen.
• 3:03
  Brett: It's like, oh, this had to happen and I'm better because of it.
• 3:08
  Brett: And so we've already talked about some of the things like with our house, not to get too into the details of it, but we would have been weighing over our heads with, like, the budget and that kind of thing too.
• 3:19
  Brett: And we're already seeing like, yes, it sucked that we had to make the choice to like hold off, but the benefits that have come from it and the I guess the perspective that we have is, like, doing it now would be a lot harder if, like, we waited a little bit and just waited for things to calm down in the market and that kind of thing.
• 3:39
  Brett: So I mean, yeah, like, are we better because of it?
• 3:44
  Brett: I don't know yet, but I think accepting that and instead of being like man we had to wait on the house for so long and creating all these sob stories that we could just tell ourselves and get ourselves in that rut of, like man, life is so unfair which it is, but you don't have to reflect on that all the time, you don't have to think about that a lot, about how unfair life is and, um, I think it's important to accept that but not ruminate on it and be like, yeah, this happened.
• 4:15
  Brett: What's my next move going to be?
• 4:16
  Brett: Like, how can I keep going forward?
• 4:18
  Brett: Um, seneca, he's a stoic.
• 4:22
  Brett: He says this.
• 4:23
  Brett: A good character, when established, is not made by favorable circumstances, but by enduring unfair, unfavorable ones with dignity.
• 4:32
  Brett: Real characters fordred adversity.
• 4:36
  Brett: Have you seen that happen in your life?
• 4:41
  Ally: character coming from adversity.
• 4:42
  Ally: Yeah, that's what life's all about.
• 4:44
  Ally: Of course, that's like a day-to-day.
• 4:45
  Ally: It feels like at this point I was thinking about what you're saying about the house and kind of what's been going on this year so far, and I think the reason sometimes it feels so painful is because we have such a fixed mindset of what we expect to happen.
• 5:00
  Brett: We have a timeline we're thinking of and I mean, and we're making up stories in our head like, oh, I can't wait to take our kids to the park that's right by our house, the kids we don't have the house, we don't have, yeah, so we're creating these stories of things that aren't even in our possession.
• 5:14
  Brett: Yeah.
• 5:14
  Ally: And we're expecting.
• 5:16
  Ally: Okay, if we start building today, we're going to be done by this point and I think we create this life which is good to like.
• 5:25
  Ally: Plan, of course yeah and find a daydream and be excited, but I think there's a balance of being so fixated like this is the only way that it's gonna.
• 5:34
  Ally: We're gonna be happy, yeah, and being able to kind of be more flexible with as things come, like that's part of the fun part, part of the plan.
• 5:43
  Ally: Yeah, great, accept it as it is and I think that's what the second quote you said, being adversity comes, builds character.
• 5:51
  Ally: I think it's only going to build character if you're accepting it for what it is and it's just life changes yeah because if you're fighting against adversity, you don't want your life to change.
• 6:01
  Ally: You're fighting against this like we can start building today and then we're just going to feel the pain of it later.
• 6:07
  Ally: Because because we're not in a position to do our plans right now.
• 6:11
  Ally: So I think, if we're fighting against adversity all the time, it's life's gonna be so much more contentious, yeah, rather than being able to accept and grow with what life gives you I agree with that.
• 6:23
  Brett: I think a lot of what this principle is trying to teach others and teach us is you can't control outside circumstances.
• 6:31
  Brett: You can only control how you respond to them, and that happens all the time.
• 6:36
  Brett: People get sick, people die, things like you can't build your house.
• 6:42
  Brett: Come up, people get fired.
• 6:43
  Brett: I mean, that's so minor compared to everything else yeah, but I mean, like you know, there are things that we literally cannot control.
• 6:48
  Brett: Um, I actually I went through and I I thought of like maybe four different things that people struggle with that you know, maybe there's an opportunity to take a step back and be like yes, this is my situation, but what can I learn from it?
• 7:03
  Brett: What can I learn from it, what can I take from it and how can I be better because of it?
• 7:06
  Brett: First one you're going through it right now.
• 7:08
  Brett: Oh gosh, what do you think it is?
• 7:10
  Ally: I have no idea.
• 7:11
  Brett: Injuries.
• 7:11
  Brett: Injuries, injuries and some kind of setback in that, but it's frustrating.
• 7:18
  Brett: Yeah, it's the worst, especially when you're like working towards something, you're working towards a marathon next month and your knee is bothering you like crap and it's just, it's frustrating and so it's not an easy thing to go through, like you feel like you're losing momentum, that's for sure, right yeah, it is really discouraging because it's hard to tell what's me being a little baby and what's like this is actually a physical injury that I need to baby it, you know yeah and, yeah, it's been so frustrating.
• 7:53
  Brett: It's frustrating but, like you know, injuries and yours isn't as severe as, like if someone broke their acl or whatever.
• 7:59
  Brett: Like name a name a different injury that recover, like requires recovery time.
• 8:03
  Brett: Um, a more fatigue would mean okay.
• 8:08
  Brett: Like how can I learn a new skill?
• 8:10
  Brett: What can I work on?
• 8:11
  Brett: Like maybe it's it's time for me to up my mental game.
• 8:14
  Brett: Like I need to read some books.
• 8:15
  Brett: I have this time I used to train and now I can use it to help build my mind.
• 8:19
  Ally: I don't think for what we've been talking about specifically with like money and yours.
• 8:25
  Brett: But focus on recovery.
• 8:28
  Brett: Yeah, that's true.
• 8:29
  Ally: Because we've been focused so much on miles and time and paces and distance.
• 8:33
  Ally: I think we really need to lock in on recovery in order to help a little bit with the injury.
• 8:39
  Brett: I have a guest coming on in a few, like a week and a half, who will be able to talk to me about that?
• 8:44
  Ally: Oh, thank heavens, I need it.
• 8:45
  Brett: So, Ashley, we're getting excited, True, but yeah, I mean, I also think it strengthens patience and just builds more resilience in you, so like if something else happens, like you'll be like oh, I've gone through this before.
• 8:59
  Brett: It just gives you experience, and experience is all for your good.
• 9:02
  Brett: So another one is in loss or failure, Like for me, didn't get the promotion and I think a good reframe for me would just be to ask, and I took this from my journal is what can this?
• 9:22
  Brett: teach me that success wouldn't have oh, that's interesting.
• 9:25
  Brett: Have Like what, could not getting the job?
• 9:31
  Brett: And thinking about it that way, like maybe there's something I learned in the process, like did I put enough time into it?
• 9:33
  Brett: I don't know.
• 9:34
  Brett: Did I?
• 9:34
  Brett: Could I have done other things?
• 9:35
  Brett: I don't know.
• 9:36
  Brett: But I think it's important for me to sit back and reflect on it and be like I didn't get the promotion.
• 9:40
  Brett: Let's figure out why and let's figure out what I need to do to improve my skill set, so when times like that do come up, then I have a better chance of getting them.
• 9:51
  Ally: Have you thought about that so far?
• 9:53
  Brett: Yeah, I think so.
• 9:55
  Ally: What do you think you've learned from it?
• 9:57
  Brett: then Definitely patience.
• 9:59
  Brett: Patience is one thing.
• 10:00
  Brett: The process took a long time, patience is one thing.
• 10:05
  Brett: It's like the process took a long time and I had to keep showing up and keep providing better data, better ideas and other things to the executive team who was making this decision.
• 10:14
  Brett: So I would say patience is one and then, oddly enough, grace is another Because, like I've talked to you so much about my mental health, how it can just spiral real quick, um, but I didn't want that to happen this time and I was like there's gotta be something I could do differently.
• 10:33
  Brett: Um, and so I think, instead of, you know, beating myself up, it's like yes, of course I will still do that to some capacity.
• 10:43
  Brett: Not beat myself up, but but be like okay, I could have done X, y and Z better.
• 10:46
  Brett: I think that's one thing that failure teaches you is where you could be better.
• 10:51
  Brett: Yeah, I don't think you have to look at it negative.
• 10:55
  Brett: I think you you should look at it as like you're a scientist and you're trying to run some experiments on yourself and you're like, okay, well, obviously I didn't have skill X, y and Z.
• 11:05
  Brett: How can I develop that in myself?
• 11:07
  Brett: And, if something comes up in the future be better, be a better candidate for that position, or something like that.
• 11:14
  Brett: Um, so it hasn't been like a negative self reflection exercise, I guess I would say, but it's been more of like okay, there must have been a reasoning behind why I didn't get the position.
• 11:26
  Brett: Let's break it down to the main causes.
• 11:31
  Ally: And ultimately, the guy that got the job way qualified, but yeah, I think obviously it makes sense like you need to take accountability and see where you can improve, like that's always something to be done.
• 11:42
  Ally: But also in this kind of type of situation, you got to keep in mind that somebody else's agency is a factor like it's not sure.
• 11:50
  Ally: I mean you guys could have been equally qualified, yet someone else is chosen.
• 11:56
  Ally: Yeah, just because people have their decision making, like the, the bosses over there are probably just making their own decisions whatever they see.
• 12:05
  Ally: However, they want to see the future of that position, and I think there's a lot of other things that go into it as well, that are out of our control.
• 12:12
  Brett: But absolutely like what you said, with um reflecting to see where you can adjust yeah and, who knows, like, maybe accepting this and and fully working on myself just a little bit more well, that's the lesson I need to learn that more fatigue promises like, yeah, it's like you love your fate.
• 12:29
  Brett: You like I said in the beginning, like, um, this had to happen to me and I'm better because of it.
• 12:36
  Brett: Like that kind of mindset, I think, is a lot stronger than just being the victim and just placing blame on everyone else and being like all these people suck, like they made the wrong decision, like they they may have, who knows, but is that going to get you anywhere?
• 12:52
  Brett: No, like that mindset gets you nowhere except you get madder and madder, like the things around you, and it's just not a good place to be right so I think another place where a more fatigue comes in helpful is like in relationships, either friendships or, if you're in a romantic relationship, if it's a family member, whatever, like.
• 13:13
  Brett: I think it's hard to lose friends that way.
• 13:18
  Brett: We've had our fair share and it's never fun because you're always like man, like I, want the best for that person and they're going down a path that we can't help them on and it's not like you're.
• 13:28
  Brett: You're shutting that door to be, you know, completely closed and like closed off from that friend or that family member or whatever.
• 13:35
  Brett: But I think there is times when you're like you know what, they're going down a different path.
• 13:40
  Brett: I'm not going that way.
• 13:42
  Brett: I'm going to close this door and I'll still be friendly, but I'm not going to be like spending a lot of time with that person.
• 13:49
  Ally: Who are your friends?
• 13:51
  Brett: Who are my friends?
• 13:52
  Ally: I said you are your friends.
• 13:53
  Brett: Oh, I was like.
• 13:53
  Brett: I know your friends.
• 13:55
  Ally: Name them off.
• 13:56
  Brett: You, I was like I know your friends, Name them off.
• 13:57
  Ally: Name all of them.
• 13:57
  Ally: I was like you are your circle and so obviously you have to be mindful of who you spend your time with.
• 14:00
  Ally: Yeah, and that makes sense.
• 14:02
  Ally: I think this is an interesting one.
• 14:03
  Ally: For what's that phrase?
• 14:04
  Ally: Again A more Fatigue, fatigue?
• 14:07
  Ally: Yeah, I think relationships is an interesting one with, like breakups and stuff like that.
• 14:15
  Ally: Yeah, because I think that's like a hard circumstance and I think breakups are the perfect example of like accepting it, because it's gonna.
• 14:23
  Ally: Literally breakups are like the best trial ever, because either you break up and you realize what you really want, or you break up and you're one step closer to your spouse it's true, and so it's like that's right and so that's we're married.
• 14:38
  Ally: That's like one of the more difficult because you're so attached to somebody.
• 14:42
  Ally: But that's like one of the perfect examples of how, if you accept your fate, if you understand it's for a reason, that's only like that trial always gets you on a better end of things.
• 14:53
  Brett: Yeah, for sure.
• 14:53
  Brett: It's like that same principle applies in sales all the time.
• 14:58
  Brett: Like um, I would always tell my team that if someone tells you no, you're one step closer to a yes.
• 15:04
  Brett: Yeah, and it's like you know that person needed to tell you no, but you're, you're getting closer and so that same thing with, like breakups.
• 15:11
  Brett: It's like, well, that person broke up with me, I'm getting closer to my spouse.
• 15:15
  Brett: Or like you know what it could be a bad situation, like a toxic relationship, and you're like I'm out of there now, like whatever it is, um, it's gonna be painful, but rip the band-aid off and there's good on the other side there's good on the other side there always is and especially like, if you have perspective with that, like you have to look for the good.
• 15:34
  Brett: Yeah, you can't.
• 15:34
  Brett: Just because with breakups too, that's a great example on how people can just wallow in their sorrows all day long, ruminate on it nonstop, tell themselves like maybe I wasn't good enough for that person or whatever, and they can just make up these stories.
• 15:49
  Brett: But instead it's like you know what I'm just going to move on.
• 15:53
  Brett: It takes a lot of strength and it's hard to do.
• 15:56
  Brett: It's easier said than done, but it is powerful and, like you said, you can learn a lot from the people that you date or spend time with.
• 16:03
  Brett: That helps you.
• 16:06
  Brett: So let me ask you a question why do you think we resist accepting our fate If we know that, like this is the life that we have?
• 16:16
  Brett: And, to your point, like sometimes when we make up stories in our head, we fantasize about our lives and we have these situations pre-built in our minds of like this is how we expect it to go, and then when that doesn't happen, we get pretty beat up.
• 16:34
  Brett: So why do you think it's hard to accept we?
• 16:40
  Ally: get pretty beat up.
• 16:40
  Ally: So why do you think it's hard to accept?
• 16:41
  Ally: I think we have such a little scope of vision for our lives.
• 16:44
  Ally: Yeah, we have an outline that we think is perfect, that we think we want not knowing anything outside of that little bubble, and when things change or when things get difficult, I think it's hard to look beyond what we envision for ourselves, and I mean in our own lives.
• 17:08
  Ally: Like we talked about, we've been going through a lot of random stuff right now of just taking l's left and right, yeah, but we're walking out of church today and you're like we got an L stamped on our head.
• 17:20
  Ally: I know, I know it just really feels like that these days for some reason, but because we have such an idea of how we thought our lives would be at this point, of how we wanted things to be going by now, rather than having long-term goals.
• 17:36
  Ally: We want a family eventually, we want to have a house eventually.
• 17:39
  Ally: We want all these things, of course, but we put so much pressure on having certain things within a time frame that we imagined and because of that it's so hard when things are not working out in our favor.
• 17:52
  Ally: But I think the reason that we do that is, I think it's natural, I think it's normal human behavior to want what we want right now and it's hard to accept anything else.
• 18:05
  Ally: But it seems as though if we just broaden our perspective, that would help a lot.
• 18:11
  Brett: Yeah, I agree.
• 18:11
  Ally: With getting in that roadblock.
• 18:14
  Brett: Yeah, and I mean to your point yeah, I feel like we want control we want comfort and we want our life to fit the script that we wrote for it.
• 18:24
  Brett: Like, oh yeah, we want to like have a house by this time and all this stuff.
• 18:29
  Brett: But like I think that that same mindset is a bad.
• 18:33
  Brett: It can be a bad mindset, like when you're training for things, um, because you'll put a timeline on it.
• 18:37
  Brett: Can be a bad mindset like when you're training for things, um, because you'll put a timeline on something and be like, okay, I'm going to run, um, a three, 30 marathon on this state, and then you train super hard to do it.
• 18:46
  Brett: And let's say, you get there and you're three, 35,.
• 18:48
  Brett: You get three, 35.
• 18:50
  Brett: Yeah, five minutes slower than you expected.
• 18:54
  Brett: And there's two options that you can like do from that, and my opinion is like one, you could be like, okay, I didn't get it, I'm done.
• 19:00
  Brett: Like you could quit.
• 19:02
  Brett: Or the second option is like man, I didn't expect that to be as hard as it was.
• 19:07
  Brett: Maybe I didn't take training as seriously as I should have, maybe I didn't spend time feeling as much as I should have.
• 19:12
  Brett: And it's like you either have the choice to improve or to give in.
• 19:17
  Brett: And when you give in, that's like you quit fighting and it's hard, but we want control, we want that predictability.
• 19:28
  Ally: I would even take that a step further with what we've experienced with training right now.
• 19:33
  Ally: I wanted Boston so bad.
• 19:34
  Ally: They shortened the time to 325 instead of 330.
• 19:37
  Ally: What a nightmare.
• 19:39
  Ally: Dirty Way off pace and Brent and I have been training for this marathon and it's so hard.
• 19:48
  Ally: Even before the race you gave the example of you want 330, you get 335.
• 19:53
  Ally: Even before you get to the race, it's hard not to give in at the training Whereas my paces are so off.
• 19:59
  Ally: I know I'm nowhere near 330 right now.
• 20:01
  Ally: I want to quit because I know I should even go to the race, because I know I'm not going to hit that goal, and so I think that's why, Well, I know I'm not going to 330 this time that would be a miracle.
• 20:13
  Ally: But all I'm saying is, I think that role that you just talked about of not giving in and continuing to adjust and push and retrain and stuff I think that happens before even the race.
• 20:26
  Ally: That happens during the training.
• 20:27
  Ally: I know I'm off my paces.
• 20:28
  Ally: I can either just give up and not go run the marathon because I know I'm not going to hit the marathon goal, or you can always adjust, and so we've changed my goal from getting a sub 330 this race to just PRing, which is a lot more feasible.
• 20:45
  Ally: You can just keep progressing, take the little accomplishments and then eventually I'll get Boston qualified.
• 20:51
  Ally: But yeah, I think that rule applies way before even the race time.
• 20:55
  Ally: It happens way before.
• 20:57
  Ally: It's like your day-to-, it's like your day-to-day life, your day-to-day actions, and as you keep going you may need to adjust.
• 21:04
  Ally: And just like we talk about our circumstances with the house or like the l's we've been taking, yeah, sometimes we need to adjust along the way.
• 21:11
  Ally: It shouldn't be when you're at the finish line that you're deciding if you're going to give up or not, right?
• 21:15
  Brett: Right, that's a good point.
• 21:16
  Ally: And so I think that's what helps me personally with not getting so discouraged and disappointed when things don't go our way is because we can adjust what the end goal was before we even get to the end.
• 21:30
  Brett: That's fair.
• 21:30
  Brett: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 21:32
  Brett: I like that.
• 21:33
  Brett: The podcast is also something like that too.
• 21:36
  Brett: Like um, it's changed a lot over the almost three years I've been doing this.
• 21:41
  Ally: How fun though.
• 21:42
  Brett: It's pretty cool, but it started at my table in my Saratoga Springs apartment where I was talking about the most random things.
• 21:50
  Brett: Those episodes are actually terrible.
• 21:52
  Ally: They're so good.
• 21:53
  Ally: If you go back and listen to them, they're so bad.
• 21:54
  Ally: Everyone needs a beginning.
• 21:55
  Brett: Yeah, but this beginning was rough, it was not good.
• 22:00
  Brett: So like it went from that to like I was doing zoom interviews with people we'll keep pause.
• 22:05
  Ally: Keep in mind this first interview, this first podcast you made is what got me to reach out to you again.
• 22:11
  Ally: After all these years, we finally went on a date that's true.
• 22:14
  Brett: So even though they were, your rough.
• 22:18
  Ally: It's kind of got the ball rolling for us 100.
• 22:21
  Brett: That's true.
• 22:21
  Brett: It's like what amorphity says like this this had to happen to me yeah, and I'm better for it.
• 22:28
  Brett: The embarrassing podcast I had to get the embarrassing ones out there and I'm better for it now, because now you're my wife.
• 22:34
  Brett: So, yeah, if anyone's out there, if you, if you need to get married, start a podcast someone will reach out to try and encourage you but no, I mean like really though, and then I stopped having guests on.
• 22:49
  Brett: I tried a few other things um, moved it into, like you know, this area, and then we made two chairs and stuff and like it's kind of stagnant.
• 22:58
  Brett: So I'm like, okay, well, how can I change this up?
• 23:00
  Brett: Like maybe people want to hear from other people instead of just me, and so now we have seven guests lined up and this will be the last one for a while where hopefully it's just you know, you and I talking, which I love having you on you're my favorite guest no, you're my favorite guest, but I mean, like it's kind of cool, like to your point, you always have to readjust and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 23:25
  Brett: The the thing that I would say it becomes a problem is if you quit, like that's when it's like okay, well I, unless it's like taking too much time and you really see no future in it, then I think it's okay to be quit and it takes a lot of strength to make that decision.
• 23:42
  Brett: But if you feel like there's something that you can still chase with whatever goals in front of you, readjust because your dreams are worth way more than just giving in to them.
• 23:52
  Brett: And if it takes you a little bit longer to get to that point, then keep going and don't decide to just throw in the towel because you had a couple rough bats or at bats like the future's bright only if you make it that way, and it it requires continual improvement, continual adjusting and trying to keep a positive mindset through the whole thing.
• 24:14
  Brett: And it's not like you're trying to look at the world through rose-colored glasses, it's just like you know.
• 24:20
  Brett: This is where I'm at right now.
• 24:21
  Brett: I'm gonna make the most of it.
• 24:22
  Brett: How can I have the most fun with it?
• 24:24
  Brett: How can I learn the most from this experience?
• 24:26
  Ally: it's like you just have to ask yourself these questions let me ask you this I don't know if I'm jumping the gun, I don't know if you have something, if you're not, if you're leading to this or not, all right, but we're talking about such superficial things right now.
• 24:40
  Ally: We're talking about our race.
• 24:42
  Ally: It really doesn't matter.
• 24:43
  Ally: Talking about the timeline of our house, which we're still going to build at some point.
• 24:46
  Ally: It doesn't matter in the big scheme of things.
• 24:48
  Ally: What about those things that are not just temporal?
• 24:54
  Ally: For example, what about the type of setbacks that are more like a death in the family, or things that are so heavy that you just you're not just readjusting, yeah right, what do you think about circumstances that come up like that, that are life-shattering and you have to accept it as it is?
• 25:15
  Ally: But?
• 25:16
  Ally: But those are way different than what the examples we've been talking about so far.
• 25:20
  Brett: That's fair.
• 25:20
  Brett: Put me on the spot with that big one.
• 25:24
  Brett: This is good.
• 25:25
  Brett: So I mean, a death in the family is horrible.
• 25:31
  Brett: Like loss is never easy.
• 25:33
  Brett: I haven't had to experience it to the degree that you have.
• 25:37
  Brett: But like, yeah, it's incredibly difficult and I've seen families go through that.
• 25:41
  Brett: And I think of like it's incredibly difficult and I've seen families go through that.
• 25:45
  Brett: And I think of like Jordan and his family.
• 25:47
  Brett: And he was 42 years old, he had six kids and now his wife is a single mom.
• 25:56
  Brett: I'm sure she's thinking like I don't want to just accept my fate, like I miss my person and I can't imagine that pain because of how much I love you.
• 26:03
  Brett: Like that has to be insane.
• 26:05
  Brett: And so I think a lot of the times in those situations you have to have hope for a better future, and for me that comes down to my faith, and so I have faith that I will see all those people who I've lost in this life in the next.
• 26:25
  Brett: And that keeps me grounded to at least have hope and perspective that this life isn't the only one that we will live.
• 26:33
  Brett: And so, as painful as those experiences might be, they do teach you things.
• 26:42
  Brett: They do teach you things like you and I have talked about when you lost your dad, like how many lessons came from that and how many people showed up, you know, to his funeral and and said so many great things about, like, what he would do for other people, and like you still feel that pain and it's not an easy thing to feel, but you have the memories of that person and like, no matter how dark the day is getting if I'm saying things that are completely like false, jump in here Cause I haven't dealt with it the way that you have Um, but I think you hold onto the memories and you keep that personal life and you know your, your dad may have passed, but we keep his memory alive through team tim and through talking about him and through celebrating him and and doing his favorite things.
• 27:37
  Brett: Like we'd go out to that one random restaurant in mesa where he'd get the breakfast pancakes I can't remember what it's called but, um, I can just go and do things that he likes and go to his gravestone and celebrate him and like, yeah, it might be a terrible thing for you to have to deal with personally that you lost this person, but what great honor that you have to be able to keep that person alive and to share the lessons that he taught you with others.
• 28:08
  Brett: I don't know if that answers your question, but I think it's just trying to make the most of every situation, no matter how hard they are, like even with us.
• 28:20
  Brett: I'm going to get real personal here in, like me being infertile.
• 28:22
  Brett: Like even with us.
• 28:26
  Brett: I'm gonna get real personal here.
• 28:27
  Brett: And like me being infertile, like we're trying so many different things and you and I want kids so badly, but it's just, we're trying other things and it's it's hard.
• 28:34
  Brett: Like how many times have I come to you and be like I feel like I'm not even a man, like I can't even provide a kid to my wife who signed up to marry me, and that is a hard thing for me to deal with.
• 28:46
  Brett: And then, like the other thing too is like okay, well, if I can't produce my own kids, then we have to turn to like a donor.
• 28:53
  Brett: And that's hard for me too, cause it's like that person, that little kid over there, he doesn't have my dna and that's a hard thing for me to grasp.
• 29:03
  Brett: But again, I can also see the perspective.
• 29:07
  Brett: It's like you know what?
• 29:08
  Brett: We tried so hard having my own kids and now we have a beautiful little baby who might not be my dna, but at least we have them.
• 29:16
  Brett: And, like I think it's just trying to have perspective with each situation we go through and and see what you can learn from it I love it that was a lot.
• 29:30
  Ally: That was a long explanation no, I I love what you said for many reasons and I think you're right that everything is perspective, because you see different people handle grief differently, and I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I do.
• 29:47
  Ally: I have noticed how some families seem to have peace and some families seemed to never come out of their room ever again.
• 29:59
  Brett: Yeah, right, and what do you think the underlying factor for the ones that keep moving forward is?
• 30:07
  Ally: Faith I think I mean, obviously and perspective.
• 30:13
  Ally: I think those two go hand in hand For our family.
• 30:17
  Ally: I think we do everything to try and keep dad alive, yeah, and obviously we can't adjust in the term and like in the way of we can't bring him back, not in this life, right, and so we can't live as if he is, you know, right next to me at all times.
• 30:35
  Ally: However, we can live the life that he provided for us, where he taught me so many lessons and I try to live those lessons every day.
• 30:45
  Ally: And I think, with him being gone although it was like the worst, still, the worst thing that's happened to me, obviously, and I was such a daddy's girl and although it's like still heartbreaking to think of and I was such a daddy's girl and although it's still heartbreaking to think of, I also do feel such an appreciation, as time goes on, for the type of dad I did have.
• 31:06
  Ally: Many people have their dad alive still and he's not present.
• 31:17
  Ally: I had a very present, loving dad who filled my emotional bank account stacked like by billions right that I can always pull from, even now that he's gone and although we can't fix what has been done, although we can't bring him back, I think because of these circumstances I wouldn't be running for sure, like if dad didn't encourage us to do hard things and like flying.
• 31:41
  Ally: Dad was super excited about me flying and he really wanted us to get into aviation, and so it's been really emotional for me, now that I'm an airline pilot, being like he would soak this up and I wish he could see it, but but he encouraged me so much from the other side and I want to live a life that would make him proud and being able to take the lessons he taught me.
• 32:02
  Ally: Live it in my everyday life.
• 32:03
  Ally: We discuss it all the time.
• 32:05
  Ally: We're going to teach our kids these lessons right and so keep it.
• 32:08
  Ally: Keep it holy, almost.
• 32:10
  Ally: Although it was like the worst time ever, I would also say it's one of the most sacred times ever, where it really did shatter my whole universe, and I think you have to hit rock bottom in order to understand what you're capable of yeah and in order to like, rebuild um in a way that would make god proud.
• 32:35
  Ally: And so when we talk about accepting our fate, accepting these circumstances, I think acceptance there's a reason that's part of the grieving process is because you need to accept what's happened to you and you don't need to let it crumble you, but accept it in a way of how is this going to boost me forward in life?
• 32:55
  Ally: It's the worst thing ever.
• 32:56
  Ally: How am I going to use it to kind of slingshot me forward regardless?
• 33:01
  Ally: And I think the way we've done that is implement those lessons.
• 33:05
  Ally: We've kind of taken on the title of doing hard things right, and so I think what everything you said nailed it with being able to crawl out of that dark space and kind of always.
• 33:20
  Ally: I think you can compartmentalize, like you can feel the sadness and you can feel the darkness, but also recognize that that is such a a sacred little box that you can hold on to like no one knows how you grieve and no one knows how you feel, but you can hold on to it and recognize like that's you and your dads or that's you and your person, and you can hold it so sacred and realize this is going to be my little box of motivation.
• 33:45
  Ally: Even all that darkness, even the horrible things that have happened, that can be your little box reminder of, like, what you are able to do, like there's so many good things in the world.
• 33:55
  Ally: Use that little box to mind you of where you don't want to go like, use that motivation moving forward.
• 34:00
  Ally: And I don't know if I'm making sense, it's, I've never really had to explain how I've taken in grief and how I've used it to not my benefit, but used it to move forward yeah and so I'm not sure if I'm making a whole lot of sense.
• 34:16
  Brett: but I think you totally are and sorry, did I cut you off.
• 34:21
  Ally: No.
• 34:22
  Brett: Okay, like, yeah, we can't control what happens to us, we can't control what happens to others, but we control how we respond.
• 34:29
  Brett: And so if you were to think about like you know, you just explain how your dad taught you all these great lessons, and you know, when he passed, you had two choices too.
• 34:41
  Brett: You could either just give up and let life come to you, or you could take the lessons that he learned, which was all about doing difficult things and pushing yourself and being kind to others and serving and being full of love.
• 34:54
  Brett: You could take those lessons and do something with them, because, I mean, we all will go the way of the earth, we'll get eaten by bugs, decay, but none of us are going to be here forever, and so what better way to be remembered by living a life that that person would be proud of.
• 35:18
  Ally: I would add it's okay to crumble for a little bit, like if someone in your life passes, you're not expected to bounce back the next week, go to work and be cheerful.
• 35:27
  Ally: It is okay to sit with your feelings and to feel discouraged and, like you talked about our infertility like I think it's okay to be sad about that.
• 35:36
  Ally: It's okay to be sad that we're not where we want to be, we're not building the family yet that we want.
• 35:41
  Ally: It's okay to be sad that I don't have my dad here during this time, and I think it's okay to feel all the emotions that come with hardship.
• 35:51
  Ally: But I think there's a difference with feeling it, accepting it and then letting it go on, versus taking on the I'm never going to get out of this victim mentality.
• 36:04
  Brett: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Ally: Because that's where you get stuck and that's where you sink, that's where life gets harder, because you just let things pile on top.
• 36:12
  Ally: And now everything that goes wrong, you notice it and you're like oh, and this is happening right, yeah, that's true.
• 36:17
  Ally: You pile it on top of yourself, whereas all the emotions, feel everything that comes with, like the consequences of hardship and setbacks, and then accept it for what it is and then make the adjustments okay.
• 36:32
  Ally: So what are we going to do now?
• 36:33
  Brett: yeah, I love that.
• 36:34
  Brett: I also think about like when I was sick, yeah, and then that quote I mentioned at the beginning, like this had to happen to me and I'm better for it, like those are some of the darkest times I went through.
• 36:47
  Brett: Like I questioned if I was going to live or die a lot and I had to sit with that thought Usually like in the middle of the night I'd be thinking about like is it be soon?
• 37:04
  Brett: like I literally have those thoughts like am I going to die soon?
• 37:06
  Brett: Scary, and how.
• 37:06
  Brett: Like I'm so blessed now to have a healthier body and to be able to be strong and to be able to run.
• 37:13
  Brett: And I think about that quote, like this had to happen to me and I'm better because of it.
• 37:17
  Brett: It's like I know what it's like now to have a body that doesn't work, that struggles to even get out of bed.
• 37:23
  Brett: And now it's like I'm going to use that as fuel to when I'm struggling on a run or a workout.
• 37:29
  Brett: To remember those feelings, to be like at least you know I might be tired today, I might have nothing in me, but at least I'm here.
• 37:37
  Brett: Like at least I'm here.
• 37:38
  Brett: Like at least I'm at the gym.
• 37:40
  Brett: And like there's times where I've told you like you know I'm at the gym but I'm just going through the motions, like just trying to get it done.
• 37:47
  Brett: And it's like that comes from a place of like gratitude for my situation, because I'm no longer in that dark state where I don't know if I'm going to live or die.
• 37:59
  Brett: Like I have treatments now and I'm so lucky to have that, but it taught me to push myself and not to take it for granted ever.
• 38:08
  Brett: So it is interesting looking back the lessons that you learn through these hard things.
• 38:14
  Brett: It's never easy going through them, though.
• 38:17
  Ally: This is kind of a weird metaphor throw it, let's go so you know, we all know, I'm flying an airbus now, right she flies an airbus.
• 38:26
  Ally: You didn't know that so the airbus has a side stick.
• 38:31
  Ally: No more eating the microphone or you're not gonna have me as a guest okay, I'm just kidding.
• 38:38
  Brett: I won't threaten you, I'm just kidding, I won't.
• 38:38
  Ally: I won't threaten you, I'm just kidding.
• 38:40
  Ally: Got a huge mouth.
• 38:40
  Ally: Um no, so we all know I fly an airbus.
• 38:43
  Ally: Now, when you fly an airbus, you have the side stick instead of a yoke yeah like most planes, it's over here on the side and how big is it again?
• 38:52
  Ally: It's small right that was a good size, I don't know like probably the height of my phone oh, okay or no it's kind of flattens out the top, something like this okay, anyway so it's on the side and you're, it feels like you're playing a video game.
• 39:06
  Ally: It's like a little joystick and you're just like flying, like that.
• 39:09
  Ally: It's super weird.
• 39:10
  Ally: Shout out to microsoft flight simulator right and it's a little bit different because sometimes, like other aircraft I've flown, you have a yoke and it's connected to your flight controls by cables so when you pull on it it immediately pulls like your elevator and your different flight controls go up down, left, right, whatever.
• 39:26
  Ally: With the airbus you have a side stick and it, every time you move it, it actually is like sends signals.
• 39:35
  Ally: It's like computer sends signals.
• 39:37
  Ally: It's not cables and so it's a little bit of a delay, and so a common error when people are learning the airbus is you're so used to a direct input.
• 39:45
  Ally: Now it's not direct input, so when you move the the side stick, it takes a few second delay for the plane to respond with the flight controls actually a couple seconds really well, like two seconds okay
• 39:58
  Ally: but it's very it feels very unnatural compared to other planes you fly and so when you put in an input, it sends the signal to tell the flight controls what to do.
• 40:07
  Ally: Common error is because it's not responding immediately, like we're used to.
• 40:12
  Ally: You over correct and you're constantly moving the side stick when in reality you probably bump it like not even a quarter inch one direction and you go back to neutral and it will send a signal and it will do that.
• 40:26
  Ally: It's so unnatural and so every time it's the same.
• 40:30
  Ally: When you're learning, it's so natural.
• 40:31
  Ally: You're going all over the place.
• 40:32
  Ally: You're trying to fly like a normal plane.
• 40:34
  Ally: You're going left, right up down and it's just the whole plane is out of whack and the common thing the instructor say like just let go, like you have to let go of the side stick because you're giving it too many inputs.
• 40:44
  Ally: The plane wants to fly itself and you're trying so hard to hang on to the reins and tell it what to do, when in reality it's smarter than you, it knows what to do.
• 40:53
  Ally: Just let go of it and it will fly itself.
• 40:54
  Ally: And I think about that with real life where sometimes I think like, oh, this is going on, this is.
• 41:00
  Ally: I'm like so overwhelmed there's so many variables, so much is happening, when in reality, a lot of times like, okay, let go relax, things just need to play out how it's going to play out, and then analyze what's going on and then go from there yeah and I think now find the airbus.
• 41:16
  Ally: That has taught me a lot about life, with being able to kind of accept things as they come, put in the input, wait, see the reaction, accept it and then adjust, and that has helped me as a pilot first of all.
• 41:31
  Ally: But it's been interesting to see how that lesson has applied to my real life.
• 41:34
  Ally: Instead of getting overwhelmed, trying to accept everything, trying to fix everything we have such a strong hold on, like how we want our life to go, when in reality life is just going to go how it goes, you can manipulate it in certain ways, like you can.
• 41:47
  Ally: You have agency.
• 41:48
  Ally: You can make decisions of what you want to do for work and stuff like that.
• 41:50
  Ally: Most things out of your control, the big things, the babies, the home, the, the things like that they're not not going to.
• 41:57
  Ally: A lot of it is out of our control and if we're trying to strangle it to be exactly how we want it, it's going to be too many inputs and it's just going to go out of our control.
• 42:09
  Brett: Yeah, that's fair.
• 42:09
  Brett: And then when something happens and something you're planning for doesn't go that way.
• 42:16
  Ally: Devastating.
• 42:17
  Brett: Yeah, exactly, and it's just going to make you spiral and then something else won't happen, and then boom, another take, and then you just pile it up and then you're like oh man, I'm a piece of crap.
• 42:26
  Brett: My life sucks yeah, and you're forgetting all that you have.
• 42:29
  Ally: Right.
• 42:29
  Ally: Then the mindset spirals and so when you let go for what's happening, you can adjust the big things like death stuff.
• 42:42
  Ally: That's obviously per person on how you respond, but I think holding a sacred accepting it and being able to utilize it to your strengths, yeah, and the most odd way that sounds, but I think it makes sense but I think that's what's helped me, I guess, in my life.
• 42:54
  Ally: And what is the phrase?
• 42:55
  Ally: Again, I always forgot a more fatigue fatigue.
• 42:58
  Ally: A more fatigue makes sense of a way to have a more simple, happy life yeah, and I I think another piece that I probably should talk about is gratitude absolutely like gratitude in all situations helps.
• 43:17
  Brett: Like you recognize personally that you have way more than you think.
• 43:20
  Brett: And like you and I have been talking about, like we've been taking l's left and right.
• 43:25
  Brett: This year has not been a great year, but we have each other, we're healthy, we're happy, we have so many great things in our lives that we can easily overlook if we're just focused on the negative and you have to seek out the positive.
• 43:42
  Brett: And for me, an easy hack for that is gratitude.
• 43:45
  Brett: Like there's a lot that we can all be grateful for, that we can thank God for every day, and the more you do that, the more you'll see those patterns in your life of what you have to be grateful for.
• 43:59
  Brett: Like the fact that I can still call my mom and have a conversation with her and all my family, like they're still around for me to do that.
• 44:07
  Brett: That's a great blessing.
• 44:08
  Brett: The fact that I have you and we've been together for three, almost four Sundays in a row.
• 44:14
  Brett: Like with doing distance, like no, it is sad, it's a crappy circumstance, circumstance but it's like no, we're very grateful yeah, we have what we have, and it could be, you know, four weeks without seeing each other, which some people have, and I'm so glad that I don't have that, and I feel bad for people that do right like it's things like that too.
• 44:31
  Brett: You know, it's like, yeah, our situation's not the best.
• 44:34
  Brett: You're in arizona a lot, I'm up here, and if we had it our way, we'd be together all the time.
• 44:40
  Brett: But maybe there's something that we need to learn about being on our own and about relying on one another through distance and, I don't know, trust, yeah, just like.
• 44:50
  Brett: Maybe there's lessons that we need to learn during this process, and I know we'll be better for it in the end, because that's what amorphity is all about love your fate and see where it takes you.
• 44:59
  Brett: So you always have two choices you can learn from something or you can just throw in the towel.
• 45:04
  Brett: I think the latter is worse, so don't do it.
• 45:07
  Brett: But I have one last thing, and then we can wrap up, because I want to bring it home, and this isn't just like philosophy, it's a practice, it's a muscle you have to strengthen and you build it by one decision at a time.
• 45:25
  Brett: You don't need to love pain, but you can love what it produces.
• 45:29
  Brett: You can love the strength you're building.
• 45:31
  Brett: You can love the endurance being forged, you can love the story you'll get to tell.
• 45:37
  Brett: So today, when something goes wrong, big or small, pause and smile and say the words amorphity.
• 45:42
  Brett: Then respond like it's exactly what you needed, because you're the kind of person who shows up, who doesn't crumble, who sees challenges and runs toward it.
• 45:52
  Brett: If you're listening to this podcast, I would assume so You've chosen the path of growth, of strength, of ownership.
• 45:58
  Brett: Ownership, and that's why amorphity isn't just a phrase.
• 46:02
  Brett: It can be a weapon.
• 46:03
  Brett: So sharpen it, use it and always keep getting after it.
• 46:08
  Brett: That was my little poem for amorphity I like it it's a good lesson to live by.
• 46:15
  Brett: I think so too.
• 46:17
  Ally: Key to happiness.
• 46:19
  Brett: Yeah, a lot of ways or understanding.
• 46:21
  Brett: A lot of that stuff and life is unfair and life is messy.
• 46:26
  Brett: It's unpredictable, but we always have the power, like you said with agency, to choose how we respond to things, to choose to make the most of it, and I know it's easier said than done.
• 46:39
  Brett: People are going to probably say, oh yeah, well, what about my daughter who has cancer?
• 46:45
  Brett: Like there are terrible situations out there and you're not going to love that fate, but maybe it's.
• 46:52
  Brett: You love the fact that it's brought your family together or I don't know.
• 46:56
  Brett: I'm not going to speak for that situation because it's a dark one, but there's always things that you can learn from and benefit from and live a better life and become better because of it.
• 47:06
  Ally: Even if it's years down the road.
• 47:08
  Ally: Yeah, it could be like we don't know what the circumstances are.
• 47:11
  Brett: Yeah, we don't know what the timeline of our home is, or the timeline of when we're going to have kids is, but or the timeline of when we're going to have kids is, but we just keep taking one step forward.
• 47:18
  Brett: We look to the future, we have hope and we take it day by day, because if you're doing it, you know, if you're just thinking in the future, it's not going to get you anywhere and you think of the past.
• 47:35
  Brett: You'll live a life of regret.
• 47:36
  Brett: So live now, make your decisions today to make a better future Anything else to add.
• 47:41
  Ally: No, that's great.
• 47:42
  Ally: It's a good reminder.
• 47:42
  Ally: I needed to hear it.
• 47:44
  Brett: Well, we all do so.
• 47:45
  Brett: I appreciate everyone for listening.
• 47:47
  Brett: Please like and rate the show.
• 47:50
  Brett: If you learned something at all, I'd really appreciate it and share this with someone that might be going through it and might just need a little reminder and reassurance that we all go through hard things.
• 48:02
  Brett: Sometimes we can all become better because of them.
• 48:04
  Brett: So until next episode, everyone keep getting after it.