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Leading Environmental Projects with Clarity and Confidence · Business Roundtable

0:31
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast once again. I
0:34
Speaker 1: am your host, David Carr. So Glad, Dabby. You're a
0:37
Speaker 1: founder of Steward Your Business, where we bring people together
0:39
Speaker 1: to accomplish great things, and we have another great guest here,
0:44
Speaker 1: David McIntyre. Welcome to the podcast. David.
0:47
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
0:48
Speaker 1: I appreciate it absolutely. David and I go way back,
0:51
Speaker 1: actually through many years working on different projects, and I've
0:56
Speaker 1: been keeping in touch with him since I've started Steward
0:59
Speaker 1: Your Business, and I said, well, I've got to have
1:01
Speaker 1: David here on the podcast because David is a gentleman
1:05
Speaker 1: that has been through a lot in the environmental space
1:08
Speaker 1: in particular, dealing with lots of complex projects. That's what
1:12
Speaker 1: we got working together, and so I wanted him to
1:14
Speaker 1: come on the podcast today, give us some background on
1:18
Speaker 1: his journey as an owner principal with McIntire Environmental and
1:23
Speaker 1: really get into how to run a successful business in
1:26
Speaker 1: the environmental space in particular, and move from a technical
1:30
Speaker 1: person to really a project manager principle to actually running
1:34
Speaker 1: effective projects. And so we're going to get into it today.
1:37
Speaker 1: So listen in, lean in, and you're going to get
1:40
Speaker 1: some amazing insights from David here. So, David, before we
1:44
Speaker 1: get into the meat of it, I always love to
1:46
Speaker 1: have our guests share a bit about their journey, their history,
1:49
Speaker 1: because you have a long history and environmental consulting space
1:52
Speaker 1: before McIntyre Environmental, and I love you just to walk
1:56
Speaker 1: us through a little bit of your history and journey
1:59
Speaker 1: and what got you to you know, McIntire environmental.
2:04
Speaker 2: Well. I graduated from the Naval Academy in nineteen ninety
2:08
Speaker 2: and was commissioned into the Marine Corps. And I spent
2:11
Speaker 2: six years on active duty in the Marine Corps. And
2:14
Speaker 2: I originally was stationed in Campbell June, North Carolina with
2:18
Speaker 2: an infantry battalion versus Battalian eighth Marines, and then transferred
2:24
Speaker 2: after my tour there to Naval Air Station North Island,
2:27
Speaker 2: which is in Tornado, California, and was there for a
2:31
Speaker 2: couple of years before I decided to move into the
2:34
Speaker 2: civilian world. And I had met someone who had gotten
2:39
Speaker 2: me interested in the environment, let's say, in a very
2:45
Speaker 2: vague sense, and I decided to get in. I precided
2:50
Speaker 2: to pursue a graduate degree because that was really the
2:52
Speaker 2: only way that I could envision breaking into the environmental field,
3:00
Speaker 2: not really knowing what the environmental field consisted of. So
3:05
Speaker 2: I got into San Diego State and got a master's
3:09
Speaker 2: in geography from San Diego State, and that was really
3:13
Speaker 2: where I started to get exposure to environmental consulting and
3:19
Speaker 2: just kind of what the environmental industry as a business
3:24
Speaker 2: looked like. And so I got my first job while
3:29
Speaker 2: I was actually still trying to finish running my thesis,
3:34
Speaker 2: for a small company that was working at the US
3:38
Speaker 2: Army Uma Approving Ground, which is outside of you Arizona.
3:42
Speaker 2: One of the reasons that I got the job with
3:44
Speaker 2: no experience in the industry was because they were heavily
3:48
Speaker 2: focused on doing environmental assessments and those types of documents
3:54
Speaker 2: that are part of the National Environmental Policy Act for
3:57
Speaker 2: the Army at Um Approving Ground. Since I had that
4:01
Speaker 2: background in the Marine Corps, they thought that I would
4:04
Speaker 2: be able to understand, you know, have a better understanding
4:08
Speaker 2: of what a project was going to look like from
4:10
Speaker 2: from the military side, and be able to care. So
4:14
Speaker 2: I did that for a year and I did some
4:17
Speaker 2: other like remediation type work, just kind of helping out,
4:21
Speaker 2: you know, because that company also did that type of
4:22
Speaker 2: work as well, which is a completely different business line
4:27
Speaker 2: so to speak, that I never really got much into
4:30
Speaker 2: beyond that. But I was there for about a year
4:33
Speaker 2: and then I decided I did not want to continue
4:37
Speaker 2: to stay in Yuma, and I wanted to come back
4:40
Speaker 2: to San Diego, which is where I've been living. And
4:43
Speaker 2: so I was able to get a job with a
4:45
Speaker 2: company called KA Environmental, which was the largest locally owned
4:50
Speaker 2: consulting firm in the San Diego area. Got a job
4:54
Speaker 2: with them, and then a couple months after I started there,
4:58
Speaker 2: I learned what happens when and companies merge and acquired,
5:02
Speaker 2: and AA Environmental got acquired by a company called EDA
5:06
Speaker 2: ed a w. Which has been a very well known
5:12
Speaker 2: landscape architecture firm for for decades. And the founders of
5:17
Speaker 2: EDA were, you know, were extremely well known in the
5:19
Speaker 2: landscape architecture world. They designed the Centennial Park in Atlanta
5:24
Speaker 2: for the nineteen ninety six Olympics, that designed designed a
5:27
Speaker 2: number of the venues for the Salt Lake City Olympics
5:31
Speaker 2: in two They did that kind of work, I mean,
5:34
Speaker 2: very up in landscape architecture work. So they acquired our company.
5:40
Speaker 2: We became part of EDA, and we and we were
5:42
Speaker 2: the largest UH office in the company and we were
5:47
Speaker 2: really solely focused on environmental consulting. So from there, one
5:52
Speaker 2: of the things that they that attracted me or attracted
5:56
Speaker 2: them to me, or vice versa, was they had a
5:58
Speaker 2: contract with Naval Facilities Engineering Command Southwest and so Navy
6:04
Speaker 2: and Marine CORPN EPA, so really getting into my background
6:08
Speaker 2: and that was what made me attractive to them. So
6:10
Speaker 2: I was there for several years, got back in the
6:12
Speaker 2: Marine Corps Reserve for a little while, did a deployment
6:15
Speaker 2: to Iraq as part of that, and then came back
6:19
Speaker 2: and really wanted to try to go do something more
6:23
Speaker 2: but in the consulting firm field, and so I got
6:27
Speaker 2: a job with another company called Ecology and Environment that
6:31
Speaker 2: was wanting to start an office in San Diego. They
6:34
Speaker 2: also had a contract with NAFAC Southwest, and so I
6:39
Speaker 2: started their San Diego office and did that from nineteen
6:47
Speaker 2: let me pick it back, I did it from two
6:49
Speaker 2: thousand and six. In twenty eleven, I relocated to Tucson, Arizona,
6:55
Speaker 2: which is where my wife is from. And after a
6:58
Speaker 2: couple of years is non uncommon. You know companies EBB
7:02
Speaker 2: and Flow and they do and they have successes and
7:05
Speaker 2: then they start to struggle. Yes, And I kind of
7:07
Speaker 2: felt like, Okay, we're really going to end up in
7:09
Speaker 2: a period of struggle here, and so I decided maybe
7:13
Speaker 2: it would be a good time to transition to something
7:15
Speaker 2: quite a bit different, and so I want to work
7:17
Speaker 2: for the eear of Land Management and I had a
7:21
Speaker 2: job there. I worked in the Tucson Field Office, met
7:25
Speaker 2: some really great people who really taught me a lot
7:27
Speaker 2: about some of the inner workings about the Beeer of
7:30
Speaker 2: Land Management that really you can't get unless you work there, right,
7:35
Speaker 2: You can't do it on the outside without talking to someone.
7:38
Speaker 2: And there were some people there I'll name one, Francisca Mendoza,
7:41
Speaker 2: who really was an expert in recreation and every aspect
7:45
Speaker 2: of the BLM's recreation program. And he was able to
7:48
Speaker 2: explain to me a lot of the this is why
7:50
Speaker 2: this is done this way, and this is why this
7:52
Speaker 2: is done that way. He was really an expert. He
7:54
Speaker 2: was really great working with him. But after a while
7:58
Speaker 2: a couple of years, I knew that, you know, working
8:01
Speaker 2: for the federal government and all the bureaucracy was going
8:04
Speaker 2: to be something I probably cannot sustain for the long haul.
8:08
Speaker 2: I did not want to go back to a company,
8:10
Speaker 2: to a big firm or even a you know, I'm
8:13
Speaker 2: a small company. I really wanted to do something on
8:16
Speaker 2: my own, and so I incorporated back Entire Environmental while
8:22
Speaker 2: I was there, but I really didn't do anything with
8:23
Speaker 2: it for about a year. And then I was able
8:25
Speaker 2: to get a couple of contracts and I was able
8:28
Speaker 2: to convince my wife that I can make a go
8:31
Speaker 2: of this. Yes, and so she said, okay, you can
8:35
Speaker 2: quit your job, and so I started doing McIntire Environmental
8:39
Speaker 2: full time and that was in August of twenty sixteen
8:43
Speaker 2: and we have been progressing ever since.
8:46
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, no, I love that number one. Thank you
8:50
Speaker 1: for your service, you know, And I think I hope
8:53
Speaker 1: everybody is leaning and listening because David just give you,
8:56
Speaker 1: you know, this background of experience varied and I have
9:01
Speaker 1: similar experience in both the private sector and public sector,
9:04
Speaker 1: and I think it's really valuable. David. I think you
9:06
Speaker 1: went from the private sector to the public sectors I did.
9:09
Speaker 1: I think that's a different perspective and I'm not everybody
9:12
Speaker 1: gets that. So I agree with you from the inside out.
9:15
Speaker 1: I happen to be at the County of Riverside for
9:17
Speaker 1: a number of years the same kind of thing. It's
9:19
Speaker 1: a different understanding, right, and now you know how to help.
9:22
Speaker 1: And you've done so much work with the federal government
9:24
Speaker 1: among other things too, and that's a whole even like
9:27
Speaker 1: it's a Department of Defense and all of these other elements.
9:30
Speaker 1: So these are not simple easy projects that you've you've
9:36
Speaker 1: stepped into. Is you've you really found a niche you know,
9:39
Speaker 1: in with macintar environ Mental And why one of the
9:42
Speaker 1: things why I wanted to have you on the podcast
9:44
Speaker 1: David too is because for those of you that have
9:46
Speaker 1: not connected with David, we're connected on LinkedIn and David
9:49
Speaker 1: does regularly post articles and information breaking this down because
9:56
Speaker 1: it's complex how to navigate through these ever changing laws, regulations,
10:02
Speaker 1: you know, edicts will right and so so now that
10:09
Speaker 1: you've been doing McIntyre Environmental, David, you know, tell you know,
10:14
Speaker 1: share if you will, like some of the things that
10:17
Speaker 1: you're seeing the challenges out there that you've navigated in
10:23
Speaker 1: the environmental project management space. You know that you know
10:27
Speaker 1: that you've been able to successfully manage, but what are
10:29
Speaker 1: those what are you seeing as issues roadblocks to successfully
10:33
Speaker 1: managing running these type of projects you talked about.
10:36
Speaker 2: Well, I think first and foremost, I mean I, like
10:38
Speaker 2: I said, I started this in the full time in
10:41
Speaker 2: August of twenty sixteen. President Trump was elected in November
10:45
Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen, and that really changed the NEPA world,
10:51
Speaker 2: you know, which is what most of us operate or
10:53
Speaker 2: a lot of us if they don't either we operate
10:55
Speaker 2: in the neighbor world, or we are doing something that
10:58
Speaker 2: is going to support ANIPA type document.
11:01
Speaker 1: It's federal. It covers all all fifty states. You know,
11:04
Speaker 1: you have some other some environmental laws of here locally,
11:07
Speaker 1: state or or but everybody's got that umbrella. Like you
11:11
Speaker 1: said that, this this federal.
11:13
Speaker 2: So if you're if you're doing work for a federal
11:15
Speaker 2: agency and you're in the environmental arena, you know, unless
11:19
Speaker 2: you're doing something like RICRA or something with hazardous waste,
11:23
Speaker 2: you're probably going to be running into NEPA. And NIPA
11:28
Speaker 2: did not change much in terms of the regulations from
11:32
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, when the CEQU issued their first guidelines,
11:37
Speaker 2: until President Trump came into office in twenty sixteen, and
11:40
Speaker 2: then they begin to change significantly. And there were other
11:45
Speaker 2: laws like the Clean Water Act that changed significantly during
11:48
Speaker 2: his administration. Then President Biden was elected, and so some
11:53
Speaker 2: things reverted back to what they were, some things did not.
11:56
Speaker 2: Some of the frankly, some of the changes that were
11:59
Speaker 2: in act did under the Trump administration stayed. Now we
12:05
Speaker 2: come to twenty twenty four, President Trump comes back into
12:08
Speaker 2: office and there are even more changes, and so I
12:11
Speaker 2: think keeping abreast of all these changes is probably the
12:16
Speaker 2: biggest challenge that I see today because even the agencies
12:20
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what is going to happen. And if
12:23
Speaker 2: you go to someone who works for the Foreign Service
12:27
Speaker 2: and say, okay, what are we going to do now
12:29
Speaker 2: based on the executive order that was released two days ago,
12:33
Speaker 2: they're not completely sure. And because the government is very
12:37
Speaker 2: slow to change. The government doesn't you know, the government
12:40
Speaker 2: moves like a battleship changing course. They are not a speedboat.
12:45
Speaker 2: So that I think is the biggest thing, because when
12:48
Speaker 2: clients come to you and they say, what is this
12:51
Speaker 2: going to look like now in today's world, you know,
12:55
Speaker 2: I'm not positive what it's going to what an environmental
12:57
Speaker 2: assessment is going to look like, I don't know how
12:59
Speaker 2: big is going to be. I don't know how much
13:02
Speaker 2: long it's going to take. And that's partly because there
13:04
Speaker 2: are new programs that have you've been that have come
13:08
Speaker 2: out that accelerate these things significantly. Uh. And so I
13:14
Speaker 2: think everyone in every agency as well as consultants are
13:16
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, how is this going to actually manifest?
13:19
Speaker 2: This manifest itself in the real world.
13:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so to two sides there. So you're saying,
13:25
Speaker 1: as I hear it, you're having an agency and I
13:28
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago, I had another or had
13:30
Speaker 1: another gentleman on our podcast in salesby formerly Orange County
13:33
Speaker 1: Public Works Director, when we were talking about some of
13:36
Speaker 1: the challenges with funding coming into agencies and other things.
13:40
Speaker 1: And so, so I hear you here to two challenges David.
13:43
Speaker 1: I feel like you're in the middle.
13:44
Speaker 2: Here.
13:44
Speaker 1: You've got the agencies that don't there's some confusion there,
13:48
Speaker 1: and now you have clients as a project proponent and saying, hey,
13:51
Speaker 1: I've got this project that I want to go forward. David,
13:54
Speaker 1: what's what's the what's the roadmap? And so it's not
13:57
Speaker 1: entirely clear, and that's where you come in as a
14:00
Speaker 1: guide kind of almost like an interpret right between the
14:02
Speaker 1: project proponent and the agencies that they they can It
14:06
Speaker 1: usually is probably more than one agency in your experience, right,
14:08
Speaker 1: You're not just dealing with BLM. It's it's maybe it's
14:11
Speaker 1: the Rsrry Corby Engineers, It's it's other agencies too that
14:15
Speaker 1: are partaking. Correct.
14:16
Speaker 2: It can be, Yeah, it can be sometimes it's just
14:18
Speaker 2: one agency. I mean, obviously, if you're doing an EA,
14:21
Speaker 2: there's a very good chance you'll have to deal with
14:23
Speaker 2: the Fisial Wildlife Service. You may have to deal with
14:25
Speaker 2: the Core. You may be in a situation where you
14:29
Speaker 2: have two lead agencies that are because the project is
14:33
Speaker 2: on you know, BLM land and it's on FIG Service
14:37
Speaker 2: land both, so now you've got to deal with you know,
14:39
Speaker 2: two masters for lack of a better term. Yeah, and yes,
14:42
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the applicants out there, depending
14:47
Speaker 2: on the nature of what they're doing, you know, they
14:49
Speaker 2: hear about these changes that are coming, you know, from
14:53
Speaker 2: the current administration, and they think, oh, it's going to
14:55
Speaker 2: be a lot easier now we can just adopt another agency.
14:59
Speaker 2: Is categorical exclusion, And I'm like, it's really not quite
15:03
Speaker 2: that way. You can't just go and say we're going
15:05
Speaker 2: to use this one. Now, there is a process, process
15:09
Speaker 2: takes time, and that agency has to be the one
15:12
Speaker 2: that do it. You cannot just go and do it yourself.
15:15
Speaker 2: So it's it's educating them about that, or they'll hear
15:18
Speaker 2: we can do an EA in fourteen days, and I'm like, no,
15:22
Speaker 2: there are certain types of projects that can do that,
15:25
Speaker 2: but they have to be at a certain point to
15:28
Speaker 2: be able to do that. I haven't dealt with that
15:29
Speaker 2: personally yet myself, but yeah, they just there's just I
15:33
Speaker 2: think a lot of misinformation out there amongst people who
15:39
Speaker 2: want to do projects of various types because they just
15:42
Speaker 2: don't really know, you know, and it's not their fault,
15:45
Speaker 2: they just don't really understand.
15:48
Speaker 1: Well, you have a way about you, David that I
15:50
Speaker 1: feel like as important as an you're there acting on
15:53
Speaker 1: the behalf of the of the project applicant, project proponent
15:57
Speaker 1: when they come to you as as a consultant. How
16:00
Speaker 1: did you develop those goes? Because you told me you
16:02
Speaker 1: gave us this where you started with the environmental consulting
16:05
Speaker 1: firm here locally, so you're technically doing the environmental work,
16:09
Speaker 1: but now you're stepping into a project management role. Cliant liaison,
16:14
Speaker 1: which is both technical and just like you said, guiding them.
16:17
Speaker 1: How how did you do that and and and successfully
16:21
Speaker 1: navigate your way into that position day? Because I think
16:23
Speaker 1: that what I find a lot in the industry and
16:25
Speaker 1: the folks that I work with, they have great technical people,
16:29
Speaker 1: and now they have to start managing projects and people
16:31
Speaker 1: and stakeholders, and that's just different than just the pure
16:34
Speaker 1: environmental regulations applying we need both. Did you share a
16:38
Speaker 1: little bit about your journey there?
16:43
Speaker 2: So when I was you know, I really learned kind
16:46
Speaker 2: of the the basics of project management and delegation, et
16:49
Speaker 2: cetera when I'm when I was in the Marine Corps,
16:51
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of that. I mean, you you know,
16:53
Speaker 2: if you're a commander, you can't do everything, and you have,
16:57
Speaker 2: you know, a platoon sergeant, you have squad leaders, and
17:01
Speaker 2: you know you need to be able to task them
17:04
Speaker 2: with doing specific things because you cannot do at all.
17:08
Speaker 2: And so that was something that I learned very quickly
17:11
Speaker 2: that you know you're gonna fail if you try to
17:13
Speaker 2: do it all yourself. So you have to develop your team,
17:19
Speaker 2: figure out what they're good at and what they're not
17:21
Speaker 2: good at, and then give them things to do. That
17:24
Speaker 2: they can be successful at while you're trying to help
17:28
Speaker 2: them get better at the things are that they are
17:29
Speaker 2: not successful at. And that goes all the way up.
17:32
Speaker 2: So when you are in the Marine Corps and you're
17:34
Speaker 2: in an infantry company, you have a company commander who
17:37
Speaker 2: is looking at you and delegating things down to you
17:40
Speaker 2: and also looking at you going Okay, mcintarr's good at this,
17:42
Speaker 2: but he needs some work on this. So I'm going
17:45
Speaker 2: to give him this to do so because I know
17:47
Speaker 2: he can get moving on it and be successful. But
17:50
Speaker 2: on the side, I'm going to be working on him
17:52
Speaker 2: on these areas where he's weak and try to help
17:54
Speaker 2: him get make those areas stronger. And so that's transfers over,
17:59
Speaker 2: you know, very nicely into the civilian side and into
18:03
Speaker 2: business where you are managing projects, and it really becomes
18:09
Speaker 2: to me, I think the fundamental thing is really understanding
18:12
Speaker 2: your priorities and really understanding, Okay, this is this is
18:17
Speaker 2: going to get done. This is going to get done.
18:18
Speaker 2: What's got to get done first, What it's going to
18:21
Speaker 2: take the most resources. What do I need to jump
18:26
Speaker 2: on today and get the ball rolling today, even though
18:30
Speaker 2: it's it's not due for a while. If I don't
18:33
Speaker 2: get the ball rolling today, it's going to be almost
18:37
Speaker 2: impossible to get the ball rolling in a month in
18:39
Speaker 2: time to get that done. Yes, I'm going to get
18:41
Speaker 2: the ball rolling today on this and once that ball
18:43
Speaker 2: is rolling now I can go over to here and
18:46
Speaker 2: look at this shorter term project and I can start
18:49
Speaker 2: working on that. And that was just it was a
18:52
Speaker 2: It was I you know, I've taken some project management classes.
18:55
Speaker 2: I've had some you know, in house project management training.
18:58
Speaker 2: I had other people, you know, who were mentors that
19:02
Speaker 2: really worked a lot to show me how to do that,
19:06
Speaker 2: and that was really kind of it in a nutshell
19:10
Speaker 2: coming over to just doing a mac entire environmental you know,
19:15
Speaker 2: the biggest thing is that I'm a single person, single entity.
19:20
Speaker 2: I have subcontractors and these are people that I have
19:23
Speaker 2: worked with for a long time. I knew from the past,
19:26
Speaker 2: like you like yourself, So there are people that I've
19:29
Speaker 2: had a good relationship with. And again I know what
19:31
Speaker 2: they're good at, I know what they're not as good at,
19:34
Speaker 2: and so I'm gonna steer work to them that I'm
19:37
Speaker 2: all right, we can be successful with this, and then
19:39
Speaker 2: I need to find someone else to to work on this,
19:42
Speaker 2: or I need to do it myself or whatever. I don't.
19:46
Speaker 2: There's only a handful of projects that I do entirely
19:49
Speaker 2: by myself. I almost always have at least one person
19:53
Speaker 2: or more. You know, who I am relying on, because hey,
19:56
Speaker 2: you're the biologist, so I need you to do all
19:59
Speaker 2: the biol work, and we're going to talk about it
20:01
Speaker 2: a lot so that I am up to speed on
20:03
Speaker 2: what you're doing and why you think you know this
20:06
Speaker 2: is this way. But ultimately, you're the biologist, and I've
20:10
Speaker 2: brought you on board because I trust that you know
20:13
Speaker 2: what you're doing, or if you don't, you're going to say, okay,
20:17
Speaker 2: I I we got to I'm not really sure how
20:20
Speaker 2: to handle all right, great, let's talk, you know. So
20:24
Speaker 2: it's communication, you know, it's communication and not being afraid
20:29
Speaker 2: to understand that, hey, this is more than I can
20:33
Speaker 2: take on, or I'm faced with something I'm not really
20:37
Speaker 2: sure how to deal with, and having a network of
20:40
Speaker 2: people who you can go to and say, have you
20:43
Speaker 2: ever seen anything like this? And then they go, yes,
20:45
Speaker 2: this is how you need to handle this. That's really
20:49
Speaker 2: the key thing.
20:50
Speaker 1: Well, there's a number of things you said in there
20:53
Speaker 1: were important. I think, David, what I hopefully people here
20:56
Speaker 1: having run MAC and Time Environmental for years now, and
21:00
Speaker 1: is you're listening in that David said this that and
21:04
Speaker 1: I feel the same way. We're not experts in all things,
21:06
Speaker 1: and we can't be all things to everybody. And so
21:09
Speaker 1: it's understanding where your strength is, like you said, David,
21:11
Speaker 1: and developing that Tina, you've developed a great network of
21:15
Speaker 1: like you said, number of areas. Because when we talk
21:17
Speaker 1: about you know, NIPA, the environmental world, and you and
21:22
Speaker 1: I know this. Maybe if you're listening, you're like, oh,
21:24
Speaker 1: all environmentals will say no, there's a whole myriad of
21:26
Speaker 1: different areas under environmental. So if you're not in this
21:30
Speaker 1: working in the space, just hear me. Just but if
21:32
Speaker 1: just usus this. If you're a contractor working on a house, right,
21:35
Speaker 1: you have all different people that are coming in that
21:37
Speaker 1: you need to have relationships with somebody that's electrical, somebody
21:40
Speaker 1: is plumbing, somebody that is framing. So understanding that if
21:43
Speaker 1: you try to do all these things, you're not going
21:45
Speaker 1: to be successful in business. And what David is here
21:47
Speaker 1: and I wanted to have him on here, is that
21:49
Speaker 1: you as a business owner or even a leader. You
21:52
Speaker 1: need to be developing those relationships with each other. And
21:55
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to do it here because we
21:57
Speaker 1: and I collaborate, and I am introduced David to other
21:59
Speaker 1: clients I have where they can work collaborate together, because that,
22:04
Speaker 1: to me is a differentiator of a successful company versus
22:08
Speaker 1: one that isn't. And I feel like your David, you
22:11
Speaker 1: do that collaboration both with your subcontractors, but also with
22:14
Speaker 1: like you said, we're talked about multiple stakeholders, perhaps different agencies,
22:18
Speaker 1: but even the public too. Right, you're dealing with the
22:19
Speaker 1: public input, Like, how do you relate with them? Right?
22:22
Speaker 1: How do you, you know, build that facilitation. That's a whole
22:26
Speaker 1: nother element, right, David.
22:27
Speaker 2: Yes, it is, it is. It is, yes, And there's
22:30
Speaker 2: and there are organizations that there are companies that specialize
22:34
Speaker 2: in just publication, public outreach, public engagement. And there's times
22:41
Speaker 2: when you know you have to have that. It's because
22:44
Speaker 2: the nature of your project and controversy or whatever. There's
22:48
Speaker 2: times when you need to go out to a firm
22:50
Speaker 2: like that and say, Okay, I know enough to know
22:52
Speaker 2: that I need you. I know that I can't really
22:55
Speaker 2: I can't do the best job you can. So I
22:58
Speaker 2: need you to come on board and let's work on
23:01
Speaker 2: this this together because this is your strong suit. It's
23:05
Speaker 2: not I'm not strong enough. So I want you to
23:08
Speaker 2: come in. And obviously, again we're gonna be talking a lot.
23:11
Speaker 2: I'm not just gonna blindly turn it over to you
23:13
Speaker 2: and say, all right, that's off my plate. We're gonna
23:16
Speaker 2: be engaged through the whole process. But I'm really leaning
23:20
Speaker 2: on you for your expertise.
23:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, David, Well, what would you say, because you
23:25
Speaker 1: work with a lot of different firms, a lot of
23:28
Speaker 1: subcontractors and prime what would you say, you know, if
23:32
Speaker 1: you're a leader in the a let's AEC space where
23:35
Speaker 1: they might be getting it wrong or approaching I think
23:37
Speaker 1: one of them I heard Loud and Clay was they're
23:39
Speaker 1: waiting too long to get started. Like you're being proactive
23:41
Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, this is gonna this is the
23:43
Speaker 1: lead time. If you have somebody that's never done this before,
23:45
Speaker 1: they might be Take's that one to me? Just jumped
23:48
Speaker 1: out and be like, oh man, I waited too long
23:50
Speaker 1: to get started on this and now I'm screwed. I'm
23:52
Speaker 1: like way behind it. But I didn't know that. What
23:55
Speaker 1: other mistakes do you see when you know they're doing
23:58
Speaker 1: teaming or bringing on a partner that you know they're
24:02
Speaker 1: they're missing the mark that you're seeing, David, I.
24:04
Speaker 2: Think the biggest thing that I see is is not communicating.
24:09
Speaker 2: So I think the having team members that are in
24:14
Speaker 2: the dark about what's going on, you know, and and granted,
24:17
Speaker 2: their their peace might be very discreet, but I think
24:23
Speaker 2: that the more they are engaged on the larger project
24:28
Speaker 2: and where we are in the larger project, I think
24:31
Speaker 2: that they can help you much more so than they
24:34
Speaker 2: could if you were just kind of keeping them under
24:38
Speaker 2: like a mushroom and keeping them in the dark and
24:39
Speaker 2: saying I just need this. They're going to give you that.
24:43
Speaker 2: But maybe if they knew a little bit more, they
24:45
Speaker 2: they have experience, they might be able to say, Okay,
24:49
Speaker 2: you do need this, but but you also need this
24:50
Speaker 2: other thing that comes along with this, And you don't
24:52
Speaker 2: really realize that, but I do because I've been doing
24:55
Speaker 2: this for a long time. So I'm going to give
24:57
Speaker 2: this to you also because you didn't know you needed it,
25:00
Speaker 2: but you do, right, that can help you that that
25:03
Speaker 2: can save you, you know, from from making a foolish mistake.
25:08
Speaker 2: So I think communication really is fundamental and just communicating
25:12
Speaker 2: you know clear, I mean, I know this is all
25:14
Speaker 2: not this is not rocket science. No, but you're hitting
25:18
Speaker 2: people don't always do it, and that is just let's
25:21
Speaker 2: communicate about you know, as much as we can without
25:24
Speaker 2: making it onerous. This is what we're doing. This is
25:29
Speaker 2: you know where we are, and this is what I
25:30
Speaker 2: need from you.
25:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, David, do you see this. I've
25:35
Speaker 1: seen this least. I don't want to see what your
25:37
Speaker 1: trends are. Do you see your company, especially when they're
25:39
Speaker 1: going from proing just purely doing the technical work and
25:43
Speaker 1: they have to coordinate with you so there as actual
25:45
Speaker 1: project management. There is coordination that's necessary. And what I
25:49
Speaker 1: hear you saying, I'm extrapolating this, but what I'm hearing
25:53
Speaker 1: you saying in the communication and not spending the time
25:55
Speaker 1: to inform them, to guide them, which takes time and
25:58
Speaker 1: energy write to get them up to speed. They're not
26:02
Speaker 1: planning or incorporating enough project management time and logistics. They're
26:06
Speaker 1: trying to cut and just I don't know, trying to
26:09
Speaker 1: little do And I understand we got a sensitive to
26:11
Speaker 1: costs and things like that, but we also have to
26:13
Speaker 1: plan appropriately appropriate resources to get the job done.
26:17
Speaker 2: Yes, I think a problem that I see often is
26:21
Speaker 2: that they put someone in charge of something who are
26:26
Speaker 2: technically knowledgeable, but they just don't have They can't they
26:30
Speaker 2: don't know what they don't know, for lack of a
26:32
Speaker 2: better term, So they you know, I like to think
26:34
Speaker 2: that I have a pretty good idea of what I
26:37
Speaker 2: don't know, and I realize that I'm going to need
26:40
Speaker 2: to go figure that out. There are often, unfortunately, people
26:44
Speaker 2: put into positions. You know, this is on this is
26:48
Speaker 2: other consultants, this is on the government side, or whatever,
26:51
Speaker 2: it's all of it, and they just don't know that
26:55
Speaker 2: there's this other stuff out here that they need to
26:58
Speaker 2: be aware of and they need to get themselves up
27:00
Speaker 2: to speed on and so that it just goes on.
27:03
Speaker 2: They're going on just fine, thinking they're fine and not
27:06
Speaker 2: realizing that this is gonna you know, this freight train
27:08
Speaker 2: is coming at them and they're not aware they need
27:11
Speaker 2: to be looking for the lights of the freight trains
27:13
Speaker 2: so they can get across the tracks a sign. Yes,
27:15
Speaker 2: for lack of better analogy.
27:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a great analogy. David and that's
27:20
Speaker 1: why like getting somebody like in your team, even though,
27:23
Speaker 1: like you said, because I've worked with you in in
27:25
Speaker 1: the case of let's just use the biology discussion and
27:28
Speaker 1: being that much, you know, like saying like, hey, I
27:30
Speaker 1: know the biology, but you know the BLM component of
27:32
Speaker 1: like what it takes and what's going to be They
27:34
Speaker 1: might be looking at and saying informed, I'm like, have
27:36
Speaker 1: you thought about this? Have you considered this? This survey
27:40
Speaker 1: might be required, or this this permit might be required,
27:45
Speaker 1: Not that you're you know, not that you're the Like
27:46
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not playing. I'm not being the expert,
27:48
Speaker 1: meaning the biologist. But I can say here's the things
27:51
Speaker 1: I've seen, Here's the things you should be considering or
27:53
Speaker 1: thinking about when dealing with let's say this agency or
27:56
Speaker 1: a landowner or stakeholder, right, David as on that and
28:01
Speaker 1: ask those questions.
28:03
Speaker 2: So if I'm if an applicant comes to me in
28:05
Speaker 2: March and says I want to build a solar farm
28:10
Speaker 2: in Riverside County and I want to be through the
28:14
Speaker 2: environmental permitting process a year from now or in fourteen months,
28:19
Speaker 2: you know the first thing I'm going to say is
28:21
Speaker 2: are you ready to go do you have a biologist
28:23
Speaker 2: who's ready to go to the field next month, because
28:27
Speaker 2: your window for doing these biological surveys is super narrow,
28:31
Speaker 2: and you need to have someone otherwise you're going to
28:33
Speaker 2: be waiting for a year and we're not going to
28:35
Speaker 2: be able to finish this for a year, right because
28:39
Speaker 2: that window has passed and no one is going to
28:41
Speaker 2: take the results of whatever you find when you go
28:45
Speaker 2: out in August. That's the kind of stuff that you
28:50
Speaker 2: need to be thinking about and identifying upfront, Like, Hey,
28:54
Speaker 2: if you're okay, waiting for a year to do this,
28:56
Speaker 2: that's fine, But if you want to be done a
28:58
Speaker 2: year from now. And I have this conversation a lot
29:01
Speaker 2: with my biologist who works as a subcontractor to me,
29:03
Speaker 2: and she's like, Okay, I need to get out there
29:07
Speaker 2: in the next month in order to do this. We
29:09
Speaker 2: need to get out there in the next month. Otherwise
29:10
Speaker 2: this is gonna have to go out a year from now.
29:13
Speaker 2: And so I'm communicating that to my clients and saying, Okay,
29:16
Speaker 2: here's here's the timeline. If you want to really do this,
29:19
Speaker 2: then we have to be going this fast. You know,
29:22
Speaker 2: are you are you ready to go that fast? Yeah,
29:26
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah.
29:27
Speaker 1: Well, and I would I would say, David, well, another
29:32
Speaker 1: observation is you as you shared that insight, is that
29:36
Speaker 1: if you're if you have a project or an initiative,
29:39
Speaker 1: whatever that might be environmental otherwise to your point, David,
29:43
Speaker 1: if you're doing it in a vacuum, if you're just
29:45
Speaker 1: do a gun on your own, and you're saying, I'm
29:46
Speaker 1: going to figure this out, I'm gonna build it up,
29:48
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get all this figured out. How many times, David,
29:50
Speaker 1: do you have somebody that's been doing a lot of
29:52
Speaker 1: work on the back end internally and they've come to you, David,
29:55
Speaker 1: and they say, Okay, here's where i'm out. And you're like,
29:57
Speaker 1: I could have saved you a whole lot more time
29:59
Speaker 1: and energy, and you spend a lot of time and money.
30:01
Speaker 1: You would have just come to me a year ago
30:04
Speaker 1: and you've got your project. But they were trying to
30:05
Speaker 1: do it all by themselves, thinking they're saving money right,
30:10
Speaker 1: trying to do it internally, keeping it and waiting and
30:12
Speaker 1: delaying when they could actually have engaged somebody like yourself
30:17
Speaker 1: and actually saved money and gone faster.
30:21
Speaker 2: There's an old expression that all of us are smarter
30:23
Speaker 2: than some of us, and that's a true expression. So
30:28
Speaker 2: I think the more people that you can get involved
30:32
Speaker 2: that that you know are of the right background, then yeah,
30:37
Speaker 2: you're you're going to save money in the long run
30:39
Speaker 2: because you aren't going to be having to redo all
30:43
Speaker 2: the work. All the time and energy that you expended
30:45
Speaker 2: trying to save money is now being redone because you
30:47
Speaker 2: didn't do it right.
30:48
Speaker 1: M M.
30:49
Speaker 2: So it's very hard, you know, it's very You can
30:51
Speaker 2: do projects quickly, you can do them well, and you
30:55
Speaker 2: can do them cheaply, but you cannot do all three.
30:58
Speaker 2: You can only do two of the three. So if
31:00
Speaker 2: you want to do something well and if you want
31:02
Speaker 2: to do it fast, it's not going to be cheap.
31:05
Speaker 2: If you want to do something well and cheap, it's
31:07
Speaker 2: going to take a long time. It's going to take
31:09
Speaker 2: a lot longer time. School relegated school and they're not able.
31:15
Speaker 2: You can't sit all three legs on at the same time.
31:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to consider that, and that's why I
31:20
Speaker 1: love having you on the podcast, David, because you do.
31:23
Speaker 1: You may not be the cheapest, but you're definitely going
31:25
Speaker 1: to be done well and you're going to be able
31:27
Speaker 1: to move it along, you know, and and I think ultimately,
31:31
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, our time is our
31:33
Speaker 1: most valuable. You know, we don't get it. We can't
31:35
Speaker 1: make more time, okay, yes, so it's like, how do
31:38
Speaker 1: we do this? And so we're not going and redoing work,
31:41
Speaker 1: redoing it. I mean, I'm sure you've done this, David.
31:44
Speaker 1: I know I have gotten somebody else come to you
31:46
Speaker 1: while I was working with this consultant and they didn't
31:48
Speaker 1: get it done right, you know, right, speak of that
31:51
Speaker 1: a little bit too.
31:52
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean you will see that fairly often, you know,
31:56
Speaker 2: where someone who's hired someone who's who's over promised and underdelivered.
32:02
Speaker 2: And sometimes, to be fair, sometimes it's the expectation the
32:05
Speaker 2: client has that they don't I mean, they're whoever they
32:10
Speaker 2: hired was trying to meet their expectation, but it was
32:15
Speaker 2: just not realistic. And maybe whoever they hired did not
32:18
Speaker 2: want to say that to them, you know, they did
32:20
Speaker 2: not they were afraid that that might turn the client off.
32:24
Speaker 2: But I think you need to be frank with people
32:26
Speaker 2: about what you can and what you cannot do and
32:29
Speaker 2: let them know that this is just not it's not possible.
32:34
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. To tell you that, but it's not or
32:36
Speaker 2: it's not. It's possible, but it's going to be very expensive.
32:39
Speaker 2: It's going to be a lot more expensive than what
32:41
Speaker 2: you have told me you have in your budget. So
32:44
Speaker 2: what can we do about that? Maybe there's not much
32:47
Speaker 2: we can do about it, but probably there's something we
32:50
Speaker 2: can do about it to make things go better. Again,
32:53
Speaker 2: it's just communication. And you're right. My wife looks at
32:57
Speaker 2: me all the time and says, I know you can
32:58
Speaker 2: pant that room, but it would just be so much
33:02
Speaker 2: less anguish and so much faster if we just hired
33:05
Speaker 2: someone who does this for a living.
33:06
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, And absolutely yeah, And so just being aware
33:11
Speaker 1: of that, that's why I want to have you on
33:12
Speaker 1: the podcast. So as you're listening to this, whether you're
33:15
Speaker 1: in the environmental space or not, look to consultants or
33:18
Speaker 1: coaches like myself to help you go faster. It's worth
33:20
Speaker 1: the investment overall. Again, you have to justify it, but
33:23
Speaker 1: I believe you know you're bringing real value and influence
33:26
Speaker 1: what I found. And i'd love to get your thoughts
33:28
Speaker 1: on this, David is. I love the analogy of the
33:30
Speaker 1: three legated stool. Oftentimes what I find is there's a
33:34
Speaker 1: danger if trying to go on the cheap and saying
33:39
Speaker 1: trying to do it, I know we have to be
33:41
Speaker 1: cost conscious, don't get me wrong there, but where if
33:44
Speaker 1: we go people are driven to the low price. And
33:47
Speaker 1: I find that people are driven to the low price
33:49
Speaker 1: and they if you suck into that, it's sometimes it
33:53
Speaker 1: seems like it's never ending, like there's never enough, Like
33:55
Speaker 1: if you try to like satisfy them on price only,
33:58
Speaker 1: like that's the main driver. Are like wanting to extract
34:01
Speaker 1: more versus people that you have high value or they
34:03
Speaker 1: appreciate the time, they're not so much micromanaging and they
34:06
Speaker 1: trust your expertise as you know, as that consultant. What's
34:10
Speaker 1: your experience there, David, working with clients.
34:14
Speaker 2: I have. I tried it too, Frankly, I try to
34:17
Speaker 2: steer away from clients who are trying to do everything
34:21
Speaker 2: on the cheap. And I was having a conversation earlier
34:26
Speaker 2: your day with a lady who is going from who's transitioning,
34:32
Speaker 2: who wants to transition from working for the federal government
34:34
Speaker 2: to the private sector, And so I had a previous
34:37
Speaker 2: conversation because she had only worked in the government, and
34:40
Speaker 2: I was trying to explain to her concepts like okay,
34:43
Speaker 2: and consulting, there's this thing called bilability, yep, And you
34:48
Speaker 2: are going to be expected to be charging x percent
34:51
Speaker 2: of your time to a project that they can then
34:54
Speaker 2: charge the client for your time. And some companies are
34:58
Speaker 2: more liberal with that, are not, and some companies are.
35:04
Speaker 2: If you go a certain period and you don't meet
35:06
Speaker 2: your goal, you're going to have a conversation with your boss,
35:09
Speaker 2: and then if you continue and you don't meet your goal,
35:12
Speaker 2: they are probably going to let you go because you're
35:14
Speaker 2: not making enough money for them. And that's something that's
35:18
Speaker 2: foreign to people who start in government and never have
35:21
Speaker 2: worked in consulting. I mean, that's the facts you Obviously,
35:25
Speaker 2: you and I both have gone from the private side
35:28
Speaker 2: to the government side and dow that and I've had
35:31
Speaker 2: when I've worked for the government, people would come to
35:33
Speaker 2: me with proposals and say, why is this like this?
35:36
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to explain to them, because you have
35:40
Speaker 2: set a threshold of how much you're willing to pay
35:42
Speaker 2: for this, they can only give you this many hours
35:45
Speaker 2: towards that task. If that doesn't work for you, then
35:50
Speaker 2: you either need to go find some more money, or
35:52
Speaker 2: you can't do this project, or you need to accept
35:54
Speaker 2: the fact that this result might not be what you
35:56
Speaker 2: want it to be. But that's how consultants work. They
36:01
Speaker 2: don't have You're not giving them an endless pot of money.
36:04
Speaker 2: So again, go forever on this that you're only giving
36:08
Speaker 2: them twenty dollars worth of of this.
36:11
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's.
36:13
Speaker 2: You know, and that's I just try to I try
36:17
Speaker 2: to steer away from people who just are wanting to
36:20
Speaker 2: to penny pinch all the way through, because in the end,
36:24
Speaker 2: it's just gonna be frustrating for all of us. It's
36:26
Speaker 2: gonna be frustrating for me, it's gonna be frustrating for them.
36:30
Speaker 2: And I would rather, you know, work with clients who
36:34
Speaker 2: understand that, hey, this is I want to do this,
36:36
Speaker 2: and it's gonna cost that and I'm willing to pay
36:39
Speaker 2: to get to the finish line. And I realized that
36:45
Speaker 2: price for that. He's not overcharging me, he's not trying
36:49
Speaker 2: to builk me, but he's out. But you know, I'm
36:52
Speaker 2: gonna get the results I want and it's gonna cost
36:54
Speaker 2: me this much money to do it your time. And
36:56
Speaker 2: I've said this to others I've talked said this to
37:00
Speaker 2: college students who go to work or try to get
37:02
Speaker 2: internships or whatever. Your time is valuable. You don't need
37:07
Speaker 2: to work for free for somebody unless this internship gives
37:10
Speaker 2: you some kind of access or something. You should not
37:14
Speaker 2: be working for people for free. Your time is valuable,
37:18
Speaker 2: it's worthwhile, and you know you don't need to be
37:23
Speaker 2: giving away your time unless you just decide to volunteer.
37:25
Speaker 2: I mean, we all volunt are willing to give her
37:28
Speaker 2: time to that's entirely different. But if you're were and
37:32
Speaker 2: I've said this to my kids, you know, I'm like,
37:36
Speaker 2: we need to make money. Your karate teacher is running
37:39
Speaker 2: a business. He needs to He's getting paid for this
37:42
Speaker 2: and that's fine. That is okay, And I am happy
37:45
Speaker 2: to pay him what he's asking for you to take
37:48
Speaker 2: karate lessons. But he's not doing it for free. Maybe
37:51
Speaker 2: when he retires he'll do it for free, but he's
37:54
Speaker 2: going to feed himself. This is his business, and that's fine,
37:57
Speaker 2: that's fair. Fair, yes, So I try to say away
38:00
Speaker 2: from people who just don't who just want everything for nothing.
38:04
Speaker 2: And there are some people out there, are some applicants
38:07
Speaker 2: out there that are like.
38:08
Speaker 1: That yeah, and I agree with you, David one hundred percent.
38:11
Speaker 1: I hope everyoney hears this because what happens if you
38:13
Speaker 1: get sucked in this? And I did this even though
38:15
Speaker 1: as a business owner, even as a project manager, I've
38:17
Speaker 1: made the mistake of costing a proposal, underpricing it too low,
38:22
Speaker 1: hoping I'll get work or you know, and it never
38:24
Speaker 1: doesn't work. I never seen it honestly successful where you
38:28
Speaker 1: you if they just want to get the one example,
38:31
Speaker 1: you know, they extract whatever they can from you. It's
38:33
Speaker 1: very transactional and it's not building long term relationships. But
38:37
Speaker 1: I've seen you do. You've built long term relationships with agencies, clients.
38:40
Speaker 1: They come back to you time after time because they
38:43
Speaker 1: know you're looking after their best interests and they're like, hey,
38:45
Speaker 1: we're both at the end of the day, we both win, right,
38:48
Speaker 1: they win, You win businesses.
38:49
Speaker 2: The relationship build. Consulting is relationship. It's completely based on relationships.
38:56
Speaker 2: If you say to the Fish and Wildline Service, I
38:59
Speaker 2: went out and surveyed this area and I didn't see
39:02
Speaker 2: any yellow tailed skippers, and they know you. They're going
39:05
Speaker 2: to go, Okay, we're good. We don't need to We're
39:08
Speaker 2: going to take you at face value because we know
39:10
Speaker 2: your work and we trust you.
39:12
Speaker 1: Yep.
39:12
Speaker 2: You know, other people they might go, well, we might
39:15
Speaker 2: have to go out there and look at ourselves because
39:16
Speaker 2: we think you missed something, or they might come to
39:18
Speaker 2: you and say are you sure because we thought they
39:20
Speaker 2: were here, and you would then say, well, I went
39:22
Speaker 2: and looked, and the habitat has changed from when you
39:25
Speaker 2: went out there seven years ago, and that plan is
39:28
Speaker 2: no longer there. It's it's you know, and now they're
39:31
Speaker 2: and now they're like, okay.
39:33
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Yeah, building that trust is so so important,
39:37
Speaker 1: like you said, David, and I think once you build
39:38
Speaker 1: that trust over time, what I found with clients is
39:41
Speaker 1: it gives you some flexibility in a good way, meaning, hey, look,
39:45
Speaker 1: we both have challenges some and we try to make
39:48
Speaker 1: sure we address all the assumptions and understandings right, but
39:50
Speaker 1: there's things that we can't account for at times, and
39:52
Speaker 1: so it's like when that comes up and you're like,
39:55
Speaker 1: inevitably and I've had to do change orders. I'm sure
39:57
Speaker 1: you have to. Hey, look we didn't envision this happening.
40:00
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to pull one over on you. We
40:01
Speaker 1: both a relationship of the trust. This is what's required situation.
40:05
Speaker 1: You know, conditions have changed than what we originally identified.
40:09
Speaker 1: And then it's not oh, you're trying to get me,
40:11
Speaker 1: it's just this is the reality that we're faced with.
40:14
Speaker 2: Right Exactly. I have a project where the biologists found
40:18
Speaker 2: Mesa Ferdy cactus on the site and she's said, we
40:23
Speaker 2: found macerforty cactuses. They're not going to be happy about this,
40:26
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's not our problem though. Our job
40:29
Speaker 2: was to go out and find them or not or
40:32
Speaker 2: determine they're not there. And now that we found them,
40:34
Speaker 2: now we need to go engage the client and the
40:38
Speaker 2: agency about what are we going to do to get
40:41
Speaker 2: their project developed but mitigate for any potential impacts. And
40:47
Speaker 2: because you know, the biologist has a good relationship with
40:51
Speaker 2: the agency biologist, they're willing and she says, hey, what
40:55
Speaker 2: if we did this, they're much more willing to go, Yeah,
40:59
Speaker 2: I think that would be a good idea. And of
41:00
Speaker 2: course the client is not saying a whole lot. They're
41:02
Speaker 2: just kind of they're like, client, are you willing to
41:04
Speaker 2: do this? And they're like, yeah, we'll do that sure,
41:07
Speaker 2: because to them that's a that's a small price to
41:10
Speaker 2: pay as opposed to having to reroute their project completely.
41:14
Speaker 2: They're much more well. They're like, we need to do
41:16
Speaker 2: this during this time of the year. Will Yeah, we
41:18
Speaker 2: can do that. That's so much easier than you know,
41:21
Speaker 2: having to do you know, something more severe. And it again,
41:25
Speaker 2: it all comes down to that relationship that people have
41:28
Speaker 2: with one another and the trust that's developed.
41:31
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so, it's it's it's it's marrying the technical
41:36
Speaker 1: skills that you need for whatever the role you have
41:38
Speaker 1: with Like you said earlier, I think loud and clear communication,
41:42
Speaker 1: and I realized that that is a break down. It's
41:45
Speaker 1: one of the actually things I even do have a
41:46
Speaker 1: whole communication go to assessment. I help people in this area
41:49
Speaker 1: because what I found it to your point is if
41:52
Speaker 1: we don't understand this about we can undermine our influence.
41:56
Speaker 1: And that's where we don't want to be undermining our influencer. Fact,
42:00
Speaker 1: we're actually having the opposite effect. Right, So you may
42:03
Speaker 1: be right, but the way you're presenting or communicating it
42:06
Speaker 1: is actually doing more damage.
42:08
Speaker 2: Right Yes, yes, definitely, yes, definitely, absolutely so.
42:13
Speaker 1: Having somebody like you, David, to help guide them in
42:16
Speaker 1: the messaging and how to communicate this and go about
42:19
Speaker 1: it right.
42:20
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's you know when you talk about public
42:23
Speaker 2: outreach and public engagement. I was looking we were doing
42:27
Speaker 2: something a couple of days ago when we were looking
42:29
Speaker 2: at slides for a public meeting and they had, you know,
42:32
Speaker 2: for the for a visual of the construction aspect of
42:36
Speaker 2: the project, the head guy out there jack cammering, and
42:38
Speaker 2: I was like, you got to get rid of that picture.
42:40
Speaker 2: A there's not going to be any jackhammering, we both
42:43
Speaker 2: know that. Or there's going to be jackhammering for four
42:46
Speaker 2: hours and then there's not any more jack hammering at all.
42:49
Speaker 2: But if you put that picture out there, that's all
42:51
Speaker 2: the public is going to see is there's going to
42:53
Speaker 2: be forty days of jack cammering. So let's just get
42:56
Speaker 2: rid of that picture because it's conveying the wrong message.
42:58
Speaker 2: And we can say there's gonna be a brief period
43:00
Speaker 2: half a day we're gonna jackhammer of the parking lot.
43:03
Speaker 2: Then we're gonna bring in this other machine which is
43:05
Speaker 2: pretty quiet, and we're gonna you know, hydraulic directional drill
43:10
Speaker 2: underneath to where we want to go, and you're not
43:12
Speaker 2: gonna see anything but that weird looking machine and it's
43:15
Speaker 2: not gonna make a lot of noise and then it's
43:17
Speaker 2: gonna go away. But the jackhammering they're you know you, Yeah,
43:22
Speaker 2: you just have to know what trick people see something
43:26
Speaker 2: and that's what then they can't see, they can't unsee it,
43:29
Speaker 2: and that's all they see. So yeah, I mean, yeah,
43:32
Speaker 2: well there's gonna be some but I don't think you
43:33
Speaker 2: don't need to make that the focal point.
43:35
Speaker 1: Right right, and and again if you're not aware of
43:39
Speaker 1: these things, and and it's something learning, I like call
43:41
Speaker 1: you said earlier, David, you had a mentor like on
43:44
Speaker 1: you know, I think you said Francisco on recreation or
43:46
Speaker 1: whatever the area. Actually get people to help you right
43:49
Speaker 1: in game interns pulling them in their subcontractors, learn from them,
43:53
Speaker 1: because I've I've seen this made the mistake where, for example,
43:56
Speaker 1: we were on a big project and a biologist of
43:59
Speaker 1: us out there they said, kind of off the cuff,
44:03
Speaker 1: why I think I saw this federally listed bird specie okay,
44:08
Speaker 1: And and there was a regulator oversight person there and
44:10
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my goodness, did you Well they just
44:13
Speaker 1: were speculated. Didn't realize by saying that they're going to
44:15
Speaker 1: set up all these so you understand like how you
44:19
Speaker 1: like you said earlier, how you're presenting that message, how
44:21
Speaker 1: that can have a ripple effect, you know, negatively if
44:25
Speaker 1: you're not careful, and how then all and then like
44:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot of energy now that you weren't going
44:31
Speaker 1: to have to spend. Now you have just been a
44:32
Speaker 1: lot more energy following up communicating right that you weren't anticipating. Yeah,
44:36
Speaker 1: you know that costs money.
44:38
Speaker 2: You go to the client, you say, I found my
44:40
Speaker 2: severty cactuses. We need to have a meeting with the
44:44
Speaker 2: agency and with you and let's figure out. Let's put
44:47
Speaker 2: our heads together, because we know now from past experience.
44:51
Speaker 2: You know, I know what says this in the rags,
44:53
Speaker 2: But they are the agency. Sometimes they regulators willing to
44:57
Speaker 2: let things go a little bit, like hey, if you
45:00
Speaker 2: will make your area of disturbance ten feet instead of
45:03
Speaker 2: fifty feet, I'm not as concerned about that. If you're
45:07
Speaker 2: willing to do that. And of course the applicant is like, yes,
45:09
Speaker 2: I can do that. I will be glad to keep
45:11
Speaker 2: everybody in a ten foot width and we won't go
45:13
Speaker 2: outside that for this, you know, five hundred foot stretch yes,
45:18
Speaker 2: because again that's so much less painful than having to
45:22
Speaker 2: go over here and do it and you know, have
45:24
Speaker 2: to just you know, add a lot more money to
45:28
Speaker 2: things than they have to.
45:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know we're getting them in the podcast. I
45:33
Speaker 1: definitely could go longer, David, and we're gonna have to
45:35
Speaker 1: be come back because I think we could talk many
45:36
Speaker 1: more stories, you know, but I want I'm hoping here
45:39
Speaker 1: people hear this because David is why I haven't. David
45:43
Speaker 1: here is you know, not only a principal, you know,
45:46
Speaker 1: specialist in underneath an environmental but he is an expert
45:48
Speaker 1: project manager guiding teams and and you know, in complex projects.
45:55
Speaker 1: And what I heard you say, David, it's not about
45:57
Speaker 1: being reacted like you just mentioned. Its about being pro
46:00
Speaker 1: active and confident decisions and supported by leaders. You're you're
46:05
Speaker 1: getting people that are like on board, like hey, we're
46:07
Speaker 1: gonna work together, right, And that's my passion is the
46:11
Speaker 1: people side, Like how do we get these people healthy together,
46:14
Speaker 1: not being you know, fighting amongst each other, but like
46:19
Speaker 1: let's let's work this and not grind it out, but
46:21
Speaker 1: actually feel like we're a team elaborating. There's better way
46:24
Speaker 1: to lead and show up how to get this work.
46:27
Speaker 2: Let's let's give everyone an opportunity to provide input, because
46:31
Speaker 2: they probably have input that is useful to us, and
46:34
Speaker 2: then it's better than our input. And you know, once
46:37
Speaker 2: once you realize that you don't know everything and no
46:39
Speaker 2: one really expects you to know everything, and you're not
46:42
Speaker 2: afraid to take input from someone else, your life gets
46:45
Speaker 2: so much easier. You know, when I had I had
46:48
Speaker 2: a person. We were working on a project and we
46:51
Speaker 2: were kind of struggling, and they said, let's go back
46:54
Speaker 2: to the other project that we were working on, because
46:56
Speaker 2: we know what was working over there. Let's figure out
46:58
Speaker 2: what we're doing right or wrong. And we went back
47:01
Speaker 2: and looked at the other project and it became glaringly obvious. Okay,
47:05
Speaker 2: this this was our mistake over here. Let's go back
47:09
Speaker 2: now that we've seen Okay, yes, this is how it works.
47:11
Speaker 2: Let's go back now we can finish it now that
47:13
Speaker 2: we had the you know, we instead of just banging
47:16
Speaker 2: away and just you know, beating her head in, let's
47:19
Speaker 2: just go back and look at where it worked before
47:21
Speaker 2: and figure out again what we did that was so
47:23
Speaker 2: good over here and how we can transfer to this
47:26
Speaker 2: one and that's what we did, and it made our
47:28
Speaker 2: lives so much easier. It just made things just go
47:32
Speaker 2: so much smoother. Yeah, just because we figured that out.
47:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, we and you owned it. I hear you said, hey,
47:38
Speaker 1: we've figured out there was a problem when I yeh,
47:40
Speaker 1: So now we can go back and fix it. You know,
47:43
Speaker 1: we can. We can improve upon it and just own it.
47:46
Speaker 2: Right, it's not the end of the world. Yep, we
47:49
Speaker 2: just need to go fix the problem. We just need
47:51
Speaker 2: to stake people make. It's not pretending like people don't
47:59
Speaker 2: make mistakes. They make mistakes. And it's like telling kids
48:03
Speaker 2: all the time, you're gonna make a mistake, you just
48:04
Speaker 2: kinda own it. If you own the mistake, you're gonna
48:07
Speaker 2: get a lot more leeway than if you try to
48:09
Speaker 2: pretend you didn't make a mistake. But if you own
48:12
Speaker 2: the mistake, then your client is gonna work with you
48:14
Speaker 2: a lot more. We be much more willing to work
48:16
Speaker 2: with you. You need some more money, okay, you know
48:19
Speaker 2: that's just it's so much easier than trying to pretend like, yeah,
48:22
Speaker 2: I didn't do that, I didn't make a mistake. Everything's perfect,
48:24
Speaker 2: and it's not, especially when it's clearly clear that you
48:27
Speaker 2: made a mistake.
48:28
Speaker 1: Just own it.
48:30
Speaker 2: Own it.
48:31
Speaker 1: So David, as we're as we're wrapping up the podcast,
48:35
Speaker 1: we're going to make sure everybody uh follow a McIntire
48:38
Speaker 1: environmental look at up on environmental dot com. You can
48:42
Speaker 1: check them out. We want to make sure we put
48:43
Speaker 1: the links here. Connect with David on LinkedIn, just like
48:47
Speaker 1: there's not many David McIntire's out there. Mc andentire Environmental
48:49
Speaker 1: is the only one I know of, so go find
48:52
Speaker 1: you know, connect with us. We're on LinkedIn and David again.
48:54
Speaker 1: Follow David, connect with him because he puts up great
48:57
Speaker 1: content you're hearing not just from the environmental side, but
48:59
Speaker 1: just you can see how he's showing up as a
49:01
Speaker 1: project manager, as a business owner, as a principle, because
49:04
Speaker 1: he's wearing different hats, which I so appreciate, and David,
49:07
Speaker 1: you do it very well. And I just want to
49:09
Speaker 1: say thanks for coming on. Any last thoughts you want
49:11
Speaker 1: to share with our listeners as we wrap up the podcast.
49:15
Speaker 2: You know, I think the biggest thing is getting educate
49:19
Speaker 2: yourself on whatever you're doing. Educate yourself to the maximum
49:23
Speaker 2: stint that you can and realize you probably don't know
49:27
Speaker 2: you almost certainly don't know at all. And it never
49:30
Speaker 2: hurts to ask someone else for what they think, what
49:34
Speaker 2: their their perspective is, because they very likely have an
49:39
Speaker 2: angle on something that you did not consider, and it's
49:41
Speaker 2: it's better and you, yes, you should go with your
49:44
Speaker 2: idea because it's probably better than yours, and that's okay.
49:48
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, thank you David for being here. I want
49:52
Speaker 1: to thank everybody for of course following like and subscribe.
50:01
Speaker 1: Leave your comments, we'll make sure that David gets them.
50:03
Speaker 1: If you're interested in being a guest, we continue to
50:05
Speaker 1: have new guests on week after week. Love to have
50:08
Speaker 1: you again, David, Thank you for being here. Come back
50:11
Speaker 1: and listen next time. Everybody, until next time, do well.
50:14
Speaker 1: Thanks