Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / Why Controlling Your Horse Creates More Problems with Avery Sullivan | Episode 66

Transcript

Why Controlling Your Horse Creates More Problems with Avery Sullivan | Episode 66 · The Touch of a Mustang

0:00
You mentioned there were some things in the competitive world
0:02
that you weren't necessarily comfortable with.
0:04
Or there was this horse who very clearly had bloody wealth on its
0:09
side, also happened to be the horse that was winning every
0:12
single class we were in. Frequent and found the most
0:15
dangerous probably. Meaning most at risk.
0:18
Also one that was an Appalachian brumby.
0:21
He was a most feral horse either of us had ever met.
0:24
He was going to kill himself. You went from a world where
0:28
people want total control to where like we have no control.
0:32
The horses can choose to do whatever they would like to do
0:35
through just. Slowly building and
0:37
understanding, I found that the more that we let go, the more
0:44
that it forces us to really listen to where a horse is at.
0:47
Is every horse able to build a relationship with a human that
0:51
can be healthy for both parties? All horses can't have a
0:54
relationship, just sometimes it's a little different than
0:56
what we might originally planned for.
0:59
There are healers on this planet with the power to soften the
1:02
suffering of mankind if they have remained in the recesses of
1:05
the world, abused, discarded and labeled as trash.
1:10
This is the touch of a Mustang. I am your host, Shalise Clough,
1:15
and I'm here to tell the story of wild horses, Mustangs, and
1:18
the humans who are discovering and sharing their gifts while
1:22
working to protect their well-being and preserve their
1:24
spirit so this divine power won't be lost.
1:28
Join us on this quest with the Wild Mustang.
1:37
Avery, thanks so much for being here on the podcast.
1:40
Yeah, thank you for having me. To start with, can you tell
1:43
everybody that's listening a little bit more about you and
1:45
who you are and what you do? Yeah, absolutely.
1:48
So my name is Avery Sullivan. I have been kind of with horses
1:53
since before I can remember the typical little Crazy Horse girl
1:56
taking lessons every time she could and then slowly over the
2:02
years has developed into now also, you know, my work and
2:06
career as well, which was not what I anticipated when I first
2:09
started with horses. So the the biggest things that I
2:11
do is my husband Patrick is also very involved in horses.
2:15
And so we met about six years ago and now do kind of some cool
2:23
things with our nonprofit and our liberty organization.
2:26
So I'm very passionate about liberty, horsemanship, rideless
2:31
riding and also rescue horses. So those are really the biggest
2:34
things that we focus on. And one of the avenues we do
2:38
that is through a nonprofit called Gimme a Unbridled, and
2:41
that started with actually him doing a ride across the country
2:47
from California to Kentucky, completely bridal less on his
2:51
two Arabian horses. And throughout that whole trip,
2:54
the biggest, I think most exciting part was stopping at a
2:57
lot of different nonprofits, which were both rescues and, you
3:01
know, different organizations working with veterans, with
3:04
youth, with, you know, you name it, kind of had a little bit of
3:06
everything. And I was able to be on for a
3:09
portion of that trip as the driver.
3:12
Not So. That's how it all kind of
3:13
started. And through that, the trip ended
3:16
and we both felt like there's this huge missing piece in the
3:21
horse industry, especially with nonprofits, with rescues, with
3:26
Mustangs as well, with a lack of education.
3:29
And so that really LED us to dive into the next couple
3:32
projects that we had. One of them was called the
3:35
Rescue Project. And through that, we took in
3:38
seven of the toughest rescues that we could find around the
3:41
country, really wide array. You know, some were totally
3:44
feral, some were not feral, but had been dangerous.
3:47
They were from, you know, from kill pens.
3:48
So really diverse group of horses.
3:53
And we took them in and spent four months working with them
3:57
just at liberty. And the goal was to show that
3:59
when you give these horses the choice, the freedom to choose,
4:02
and you try and meet them where they're at and educate them that
4:05
way, that it's a really powerful way to help them transform and
4:09
let go of some of the baggage that they may have.
4:12
And so that was just a really, you know, incredible experience
4:16
that we learned a lot from. And all the horses through that
4:19
ended up being adopted or a couple of them we ended up
4:22
keeping, which then kind of led to where we are now, where we've
4:25
continued to progress with these horses.
4:28
And we now have a Liberty team that are all rescue horses that
4:31
work together. And we travel to different
4:34
places, still work a lot with nonprofits on education and
4:37
trying to use these horses to show just how amazing they can
4:41
be if they're given kind of that freedom.
4:43
So that's really, I think that the biggest stuff that we've
4:47
done over the past couple of years that people are familiar
4:50
with. We also recently started a
4:52
liberty organization, which is called Equine Liberty
4:55
Organization, and that is dedicated to helping people
4:59
participate liberty with their horses.
5:01
And so it's a has, we have shows both virtual in person academies
5:05
and kind of different learning events.
5:07
And it's really designed to help give people a place, you know,
5:10
to go to do liberty, to progress with their horses and not just,
5:14
you know, you learn it and then there's not really anywhere to
5:16
go with it. So those are really the two
5:18
things that I'm super passionate about it.
5:21
Yeah. Beautiful.
5:21
Yeah. And let's back up a little bit.
5:23
So you started pretty young riding horses and it sounded
5:27
like that was more competitive when you started.
5:29
Yeah, so I started riding when I was 6 at a traditional lesson
5:33
barn where, you know, you would go and your horse was kind of
5:36
tied up and maybe you were lucky you got to tack them up.
5:39
But it was very much focused on getting on your horse and, you
5:42
know, trotting around and learning how to ride.
5:45
It kind of got into 4H and did 4H for my whole childhood, and
5:50
that involved a lot of competitions.
5:52
I ended up getting my first horse and boarding at a barn
5:55
that did the Quarter Horse circuit shows.
5:58
So it was a lot of competing and that was a blessing and a curse.
6:03
I think it taught me a lot, but I always kind of struggled in
6:07
the traditional competition world because I either I didn't
6:10
have the right horse for it or B, wasn't willing to do the
6:13
things that the traders told me I needed to do to be able to be
6:18
competitive. So that kind of led me after I
6:21
graduated high school to step back and focus more on just
6:26
enjoying my horses. And that's why I never intended
6:29
for them to really become such a big part of my career as they as
6:32
they have. And through that kind of
6:35
stepping back, I changed directions a little bit and got
6:38
my first Mustang through the Extreme Mustang Makeover.
6:42
It was the youth. Nice, love to hear about the
6:44
Mustangs. Yeah.
6:45
So she really helped change that trajectory for me because it was
6:49
either I was going to, you know, get a horse that would be a
6:52
better fit for doing the shows that I was used to doing or
6:56
going a totally different path. Well, they clearly did really
6:59
good with their mailings because they mailed it right to my house
7:01
and directed it to me and said, Hey, you should apply to do this
7:04
Mustang makeover. And as a, you know, little 1617
7:08
year old, I was like, that's a perfect.
7:10
It's so exciting. I want to start a Mustang.
7:13
And so through her doing that competition, that really shifted
7:17
because then I had, you know, this little yearling Mustang
7:19
that I had to figure out how to start and train and, you know,
7:23
keep to learn more about the natural horsemanship and then
7:26
liberty and kind of my path here today.
7:29
What were some of the things that pushed you in that
7:31
direction? You kind of mentioned even
7:33
before there were some things in the competitive world that you
7:36
weren't necessarily comfortable with.
7:37
How did that end up solidifying that you really did want to
7:42
learn a different way with horses?
7:43
Yeah, that's a great question. Really, there were so many
7:47
little things that, you know, when I think back of my
7:51
experiences growing up with horses, you know, I did not have
7:55
the luxury of having these fancy, you know, wild bred
7:58
horses that to just go into the Chopins and do well.
8:02
And a lot of my friends did. And at the time it was just
8:06
frustrating, you know, as a kids perspective because I really
8:08
didn't understand it. But there was another piece of
8:11
it where I was seeing, you know, what these people were having to
8:15
do, how they were having to ride, that they were needing
8:17
bigger bits, bigger spurs, you know, put a tie down on, do
8:21
this, do that, lunge your horse for two hours, All of these
8:24
things that just didn't feel right to me.
8:27
And I just really finally hit this point after going to a show
8:32
when I was, it was just before I ended up doing the makeover.
8:35
And I went to the show and I remember there was this horse
8:39
who very clearly had bloody welts on its side.
8:43
And I was devastated. I thought it was, you know,
8:46
horrible. How could that be happening?
8:48
And it also happened to be the horse that was winning every
8:51
single class we were in. And, you know, they just would
8:54
spray paint over the welts and go in the class.
8:56
And yeah, it was just so disheartening.
9:00
And we actually ended up reporting it and nothing really
9:03
came of it. Right, Because she was the one
9:06
winning and paying the the money to the entry fees.
9:09
And so I think that was a big turning point of like, OK, if
9:13
this is what it's going to be, I don't want to do it.
9:15
You know, I'm a very competitive person.
9:17
I love having goals. I love having things to work
9:20
towards. And I think it's important for
9:21
us as as people to have those things, but not at the expense
9:25
of our horses. And so that really was the final
9:28
straw for me and helped me see, OK, we're going to just try
9:31
something different. And, you know, maybe that'll end
9:34
up finding a different way to compete or maybe it will just
9:36
end up working with horses in a different way.
9:38
But that really, you know, the accumulation of all those things
9:41
helped me hit a point where I was like, it's time to try
9:43
something different. And it was pretty soon after
9:45
that that you ended up with Mustangs during the Mustang
9:48
makeover. What was that experience like?
9:50
Yeah, I was probably like maybe a year after maybe a couple, but
9:55
yeah, so I, I really, it's funny, like I was so excited
10:02
about this and like wanted to be as prepared as possible.
10:05
So I was actually at the point where I was saving up to get my
10:08
first car. And on the application it says
10:12
and they need 6 foot round pen panels and we had round pen
10:15
panels but they were 5 foot. And I am like a type A rule
10:18
follower and I have since learned that many people just
10:21
cut don't have 6 foot round pen panel but I did not.
10:25
There's some interesting ways, yeah.
10:27
Yeah, they're all hard. And so I was like, OK, well you
10:29
know what, I'm just going to wait and I won't get a car right
10:31
now. I'm going to use the money I've
10:32
saved to get a six foot round pen panels.
10:35
And so I get those panels and we drive all the way out to
10:39
Illinois, which were from Maine and from Maine living there now.
10:43
So it's a very far drive. I get out there and it was a
10:48
torrential downpour. Just a this dreary day was
10:52
really gross out and went to look at the pen and got my
10:55
number. And so I went and looked and
10:58
that horse that I saw was actually clearly had some sort
11:02
of lateness. And so my very first initial
11:04
thought was like, oh, this is not going to work right.
11:07
I can't take home a horse that clearly lame.
11:09
It had horses of lameness issues in the past.
11:11
So I was started off pretty devastated.
11:13
And then I go in and they say, oh don't worry, we'll have an
11:16
alternate that you know we can give you.
11:18
And so they give me the alternate number and I go out
11:21
and it is the smallest little yearling in the entire pad.
11:25
So we get her loaded up, we drive her home and it's still a
11:29
joke. Now we unload her into those 6
11:31
foot panels and Oh my God it was like a big.
11:34
My goodness, you got them and spent your money for a yearling,
11:37
right? Exactly.
11:38
I mean, she was the tiniest little thing.
11:41
I probably could have pushed her over myself, but you know, we
11:44
did it and it was worth it. And you know, her, her size made
11:48
her look like she was just, you know, going to be a piece of
11:50
cake. But she actually is one of the
11:54
most opinionated, fiest, long willed, smartest little horses I
11:58
have ever worked with. And she taught me so much over,
12:03
you know, first those 9000 days and then I still have her today.
12:07
So over the years afterwards, she really has taught me a lot.
12:12
It's, it's very interesting because you know, there are
12:16
horses that are feral that we work with that are not Mustangs.
12:20
But I think the Mustangs, there's just something different
12:22
about them in that, you know, they were bred to survive and
12:26
they are so innately smart and so in tune with their natural
12:30
instincts in a way that we as people don't normally have to,
12:35
you know, work with. And so I learned so much through
12:39
that experience, and she also helped me find some more tools
12:44
that I needed to work on in my horsemanship.
12:46
So it led me to get more help from other people and really
12:50
bring me to the path where I am today.
12:51
Nice. And then soon after that you
12:54
started in liberty. Or when did the liberty come
12:56
into your story? So the liberty came a couple
12:59
years after that I finished the makeover.
13:02
And you know, the youth keep their horses at that at that
13:07
time. So I kept her and was then had
13:10
moved my horses home. We for the first time ever, my
13:12
family lived a place where for the first time ever we were able
13:15
to bring our horses home. And so at the time I had three
13:19
horses that were at home and my mom and I would ride and just
13:22
kind of for fun. And it was really kind of a
13:24
break in my horsemanship in that there was nothing competitive.
13:28
I had no big goals. I was just enjoying my horses,
13:31
trail riding, riding in the field.
13:32
And it was wonderful and probably would have continued
13:36
that way, but probably probably about two or so years after
13:39
that, I got convinced to do a Liberty clinic with Dan James of
13:44
Double Dan Horsemanship. And I was pretty burnt out on
13:49
clinics at that point because as mentioned before, I had gone to
13:53
a lot of experiences where it was just go somewhere and feel
13:57
pretty disheartened by the way they're approaching things or to
14:02
hear that my horse isn't going to be able to do it anyway.
14:04
So, you know, I wasn't really looking to continue to, you
14:09
know, learn at that point in a clinic setting.
14:12
But the bar that I used to board out, she convinced me to go and
14:15
I went there and spent three days learning about Liberty and
14:19
instantly hooked. I thought it was so cool.
14:22
It was so amazing. And, and all it was was that my
14:25
horse is following me a couple steps.
14:27
There was no big fancy things that we see now or that we're
14:32
working on now. It was just simply, I can let my
14:34
horse go and they want to be with me and they are choosing to
14:38
connect with me. And that was really just such an
14:42
eye opening experience. I've done, you know, natural
14:44
horsemanship, learned a lot about groundwork and kind of
14:48
approaching things a little bit differently over the years
14:50
through that. And I'd really enjoyed that and
14:52
it helped shift me away from that kind of show training
14:56
viewpoints. But this was like the next
14:58
level. And after doing that, you know,
15:01
just went back to that was in the fall.
15:04
I went and kind of played with it with my horses over the
15:06
winter and then ended up getting invited out to intern that next
15:11
spring at Dance Farm in Kentucky.
15:13
And so I had just graduated college.
15:16
And so I was like, OK, well, this is a good time to go and do
15:20
it. And so I went drove down to
15:21
Kentucky with my horse Leo for the month and spent that month
15:26
learning and, you know, progressing more.
15:29
And I just was continuing to just love liberty and learned a
15:31
lot of other things there too. But that was really what stuck
15:34
with me. But after the month, I went home
15:36
and I still was planning, OK, let me start my my full time job
15:41
and, you know, have my horses be for fun.
15:43
And then that next spring, Dan and his wife actually called.
15:47
They said, Hey, we need some extra help for this, you know,
15:49
training program that we're having.
15:51
And we were just wondering if you want to come down for
15:52
another month And OK, I'm gonna job.
15:56
Horses. I don't know.
15:57
Probably shouldn't. It was COVID, so I was like,
16:00
these are quieter and I was working remotely.
16:03
So that definitely I think helped to convince me yeah to do
16:07
it. And so I went down and instead
16:10
of a month, I ended up being there for a year and a half and
16:13
becoming the assistant trainer there, meeting my husband there.
16:16
And that really led me to then the next thing was going on the
16:20
cross country trip. Yeah, neat.
16:22
And tell us about that trip. I remember seeing Patrick doing
16:26
that with his. Wasn't that a little black
16:27
Arabian? Yeah.
16:28
So like, I saw that on a lot. Yeah.
16:30
I have a special place in my heart for Arabians also.
16:33
That's what I grew up with. So Mustangs and Arabians, all
16:35
the horses everybody's like stay away from.
16:37
Those are my horses. I love it.
16:39
Yeah. We, we are the same way.
16:42
Yeah. That that trip was in 2021.
16:46
And yes, it was on his little black Arabian, Gammy and her
16:50
brother Hal. So he took those two horses so
16:52
they could alternate. And I remember.
16:54
So we, you know, met in Kentucky there and he kind of told me
16:57
about the trip. And, you know, we had kind of
17:01
just started dating when he was really planning it and, and
17:03
getting ready to go that April. And it was that fall before.
17:06
And I was like, OK, OK, just seems like a really ambitious,
17:12
you know, but I'm going to be crazy, a little crazy.
17:16
You know, you seem really determined.
17:18
And people that don't know Patrick don't realize he is type
17:23
B all the way. So he is not a planner.
17:27
I can't even tell you that the way he just went into that trip
17:31
with half the things like it'll all work out.
17:34
I mean, they didn't even have a truck and trailer until like a
17:36
week before they left. It was, it was a lot of kind of
17:40
chaos leading up to it and thinking a little bit in the
17:43
back of my mind, like, is this really going to happen?
17:46
Are you going to be? And he did.
17:48
He made it happen. And, and he and his sister
17:51
Nettie started the trip, but she was actually pregnant when, when
17:55
she started it, boy, she, she could only go so long and she
18:00
went until like 8 months pregnant.
18:02
I mean, she was, that's amazing, amazing.
18:06
She's an amazing person. But when she had to kind of tap
18:10
out there, that's when I came and finished up the trip.
18:12
And it was really, it was such a cool experience.
18:16
And I didn't, you know, I had a couple days where I rode, we had
18:19
some extra help, but most days I was just navigating and driving
18:24
the trailer and, you know, helping when we went to the
18:27
different nonprofits to teach and introduce people to the
18:30
horses. And it was really amazing to see
18:34
the horses and the way that through that ride, they just
18:38
became the most amazing partners.
18:41
And you can literally see like Gammy learn to look both ways
18:45
across the street before she crossed it.
18:48
You know, it's just they're such intelligent.
18:50
And when we give them the opportunity to think and to, you
18:55
know, make their own choices within these boundaries, it's
18:57
just, you know, amazing the, the confidence that both those
19:01
horses developed in themselves in their partnership.
19:04
It was just really beautiful to see.
19:05
And, you know, stopping and teaching at these different
19:08
places as well. We met so many different amazing
19:11
people doing amazing work that we still are connected with
19:14
today, which, which is another beautiful piece of that.
19:17
You know, I think it, it started a really cool community.
19:21
But the biggest thing for me was just seeing the horses handle
19:25
that entire ride and just every single day, even when there was
19:29
challenges, they were OK. They, they felt secure.
19:34
And you know, I don't think there was really a single time
19:36
that he didn't feel confident and trusted with his horse,
19:39
which I think is really a mind blowing thing when you think
19:43
about riding your horse. Toughest parts of it were
19:46
absolutely the cars, and not because of the horses, just
19:50
because people don't always respect the horses or
19:53
understand. So that's really the scariest
19:56
part. But the horses themselves, it
19:57
was just really cool to see them understand and just take care of
20:01
in the whole way. Yeah, and I don't know if we
20:03
mentioned it, but he did the whole thing.
20:05
Bridal is correct. He did, yeah.
20:07
He did the whole thing with just a neck rope on.
20:11
He did ride. Hal gave me his brother a couple
20:14
days with the halter on and then the neck rope, just because he
20:17
was quite green. He wasn't originally planning to
20:20
have Hal's life is good in horses, but you know, he makes
20:24
it happen. And so, yeah, he had a couple of
20:26
days where he had the halter on to just help if Hal needed
20:28
support. And it really, well, I think it
20:30
was a couple rides and he felt good about it and was able to
20:34
take his halter off. And yeah, they made it the whole
20:36
way with just the necro and the horses responded to it just like
20:39
if they had any other tack on. Yeah, that's incredible.
20:42
And you're like, here's this guy that doesn't plan his sister's
20:45
riding an 8 months pregnant. This is the family for me.
20:48
Yes, yeah, it's funny. Not if you had said that, you
20:52
know, back a few years ago before I'd met him, this would
20:56
be the situation I would be in. But it just it just worked out.
21:00
And I'm definitely opposite in many ways.
21:04
And that worked out well because we were able to and still are
21:07
able to complement each other. But I think we the same values
21:10
that that helped me deal with some of the craziness he likes
21:13
to. Yeah, yeah.
21:15
Makes for a good team. That's what you need.
21:17
So after the trip, tell us a little bit about what happens
21:20
and especially with the rescues that you guys took on, you said
21:24
you kind of went and found the most dangerous, probably meaning
21:28
most at risk also, yes, and how all that transpired.
21:32
Yeah, yeah, we did. You know, like I said after the
21:35
trip, one thing that really stuck out to us is there are so
21:38
many amazing people across the country that run different
21:41
rescues and sanctuaries and organizations that are dedicated
21:45
to rescuing horses. You know, whether it's from
21:49
homes that can only care from them, from slaughter pipelines,
21:52
from working with Mustangs that aren't holding pens.
21:55
And there's so many people doing that.
21:57
And one of the biggest struggles that they have overall was
22:00
finding education and training for these horses.
22:04
And you know, that's the thing we're most passionate about is
22:06
we love working with the horses and we love working with people.
22:10
And so when we decided to do this project, we really wanted
22:14
to prove a point that even the horses that you think like
22:17
there's nothing left for them. That's not true.
22:20
There is, you know, there is always something.
22:22
And we ended up having an application process.
22:25
And so the they had to be a 5O1C3 nonprofit just to kind of
22:30
help narrow it down a little bit and make sure that we were
22:33
supporting places that were really legitimate and really
22:37
trying to help as many horses as they could.
22:40
We got these applications and originally it was going to be 5
22:42
horses, but of course, how these things go, there were a couple
22:46
extras that we just couldn't say no to.
22:48
And so it ended up being 7 and it was a really cool variety.
22:52
We had one that was an Appalachian brumby, so that was
22:56
the one that was wild, and I think it was Virginia or West
22:59
Virginia mountains and was rounded up.
23:01
He actually was a herd stallion and he had a lot of similarities
23:05
to kind of the Mustangs in that he was completely feral.
23:10
He was actually the most feral horse either of us had ever met.
23:13
There was not a single person that could get within 20 feet of
23:15
him. Like he was terrified.
23:19
I've never seen that level of fear here with a horse.
23:21
And he would just he was going to kill himself, like he was
23:24
going to climb out of a pen. You know, it was just, it was
23:27
really sad. There was no.
23:28
Speaking of why you do need 6 foot panels?
23:30
Yes, he was the example for sure.
23:33
You know, no aggression whatsoever, but so much fear
23:37
that he wouldn't have anything to get away from you.
23:39
So that was one of them. The other one, Nostalgia, who we
23:43
still have today, she's an ex bucking stock horse that was
23:47
from the Medicine Horse project out in Nevada.
23:49
And she was actually so scared that she jumped out of her round
23:53
pen into the desert and escaped for a week.
23:56
Before this is when she was with you.
23:58
Or before, before you guys, this is her kind of what really drew
24:03
us in is that she jumped out to escape and it's like, wow,
24:06
that's a great fit. The crowds won't even hold her.
24:09
Let's get that one. Yes, yeah, that's.
24:11
I don't know how we'll keep her, but yeah.
24:14
So they had to recapture her just when she wanted water.
24:16
That was kind of how terrified she was.
24:19
And then we had as well, a Mustang from Kansas, and he had
24:24
actually kicked the farrier and broken their arm.
24:27
So, you know, some obviously comes from fear, but had some,
24:31
you know, willingness to be a little aggressive through that
24:33
fear. And so that was one that we we
24:35
took in. He ended up being just the
24:36
sweetest thing. He now works with kids.
24:39
So it was totally, you know, just feeling stuck in in that
24:42
situation that led him to act that way.
24:44
And then anyway, I could go through them all.
24:46
But those are kind of a little bit of a example of the type of
24:49
horses that we had come in. So it was a a wide variety from
24:53
all kinds of different States. And they all, you know, had some
24:57
pretty serious issues. More than one of them was at the
24:59
point where the rescue was like, you know, if we can't figure out
25:01
a way to safely care for them and get them, you know, just the
25:05
basic care that they need to keep them as a sanctuary horse,
25:08
then we're probably going to have to look at, you know,
25:10
euthanizing just because we can't care for them.
25:14
So it was definitely horses that were, like you said, the most at
25:18
risk for, you know, not being able to be helped.
25:21
And they all, they all came down in January and and we started
25:25
working with them. Wow.
25:26
And So what was that process like?
25:28
Where do you even start with a horse that doesn't want you
25:30
within 20 feet of it, you know? Yeah, Yeah.
25:33
That was honestly kind of a question we had to, you know, it
25:37
was definitely the most extremes.
25:39
And we, we don't have a facility of our own.
25:42
So this was in Texas at Patrick's mom's place, and we
25:47
had bought some different round pens and we had, it was just
25:51
craziness. You know, we had this space that
25:54
wasn't covered or anything. And we had all these different
25:56
pens built depending on if it's the horse, you know, needed six
26:00
foot panels, if it was, you know, halterable but had
26:03
aggression issues, whatever it is.
26:05
We had all these kind of pens set up and we would go through
26:08
working them and we broke it up where I had three horses that I
26:12
was working with, Patrick had three that he was working with.
26:15
And then we had an intern, Dustin, who was with us and he
26:18
was working with a horse as well.
26:20
And so we would kind of go through, go through the day, you
26:23
know, working the horses. And the biggest step Part 1 was
26:26
just, can we get them to just look at us, you know, Part 1.
26:30
And then they would look at us, which with a couple of them was
26:35
hard enough, right? They were, they were ready to be
26:37
out of there however they could be.
26:38
But once we got that, then it was OK.
26:40
Will you take one step towards us?
26:42
OK, will you take 2 steps towards us?
26:44
Will you let us take one step towards you?
26:46
And it was so small what we were looking for an asset of them.
26:52
And it really helped, you know, I think teach us so much in that
26:55
it was so different from a lot of the horses that we work with
26:58
because the tiniest, tiniest little things meant so much to
27:02
most of them. And so it was really starting
27:05
with just can we get you to connect and allow us in your
27:09
space? And we didn't, you know, we got
27:11
them all to the point where they could be touched.
27:14
They would do liberty, you know, circles, walk trotting around us
27:18
before we would even try and put the halter on because we
27:22
intentionally wanted them to allow the halter put the halters
27:25
on like in a chute or anything, and because we just wanted to
27:28
really work through it. And so that was the biggest step
27:32
for especially Armani, who was the Appalachian brumby and
27:35
nostalgia, who was the one from Nevada.
27:37
Getting them halter ball took money was two months, which for
27:42
perspective, Patrick did the Mustang makeover an adult that
27:46
year prior and he was riding his Mustang within three days,
27:50
right. So usually, you know, we're
27:52
pretty efficient with getting the horses, you know, relaxed
27:56
with us at their number one goal.
27:57
But these horses were so extreme that it took him two months for
28:01
the halter. It took nostalgia about a month.
28:03
And once they were, you know, accepting of that, that was
28:06
really step one. And then we were going through
28:09
kind of the cult starting process of can we introduce you
28:13
to obstacles, the saddle, you know, different things, all at
28:16
liberty. So everything that we did, they
28:18
were free. And they had to choose to
28:21
connect and do it. They had to choose to stand
28:23
there and let us, you know, put this apple on.
28:25
They had to choose to go over the obstacles and to choose to
28:28
do all those things. And once we got through all
28:30
those steps, then we would get to the point of like, OK, now
28:33
we're ready to try riding them. But it was all, you know, I
28:36
think the majority of the time over those four months was spent
28:40
really on the prep work for that.
28:42
And then some of them were a little faster than others
28:44
obviously and picked it up a little quicker.
28:47
And then it was moving on to trying to ride.
28:50
And all the first rides were done bridal life.
28:52
So we had one of us in the round pen doing liberty with the horse
28:56
and then the other one was riding just so the horse could
28:59
just get used to the feel of someone without kind of putting
29:01
the queue on. I didn't intend to do any of the
29:05
first rides on my horses because I am not that brave, but I ended
29:11
up doing it on all of them. It was really because after
29:15
spending all that time doing liberty with them, connecting
29:18
with them, building that relationship, I felt a different
29:21
type of trust, even though they were still very green and very,
29:25
you know, I need a lot more work and finding relaxation and
29:29
learning. But it was really different
29:32
because I knew at the point where we were choosing to get
29:34
on, they had accepted it and they had shown in every way that
29:37
we could ask them, yes, I'm OK with this.
29:40
Yes, I'm ready for it. And so that ended up, you know,
29:43
being a really cool because all the first rides actually went
29:47
really smoothly and the horses, you know, for how tense they
29:51
were as horses were actually relaxed, they weren't bucketing.
29:54
They went through the rides, you know, got got forward and did a
29:58
great job. And so that was really something
30:00
I didn't know if it would work going into it.
30:02
I was worried and not so sure that we would even be riding
30:06
them. And it was just really cool to
30:08
see them progress to that level. And then from there it was just
30:12
really working into stuff, just as a normal cold start.
30:15
Talk to us a little bit about you kind of talked about in the
30:18
show world how when horses had a problem, you up and up control,
30:23
which is pretty common. And then you went from like a
30:27
world where people want total control to where like we have no
30:31
control. The horses can choose to do
30:33
whatever they would like to do. What is that process like in
30:36
that difference in working with horses?
30:39
Because a lot of people, I think, work with their horses
30:43
out of fear that something's going to go wrong.
30:45
They anticipate things going wrong rather than maybe building
30:48
that partnership. Yeah, yeah, I think you're 100%
30:53
right. For me, it's very much been a
30:55
process and still is a process. You know, like I mentioned, I am
30:59
not this like innately brave. Get on any horse, hide it out.
31:04
It's not fun. Riding a horse that that isn't
31:07
relaxed, it isn't connected and I know there's some people that
31:11
it doesn't bother them, but I am not the type of person.
31:14
So it's kind of ironic that I enjoy riding in this way.
31:17
My horses have so much control, but through just slowly building
31:22
and understanding, I found that the more that we let go, the
31:28
more that it forces us to really listen to where our horse is at.
31:32
And, you know, when I bring my horse out to ride now, I'll do
31:36
liberty with them first. And it's very clear, OK, you've
31:39
got, you know, a lot of feelings today that we need to work
31:42
through. So we're going to work through
31:44
them. And if that means that we don't
31:45
get on, then that's fine because this was more important.
31:49
You know, 90% of the time I bring them out and they do a
31:51
little liberty and they're like, OK, I'm good to go.
31:53
But I think being forced to really check in with your horse
31:57
of where they're at, for me, it has helped gain more confidence
32:02
with my horse and with the partnership.
32:04
I actually ended up keeping Indigo, the little Gray mare
32:07
that was one of the ones I worked with through that
32:10
project. And she was a horse that they
32:13
thought was unrideable because every time they went to, you
32:17
know, saddle her up and get on her, she would buck and bolt
32:19
away. And so for her, having the
32:23
choice to communicate how she felt was so monumental that
32:28
she's now, you know, my main horse that I ride and work my
32:32
other horses at liberty on the team.
32:34
She's, you know, performed at Expos and fairs and all these
32:37
different places being ridden. And she's never had a bridal on,
32:40
you know, in her whole life. It's all been bridal less.
32:42
And she has helped me so much because she's not an easy horse,
32:47
but the liberty approach was so important to her that it
32:50
transformed the type of horse that she was.
32:52
And the more that we work with people as well, it's very
32:56
interesting because people will fall out and come in and say,
32:59
you know, I'm not going to ride bridalists or, OK, I'm going to
33:02
ride bridal maybe, but I'm only going to walk, right.
33:04
They come in with like, this is all I'm comfortable doing.
33:07
And they end up leaving a clinic, having ridden a horse in
33:10
the big arena, walk through Cantor, having the most relaxed
33:13
ride of their life. Because so often we have this
33:17
interfere or this inner tension that is there, even if we can't
33:21
put our finger on it or we don't want to acknowledge it, you
33:25
know, it's in our bodies and our horse.
33:26
Yeah. Yeah, I know.
33:29
I have it right. And I, Yeah, some days and they
33:32
feel it even stronger when it's connected to reins in a bit,
33:35
right. Our hands are usually where it
33:37
comes out, where that tension comes out.
33:39
And when there's something to brace against and to pull on, we
33:42
want to hold on to it really tight.
33:43
And that creates tension everywhere else in our body.
33:46
And then it's in our horses body.
33:48
And so it's been so interesting to see the more bridles that we
33:51
teach and the more that we work with other people that 9% of the
33:55
time and we take that bridle off or we say, OK, let's drop the
33:58
reins and let's just use the necro.
34:00
The horses within 30 seconds are stretching their head and neck
34:03
down. They're blowing out.
34:05
They're actually moving slower with more cadence, with more
34:08
relaxation in their gates than they were 30 seconds ago with
34:12
that bit. And so, you know, I always say
34:15
I'm not against bits, I'm not against bridles at all.
34:17
I don't think everyone in the world needs to wide ride
34:19
bridalists. I just think it's such an
34:22
incredible tool to show us the tension that we're sometimes
34:25
holding the holes that we have and where our horse is at.
34:29
And I think the more that we see those, the more that we feel
34:32
those, the more that we're forced to acknowledge and work
34:34
through them, the more that for me, that fear and and that
34:38
worriedness goes away because I feel like we're below the
34:41
surface now. We've connected on such a deeper
34:44
level. We've had these tough
34:46
conversations where we've worked through stuff that both of us
34:49
were uncomfortable with, and now we're both coming into this
34:52
relaxed. Yeah.
34:53
From your experience and seeing the difference with the way that
34:56
you guys approach the horses versus probably the way they've
34:59
been approached their entire rest of their life with humans,
35:02
do you think is every horse able to build a relationship with a
35:05
human that can be healthy for, you know, both parties?
35:09
Yeah, that's, that's another really good question.
35:11
You know, I think a short answer is yes, I think that every horse
35:16
can build a relationship with a person.
35:19
I think that sometimes we have to revisit what we want that
35:22
relationship to be. And I think sometimes people go
35:25
into working with a horse, their horse, and they want something
35:29
very specific. And sometimes that's not what
35:31
that horse wants and it's not what's best for that horse.
35:34
And you know, for example, Tess, my Mustang, she doesn't really
35:37
like being ridden. She's never really liked it.
35:40
I've done a lot of different types of riding with her, but I
35:43
could just tell she just doesn't love it.
35:46
And she's phenomenal at liberty. She's so smart.
35:49
She loves coming up and learning a trick.
35:51
She'll do anything when she knows there might be a treat at
35:54
the end. So that makes her very engaged
35:57
and very happy. And it took me a while to kind
36:00
of hit the point where I was like, I don't need to ride her,
36:03
right? Like, that's for me, not for
36:05
her. She's just as happy.
36:07
She's happier if I just focus on other things.
36:11
But I think that's hard because, you know, a lot of times what we
36:14
want to do is what we kind of put on, and our horses does what
36:17
they want to do, too. Yeah.
36:20
And sometimes, you know, that's through competition and
36:23
sometimes it's just through what we want to do at home.
36:26
But I think that's one of the toughest part for people is to
36:30
be willing to just step back and say, OK, what is my horse?
36:33
Really enjoy? Where are they at?
36:36
And you know, we have some horses that we've worked with
36:39
that I've been, you know, horses that we said we don't think
36:41
they're good candidates for riding.
36:43
And sometimes it's physical and sometimes it's mental.
36:46
And you know, could they be ridden?
36:49
Yes. But do they want to be?
36:51
Do they need to be? Maybe not.
36:53
And so I think that's a big piece, but I've yet to ever come
36:57
across 2 horse, you know, even the most scared ones we've ever
37:00
met that haven't wanted to have a connection with a person or
37:04
once they've realized that that connection can be a place of
37:08
safety of relaxation that they end up enjoying it.
37:12
And who was the one who you couldn't get within 20 feet of?
37:14
He now teaches kid lessons Bridleson at liberty.
37:17
It's amazing, it's amazing. It's it's just so cool to see.
37:21
And that's because he was able to come to it on his own terms.
37:24
So that's kind of my roundabout answer of yes, I do think that
37:29
all horses can have a relationship, just sometimes
37:32
it's a little different than what we might originally planned
37:34
for. Yeah, for sure.
37:36
If someone has a horse where they're getting that resistance,
37:39
things aren't going well. They're in that place of
37:41
struggle. What are some of the first
37:43
things you would suggest that they do with their horse?
37:46
Yeah. You know, I think it can a
37:48
little bit depend on the horse in person, but I think one of
37:52
the the biggest things for us, it's just stepping back and
37:55
going back to square 1. You know, for us, that's just
37:58
connecting at liberty and just seeing where it leads.
38:01
You know, I think a lot of the times when we go back and we act
38:04
like, OK, this is a horse we've never worked with before or we,
38:07
you know, or even, you know, if we have done all these things,
38:11
if we go back and we go to step one and we just say, hey, can we
38:14
connect on the ground? Can we go for a walk together?
38:17
Can we go for a run together? Can we do these things?
38:20
Often the holes will present themselves pretty quickly.
38:24
Almost every time that we've had someone come to us with a issue
38:28
that they're having under saddle, it's something that's
38:31
also happening on the ground too.
38:33
And I think the only real exception to that is when it's
38:35
been a trained habit that was only done under saddle.
38:39
Sometimes that does happen, but a lot of the times when it's an
38:42
overarching issue, people notice it more under saddle because
38:46
it's, you know, much more obvious when we're on their back
38:49
versus when we're just going through our daily care or
38:52
handling them on the ground. But it's almost always there in
38:56
some capacity. And I think that going back to
38:58
the ground, going back to just connecting and asking our horses
39:01
to work with us on the ground, if you pay attention, it will
39:05
really show it and give you a good path forward is how we
39:08
approach when we have or to work with.
39:11
It's kind of step one of that's we want to ride.
39:14
But first, let's just see what this horse shows us on the
39:17
ground. I mean, we'll see bolting, we'll
39:19
see rearing, we'll see bucking, right?
39:20
All of that will come through braciness, not wanting to go
39:23
forward. All these things that we feel
39:25
under saddle. We almost always see them step
39:28
one when we just say, hey, can you just move forward and
39:30
connect and they usually will show us right off the bat what
39:33
it is that's stopping them from doing that.
39:35
So your little crew is all mares, is that correct?
39:40
Tell me a little more about that, because mares have a
39:42
really bad rap in the horse world, and they're actually my
39:45
favorite. Also, I'm like my gelding, I'm
39:48
like, oh, you're a little obnoxious, but my mares, I just
39:51
love them. So yeah, tell us about your
39:53
little crew and how they ended up all being mares.
39:57
Yeah, yeah, that's, it's so true.
39:59
I got it. When I was kind of first
40:01
learning Liberty, one of the first tips was, well, if you're
40:04
going to have a team at Liberty, make sure that they're not
40:06
mayors and like. OK, so I'll get marriage.
40:11
So like that's. Funny, though, you hear that all
40:13
the time. Don't get a mayor.
40:14
Don't get a mayor. Yeah, we see it even when we
40:16
have horses. You know, people looking for a
40:18
sail horse. Anything is fine, just not a
40:19
mayor. Any color, any height, I mean
40:21
this, but not a bear. And it's so interesting because
40:25
they're I love them as well. And to me, I think mayors are so
40:30
smart and they're so willing to share how they're feeling.
40:34
And I think a lot of the times people don't like what they have
40:38
to say. But for me, I love that about
40:42
them because I think it helps. I'm always wanting my horses to
40:46
feel like they can communicate with me, to share how they're
40:49
feeling with their body, with their ears, with whatever it is
40:51
that they have to communicate. And I think the mayor's do that.
40:55
So wow, they do it so subtly. And the geldings are kind of
40:59
just, like you said, like goofy a lot of the times.
41:02
And they're just kind of good for anyone.
41:05
And they're just like, yeah, I'm just getting along.
41:08
It's great for a lot of things, but I think that mayors have
41:11
this ability to, you know, challenge us and when we get
41:15
through those challenges, they're just such incredible
41:19
partners because to them, they need to know that you are there
41:23
for them and that you are going to keep them safe and willing
41:27
to, I think, step up and communicate with them.
41:30
But once you give that, I mean, they're just the most incredible
41:33
partners. So yeah, I did.
41:35
I did not intend to have my first Liberty team be 3 mayors,
41:39
but it just kind of worked out that way.
41:41
And it started with Tess, my Mustang, who I had, you know,
41:45
gotten and did Liberty work with her.
41:48
And then through the rescue project that we did, Indigo, my
41:53
little Gray mare, was the second one that I ended up adopting and
41:57
keeping. And she was my most challenging
42:01
horse, you know, that I've worked with to date.
42:04
It's funny because when I said that I was going to keep her,
42:07
people like, oh, you like fell in love with her.
42:09
I was like, yes, but not in the way you're thinking.
42:13
Like, I just so admire her and the way that she pushes me to be
42:20
better. And almost every session is a
42:22
challenge with her, right? If I'm working on something new,
42:25
if we're trying something different, you know, she is
42:28
going to hold me accountable. And I really love that about her
42:33
and appreciate that. Some days do you wanna just plop
42:37
around and think about it, be challenged?
42:41
Yeah, for sure. And as our relationship grows,
42:45
we do have those days innately, she is that horse that is going
42:49
to push me to be lighter, to be more aware, to acknowledge
42:53
something that I might want to push past.
42:55
And that's what I really loved about her.
42:57
And I think a big part of that is that mayor personality that
43:01
they're going to be much more inclined to do that.
43:04
And I then, you know, had test and Indigo and I was working
43:07
them together and having a lot of fun with it.
43:10
We had this other horse Nostalgia, who was the ex
43:13
fucking stock horse who came from Nevada and she was one that
43:18
Patrick worked with to start and he ended up riding her.
43:22
But she was one of the ones where he was like, you know
43:25
what? I just, I don't think she wants
43:27
to be written and I don't think that she would be safe for the
43:30
average person to ride maybe ever.
43:33
So let's not focus on that. Let's focus on what she's really
43:37
good at because she is probably our best liberty horse.
43:40
I mean, she is so connected and she's so, you know, so subtle in
43:45
what she feels and does and it's really amazing.
43:48
And so we loved doing liberty with her.
43:51
And once we kind of decided that we ended up shifting and I was
43:54
like, well, I'll work with her and do Liberty with her, you
43:56
know, as we prepare for the, you know, trying to get her adopted.
44:01
Because the second part of our rescue project was taking the
44:07
horses that we still had and putting them into teams.
44:10
So we had, you know, we kind of talking about it and we ended up
44:13
landing on the girls team and the boys team.
44:15
So Patrick had the boys team and he had 4 geldings and two of
44:20
them were ones that we had already owned one rescue and 1
44:23
was my gelding actually, that he'd never worked with.
44:26
And then two of the rescues, so he was working with them and I
44:29
ended up working with those three girls, plus one other
44:33
rescue who we had had come in and I was working with them and
44:37
we were preparing. We had some events that year and
44:40
one of them was going to do some demos at Equifestive Kansas.
44:44
And so we kind of hit the point where we were about a month away
44:48
from going and we weren't coming to sure yet who we were going to
44:50
bring. And it just ended up that the
44:53
girls, the three girls were more advanced than the boys at that
44:56
point. They were a little more
44:57
confident. So she's like, you know what,
44:59
let's bring them cool girls. Like, yeah, that's really
45:03
satisfying. Yeah.
45:05
But so we decided to bring them, and we had some performances in
45:09
their evening show. And I'm not being brave to hop
45:13
on any horse. I am definitely not brave to
45:15
going and performing in front of crowds.
45:17
So it was a big step out of my comfort zone.
45:21
And they were super green at that time.
45:24
You know, they'd only been working together in a team for
45:26
maybe a couple months. So in hindsight, I'm like, wow,
45:29
we really just jumped into that. But it ended up working out
45:34
really well. And they did a phenomenal job
45:37
and nostalgia and Indigo actually performed a couple acts
45:40
during the rodeo halftime show. So it was just really cool to
45:44
kind of have that full circle moment and see this X bucking
45:48
stock horse then come out and perform in a totally different
45:51
way. Yeah, in front of, you know, the
45:54
the rodeo. And for us, it was a really,
45:57
really special moment. And when it ended, we had
46:00
someone come up and, and talk to us and she said, you know, I
46:03
heard that nostalgia was, you know, available for adoption.
46:06
And we're like, yeah, she is. And they were asking some
46:08
questions and we're like, yeah, well, she's a horse that, you
46:10
know, we are really just focusing on liberty on like
46:13
she's as you can see, she just did a performance in front of
46:17
1000 people and did phenomenal. But the persons immediate
46:20
response was us. So she's she's just the pasture
46:22
horse and Patrick and I were like.
46:25
Are you getting me? No.
46:27
Yeah. Do you see what she just did?
46:29
She just chose to do, you know, and for us, I think it was
46:33
really that moment where we were like, OK, no, like this is not
46:37
how she should be viewed. And that kind of was what led us
46:41
to decide we're going to keep her and we're going to have her
46:44
help promote, you know, not only rescues, also horses that don't
46:48
want to be ridden. And that was what led to then
46:52
kind of the now misfit my hairs as I call them coming together.
46:56
And and we kind of continue to try to promote that is it's
47:00
about the rescue, it's about connection, it's about non
47:02
ridden horses. And we have since combined,
47:06
combined the teams with my husband's geldings and we have 3
47:10
geldings as well and they all work together as a team of 6/2.
47:15
It's really cool. I will always have that special
47:19
place in my heart for mayors and I think that's what it really,
47:23
really comes down to, and I hope one day more people do too.
47:26
Yeah, I agree. They they are really incredible
47:29
to build a relationship with. I feel like.
47:32
Yeah, for me personally, the gelding, I'm like, I mean,
47:35
you're here, you'll probably always be here, but you know,
47:38
but my mares, I'm like, you know, I just love them and feel
47:41
like you have, you know, a personal relationship with them,
47:44
but it is different. They are a little more
47:46
opinionated and a lot of times. And but yeah, I love mares.
47:49
And I also think so good too, to keep letting people know, like,
47:53
you can have horses and there's a way to be with them and they
47:55
don't have to be ridden. Obviously it's great for some
47:59
horses and it's also incredible to be able to go out and ride
48:02
horses. But yeah, even up past your pet,
48:04
as we say, just to be able to go out and sit with a horse is
48:07
really an incredible experience. Talk more about the new
48:11
organization you started, the Equine Liberty organization.
48:14
From what I understood, it's a healthier way to do competition.
48:19
Is that fair description of that?
48:21
Yeah, I think that's a that's a beautiful description.
48:23
That is absolutely our goal with it.
48:26
This, you know, as I spoke earlier, it was really a
48:29
struggle for me growing up wanting to compete but not
48:32
having a way that felt good for me and good for my horse.
48:35
You know, we also were going around and we were teaching, you
48:39
know, liberty to people and liberty to horses.
48:41
Think people kind of started to feel like, OK, well, like, you
48:44
know, I did it, I have, you know, the basics, but I don't
48:46
know where to go from here. And so it's still kind of viewed
48:49
as, you know, a little warm up. But and so through that we're
48:53
like, hey, we really want to create a way so that there is
48:56
some place to go with it because I think it will help both people
48:59
that don't want to ride. I think it will help horses
49:01
become more adoptable. I think it will help a lot of
49:04
things if there are ways to create goals and competition
49:08
around liberty. And so that's kind of how that
49:11
was born. It was always Patrick's dream to
49:13
start a youth organization. So it actually started three
49:16
years ago as the Youth Equine Liberty organization.
49:19
And it was, you know, really, really fun.
49:21
And we were having, you know, youth come and do freestyles and
49:25
do these different in person events and virtual events with
49:27
their horses. And it was so cool to see.
49:28
But over and over again we had people asking like, well, I'm an
49:32
adult, but I really want to compete.
49:33
Like, can I do it? And we then, you know, the next
49:37
year out of the Youth at Heart chapter.
49:38
So that was for people that were older but still wanted to
49:41
compete. And then we just kept feeling
49:44
like we were missing this opportunity because there were
49:47
these people that were not youth that still wanted to be a part
49:51
of it. And so this year we actually
49:52
rebranded and launched it as the Equine Library organization that
49:56
we have the youth chapter. But it's now, you know, for all
49:59
ages and it's a lot clearer to people and we actually have our
50:02
first national show that we are hosting this year.
50:06
So that'll be. A.
50:07
Park in October, so we're really excited about that and that will
50:11
have liberty classes, bridalist classes.
50:15
We're also incorporating the discipline.
50:16
So we're going to have, you know, bridalist jumping,
50:18
bridalist dressage, bridalist ranch driving.
50:21
So yeah, it's like kind of trying to show people that, you
50:26
know, liberty is a foundation and you can use it in all
50:30
different disciplines, all different ways that you ride and
50:33
there's somewhere to go with it. So that's really how that came
50:36
about. And we do do virtual shows all
50:38
throughout the year. We have academies which are kind
50:41
of like these groups of people and barns that are local
50:44
communities for people to work with to help them grow their
50:47
liberty to help connect with people that are in their area
50:51
and build kind of that horse family.
50:54
And then we do local level in person shows as well throughout
50:57
the year and we're really excited about it and there are
51:00
hoping to continue to grow our efforts there and provide, you
51:04
know, more events and more education through it as it
51:07
grows. Yeah, that's exciting.
51:08
And I've heard lots of people who would like to go a more
51:11
natural way in the competitive world and you're not allowed to
51:14
in a lot of the different circuits.
51:16
So that's exciting to have those events of all kinds that you can
51:20
work towards. Really neat.
51:22
Yeah, that's that's what we're hoping for.
51:24
I mean, I was one of those people.
51:25
Of course I'm not going to compete in this.
51:27
But that frustration that I was felt even now I've really been
51:32
diving into and really having a lot of fun with it, but I don't
51:35
really want to do it with the bridal.
51:36
I've really enjoyed, you know, doing it.
51:38
Bridal is and there's just no way, you know, for me to go and
51:42
compete in that way. And I think if, you know,
51:44
there's more options out there for people, maybe it will
51:47
eventually one day help these other organizations to look at
51:51
other options. Even if it's just being allowed
51:53
to ride bit lists, right? Even that would be a fixed for,
51:56
for a lot of places, you know, for all of our classes, we still
52:00
have like training divisions where you can ride with your
52:02
bride. All you can do it with your
52:03
halter, but your focus is on doing less with that.
52:07
So that's what we're hoping for. And everything that that we do,
52:10
we really gear it towards, you know, all our judging and all of
52:14
our rules and stuff are geared towards putting the horse 1st
52:17
and trying to, you know, award the relationship and the
52:21
connection and the horsemanship before everything else.
52:24
Yeah, that's exciting. That'll be exciting to see where
52:27
that goes and what that builds. I have a feeling you guys will
52:29
turn it into something great so. Thank you.
52:32
What advice if someone wants to start at liberty, what are some
52:36
of the first things they should maybe do or could start doing?
52:39
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is don't be afraid you're going
52:41
to mess it up. It's going to be fine.
52:44
And I think sometimes we look at liberty as this big fancy thing
52:48
that people do in performances and that we see in these shows
52:52
and we think there's no way I could do that.
52:54
And I assure you 100% you can do it because liberty is just
52:58
connecting with your horse. And most people are already
53:01
doing that. Even so, I think the biggest
53:04
advice that I would give is don't be afraid to just go out
53:07
and try. And there are so many online
53:09
resources, even on YouTube, free resources are there's so many
53:13
different approaches to liberty, which is beautiful and it's
53:15
wonderful. And there's different ways that
53:18
you can incorporate what you're already doing and incorporate
53:21
liberty with it. So my biggest, my biggest advice
53:24
would be go out and try it and explore different approaches to
53:28
it. And when you find someone that's
53:30
a good fit, getting some in person help is super helpful.
53:34
But there's so many ways that you can just get started without
53:38
even any pressure. Just playing with your horse at
53:40
home in the pasture, it doesn't matter.
53:42
You don't need a round pen, you don't need a certain tool, you
53:45
don't need anything. You just need you and your horse
53:46
in a space and trying to connect.
53:49
I love that. And that's great advice because
53:51
so much in the horse world, a lot of times like don't do this,
53:55
don't ever do this, you know, don't ever make this mistake.
53:57
And a lot of times, I mean, you can make that mistake and it'll
54:00
still be fine. So I love that idea that yeah,
54:03
go out and try new things and connect with your horse, see
54:06
what works for the two of you. That's great.
54:09
Thanks so much for being here. Tell everybody if they want to
54:12
learn more about your organization's, participate in
54:14
your competitions, or even just connect with you guys where they
54:17
can find you, where the best places to do that are.
54:20
Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been really great to
54:23
chat about all these things and I'm really grateful for all the
54:26
work that you're doing. I know putting this together is
54:28
not easy and. It's a process.
54:32
Yeah, you, you clearly are really putting in a lot of work
54:34
to this, which I think a lot of people really appreciate.
54:38
I would say, you know, really we're going to, we're going to
54:41
answer in any way that you reach out.
54:43
Camila Unbridled is our most active social media for our
54:47
nonprofit. And so you can find us on there
54:49
and see the work that we're doing with the rescues and the
54:51
team. I personally am Misfit Mayors on
54:55
Facebook and Instagram and that's where you can see the
54:57
three sassy girls the most. And then Equine Liberty
55:02
organization we have on social media and our website
55:04
iseloliberty.com. And any of those places that you
55:09
find, if you shoot us a message, we are going to be happy to
55:12
direct you to answer questions, to connect in whichever way is
55:15
most helpful. Awesome.
55:16
Well, thank you again so much for being here, for sharing your
55:19
story and your experience. It is so great.
55:21
I think when people can see that you can have a relationship with
55:25
horses that's different than maybe what we've been told for a
55:28
long time or a lot of the main and stream ideas are that you
55:32
have to have this relationship of control.
55:34
That was definitely a huge one for me.
55:36
So I love you guys have gone so far the other way.
55:38
It's really cool to see and definitely like if anyone's
55:41
interested, check out your social media and stuff because
55:43
you guys have some great stuff on there.
55:45
But yeah, thank you for being a voice for the horses really.
55:48
And you know, taking in those horses that obviously had a
55:52
really hard time working within the traditional confines of a
55:55
lot of horsemanship and just showing that transformation that
56:00
can take place. I'm definitely going to be
56:02
checking out more and going back and looking at some of the stuff
56:05
that you guys have posted in the past because I think it's just
56:07
incredible what you guys are doing.
56:09
So thanks again. Thank you so much for your time.
56:12
And we have definitely gone extreme in the other direction.
56:15
And just know that you don't need to be that extreme to get
56:19
that with your horse. We like to definitely push the
56:22
boundaries, but it's all yes in the name of building that
56:26
relationship and there's so many beautiful ways to do that.
56:29
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
56:30
You don't have to even be out there riding your horse without
56:32
a bridle across the country. You don't have to go that far.
56:35
But yeah, just the idea that, you know, maybe you go bit less
56:38
or maybe you are just softer in your hands like so many, so many
56:41
cool things to just open up the possibilities of.
56:44
So, yeah, thank you for sharing that with everybody.
56:47
Thank you for joining us and learning about Horses that Heal
56:50
and the humans who help them. We hope you'll continue with us
56:53
on this journey. We'd love for you to subscribe
56:56
on your favorite platform and follow the touch of a Mustang on
56:59
any of the major social media outlets.
57:01
Please share with your friends anyone who loves horses or
57:04
anyone who might be struggling and could benefit from this
57:07
message. If you have felt the healing
57:09
power of horses or help them in their divinely appointed
57:13
mission, please reach out. We want to hear your story.
57:16
As we say goodbye, always remember that the horse is
57:19
always there to help you heal.