Latest / Dispatched & Dysfunctional / The Hidden Toll: How Suppressing Emotions Destroys First Responders from Inside Out — T. Stevenson

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The Hidden Toll: How Suppressing Emotions Destroys First Responders from Inside Out — T. Stevenson · Dispatched & Dysfunctional

• Christopher Stockton: these things. It's like my whole logic on these episodes are it's gonna be unfiltered, it's gonna be true, it's gonna be unedited, and that's how I prefer to do these episodes is to me that makes it more unique and more emotional and able to be connected to in the end. Trevor Stevenson: And just so real, hey, like a lot of podcasts and I was on one yesterday actually called life after 40 with an awesome dude that he just sort of focused on that period. And he was asking me questions about that period in my life and like what the awakening and what the hardest parts were and all these things. I'm like, it was so awesome. Cause I've been on so many podcasts where it's like, tell me about your upbringing. What was the hard thing? And then what brought, you know, all of this, which is great. And I appreciate that. And I know there's value in it, but Christopher Stockton: Right. Right. Trevor Stevenson: I like having these kinds of conversations and just seeing what's real and where it goes naturally. Christopher Stockton: That's very true. Alright, so I'm going go ahead and get started here. Welcome back to Dispatches are Functional. This one feels important to me because I think a lot of listeners are going to hear parts of themselves in this conversation and maybe realize they're actually not crazy and they're definitely not alone. Today's guest is Trevor Stevenson. But before titles, bios, coaching, leadership, any of that internet stuff that you got, who are you and what made this conversation worth saying yes to today? Trevor Stevenson: Well, you accepting it was big, because I reached out to you, because I feel it's such an important one. Maybe I'll start with the relationship to this is, you know, my brother's a lifelong firefighter. He's a captain now, you know, right out of high school. Actually, it was in high school, he did his co-op placement in our small town fire department. ⁓ Christopher Stockton: That's cool. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, and I know there's stuff he carries that I'm proud to be able to have conversations with him about. And a lot of the guys I went through, guys, girls, went through school with as well, ended up being police officers. My wife and I are leadership development firm. And so we have done this deeper work. And our work isn't your standard stuff. It really goes to the core of what's going on for you, what's creating your own Christopher Stockton: . Trevor Stevenson: personal trauma or having you relive the traumas that you've experienced. And we've worked with fire departments, healthcare, hundreds of nurses. And there's just a lot of people around me that I care deeply for that I know the compound effect of the work you all do is much more than the norm. And so... Christopher Stockton: . . Trevor Stevenson: I guess to answer your first question of who I am, I'm a lifelong learner that is, I'm my own Petri dish. I'm number one study here about how my conditioned patterns keep me from being the person that I want to be in the world and what's the ripple effect of that. And then what it is that I can learn and shift and evolve into and then share really. It's why I love being on shows like yours, Chris, that The word is getting out that, as you said, you're not crazy and you're definitely not alone. Christopher Stockton: This is the truth and I'd say and I did feel crazy for the longest time and I did feel alone until I actually started talking to guests like yourself and actually getting the help I needed in the end was more important. But the ability to talk to people as we were talking about before the show is, you the amount of people I've had on the show that I've talked to and the experiences they were able to share with me has helped me and helped a lot of my own guests. delve into their own realities and help them heal in the end. And I think the job that we do, it does reward us for being emotionally suppressed, pretty much in a way. ⁓ You know, the dependable people, the ones who never complain, we never call out, we never really just slow down. We're always go, go, go, go, go. You everyone always praises us and says, that's awesome, you're doing it. You know, you're doing it, you're doing it. Meanwhile, a lot of us are dying inside. We don't know how to reach out to get the help. We don't know what the hell we're going through in the end. Reading your form you put, it looked like you did grow up in a culture where they taught you confidence and capability, but not necessarily the self-awareness or emotional connection. So when you did that at younger age, I guess, when you were growing up, can you walk me through that? How did you learn to progress in the end? Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, it was after leaving that environment that as you're describing, it doesn't reward emotional sensitivity, not the family environment and not the home small town upbringing. And so number one was to leave the environment. ⁓ wasn't at an awareness stage as an adult, as a practitioner where I was capable or interested in shaping the environment. I was a product of it. And so my courageous act was to leave and follow my heart and start doing the things that I love and meeting new people, new cultures, learning new ideas. Started reading all the books, learning from, you know, the sort of ⁓ infant and infinite level of, you know, way of the peaceful warrior and Jonathan Livingston Seagal and these great fables, you know, that talk about the power of the mind and all that we can be. And I traveled the world for a decade and started guiding. And yeah, I started interacting with a lot of people who were ⁓ either traveling like I was and trying to understand themselves and who they want to be in the world and just being able to make it up, or people that were kind of escaping for a couple of weeks and having conversations about them, about what drives them to keep doing that then. Christopher Stockton: That's cool. . . Trevor Stevenson: if it's not something that inspires and empowers them. And so I started coaching, campfire coaching at a young age. And then it naturally became this business that now is 21 years old. And ⁓ I think just my own journey has facilitated that curiosity and that learning journey. Christopher Stockton: That's actually pretty cool, especially like you said, 21 years. That's ⁓ quite a time for a coaching business to be alive and thriving. A couple of the coaches I've talked to before, they… last five, 10 years and they got to start another practice or, you know, God forbid they just say screw it. To me, things like that in the end is when we're truly emotionally attached to our jobs, like we should be and are in the first responder field and your field as well, is it makes a difference. It does make it grow better. It does make you grow into a better provider, a better practitioner. that also helps eat away at us in the end because we do put more of ourselves on the line and kind of become more of a easy attacked ⁓ prey in the end in my opinion. ⁓ Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, I was thinking about that, you know, as a mentally to arrive at this conversation. And even as you're describing here, Chris, like you can't freak out or you can't say, no, this is too much, too much blood, you know, too much trauma, too much death, whatever is going on, too much violence. ⁓ You all can't can't say that. But but but it is absorbed in the body in some way and then must be, and if it's not synthesized out, it's not, ⁓ if it hasn't been worked out in some way consciously, then it piles up, right? And like you say, if the norm is that we don't talk about it, then that's where the harm is really done. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, keeping it in is a lot worse than God forbid someone making fun of you. ⁓ That does happen a lot in our field. ⁓ At first I was one of the bullies and I didn't think about it because I was I've only been in the MS 10 years. You know, I've only been at AMS 10 years and a bunch of the guys I worked with were a bunch of the old timers. They were always, ⁓ it's cool. Just brush it off. Don't worry about it. We don't talk about it anymore. Okay, cool. So a bunch of the other newer people came in and I was training them and like, Hey, you're just a freaking pansy. know, you're, you can't do this. Just get out of work. And then I started realizing years into it that I was being a dick. And it wasn't the way it should have been, you know, the way it should have been as, all right, you're new. Tell me how you're feeling. Tell me what's going on. Why do you think you feel this way? And start giving them some of the reasons when I got into it, you know, one of my very first calls was holding a dead three month old in my hands. And it stays with you. Of course it does, but if you don't talk about it, stays longer and it dwells and it builds and it turns into a snowball effect from hell. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, yeah, we need to metabolize it in some way. Absolutely. And, and, know, I think in my upbringing, similarly, like I was that dick. It also was like I was the tough guy and, know, the macho guy and making fun of the other guys. But, at the heart, the root of that, that was just my own insecurities and looking for acceptance and belonging and which leads then back to the family upbringing and the youngest of six and whatever, blah, blah, blah, you know. Christopher Stockton: Okay, we. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. And, and, so it's all what it was. And you know, there's, have to have that forgiveness of self. And I hope you've done that, because we were just acting out all that we knew, all the tools that we had in that time, right. And if we knew better, hopefully we would have done better and we know better now and we are doing. Christopher Stockton: Very true. So why do you think it is that we seem to praise people like that or keep agging it on or allowing it to happen, I should say? Trevor Stevenson: It all comes from that same sense of acceptance, Chris. Dr. Gabor Mate talks about this a lot. He has some really great books that your audience, I think, would appreciate. ⁓ You know, The Myth of Normal, The Body Keeps Score. I can't think of those other ones right now, but he also just has a lot of stuff online, does a lot of podcasts and interviews and things. ⁓ And he talks about acceptance versus authenticity. So if we were being authentic and we saw that, most often we don't, like if we have evolved to any extent, we don't think that's funny. We don't think that's right or just, but we don't have the courage or the confidence to say it. And so that is the amygdala response of fawning, right? We know fight or flight that we talk about so much, the fawning is like, ⁓ you're great. Yeah, that's funny. You're so cool. ⁓ And that is because we see that that person in some way has something that Christopher Stockton: Right. Okay. Okay. Trevor Stevenson: ⁓ we consider superior. They have attention. We long for that. So we long for their attention. And that started all the way back from birth, where if, if, know, we've got that little spoon to our mouth with the Cheerios on it and, my gosh, look at my baby. You're so smart. You're so capable. But if we threw, if we were upset and we threw the Cheerios, then it's like, no bad stop. Right. And which one does our, our, our innate Christopher Stockton: Huh. Trevor Stevenson: ⁓ response move toward, well, they move towards acceptance. And so we start to do things more and more toward acceptance. And then there's, there's, there's situations that lead more towards like the, the throwing the cereal, because that is a form of attention as well that some people get because they're never, they can't do anything right, you know, and so kind of screw it. Okay. And then those people move into more maladaptive strategies of like, of crime and violence and all these things that happen. But at the root of it, so much of it is about this acceptance versus authenticity. And they think, if I show my true self, if I'm crying like you at work, if I'm crying, people are going to make fun of me. That started on the school ground. That started in our homes. So we move. Christopher Stockton: Right. Very true. Trevor Stevenson: more and more towards acceptance and doing things that we think will impress others. And we do it then for grades and we do it with our looks and then we do it to attract our first partner. And then we do it in the workplace, right? We put on these masks and no, no, of course I'll stay late. You know, yeah, I'd be happy to do it. No, I'm missing my daughter's dancer side at all. I'm skipping my yoga practice again, whatever, right? And so we moved towards acceptance versus authenticity of what's actually going on. And so the practice of authenticity Christopher Stockton: Okay. Trevor Stevenson: is such an important thing for us to grow into. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, I've never heard it put that way, especially as you said the fawning I've never heard it called that before that's very interesting I like that and you're right. I think we all strive to be Wanted in the end, I guess you could say and that kind of helps build on the bullying and What have you because ⁓ he's being a dick. I'll be a dick Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. Yeah. Christopher Stockton: in the back. Right. Yep. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. We fit in then, right? We fit in with the cool crowd. We don't want to be the guy getting bullied. So what are my choices here? If I put up my hand and say, hey, Dick, you're being a dick, what's going to happen? Christopher Stockton: very true. They're gonna make fun of you. Trevor Stevenson: Right? That doesn't feel good. The thought of it. What a world we live in. And that's only like friggin look at it now with the internet, right? And social media. Right? So it's. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ god. Trevor Stevenson: Yes. Christopher Stockton: You know, most of us, actually I haven't written down as most responders don't collapse overnight, but honestly, humans don't just collapse overnight. It's a process all within itself and it grows and it builds and you know, they slowly normalize the exhaustion, the numbness, the irritability, the emotional shutdown. I was there a few times and you know, they become distant to their loved ones. just because they don't know how to get it out. don't know how to ⁓ make themselves better. If you noticed something like that one of your clients, how would you go about helping them understand, hey, this is what's going on. This is what you should be doing. How about we fix it this way? Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, it always starts with the self. ⁓ You know, also in consideration of our conversation, I looked up the rates of divorce, disease, suicide in first responders versus the rest of the population. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ yeah. Trevor Stevenson: all way above, right? So it's part of the culture, but it's part of the who I am as well. When you think of first responders, what's their job? It's not that I'm responding to myself first. It's I'm responding to somebody else first. I have another poem that I wrote for that nurses, the last thing we did with a big crew at a local hospital here. And it was about that, how I'm serving everybody's needs before my own. Christopher Stockton: Yep. you Trevor Stevenson: and that myself is crying out for that attention. And that is the self empathy part again, that so few of us learned empathy in general, but it has to start with empathy. And that was my journey. That's what my coach beat into me. It's like, Trevor, get out of your head. What are you feeling good in your heart? And ⁓ that is it, Chris, like where I coach all people first, if we look at any situation. Christopher Stockton: Okay. Thank Okay. Trevor Stevenson: whether it's work or just the thoughts in my head or a conversation with my spouse or stuff going on between me and the kids, it all, we have to work on that connection to self, understanding ⁓ my reactivity to the thing that just happened or my reflection of the thing that just happened. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't holding the three month old lifeless child. Christopher Stockton: Yep. Okay. Trevor Stevenson: It was like all my thoughts about it that hurt and continue to hurt. Right? So it's what we make meaning of in our mind. And for better or for worse, one of the few things we have control over is our thinking and how we choose to act. And so the best thing that we can do is recognize that foremost, need to pause and take care of ourselves. That again, the amygdala hijack, fight, flight, fawn, freeze, faint, any of those are are the amygdala, like our reptilian brain's natural order to take care of us. But it doesn't know the difference between a life-threatening event or just like my phone dinging at 4.30 with the boss saying, I need to stay late. Like we get that same, like dump the cortisol and adrenaline that's going to have you, you know, lift that car off someone's leg or dump the same emotional cocktail. Christopher Stockton: Hm. Trevor Stevenson: ⁓ into our body just because I know now I'm going to miss my daughter's dance recital. We get the same stress response in the body physiologically and that then has us age, creates disease. And like you were saying, it doesn't happen overnight. It's drip, drip, drip, drip. When that is our all day long, we're having threat responses to our thinking about the situations. ⁓ I don't want to go to work. know. Christopher Stockton: Right. Okay. Trevor Stevenson: I got all this stuff and I can't talk about it and they're gonna make fun of me if I do. I was like, these thoughts, right? And I go into work and I know there's gonna be some other just shit storm going on. It's like, and it's like, so I have to go inward and recognize when I'm ⁓ in a threat state, calm my sympathetic parasympathetic nervous system through the breath or through exercise or through, we can reach for different strategies once we know Christopher Stockton: That's wow, that's a lot at once but yeah, that's I like it and I don't think we understand how to release it properly as you were saying pretty much a minute ago was you know, we we hold it all in and instead of releasing it ⁓ We just let it build and that is It's something that Trevor Stevenson: The need that we have is just to calm down and settle. Christopher Stockton: you know, causes the damage onto us. We hold onto it, you know, it's not just, it doesn't cause it just to us. It causes it to people around us. And I know you even said that on your intake form as well. Um, and man, you know, the EMS law enforcement fire, we, we are professionals about it. And we do stuff it down professionally, I should say, I guess in a way, but that stuffing it down causes the anger. The isolation, the bad habits of drinking, illicit drugs, the withdrawal, and even really blowing up at our spouses and loved ones or hell, the – pardon my language – even the fucking partners on the truck because we deal with them more than we deal with our family. ⁓ And I don't – and as you said earlier these stats for us are way up there and I think that is a reason is because we don't know how to properly take down our shields or talk to people, you know, and that cost a lot of people personally, their lives, their happiness, ⁓ you know, how we all feel about it in the end and I don't know Really where I was going with that in the end, but... ⁓ Trevor Stevenson: Well, I'm curious if I could turn the table here. ⁓ How do your colleagues receive what you're doing here with this show? do you have that courage now to live this out in the EMS world ⁓ and say, God, that was really scary what we just went through. How do you feel about it? Or that was really stressful. What's going on for you? How is that received by your colleagues now? Christopher Stockton: Now, ⁓ most of my colleagues actually listen to my show, and they are coming around to it. And it's actually starting to build, to me, the more that the crews are able to talk to each other about that, it builds a stronger bond. It builds a stronger sense of trust ⁓ between the crews. ⁓ That to me is bigger than being able to talk about it because without a stronger crew, you're not able to properly adjust, overcome, adapt, if you will. You know, the other day I actually noticed something about a buddy of mine, one of my coworkers, and I went up calling him the next day because he was freaked out and I wanted to be able to give him a little bit of time to... cope with it, understand it, and I called them, checked on them. Just because of the fact of you need to trust your crews with that you're with that you can tell them anything, you can talk to them. And that is the biggest thing to me. You know, I don't know how to get people to understand more that, you know, when you become more reactive, you don't detach, you don't become more numb, you actually start healing. you detach, become numb, you stress your relationships out, you cause your family to notice things about you that you don't even notice. And I'm sure you've actually seen that in your in your side of work as well. I'm sure you the families as well and their Words and actions are probably just as important as your client Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, that's it. And, and, you know, we've also grown up in a ⁓ culture, Chris, where, like, it's so easy to not accept that response. It's like, ⁓ and then it becomes a hierarchical thing, you know, obviously, it's still quite a male dominated these fields that we're describing, right. And so we, we kind of can pull the patriarchy card as well, and say, don't talk back to me. Christopher Stockton: Yep. Trevor Stevenson: or think that we're right and that, you know, and again, you live in a command and control environment, which is necessary for people's survival. And so how do you now turn that off when your kid is, you know, talking back to you, air quotes for those who are just listening. ⁓ And I was on that show yesterday and like how that has been one of the hardest things to receive, but also one of the greatest teachers. Like when a child will have a real conversation with us about how they received my parenting, you know? ⁓ And so, yeah, to be able to, for me to be able to hear, I don't need to hear it. It's dad who needs to be able to hear it, you know, or mom. Christopher Stockton: And You know, I've seen it. I've worked offshore. I've worked on land as a medic. ⁓ know, honestly, the guys that I've worked with have been absolute machines when they work. They they're calm in the chaos when I need them to be calm in the chaos. Everybody trust them. I've worked with captains. I've worked with offshore installation managers that have been damnedest people I've ever met in my life. They could turn a switch in their head in a fucking instant and They could be joking with you and the next minute they're like a Marine Corps Sergeant. You know, it's funny. And the sad thing is one of the guys I worked with, did end up killing himself offshore. ⁓ And I think that is because he didn't know how to get it out. ⁓ You know, we all go home, we get and sit in the silence. We sit in our driveways just because we don't know how to transition back. And that's not just first response. You know, don't get me wrong. If anyone's listening, that's not in first response. But as you said earlier, Trevor is our stats are way up there. And that is another mechanism to me that that stops ⁓ that from coming down is we don't know how to properly rely on ourselves to go back to being a normal person. We're always in that, you know, life or death situation in our own heads. And we always Live it 24-7. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, yeah, again, compound effect, right? You've got that and our lack of education around emotional intelligence and ⁓ conscious communication, right? Christopher Stockton: That right there, I think is 100 % true too. And the whole psychology behind it is interesting to me on that. We seem to be trained on psychology, but I don't think that they could delve into it 100 % with everybody because of how vast it is, how much it can change. And again, that's why everyone has their own specialties, but. You know, lot of it is burnout in the end, I think. ⁓ And that starts to cause the irritability, numbness, emotional distancing, functioning without the joy of your job. ⁓ I love my job. about two or three years ago, I was dreading going to work every day. You know, I love it now, but I found a way to release what I need to release. I have. This has been my way of releasing things here is this podcast. ⁓ you know, you gotta find a hobby. You gotta find something outside of your normal everyday life that will give you joy. We'll, we'll be able to help you learn to delve into further experiences. You know, I have a former partner of mine who he was actually a baby, very famous, ⁓ Tik Tok star at one point and That started causing him more issues because he enjoyed it at first and it started becoming a job. He hated it. It started making him hate work because he couldn't do it at work. He started hating it at home because it was always, I have to do this now. I have to do this this way. And ever since he left TikTok, has been, now he's mountain climbing. He's CrossFit. He's doing all kinds of crap. And it's amazing to see him grow like that, you know? ⁓ Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. Christopher Stockton: You know, we should all challenge this thing we were talking about, suck it up and power through culture. know, honestly, the first response culture says we care about the mental health now, but I don't think a lot of people are actually opening up about it. You know, like we said earlier, they feel like they're going to get judged. They feel like they're going to get sidelined or... Oh, well, you may not be able to be working on the truck today or you may not be able to respond to calls today. You know, um, hell even police officers, know, I've been talked to a few of them lately and they're scared of saying it out loud because, oh, well I shot this guy and now I feel bad about it. That's a natural occurring reaction you should have. Just because that is part of your job does not mean that is how you need to live. Um, and so. Where going with this is why are we still so bad at talking about it honestly? Why are we so bad about opening up about it in your opinion? I know we kind of covered a little bit of it earlier, but. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, and so I'll guide us right back there. you know, it's the acceptance versus authenticity. It's that we were born into judgment. ⁓ you're such a cute baby. Or you get all the grades you got are so good. ⁓ look, you got another award at soccer, you know, and then the grading literal grading system, you know, the pass fail the ABC and, and the judgment and again, Christopher Stockton: You Trevor Stevenson: just the exponential ⁓ pace of how judgment evolves with social media now, and especially for our young people, right? It's always a comparison. And so that judgment is huge within us. And so when we're afraid of speaking, which is again, the root of what you were just describing, Chris, my fear of... saying what is going on for me. Well, number one, I don't think I have the right language. So it's going to be all like, and I might cry and blah, blah, blah. But the real like what's behind that is a fear of judgment, which is real. Right. An interesting twist on that, that I'll challenge your guests with is I am actually judging you thinking that you will judge me. And so Christopher Stockton: Yeah, very much. Okay. Trevor Stevenson: If we can hold onto that one and say, we're the one judging thinking that Chris is, if I tell Chris that I'm having a hard time or that my wife and I are going through this thing, I'm judging you saying Chris won't understand it or Chris will say, I don't worry about it, suck it up or ⁓ you'll be okay. And so I'm thinking that you are going to think badly or judge me. And so it just takes this courage, just a second of courage. And so, Christopher Stockton: Okay. Okay. Trevor Stevenson: you know, and y'all live on courage. And so if and it's funny, like, again, know, dudes, especially will jump off anything, jump into anything like, But but have a real conversations. You know, scares the hell out of us. And so it's that moment of courage again, whether it's our wife or our child or our boss or our colleague, it's like Christopher Stockton: It happened. No. Trevor Stevenson: Can I just own something, like share something real and authentic? It might be not come out the right way, but what it will do is open something up that if I'm willing to kind of stand in that fire and keep going and saying, you know, sorry, I saw your reaction. I didn't mean it that way, but I just, and fumble our way through, we're progressing. So it's that moment of courage to like let go of our judgment of the other person thinking they're going to judge us. Christopher Stockton: you you Trevor Stevenson: Get ready for the shit storm that might come when we actually say it and stick with it so that we can grow beyond it, that we can evolve, then things will actually change. Someone has to go first, right? It's what you're doing here, Chris. And you described it, the culture, the crew, the team around you, you're seeing a shift. Someone has to go first. I would love to work more in this space with the different departments and stuff. Just... Because they're, trust me, they're like, guys will talk to me all the time. They do, they'll come and they'll talk to me. I'm like, dude, come join Fundamental, come join this men's community. Oh, no, no, no, no. I'll talk to you. I couldn't talk to anyone else about this. I'm like, ah, that's what everybody says, man. And then you get in there on like call one and just sit back and listen. I was like, oh, oh yeah, me too. Oh, let me tell you what's going on for me. You know, and right away we're in because. Christopher Stockton: Right. You . Trevor Stevenson: we see we're all going through the same ship and we're all like raised in a similar type of culture that's judgmental, that we move towards acceptance. And we were never given that course in school about emotional intelligence or authentic communication. And so here we are. ⁓ Christopher Stockton: I've never thought about it put that way like you just put it is the reverse thought of the judgment either is We are actually doing that to ourselves ⁓ and that's I Don't know why I just realized that when you said it that way, but that that's something that I think Internally, we're not processing properly is What if they don't judge me? That was a very good point you made. What's the best case scenario? Don't always go to the worst case scenario. And one thing you said hit me hard is the people closest to me feel it the most. And that's the part of the job that doesn't prepare us for it. Our families end up absorbing stress they don't create. So talk to me about that one too if you don't mind. Trevor Stevenson: What's the best case scenario? ⁓ huh. Christopher Stockton: I know it pretty much delves back to what we just talked about, but... Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, yes, and like it's really and you kind of touched on it earlier, Chris, but it's that ripple effect. We can't hide the stuff that's alive inside of us. We talk about pushing it down. It's there somewhere. Like you said, if you don't have an avenue, a channel, whether it's through a hobby or fitness or whatever, healthy outlet for these things, it just lids on in us. But then even with all of those things, you know, I could have, you know, I could have the biggest train set in the world. And ⁓ it doesn't necessarily help me with my wife saying I'm not emotionally available for a conversation, you know? ⁓ So that stuff that lives within us is felt by those around us. My kids will come in off the school bus. I don't need to say anything. Christopher Stockton: you Okay. Trevor Stevenson: they feel my energy the second they come through that door and they respond accordingly. They like shy away or walking on eggshells or they're like, Hey, what's up? You And so I think that's the important aspect of it is that our energy proceeds us and it's felt by those around us. And over the long term, that is your legacy. And so we ask ourselves, what do we want our legacy to be with those we love the most? We want to be known as that crusty, angry, ⁓ silent, Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Trevor Stevenson: unavailable, too busy, you know, whatever dad or mom, or do we want to be that maybe a little bit messy, but authentic, real, available, caring, empathetic, honest person, you know, and that evolves. And I think that's been my thing, right? It's like I was the former and I continue to work towards the latter. to, I don't always get it right, but I'm keep trying, I'm gonna come back and apologize or say that, let it know that came out wrong or I didn't mean it, I shouldn't have come with that tone, ⁓ but here's what was real to me and do it and our kids are an example of that now, having a higher emotional intelligence and being able to not feel that judgment of others and again, they're about as perfect as I am, which is a long way from perfect. Christopher Stockton: Okay. ain't none of us perfect. Trevor Stevenson: My wife always says, I'll be perfect when I'm dead, you know. ⁓ And so I think that ⁓ is the biggest thing that pushes people away is our inability, not our inability, our unwillingness to work on it. And a lot of women will talk to me about that and say, you know, I tried to support my husband to come along to talk, encourage him to be open and share, especially first responders, right? Christopher Stockton: They notice it before we do. Trevor Stevenson: they know what's going on for you guys. They know there's a whole shit storm going on out there. Right? And they want you to be able to share and not carry the weight of it because they feel the weight of it. Right? And then they encourage and encourage and then they say, well, then I like started pushing and like bitching at them to like change or get help or to talk to someone and it still wouldn't change. And I realized I didn't want to be that person. I don't want to be bitchy. And so they're like, sorry. I gotta leave. I love you, but I gotta leave. You know, I can't live like this. And that is just so heartbreaking because it's like, y'all are good, good, great, fantastic people. And it's just this thing that we've never learned how to do that breaks relationships. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, that actually brings me to the next question I got written down. Actually, it's kind of funny. You just brought that up. So what conversations do you think couples try to avoid for such a long time and why? Trevor Stevenson: We don't speak from a place of needs. And this is Marshall Rosenberg's work in nonviolent communication. He speaks of needs, but you could replace it with values of what, you know, we've married, hopefully, for those values that we have. Sometimes as we evolve our strategies for meeting, like I have such a deep need for fun and playin', and that might've been goin' out and gettin' pissed and, you know, partying and dancin' or whatever. And now it might be, you know. Christopher Stockton: Okay. . Trevor Stevenson: yoga and meditation and mountain biking or whatever that fills my soul in that way. And so our strategies change and evolve. And what we don't talk about is those, the misalignment. The conversation that doesn't happen is when I feel something that I don't talk about, when I feel a frustration, a sadness, loneliness, a resentment within me, and I don't talk about it, that's what starts to create the rift. And, ⁓ Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Trevor Stevenson: Those are the same scary conversations that I talked about. So we push it down. No, it doesn't bother me. No, doesn't bother me. I'll just go to the garage and, you look at the engine and have a couple of pints or something. But it builds in us. It builds in us. And then we are at this place where we can't even look at that person. There's such a frustration and annoyance, a resentment within us, right? Us, them, or they, us, or both. And so it's really like, Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Trevor Stevenson: getting attuned to when my need for connection, for support, for love, for alignment, for honesty, whatever those needs might be. And again, we were never taught the language of these needs. And so what I want is this from you. I want more sex. I want dinner on the table at six. I want my kids not to talk back to me. And those are wants. Underneath those, are our needs. And so that might be a need for connection. Christopher Stockton: Hm. Trevor Stevenson: And what are the different strategies that would meet my need for connection then? Well, it doesn't mean I need to have sex five times a week or something, right? That can look differently. And if there's an openness on our part to address it from a needs base versus you need to do this thing for me so that I will have a better experience, then we've got a better shot at it happening because we can guilt people and we do into that, right? You don't know my story. You don't know what I'm living. You know how hard I'm doing. All I'm looking for is a little affection when I get home, you know, and it's like, and that can work for a while until it doesn't. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, I think you hit a nail on the head with that one in my opinion. Trevor Stevenson: Trying to be real. Not my experience, of course. Christopher Stockton: I've had that experience and that's why I was like, ⁓ wow, I just realized this. It doesn't happen anymore, but wait a minute. That makes sense. That was me. Trevor Stevenson: Ha ha. Yay. 100%. Yeah, well, I dare to say we all go through it. Christopher Stockton: And that's else that ⁓ you said as well as ⁓ you put emotions are information. And that's not something that most responders were taught growing up as you said, actually, none of us really are. ⁓ You know, we were always taught you like we've been saying this whole episode is we ignore it, push it down, stay productive. So When you do start slowing it down enough to actually pay attention to yourself, pay attention to your family, I think, and you can correct me and build on this, but I think that the slower you go to it, the faster you're able to build yourself back up to where you need to be. Trevor Stevenson: ⁓ slower you go toward what? Christopher Stockton: build yourself back. like say for instance we were just talking about the wants versus needs. So just to start with something like that at home you know if you're not done at all now maybe once twice a week to start out with start slow and right and just start building. Trevor Stevenson: Communicate with me. 100 % Yeah, I know, like everything we've talked about here can be, you know, it's the right audience drinking from the fire hose. But it's a really great point that the one thing if we can have that self empathy, if we can just start there, Chris, of just the noticing what's going on for me. And I can, again, blanket statement, but I'm going to say 95 % of the time what I need first is calm. And if I can find strategies, and because it's again, it's that emergency response, my amygdala is going off saying you need to run or you need to fight, then ⁓ or you need to pretend that everything's okay. That ⁓ if we can just sit with the emotions, if we can Christopher Stockton: No. Okay. . Trevor Stevenson: Be aware, and there's lists of emotions online that are free and easy to access. You can get the emotion wheel, it's really cool. And ⁓ just try to name the emotion just for fun. Make a game of it. It's like, what was that emotion? know, because we also name our thoughts as emotions. Well, I think he's just disrespecting me. That's not an emotion, that's a thought. If we have to put like, that or like or as though I feel as though you don't trust me. Not a feeling, that's a thought. And so when I think that you don't trust me, how do I feel? Oh, I feel frustrated or I feel lonely or I feel scared, you know? I feel that you're an asshole. It's also not a feeling, you know, that's a thought. When I think that you're an asshole, Christopher Stockton: Hm. Trevor Stevenson: I actually, yeah, I feel frustrated or I feel despondent or something. And so emotions are one word, there's an emoji for it, you know, and so pull up your wheel and that's such a great place to start and then know that the first thing you're going to need to do is find calm and try to do that in a way that's not harm, that's not. Christopher Stockton: So. Trevor Stevenson: shopping or gambling or porn or smoking or drinking, but maybe pushups or a breath or walk in the forest or playing with your kids or, you know, playing with the dog, throwing the frisbee, whatever, find ways to bring yourself back into your body so that you calm your nervous system. And now that you're calm, you can look back at the situation. You can ask yourself, so what would the courageous conversation be right now about a clear Christopher Stockton: Okay. Trevor Stevenson: expression of what just happened. When you said that thing, I realized that, you know, my first thought was that you don't respect me. But now that's arguable. You see, if I talk about thoughts, it's arguable. No, that's not true. I didn't know I didn't raise my voice, blah, blah. But if I, but if I say I felt I felt annoyed or I felt sad, nobody can argue that they may judge you. But Christopher Stockton: Right. Trevor Stevenson: And then we can, you I don't want go too deep because I know we want to keep this practical and actionable, but yeah, that first comes to self-awareness and empathy, which is like doing the thing that's going to calm me. And second is the courageous conversation. Christopher Stockton: And I might again be wrong ⁓ but on that side do you think a lot of people don't do that because they're scared because they've never done it and it's it's a fear that like huh I haven't done it so I'm scared to do it it's gonna be a first time but then once they do it they're like ⁓ this is amazing Trevor Stevenson: Hmm. Yeah. Again, you nailed it. And I think like how, what percentage of your audience is going to hear this and say, ⁓ yeah, Google, you know, wheel of feelings and they're going to hit. And then they're going to print that and then they're going to, next time they're frustrated or annoyed, they're going to pull that out and they're going to actually do it. You know, we're getting smaller and smaller percentages with every action that it takes for us to do it because as uncomfortable as it is, the familiar. Christopher Stockton: I may should join that later. Trevor Stevenson: is easier for us. And so we'll live in the pain instead of taking action on the thing that could change it all, which is the unfortunate side of our culture and being human. It's just like we go with what's familiar. We call it our comfort zone, but it's not even comfortable. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, I've never understood that term. Trevor Stevenson: Really? Yeah, yeah. And it is as well that to like, it's scary to have a conversation of something that's really damn important to us. And we don't know that we how it's going to end up. And and every time I tried to bring it up before, they react in this way. And so it always seems worse because I haven't like had the skills to keep going in it. And so, ⁓ shit, that didn't work. Push it down, push it down for another three weeks. Christopher Stockton: Right. Trevor Stevenson: three months, six months, and then we erode, erode, erode until we explode. Christopher Stockton: Hmm. Damn, you have me thinking now. So if you could change one thing in the first responder culture, because as you said, your brother is the first responder. Your bunch of your friends are first responders. ⁓ What do you think it would be that you could ⁓ change almost immediately, really? ⁓ Not the motivational posters, not the bullshit, ⁓ here's a pizza party. What a real change. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. That's cool. I've been thinking about that, you know, because it's, you know, it's a big ship to turn, right? ⁓ I think, you know, we all like challenge, all like gamification and stuff. It's like, is there something that we can do that allows us to practice naming our emotions? Is there, know, the suggestion box where, you know, you can't tell who put it in or whatever? Can we, at the end of the shift, can we... write a note of what was the hardest thing and how that made us feel. ⁓ And then, you know, maybe like what's called Chris Kringle or ⁓ the Secret Santa thing, we pull one out and we read someone else's message. I think just developing a real culture about honest shares, however the heck we can do that. You know, when I go in, It's easy to do and facilitate something like this. And the conversation people can open up just like that because, we've got a guy here. This is what he does. But if it doesn't ⁓ continue within, if there isn't someone that is continuing to keep that alive, then it quickly just disappears and dissipates. So I think the most important thing, yeah, if my heart were to choose, it's just to courageously open up to someone. Christopher Stockton: Okay. Yes. Trevor Stevenson: Just one person who you know loves you. And again, that could be your mom or it could be that friend on shift. And just share something real that's going on for you. And you can preface it with that exactly. know, Chris, I got something going on for me and I would love your support. And if that is just listening without responding and not reacting. Christopher Stockton: you you Trevor Stevenson: That is perfectly fine, but I just have stuff that I want to share. Would you be open to that? Christopher Stockton: That's a big ask for people in my opinion too, but as we just said that would be a major shift a major change and a major relief and in my opinion to a lot of people ⁓ Especially command staff for instance, you know, I don't I don't think a lot of command staff remembers where they were when they started. I think they have almost been brainwashed, if you will, on a certain way to think now. ⁓ Not all of them. but, and I think something like that, to be able to speak to a command staff or to be able to achieve a captain, a sergeant, you know, whatever, what have you, I think That would be the biggest fucking ability in the end to do it because that would help them, it would help you, it would also help build from the top down a better understanding, a better culture as we were saying earlier. ⁓ And that to me is bigger than anything. Trevor Stevenson: Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree. And like you say, that can be the scariest. So unless that relationship with that captain or commander or whatever is that you don't have to go there first. Like I said, go to that person who you trust loves you unconditionally, you know, has your back. If you are the person receiving it, please just say yes, absolutely. And and don't you can share like, yeah, I can absolutely relate, but Don't try to one up the story. You know, well, that's not when you should hear how bad my relationship is because that just sort of diminishes what the person just said. ⁓ You can ask what they need. You know what would help right now? And they're likely going to just say you know this already has and just tell them come to me anytime that that gives me chills. That conversation saves lives, Chris. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. I agree and it really does. It's something that should happen more frequently. ⁓ We should not live in the state of mind of, as we were saying the whole damn episode of, you know, push it down. Don't worry about it. ⁓ Just talking to one person every now and then is such a relief to your own health. And you opening up to them may actually help them understand better. And that's the other thing is, as you were saying earlier, the judgment part, you know, they may not be judging you. They may be judging themselves like, hey, and once you open, hey, they may judge me, you know, it could be the same exact thing, but once you open up to them. They'll understand and then they'll properly understand how to vent and that creates harmony in yourself, the calm and the storm, if you will. And like you said, the calmness is what all of us need. And that does that, it helps build that. We all have to have certain building blocks to start. Trevor Stevenson: Yeah, that's it. And the statistics show it like having just one person with whom we can share honestly, it changes statistics of mental health. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ yeah, drastically. So one last question. ⁓ If someone's listening to this alone, ⁓ either tonight on shift or during the day on shift, maybe they're just sitting in the truck ⁓ or staring at the damn ceiling like I've done before at two o'clock in the morning. ⁓ They're just functioning while at work, but they're quietly falling apart everywhere else. ⁓ What do they need to hear from you today? Trevor Stevenson: Yeah. We've said it a number of times as well. You're not broken. You're not alone. ⁓ And there is a way to heal and move beyond this. ⁓ so reach out and receive. Take that courageous second. Don't let it continue, please. For your life, for the legacy and the relationships around you, for the people you serve on shift. Christopher Stockton: Yeah Trevor Stevenson: but foremost, just for yourself so that you can have more fun, more joy. Find that freedom in yourself by being authentic. Like that's what breaks people is just not being able to share and you know, that we just break down on the inside. So take those deep breaths. Think through who can I talk to? How can I open that conversation with? I want to tell you something. Can you receive it without judgment? And just take action. It's time. You're worth it. Christopher Stockton: Very much so. Very much so. So if people want to follow your word, reach out, learn more about you or your processes, ⁓ how could they find you? Where can they find you? Trevor Stevenson: Instagram is a fun road to freedom. And that's like that same concept we've been sharing, right? It's like, freedom's out there somewhere, but I'm going to have fun on the way. ⁓ it's Trevor Bryce Stevenson on LinkedIn. And ⁓ the website is trevorstevenson.com. We'll take you to all the stuff. And let me be one of those people you reach out to, please, if you don't know who else to reach out to. ⁓ Christopher Stockton: I love it. Trevor Stevenson: I'm always ready to receive and I'd love to connect. Christopher Stockton: I love it. ⁓