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Wisdom Under Fire: Hustle Culture · Unspoken Career Truths

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  Welcome to Unspoken Career Truths.
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  I'm Lauren Levac Gilbert. And I'm Kyra Wood.
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  And we're here to be the Co workers you can trust.
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  In just 10 minutes, we'll cover the strategies you need, the
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  mistakes to avoid, and the insider secrets no one tells you
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  so you can show up with confidence at work.
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  All right everyone, we are back for another Wisdom under Fire
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  where we talk about a common phrase or saying and we share
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  our thoughts and sometimes we both agree, sometimes we don't.
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  Sometimes I take a random stance and want to rewrite the phrase
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  but. I thought the point was to
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  disagree. That is the point.
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  But sometimes we don't, which is OK.
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  Today's phrase hustle culture and more of like a culture than
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  a phrase, I mean. I'll list me a term.
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  A term. A hustle is a term.
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  Yeah, I'll list some of the sayings we might hear often.
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  Rise and grind, work hard, play hard, just hustle in general.
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  There's a lot of T-shirts about that.
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  So that's what we're talking about.
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  And I have to say I will, I will take I'll take my stance on
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  this. My opinion has changed over the
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  years about this phrase. And I think that's what's really
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  interesting. I would say when I was maybe
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  like five years and took my career, I was like all about
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  like hustle. I actually had like one of the
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  signs on your wall that said hustle.
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  It was like gold and it foil. I was like in it.
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  I was like, yes, like I was going to do all these amazing
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  things. I was going to like start my own
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  company. I like worked a ton.
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  It was I was like in it. I would say that my opinion has
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  changed because I kind of burnt myself out a little bit by just
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  focusing on the hustle. And so I think there's value in
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  the hustle, but it doesn't really address some of the
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  balance and it can be toxic. That's my thought.
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  What do you think, Cara? It's really interesting
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  actually. I definitely think that my
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  relationship with the concept of hustle culture has changed.
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  And I just just had a weekend with some friends that I've
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  known since college and we were discussing just both the hustle
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  culture as well as being in relationships with people who
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  might be fully embracing the hustle culture.
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  And I was the outlier because I am all for it.
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  I actually really love to be super, super into my job and I
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  admittedly define myself a lot of the times by what I'm doing.
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  And I have at different times that has been incredibly
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  difficult, like when I'm changing careers or when I'm
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  not. I don't have, you know, a snazzy
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  title at the moment, but I'm introducing myself at a party.
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  But at the same time it's I, I feel like it, it's something
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  that I really identify with that level of ambition and that level
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  of just like full on lean, dare I say lean in.
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  And so I think I would say that it's really valuable to know and
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  recognize when you're interacting with someone who is
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  kind of bought in and has drink in the kool-aid and values that
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  in another person. And when you're surrounded by
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  it. Because Lauren, to your point,
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  it's not for everyone and it's not for every point in your
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  life. And it also is something that
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  can destroy and burn you out. So how do you, if you are
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  someone like me that's like, Oh my gosh, This is why I got up in
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  the morning. How do you do that in a way
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  that's still sustainable and not the point isn't to burn you out.
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  Like the whole no pain, no gain is not a thing.
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  It's actually interesting, you know, you mentioned the phrase
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  like work hard, play hard. I actually think there's a,
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  there's an idea of balance in that potentially.
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  And so I think I, I, I'm all for hustle culture only if it is
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  something that gives you energy and it's something that you can
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  do sustainably. I agree with that, fully agree
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  with that. I think the the hustle culture
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  of just like constantly push and like keeping up with the Joneses
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  is not the right term because that's not what you would use
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  necessarily in the workplace. But like feeling like you have
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  to do it all and you like can't take a break or you can't relax.
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  And I think what's really interesting, Cara, is knowing
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  you, I would say like you're a super balanced person, but you
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  do hustle. I think it's interesting because
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  I have been, I have had direct employees who have been impacted
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  by how seriously I take my job and I've had to really make sure
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  that I don't project that expectation on them.
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  And a lot of times like there, you know, you can have that
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  toxic boss. And I have sometimes been this,
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  I'm sure I have been this toxic boss to some people because
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  they're like, have these real? I have really high expectations
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  of myself and of everyone on my team.
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  And so if you're in this world where all like work is all and
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  there is no room for mistakes, I think that is a, as we were
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  talking about toxic. But there is something about
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  hustle and caring about what you do.
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  I actually had an editor early on in my college newspaper who
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  would say, let's take the job seriously, but not ourselves.
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  And so I love. That.
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  Yeah, I really love that. Shout out to Scott Sobach.
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  I just, I really love that idea of just, again, taking the job
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  seriously and I love working with people who are also taking
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  the job seriously, but then realizing that in taking the job
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  seriously, you need to allow some flexibility.
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  And so thank you for saying that.
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  I come across as balanced. But like I said, I know that I
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  have been that boss that's holding people accountable and
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  it's not always comfortable for everyone.
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  I have so many thoughts about this, but my first one's going
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  to be I'm going to give a shout out to to what my first boss
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  Cape retain. I remember it was like a
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  snowstorm or something and we were talking about like coming
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  into the office for this like big meeting.
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  And she said to me, she's like, Lauren, we're not neurosurgeons
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  work from home. It's gonna be OK.
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  Like. And that really stuck with me,
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  right? Like, you know, you can care
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  about your job, but at the same time, like you need to be
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  healthy and you need to be safe and you need to make sure that
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  like you're being a human first. So I agree with that.
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  I think the the other thing you brought up was really great,
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  Cara. I mean, I also have like really
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  high expectations of people. I also have really high
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  expectations of myself Whenever I make a mistake, I like wear it
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  like a badge and I like tried and, and I'm like, Oh my gosh,
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  this is a mistake that I made. Like I, I like tick market kind
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  of thing. So when I was a, a, a boss and I
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  had employees, it was really hard for me sometimes because I
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  was like, well, you need to do this and this is when you need
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  to get it done. And this is when we need it.
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  And actually, I feel like being a boss helped me really better
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  understand what that balance looked like, right?
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  Because you have to have more empathy for other people and how
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  they work. And people make mistakes and
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  that's OK. And talking through it and
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  figuring out what makes sense. But that was like a really eye
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  opening piece for me. But I think what really shifted
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  is when I was working like crazy, crazy hours and we just
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  did an episode about buckets. I was ignoring all my buckets
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  and I was like, this is great. Like I'm hustling, like I'm just
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  like pushing through. This is getting amazing.
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  And I was like, I feel fine. And then I just remember getting
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  to a point and just being like, I am so tired.
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  I cannot think straight. And this is just not, this is
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  not what this is. And so to your point, I think
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  redefining what hustle means for you.
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  I consider myself someone who hustles in my job, but I also
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  have very clear boundaries and so that's OK.
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  That could be my hustle. Yeah, and I, I'm thinking of
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  like the metaphor of, you know, you put your own air mask on 1st
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  actually. Like you actually have to,
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  you're no good if you only work the one day and it's the 24
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  hours and then you're exhausted or dead.
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  So, you know, you actually, I think of it as like as much as,
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  oh, I want to give everything to this, some of the giving
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  everything to this is sleeping so that the next day I can make
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  good decisions the next day. And these projects are never,
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  it's never a, you know, sacrifice yourself.
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  I think of like professional athletes, like you have to take
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  care of your body to actually show up on game day and do the
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  best on the field. So, but I, I, there's so many
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  times I think what we're talking about is like, how are you both
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  interpreting and then internalizing the idea of hustle
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  culture? Because if you're internalizing
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  it as I have to keep pace with other people that I see around
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  me and ignore anything that's going else that's going on in
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  order to sort of like show up or be seen, then yeah, that can get
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  toxic really fast. Because everybody's 100% looks
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  differently depending on your experience, your skill level,
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  and also just your energy for the day.
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  And I think the important part about this is if you believe in
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  hustle culture or not, it, it's what's right for you.
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  You're not proving this to anyone else like it.
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  It's defining what hustle means to you.
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  And what hustle means to me is working really hard at my job,
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  but setting boundaries and not exceeding those boundaries.
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  And, and that's fine. I mean, it can be whatever it is
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  that works for you. I think some things that I kind
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  of was thinking about as we were talking about this episode as a,
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  as a topic was like, if you're feeling guilty that you, that
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  you're resting, that's not a healthy thought, right?
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  Because you need to be able to rest and relax.
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  If you're afraid to slow down, then you might fall behind.
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  Like again, that that's not something that's sustainable.
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  So like really understanding what are the thoughts that are
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  going through your head? Are those healthy?
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  Are those going to help you sustain whatever pace you're at
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  now? And also like really being open
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  about conversations about burnout or conversations about
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  balance. I think that's become a lot more
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  prevalent now. I think people have realized
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  that you can't just push, push, push, push, push because we are
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  humans who need to eat, sleep and exercise and have kind of
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  other things that balance us out.
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  Yeah. And I think recognizing kind of
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  knowing like you're talking about boundaries, like I think
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  knowing what kind of culture you're going to be happy with
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  and excited by. I have friends that go into job
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  interviews and say point blank, like, I'm replaceable here.
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  I'm not replaceable at home. So this is my second place.
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  This is not the most important thing to me.
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  And like I said, for me, I love showing up at an office or a
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  place where everyone's really taking the work seriously.
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  When I have people who are kind of like not as passionate as I
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  am about kind of like producing good work, it, it's demotivating
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  for me. So again, that I am like, I'm
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  all in for the hustle culture. But then I, I treat my rest as
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  part of my work. It it helps sustain me to do
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  work the next day. I love that and typical or in
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  fashion. I'm going to rewrite the phrase
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  to say define your hustle. So that's kind of my twist on
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  that, on that hustle culture. So just key take away, there's
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  really no problem with working hard and hustling, just making
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  sure that you're defining it for yourself and you're finding
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  balance and you're doing things that are sustainable for your
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  well-being. Finding your balance, defining
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  productivity, potentially setting the boundaries if you
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  need it, and just doing it for you.
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  And making sure that whatever you're doing is working for you
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  and not to prove to other people or to kind of keep up, because
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  that's never going to be something that will fulfill you.
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  Yeah, totally. OK.
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  Thanks everyone. That's a wrap.
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  Thanks for joining us on Unspoken Career Truths.
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