Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #139 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros

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#139 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: August twenty six, twenty twelve, started off as a relatively
0:05
Speaker 1: normal night. Terrell Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence,
0:09
Speaker 1: Rhode Island, with Stephan Boden and some other friends, and
0:12
Speaker 1: disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem Henley
0:17
Speaker 1: and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over until
0:21
Speaker 1: later in the parking lot. See Stephan Boden wanted his
0:25
Speaker 1: cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys
0:28
Speaker 1: because that's where they were, so he left ahead of
0:30
Speaker 1: the group, and as fate would have it, who was
0:33
Speaker 1: parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who
0:37
Speaker 1: were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his
0:41
Speaker 1: friends though, were just arriving on the scene and trying
0:43
Speaker 1: to avoid the drama, so Terrell made for the driver's
0:46
Speaker 1: side door, and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the
0:51
Speaker 1: driver's seat and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side.
0:55
Speaker 1: Seconds later, the cops were at the car and they
0:58
Speaker 1: saw Stephan trying to hide the gun. Stephen confessed on
1:02
Speaker 1: the spot to the shooting as both men were cuffed.
1:05
Speaker 1: An intoxicated and mortally wounded. Jamal Cruz had put his
1:10
Speaker 1: head down when shown Terrell, a far cry from an identification,
1:14
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial
1:17
Speaker 1: about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored
1:23
Speaker 1: Stefan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to
1:28
Speaker 1: ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day,
1:33
Speaker 1: serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is
1:39
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction
1:52
Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Today we're going to be discussing the
1:56
Speaker 1: really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, who was awfully convicted
2:00
Speaker 1: of a shooting in which one person was killed and
2:03
Speaker 1: another was badly injured. And with us today we have
2:08
Speaker 1: a student at Georgetown who's been doing incredible work investigating
2:12
Speaker 1: his case under the leadership of my friend, Professor Mark Howard.
2:15
Speaker 1: So Nurgena Hendy, Welcome.
2:17
Speaker 2: To the show, Thank you, Jason.
2:20
Speaker 1: The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is
2:24
Speaker 1: taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize
2:27
Speaker 1: from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff,
2:30
Speaker 1: and of course, this class was directly responsible for the
2:33
Speaker 1: exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode,
2:38
Speaker 1: please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So
2:41
Speaker 1: we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon.
2:44
Speaker 1: Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's
2:47
Speaker 1: very hard to get to the phones in prison, but
2:50
Speaker 1: we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from
2:54
Speaker 1: him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to
2:59
Speaker 1: two twelve.
3:01
Speaker 3: Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a
3:06
Speaker 3: group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence,
3:10
Speaker 3: Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort
3:13
Speaker 3: of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of
3:17
Speaker 3: members of another group, including the two that got shot.
3:20
Speaker 3: One was Rokim Henley, who got shot in the leg
3:22
Speaker 3: and who I spoke with a couple of times over
3:24
Speaker 3: the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended
3:28
Speaker 3: up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of
3:31
Speaker 3: that verbal altercation. It was Stephanboden who was and so
3:35
Speaker 3: a name was called someone's hat got tapped off their
3:37
Speaker 3: head and then no one really stays.
3:39
Speaker 2: There's not a physical altercation at all.
3:42
Speaker 3: Later on in the night, Stefan Boden asked Terrell, he goes, hey,
3:46
Speaker 3: let me get the tack to go get your car keys.
3:48
Speaker 3: So as he's heading over, there is another car that
3:53
Speaker 3: is parked bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it
3:57
Speaker 3: just happens to be the car of Jamal Cruz. Stephen
4:02
Speaker 3: thought that Jamal and Roekeim were coming to cause problems
4:06
Speaker 3: when reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan
4:10
Speaker 3: grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told
4:14
Speaker 3: them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell
4:17
Speaker 3: starts heading over to his car with his group of friends.
4:20
Speaker 3: Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Steffan
4:24
Speaker 3: Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed
4:27
Speaker 3: him as well, and he's actually walking to get to
4:29
Speaker 3: the other side of his car to hop in the
4:31
Speaker 3: driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to
4:34
Speaker 3: happen he doesn't want to be a part of it.
4:36
Speaker 3: He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's
4:40
Speaker 3: seat and almost immediately Stephan jumps into the passenger seat,
4:44
Speaker 3: and the cops are there to arrest them.
4:46
Speaker 1: And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped
4:49
Speaker 1: into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a
4:52
Speaker 1: moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to
4:56
Speaker 1: Terrell for sort of involving him in this.
5:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
5:01
Speaker 3: At this point, the arresting officers are on either side
5:05
Speaker 3: and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is
5:08
Speaker 3: caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and
5:12
Speaker 3: Stepan actually confesses on the scene.
5:15
Speaker 2: He said it's me. It's all me, It's all mine.
5:18
Speaker 3: Yet they are both arrested, taken to a paddy wagon,
5:22
Speaker 3: and then there's a show up that is done. Now
5:25
Speaker 3: they spoke with a couple of jury members who told
5:28
Speaker 3: me this is what caused us to believe Terrell is guilty.
5:33
Speaker 3: So in the show ups, they bring Stephan over to Jamal,
5:36
Speaker 3: who was in critical condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated,
5:41
Speaker 3: and they say, is this the man that shot you?
5:44
Speaker 3: And Jamal looks away. Apparently when they bring over Terrell,
5:48
Speaker 3: Detective Matrasia says, Jamal.
5:50
Speaker 1: Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter
5:54
Speaker 1: if he nodded or not. He was in no position
5:56
Speaker 1: to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't
5:59
Speaker 1: know if he did. It's not like he stuck his
6:01
Speaker 1: finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me,
6:04
Speaker 1: and he's out right, that's not what happened.
6:06
Speaker 3: They actually did not even do a show up identification
6:09
Speaker 3: with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and
6:13
Speaker 3: he was not in critical condition.
6:15
Speaker 1: They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either
6:17
Speaker 1: Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to
6:21
Speaker 1: figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime.
6:26
Speaker 3: And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers
6:29
Speaker 3: this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand,
6:32
Speaker 3: he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands.
6:36
Speaker 3: And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and
6:40
Speaker 3: it's now in Terrell because of what they call a
6:42
Speaker 3: dying declaration.
6:44
Speaker 2: Terrell Owis says, he goes, there were two.
6:46
Speaker 3: Lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz, and I
6:50
Speaker 3: feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice.
6:57
Speaker 4: This is a free call from Roe and inmate at
7:01
Speaker 4: Maximum Security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may
7:06
Speaker 4: start the conversation. Now.
7:08
Speaker 1: I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we
7:14
Speaker 1: have limited time, so let would get right to it.
7:16
Speaker 1: Can you take us back to the awful night of
7:19
Speaker 1: this crime and give us your perspective having lived through
7:23
Speaker 1: this night, mayor yourself.
7:24
Speaker 5: Well, back at that night, the two dudes approached. You know,
7:28
Speaker 5: we're talking to Stephan about something. The problem wasn't with me,
7:32
Speaker 5: so you went outside in the front of the club.
7:34
Speaker 5: Stephanim one of my keys to go get it a cigarettes.
7:37
Speaker 5: So when we go to the PA, the two dudes approaching.
7:39
Speaker 5: So I see them two dudes. Oh my god, man,
7:42
Speaker 5: here we go. So I turned around to go with
7:44
Speaker 5: jobside and the car, and I hear shots. So I
7:47
Speaker 5: just run into my car, just got run to my pa.
7:50
Speaker 5: Pop is like he had the gun on me, and
7:54
Speaker 5: put your hands on stading wheel. I put my hands
7:56
Speaker 5: on stading whil and he keeps on saying it but
7:58
Speaker 5: he's talking to stuff, and so he puts his hands
8:01
Speaker 5: on the standing wheel and he's like, yo, I'm sorry,
8:03
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I love you, I love you. The police
8:06
Speaker 5: officers hot and up and he's like, oh yo, the passions.
8:08
Speaker 5: He's got the gun. So as soon as he opens
8:10
Speaker 5: up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me,
8:14
Speaker 5: It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah,
8:16
Speaker 5: it's me. So when he took him out, he's already
8:19
Speaker 5: han't come from the other cop that had the gun
8:21
Speaker 5: on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist,
8:24
Speaker 5: my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it
8:26
Speaker 5: back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot.
8:30
Speaker 5: I didn't know no one was shot. I could see
8:32
Speaker 5: blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in
8:35
Speaker 5: the chest, and this dude's like doing a show up
8:38
Speaker 5: with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this
8:41
Speaker 5: shin the sin the shim. The guy just looked at
8:43
Speaker 5: me and puts his head down. He ain't saying nothing.
8:46
Speaker 5: He didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just
8:48
Speaker 5: put his head down. So then they had put me
8:51
Speaker 5: back into paddy wagon. They bring me back to the station.
8:54
Speaker 5: When they bring back to the station, you know they
8:56
Speaker 5: do the mob shot the fingerprints. Whether they got me
8:58
Speaker 5: to a room with two detectives. I asked for my
9:00
Speaker 5: lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the lead to
9:04
Speaker 5: He was the one that questioned me the first time
9:06
Speaker 5: in the first night. So he's like, oh, you know
9:08
Speaker 5: he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett.
9:10
Speaker 1: I'm like no.
9:10
Speaker 5: He's like, you want water. I'm like no, and he
9:13
Speaker 5: catched on, chya talk to me, and I'm like, I
9:15
Speaker 5: want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer.
9:17
Speaker 5: So he leaves the room and he comes back and
9:21
Speaker 5: he brings back to holding himself. So it's one of
9:24
Speaker 5: the times I'm like, yo, I'm banging on the door.
9:26
Speaker 5: Cop comes. He's like, what you're banging on. I'm like,
9:28
Speaker 5: I want my phone call. He's like phone call. I'm
9:31
Speaker 5: like yeah, He's like, are you getting plenty phone calls?
9:33
Speaker 5: Were aure going. I'm like, where am I going. He's like,
9:36
Speaker 5: you're gonna chill? What the hell? They bring me in
9:41
Speaker 5: the bus. They chanceport me there and I find out
9:44
Speaker 5: Monday the raiment that I'm getting charged with murder. I
9:47
Speaker 5: go up into the court room, had to split up.
9:50
Speaker 5: Stephan was on the west sides on the right side.
9:52
Speaker 5: So they reach Steff in his charges seventh bolroom possessing
9:55
Speaker 5: a firearm and that was that and he goes with
9:58
Speaker 5: Terrell Barrows first degree heard them, Paul showing everything I love.
10:05
Speaker 5: I did not do it. He admitted it on the
10:09
Speaker 5: scene for the p that's the power. I don't understand.
10:12
Speaker 1: I don't understand it either, because it should have been
10:15
Speaker 1: over right then and there, throw the phone, Okay.
10:22
Speaker 4: The caller has hung up.
10:36
Speaker 1: I have never and may never again hear of a
10:40
Speaker 1: case in which the actual shooter skates on the charges
10:46
Speaker 1: after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean, at that point,
10:51
Speaker 1: this should be a very short podcast. That should be
10:53
Speaker 1: the end of it. I mean, this would be funny,
10:55
Speaker 1: except it's so freaking serious, right, And this is this
10:59
Speaker 1: is the system that we all rely on day in
11:01
Speaker 1: and day out. I'd like to believe that we have
11:03
Speaker 1: people who are doing the job that they're paid to do.
11:07
Speaker 1: But in this case, it's absolutely true. It failed society,
11:10
Speaker 1: it failed the victim, It failed to rell, and that's
11:15
Speaker 1: what we're here to talk about. And then it gets
11:16
Speaker 1: weirder because then you start with the eyewitness. The only
11:20
Speaker 1: eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient, and he
11:24
Speaker 1: initially claims he didn't see the shooting, and then changed
11:27
Speaker 1: his testimony six days before the trial to say he
11:30
Speaker 1: saw Torell do it. We have a document signed by
11:33
Speaker 1: the assist Attorney General promising not to charge him for
11:35
Speaker 1: perjury should he alter his testimony. That's maybe just a
11:38
Speaker 1: little bit of a red flag there. Now get this, Okay,
11:42
Speaker 1: this Gregory's or obedient guy had, well, let's just call
11:45
Speaker 1: it an extensive criminal history. But that might not even
11:48
Speaker 1: be doing a justice. So his rap sheet went back
11:51
Speaker 1: thirty years. It included convictions not arrest, convictions for living
11:57
Speaker 1: off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larson, d ui
12:01
Speaker 1: causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's just
12:07
Speaker 1: the beginning. So do we think that after doing all
12:10
Speaker 1: these other things he's done, he might be willing to
12:12
Speaker 1: lie in exchange for a deal. I would say that's
12:15
Speaker 1: a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to Detective
12:18
Speaker 1: Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Jenna.
12:21
Speaker 3: He was actually the one who claims that he saw
12:24
Speaker 3: Jamal cruz Nod. When they brought over Terrell, I asked herra,
12:29
Speaker 3: I said, yo, were you watching Jamal? He said yeah,
12:31
Speaker 3: I was watching him. I said, did he not? He
12:32
Speaker 3: said no, he didn't do anything. So whether he did
12:34
Speaker 3: or did not is another story. But again, Jamal Cruz
12:37
Speaker 3: was under the influence of alcohol. He had a BAC
12:40
Speaker 3: of point one six', two which seems like a lot
12:43
Speaker 3: until we look At, rokin who had to.
12:44
Speaker 2: Actually HIRE bac as.
12:46
Speaker 3: Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t
12:50
Speaker 3: shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was,
12:54
Speaker 3: in he was not the only one with two long black.
12:57
Speaker 2: Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you
13:00
Speaker 2: look at the pictures.
13:01
Speaker 3: Of his friend, group he's not the only one with
13:03
Speaker 3: two long black. Braids and so out of a group
13:06
Speaker 3: of people wearing white, shirts dark, pants two long black,
13:10
Speaker 3: braids you're dying on the. Floor And Detective matrasia, says,
13:13
Speaker 3: yeah he nodded when we brought Over. TERRELL i, mean
13:16
Speaker 3: how unreal could that? Be and so now we're moving
13:19
Speaker 3: INTO gsr.
13:21
Speaker 1: TESTING gsr stands for gunshot, residue.
13:24
Speaker 3: Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that
13:27
Speaker 3: they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When
13:31
Speaker 3: Stephan andterrell were initially, Arrested stefan was pulled out of
13:36
Speaker 3: the car and he was slammed against the side of the.
13:40
Speaker 3: Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled out of
13:42
Speaker 3: the car and slammed to the, ground so he actually had.
13:45
Speaker 2: Some dirt on his white shirt in a specific.
13:47
Speaker 3: Area what they initially test was the chest area of
13:53
Speaker 3: Both terrell and Of stephan because the theory is if
13:57
Speaker 3: someone is a shooter and they hold the gun right,
14:00
Speaker 3: ahead that the gunshot residue will recoil and hit them
14:03
Speaker 3: in the chest. Area so they talk about stuff and they, go,
14:06
Speaker 3: well we found lead on stuffan and they, say, well
14:09
Speaker 3: you also found lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to
14:12
Speaker 3: his attorney ask if they happened to find.
14:15
Speaker 2: The lead where my shirt was.
14:17
Speaker 3: Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's
14:19
Speaker 3: the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead
14:23
Speaker 3: so this is all the information they had in terms
14:25
Speaker 3: OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence to,
14:30
Speaker 3: come which is part of what we are motioning for
14:33
Speaker 3: with the new hearing coming.
14:34
Speaker 1: Up, well we're on, initials, Right we'll go FROM gsr TO,
14:38
Speaker 1: dna and THE dna report Excluded terrell from having held the.
14:42
Speaker 1: Gun so let's touch for a second on THE dna
14:46
Speaker 1: expert for the, state who we know was, WELL i,
14:50
Speaker 1: mean most, unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro. Prosecution in,
14:53
Speaker 1: fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over eighty percent
14:56
Speaker 1: of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the process there's
15:01
Speaker 1: a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that you're seeing
15:05
Speaker 1: may not be objective at. All and this is one
15:08
Speaker 1: of those cases WHERE i think that there's a strong
15:11
Speaker 1: argument to that. Effect, So, ujena can you talk about?
15:13
Speaker 3: That, Yeah Kara lupino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in
15:19
Speaker 3: the way that she had presented. It the attorney would
15:21
Speaker 3: ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and say,
15:24
Speaker 3: yes And torell was. Included and then you all of
15:26
Speaker 3: a sudden get to the very very very end and
15:29
Speaker 3: they really quickly sneak in a couple of lines Of
15:32
Speaker 3: terrell was excluded And Stefan BODEN'S dna could not be.
15:36
Speaker 3: Excluded so When i'm talking to the, juror she, GOES
15:40
Speaker 3: i don't even really remember him being. Excluded it was so.
15:44
Speaker 3: Confusing there were a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell
15:47
Speaker 3: seemed to be included in almost every mixture that they're talking.
15:50
Speaker 3: About it's absolutely, insane and IF i was in the,
15:54
Speaker 3: JURY i would have thought the same.
15:55
Speaker 1: Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what
15:59
Speaker 1: was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded
16:03
Speaker 1: torell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem,
16:08
Speaker 1: henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his,
16:11
Speaker 1: testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of,
16:15
Speaker 1: trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have
16:19
Speaker 1: been the.
16:20
Speaker 3: Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the
16:23
Speaker 3: same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the
16:27
Speaker 3: only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was Stefan.
16:30
Speaker 2: Bodden SO i, said here's the.
16:33
Speaker 3: Discrepancy did you see who shot?
16:36
Speaker 2: You he said.
16:37
Speaker 3: NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the
16:43
Speaker 3: shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away
16:48
Speaker 3: and you are telling me that the only person standing
16:52
Speaker 3: near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz Was Stefan.
16:55
Speaker 3: Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see him shoot the.
16:59
Speaker 3: Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony you don't see
17:02
Speaker 3: stuff and do, it but you also claim you did
17:06
Speaker 3: not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell. Is
17:09
Speaker 3: the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial so
17:13
Speaker 3: if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot was
17:16
Speaker 3: made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it is
17:19
Speaker 3: impossible That terrell was the.
17:20
Speaker 1: Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and
17:26
Speaker 1: of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to,
17:29
Speaker 1: overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty.
17:35
Speaker 4: Years this is a free call from true an inmate
17:42
Speaker 4: at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you
17:47
Speaker 4: may start the conversation, Now.
17:51
Speaker 1: Okay the investigators in your, Case, terrell it Was Detective
17:55
Speaker 1: matrasha And Detective, angelo, right.
17:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, angelo though he was the leader of the, Case
18:03
Speaker 5: matasha was the one that lied About, jamal saying it
18:06
Speaker 5: was me at the show. Up so WHAT i was
18:08
Speaker 5: told was this from a lot of, lawyers and they
18:10
Speaker 5: all gave me the same. Answer you're in this. Situation
18:15
Speaker 5: they tend this on. You it's because you asked for your.
18:18
Speaker 5: LAWYER i asked for my. Way that's not, Right they, said,
18:21
Speaker 5: yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to,
18:24
Speaker 5: hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, here
18:28
Speaker 5: so you could put any words in that man's mouth
18:30
Speaker 5: you want because you can't put him on a stand
18:33
Speaker 5: and cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they
18:36
Speaker 5: go on the stand and they, think, no they, know
18:40
Speaker 5: they know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes
18:43
Speaker 5: the jury don't think that the cops are going to
18:45
Speaker 5: go on to stand and, lie and that's what they.
18:49
Speaker 5: Did And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this
18:53
Speaker 5: even going on With George. Floyd this was in like twenty,
18:56
Speaker 5: twelve twenty, thirteen so around that time that climate was,
19:01
Speaker 5: like oh, no the police ain't gonna lie on this, Kid.
19:04
Speaker 1: Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could
19:10
Speaker 1: go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes
19:12
Speaker 1: the moment where the jury goes out and they come back.
19:15
Speaker 1: In did you think that they were going to find you?
19:17
Speaker 1: Innocent tell us about that.
19:19
Speaker 5: Moment they bring me down and the elevator to the court.
19:22
Speaker 5: Room they can just feel like the tension in the
19:25
Speaker 5: courtroom and the jury will come. In their faces are.
19:29
Speaker 5: Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my,
19:34
Speaker 5: family everybody was just, Like, noah he's. Innocent like they
19:37
Speaker 5: just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and. Shocked
19:41
Speaker 5: i'm in, shocked like everybody's standing. Up i'm the only
19:44
Speaker 5: one sitting down and what got me out of the
19:46
Speaker 5: chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo leva. Laughing SO i, said,
19:53
Speaker 5: yo what do you think this is? Funny they just
19:57
Speaker 5: looked at me AND i looked At jamaal's family AND
20:00
Speaker 5: i turned around some AND i, SAID i didn't do
20:02
Speaker 5: this to your. SON i promise. YOU i promise. YOU
20:05
Speaker 5: i did not do this to your. SON i did
20:07
Speaker 5: not do. This they didn't get justice for your. Son
20:10
Speaker 5: they're lying to you and they're just looking at me
20:12
Speaker 5: like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy so they're in that.
20:16
Speaker 5: Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like hugged the brother like
20:19
Speaker 5: like they want a Super, bowl smacking his back like, yeah,
20:22
Speaker 5: yeah we got. Him And i'm just looking at him
20:24
Speaker 5: like ye're lying into this family like this is a big,
20:27
Speaker 5: lie like you just known an innocent kid guilty for
20:30
Speaker 5: a time. Again do they just want a big? CONVICTION
20:34
Speaker 5: i know they don't know WHY i didn't do, it
20:36
Speaker 5: because the, prosecutors you, know when you see bogus, charges
20:40
Speaker 5: but you still go forward with it because you want a.
20:42
Speaker 5: Conviction they don't care.
20:44
Speaker 1: Yet What i'm. Say, yeah they're thinking about their, future their,
20:49
Speaker 1: aspirations the way they can be, successful and they know
20:52
Speaker 1: that's by having a good conviction rate by in. Large
20:55
Speaker 1: but it's like it's some sort of six scoreboard and they're.
20:59
Speaker 1: Decent oscar's out. There there are some really good ones,
21:01
Speaker 1: Too but the ones that are willing to ignore evidence
21:05
Speaker 1: of innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just
21:09
Speaker 1: to get another notch on their, belt just to move
21:11
Speaker 1: up the, ladder Are they're a disgrace and they're actually
21:15
Speaker 1: a menace to public.
21:16
Speaker 5: Safety they used on that they went off family to
21:22
Speaker 5: make this. Family, yeah.
21:26
Speaker 1: Like and as if this case couldn't get worse or.
21:42
Speaker 1: Weirder Stephan bowden put out a. SONG i guess he
21:47
Speaker 1: was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating
21:50
Speaker 1: on the murder rap and allowing his friend to rotten. Prison.
21:54
Speaker 2: Right he wrote this song Called letter To.
21:57
Speaker 3: Terrel it's really more of a guilt, trip saying things
22:01
Speaker 3: like we should have never went out to the club that.
22:03
Speaker 3: Night it's painful that you're in that. Cell it's painful
22:06
Speaker 3: on my, mother And i'm sorry that you.
22:08
Speaker 1: Win that gym's painful on my, Mother BUT i think
22:11
Speaker 1: about you every day IN. Nfe how is he? Out
22:15
Speaker 1: interrell's in.
22:16
Speaker 3: Prison Stefan boden is now. Dead he was shot in
22:20
Speaker 3: a car shooting in twenty.
22:22
Speaker 1: Seventeen it's too. MUCH i, mean the good news is
22:29
Speaker 1: He's the only good news HERE i guess is that
22:31
Speaker 1: he's got a fantastic. Team now we've got some. Momentum
22:35
Speaker 1: can you talk about that new, evidence talk about his
22:37
Speaker 1: new lawyer and what lays.
22:39
Speaker 3: Ahead the original theory was if you hold a gun
22:42
Speaker 3: straight out in front of, you THE gsr or gun
22:45
Speaker 3: shot residue will fly back and hit the chest, area
22:49
Speaker 3: AS i mentioned. Before, However Bob, Cando terrell's newer, attorney
22:56
Speaker 3: went ahead and looked at the trajectory of the bullets
23:00
Speaker 3: and he had a couple of questions about where the
23:02
Speaker 3: shot was actually made. From how is it possible That
23:05
Speaker 3: rakim didn't see the. Shooter how is it possible that
23:08
Speaker 3: If jamal gave a dying, declaration then he gave it
23:10
Speaker 3: to the wrong. Person and how is it possible that
23:13
Speaker 3: If stefan's the real, shooter we find only lead on.
23:17
Speaker 2: Him where are the other particles OF.
23:18
Speaker 3: Gsr So Bob kando goes ahead and puts in a
23:22
Speaker 3: request for other areas Of boden's clothing to be, analyzed
23:28
Speaker 3: including his crotch and belt. Area lo and, behold they
23:33
Speaker 3: come back with more particles OF, gsr which ends up
23:36
Speaker 3: being huge. News putting together trajectory of the. Bullets putting TOGETHER,
23:41
Speaker 3: Gsr Stefan boden actually took the shots.
23:45
Speaker 2: From right next to his. Belt he actually did not
23:47
Speaker 2: hold the gun straight.
23:48
Speaker 3: Ahead so if that were to, happen someone who's extremely
23:51
Speaker 3: intoxicated wouldn't be able to see the. Gun and WHEN
23:53
Speaker 3: i actually ended up speaking To rakeem, later IF i, said,
23:55
Speaker 3: well you, know the new evidence really says that the
23:58
Speaker 3: gun was next to him was, sponsor he, goes, oh
24:01
Speaker 3: that might explain. It so that might explain Why rokein
24:07
Speaker 3: didn't see That stefan shot. Him so that's very. Exciting
24:10
Speaker 3: and with this new, evidence with the new affidavit that
24:13
Speaker 3: we have, written new eyewitnesses who are coming, forward family
24:17
Speaker 3: members Of stephan Bod and who are coming forward and
24:21
Speaker 3: SAYING i Know stefan did. It he told me multiple.
24:23
Speaker 3: Times we are taking all of this And bob is
24:27
Speaker 3: pushing for a hearing In september with emotion for a new,
24:30
Speaker 3: trial and we're hoping that we can Get terrell home very.
24:33
Speaker 1: Soon and that leads to what happens now and what
24:38
Speaker 1: can people?
24:38
Speaker 3: DO a mini documentary came out About Terrell. Barrows please
24:43
Speaker 3: check it. Out the title of it is on. YouTube
24:45
Speaker 3: it's Called making An exonerary twenty twenty dash The story
24:49
Speaker 3: Of Terrell. Barrows and then that you'll really see everything
24:52
Speaker 3: that we outlined throughout this entire, podcast as well as
24:56
Speaker 3: getting to hear from people who heard From steffan himself
25:00
Speaker 3: that he did. It and then there's also a change
25:02
Speaker 3: dot org petition that sends a letter to the, governor
25:06
Speaker 3: who has been pretty vocal about THE blm movement and
25:09
Speaker 3: everything that's happening right, now so we're hoping that she'll
25:12
Speaker 3: also hop onto this change dot org slash Free. Terrellbarrow
25:16
Speaker 3: so it's change dot org Slash Free Terrell.
25:20
Speaker 1: Barrows our wonderful producers have put the link in the
25:24
Speaker 1: podcast description so you can just scroll down on whatever
25:29
Speaker 1: platform you're listening. To please share it on social. Media
25:33
Speaker 1: tell people listen to the, episode watch the video content
25:37
Speaker 1: that's out. There we can win. This so now this
25:41
Speaker 1: is the part WHERE i get to thank our guests
25:43
Speaker 1: in this, case and, There Jenna, handy thank you for being,
25:47
Speaker 1: here and of Course Terrell, Barrows we're here for. You
25:51
Speaker 1: i'm going to fight for, you and thank you as
25:53
Speaker 1: well for sharing your thoughts with. Us Now i'm going
25:57
Speaker 1: to turn off my, microphone pick back in my chair
26:02
Speaker 1: and Let Noorgena handy share her final thoughts in the
26:06
Speaker 1: segment we call closing.
26:08
Speaker 2: Arguments terrelle is an amazing.
26:11
Speaker 3: MAN i could go on and on about who he
26:13
Speaker 3: is as a, person the character that he, has and
26:16
Speaker 3: the change that he will make when he is brought.
26:19
Speaker 3: Home and it has been such an honor to be
26:24
Speaker 3: in his, life to be in his mother's, life to
26:25
Speaker 3: be in his attorney's. Life And i'm hoping that we
26:29
Speaker 3: can Prove terrell's innocence and bring him home to his,
26:32
Speaker 3: mom to his, family and to society where he belongs
26:36
Speaker 3: and WHERE i am one thousand percent sure that he
26:39
Speaker 3: is going to make a. Difference this is not the,
26:43
Speaker 3: end and it's definitely not the. Beginning this story With
26:47
Speaker 3: terrell has happened many times in the past and unfortunately
26:51
Speaker 3: will continue to happen unless people like, me like You,
26:54
Speaker 3: jason come together and Bring terrell.
26:56
Speaker 1: Home and now over to You torel, again thank you
27:02
Speaker 1: for being here and thank you for your courage and your.
27:04
Speaker 1: Spirit hang in. There we're all out here rooting for
27:09
Speaker 1: you and more importantly fighting for. You so now over
27:11
Speaker 1: to you for closing.
27:13
Speaker 5: ARGUMENTS i just want to thank everybody for, listening AND
27:17
Speaker 5: i want to start off while, Thinking Jason form for
27:20
Speaker 5: give me this platform to explain my. Situation we need
27:24
Speaker 5: people Like Jason Mock, Poward Madi, tank with The georgetown,
27:29
Speaker 5: students the Genre Leo. Caroline they are fighting so hard for.
27:36
Speaker 5: Me my, Attorney Robert, kando just want to thank him
27:40
Speaker 5: for being there for me and really really fighting for
27:43
Speaker 5: me because he Knows i'm really, innocent you. Know AND
27:46
Speaker 5: i also got to thank the two main women in my,
27:48
Speaker 5: wife my mother And Ann. Lisa if it wasn't For
27:52
Speaker 5: An lisa reaching out to my out with, that none
27:55
Speaker 5: of this right, now this, interview the, documentary the, petition
27:59
Speaker 5: none of this would be going on right now because
28:00
Speaker 5: it wasn't for. HER i want to thank my mother
28:03
Speaker 5: for always being there for. Me her strength is WHERE
28:07
Speaker 5: i get it. From, well right, Here i'm innocent and
28:10
Speaker 5: she told me to, fight, fight fight UNTIL i get my.
28:13
Speaker 5: Freedom but the post convincing am't coming. Up And i'm
28:18
Speaker 5: fighting for a new child And i'm fighting for. FREEDOM
28:21
Speaker 5: i need your. HELP i just need as much people
28:24
Speaker 5: to sign this.
28:24
Speaker 4: Petition you have one minute. LEFT i spread the.
28:29
Speaker 5: Word we need. Allies there's a lot of us in
28:33
Speaker 5: here that are, voiceless AND i am blessed to have the.
28:39
Speaker 5: FAMILY i have to have this voice to speak because
28:44
Speaker 5: it's given me a platform to speak for the. Voiceless
28:47
Speaker 5: in this, PRESENT i feel like people are playing in
28:52
Speaker 5: my life for a. REASON i know That i'm going
28:54
Speaker 5: to get out of jail AND i gotta fight on
28:56
Speaker 5: the front line for people get innocent in present because
29:01
Speaker 5: it has to. Stop these pos needs to be held.
29:05
Speaker 5: Appounable they're not just killing us in the. Streets they're
29:10
Speaker 5: killing us in these courts and there's no consequences when
29:14
Speaker 5: they do. It they need to be. Accomplished too many
29:18
Speaker 5: people in the prisons system what their life took me,
29:20
Speaker 5: fact it has to.
29:23
Speaker 1: Stop don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever
29:36
Speaker 1: you get your. Podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a
29:40
Speaker 1: proud donor to The Innocence, project AND i really hope
29:43
Speaker 1: you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and
29:46
Speaker 1: helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To Innocence project
29:50
Speaker 1: dot org to learn how to donate and get. Involved
29:53
Speaker 1: i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin.
29:56
Speaker 1: Wartis the music in the show is by three Time
29:58
Speaker 1: Oscar nominade Composed Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us
30:02
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30:06
Speaker 1: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flam is a production Of
30:10
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Speaker 1: one