Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 337. Troubleshooting a Refrigeration Rack Down with Andrew Freeburg

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Episode 337. Troubleshooting a Refrigeration Rack Down with Andrew Freeburg · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Trevor: Welcome everyone to Morning Coffees with Trevor and Andrew. So this is a new set of morning coffee. I did this for a long time a few years ago and we're bringing it back because there's so many people watch it, they comment on it, on, on YouTube or the podcast and they're like this. Really enjoyed these sessions and this is part of the refrigeration mentor community.
• 0:01
  Trevor: Yeah, no, I love it. We, we do lots of talks in the community and the refrigeration mentor community, and if anybody's looking to, to find some mentorship or some find some experts like Andrew, and we have Aiden and Noah and Michael. There's so many different ones in the community. It's refrigeration mentor.com/hub.
• 0:02
  And then it's not only the technical side, it's that personal development. How do we teach others? You know, how do we help others get outside their comfort zone a bit to really start to get inside their comfort zone? You know, we talked about that many times before, and, and this is important. It's important to teach other peoples.
• 0:03
  Andrew: Yeah. This was I've been doing this for 20 years. I've only heard stories, you know, about what happened with this service, call this rack down, and and I just never came across it and never had that, I guess, the opportunity to experience one myself.
• 0:04
  So like I said, I was just, 'cause it's on along the way. And then I don't know, some people like to not think about the service calls ahead of time, but I just can't help myself. So I'm thinking what could go wrong with one case? Yeah. So as I'm driving down there, that's what I'm thinking about. I get there and the, as soon as I walk in, the door manager runs towards me and.
• 0:05
  Got power check the phase monitor, phase monitor's good. Yeah, that's weird. Got out on the controller, started looking. And PSI is at one pound. Go, man, it pumped itself down. That's weird. This is A-C-P-C-R-M-C-C controller, so so I was like, oh, it's just pumped down. So got my little stubby gauge that I have in my, my tool bag kit and hook up and zero PSI.
• 0:06
  Andrew: No. Yeah, I, like I said, I've only heard of this actually happening. I never physically came across this. It was, it was, it was, I mean it's unfortunate, but it was cool to see and how I did it. Because now I had to think like, what's the best move to, to get this handled right? So I, I knew right away what was going on.
• 0:07
  So I didn't, I didn't find it just by using my, my eyeballs. So I'm like, well, there's, there's obviously a leak somewhere. I mean, there's a big one. So I started thinking, okay, so I'm going to figure out how I can find this leak, the fastest point where I could find this leak. So my thought was, well, what if I shut the suction and the dish, oops, the suction and the liquid ball valves off the branches from the at the rack.
• 0:08
  And then I grabbed 200 I guess pounds of nitrogen and went back to the store. And then I started again, I made sure that I isolated my liquid ball valves, my suction ball valves, and then I just jumped the pressure in the, in the the rack. Well, no leaks looked again, right. Trying to hear it.
• 0:09
  So I watched the pressure start to climb, shut it off. Okay. And then I, so I started doing this to all of them, and all of a sudden it came to one where I bumped the pressure up, and then it slowly would fall. Right? You could watch that. I'm like, okay, there's obviously something here. But I didn't stop there because the last thing I wanted to do was like, oh man, if there is another leak somewhere else, I just missed it because I, I'm like, this is it.
• 0:10
  Not absolutely nothing, but 'cause I've seen leaks like this before, or you have a little crack, but you get the, you lost the whole thing. So what was that conversation with the customer now? Because that's another thing, you know, like if I was a second year or a third year, ? Or even a, a new journeyman in a rack down like this.
• 0:11
  Well, what was that conversation with that, that customer, because this is, this is something that I used to be stressed out about, ? It's like, man, this is a big, big cost to the customer. ? And yeah, not only the, the refrigerant cost, but potentially product loss costs, things like that.
• 0:12
  I didn't even find the leak when I told them. I just, 'cause the, the whole store is down. The whole load temp. Part of the medium temps is a dual, a dual rack. So there was only like, I think there would maybe be one walk-in cooler we're running, and then the beer section was gold, which is important, you know, but it's just like out of all of it, the beer is probably not the most important pieces, but it just happened to be, 'cause this is a, this is two rack with four different suction groups.
• 0:13
  But the, I mean, just, just. Being cool, levelheaded, knowing what you need to do and explaining that to the customer. I think that's the best way to attack it. You know, they were, they were wondering what happened right away. And I, I didn't have that answer, and that's what I told 'em. I go, I don't know what hap, I don't know how it happened, but I know what happened.
• 0:14
  ? You do, you want to, and you wanna do your best to seem confident in, in that. And you, you were confident you didn't have the full answers. Right? 'cause you didn't know and, and don't, didn't make up a story or anything like that. You just tell 'em, hands down, this is what it is. And, you know this is my game plan.
• 0:15
  So I kind of, you know, you look at the size of the, the rack, you look at the receiver, you just fall kind of the pipes. I don't know, it's just, you kind of get in tuned with the systems, the more you work on 'em. And they're, of course, none of 'em are the same. I'm not saying that, but
• 0:16
  And then on that, it should say, okay, well we got 400, 500, 300, 200, whatever the amount of refrigerants in there. So this is something that, okay, you, you need to check. And this is something where you could be. Potentially you don't have that in there. Take a couple of pictures of the size of this.
• 0:17
  Andrew: yeah, no, I agree. The, the refrigeration schedules are, are life. Time saving. Like, I mean, it's just they're great if, if the store has 'em. Unfortunately this store did not, this is an old store.
• 0:18
  I agree with Trevor. Even if it, even if you come up short, but we're maintaining temp, at least you can go and grab more. I mean, that's, that's no big deal at that point. 'cause now you got the major part fixed and the stores running.
• 0:19
  Trevor: That's right. That's important too, because you gotta go and prove and show them what actually happened. Not making stories up, just telling them, writing 'em on of paper, but you actually take the picture of it, show them this is like being accountable so they can be like, okay, this is actually what happened.
• 0:20
  And they could say that we were there a week ago and we caused that. And then I go, well, this is proof right here saying that it's not, you know, it just covers you, covers your company. I mean, it just, all the way around. It just shows professionalism and that's why I think it's important to documentation.
• 0:21
  ? But that muscle memory, like from the gym is the brain memory, refrigeration, memory. It comes back real quick. But you just gotta keep doing the reps, which is pretty awesome. And like I said, that's why lots of students that that come into the courses, the ones that just keep doing, go out into the field and try it and then come back you know, and learn a little bit more and go and try it again.
• 0:22
  ? And that open communication really, I know for sure builds a relationships with that customer. Even though you said earlier some customers are real hard, you know, and they are, but you still keep on your same track and over time you'll learn how to deal with these different personalities.
• 0:23
  Help build their confidence so they don't feel overwhelmed. ? Because for sure, I, at five, even five years in, I would've been pretty overwhelmed with a rack down and all the product and the freezing product is warm. ? Or warming up really fast. How, how can you No, that's a better mentor as a senior lead.
• 0:24
  Let them explain what their thought process is and then, and then just kind of guide 'em if it is wrong, just guide 'em to a, a spot. I mean, I always, I am a big fan of educating, obviously. I mean, I love this stuff, so I, I'm definitely a huge fan of educating 'em, but I don't want to give them the answers unless it comes to a point where they're completely just, this is what they, you need to do a step by step by step.
• 0:25
  It's just, like I said, it's that panic level where they know what's going on, but they just don't know what to do. So just guiding them on, well, they already probably know what to do, just guide them. And then that, that's probably the biggest thing that I would probably work on if I got that phone call myself.
• 0:26
  You know? But when you're stressed and you're sometimes overworked and not only from work stress, there's lots of personal stress with our jobs as well, you know? And so how do you separate that? So as a leader, you gotta be a coach to them. You also have to be a coach. And I hear this all the time. Well, they don't learn.
• 0:27
  And we expect a lot from, from some of them. You know, I have some technicians that come and take my training program and they're only six months or or a year in, and they're telling me some of the calls are on. I'm like, I couldn't take those calls at four or five years in. And you're on these calls right now and trying to learn.
• 0:28
  You know, this time I don't think I would've, I think I would've hit that panic button. And hit keep hitting it until I had some help. Right. Because it is just, it's just, it's a lot. And then you got the customer is like, okay, so what's going on? Why is it that way? And you don't have that answer, right?
• 0:29
  So, I mean, it, it's, they're looking at you. 'cause we are, we are the experts when it comes to the refrigeration. So that is a lot of pressure and just, just try to keep a calm demeanor because if you're panicking, they probably will panic. That's gonna put more pressure on you. So just definitely take some deep breaths and get ready to talk to the customer and don't show that, that you have a panic demeanor because that does transfer over.
• 0:30
  I don't know where the leak is right now. It's gonna take some time to find this. I'm gonna do my best and just try to help them be calm. You know what I, you know, the best as you can. And it, that's once again, coaching them to go have these conversations. 'cause a lot of tech, we work alone a lot. Do ?
• 0:31
  How you doing, brother?
• 0:32
  And then one that I tried to soft solder the TXV and just didn't take, so I, I just ended up braising it in. Yeah. And then one, one fitting that was near a flammable installation plastic cover that we, we couldn't get the heat rate on where we needed to. So that leak out, but basically that one leak out of all the piping.
• 0:33
  Keith: Oh, yeah. It's a art. Sometimes when it looks nice and looks presentable, it's, it's a nice person. Yeah.
• 0:34
  I'll give you a good example on air handling unit. So I don't know what unit you're talking about here, but just think about an air handling unit with a big auditorium, right? Yeah. You have a thousand people in the auditorium, everybody leaves. What happens to that system?
• 0:35
  Where you're short cycle in the compressor too, is that just the system's running longer, where the headmaster now is for low ambient applications. So when the air gets really cold, what happens to the pressure? It drops right off dropping
• 0:36
  Right. Will will their help. Because those ones are two separate. They're not even, they're two separate. Right? And there's not much for the holdback. Yeah, there is a few different solutions, but they do the same thing. So the fundamentals is the same. It's just sometimes there's different components. So in refrigeration, yes, there is sometimes a lot of different solutions, but it's only one real, one real thing.
• 0:37
  We're in this together and like sharing knowledge is so, so important to me because we all. Need to learn somehow, some way from someone. But how do we pass that down? How do we pass down what we know to others? How do we pass down our legacy in refrigeration? And this is a sharing knowledge to get better because there is so, so much to it.
• 0:38
  And you don't know where to start. You know, that conversation with the, the customer is very, very important and keeping them up to date. You know, and, and you know, you don't have to tell them everything, you know, you don't have to tell 'em everything that you have to do, but you just have to keep them what's the word?
• 0:39
  So I didn't know that. I was like, okay, I'm done. And what can I talk to so-and-so? And he's like, oh, he already left for the day. I'm like, sweet. Then that, that there, if he was uncomfortable with I guess that situation, he would've stayed until he knows. ? So I felt pretty, pretty good on that.
• 0:40
  And then labeling I have a label maker and I love to label things 'cause it definitely helps out. So now we know exactly how much that rack takes to fill up because I, I put on there rack charge, 432 pounds. So labeling is, could help the next person or the next technician out and it takes a second.
• 0:41
  And all said and done within that first day was eight hours and then I came back and changed the filters and stuff and dried in there. So another three hours. So 11, 12 hours to pour completion.
• 0:42
  Andrew: Oh, perfect. Is a pt PT chart and then shutting the, again, you're shutting the rack down, which I know it sounds scary, but yeah, you just shut the, shut the rack down. I forced the fans to run about 15. So let's talk about how
• 0:43
  Once everything's pumped down, then I shut everything off as, as far as the compressor's off. And then I go and go on the computer and force the fans on this is, so I'm just trying to get all the residual heat out of the condenser. So it gets down to outdoor temp and then I just about 15, 20 minutes or so, I do a pressure, temperature conversion to the outdoor temp and then what my pressure is as far as my inside my receiver or condenser.
• 0:44
  So it's like pump down circuits, open up t clean TX valves. So it's very, very important to, to check that at least once in a while. Another thing too is like talking about the oil, is that I really believe in doing like a oil lab analysis. You know, like a lot of people say, oh, well I just, I went and bought the a hundred dollars or the $50 asset test kit for the oil.
• 0:45
  Usually for me, my brain goes to cars. Right. Because they all have cars too, right. So I kind of like, well, that's just like not changing your oil or you know, in your car. Like you're not at least checking it. Right. I know. It's not really, you don't have to do that with our stuff. But every once in a while, if it starts to break down, because throughout the year there could be, who knows what happens And just getting it analyzed could just save, you know.
• 0:46
  But we also have to kind of sell that to the customer as well. 'Cause like I said, we have to get paid for what we do.
• 0:47
  You're avoiding it. That's excuses. 'cause if you're on the same page with that salesperson, you would be telling them exactly what they need. Then that salesperson will come back and say, this is what they need. And if the salesperson is, doesn't know refrigeration, you know it better than them, then, ?
• 0:48
  So in three years time, there should be an oil change on that rack. So , three to four years. And it should probably be less than that. You know, you, it's probably if that compressor you had to burn out in that compressor, just putting in an oil filter dryer in and changing, it's great.
• 0:49
  What did you sell them there? So you, you had to sell 'em gas. And sometimes you don't sell gas. The customer has their own gas, so don't worry about gas. But what are all the parts that you, you had for their, for their, on the, like say your service ticket, some of them, maybe we don't have to go through all of them, but what are some of the parts.
• 0:50
  Oil filter and liquid filters. I think that's, that's it. Well, then
• 0:51
  Andrew: Yeah. So to talk about all the miscellaneous yeah. So I had a vacuum pump use nitrogen use torch use. 'cause I had to braise up that hole nitrogen torch leak detector because I was running around the store trying to hopefully find a leak with the residual pressure that, or refrigerant that might have been in there.
• 0:52
  This is how you help your gross margin. This is how you're a sales person. This is how you explain to the customer for what they're paying for. That bill's $10,000, 5,000, $10, a thousand, $20,000 bill. If I was a customer getting a bill, I would like to know what I'm exactly paying for. And if it's just like one checkbox and that maybe that does everything in your company's one checkbox and as a certain price.
• 0:53
  So that's a cost, that's a cost to, you know, your company and yourself or whoever. You know, that, that that doesn't just come and I mean, that, that, that you have to pay, get paid for that. Yeah, I have to agree with Trevor. And then on, on the invoices too. I can't, I, what I feel like is super important is get, make, model, serial number of the unit.
• 0:54
  So yeah, I, I mean it was, I, I like details. And I think the customer does too. 'cause if I just got a bill for, again, I go, I go back to cars. If I got a bill that says, oh, engine components, like, well, what, what engine components, you know? So to me, I just like to put myself in their shoes and what I would want as far as if I'm paying the bill.
• 0:55
  Like it's detailed here. It's kind of like, I always say like, I watched the, what was it, the eight mile movie decades ago, you know, with em and m and where he is going into this rap battle and like this, the other guy had so much on him, like, you know, he is from the trailer park, this and that, and he goes out and he drops everything first.
• 0:56
  And hopefully those of you in the community got, you're taking a few things away and anyone watching, because this is, this is important. Sharing stories like this, talking about reflecting on it, that is another huge, huge thing that a lot of technicians, I didn't do a lot of because it was like, go to one fire, go to the next one, put the next thing out, and just go, go, go, go.
• 0:57
  Because we're all gonna make mistakes. It doesn't matter what we do. There's mistakes that, that, that will happen. But you gotta reflect on it. Well, what did I do then that I can do differently next time? And then reflect on the jobs that do go well, because you're gonna have so many that do go, well, you solve the problem for the customer.
• 0:58
  Right. And it kind of gets at you a little bit 'cause you kind of get in this mindset, man, is this right? Am I doing the right thing? What, I mean, I'm not, I don't think I'm getting better. Well, I mean, just, just look at the whole picture like Trevor said there. I think that's, that's huge. Now that looking back, I wish I had that guidance or someone told me that.
• 0:59
  We're on lots of different platforms. We're here to help share knowledge, grow knowledge, uplift industry. It doesn't matter where you're at in the world or we've seen, we've seen the good times, the tough times, the learning times in the refrigeration industry, and we're here to help support you. That's what this community is about, is to help support you so you feel confident.