Latest / The Salty Pastor / Upstream or Downstream [Ep. 112]
Transcript
- EP 112 Doug: [00:00:00] Well, he said, what you believe is one of the most important things about you. And let's say, uh, this is a perfect example or an illustration of this. And that is as people who work with those who are chemically addicted, like alcoholics and things of that nature. And they all say the same thing when they come in is that, uh, no one will ever kick their habit until they believe that they are not an alcoholic. Right. You see? I see. I can not drink and be okay. So that's powerful belief. Well, Jesse: [00:00:36] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Salty Pastor Podcast, a podcast designed to help you grow your faith and grow your understanding of the world. On Tuesdays, we spend a lot of time in the Bible studying what we're going to be discussing on Sunday, reading the verses that are going to be referenced by the pastor or the speaker that week. And then Thursdays, we take those verses. We take those ideas that we discussed on Tuesday and really dive into them and see practical applications in today's world. And how they may be affected. So we can't do this podcast without this very own salty pastor himself. Dr. Douglas Peake. Doug: [00:01:10] Hey everybody. It's so good to be with you again, I was off for the month of July. Now I'm back and excited and refreshed, and it's really good to just think about how much I enjoy being here with you each and every week, Jesse and I just think that, uh, it's great that the Lord has provided the tech and the opportunity for us to help you really know, what you believe, why you believe it so that you can think for yourself, you make your decisions, chart your course gives you also a little bit of guidance in how to navigate all the craziness going on in this world. So I'm so glad that I'm here with you. And I'm so glad that I have an opportunity to do this. And I'm excited about our current series that we are in at this moment Jesse: [00:01:52] We are doing a Get Up and Go series, which has been so fun, just because it's given us such a wide breadth too. To really talk about all these practical things. And I think that's what I like the most about it is summer. We're out running and we're doing so many things. It's nice that we can do a series where it's like you come in and they all have a similar theme of being practical, but they're all about. You know, you don't have to hear the previous one to really kind of get there. Doug: [00:02:16] You can pick any time. Jesse: [00:02:18] You can drop in and out. And each one of them is kind of a refined little tip of like, here's how you can grow your faith and be more active in your faith. And this week Zach's preaching and he's talking about prayer, um, which I think is. It really should be the beginning point of all things. I think prayer is almost an afterthought for a lot of people. It's like, you kind of get to the end of the day or you kind of get to the end of your morning routine and you're like, Doug: [00:02:41] Jesus, take the wheel. Jesse: [00:02:42] Yeah. Oh, I should. I should. Doug: [00:02:44] Uh, I'm already in the spin, the cars flying off the road, Jesse: [00:02:47] I'm going to pray now Doug: [00:02:48] Jesus take the wheel. Jesse: [00:02:49] Yeah. And so I think, I think it needs to be more of a beginning point rather than the, oh, I'm in my worst situation yet. Now I'm going to come to God. And I think that's where a lot of people come into prayer at is when things are bad rather than preventative maintenance. Yeah. It's like your car. It's like, don't take it to, don't wait to go get the oil checked or the engine checked until the car's already blowing up and on fire. Maybe do it. Doug: [00:03:18] That's a little bit of our tendency, but the basic principle here is, you know, is prayer an upstream thing or is it a downstream thing? What kind of a biblical principle when you really study the New Testament is. Uh, the authors, these apostles, and these people that walk with Christ, what did Christ himself teach about prayer? Was it upstream or was it downstream? Jesse: [00:03:40] Well, what would your definitions of upstream or downstream. I think that's probably where we need to start. Cause I, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Doug: [00:03:50] Well, I guess when you really think about it, you boil it down as objective as possible. We live in a cause and effect universe, you know, everything's cause and effect. Uh, basic Newtonian physics and time is cause and effect. You can't go back in time. You know, you can't go forward in time. It's just something happened. And then immediately, Jesse: [00:04:06] Well the movies say we can go back and forth. Doug: [00:04:08] And so we live in a cause and effect universe. And if we live in a cause and effect universe, this is our reality. Then that also means that ideas matter because ideas come from somewhere and those ideas. Cause and effect, you see some, there's an outcome. And we often live in the downstream of ideas and this is where the effects of ideas impact our daily lives. It's like, you know, most people just, uh, particularly in America, they just want to be left alone. That's a very big, that's a big Idaho vibe side. Just let me do my thing. And then they don't get bothered until they see like gas go from $2 and 40 cents to $4 a gallon. Right. And then they're like, okay, now this, this is I'm living in the effect, but the reason why gas has gone from $2 and 50 cents, In Idaho to $4 is because there was an idea that was implemented months and months and months ago. And that has caused the market to shift and the price to go up. So we tend to live in the downstream. However, if you want to change the effect of the downstream. You should put your best effort, not all your effort, but your best effort on the upstream and prayer. And particularly the work of the church is all about an upstream endeavor. It's where our, our focus is on the upstream. So that. Uh, we can, uh, you know, push the downstream effect to something, uh, away from something negative to something positive. And so that's what I mean by upstream versus downstream, we live in the downstream. But if we really want to change things, if you want to change your life, if you want to change your, your marriage, if you want to change your career, if you focus on the upstream, then that has a tendency to impact the downstream. Jesse: [00:06:15] Right. And so that's kind of the, I mean, it's very similar to, you know, why dams are built. Um, For like farmers and stuff is like, if they're, if their crops are getting washed out because the river is getting too much water, when the snow melt happens, rather than them being out by their field, trained to bail water out of the field. If they go upstream and build and build a dam to, to negotiate how much water's coming down. It saves them that hassle of being up at three in the morning, trying to bail water out of their field or their house or whatever might be near that creek. And so I think prayer's very much a prevented, I don't want to say preventative maintenance, but it's very much a thing that allows us to save. It allows us to get ahead of the problems or at least be more prepared for the problems. Cause we're, you know, God never promised us we were going to have an easy life. If we just pray every day, he's not saying you'll never have a bad thing happen to you. Well, your perspective on what's happening and how you deal with it definitely changes when you've been really immersed in prayer and having and understanding Doug: [00:07:22] Prayer. You know, I've always said what you believe is one of the most important things about you. And let's say, uh, this is a perfect example or an illustration of this. And that is as people who work with those who are chemically addicted, like alcoholics and things of that nature. And they all say the same thing when they come in is that, uh, no one will ever kick their habit until they believed that they are not an alcoholic. Right. You see, I, I can not drink and be okay. So that's powerful belief. Well, they live in the downstream, right. But until they change that upstream belief and work on that, they'll never be free from the addiction, but it works that way. And everything thing like in your marriage, you know, if you guys fight about something all the time, there's some thing that you're always arguing about. You don't see eye to eye drives a wedge that you're living in the downstream. Well, you're not going to fix your problem in the downstream. Jesse: [00:08:13] Right? Doug: [00:08:14] Right. You've got to go back upstream and you've got to do the work there and then that will change the downstream. And it's that way in politics. It's in our cultural, uh, slide that we have right now, it's in our, uh, educational system. It's in, it's in everything is that we live in the downside downstream, where you have all the impacts, but if you want to change things and you really want to make a difference, just like prayer is an upstream endeavor. We have to focus on the upstream. Primarily. Jesse: [00:08:48] So, I mean, you've talked about these like politics, some cultural, um, representations of this. Do we have historical evidence of these or is this just like a kind of now thing happening? Or do we have historical. Doug: [00:09:01] Um, it's everywhere. I mean, as student of history, uh, it's just everywhere. Let's just, I mean, there's so much to choose from, but let's, uh, we can, we could start with the Roman empire, you know, in the Roman empire, uh, back in the first century, you know, it was one of the greatest progenitors of slavery, you know, slavery was not an ethnic thing. You know, it was a social thing. And, and so there was all this slavery and so, but what happened is Christianity ended slavery in Rome. Um, and the way they did, but they didn't do that by going and saying stop slavery right now, what they did is they worked on the upstream, you know, through prayer and growth, they led more and more people to Christ more and more people came to Christ fi you know, whether they were slaves or whether they were Praetorians they're in the military or their political leaders or in the Senate, or wherever in the hierarchy that they were more and more and more and more people came to Christ, a lots and lots of women came to Christ. Tremendous influence. And what happened is then because they all came to Christ, they all adopted the value that all human beings have value in the eyes of God. And then slavery was ended in the Roman empire, but let's bring it more, uh, Jesse: [00:10:09] Maybe not that far back. Doug: [00:10:10] Not that far back. Yeah. Like, okay. So there's a really big deal in America. You always talk about the American revolution, right? And, uh, it was the birth of our country, the birth of our nation, all these great values and principles. And everybody studies this in school and all this kind of stuff. But what, what never is taught in school because of the secularization and secularization has been used by groups of people, elitists and progressives in our nation over the last 60 years. In order to go upstream, see, they went upstream and they said, if we change what we teach eventually downstream, we're going to have this. And that's what we see going on at every level in our society. But for instance, the thing that they don't teach anymore is that yeah, the American revolution happened. It was a phenomenal thing, but they don't talk about the great awakening in the American colonies that happened prior to that, because between them. 1725 and 1765. They signed the Declaration of Independence in 17 76, Jesse: [00:11:15] 6 Doug: [00:11:16] That's right. So in this 50 year period, leading up to it, there was what they call. It was such a massive revival and turning back to God and particularly Protestant Christianity, meaning Jesus Christ. There was massive revivals, massive turning to God that happened in the 50 years prior to that, the, some of the greatest preachers, George Whitfield, John Wesley. Jonathan Edwards, who wrote the most famous sermon called "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". And, uh, what they did is they started this and then there was this thing called the black robe regiment. And no one's ever heard of it, but in England it was a huge deal. And it was everybody in the monarchy and the ruling class and all the loyalists that were living in the colonies amongst the British military is that they were the black robe regimen. There wasn't people running around guerrilla warfare, wearing black robes. It was because of the clergy. The preachers wore black robes when they preached and they, they, they called them. This is a term, uh, it was a derogatory, uh, derogatory term. It was an insult because they felt that the clergy regarded were regarded these black robe clergy regarded as the chief agitators of the rebellion. For the revolution. So this is all going on. All right. So what happens is upstream. There's a great awakening spiritually. And what happens is then you have preachers and pastors who are talking about Liberty and Freedom. Well, where does the idea for Liberty come from? It comes from our Liberty that we receive by being freed from sin, through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so. And then when you see things like in first Peter, where it says, God is not slow about his promises, but he desires all men, all people to come into repentance and for God, so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him. Well, what does whosoever mean? That seems like a pretty blanket invitation. So, so what happens is it starts to really play with these, these societal hierarchical things and at that time in monarchies. And so that was a very big deal. Well, what happened is all of this started, the churches were doing the upstream work, but the downstream work was the American revolution. And this is what's really amazing is when you go back, can you look at all the revolutions that took place, particularly in the British empire, when they were at the height of their powers, they were the Naval superpower. Particularly during this time, the whole notion that the sun never said on the... Jesse: [00:14:00] British empire Doug: [00:14:01] because it controlled so much of the world is do you know how many little revolutions they were? And so many of them failed, but this one didn't. And the question is why? Well, they're one of the reasons why is because when George Washington first started fighting the revolutionary war, it took seven years before it was over. And we lost all the first battles we lost and lost and lost. So where does the tenacity and the perseverance and the all that come from? Well, if you're just doing this because you want a better deal on your taxes, that kind of runs out of gas after maybe a year. Right. You know, so what sustained it over time? Well, it was this great awakening, this ingrained passion and conviction that was deeply spiritual, deeply powerful that we were created for liberty, you know, Patrick Henry, give me Liberty or give me death. So these people were willing to die. And when you look at the the people who signed the Declaration of Independence, you look at those 52 names and what they suffered through the American revolution. Unbelievable. They, you know, their family members were, uh, lost. Many of them died. Many of them, had children killed and murdered their, uh, their fortunes gone, their property gone on massive sacrifices for the Liberty. So that was the first great awakening though, that brought about the American revolution. And if there wasn't a great awakening, there would have been no strength of conviction. See downstream. Uh, you see it again. It's really interesting because then in 1860's, we fought the civil war over ending slavery. Right? And that's where the emancipation proclamation took place. One of the biggest tumultuous times. Cause there was reconstruction after that. We had to rebuild the entire economy of the south on a totally different labor structure right after that was the women's right to vote. Women's suffrage started in. 1800's and then in like 1910 or so finally it was passed into law, the right to vote. So what's interesting is, well, what happened prior to that? You know, well, there was the second great awakening and it started in the late 1700's and went all the way up to 1835. And this is where he had Thomas Campbell, Alexander Campbell, Barton W .Stone, and a whole bunch of others. And what's really interesting is. In the, in the 1800's, like 1810 to 1830, 1840, the restoration movement was the most powerful, fastest growing movement in the United States. Religiously speaking about Christianity. And here's, what's really fascinating. It was built on three basic things. The first thing it was built upon was the S the, uh, uh, authenticity of the scriptures. The Bible and the Bible only let's get back to the Bible. Let's get away from denominational creeds. Let's get away from all this extra stuff. It's just the essentials of the faith. You know, who is Jesus? What, what did he do for us? How do we know him? What's salvation, you know, just real basic things. The second thing that it was built upon too, is unity. Is built on unity together. Yeah. Always being together and they would say back then there were so many denominations that were birthed out of the first. Great awakening. Well, in this one, they were saying, let's get rid of all these creeds and get rid of all this stuff and let's just have a single church. You know, let's restore it back to the first century model. And so what's really interesting is then we go to the civil war. And what was the primary goal of us going to war? Because what did the south do that precipitated the civil war? Jesse: [00:17:52] They seceded. Doug: [00:17:53] They seceded. So they divided it. You see, so where did this notion that we had to stay unified come from you see, and you could see it birthed in the second great awakening. One of the interesting things is that, uh, Foothills Christian Church, uh, our history, you know, we're, uh, gosh, 90, some years old, you know, we started in 1925. We come out of our early influences and a part of our affiliation has always been the restoration movement. And one of the leaders, which is, uh, Alexander Campbell, But he was known for his, he would travel through the south, debating everybody about how slavery was unbiblical. And that's what he, that's how he became really known. Cause they would publish these debates. They would write them down, publish them and then these things were best-sellers. And so when a lot of people don't realize they don't teach us in school anymore, is that of lot of the, uh, civil war. Uh, the issue of abolition of slavery was a theological debate happened. Okay. But the second grade awakening started all of these intellectual societies, all of these groups, all of these, uh, uh, organizations that ultimately came up with these really powerful intellectual and rational basis of why slavery was wrong. And, and so the abolitionist movement was a hundred percent birthed in the church, ran through the church. All about the church. And then ultimately, because of this great awakening, the second one, it ended up in the emancipation proclamation. And so now I could keep going on and on and on, but what's really interesting is you see the upstream downstream pattern here is that everybody focuses on the downstream American revolution, civil war, but what people don't really realize is the upstream of everything that happened, that led to that. Jesse: [00:19:52] Right. Doug: [00:19:52] You see? And so upstream is really, really important, particularly when it comes to cultural and political movements, because what a lot of people don't realize is that politics is a hundred percent downstream, right. And it's downstream of culture. Right culture though, is downstream of your institutions and what their core values are. And then institutions are downstream of what humans and citizens are thinking and believing and doing. Right. So that, and that's where the church, is called the function the most. Is in the upstream at the very top of the, the, the spring, the wellspring and the fountain were to be right there because what we focus on, what you believe. What you're thinking and what you're doing. And then that influences the institutions, right? Because if an institution is filled with people who are corrupt and they have no ethics and they have really weird ideas, then what are they going to pump out of that institution? Whether it's an official political institution, like, uh, the Department of Justice or something of that nature or, or our, uh, educational department, or what if it's Hollywood.. You know, Hollywood's an institution. Jesse: [00:21:18] Yep. Doug: [00:21:18] Right. And so what are they going to pump out? And then those things that they pump out influence culture, right. And then culture then influences politics. But we'd seem to put all of our energy and all of our effort in politics, because that's what we live in. You know, it's like the floods thing is that, well, you know, my bed is floating down the river at three o'clock in the morning. And so obviously that's your greatest concern, but somebody somewhere said, well, maybe if we build a dam up there where we can irrigate. More property. We get a more prosperity, more people can eat off the fat of the land, and we don't have flooding in the spring and drought in the fall. Right. And so they, you know, and you could say most people were saying, I don't have time to build a dam. I don't have, I don't have the money to invest in. I'm not interested in doing that. I'm I'm I got my crops. I got my thing. I gotta do my thing right here right now. But by, by talking these people into investing in building a dam, what did it end up doing? It blessed everybody. And then downstream, what did it do? It changed everything. Jesse: [00:22:28] Correct. Doug: [00:22:29] So that's the concept of what prayer does and what the work of the church does, you know, because what did Jesus say? He said, when he cleaned out the temple, he said, the Lord says my house will be a house of what prayer. That's what he said. So we're to be prayer people and like Zach was talking about, and all these different ways to change the upstream. And if enough of us are doing it and enough of us are investing in it, then ultimately we're going to see all this downstream impact. Jesse: [00:23:00] Well, and I think it's, I mean, you always hear that phrase of you need to study history, so it doesn't repeat itself or whatever. Right. Um, and that's very much kind of what we're doing, but I don't think a lot of people go deep enough. They're like, oh yeah, I know the civil war happened or, oh, I know the revolution happened, but you didn't, if you don't get the context, you don't get upstream of it. You just know, Hey, this it's, you know, hurricane started and it wiped out, you know, new Orleans, but that really started yeah. Way Doug: [00:23:31] out in the ocean or Jesse: [00:23:33] the Atlantic ocean, you know, things of like, you know, we could have built up these, what are those called? The things that break the waves. Basically collapsed in new Orleans because they had been neglected, but things like that were Doug: [00:23:46] Levies. Jesse: [00:23:49] Um, and so it's like in Doug: [00:23:51] the levee was dry Jesse: [00:23:52] The levee was dry., Doug: [00:23:54] sorry, old McClain tune so Chevy to the levy, but the levy Jesse: [00:23:58] was dry. But the levy was dry.. Um, so it's just, it's those things where it's like, okay, yeah, I know that happened, but it's like, you're not really. You're just looking at the impact. You're not looking at how it got there, right? And you're saying in our lives, you and Zac,, you're talking about, you know, we need to go further upstream. We need to be upstream as a church, be upstream, influencing the downstream, but also in our lives, we need to be living in that prayer life upstream. And that will influence our downstream of our daily lives. Doug: [00:24:30] Yeah, exactly. And if you're a parent, you know, everything you do is upstream. You know when you're, when you're sitting there with your five-year-old and you're trying to get them to follow a schedule. It, it may seem like a real struggle, power struggle with them, but you're up, you're doing upstream work. So Jesse: [00:24:46] upstream work, Doug: [00:24:48] Don't forget because it will pay off. And I'll tell you why I've talked to Kim cross, you know, our parenting expert. And she's always like, you know, so many people come to me when their kids are 14 or 15 and they want to fix it. And it's like, that's, that is so far downstream. Right. You know, and that is, is that your 14 year old Jesse: [00:25:08] Bailing water out here? Doug: [00:25:09] There's things you can do, but it's really tough to say, but 14 year olds are doing what they were. They were, uh, patterned their thought life on when they were five. See that there's the link and all research shows. This is that kids learn that there's a right and a wrong between the ages of three and five years old. Right. So that's the best time upstream work of no, yes, no, you know, kind of a thing learning right from wrong, but, um, uh, prayer is a hundred percent upstream and it's more powerful than we realize, because it's all about, uh, changing. The, the effect that rolls down, you know, for, for instance, um, uh, this may, this may sound kind of strange, but for me personally, as a Salty Pastor, uh, if someone were to come up to me and say, are you this, I hear that as an identity statement, you know? And so it's an, are you a free market capitalist person? Do you believe in, you know, they say, are you a free market person? And I would say, no, I would say, I am a pastor called by Jesus Christ and he is my Lord and savior. And he has called me to be passionately concerned about poverty of people. One of my primary concerns is to ease the suffering of the poor. I am called to do that, and I am committed to doing that. That's why Foothills, unlike many other large churches. Uh, we have a massive food pantry and benevolence ministry, and we have a clothing ministry and we have foster care nights. And we, I mean, we just, it goes on and on and on all the stuff that we do to help ease the suffering of the poor. And it's because of this conviction. Because of that, I am a hundred percent dedicated to the free market capitalist system. Free market capitalism has reduced poverty faster, quicker than any other economic system in the history of the world. Anyone who wants to adopt socialism or communism, they're not concerned about the poor. All history, you don't have to read that far back that communism and socialism propagate. Poverty and suffering and because I want to ease the suffering of the poor and the outcast. I w I want as much free market capitalist to go to those people as possible. People who are communists and socialists, if they were concerned about the poor, then they would be free market capitalist, but they're not. So they're driven by an ideology of power, not an ideology that comes upstream from a passionate, whatever it takes commitment to help ease the suffering of the poor. So you see. That is an explanation of how upstream downstream works, right? Is that because I'm committed to Christ and these are his values, that are my values. Then I want to go out and I want to find whatever is the most efficient, the most powerful way to alleviate the suffering of the poor. Does that make sense? Jesse: [00:28:37] Yes. Doug: [00:28:38] So it's, it's very similar in the medical field too. You know, I'm not a physician. I may have a doctor after my name, but I can not prescribe medications and I don't really know anything about it. What I am is a pastor in the kingdom of Jesus Christ. I'm called to serve him and him alone. He's the ruler of my life .And he is passionate about the sick and the infirmed. He says in Matthew chapter 25, he tells a parable about the sheep and the goats. And he says to the goats, he says, when I was sick, you didn't help me. You know, you didn't comfort me. And so I, I want to be a sheep, not a goat. And so I always want to comfort the sick. Therefore, I pray for people. I anoint people with oil and I support everyone in any way possible. Helping pay medical bills or whatever we can so they can access every modern scientifical, scientific medical intervention, to improve your health that you can. Um, because I'm a follower of Christ. I'm concerned about the COVID pandemic, pandemic, and tremendously I'm really, uh, overwhelmed by the impact that it's had on people's lives. People. I know people who've gotten sick, super, super sick. We know some people that have died from COVID. We know the impact it's had on their family. People's businesses devastated by COVID. I'm really concerned about all this because in upstream, Christ is concerned about these things. I am concerned about these things. I personally think that the vaccine is a modern day scientific miracle. I'm amazed at how quickly it was developed and how it's been made available to everybody. Um, I think that's a good thing because I'm a follower of Christ and I believe in the doctrine of non-coersion and I have zero problem with anyone who does their research and chooses not to get it. I'm fine with that. I don't have any problem with that at all. And so. Um, uh, because I have an upstream mentality. See downstream mentalities people. They only focus on the here and now in. And one of the things that will happen is in pandemics and tragedies and hurricanes and, and wars and in pandemics is, is that control wants to go up and people want to force everybody else. We forget the liberties and freedoms that we have. And once those are gone, there's only one way to get them back. Revolution. You know, and I'm not so sure it could revolutions or bloody nasty, horrible, horrible things. Right. So if we do enough work on the upstream, maybe we can influence that towards the good and not allowing our, I feel like our country is totally bifurcating, meaning it is, it's not just polarized in opinion. It's actually polarizing in, in how we live each and every day. Case in point. Now, if you are really politically one way you want to move to California, you know, so some people are moving to California for that. So it's getting more and more that way. And then other people are going, I'm moving to Utah or Arizona or Texas or, Idaho. And so those states are getting more politically red. And so, so people are now self-selecting and where they lived based on their politics. Now that didn't happen before it used to be based on economics or quality of life. Right, right. But now we're doing it on that people do, who are they going to date? Who are they going? What, and now it's getting to the point of, uh, I'm going to pick my church based on my politics. And I'm like, okay, Is this really a good idea. Jesse: [00:32:19] Right? Doug: [00:32:20] Where it is, because if we want a revolution, if we want civil war, then that's exactly what we're going to get, because what we're saying now, and I have to be totally honest. Yeah. I hear it coming from one side more than another side, is that is unless you agree with us and unless you see it way, you're not allowed to speak. You're not, you're going to be de-platformed. You're not allowed to vote. You're not allowed to exercise your own Liberty. You're not allowed to do that. You have to do it this way. Well, all that's do you honestly think if you hold that position, that you're going to force people to do what you want and everybody's just a sheep. Who's going to do what you want. It doesn't work that way. History's never, ever worked that way. Jesse: [00:33:04] Right. Doug: [00:33:05] These people that are forced that way, they're like. Yeah. Um, no. And then that, that rebel, that, that revolution sentiment happens. A lot of people aren't, aren't aware and I'm, I'm analyzing right now. I'm just seeing, this is what I'm seeing. And like in the, the last time we voted back in 2020, there was something like 33 counties in Washington, Eastern Washington, Eastern Oregon, that voted to secede from their states and join Idaho. I mean 33 counties voted and passed.. We want to do this. I'm like, my goodness. Um, so what I see is us getting more polarized and that always ends up where, in revolution, right. You know, right now it's a cold civil war that we have, and that is people just throwing barbs. But when I saw the riots in 2020, and I saw these other things happening, you know, what I started to see is, yeah, it's not a cold war anymore. It's becoming active. And so I guess the point in all that I'm trying to make here is that what's the upstream influence on that is that we is a church. If we invest all of our resources as followers of Christ, first in the church, I'm not saying don't give to politics or anything, but if we are tying our best time, our best amount of dollars. Our best amount of service up there. Then what we're going to do is we're going to have more people adopting the values, that influence institutions that influence a culture that influenced politics and then influence the downstream. In other words, what the church is all about is asking adults to enter the room. And saying, we see where this is going. This is not healthy for our country. You can't have a country like that anymore. As John Locke said, we have to have a social contract, a social agreement. We don't have that anymore. We're losing that. And that's the danger in this bifurcation. So everything I think about the church is, is upstream. Prayer is all about upstream and prayer is the personification of what the church is called to be the people. We are the people of prayer, because prayer is, uh, uh, changes, belief, it changes conviction, it brings knowledge and wisdom and revelation. And what prayer does then is it translates. Action and behavior. And then that is what ultimately changes the downstream effect. Jesse: [00:35:36] Well, those are some heavy thoughts pastor your first Thursday, back in a while, and you came out swinging. Um, I think we have a lot to think about as far as what we're doing with our prayer life and how important it is and how important ideology upstream is affecting us downstream. So, um, I encourage you guys as always with this podcast, this is meant for you to really. Um, start discussions with your friends, family, or even just people at a coffee shop, because you're not going to be able to refine what you believe and really understand what you're thinking about certain things until you start talking about them. If you're just sitting in a hole. By yourself. You're just going to kind of get into this loop and you're never going to really have outside opinions, outside discussions to really challenge and identify what you do really believe what that thing you are willing to stand up for is. And so you need to be out having these discussions and that's what the podcast is here. We're having a discussion. We're not saying, Hey, this is 100% the way you have to act and do things right. But it's going to help you decide what that is. And maybe it's. Something we're suggesting maybe it's something completely different, but you won't know until you start thinking and discussing that. So, um, really refine what you're doing by having discussions going out, either whether it's on social media, having coffee, whatever your preferred interactions are, but have discussions because you're not going to refine that blade until you really know. So we really love having you guys here with us every Tuesday and Thursday, obviously tune in on Sunday to hear Zac kind of wrap up this section on prayer. And why it's so important in your life. Doug: [00:37:10] Sunday, Jesse: [00:37:10] Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, Doug: [00:37:12] Sunday. Jesse: [00:37:12] Did I say Sunday? You said Tuesday. No. I said we have Tuesdays and Thursdays thoughts turn in on Sunday. Doug: [00:37:19] I'm messing you up Jesse. Jesse: [00:37:20] It's okay. We're excited that you guys are here and if you want to tune in on Thursdays as well. That's great. So thank you guys Doug: [00:37:28] Be here on Sunday. Jesse: [00:37:29] Be here on Sunday and beautiful Boise Idaho here at Foothills Christian Church. Doug: [00:37:34] Blessings