Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 Micro-communities, Spotify music videos, and anti-marketing

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🎧 Micro-communities, Spotify music videos, and anti-marketing · Open Tabs

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to OpenTabs.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: We just couldn't wait to start getting into it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get my little intro spiel out of the way and then we'll hop in.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to OpenTabs where we break down the stories taking up space in our tabs,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: our feeds, and our brains.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And polka dots is one of the things taking up space in my closet, at least.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was complimenting Megan's top and she has a prediction
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: that Brown polka dots are going to be all their age this fall, so keep an eye out.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so first topic I wanted to chat with you about today is
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: a new up-and-coming social media app, Yo.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And their whole shtick is that there are no ads and no algorithms on their platform.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So right now it's a private social media network.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: They just did A big fundraising round.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: They've raised a total of $20 million.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the language they are using is micro-communities.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about fostering micro-communities,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: small groups of friends or families to share photos, videos, and messages.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then since they don't advertise, they make their money through subscriptions.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you can pay,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's $3.99 a month to get more like personalization features
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: on your profiles.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can get access to games and more storage.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to chat with you about it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I thought the micro communities was really interesting.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Megan,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you were way ahead of like the Rising trend with like group chats
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: and things.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like two or three years ago you said that you thought
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: the group chat could like take over social media.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's like happening now.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, basically we're seeing a move towards DMs.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was noticing that Apple was quietly doing a lot to make
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: the group Chat features so much better.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now look at it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like everything's organized.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can add backgrounds and like they've just added so much.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they've definitely linked into this.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you also,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think something that gets slept on,
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: especially coming from our American POV a lot is WhatsApp
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: and how huge WhatsApp is globally.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a meta Facebook product.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so this,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I see this as less of like, Oh,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: this is going to replace Instagram and more of this is a direct competitor
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: for WhatsApp specifically.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that is where they actually do have a chance.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a very strategic, I feel like play at one of Meta's weak points right now.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cause they've been so focused on AI and so focused on the metaverse and now
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: the glasses that I feel like WhatsApp has kind of fallen on the back burner.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think this is a really smart move though.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am a little,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hesitant to say that people are going to adopt a whole new, a whole new thing.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am very resistant to a new app.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like the last time I tried a new app I think was Be Real and like,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was years ago at this point.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really like the question I wanted to talk to you about is like,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we might be beyond like there being any room left for
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: a new social media app.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like every year there's like,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: since the pandemic,
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: we've seen attempts with like Clubhouse and like you mentioned,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Be Real and LemonAid.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like these platforms will get like niche-ish.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: their own niche,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: little dedicated followings, but they don't seem to be able to, like, scale.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's also Geneva and Discord.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's so many,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: like, places that are doing this that have not become, like, the new go-to.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it, you're right,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: it's just such a crowded space that I'm not optimistic that this can be,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: like, a huge contender.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I always say if nothing else,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: new apps are indicative of where there's appetite in the market for things.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is definitely hitting on things that people are sick of,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: which is algorithmic feeds and not being able to talk to their friends specifically
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: and not seeing their friends' content.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And being served so many apps.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, like,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: there's a desire to talk to people,
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: to be in these microgroups and communities,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: but there's also this feeling that the way
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: that you're doing it now could be improved, which I think is fair.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am curious if Yop...
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Stands the test of time,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: like how that no algorithms, particularly like no ads, no advertising will go.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like these companies...
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: They start making money.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: They start getting more and more users.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then it always leads to an increase in advertising on the platform.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was just talking like venting with some of my friends about Pinterest
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: and like how we love Pinterest or have loved Pinterest for so long.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's getting harder and harder or more frustrating to use because
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: at least mine is overrun with Amazon.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I come to Pinterest because I don't want Amazon.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want the exact opposite of Amazon.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And even thinking about how you could make the ads work harder for the customer,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think with Pinterest,
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: and it might not be like this recently because I've honestly stopped using it
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: as much because it's just harder to use,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: but Ads weren't pinnable in the same way that other things were.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So like you would go to click on something and you're like, oh, I like that in its ad.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like takes you to the website and you can't just pin it to your board.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why won't you just let me pin this to my board?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because like sometimes if I really liked it,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would like go to the website, use my plugin to pin it to the board.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you're creating steps for me that it's like I'm trying to engage
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: with this ad that you've given me in a way that I want to.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Pinterest sucks.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing is,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Pinterest has so much potential to be good,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: and I loved Pinterest for such a long time, so like...
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like Pinterest doesn't have to suck as much as it is, you know?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: another,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: since we're vending about Pinterest,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I use it,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say my main use for it now is when I'm getting my nails done and I'm like,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know what I want and then I need a picture to show the person.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so much just like Amazon press-on sets.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, this is not what I'm looking for.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're actively not serving me Like I've never bought press on nails and I'm not going to.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I being served them right now when I'm like,
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: like, you know, tell me what the latest color is.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like upsell me on like a nail polish, like a salon.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so out of touch with like what you're actually doing.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I have that annoying feature.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you click on an ad, it's still the case on Pinterest.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It just takes you to the external website and you can't pin it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, like, trying to have my fun, relaxing Pinterest time literally, like, two days ago.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's, like, after work.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my screen time before I force myself to, like, close before bed and read a physical book.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to relax.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it happened, like, five times in a row where I clicked on something to pin it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it tried taking me to an external website.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is my, like, curating time.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to curate a vibe right now and you're not letting me and I had to log off.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: You should read this for the people at home, Eva.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Fran just commented,
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: what I don't get is how Pinterest was perfectly usable when I used
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: to get blackout drunk on box wine at home and Pinterest my future wedding.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't engaged.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Drunk me, had the word.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: But not that I don't drink, I can't make a bore for shit.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like, it's incredibly frustrating.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was also like a couple glasses of wine deep and it, when I was trying to pin.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: The shoe comes out.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this totally ruined my mood in the forehead.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this sucks.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it just like really sucks if you're somebody who like,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like curation is more of a thing than ever.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've wanted to like curate a vibe and also to brand to your point, it's like very funny.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've had my same Pinterest since I was like 13 and it's like such
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: a funny time capsule of like three days.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And how it's developed.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like very sad to see like probably what was my favorite.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even really like calling it a social media platform because I
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: at least have never used Pinterest like that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know you can like comment and DM and all the things.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just been such a frustrating experience.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation has made me realize that I have replaced my Pinterest time with
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: the Nordstrom app.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, like, I don't even buy things.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just go on there and, like,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: look through and sort through and,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: like, even just, like, look at brands I'm never going to purchase.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they have everything, like, high, low, and it satisfies that same curation itch.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I have a wish list of stuff that I'm never going to buy.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just, like, to that curating, you know?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Pinterest was the inside of my journal.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: It so is.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's inside my brain how my taste has developed,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: how my personal brand has developed,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: my internal personal brand, what I'm striving for.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting and just really sucks.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that also gets us to a point with, like, adopting new apps today.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that platform was Tumblr,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: where it's like you can go back and see,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I literally think I got it in seventh grade.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's like you can see what seventh grade me thought was aspirational.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So much of the past internet and how much these apps were built is like by
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: the teenagers at that time that the app was new.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of the ones who were pioneering the culture on that app.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we even had this with TikTok and Gen Z and the pandemic.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that now that's not really the case anymore where you're going
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: to like have a class of people who are going to be open to downloading a new app
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: and learning a new culture and
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Fran,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: that's interesting.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now I just download off Google Images and collage them in Canva.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically the modern equivalent of scrapbooking.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like I love that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll do that because I am a Canva queen and there are no ads on Canva yet.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Knock on wood.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the next... Next week on OpenTabs, Canva adds ads.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm going to get a push notification now about ads on Canva.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But okay,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: so next topic,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: the next two topics we're going to chat about, it's kind of a music focus.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: First topic, Spotify is getting into music videos.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when they started with like vodcasts and like you can now watch,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: the vodcast of Call Her Daddy and all
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: of their like Spotify original podcasts instead of having to do that on YouTube.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now they are getting into streaming music videos as well.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they've launched their first global music video chart.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: So similar to what YouTube used to have where you could go to
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: the top trending music videos and see what everyone was watching,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: you can now do that on Spotify.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they also have a tool that lets artists pitch their music videos
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: for consideration in playlists, which I think is interesting.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this also comes off at the beginning of the year.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think we included this in a Cultural Gems Monday email, but we never talked about it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube had to pull their data from Billboard charts back in January
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: because there was a dispute over the weight of subscriber views versus people
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: who weren't subscribed to artist channels.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So now this is,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: what is it, seven months later, Spotify is fully stepping in to replace that gap.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Also really interesting from this article,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Spotify said that watching videos drives more listens.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Users streaming songs are 64% more likely to then rewatch or restream that song in
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: the following weeks.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there's incentive for artists to upload their music videos to the platform.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Megan, do you have any thoughts now that I've given my spiel?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're always tracking how all of these platforms are kind of biting off
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: of each other and trying to like take from each other.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like this seems pretty clear of like them, like you said, filling a gap left by YouTube.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think this makes a lot of sense, though,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: even I would say more so than Them getting into podcasts and podcasts because it's
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: so aligned with what Spotify does,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: which is music and music discovery and that artist connection.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: However, I do think that there's so much more potential here than what they're...
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not speaking to how the music video form has actually evolved, I don't think.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know something we've talked about but not actually done
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: on OpenTabs is how music videos now always have a YouTuber in them.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that is because they want to bring that YouTuber's audience who is online over
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: to that music video to get the views up on that video.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Somber has had...
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: YouTubers and also actors and actresses in his music videos.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the thing now.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Alex Earl was in Benson Boone's music video.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: everyone went to go watch that because everyone was like,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: oh, this ties to what happened with her and Braxton.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that videos are on YouTube has kind of influenced the music video form now.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Spotify getting in there,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it used to be clips from music videos
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: and now artists I feel like have started
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Filming short snippets specifically for this, you keep talking and I'm going to Google.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever those are called,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like during TikTok's rise,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: that was a thing where artists would pull, I believe Doja Cat.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: There was one of her songs that was trending and she would pull people doing
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: the dance from TikTok and put it as the screens Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So because of that video,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: that song went viral and everyone was listening to it and he made a music video
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: and he changed the Spotify canvas to The Woman,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: which is she's calling herself Bob Diva now.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like very cool.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that really connected Spotify to how music and the industry and
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: the ecosystem is acting today in a really Yeah, I also think...
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was a month or two ago when Spotify announced they were reserving tickets
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: for super listeners, I think is the term that they were calling them.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they said they were determining super users partially by DMs in Spotify.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how often are you sending this music to another user in the platform?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about this feels like they're trying to push this messaging feature.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a loyal Spotify user.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've never messaged anyone in the app.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I totally forgot that was even a feature.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking, as you were talking, part of the experience of Yeah, but even that, like...
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Deco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco, mtdeco.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I love Kacey Muskers.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always surprised by what a fan of Kacey Muskers I am.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this music video is premiering and I'm like, oh yeah, that's happening today.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I go and I'm waiting for it to premiere on YouTube, how they do the schedule thing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only a hundred other people there.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's like 110 people waiting for Three minutes before it starts.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of 110 people in the world who is waiting
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: for this Kacey Musgraves video right now.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this has happened before where she's done a pop-up in LA.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, we have to get there early.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm the third person here.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm one of Kacey Musgraves' biggest fans.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know this because I'm consistently just looking around like,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that we were all going to be here.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where is everybody?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the metrics would show that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think That, like,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: by any metric, Kasey would ever know that I'm literally one of her biggest fans.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: But, like, I am.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's also something interesting that these platforms need to think more about.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Of, like,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: how are you serving the superfan who is not performing their superfandom exactly
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: the way that your platform expects them to?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's really who's actually spending money and buying tickets.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, like, I went to Walmart to look at the Kasey Musker's collection.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go to Walmart, you know?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's also something that as the platforms have so much visibility
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: into behavior,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: they also aren't like focused too much on their KPIs and the metrics
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: that they can influence because that's not the whole picture of fandom.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like with the rise of like fan accounts and like stan accounts,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: it does kind of suck all the air out of the room and...
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, with Love Island, like,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have watched, I watched every single episode of Love Island, like, this year.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have for the past, I don't know, like, five years.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm probably a super fan,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: but you would never know that unless you were,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: like, digging into my Instagram, like, or, like, my TikTok likes, you know?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not commenting on these people's content.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing deep dives on Twitter.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going cram on Reddit.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's really interesting how fandom culture has evolved.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be something that was a little more quieter, at least when I was younger.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: It would be maybe on your Tumblr and maybe you'd be posting
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: The people who are the loudest about their fandom kind of become representatives of
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: the fandom and if they are not someone that you want to align with,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then that is alienating.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's been a thing for me with Swifties.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the most popular Swifties are people who I'm like,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: not even like I don't like you, just like I don't want to be grouped with you.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that has made me kind of like be like, I'm not a Swiftie like that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like there's this association.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you also do have to curate your fandom and make sure
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: that you're not just letting whoever become the main fan.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like right now in the Olivia Rodrigo fandom,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: there's this girl who's like got pink hair and she was visiting the wall every day.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely feel like the Olivia Rodrigo like machine was like,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: this is exactly who we want.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's encourage this.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make her, give her stuff.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, she has really good boundaries about like what she does and things like that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell they're making a concerted effort
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: to foster those super fan relationships with people who they've decided align with
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: the brand, not just like I love that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that connects to our final topic, all about CharliXX and anti-marketing.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: In case you guys missed it, CharliXX, I think last week, released the following on Twitter.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: She said, truly believe anti-marketing will become a thing soon.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Still marketing, but it's just a different approach.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: More intimate, personal, private, one-on-one.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Less about the projection of scale.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm into it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: XX.