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The Business Owner's Guide to Unstoppable Growth · Business Roundtable

0:31
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome back to the Business round Table podcast.
0:35
Speaker 1: I have a very special guest this week that I'm
0:38
Speaker 1: excited to introduce to you. Matt Wilson of Yellow Brick
0:41
Speaker 1: Method is here and I've not known Matt. Gosh, it's
0:46
Speaker 1: been about a year or so, I can't remember exactly
0:48
Speaker 1: when we came into Warrior together, were certified Waker Warrior coaches,
0:53
Speaker 1: and Matt has a great passion for helping CEOs of
0:58
Speaker 1: fast growing companies, which I'm really going to dive into
1:01
Speaker 1: today and asking him some great questions about how do
1:04
Speaker 1: you build a business and actually build a life at
1:06
Speaker 1: the same time. So Matt, Welcome to the Business Roundtable Podcast.
1:12
Speaker 2: David, I'm really excited to be here, and not just
1:17
Speaker 2: because I love what this topic is. Also we've grown
1:20
Speaker 2: to really appreciate who you are as a man as
1:24
Speaker 2: a leader over this past year and just seeing the
1:28
Speaker 2: clarity with which you live your life and the sort
1:30
Speaker 2: of a part that you have around it and how
1:32
Speaker 2: you build a community, which I feels like one of
1:34
Speaker 2: those most defining attributes of you is that you gather
1:38
Speaker 2: people together as we do at the Roundtable. That what
1:41
Speaker 2: I've seen you do with other coaches and I just
1:45
Speaker 2: love it. So thanks for inviting me on the show.
1:48
Speaker 3: Oh fantastic, No, it's so great to have you, Matt.
1:50
Speaker 1: So the Matt and I were talking before we started
1:53
Speaker 1: to come on the air here recording the podcast, and
1:56
Speaker 1: we were talking about one of the common challenges I've seen,
1:59
Speaker 1: and I think Matt has a lot of experience. That is,
2:02
Speaker 1: you know, companies want to grow and they think, you know,
2:05
Speaker 1: money cash flow certainly is key to that, but they
2:08
Speaker 1: oftentimes you think money is the solution to the problem
2:13
Speaker 1: of growing their company and having a better life. And Matt,
2:16
Speaker 1: I would just love I mean, and you feel free,
2:18
Speaker 1: Matt to just share your your a little bit about
2:20
Speaker 1: your background history here because you've got a lot of
2:24
Speaker 1: street creds here. So if you guys go go check
2:27
Speaker 1: Matt out on LinkedIn or Yellow Brick Method. But Matt,
2:30
Speaker 1: just you know, for the audience that they're new to
2:32
Speaker 1: you hearing from you, you'll share a little bit about
2:34
Speaker 1: your background and what brought you from kind of that
2:37
Speaker 1: world into coaching too. In Yellow Brick Method.
2:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely all right, So let me let me
2:42
Speaker 2: dive into the narrative and then we'll talk about the yeah,
2:45
Speaker 2: specific of the question, but yeah, grew up in northern California.
2:50
Speaker 2: From there, I actually became an intelligence officer in the
2:53
Speaker 2: US military, so sort of the US Navy for seven years,
2:58
Speaker 2: became an expert on some of the different militaries of
3:00
Speaker 2: the Middle East, and then spent a lot of time
3:02
Speaker 2: covering China. From there, I went to Harvard Business School.
3:07
Speaker 2: From Harvard Business School, I moved back to Hawaii, where
3:10
Speaker 2: I had lived before while I was serving in the military,
3:13
Speaker 2: and began a career in private equity. So now we're
3:15
Speaker 2: investing in companies, We're building real estate projects, you know,
3:20
Speaker 2: a thousand condo units in downtown Honolulu, all kinds of
3:24
Speaker 2: really fun stuff. Ended up investing in a technology company
3:28
Speaker 2: in California. About a year later, I moved to join
3:31
Speaker 2: that team. Helped scale that company. Over the course of
3:34
Speaker 2: seven years as chief operating officer CFO board member, raised
3:38
Speaker 2: a couple hundred million dollars of equity. Ultimately that company
3:41
Speaker 2: became worth over a billion dollars in value. And then
3:46
Speaker 2: from there I jumped out into the investing side again
3:49
Speaker 2: and launched a venture capital firm as the managing partner.
3:53
Speaker 3: Ran that for three.
3:54
Speaker 2: Years and what I found is I loved the people
3:58
Speaker 2: side of the business, and so it felt called to
4:02
Speaker 2: step out and become a coach, which I had largely done.
4:06
Speaker 2: It just wasn't called that before. It was called CFO,
4:09
Speaker 2: it was called number, it was a managing partner. But
4:13
Speaker 2: the part about coaching that I love is that I
4:16
Speaker 2: get to help people wrestle with some of the most
4:19
Speaker 2: difficult decisions of their lives. But as you were saying,
4:22
Speaker 2: build a life while they're building a business, so that
4:25
Speaker 2: they can play to the level they want to with
4:29
Speaker 2: this precious life that they have, win big while also
4:33
Speaker 2: I'm not losing everything that matters in the process.
4:36
Speaker 3: There.
4:36
Speaker 2: It's like their marriage, kids, health, peace of mind because
4:42
Speaker 2: doing things that could compromise what they treasure most. So
4:47
Speaker 2: that's a little bit of a background on me. Also,
4:49
Speaker 2: I think you also want this. I trained in the
4:50
Speaker 2: martial arts. Yes, I have three black belts from my
4:53
Speaker 2: youth and now I'm on the mats as a Brazilian
4:57
Speaker 2: Jiu Jitsu blue belt.
5:00
Speaker 3: I love it.
5:01
Speaker 2: There's so many life lessons that I extract from that experience.
5:05
Speaker 3: But let's talk about yeah. Yeah, So, so one of
5:09
Speaker 3: the things you know, I was talking to you about that.
5:11
Speaker 1: I see, Matt, is there's this chasing of dollars, if
5:16
Speaker 1: you will, and but to what end, like you're kind
5:19
Speaker 1: of alluding to. And so one of the things I've
5:22
Speaker 1: seen businesses struggle.
5:24
Speaker 3: With is they have this idea.
5:25
Speaker 1: I was just talking with the client this week about this,
5:26
Speaker 1: or like, hey, we want to grow, we want to
5:28
Speaker 1: bring on more staff, but then that's obviously going to
5:30
Speaker 1: cost us more.
5:31
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to borrow money. That's going to cost
5:33
Speaker 3: us money. So there's all this money game like you
5:35
Speaker 3: just talked about.
5:37
Speaker 1: There's kind of maybe a and I'd love to talk
5:39
Speaker 1: maybe about the myth or what you've seen a little
5:41
Speaker 1: bit of like hey, if we get the money, that
5:44
Speaker 1: will make everything kind of better, that'll make all of
5:46
Speaker 1: our lives. I mean, of course money does help, obviously
5:48
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, Matt, but you know, like you said,
5:50
Speaker 1: what is it really getting us or is it making
5:53
Speaker 1: it actually maybe more difficult at times because it's kind
5:55
Speaker 1: of muddying the waters. So as a business owner or
5:58
Speaker 1: somebody that's looking to, like you said, raise millions dollars
6:00
Speaker 1: a capital or trying to grow something, and they're just
6:02
Speaker 1: focused on that, I don't know. Sometimes single goal or
6:06
Speaker 1: objective and they're like, hey, what is what's the cost
6:09
Speaker 1: of this? I mean literally in a lot of a
6:11
Speaker 1: lot of ways of my life trying to achieve this
6:14
Speaker 1: and maybe just carry your background in history there, because
6:16
Speaker 1: a lot of business owners feel like, you know, obviously
6:20
Speaker 1: this is a legitimate way that we grow our business.
6:23
Speaker 3: It has its about how he has its place.
6:25
Speaker 1: But what have you seen kind of maybe the dark
6:28
Speaker 1: side of the things that we're not thinking about when
6:30
Speaker 1: we start to go down that road.
6:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of my early mentors had been very
6:44
Speaker 2: successful in business as like the number two had been
6:48
Speaker 2: the chief operating officer. They built out, they went from
6:50
Speaker 2: let's say one car dealership to fourteen, done massive real
6:55
Speaker 2: estate projects. He was involved in all these different aspects
6:58
Speaker 2: of it, yep. And the opportunity came up for him
7:01
Speaker 2: to actually buy one of the dealerships and become his
7:05
Speaker 2: own boss and to run with it from there, and
7:09
Speaker 2: it was like a golden opportunity. He pulled together some
7:12
Speaker 2: seller financing, so his previous company kind of backed him,
7:15
Speaker 2: pulled together some other capital, and was able.
7:18
Speaker 3: To secure this gem of an asset.
7:23
Speaker 2: But then what happened is there were a series of
7:27
Speaker 2: like I would say, events that occurred, and what happened
7:33
Speaker 2: each time is instead of tightening up the operational skill
7:37
Speaker 2: set that he had, his default response was I just
7:41
Speaker 2: need more capital. So he would keep going out and
7:44
Speaker 2: securing additional capital to fund the gaps.
7:47
Speaker 3: Let me give you for instance, Yeah.
7:48
Speaker 2: It was a car dealership that in twenty eleven when
7:52
Speaker 2: the tsunami hit Japan, that knocked out a lot of
7:56
Speaker 2: the chips that were being put into cars, and so
7:59
Speaker 2: the inventory of new cars coming dried up. But he
8:03
Speaker 2: didn't adjust the team size, he didn't cut costs, he
8:07
Speaker 2: didn't look at the cash flow implications. He just tried
8:10
Speaker 2: to hold it all together and borrow more money and
8:14
Speaker 2: then hoping that growth would make up for where there was,
8:18
Speaker 2: you know, inadequate.
8:19
Speaker 3: Management within the business. Yep.
8:22
Speaker 2: And then it got to the point where his main
8:24
Speaker 2: finance guy kind of like like, hey, this is too stressful,
8:28
Speaker 2: don't want to be a part of this. He bounces
8:30
Speaker 2: and then basically the understudy became the main finance person
8:34
Speaker 2: and he was not good. And so what happened then
8:38
Speaker 2: is that the cash flow problems grew worse and become
8:42
Speaker 2: more challenging, and so eventually he was able to secure
8:47
Speaker 2: additional private capital, but every time he did it came
8:50
Speaker 2: with more strings attached, and it got to where he
8:53
Speaker 2: was able to secure capital on some of these people
8:54
Speaker 2: that are giving him capital were savvy, and so he
8:57
Speaker 2: even had his home as collateral personal guarantees. The interest
9:02
Speaker 2: rates start going up, and now he starts pulling money
9:06
Speaker 2: from all these other places, not even like clear as
9:09
Speaker 2: like where here you mos owes money or what terms
9:11
Speaker 2: it's on, and some of these were egregious, okay, by
9:15
Speaker 2: just trying to grow your way out of it, yes,
9:17
Speaker 2: And then at one point he got to the place
9:20
Speaker 2: where the manufacturer who really backs the dealerships was like, hey,
9:24
Speaker 2: you're over Leverick. You have to sell because this is
9:28
Speaker 2: not this is not We're not going to allow you
9:32
Speaker 2: to continue to run this business.
9:33
Speaker 3: Yep. Fortunately, you know.
9:36
Speaker 2: A big you know, publicly traded company came in and
9:39
Speaker 2: bought it. But because of how compromise he was financially,
9:43
Speaker 2: that cleared some of the debts, but.
9:45
Speaker 3: Not all of them. Wow, okay, and he.
9:48
Speaker 2: Ended up losing everything, lost his house, reputational damage like
9:57
Speaker 2: the whole thing, right, and I had been there in
10:00
Speaker 2: the early years and this and folded over the course
10:02
Speaker 2: of like five six years, and I was in there
10:05
Speaker 2: and we get growth plans and ambitions, and I realized
10:07
Speaker 2: he needed to really allow these core businesses to cure
10:10
Speaker 2: to like stabilize themselves, yes, right, and like generate cash
10:14
Speaker 2: flow instead of trying to continue to reach and stretch
10:16
Speaker 2: beyond what he was able to do, and even advise
10:21
Speaker 2: him not to take some of these terms because it
10:23
Speaker 2: wasn't good.
10:24
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, like he was a man of.
10:28
Speaker 2: Strong faith, but lacked the understanding and the discipline around
10:32
Speaker 2: just prudent fiscal management. And it ended up taking him
10:36
Speaker 2: out and he lost a lot of friends. Some of
10:40
Speaker 2: his best friends turned on him, sued him, just like
10:44
Speaker 2: because he lost their money, their family money. He was trusted.
10:50
Speaker 2: So it was it was a warning to me seeing
10:53
Speaker 2: that play out over a number of years, where it's like, oh,
10:58
Speaker 2: just getting more money that's on the wrong terms, or
11:01
Speaker 2: if you don't have the right vehicle for it, it
11:04
Speaker 2: can be the thing that that cripples your business and
11:07
Speaker 2: you can ultimately drown in the capital that you raise,
11:10
Speaker 2: which initially you thought was the solution.
11:12
Speaker 3: To your problem. Right, And that's ever.
11:16
Speaker 2: Since because I saw him fall right, kids kids had
11:20
Speaker 2: to come out of private school, lost the country membership,
11:23
Speaker 2: the whole thing. Yeah, and so wow, that's on the
11:28
Speaker 2: cautionary side right now. Now, the flip side of it is,
11:33
Speaker 2: if you are qualified, if the capital will advance what
11:38
Speaker 2: you're doing, and you have the right discipline to management,
11:40
Speaker 2: you can be a powerful like jet fuel from what
11:45
Speaker 2: you do, but jets highly flammable, right, so you have
11:49
Speaker 2: to be ready for it and understand what it is.
11:53
Speaker 2: I also come from the world of venture capital. For
11:56
Speaker 2: many years, what was glorified and praised was they to
12:00
Speaker 2: raise capital as compared to the ability to build a business.
12:04
Speaker 3: M that's two different things, right, totally different.
12:07
Speaker 2: So the headlines are often like this company just raised
12:10
Speaker 2: you know, fifty million dollars Series.
12:12
Speaker 3: B, and everyone's like yay right now.
12:16
Speaker 2: Indirectly, it's an indication that some people deemed you worthy
12:19
Speaker 2: of the capitol, right, But we're celebrating what is the
12:24
Speaker 2: like the supply, as opposed to like what's built. Right,
12:29
Speaker 2: So here's here's money. Now, all this money that comes in,
12:32
Speaker 2: there's obligations associated with It's not free, right, not free right,
12:38
Speaker 2: So often what happens if you get too much money
12:40
Speaker 2: too fast, then you have to do sometimes unnatural acts
12:44
Speaker 2: to attempt to grow more quickly than you would otherwise,
12:50
Speaker 2: and it becomes a very high stakes game, a very
12:53
Speaker 2: high risk game if you take on too much capital,
12:56
Speaker 2: because the expectations are incredibly high.
12:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, we want to get our return on our money. Right,
13:01
Speaker 1: you're like, come on, yeah.
13:03
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so if you're not good, what happens is
13:07
Speaker 2: you have a bunch of money because guess what, it's
13:09
Speaker 2: actually really easy to spend money.
13:13
Speaker 3: Right. A lot of people will show.
13:14
Speaker 2: Up and say, you know, send some of my way,
13:17
Speaker 2: all solve all your problems, right, and you get enough
13:19
Speaker 2: of those, and pretty soon there's just a massive sucking
13:22
Speaker 2: sound of cash going out.
13:23
Speaker 3: Of the business. Mm hmm. So that's when you have.
13:26
Speaker 2: To have the right systems and process and maturity to
13:30
Speaker 2: be able to handle the capital so that when it
13:33
Speaker 2: comes it actually is align. It's the wind in your
13:36
Speaker 2: sales and not the wind that knocks you over.
13:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's huge.
13:41
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen I've seen where yeah, like if
13:44
Speaker 1: you have to do things unnaturally, you're trying to grow
13:46
Speaker 1: in one of the things you and I have talked
13:48
Speaker 1: about and warriors creating a firm foundation that you're framing
13:52
Speaker 1: off of. And if if that's not solid, you keep
13:54
Speaker 1: trying to frame, it's just going to collapse in on itself.
13:58
Speaker 3: You know.
13:59
Speaker 2: For me, here's an analogy, right, So let's say you're
14:02
Speaker 2: building your body or you're doing weight training. If you
14:04
Speaker 2: take steroids right as you're beginning your workout career, your
14:08
Speaker 2: muscles and your strength will outpace your ability of your
14:12
Speaker 2: ligaments to withhold best strength, and so you will actually
14:16
Speaker 2: injure yourself because you made yourself too strong before the
14:21
Speaker 2: parts of your body to hold everything together can support it.
14:24
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's great. Yeah, okay, So.
14:27
Speaker 2: There needs to be almost like this conditioning period that
14:31
Speaker 2: you develop so that when you increase the muscular strength,
14:35
Speaker 2: your tendons, your ligaments, everything can withstand that increased pressure.
14:41
Speaker 2: So you whether it's debt or equity, that's increased pressure.
14:47
Speaker 2: Now you have another party that is expecting to either
14:50
Speaker 2: get paid or get paid now or get paid.
14:53
Speaker 3: Later, right, right, And so you.
14:55
Speaker 2: Need to be able to shoulder that effectively without it
14:58
Speaker 2: sinking you. So I know people on both ends of
15:01
Speaker 2: the spectrum, some who are highly levered and others who
15:05
Speaker 2: are like completely avoid that mm hmm, right, and and
15:10
Speaker 2: then you know a bunch.
15:11
Speaker 3: In the middle. Yeah.
15:13
Speaker 2: But anyways, like that's like it is, that's that's important.
15:17
Speaker 1: I mean, if so, I guess you have to ask
15:18
Speaker 1: yourself question if the leadership team, and this is going
15:21
Speaker 1: to get to the part of your coaching Matt, is
15:22
Speaker 1: like are they considering that?
15:25
Speaker 3: Like you said, maybe they think like, oh, they don't.
15:28
Speaker 3: They don't.
15:28
Speaker 1: They haven't trained well enough, they haven't done this, so
15:30
Speaker 1: they're going to injure themselves essentially because they're like, oh,
15:32
Speaker 1: I just need it, I'm going to do it. And
15:34
Speaker 1: not only just in the business, but you mentioned a
15:36
Speaker 1: couple other things. I mean, if you do this, it
15:38
Speaker 1: literally like if you put up personal guarantees my house,
15:41
Speaker 1: how's affecting my.
15:42
Speaker 3: Marriage, my children?
15:43
Speaker 1: The stress about you know, my goodness, carrying all this
15:47
Speaker 1: my physical literally my physical body, the stress and all
15:51
Speaker 1: these things that I'm carrying on myself. So you know,
15:55
Speaker 1: I mean talk a little bit about you know, we'll
15:58
Speaker 1: come back, go back and forth between this casual but
16:00
Speaker 1: I think you're you're you're you're specifically helping CEOs right
16:04
Speaker 1: in this area of like managing all of this right.
16:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, so when you talk about things that
16:11
Speaker 2: keep you know, CEOs up and out right, there's when
16:18
Speaker 2: you're taking in someone else's money, like your reputation is
16:21
Speaker 2: directly on the line with that person and anyone else
16:24
Speaker 2: that knows how well you stewarded the capital that you
16:26
Speaker 2: were entrusted with, and it increases the pressure. It does
16:30
Speaker 2: not take the pressure away. It goes up. Now, initially
16:34
Speaker 2: you might feel grateful because you have more capital to
16:38
Speaker 2: do what you're looking to do.
16:40
Speaker 3: So if you.
16:40
Speaker 2: Felt before I'm constrained, I want to but can't, the
16:44
Speaker 2: capital comes in and then now you may be able
16:47
Speaker 2: to unlock that. But then the problem grows of like
16:51
Speaker 2: being able to meet those obligations. And a lot of
16:54
Speaker 2: the companies that I work with, they've either raised debt
16:58
Speaker 2: or equity or both. And when you're raising equity, like,
17:01
Speaker 2: oh well, it's not debt, there's no like obligations in
17:04
Speaker 2: the form of interest payments, which is true. However, you're
17:10
Speaker 2: stewarding someone else's capital that has entrusted you with it
17:13
Speaker 2: in order to build something. The thing that you're attempting
17:16
Speaker 2: to build is actually extraordinarily hard and so they can
17:21
Speaker 2: be a lot of pressure in that. And then the
17:22
Speaker 2: other thing is sometimes you raise capital from people that
17:25
Speaker 2: you greatly respect and have massive influence, because these tend
17:30
Speaker 2: to be high net worth or ultra high net with
17:33
Speaker 2: individuals or funds, and so it doesn't just become a
17:37
Speaker 2: question of capital. It becomes a question of relationship and
17:42
Speaker 2: what will people think of me if I screw this up?
17:45
Speaker 3: Right?
17:46
Speaker 2: Now, America tends to be incredibly forgiving as long as
17:49
Speaker 2: you're honest and you're screwed up, right, if you're not
17:55
Speaker 2: lying or committing fraud or those things, in which case
17:57
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, but if you're launching a tech company
18:00
Speaker 2: and it fails and it's the nature of the beast
18:03
Speaker 2: and you did everything possible, and you like cool, okay,
18:08
Speaker 2: Like that happens because sometimes you're running an experiment, it's
18:11
Speaker 2: a science, like you tested, it didn't work, dust yourself
18:16
Speaker 2: off and start again, right right. But as soon as
18:19
Speaker 2: you start heading down the path of straying from the truth,
18:24
Speaker 2: that's when all the dark stuff comes in and then
18:27
Speaker 2: I can do the cover up. After that, then you
18:30
Speaker 2: just dig yourself into a deep pit of you know,
18:34
Speaker 2: reputational like chaos, from which you'll probably never recover or
18:37
Speaker 2: it will require.
18:38
Speaker 3: Like deep levels of like renewal to come out of that.
18:41
Speaker 2: So that said, even when you mean well, there can
18:46
Speaker 2: be a lot of stress because the pacing and the
18:49
Speaker 2: expectations required of you. You have to go faster, you
18:54
Speaker 2: have to make fewer mistakes, and you have to create
18:57
Speaker 2: bigger outcomes even by themselves. That is difficult. And then
19:01
Speaker 2: you have people who are asking for the update how
19:04
Speaker 2: it's going and wanting to see and then part of you,
19:09
Speaker 2: especially if you need to raise additional capital, you're trying
19:12
Speaker 2: to tell the truth and at the same time present
19:16
Speaker 2: a picture of why you should be worthy of additional
19:19
Speaker 2: capital in the future to keep backing and keep funding you.
19:22
Speaker 2: So it creates a whole other relationship dynamic and instead
19:26
Speaker 2: of like pressure and voices in your head to be
19:29
Speaker 2: able to live, you know under that pressure. Whether it's
19:33
Speaker 2: equity or debt, they're both a form of obligation and
19:37
Speaker 2: an agreement and effective get a contract that you have
19:40
Speaker 2: taken on to fulfill your end of the bargain.
19:43
Speaker 3: M hm.
19:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said something there about you know, telling the truth,
19:51
Speaker 1: and this is something fundational that we talk about in
19:53
Speaker 1: the wake up lawyer. As a certified trainers, tell the truth. Yeah,
19:56
Speaker 1: stop lying. But here's here's reality. You and I both understand.
19:59
Speaker 1: Is the greatest lie who do die to the most?
20:02
Speaker 1: Or is it ourselves?
20:03
Speaker 3: Right? The lie is to ourselves first.
20:06
Speaker 1: So walk me through a little bit, Matt, because I
20:10
Speaker 1: think some of the work that you're doing and things
20:11
Speaker 1: I know or like as a CEO, it's like you
20:14
Speaker 1: just talked about all these things that they're struggling with,
20:16
Speaker 1: but there's a narrative or a story where they start
20:19
Speaker 1: to lie to themselves or tell them something that's really
20:22
Speaker 1: not true, and it's not getting them them where they
20:24
Speaker 1: where they want to be.
20:25
Speaker 3: But they're stressed.
20:26
Speaker 1: They got all these things I got, I got to
20:27
Speaker 1: go fast, I've got to be this.
20:29
Speaker 3: Person and it's not working. Right. I can to talk
20:34
Speaker 3: about that person you're helping, you know.
20:37
Speaker 2: So so also now imagine that same person who's got
20:40
Speaker 2: all this additional stress at work. They're building a team,
20:43
Speaker 2: they're trying to lead that team. Maybe it's their first time.
20:46
Speaker 2: If not, you know, it feels like you know new problems,
20:49
Speaker 2: you know new levels. There's you basically always live at
20:53
Speaker 2: the extent of your capacity, right, so even if you've
20:57
Speaker 2: done it before and now you're doing it and dow way,
20:59
Speaker 2: it's still heart.
21:00
Speaker 3: It's always determined in that hold on, hold on all.
21:03
Speaker 2: Right, So so like there's.
21:07
Speaker 1: Uh, let me say, you're just saying they have all
21:11
Speaker 1: the things that they're going on. The business owners got
21:13
Speaker 1: you know, the teams, the building, they're like kind of
21:15
Speaker 1: the edge, right, this is all newness, Like it's a
21:16
Speaker 1: kind of almost a science experiment.
21:18
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
21:19
Speaker 2: And then probably let's say they have a significant other
21:22
Speaker 2: than their lives or they're married and they have kids. Right,
21:24
Speaker 2: then you have this whole other complicating factor because they're
21:26
Speaker 2: wanting your time and attention, right, and it becomes very
21:30
Speaker 2: difficult to manage all of the stress and be present
21:33
Speaker 2: in each moment. Right at work, you're probably worried about
21:36
Speaker 2: what's happening on the family front, and when you're with them,
21:39
Speaker 2: you're thinking about business stuff and responding to people and
21:41
Speaker 2: just go, I have to I need to get back
21:44
Speaker 2: to this. And so the challenge behind all of this
21:48
Speaker 2: is you can begin living out of obligation instead of
21:51
Speaker 2: out of joy, and you begin to react and respond
21:55
Speaker 2: rather than create and design. And so one of the
22:00
Speaker 2: things that can happen with that is then we lose
22:03
Speaker 2: the ability to take the initiative because we are reacting
22:07
Speaker 2: to the needs of everyone around us, investors, board members, employees, family, right,
22:14
Speaker 2: and then what happens is the stress continues to build.
22:18
Speaker 3: Right.
22:18
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that wrestle with notions that
22:22
Speaker 2: either imposter syndrome or who am I? And that can
22:25
Speaker 2: happen at both ends. They can be overly prideful and
22:28
Speaker 2: that leads them to taking on exaggerated risks, or they
22:32
Speaker 2: can be prideful and that leads them to play small
22:34
Speaker 2: because they're playing not to lose and they don't want
22:38
Speaker 2: to be seen as someone that's screwed it up. All
22:41
Speaker 2: of this means that effectively they're not living in freedom anymore.
22:46
Speaker 2: So what you're talking about when it talks about truth
22:49
Speaker 2: versus lies, all of this is a story that they're
22:53
Speaker 2: living in. They're creating the frame and the context and
22:56
Speaker 2: the structure that they're living in. And if they view
23:00
Speaker 2: that as truth. And here's the problem for us as humans, right,
23:03
Speaker 2: whatever story we're living in, that's how we filter what
23:06
Speaker 2: we see in the world. Right, So whatever we're aiming at,
23:09
Speaker 2: whatever that is, that then becomes we look at everything
23:13
Speaker 2: is either it's going to help me get there, it's
23:15
Speaker 2: in the way, or it's not relevant. And so that's
23:19
Speaker 2: one of those things we look at. Okay, you know,
23:21
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of stuff comes at us not relevant, easy, gone,
23:25
Speaker 2: oh this can help me great.
23:26
Speaker 3: This is a hindrance.
23:28
Speaker 2: And so the challenge here is if you're living in
23:32
Speaker 2: a false narrative, then you will never be free because
23:35
Speaker 2: you're not living based off truth. And your problem is
23:39
Speaker 2: that you might not even see it because it's how
23:43
Speaker 2: you're seeing. So for me, when I work with CEOs
23:48
Speaker 2: and leaders and men, it's like, hey, first, you have
23:52
Speaker 2: to be willing to face the truth of where you are,
23:56
Speaker 2: because we can delude ourselves into thinking that we're either
23:59
Speaker 2: better then or worse than where we are.
24:01
Speaker 3: And it's really hard to get where you're going if
24:03
Speaker 3: you don't even know where your starting point is. Yes, right, And.
24:07
Speaker 2: Then the other piece is being honest and truthful about
24:11
Speaker 2: what we actually want right, And this is something that
24:15
Speaker 2: we both learn and live by with the code, which
24:17
Speaker 2: is you know, what are the facts of where you are?
24:20
Speaker 2: What are the facts of what you want? Because if
24:23
Speaker 2: you set up something that you don't really want good
24:26
Speaker 2: luck committing to go.
24:28
Speaker 3: All in on that.
24:29
Speaker 2: Like you can execute against it, you can will yourself
24:32
Speaker 2: to do it, but like it's again not freedom because
24:35
Speaker 2: you have confined yourself to doing something that's not really
24:38
Speaker 2: what you want. Right, And people come from different backgrounds,
24:42
Speaker 2: but altimately a lot of people wrestle with this notion
24:45
Speaker 2: of people pleasing. And what we'll do is we will
24:47
Speaker 2: allow others to color and adjust the things that we're
24:51
Speaker 2: going for based off of the desires.
24:54
Speaker 3: That they have.
24:56
Speaker 2: Right, And as social creatures, that's part of how we
24:59
Speaker 2: survive and community.
25:01
Speaker 3: Right, you have to adjust and you change.
25:03
Speaker 2: But I feel like there's a fundamental truth of who
25:09
Speaker 2: you were born to be and the calling and the
25:12
Speaker 2: mission that you've been assigned, And if you allow the
25:15
Speaker 2: distractions to pull you off course, then you could win
25:19
Speaker 2: the ability to get along, but miss the ultimate prize
25:24
Speaker 2: doing that thing for which you were uniquely designed to live.
25:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that requires.
25:29
Speaker 2: Us to continually examine what we believe to be true,
25:35
Speaker 2: to see if there's any lies in that, and allow
25:38
Speaker 2: what is not true to burn away.
25:42
Speaker 3: And to visit that.
25:43
Speaker 2: So I was speaking with a client this morning and
25:46
Speaker 2: he's like, how do I stop playing small? And here's
25:51
Speaker 2: the funny thing. Every leader I've ever spoken to thought
25:57
Speaker 2: they were playing small, doesn't matter where they are. It's
26:03
Speaker 2: almost like telling an achiever you can do better.
26:06
Speaker 3: Right. It's like you're right.
26:09
Speaker 2: Right, It's like it doesn't matter if it looks like
26:12
Speaker 2: you just gave it all.
26:13
Speaker 3: It's like you can do better, yep, right, right, And and.
26:18
Speaker 2: There's a beauty in that, right, because you recognize, like, yeah,
26:21
Speaker 2: I can do better.
26:22
Speaker 3: Right.
26:23
Speaker 2: But a big piece of stopping playing small is recognizing
26:27
Speaker 2: that what appears often to be humility could be timidity
26:32
Speaker 2: and disguise.
26:33
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a good one.
26:36
Speaker 2: And we can take pride in our humility yes, and
26:40
Speaker 2: be like, well, I'm not arrogant like that person. And
26:46
Speaker 2: here's how I've seen that manifest for me. And I've
26:48
Speaker 2: been I've been studying the story of canaan Abel in
26:52
Speaker 2: the Bible, which is the tragic story of brothers.
26:55
Speaker 3: Oh man.
26:56
Speaker 2: But I have seen myself and this is something my
27:00
Speaker 2: wife has helped me see for years. But now I'm
27:02
Speaker 2: starting to realize what she was saying is I can
27:05
Speaker 2: be critical of people. And and so what that allows
27:10
Speaker 2: me to do is tear others down without having to
27:12
Speaker 2: fix the problems that are in me. And usually the
27:15
Speaker 2: things I'm critical of in others are things that I
27:17
Speaker 2: don't like in me that I'm not wanted.
27:19
Speaker 3: To deal with. M m m h. Right.
27:23
Speaker 2: So, so we can either strive to be that ideal
27:26
Speaker 2: or we can try to bring the ideal down to
27:30
Speaker 2: our level, in which case it doesn't have the same
27:33
Speaker 2: level of tension that requires.
27:35
Speaker 3: Or demands of us. Yep, that we become more m
27:39
Speaker 3: and so.
27:41
Speaker 2: But in a way, that critical spirit is a way
27:43
Speaker 2: of me lying to.
27:44
Speaker 1: Myself, Yeah, I can I can relate, Matt, I want to.
27:50
Speaker 1: You're talking about the business owners. There's these stories and
27:53
Speaker 1: a lot of time we have we don't I don't
27:56
Speaker 1: even think maybe.
27:57
Speaker 3: We realize this.
27:58
Speaker 1: I know you and I use the stack tool and
27:59
Speaker 1: other tools like to get at maybe unconscious guilt or
28:05
Speaker 1: shame or you know, there's some things in there that
28:08
Speaker 1: they've and I think this is probably a challenge sometimes
28:11
Speaker 1: when we're actually relatively successful, you know, it kind of
28:15
Speaker 1: gives us an like you said, we can kind of like, oh,
28:18
Speaker 1: I don't really need to look at this.
28:19
Speaker 3: I'm good in this area.
28:20
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes as businessmen and men in business,
28:23
Speaker 1: we can usually do we could do well in business,
28:27
Speaker 1: but then we kind of neglect other areas. But we
28:28
Speaker 1: just kind of focus, well, I'm doing good in business,
28:30
Speaker 1: and we don't look at those other areas. And so,
28:33
Speaker 1: you know, gen just talking with them, like you know,
28:36
Speaker 1: so we started this episode with like, hey, if I
28:39
Speaker 1: get this money, if I just get this, this is
28:40
Speaker 1: going to solve my problem.
28:41
Speaker 3: But that there's other.
28:42
Speaker 1: Underlying issues, like you said, narratives lies, there's things in there.
28:46
Speaker 1: And so even like you said, the story of like
28:49
Speaker 1: how you know, how do I play bigger? Well, we
28:51
Speaker 1: all have this this kind of story if you will,
28:54
Speaker 1: whatever level you're playing at, you're playing smaller. We all
28:57
Speaker 1: play better. So how do we you know, in your experience,
29:01
Speaker 1: mat like, how do you help the business owner?
29:04
Speaker 3: How do we get them?
29:05
Speaker 1: So that it starts to put the narrative in a
29:07
Speaker 1: positive direction, in a way that it's like serving not
29:10
Speaker 1: just me, but those in my sphere of influence. You know,
29:14
Speaker 1: So I'm not damaging, like you said, being super critical
29:16
Speaker 1: and just be damaging and leaving a wake of that,
29:18
Speaker 1: and I feel, Okay, I'm good about myself, but really,
29:21
Speaker 1: like you know, start to shift that.
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think I think the first thing is
29:30
Speaker 2: we have to recognize that there's a large part of
29:35
Speaker 2: our worldview that is a story that we have created.
29:39
Speaker 2: Because if we don't take ownership of that fact and
29:44
Speaker 2: the fact that we have the ability to rewrite it, yep,
29:48
Speaker 2: then we'll feel that we're destined or faded to stay
29:52
Speaker 2: within it. And so oftentimes what has done that for
29:57
Speaker 2: me is when I see someone who who was able
30:00
Speaker 2: to break free of the thing that's limiting me, and
30:04
Speaker 2: then it shatters my notion of what's possible. And so
30:09
Speaker 2: one of the ways that you can begin to move
30:12
Speaker 2: through these things is by surrounding yourself with examples of
30:16
Speaker 2: people who have done what you want to do and
30:20
Speaker 2: then realize that the lies and excuses and beliefs that
30:23
Speaker 2: you were clinging to that were holding you back should
30:26
Speaker 2: have held them back too, but they did it anyway. Yeah,
30:31
Speaker 2: And if you're willing to look at it that way,
30:34
Speaker 2: then you realize, like, oh, I have the ability to
30:38
Speaker 2: choose and I can do something different here. I feel
30:42
Speaker 2: like another way of saying it is then this is
30:47
Speaker 2: part of the fundamentals of the stack too. It's like
30:49
Speaker 2: I will throw so many things at you, you'll get triggered. Yes, right,
30:54
Speaker 2: I don't care how the money you have, Like people
30:56
Speaker 2: can say things about you that will hurt.
30:58
Speaker 3: Your feelings trigger right or you know, it's just it
31:03
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
31:05
Speaker 2: Billionaires react all the time. Having more money, does that
31:09
Speaker 2: make you immune to the stings of whether it be
31:13
Speaker 2: approval or name calling or all that kind of stuff,
31:17
Speaker 2: the slander, whatever. So every time you're triggered, that's an
31:21
Speaker 2: opportunity to say, Okay, what is it about me that's
31:24
Speaker 2: not free?
31:26
Speaker 3: Like why does that bother me?
31:27
Speaker 2: Which look very self reflective exercise to examine it like that,
31:32
Speaker 2: and I found that to be immensely helpful.
31:35
Speaker 3: I think there's this other piece of it, which is.
31:40
Speaker 2: The ability to because when you're a high performance individual,
31:44
Speaker 2: when you're a CEO, when you're a business owner, there
31:48
Speaker 2: are tons of people that have something that they want
31:54
Speaker 2: from you, and you can get to this place where
31:57
Speaker 2: you begin to respond instead of to create. We can
32:00
Speaker 2: get this place where you're living in someone else's story.
32:04
Speaker 2: You're a part of their narrative as opposed to the
32:07
Speaker 2: one that you want to create. And it's taking back
32:10
Speaker 2: the ownership of your own life and saying, what is
32:13
Speaker 2: the story that I want as opposed to maybe the
32:17
Speaker 2: one that I'm living in or the ones that others
32:20
Speaker 2: are offering to me. And the difference about being a
32:24
Speaker 2: business owner and doing this when you're an employee, there's
32:26
Speaker 2: often a story that the leadership you're living under, they
32:31
Speaker 2: want you to participate in their story. You can outsource
32:34
Speaker 2: some of your thinking to participate in their game, and
32:38
Speaker 2: you might call that mission values in company culture, right,
32:41
Speaker 2: Like you're playing that game now that it aligns with
32:43
Speaker 2: who you want to become great, but if it's misaligned.
32:46
Speaker 3: It could pull you off course. Right?
32:49
Speaker 2: How many people do you know? Like they're part of
32:50
Speaker 2: a company and organization and maybe there's certain people doing
32:52
Speaker 2: things that are borderline gray or unethical or whatever, but
32:56
Speaker 2: something now they're paying me and it's my job. No,
32:59
Speaker 2: we haven't got caught yet, so I guess I don't know.
33:03
Speaker 3: I guess yes, business yeah, yeah, right right?
33:08
Speaker 2: Some of your business owner when you are the person now,
33:11
Speaker 2: instead of potentially having one unifying framework, you often have
33:16
Speaker 2: a fractured set of stakeholders that are all trying to
33:19
Speaker 2: pull you.
33:19
Speaker 3: In different directions. Yep, And you can allow the desire.
33:23
Speaker 2: To please or appease all the different stakeholders to overrule
33:27
Speaker 2: your ability to create.
33:28
Speaker 3: The life you want. Mm hmm. Yeah.
33:31
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the wanting because I
33:33
Speaker 1: think that's a really key one. I've been reading pan
33:37
Speaker 1: X is Easier than two X with Dan and Bendamn
33:41
Speaker 1: Hardy and and Dan Sullivan in that book. But there's
33:44
Speaker 1: a portion of that book that I want to dig
33:47
Speaker 1: into a little bit here because I think this is
33:48
Speaker 1: really important, the wanting. I had a client like this too.
33:51
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like stories about blah blah, I
33:53
Speaker 1: shouldn't want that, or that's like not appropriate, or I
33:57
Speaker 1: feel like I don't know culture from cultures to religion.
34:03
Speaker 3: There's you know, you know family.
34:05
Speaker 1: I mean there's different things that are in there, Like
34:07
Speaker 1: we said, stories and narratives and like so they're like
34:10
Speaker 1: it's so if you have these this fraction, like I'm
34:13
Speaker 1: trying to piece everything, you're kind of like, really, you
34:17
Speaker 1: look back in your life, like what what would I
34:19
Speaker 1: What did I accomplish? What am I living for? What
34:22
Speaker 1: is am I living? My purpose? Like like you said earlier,
34:26
Speaker 1: my purpose is.
34:26
Speaker 3: Bringing people together.
34:27
Speaker 1: Accomplished great things and and we have the we all
34:30
Speaker 1: have a calling and a purpose, but are we truly
34:32
Speaker 1: living in that or we just kind of being led
34:35
Speaker 1: along with whatever somebody else wants for us? So could
34:38
Speaker 1: you just talk a little bit more about the wanting.
34:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll relate this to my personal life.
34:44
Speaker 2: So, a managing partner of a venture capital firm, I'm
34:48
Speaker 2: getting paid like very well, I mean what most would
34:51
Speaker 2: consider to be like a career defining dream job.
34:56
Speaker 3: And yet I felt like my soul was.
35:01
Speaker 2: Like there was a piece of it that was very
35:03
Speaker 2: metric driven, very quantitative, very methodical. We were building a
35:08
Speaker 2: machine mm hmm. And while I was capable of doing it,
35:16
Speaker 2: it didn't feel like the thing that I was born
35:18
Speaker 2: to do. And I feel like that's almost a more
35:23
Speaker 2: of a trap than doing things because it's your only option,
35:28
Speaker 2: because many people are capable of doing things that others
35:32
Speaker 2: will pay them handsomely to do because it helps accomplish
35:35
Speaker 2: their thing. But it felt like golden handcuffs mm hm.
35:38
Speaker 2: And so I had to wake up to the realization
35:40
Speaker 2: of like, wait a minute, I only my most precious
35:44
Speaker 2: thing is my time and my energy and my focus. Right, money,
35:49
Speaker 2: money is helpful, but only to a point and then
35:52
Speaker 2: it's like what fills me, what makes me feel like
35:54
Speaker 2: I come alive?
35:57
Speaker 3: And so.
36:00
Speaker 2: Here's the way I view it there too. If what
36:03
Speaker 2: you really want, and I feel like this is what
36:05
Speaker 2: most people want, is that sense of like a liveness. Now,
36:10
Speaker 2: we will chase for that in many different ways, like
36:13
Speaker 2: through fantasies, video games, drug addictions, women, whatever, because we're
36:18
Speaker 2: trying to feel live, right, sense of like excitement and
36:22
Speaker 2: like just like yeah right, and so we're often seeking that.
36:27
Speaker 2: But then we'll seek it in all these ways that
36:29
Speaker 2: actually have some sort of corrupted influence in flight.
36:33
Speaker 3: It ye, that can here on.
36:35
Speaker 2: The surface to be gratifying and then it's destructive and
36:39
Speaker 2: eats us from the inside out.
36:41
Speaker 3: But I feel that God.
36:42
Speaker 2: Has put in us this desire for that feeling of aliveness. Yes,
36:47
Speaker 2: and because of that, almost like light hitting your prism,
36:52
Speaker 2: it comes in as white light. And then when you
36:54
Speaker 2: see it against the wall spectrum. To me, that's when
36:59
Speaker 2: people come fully all you get to see the best
37:02
Speaker 2: in them on full display.
37:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the wanting to me in that sense,
37:10
Speaker 2: it like everyone benefits when what you want with pure
37:16
Speaker 2: intention is the thing that you're able to display to
37:19
Speaker 2: the world. And so part of what I do as
37:23
Speaker 2: a coach is I help people figure out how to
37:26
Speaker 2: come alive in that way where everyone is better off
37:30
Speaker 2: and nobody is worse off because you come alive. The
37:35
Speaker 2: opposite of economics, the science of scarcity.
37:39
Speaker 3: Right, and all this kind of stuff.
37:42
Speaker 2: It's like, well, what if in this world it's an abundance,
37:45
Speaker 2: Meaning David, the more that you come alive, that you're
37:48
Speaker 2: walking and you're calling and in your gift and sharing
37:51
Speaker 2: the gift with the world, the better off that I
37:54
Speaker 2: am because I get to enjoy the creation that you're
37:58
Speaker 2: influencing and making right, for example, makes my life better,
38:04
Speaker 2: your generosity, your community, building, what you stand for. I'm
38:08
Speaker 2: better and so is everyone else around you. Now what
38:11
Speaker 2: if I did the same?
38:12
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, now.
38:15
Speaker 2: We're expanding, and what if we went around lighting other
38:17
Speaker 2: people up to live like that?
38:21
Speaker 3: Okay?
38:22
Speaker 2: So when I talk about the wanting, like I feel
38:26
Speaker 2: that there's that longing, that desire, that wanting, the key
38:32
Speaker 2: is to aim it at the right thing. Mm Because
38:36
Speaker 2: you aim it at the right thing and then you
38:38
Speaker 2: come fully alive in a way that is that is
38:40
Speaker 2: pure and servant hearted work.
38:43
Speaker 3: All better off.
38:45
Speaker 2: Right, But if you take that wanting and try to
38:50
Speaker 2: fill it with all of the substitutes that are all
38:54
Speaker 2: promise but no fullness, that's what leads people down to
38:59
Speaker 2: basically hell on Earth, where they're living a life that
39:02
Speaker 2: they regret that they get fleeting pleasures but ultimately is
39:08
Speaker 2: incredibly dissatisfying. So I feel like the want is there
39:12
Speaker 2: as almost a gift, but it has to be like
39:17
Speaker 2: focused in the right area and kept pure. Cain wanted
39:25
Speaker 2: to be the best. There's two ways of doing that.
39:30
Speaker 2: One is to become better and the other is to
39:32
Speaker 2: drag people down. And he chose the second and it
39:37
Speaker 2: destroyed it, right, And so I feel like the wanting,
39:41
Speaker 2: like the wanting is that longing for aliveness and really
39:45
Speaker 2: demonstrating the gifts and being the fullest express of who
39:48
Speaker 2: we were born to be, right, And I think that
39:50
Speaker 2: is a beautiful thing.
39:52
Speaker 3: It is a beautiful thing, and it's energizing.
39:54
Speaker 2: It gives you this fuel to go for stuff because
39:57
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm not going to stop short of that.
40:00
Speaker 2: It's inherently internally driven. You don't have to go outside
40:05
Speaker 2: to get Oh, I might get a medal if I
40:08
Speaker 2: do this or I might get cash if I do this.
40:11
Speaker 2: It becomes something where it's like you can't not.
40:13
Speaker 1: Do it, yeah, yeah, because I know how you feel. Yeah,
40:19
Speaker 1: the feeling that yeah, it comes with that, and you.
40:22
Speaker 2: Know that what you're doing is aligned with what you
40:24
Speaker 2: were born to do. And so as a business owner,
40:31
Speaker 2: that's why it's so critical also to think about doing
40:34
Speaker 2: the things that make them come alive and then giving
40:39
Speaker 2: other people on their team the opportunity of the things
40:41
Speaker 2: which are usually complementary that helps them come alive. And
40:45
Speaker 2: when you have a team where everyone is doing the
40:48
Speaker 2: thing that helps them most alive, that is a culture
40:52
Speaker 2: of vibrancy. Yes, yeah, And that's the business that is
40:58
Speaker 2: a joy to run, that would be incredibly valuable on
41:01
Speaker 2: a sale, but it's also one that you could live
41:04
Speaker 2: forever because you've designed the life that fits within the
41:07
Speaker 2: business yep, where that is a vehicle for the distribution
41:13
Speaker 2: of your talents and gifts to the world mm hmm.
41:17
Speaker 2: And so when you do it through that lens, it's like, oh,
41:20
Speaker 2: that's a different perspective on the business that you build.
41:24
Speaker 3: And the team that you lead.
41:25
Speaker 1: Yes, and I mean you so beautifully, said Matt. I
41:30
Speaker 1: mean there's so I hope if anybody's listening this, go
41:33
Speaker 1: back and listen to what just Matt just said.
41:34
Speaker 3: Again.
41:35
Speaker 1: It's so rich. And I think this is why Matt
41:37
Speaker 1: and I are so connected. I think we're as we're
41:39
Speaker 1: trying to live our purposes out. Matt, you help in
41:42
Speaker 1: the CEOs. I have this passion for the them, but
41:45
Speaker 1: for the team, you know, and I work with the
41:47
Speaker 1: business owners and they're in their their leadership team and
41:50
Speaker 1: building that out and helping them and figure out what
41:52
Speaker 1: what that looks like. You need all these different parts,
41:55
Speaker 1: you know, of the body, so to speak, everybody getting
41:58
Speaker 1: in the right place and knowing that this is what
42:00
Speaker 1: I do best and not resenting it, not not saying,
42:04
Speaker 1: you know, I'm the hand, I really want to be
42:06
Speaker 1: the foot or you know, whatever that may case might be,
42:08
Speaker 1: but really just.
42:09
Speaker 3: Knowing that and I think, you know, it's challenging.
42:13
Speaker 1: I think, Matt, as I talked with folks and go
42:16
Speaker 1: this to myself, like you said too, we have I
42:19
Speaker 1: think our purpose and I love your thought on this.
42:22
Speaker 3: I think our.
42:22
Speaker 1: Purpose is is through our life, you know. I think
42:28
Speaker 1: God God has instilled that from the beginning. He knew
42:31
Speaker 1: what we were going to be doing. I think it
42:32
Speaker 1: took me a while to figure that out of truly
42:35
Speaker 1: what is my purpose and then figure out how to
42:38
Speaker 1: filter that and feel good about it, and then figure
42:41
Speaker 1: out what it is and what do I do in
42:43
Speaker 1: different stages of life with that purpose. I'll give you
42:46
Speaker 1: an example, Matt, because I was a I think, I
42:51
Speaker 1: don't know if you know you even do this. I
42:52
Speaker 1: went right out of DJ business for some time. I
42:54
Speaker 1: did this, and I did weddings and all sorts of things.
42:56
Speaker 3: It was fun.
42:56
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. My whole thing is bringing people together
42:59
Speaker 1: to accomplish great things, having an amazing experience. But I recognized,
43:02
Speaker 1: you know, when I when my daughter was really young,
43:05
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed that. It was an ego thing too.
43:07
Speaker 1: I enjoyed just doing that, but I realized had to
43:08
Speaker 1: let that go. Even though I could do it, I'd
43:10
Speaker 1: just spend time and my purposes of being there for
43:13
Speaker 1: my family, bring my family together. So the purpose never
43:16
Speaker 1: really changed, but I had to adjust it based in
43:18
Speaker 1: the situation, in the time of life, you know, and
43:22
Speaker 1: so you know, to get to what you're saying is
43:24
Speaker 1: to get better.
43:25
Speaker 3: Get that.
43:27
Speaker 1: I love that kind of prism analogy of getting to
43:29
Speaker 1: that rainbow instead of being a little cloudy and not
43:31
Speaker 1: quite clear coming through, but it's as pure as it
43:35
Speaker 1: could to see that rainbow. We always kind of see
43:37
Speaker 1: we see rainbows, right, and you see when you see
43:39
Speaker 1: rainbow that's really vibrant. You see the rainbows that are
43:41
Speaker 1: kind of like, eh, you can kind of see it,
43:43
Speaker 1: but it's not all there, right.
43:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
43:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so what is the what is the question
43:50
Speaker 2: if you were to frame it up, which is like
43:52
Speaker 2: how do you find it?
43:54
Speaker 3: Yeah?
43:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess so I just you know, as
43:57
Speaker 1: you talk with CEOs, for example, there's differ and stages
44:00
Speaker 1: in a business, and like their purpose, there's different things
44:03
Speaker 1: in a growth. I work with a lot of business
44:05
Speaker 1: owners where where they start doing certain things in the
44:07
Speaker 1: business because it's a certain stage of the business.
44:11
Speaker 3: But you don't so doing those things.
44:13
Speaker 1: That activity per se, but your purpose is still the same,
44:17
Speaker 1: but you have to adjust based on where you are
44:19
Speaker 1: in the life cycle of the business.
44:20
Speaker 3: Let's just say so.
44:23
Speaker 1: Just talk a little bit about how you live out
44:24
Speaker 1: your purpose in different stages of your life as a
44:27
Speaker 1: stage of the business.
44:30
Speaker 2: So I have a few thoughts on this one of
44:32
Speaker 2: which is your purpose is a bigger concept and kind
44:39
Speaker 2: of transcends the notion of whatever tasks you're doing in
44:42
Speaker 2: a moment. And then there's another piece, which is like
44:46
Speaker 2: how do you direct your life and what are you
44:49
Speaker 2: aiming at? And there were different periods in my life
44:54
Speaker 2: where there was a mountain ahead of me that I
44:57
Speaker 2: was climbing. I was dead set, that's the mountain I'm
45:00
Speaker 2: supposed to climb, okay. And the beautiful thing about a
45:03
Speaker 2: mountain is you can see it from wherever you are right,
45:08
Speaker 2: so if you're in the valley, whatever, it's like, it becomes.
45:10
Speaker 3: That thing that you're aiming towards. Yep.
45:13
Speaker 2: And what happened is I would begin to approach the
45:16
Speaker 2: mountain and then realize that I was aiming at the
45:21
Speaker 2: wrong mountain, and I had to sacrifice the mountain, okay,
45:27
Speaker 2: which feels like a death in a way, because there
45:30
Speaker 2: was something I was setting out to do. And then
45:33
Speaker 2: what I realized is the mountain was my landmark. It
45:37
Speaker 2: wasn't my destination, but by having it as the landmark,
45:43
Speaker 2: I propelled myself down along the path, and from that
45:47
Speaker 2: forward place on the path the real path became visible.
45:51
Speaker 2: That was invisible to me at the beginning and would
45:55
Speaker 2: have remained forever invisible had I not pursued what I
45:58
Speaker 2: thought was the destination, which was the mountain.
46:00
Speaker 3: In front of me.
46:01
Speaker 2: M but that opened up and then I realized, like, ah,
46:07
Speaker 2: it was for direction. It wasn't where I was supposed
46:10
Speaker 2: to climb and dwell.
46:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay.
46:13
Speaker 2: So as a for instance, I'm in the military, I'm
46:15
Speaker 2: doing well. They want to keep you in the military
46:17
Speaker 2: when you're doing well, and so they try to retain you.
46:21
Speaker 2: And I had a captain fly out from Japan talk
46:24
Speaker 2: to me in Hawaii to try to talk me out
46:26
Speaker 2: of leaving the military. And we're sitting there's a little
46:33
Speaker 2: eating place called the Kno Brewing Company in Hawaii Kai.
46:36
Speaker 3: It's right on the marina.
46:38
Speaker 2: We're sitting there at a table, and I was a
46:41
Speaker 2: little disgruntled because I felt like there was no meritocracy
46:44
Speaker 2: in the military. Right in the early years. You all
46:47
Speaker 2: kind of advanced around the same pace. It's the you
46:50
Speaker 2: get the rank if you can fog a mirror, if
46:52
Speaker 2: you're breathing, you keep going right, And it was like,
46:56
Speaker 2: you know, don't miss the ship when it leaves, and
46:59
Speaker 2: you know, don't kill anyone, and don't get a dui.
47:02
Speaker 3: If you avoid those three, like, you'll keep going.
47:06
Speaker 2: Well that's me felt like a pretty low bar, right,
47:09
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, you know, it just feels
47:12
Speaker 2: like it's a big machine. It needs to survive without me, right.
47:15
Speaker 2: And he was making the opposite case, which is like,
47:19
Speaker 2: you know that meritocracy kicks in. It just takes a
47:21
Speaker 2: little bit longer, but you'll get the choice assignments, you'll
47:24
Speaker 2: get more responsibility, you'll go further all which is also true, right.
47:28
Speaker 2: And I was, you know, younger and probably a little less.
47:31
Speaker 3: Clear on how that would play out, yep.
47:34
Speaker 2: And he said to me, I would give a body
47:37
Speaker 2: part for you to stay in the Navy. I said, sir,
47:42
Speaker 2: please don't specify which one. So after we laughed it off,
47:52
Speaker 2: he's like, you're getting out, aren't you. And I had
47:56
Speaker 2: a letter in hand to go to Harvard Business School,
47:58
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, I'm getting out, okay, Because
48:01
Speaker 2: what I'd realized is that the mountain that I was
48:04
Speaker 2: pursuing helped me become very good at what I did,
48:08
Speaker 2: and had I known all the different detours in the path,
48:12
Speaker 2: I probably would have become distracted too soon and trying
48:14
Speaker 2: to solve for those before it was my time for them. Ultimately,
48:20
Speaker 2: I feel like our purpose is to grow into that
48:22
Speaker 2: version of ourselves that we were born to be, where
48:24
Speaker 2: we get to exhibit our gifts and do that in
48:28
Speaker 2: such a way that is honorable. Ye, so that we
48:31
Speaker 2: bring honor on our creator through how we live.
48:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, But how that purpose manifests can often be in
48:39
Speaker 4: these different sprints that give us the ability to focus
48:43
Speaker 4: on where we are and as one scripture says, being
48:46
Speaker 4: faithful in the little things. Yeah, and then what happens
48:50
Speaker 4: gradually then happens suddenly. So there will be the daily
48:56
Speaker 4: activities of faithfulness where called that unlocked doors that are
49:01
Speaker 4: invisible to us in the moment, that only become visible
49:04
Speaker 4: when they're opened. And you can say, like that's the
49:08
Speaker 4: favor that kind of kicks in, and then a new
49:11
Speaker 4: way of that purpose showing itself in the world opens
49:14
Speaker 4: up at that point. That's this beautiful thing. But if
49:18
Speaker 4: we think.
49:19
Speaker 2: Everything happens incrementally, we'll think we're far away. If we
49:22
Speaker 2: think everything happens instantly, we won't do the work. And
49:26
Speaker 2: so it's the patience while you're developing. And I feel
49:30
Speaker 2: like this comes full circle to me because raising capital
49:35
Speaker 2: and being worthy of the capital you want to raise
49:37
Speaker 2: and ready to handle it when it comes yea ours
49:41
Speaker 2: patience and diligence and faithfulness in the little things so
49:46
Speaker 2: that when you carry more weight, you can withstand that
49:50
Speaker 2: and it doesn't wipe you out, but it's manageable at
49:54
Speaker 2: that point. And so many of the things that you
49:56
Speaker 2: know as you're building a business, there'll be things where
49:59
Speaker 2: you might say this beneath me. But there's a humility
50:03
Speaker 2: in doing what is required in the moment to achieve
50:07
Speaker 2: the outcome that gives you the ability to outgrow it.
50:11
Speaker 2: But if you never do it, you won't be able
50:13
Speaker 2: to outgrow it and get to the level or be
50:16
Speaker 2: able to lead effectively those who are now doing it,
50:19
Speaker 2: because you can relate.
50:20
Speaker 3: To what it took to be in the trenches.
50:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So as a leader now there comes times
50:29
Speaker 2: and places where you cannot do all the work that
50:31
Speaker 2: the people under you can do because there's technical knowledge
50:34
Speaker 2: that is just impossible to learn in one lifetime.
50:36
Speaker 3: Yep.
50:38
Speaker 2: But there's a spirit of the willingness to have done
50:41
Speaker 2: the work and that nothing is beneath them, and that
50:44
Speaker 2: all work in some ways is actually sacred if it's
50:46
Speaker 2: done with the right heart and right purpose. So then
50:49
Speaker 2: from that place you lead differently. You don't view people
50:52
Speaker 2: as cogs in your machine. You view them as humans
50:56
Speaker 2: with the soul that are also developing along their paths.
50:59
Speaker 2: You lead differently, You treat them differently, You honor them
51:02
Speaker 2: on the path, even if it means that they no
51:04
Speaker 2: longer have a spot on your team. That shows up
51:07
Speaker 2: in how you let people go. Yeah, how you develop people.
51:11
Speaker 2: The whole thing, what you tolerate and what you don't
51:13
Speaker 2: tolerate comes from that place, and that then enables you
51:18
Speaker 2: to feelulfill the purpose, which is becoming that version of
51:22
Speaker 2: you that you most respect and admire and know that
51:26
Speaker 2: you did everything you possibly could. To me, that's big
51:30
Speaker 2: picture of purpose.
51:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, did I you? You?
51:35
Speaker 1: You We're gonna have to do a part two, Matt,
51:37
Speaker 1: because you this is like so so so so much here.
51:42
Speaker 1: But you know what what I you know, I want
51:45
Speaker 1: people to recognize that this is this is the beauty
51:48
Speaker 1: of having a coach like yourself.
51:50
Speaker 3: Matt.
51:50
Speaker 1: Is like, because this is this is very difficult to
51:52
Speaker 1: do on your own. To have somebody else come along
51:55
Speaker 1: the side you that's gone before you, that experienced a
51:58
Speaker 1: lot of these things, and you know, can look at
52:01
Speaker 1: it from outside and and and be kind of a
52:04
Speaker 1: mirror back to you. And I think, you know so
52:08
Speaker 1: how because I definitely want to come have you come back, Matt.
52:11
Speaker 1: But how can people find and connect with you? Because
52:15
Speaker 1: I think you know, as you're if you're listening to
52:17
Speaker 1: this and you're a CEO, or you're like looking, I'm
52:19
Speaker 1: probably gonna get some big capital coming in, or I'm
52:21
Speaker 1: gonna be looking at this equity or or you know,
52:24
Speaker 1: if you're not strong enough to handle it, you know,
52:26
Speaker 1: I mean we all think about coaches in sports, but
52:29
Speaker 1: think about coaches in business just the same way.
52:31
Speaker 3: Right.
52:31
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're there to help you. And you
52:34
Speaker 1: have a great advocate in Matt here. That's why I
52:36
Speaker 1: have him on the podcast because I know him personally,
52:38
Speaker 1: I know what he stands for. Uh. And how like
52:42
Speaker 1: I said, you're living your purpose, mat and and where
52:45
Speaker 1: you've moved from the venture capital and others into this
52:48
Speaker 1: coaching space specifically, just as I have in my own
52:50
Speaker 1: my own personal journey as well, you know, in parallel
52:54
Speaker 1: with you. But how how do people find you? What's
52:56
Speaker 1: what's the where's the where's the way to connect with
52:58
Speaker 1: you and they can in you a conversation.
53:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, no, thanks David for giving me the opportunity.
53:04
Speaker 2: And it's it's kind of like I love this, Like
53:09
Speaker 2: I have found nothing more fulfilling than having a powerful.
53:12
Speaker 3: Conversation with somebody.
53:13
Speaker 2: Yes, that helps them see more objectively like what's going
53:18
Speaker 2: on with themselves because I can do that without the
53:21
Speaker 2: same level of emotional entanglement because I'm an outsider, but
53:26
Speaker 2: also see things in them that can kind of hold
53:29
Speaker 2: that mirror up so that they can begin to work
53:32
Speaker 2: on becoming that version of themselves so they can live
53:35
Speaker 2: their purpose.
53:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
53:36
Speaker 2: Right, And so that's the part that I love about it.
53:39
Speaker 2: And often it's helpful to have someone that knows you
53:43
Speaker 2: well enough and can hold space for that conversation to
53:48
Speaker 2: take place. Yep, create that opening. Sometimes that's all is required,
53:52
Speaker 2: and then from there you can go forward. So Matt
53:55
Speaker 2: Wilson two dot zero on Instagram. They can also find
53:58
Speaker 2: me on LinkedIn my company name as Yellow Brick Method
54:02
Speaker 2: And like right now I'm working, you know, one on
54:05
Speaker 2: one with CEOs of fast growing companies. I love it
54:09
Speaker 2: because I can bring all of my business background as
54:12
Speaker 2: well as everything I've learned about life and living and
54:15
Speaker 2: leadership and military and martial arts and all of that,
54:18
Speaker 2: which just like help them. And like, here's the thing.
54:21
Speaker 2: I think coaching used to be thought of as like, oh,
54:24
Speaker 2: you need a coach because you're not up to the task.
54:28
Speaker 2: What I've found and who I work with. These are
54:31
Speaker 2: people that are already most would consider ultra successful, that
54:35
Speaker 2: recognize that there's other levels they can go to and
54:37
Speaker 2: they want to.
54:37
Speaker 3: Unpack those more quickly. Yes, and so.
54:40
Speaker 2: It's not a crutch as much as as a rocket booster.
54:44
Speaker 2: But the beautiful thing is, like I help as a guide.
54:48
Speaker 3: They're the hero. This is their life.
54:50
Speaker 2: And so if someone's fine with where they are and
54:54
Speaker 2: they don't really need help and don't really want to
54:56
Speaker 2: go to like, you know, ten levels above where they.
54:58
Speaker 3: Are, I can't force them to do that, right, But
55:03
Speaker 3: if they're.
55:03
Speaker 2: Hungry and they know there's more they can unlock. Once
55:07
Speaker 2: you start hitting down this path, like you begin to
55:10
Speaker 2: hire coaches for all kinds of things because you want
55:12
Speaker 2: to get better faster and borrow the wisdom of someone
55:15
Speaker 2: ahead of you.
55:15
Speaker 3: Yep, right, Like let's go let's go. Let's go coach
55:21
Speaker 3: marriage coach.
55:22
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, hey, I want to become
55:25
Speaker 2: better at all of these things. The best in the
55:27
Speaker 2: world surround themselves with advisors, speak into them. And then
55:31
Speaker 2: what that gives you the ability to do, which is
55:33
Speaker 2: impossible to do on your own, is get feedback. Yeah,
55:36
Speaker 2: and feedback is fuel for transformation.
55:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, and I live that being in Theware
55:43
Speaker 1: Council together and you know, keep continuing collaboration. And that's
55:46
Speaker 1: why I have you and uh, you know other amazing
55:50
Speaker 1: guests here because the value you bring, the way you
55:53
Speaker 1: live your life. And honestly, Matt, so for those of
55:56
Speaker 1: you that are are just like wondering, don't you know,
56:00
Speaker 1: just if you're any inkling like I want to go,
56:03
Speaker 1: then you know, talk with Matt, talk with me.
56:05
Speaker 3: That's whole the point of Business Business.
56:07
Speaker 1: Round Table podcast is provide value, to provide a resource
56:09
Speaker 1: for you. Come see check it out and and then
56:13
Speaker 1: you know, I know Matt would be a great resource.
56:15
Speaker 1: You're based down here right here in southern California. Know
56:17
Speaker 1: you serve ever go all over but you know, Matt
56:20
Speaker 1: and I are both down here so cal But you know,
56:22
Speaker 1: so reach out, you know how to connect with Matt. Matt,
56:24
Speaker 1: we would love to have you back again here on
56:26
Speaker 1: the podcast. You'll have some other we wor trainers on
56:29
Speaker 1: here and whatnot and have a round table. But thank
56:31
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us on the on the
56:33
Speaker 1: podcast and appreciate all your insights.
56:36
Speaker 3: Thank you.
56:37
Speaker 2: It's great to be here and I'm excited for what
56:39
Speaker 2: you're doing. I love being on this journey with you.
56:41
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Bye everybody,