Latest / Honey Badger Radio / X-Space Q & A: Talking About Our Gains: Paul Elam, ItsComplicated, Pearl and More

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X-Space Q & A: Talking About Our Gains: Paul Elam, ItsComplicated, Pearl and More · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: My name is Brian and this is the X space
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Q and a call in hang out. Yell at me
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: if you want to stream so. But I also have
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a topic in case nobody calls in. But before I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: do that, first off, I'm going to ask you guys
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to please like the video and share the video the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: live stream and comment so that you know we can
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: see that, like I can see that you're actually watching
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and you have something to say. If you want to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: send us a message at any point during the show,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: you can go to feed the Badger dot com forward
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: slash just the tip to send a message. We are
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: streaming to the vertical as well as the horizontal. Yes,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the verticals for people who are on their phones if
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you want. So, what I'm going to be talking about
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: today as like what I'm pitching at least, you know,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: is all of the latest developments in the men's right space,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and there have been many and I think that it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: worth bringing up. We do a lot of talking about,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: you know, the problems that everybody's having and how bad
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: everything is and so on. But I try to bring
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit of positivity and I do think that
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: there's not just me, you know, huffing copium. I actually
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: do think that there are good things happening and we
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: are picking up momentum, and I think that I can
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I can demonstrate.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: That if you will allow me to do so.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So there's a few things that are going on in
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the men's the men's right space. And yeah, I'm gonna
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you guys a few minutes to get
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: in here if you are just like arriving right now.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna jump in right away, and let
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: me just make sure that everything is running fine again.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: If you want to jump into the space with me
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and talk, go to x dot com. That's where this is.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: There's a link in the description of this video that
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: will let you go right to it and you'll be
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: able to connect and then, like you know, put up
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: your hand and we'll call on people to speak. So
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Kamala is the front runner for the DEMS. Is that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: good or bad? I think it's great because nobody likes her.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: She's basically like the best, the best. I guess they
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: think she's the best chance they have. Maybe they haven't
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: learned anything, and that's fine.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: By me.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I think that it just means we're just gonna probably
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: just keep winning. But anyway, so let me just give
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you guys a little bit more time to get in.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I don't think Alison would like me to talk about
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: politics on the show, so I'm not gonna be talking
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: about that, although you know, what we do is inherently political,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: but that's a story for another time.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Welcome, everybody. Welcome, Derek Workman, Richard Bierre.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: If anybody's watching over on Rumble, I can see that
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: there's a few people on Rumble as well, say something,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: so I know you're there. I know that I'm not Alison,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and that doesn't like necessarily get people to like jump
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: in and want to talk, but you know, help me out.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So if you can, if you can, and let's see
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and again, yeah, you can join the call and just
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: talk to me directly by going to x dot com.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: The link is in the description. Norwegian says feminism is
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: inherently political. Yes, exactly. You can't really fight against it
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: and pretend to be a political and it's just not
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: a thing you can say. There's like trad cons and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: they're just as bad. But that doesn't change the fact
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: that they're still falling into a political position. So it's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: not it's not opposites, they're the same. So the personal
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: is political at least according to feminists overlords. Well, they
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: kind of have a point, but yeah, that's another story.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: So are you having people trouble? Look, Alison, you didn't
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: want to do a show, so just chill over there
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: in the in the in the discord. So the person
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: is political, at least according to feminist rewords. Yeah, appreciate it.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Somebody did pop in, but then they left right away.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So all right, so.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you guys, we'll start in like another minute.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just giving people some time to get in to
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the chat. It might be that I chose to do
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the show a little too early, but I figured, like
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: around this time, everybody on the East Coast and everybody
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in you know, across the pond, should be good to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: go if they want to jump in there. And we
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: do have like a disproportionate number of sort of Europeans
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and English Englishmen that watch our content, and we often
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: go on a little too late for them, so I
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: figured this is a little bit more considerate of their
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: time this time. So all right, nobody's coming on. That's okay,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: we'll just start. I'll just start talking about the stuff
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: that I've seen. So let's start by talking about the
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: channel called It's Complicated. It's actually a very large channel,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: and John that runs the channel. He's becoming more and
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: more interested in men's rights issues explicitly and like looking
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: at the actual systemic issues. He recently did an interview
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: with Paul Elim you can see it right here where
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: he spoke to him about the stuff. And I think
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that one of the things that actually got John interested
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: in talking about this, which I think is really interesting,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is he didn't really care for the sort of manisphere
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: as the media reports it, the manisphere that people think
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: of when they think of it today, you know, the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Andrew Tates, the HS Tiki Talkies, the whatever podcast like
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, right, And his reasoning behind it was
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: is essentially the manisphere is not really red pill at all,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: which I have said and Paul has said. And I
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: think after talking to Paul for a while, I think
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: that John's become more and more interested in talking about
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: men's issues like divorce and circumcision and you know all
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the other ones. And he's got a massive platform, like
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: getting up on half a million subscribers, and he's very popular.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: He's been like doing.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: The rounds so much so, and I want to show
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you guys. He was on this channel called Digital Social
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Hour podcast by Sean Kelly. I'm just gonna play a
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: little bit of the intro.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So you guys can see. Let me know if the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: sound works.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, Here, men seem to care more about getting laid
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: than they care about their rights. And right now, it's
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: like men are second class citizens to women. I mean
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: these Menisphere creators will say things like women live life
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: on easy modes. Well, isn't another way to frame that
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: to say that men are oppressed?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so he appeared on this channel. They go
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: for about forty five minutes. They cover a breadth of topics.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty great. This guy's channel is very popular.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I know that for sure. Let me see if I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: can find the guy I hear here. He is, this
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: guy obviously a zoomer, and they get into like the actual,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like you know, deep conversations around men's right. He even
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: brings up circumcision and asks him about it, talks about divorced,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: brings up stories like Nora Vincent. So like, this means
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that the stuff that we've been talking about is getting
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: into the mainstream. I mean, this live stream or this
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: podcast got coming up on four thousand views, it's been
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: up for five days. I hope that there's a lot
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of clips that go out there as well that will
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: help reach more people. But I do think that this
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: is a good example of how this is going mainstream.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Rubin the imitator says, I'm here, but I don't have
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: an X account, so I call in and I'm working
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: what all right, Well that's okay. You can like post
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: questions in the live chat and I'll read them, so
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: all right. So yeah, so this is a pretty good conversation.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: They talk about, you know, whether or not men or
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: women has it better, whether or not women even care.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: What is you know, the deal with the manisphere because
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: this guy he's going off of like the mainstream and
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: what they told him, and it's complicated. John is like,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you know, that's not that's not it. Really, it's been
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: around a long time, he meant talked. They talk about guinocentrism,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: they talk about Peter Wright, they talk about Warren Ferrell,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: they talk about the boy crisis. They go into all
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: this stuff, and I think this is a this is
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: a big deal. This is a really big deal because
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: this kind and you know, this is like where the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: conversation is supposed to go. So I'm actually very excited
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and and encouraged by this, you know, and I think
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: that it's a good thing. Oh, Allison is here, Alison,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: did you want to talk? You can raise your hand
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: if you do, I'll give you speaking permissions. But anyway,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: so yeah, that that's that's kind of what is going
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: on with that. Let's see what else they talk about
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in here. They get into the real goal. So John's
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: real goal is to liberate men. So because he says, well,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: women are liberated, men should be braided too, I'm not
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I'm a little on the I'm not.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Really so sure about that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I guess I get it because it's you know, it
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: seems like balanced, but I'm not sure that that is
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the way to go, because I don't think that women
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: being quote unquote liberated is actually good for them, and
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want men to be in the same boat.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: So that's my my thing is I don't think that
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: what we've done for women is actually benefited women. So
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: that's a concern for me. Look, Alison's just said okay's
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: she wants to talk, so I will approve.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: All right, all.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Right, Elie, you should be able to talk now, I think, uh,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: let me do this the oh there you go?
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: All right, it's like me talking to me with these icons.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's weird.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well I'll try. I noticed that you were doing.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: We're asking for people to come up and maybe join
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: and talk with you. Is the X basis? I mean
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: we used to do those call ins through the discords
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: and they were pretty popular. Is the X space just
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: not really getting out to people?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Or there's somebody right there? I think that's Pepito, I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: mean it. The thing is that, like, yeah, I mean
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: the the discord thing it it always has the same
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: few people, but there are regulars that join the discord.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: The thing about the discord is that you need like
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: to secure other people to help you organize it and
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: make sure everybody's audio is set up correctly. So it's like,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: it's not something I can do easily and spontaneously, right,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So if you tell me the day before do a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: thing tomorrow, I have to hope that there's somebody that
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: can help me do that, Okay, So that and the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: other thing is is that I don't know if you've
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: watched many of those, but like, yeah, it's usually like
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the same like half a dozen or so people. And
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the other thing is that I often have like people
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: have audio problems when they come on, but we have
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: more people jumping in now.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I mean have only been on for about ten minutes.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: So who ish.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I just did a tweet out, so hopefully that gets
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: a few more people.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that. Yeah.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I shared it as a as a post as well,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: so you use like the the ny Maager radio channel
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: today that.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: I just I'll put it in various places and just
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: poke people. Come on, guys. This shouldn't be that much
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: different than our call and server.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: No, it should be better because like anybody with an
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: X account can jump in. Like in general, x X
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: spaces you know, tend to have like a pretty decent
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: sized group of people that are like watching, listening or
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: even talking themselves. So I see red Bill Barbie, and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I see Ivan Helmet, and I see one is worse.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Any of you guys wanna say anything. I was talking
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: about how John from the It's Complicated channel has been
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: making the doing the rounds and and has been. He's
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: he was recently on this big zoomer podcast called a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Digital Old Social Hour podcast by Sean Kelly, and it's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: a pretty it's a pretty decent sized podcast. It often
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it is, you know, popular with the younger people, and uh,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: pretty decently big channel as well.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was I think he's got like
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a million and a half subscribers.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Surprised to talk to us.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: No, no, I don't mean, uh, well, I mean you
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: talked to John. And I think that's the thing. The
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: way that the way that John does his content is
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: he does like manalistreet interviews, so and then he like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: clips them together and puts them out there, and and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: everybody likes his questions because they're very thoughtful compared to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: most man on the street videos or yeah, those kinds
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of things. So that's what probably got on the attention.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: But then once he did he got on this guy's
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: podcast and started talking about like I said, he talked
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: about the men's rights movement as a separate entity from
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the Manisphere, and like I think they even talk about
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: how the manisphere is being like the Manisphere as the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: media presented is being used to sort of like.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Discredit or delegitimize.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: The men's movement, the MRAs. So you just focus on
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the manisphere guys, You say, well, that's what the manisphere is.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: This is what I've been saying from the beginning. But
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: on the other side of that, John is saying, no,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that those guys are basically bluepill guys, which they are,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and they're not really like, you know, interested in men's issues.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: They don't really care about men's issues. They're trying to.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Make money, they're trying to go viral, they're trying to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: get clout and all that's true. I mean, they give
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: lip service to those things, but I don't think they
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: really understand them. And so he's over here talking to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: this guy and he's talking about circumcision, he's talking about
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: divorce core, he's talking about child custody, he's talking about
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: false allegations. He's talking about the education system. He brings
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: up names like Warren Ferrell. He talks about Paul Elam
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and he also did an interview with Paul Elam. So
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: like this is like the I think this is good
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: news because it means that the conversation is being it's
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: shifting towards what we want right, this is why we've
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: been doing what we've been doing.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: So that was one.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up a couple of wins that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: we're getting for the show's topics.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: So this is the first one.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Is So is this is the complicated channel guy?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Right? Yes? With whom he's on.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Another he was on he made an appearance on another
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: podcast called The Digital Social Hour Podcasts by Sean Kelly.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Do you know who that is? Is?
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: No idea, Okay, I'm just saying it's.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Just general like it's a big zoomer. It's a big
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: zoomer podcast. I think.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: Okay, all right, there you go.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So red Pill Barbie has requested to speak. I'm going
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: to give Red pil Barbie the floor. Hello, red Pill Barbie.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I don't believe we've met.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: You.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Should be able to talk.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: Should be the.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, should be in the operative term. Go ahead
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and unmute. You're muted right now?
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: Oh sorry, yeah, I was on delay in the list now,
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: so I didn't hear what you said. When I came up,
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: I was sure a few three I just had the
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: end of it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Oh well what I what? What did what was the
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: what did you hear? I?
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: Did well, how did feel you saying? But then when
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: I came up, I decided you could be able to talk,
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: so like it like broke out, like it was like
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: there's a about a thirty second delay when you're in
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: the listener section.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I see, Okay, well, I'm basically saying, hello, Red Barbie.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I don't believe we've met.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: No, Hi to meet you.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nice to meet you too. So what brings you
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: into our call? Do you have something on your mind?
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: No, it was just I came in. Somebody posted it
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: in a chat and I just came in and I
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: saw the face and I've seen you are back town before,
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: so then I saw the subject and I was like, oh,
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: I've got to go in and see what you're saying.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: And No, it just sounds really good what you're saying
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: about the manaster and men's rights movements. I think there
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: is a lot of truth to be had in that. Like,
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: I think there are people in the management that genuinely
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: do care about men, but from what point is necessary? Like, oh,
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: this is where it gets confusing. I think there are
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: men that care about masculinity. I think there are women
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: that care about preserving masculinity or preserving men's rights to
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: be men as they seek it, because I don't think
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: as a woman it's for me to say what masculinity
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: should be. However, I think that there are people definitely grifted,
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: and I think that is a big problem because I
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: think like for feministics, it's their talking point, because it's
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: their go to. It's they're like, oh, look, you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: these guys don't care about anything. They only care about
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: you know, they only care about gym and they care
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: about using women and they care about this and that,
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: Like it's just not the case. It's really not the case,
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: and we're really mentioned sad. Did I think that the
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: men's rights movement is so important?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I mean that's that's all fair. Did you see the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: thing that I was bringing up specifically with John from
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the channel called It's Complicated, and he basically was a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: sort of man on the street interviewer, and he managed
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to get on this larger platform called the Digital Social
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Hour podcast by Sean Kelly, and they talked about all
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of the issues that we try to talk about, like
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the divorce cords, the family core, child custody, circumcision,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: you know, mentioning names like Warren Ferrell as opposed to
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the sort of like the manisphere figures that the media
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: tends to focus on who those are. I guess when
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I say that those guys are not they're not really
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: concerned about men's issues. I'm talking about the guys that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: are not the whole, the whole of it, but the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: guys that are specifically the most prominent, the ones that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: had like the largest platform, that get the most exposure
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: by the media because they're convenient tools to discredit, like
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the real issues that we're trying to like bring about.
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: No, I agree, I mean that is happening, and I
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: think is I mean controversially gets the most attention on
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: the algorithm and in general, especially by the media people.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: A lot of the big players are highly controversial. They're
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: extremely I don't know, I don't think they necessarily care
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: about I don't want to I don't want to name names,
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: but there are people that definitely don't care about men's rights,
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: and they, you know, they're just just saying, oh, you know,
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: they love using buzzwords like whore and you know this
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: is bad and that's bad and essentially there's no there's
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: no real carevert. But these are the I feel like,
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: at the same time, it's very easy to focus on
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: them and to escape them to deal with the real
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: issue of men's rights and the issues with divorce courts.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: I think that some sometimes it can be also used
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: as an escape, because these are issues that are real,
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: and I appreciate that they're not necessarily the best to
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: speak to s folkes people. But at the same time,
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: I do feel like it can be used as a routine. Hey,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to look at the problems. We're not
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: going to deal with the problems. We're just going to
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: complain about, you know, Andrew Tate. We're just going to
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: complain about Earl Davis. And I think like it's it's
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: like being willfully ignorant, if that makes sense.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's fair. Well.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I was just going to mention also that speaking of Pearl,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: because I think that she's also doing some good. She's
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: recently gotten a documentary fully funded, and she's doing a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: documentary called What's in It for Men where they're discussing
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: specifically that the topic of divorce and the all of
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the sort of consequences of that, like child custody, et cetera.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And I think that she just like did an interview
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: with Paul Elim he just came back from going up there,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and Terrence Pop is involved, so it's gonna be like
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: pretty interesting to see where it goes. So again, I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: think that, you know, I think that Pearl gets a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: lot of guff, but I think that she's one of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the few people in the space that's actually like trying
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: to talk to the people that's been that's been doing
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: this for a long time to actually like, you know,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: hear them out.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I think that's like a big plus.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So I got another request, but thank you read red
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Pill Barbie, appreciate your comments. So I'm gonna accept Natty
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: for THEO toko. So give it a second. I think
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it takes a little bit of a few seconds for
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: it to click off. All right, you should you should
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: have the floor.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Hi Brian, longtime, no speak. How's it going.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I'm good? How are you.
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: Not bad? You're still going to church?
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm okay, okay. Did you want to say anything else?
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I've got plenty to say, but I don't want
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: to come in and just you know, say lots. You
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: guys are chit chatting. I'm sorry, did you hear what
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: I said. I said, you got talking.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you raise your hands, so that's why
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I gave you the floor.
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I had plenty of things to say.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: But you know, if you guys, are are you talking
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: about something in particular? Are you just sort of doing
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: an update of what you're up to?
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm I'm It's basically a call in show, so
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: people can call in and say whatever.
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: But okay, sorry, I didn't realize that. My bad.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: No, it's fine.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not a problem, but I just thought I would
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: have like a topic set up in case nobody wanted
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to join in the call. That way, I'm not just
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: sitting here like with nothing to say and nobody to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: talk to.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: So yeah, well, in show then I'll bring up my topic,
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: which I'm sure you'll have an idea of what I
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: want to say.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: Read the Bible going, You're right, I'm good, Thank you.
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: So just for anyone that's listening. When I used to
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: do Men's Right Satofism, I did do some work with
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: both Alison and Brian, so they know me. I wouldn't
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: say we were good friends or anything, but they do
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: know me. And since then I have death come out
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: against the worldview that they seem to uphold, yet don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: want to discuss in any way with any particular detail
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: because it's probably too much for them, And that would
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: be the fact that the entire men's rights position is
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: based on Guynessism theory written by Peter Wrights, and if
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: he before Peter Wright codified that theory, the term had
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: slightly different meanings in a different way. But he basically
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: just takes the Marxist ernest guy from the nineteen hundred
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: uses that meaning of it, which is that the West
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: is all women centered at the expense of men, and
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: has been so since the medieval period at least, although
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: Peter does talk about other earlier sort of signs of
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: guyness Arism. So one of the main main points that
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: he uses to justify this position is this idea that Mary,
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: as in the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos. Since we're Orthodox
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: in here, me and Brian at least, we call her
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: the theotokos because that means God bearer, and he claims
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: in his writings that she was placed on a pedestal
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: over everybody like in an archetypical kind of way, like
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: Young uses the type archetype and that she was seen
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: as sinless and better than everyone kind of almost got
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: us like. But it was like a way for the
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: plebs to replace the feudal lord that they may have
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: had in the past as time went on. And that's
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: why she was called our lady according to him, which
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: by the way, is a bunch of nonsense.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: That's not true at all.
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: And he also claims that women were seen as were
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: expected to be like the virgin Mary, and because of
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: and Mary was deemed simless. Therefore women were not not
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: held morally accountable in the same way men were. Because
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: he also claims that women were not supposed to be
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: self sacrificial like men were expected to be, basically because
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: men were expected to be like Christ. So we're talking
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: about a Roman Catholic Christian influenced culture here, right, Okay.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: That's just okay, it's okay, letter finish.
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: I'm almost done. And when he says that, yeah, that
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: is also a bunch of nonsense. In fact, it's possibly
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: that's a very very bold, strong claim that he fails
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: to produce any significant evidence for whatsoever. Any historian or
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: anybody that actually has any semblance of European history would
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: look at you sideyed when you're saying that women were
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: not expected to be christ This is one of the
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: main reasons that he uses for claiming that the West
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: is going eccentric. Now I'm gonna land my plane. Now
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: I have plenty more to say about this, but I'm
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: just putting this position out here because neither Alison nor
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: Brian has ever addressed this in any significant detail. And
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: when Alison did talk to me, he tried to sidestep
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: this by claiming that she's hang on, can I have
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: when I'm finished?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you? Right?
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: And when when from my memory of the conversation, she
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: started to do the whole Well, I don't agree with
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: Peter right necessarily, and I'm like, no.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: Another person, and you're expecting to actually.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, if you guys are both talking, If you
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: guys are both talking, nobody can hear you. So let
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: me let okay, Well, let me just natty naddy that
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: many nay, nanny, Naddy, Naddy, eighteen seconds, fifteen seconds, land
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the plane and then I want to see something, and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: then I'll let Alison say something.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Go go ahead.
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: Anyway, my memory from the conversation was that she tried
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: to claim that she doesn't do it the same way
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: when the term was codified and brought into existence on
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: the Internet, right all those years ago by Peter Wright.
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: Even though there is two sides of guyness Anderson's theory,
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: the more evopsych or evo biology leaning side and the
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: more egalitarian side, which is where Peter lands that they
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: both have the same route and the term wouldn't exist
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: if it wasn't for him. And Alison. I'd love you
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: to actually reply to this with some intellectual honesty. Thank
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: you very much for your patients.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Bright all right, would you mind muting? Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: Ginocentrism was not invented by Peter Wright.
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: I never said that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Natty.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Let Alison talk now, right, Oh Alison, you're you're you're.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I don't Alison, Allison, you're a little bit low, just
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Bit okay, just a second. Let me see if I
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: can figure that out. Uh so, my my microphone is low.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your microphone's a little bit low.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Can you lift or increase it?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: No, I can't do it in Twitter. Just just try to,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: like maybe get close to your micro if if you can.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: How is this? That's great? That's great. That's great.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, all right, all right, So your assertion, Natty,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: is that what what is the relationship between Peter Wright
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: and the term centrism?
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: Is that a question or just a rhetorical question?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Keep it?
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: Do what I want.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: I want to operationalize what you think the association between
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Peter Right and the term.
• 29:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so I put my la your question. I'm going
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: to answer it, thank you very much. I'm going to
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: answer your question hand or how I've answered it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: Anyway, So before Peter Wright wrote his essays and started
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: blogging about it back with AVFM, back in the earlier
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: two thousands, even before then, okay, he was in on
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: the internet for a very long time, which you know.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: The term ganocentrism was invented in Europe right to describe
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: the American way of being which didn't really have the
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: kind of patriarchal church system because it was no longer
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: Roman Catholic, because it was Protestant. It was used to
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: actually sneer at Americans that the woman had too much
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: influence because of the individualistic That was one of the
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: terms that it was timed.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It was you.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: Another time it was used by this guy called Ernest
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: who was like basically a Marxist who used it to
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: try and apply Marxist power analysis, you know, power distribution,
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: saying that women had more power and influence over men.
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: And there's a whole you can look that up on
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: the Internet. And Peter even uses it in some of
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: his writings, as in some of his work on his website.
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: He tried he started to use it in a kind
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: of power analysis of way where he mainly got it from.
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: And then you have the term gynosinism used by a
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: feminists in the nineteen seventies who were talking about benevolent sexism. Okay,
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: so the term was used in free slightly different ways
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: by the time you get to Peter Wright's writings about it. Oh,
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: there's also an anthropologist who used the term. All right, okay,
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: But by the time you get to Peter Wright, he
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: is the one who says that he writes about it
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: in a social constructedst of like cultural analysis type of way,
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: which had not been collected or collated in the way
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: until he did it. He's literally collected all these slightly
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: different ways of using the term and blinded to mean
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: women centered at the expense of men. Because there are
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: people that use it before him didn't specifically use it
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: exactly like that. So the way the term that he
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: has used now is directly from his work, and you
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: guys know that. And if you try to deny that
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: in this conversation, everybody else here should know that that
• 31:32
  Speaker 6: is intellectually dishonest, as used in multiple ways. No, I
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: said before piece right point in the term now is
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: the way that he defined it.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Look, if you're both, if you're both talking, nobody can
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: hear anybody.
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: Sods the work wording and misrepresenting what I've said. Alison,
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: try and address it exactly.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Right, all right?
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Let let look guys, guys, now, Allison, please address it,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: but don't ask Natty follow up questions because it's just
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: going to drag out. I want to say something after
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: you're done, to believe that we.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: Have top Peter did not invent the concept? Have you got?
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Let let let Alison finish your point.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: And you're clearly having trouble understanding. I literally just told
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: you I never said he invented the term. I said he,
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: because you've literally just tried again and literally gone and
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: said exactly the same thing. I verified it, and then
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: you've gone again and try to misrepresent. I said, I can't.
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: Allison is dishonest about this.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And she said, all right, look, Natty, Alison, I want
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: to know.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Let me can I can I give my can I
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: give my opinion, my perspective on this plea, yeah, please, Okay,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: just I don't care about the term ginocentrism. And this
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is actually I don't talk to Peter Wright. I haven't
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: spoken to him in years. I don't care about this
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: term at all. I care about divorce, circumcision, child custody,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: false allegations, extended imprisonment, workplace deaths, and and basically like
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the fact that we just don't seem to give a
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: shit about men's issues. I don't need the word ginocentrism
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: to make that argument. I don't need it at all.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I don't need to like make a theological case for
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: it or against it. I care about it in terms
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: of law policy, and you know the cultural whole that
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: we have basically built, and so for me, you you
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: can you know, anybody can say whatever they want about
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: whatever I think. But all I care about is addressing
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: these issues.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: That's and and that's what like what I was saying about,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It's complicated does this channel. He believes things that I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: don't agree with. He thinks that men should be liberated.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think liberation is necessarily good for anybody, you know,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: But I don't care, because he is having the conversation
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and he is actually like, you know, getting like traction.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Like at some point these these differences will have to
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: be confronted, but I'm not that concerned.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Honestly. I care about the laws. I care about the policies.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I care about men in the abstract, I care about boys,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I care about circumcision. I care about these things, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think that I have to make, you know,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: like a case for it, whether it is scientific or
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: if it's theological or whatever.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I just see it as an issue of right and wrong.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And so I mean you can say that like my
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I have to believe Vanessentis is going to be an
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: m RA. I don't think that that's necessarily true at all.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I think you just have to care about, you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: whether or not the laws and the books are fair.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I don't have to make the case that men are victims.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I don't need to do that. I can just say
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: these are the things, like you know this. We have
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: built our of the current system. I guess you could say,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: or the current legal processes that we have are built
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: on bad information and they are hurting innocent people, and
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: so I want to address that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: That's and I'm not saying that as a cop out either.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I think it's just very it's very simple. So that's it. Yeah,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: go ahead, Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: So you are correct that My position is that the
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: only way that you can be an men's rights activist
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: and hold certain positions in the way that you hold them, Brian,
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: is that you need to have a pre cell position
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: which believes in Ganis Andersen theory. But the thing is
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: actually underneath that you need to accept the egalitarian ontological
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: view of a human being. And Okay, so you guys
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: knew me back in the day when I did the
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: MRA stuff. For example, I still believe that circumcision is wrong.
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: I will always believe that. Okay, I believe that when
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: you get divorced that things should be fair. I will
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: always believe that. Right. I believe that family court should
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: be fifty to fifty default custody because that's the way
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: the setup is currently that would probably benefit the most.
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: I believe that right, So I still hold and views
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: me and you would agree on. What I don't hold
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: now is the galitarian view of a human being, which
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: actually then starts to make you question some of those views.
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: And also, I don't believe that that there's gynocentric bias
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: and men are being shafted in family court in the
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: way that Mr Race claim. And there's plenty of evidence
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: that I could go into that, we could demonstrate that.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Even if that was true. Okay, even if that was true,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: let's say that some of it is exaggerated. That doesn't
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: mean I'm not gonna actually fight for it anyway. So
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: again it's a move point because I want these things addressed.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: If it turns out that some people have exaggerated some
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: of the data, it doesn't mean that it's not a
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: non issue.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It's still an issue.
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: I didn't say it's I know.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like you're saying that, well, you know,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the scope of it or the scale of it is
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: not quite what you think.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I think it's less or whatever, and I'm like, I
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: don't care. I want it to be fair.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Honestly, if you just if you actually think about these things,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: and if you actually realize that if the promised that.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Alison, you keep moving away from the microphone.
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: Can I finish what I'm saying? And then I really
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: do want to hear what Alison have to say. I
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: honestly do, and I've coming strong.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: So, Bryant. So look, twenty five percent of breakup to
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: go to family court in the UK, and there's similar
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: numbers in the USA, depending right on the state. And
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: then we could go into how actually family court can
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: advantage and disdvantaged men and women in different ways, and
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: I could go into that, and when you actually look
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: at it like that, you end up going, Okay, actually
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: there isn't some significant issue with men compared to women
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: and vice versa. And when I was an MRA, I knew,
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: you know that, I knew family court advocates in the UK,
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: and almost all of them, having been veterans in it
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: for a long time, who were not ideologically possessed by
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: guards dandism theory. They ended up just being advocates that
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: were not specialists for men. Okay, So I'll that aside
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: for one second, but we finished my point about egalitarianism,
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: and then I'd love to hear what Allison has to say.
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: All of most of the positioning from this men's from
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: the men's rights movement. As I said, it's directly linqoid
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: goind of centers in theory. You have to accept an
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: element of that for sure, and it's a it's like
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: a route belief for you to then take the position on.
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: But underneath that is the idea that we the ideal human, okay,
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: which was agreed at the beginning of the nineteenth century
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: or twentieth cent coming into the twentieth century after the
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: Revolutions and the Enlightenment period after the Reformation, of course,
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: where we kind of split our identity which was no
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: longer in relation to our sense of class status under
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: feudalism or in relationship.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Who is there? What is there.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: But you?
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: You've got you've got a mute and unmute. It's your space.
• 40:09
  Speaker 6: No, it's not me, not me, okay.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: So anyway, like I was saying, is when you trace
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: back the ontological view of a human because in the
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: past we used to be defined in relation to our
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: class status under feudalism and also in relation to the
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: to the church to church hierarchy with the Roman Catholic Church,
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: and you go through the Reformation, that becomes severed in
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: a way. And then you go through the Enlightenment period
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: after the Revolutions, and you come up with this idea
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: of you know, liberty and the human rights. Yeah, you know,
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: the rights of man.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: When you get to that point, it moves from a
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: kind of more embodied sense of self as a human being,
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: which incorporated sex. I mean, it wasn't perfect because but
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: it was better, That's what I'm saying. And then when
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: you go past the Enlightenment to the beginning of the
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: twentieth century and the nineteenth century twentieth century with individualism,
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: especially in the American context, there's this idea that we
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: can be equal through our rational capacity and our ability
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: to reason, and so therefore it's mind over body. So
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: we become mind, body, and soul without anything else in
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: relation to it anymore. And it's this idea that mind
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: is kind of more superior or more important than the body,
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: and the body is where the sex is. And so
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: what I'm trying to say to you is when you
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: accept this ontological view of human being, then the body
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: starts to become dismissed. And it's almost like you're saying
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: that the androgynous form of a human being is what
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: we should be idealizing and faiming for. And that is
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: why I think by the time you get to the
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: second wave of feminism, they are so obsessed with my body,
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: my choice, and this idea of their body been incorporated
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: into their identity because actually there had been this attempt
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: all that time to move this idea of embodiment away
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: from how we define a human being. Now, one thing
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: I'm going to say to you, Brian, is I know
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: that you became Orthodox like I did, and you know
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: that in Orthodoxy we define or the Church defines a
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: human being body and soul and spirit. The mind is
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: not is unified with the body and our view, and
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: so this kind of ontological error is not made if
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: we incorporated the Orthodox view as a foundation for how
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: we think about humanity. All right, So this is one
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: of the reasons why I don't understand why you're still
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: continuing with the same framework after all this time. I
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: get you made it, you've made money, and you're like
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: doing it, bro, But Orthodoxy should have challenged this in
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: you by now, sorry to say, all right, so.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Again you're you're bringing up a bunch of like way
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: of seeing the world that the the overwhelming majority of
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: people who I work.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: With cannot comprehend or embody. So I'm not gonna do that.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna live my way and I'm gonna continue to
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: fight for men's rights, okay, and that and that means
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: like it includes everybody.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, like in the in the broader sense. So
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: you know, you can say whatever you want.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I think you want to suggest that I'm a grifter
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and that I'm doing this just for the money and
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: that I don't.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Actually care about you know, my my faith or whatever.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I'm gonna finish now because this
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: is really shitty of you, and I'm and I'm I'm sorry,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: but that is really shitty of you to do because
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I know what I am and I and I have.
• 43:40
  Speaker 6: Like you're putting words in my mouth.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so let me look, I'm gonna I'm
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: gonna mute you.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Because there's other people that want to talk, and i
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: only have fifteen minutes left in the show. So I'm
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: not doing this because I'm losing the argument. I'm doing
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: this because you're you're operating on a level that most
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: people are just not interested in like they're they're just
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: looking at this in the in the same modern world
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: that everyone else lives in.
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: I'm talking about you.
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: I don't give a crow about Orthodox Christianity.
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: I'm not talking you. I'm talking to.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: This you.
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: So why are you getting don't I'm talking to Brian,
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: not you, Alison. You want to talk to.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: You should be taking me.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I mean I muted, I muted Naddy. Look, I'm not trying.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: Woman.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Look Naddy, I'm trying to get this done.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: Of the podcast that you seem to hate or have
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: a problem with.
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: Yes, I thought, nay, I love you are actually able
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: to control yourself. Alison, that would be nice.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: Why you're attacking Brian because he is part he has
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: something that matters to.
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: Him, and you know you can attacking Brian.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I'm with it and you can deal legitimate him with it. Well,
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: guess what you go through me to do that?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I removed her from speakers. I'm sorry, I'm not trying.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to be like an asshole, but I
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: think that it's it's just not productive. Like like I said,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like if I just said, look,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I want to address these things, and then you know,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: you say, well, here's here's all of that is pre
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: it presupposes all these other things. So like, ultimately the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: end goal is stop doing what you're doing. Like that's
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the only I can only that's the only conclusion that
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I can come to. And it's like, yeah, no, I'm
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: not doing that, Like I I do believe in this stuff. Okay,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna keep doing it. I'm sorry, I'll
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: just go to confession on Saturday. Anyway, I'm gonna let
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I think I got well, Allison, I want you to
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: talk first. You can you can talk now, go ahead?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Or do you want me to give the floor to
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: somebody else?
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Allison?
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: Okay, sorry I was muted accidentally. All Right, is the
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: is the volume good?
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I had to come in and come out and yeah,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: you just have to like get a little closer to
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: your microphone.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: It's okay, you're a little low. I don't know why,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: but it's just you. Yeah.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: Well, here's the issue that I have with what Natty
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: brings up. She attacks your who you are and apparently
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: having the wrong emotional landscape or the emotional reasons for
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: doing what you do, and then she tries to associate
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: everyone with with Peter Wright, who he doesn't. He hasn't
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: created a new definition of ginocentrism. Every definition of ginocentrism
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: was the idea of putting women centrally. There is the
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: UH the feminist definition, which was about literature. There's the
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: sociological definition, which is about putting women's reproductive needs center UH,
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: centering women's reproductive needs as a society. Society is centering
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: women's reproductive interests as a structuring principle. And then there
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: was feral War and Ferrell social prioritization of women's safety
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: and needs is an unexamined default which has significant research
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: behind it. So this is this is something that has
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: been observed consistently that we do center women and women's
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: concerns and harms in policy, like there's there's plenty of
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: research behind that. And then there is the literary cultural
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: criticism in UH that where feminists were talking about texts
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: centered on female experience. But it's all this idea that
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: society or a sub set or a culture is centered
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: on women, either their narrative experience, their reproductive interests, their
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: safety needs, or legally right, So it's all the same
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: thing with different subcategories. What Peter Wright has added is
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: where it came from, allegedly because I don't agree with him, right,
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: And he says it isn't situated with Mary as far
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: as I can tell from what I've read of his work, right,
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: And I think that he isn't talking to me anymore.
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: So I don't know.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: It isn't situated with Mary. It's situated with courtly love
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: in probably the high Middle Ages, right. And I've had
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: arguments with them over this, And I know what he
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: says because I've argued with it because I don't think
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: gono centre is is situated in a social phenomenon. I
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: think it's situated where the anthropologist would situate it, which
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: which is basically the origin of the human bonding, mating,
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: reproductive strategy.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: And it simply is you have to center women otherwise
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: you don't reproduce. They have to have resources. From my mind,
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: it's a neutral, It's just an anthropological fact. Okay, that's it.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: So why do I have to answer for the opinions
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: of Peter Wright. And another thing that I noticed is
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: that she brings Peter Wright and the particular definite or
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: not even definition, but the particular genealogy that he brings
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: to guin of centrism, and she applied it to everybody
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: she wants to discredit. She says, anserin for Peter Wright,
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: and when they say, well, I'm not him, I don't
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: believe what he believes, I don't say what. She's like,
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: you're deflecting. So you can't do anything but say you
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: agree with Peter Wright, and therefore you have to be
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: dismissed on a fundamental level. Those are your two choices.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: Either you defend Peter Wright even though you don't agree
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: with him, or you're deflecting. So she's using Peter Wright
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: as a way of labeling people to dismiss them. And
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: the other thing I noticed from her brand is that
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: she is essentially saying any situation where we recognize that
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: men are put last is gynocentrism, because we're saying men
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: women are put first. So this is a category categorically
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: dismissing every single men's issue, because men's rights activists have
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: to recognize where women are being put first and men
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: last by definition. So whenever I talk to her, I'm like,
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: this is a labyrinth of traps of catch twenty Two's
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: that she lays out and then you have to try
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: to navigate and at the end of the day you
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: get nowhere. Yeah, and Brian is one right whether or
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: not he has to go and do confession with his
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: priest about his work trying to help men who lose
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: their children. No, I'm sorry, father. I care about men
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: too much, and I try to help them legally, or
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: I try to bring up the issues that they face.
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: Whatever that is, that's his own personal issue. That is
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: his own personal thing that doesn't belong in this discussion.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: This discussion is about men's rights. Period arrest my case.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: All right, I want to give up because I mean,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: we got about ten minutes and then I have to go.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to give the floor to doctor Daria
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: m Cohn. I want to also mention, so, Daria, if
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: you're still there and you want to say something, I
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: also want to mention that Paul Elim is starting a
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: new seer on his channel called Repairing the Manisphere. It's
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: pretty exciting because he's going to be calling out the
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: sort of like red pill bros. You know, I don't
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: know what his approach is going to be, but I'm
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: interested to see it. So I recommend you guys check
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: that out as well. So doctor are you there? Doctor? Doctor?
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: Thank you, honey.
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: I know I've got advise changes only because Natty record
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: spaces and I don't want my voice to be recorded.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I agree, that's fine everything.
• 52:34
  Speaker 7: I agree with everything that Alison said. She too has
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: attacked me, Natti ev frozen. You know these catch twenty two's.
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: Put you down and listen.
• 52:47
  Speaker 7: It just all sorts of the various sinister activities and
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: it just gets frustrating. And then if you're gaslighted, and
• 52:55
  Speaker 7: I felt gaslighted a few times, so I know how
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: exactly how you feel, Alison, And it is sad. And
• 53:04
  Speaker 7: it's sad that we also have to entertain her conspiracy
• 53:06
  Speaker 7: varies as well. It's just the whole thing is It's
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: just it's a circus. I do want to talk about
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: the topic.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Oh cool, what do you want to Yeah, what's up?
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: What do you want to say?
• 53:18
  Speaker 7: And I know this conversation is about you know, the
• 53:22
  Speaker 7: medalsphere they're putting men's rights first and and and especially
• 53:28
  Speaker 7: in today's.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: Day and age.
• 53:30
  Speaker 7: And I certainly actually do think there is a very
• 53:33
  Speaker 7: plausible and and something plausible basis for that, and I
• 53:37
  Speaker 7: do agree with you that there has been a sort of,
• 53:42
  Speaker 7: I guess since really for a very long time, a
• 53:46
  Speaker 7: kind of like an anti men campaign that I've noticed
• 53:50
  Speaker 7: where men are kind of forced to.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Try and sort of.
• 53:58
  Speaker 7: Shadow their lights in a and to shadow their leadership role,
• 54:02
  Speaker 7: shadow their skills, you know, just put a big shadow
• 54:05
  Speaker 7: over it and kind of turn it down, which is
• 54:07
  Speaker 7: quite unfortunate and sad. You know, they're not you know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 7: the education system is very much good, very female rather
• 54:16
  Speaker 7: than male. There's not enough support for males out there.
• 54:23
  Speaker 7: We can see that with the suicide rates that are
• 54:25
  Speaker 7: increasing every year. So there's a whole lot of issues
• 54:30
  Speaker 7: to touch upon and something that I definitely want to listen,
• 54:33
  Speaker 7: but I kind of really want you, as a whole sister,
• 54:36
  Speaker 7: help me narrow it down so I can just give
• 54:38
  Speaker 7: you a commentary because it's such a huge subject. But
• 54:42
  Speaker 7: I do think I do agree with everyone on here
• 54:44
  Speaker 7: on the panel about that there're being needed more support
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: and maybe just a kind of a wholesale restructure of
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: our society really, because I would love to see the patriarchy.
• 54:56
  Speaker 7: I would love to see the men come back and
• 55:00
  Speaker 7: and them to be the leaders of the pack, so
• 55:04
  Speaker 7: to speak.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think that men need a lot of
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: help before that can happen. But but yeah, I understand.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: So doctor Dari Daria, do you do you, like, do
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: anything out in the real world with this kind of
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: stuff or is this just like on Twitter or X rather.
• 55:26
  Speaker 7: The mormenting it's on X that I mean, I kind
• 55:31
  Speaker 7: of got to say, I'm kind of knowing my own
• 55:33
  Speaker 7: profession and what I've come across from what I've dealt
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: with I've seen, like genuinely like I so I'm gonna
• 55:42
  Speaker 7: talk from a work perspective, So from a work perspective,
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: and especially from them dealing with colleagues or I'm dealing
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: with opponents. Because I work in the legal field, I
• 55:53
  Speaker 7: find meant to be a lot more easier to deal with.
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: They're much more laid back and much more level headed.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: They just want to see a solution.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: Whereas it's so hard.
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: If there's another woman, it's always a battle, a battle
• 56:11
  Speaker 7: in fact, they seem to be. They just seems to
• 56:14
  Speaker 7: have an ego with them and it's exhausting and.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: It's just a constant battle.
• 56:20
  Speaker 7: And I find out, especially with Natty, it's like they
• 56:23
  Speaker 7: do this is why I find it very because it's
• 56:26
  Speaker 7: like when I call on X, I don't expect it
• 56:28
  Speaker 7: to be on here, but certain people like exhibit those
• 56:31
  Speaker 7: kind of.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Elements.
• 56:34
  Speaker 7: Is that, you know, they just want to be battle hard.
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: They just want to attack, they want to throw ad homs,
• 56:40
  Speaker 7: and it's amazing because they always have this weird backstory
• 56:44
  Speaker 7: of being hard pressed and then you just do a
• 56:47
  Speaker 7: little surface level research and you find out that, oh,
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: they're just middle class and you're just angry little people,
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: the angry little women, and there's no basis for that anger.
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: It's just they're just angry. Hmm.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, thank you for your commentary.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna like give the floor to somebody else just
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: because I don't want to run out of time. So
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I think Kenneth Sounguard has been waiting patiently for a while,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna prove you, Kenneth. And I know that
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that usually takes a few seconds for this to kick on.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So again, I have no ill will towards Natty or anybody.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: I just I'm just focused on what I need to
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: do and why I'm what I'm doing is what I'm doing,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: So like, you know, maybe maybe I'm doing it all wrong.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should just like, you know, not be doing
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: this at all. I'll have to talk to my spiritual
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: father about that and see. But yeah, are you there
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: really quick?
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just say something really quick is no offense
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: to Orthodoxy. But is there any way that Orthodoxy can
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: stop Orthodox women from using these tools marriage?
• 58:01
  Speaker 6: Is there?
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: No?
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I mean not really because the laws of the laws right,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I mean in the church, you're not you know, you
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: like this is the thing? Like, well, I'll say, is
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: that in my limited experience because I've only been Orthodox
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: since twenty twenty three and I don't claim to be
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: an expert at all. When people get married, they know
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: it's more than just a piece of paper. But that's
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: assuming that everyone involved is actually, like really committed to it.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: So I haven't really seen any like issues in my church.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Like people are getting married and having lots of kids
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: all the time, and I think it's great. But the
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: laws of the laws right, like that doesn't change. I
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: just don't know if people would acknowledge that or go
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: over it.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: But you know, so, I just find it interesting that
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: you can't advocate for men's issues because of orthodox see,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: and yet the laws are as far as I can tell,
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: in direct opposition to what religious law would be. Yeah,
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: you see what I'm saying. So I don't know, it
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: just seems very convenient. Anyway, I'll shut up.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: So Kennon, all right, So I tried to get where's
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: the guy?
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess he left, So that's okay, I'll give
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: it to Uh, there's nobody else. Well that's okay, I
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: got yeah, yeah, yeah, there's nobody else. So let me
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: see what you got. So yeah, I was just gonna
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: say so, like Paul Elam's new series is gonna start
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday. It's called Repairing the Manisphere. He's basically going
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: to be critiquing the sort of like popular mainstream the
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: quote unquote Manisphere, Now, which are these sort of andrew
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: tits and fresh and fits and stuff, which we know
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: we have a lot of disagreements with, but for whatever reason,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: they've been catapulted into the mainstream. Well I know why,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: because it helps to it makes us easier to discredit
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: in terms of like the actual issues we're trying to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: see addressed. So uh, okay, I did get another request
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: here from Abby. I will approve it, and Abby, you'll
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: be the last speaker because everybody's gotten a chance.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the call. Abby, What is your take lla?
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: I just feel like you shut Natty down and you
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: didn't let her get her final words in.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: Would it be all right to bring her back up? Uh?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I'm mean, look, I don't. I don't have time because
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: like the thing is is that Natty Gish gallops a lot.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: She basically goes through a bunch of like talking points.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: You can't really respond to them. I know that she's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: building a case, but the fact is, like if we
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: want to, I just want to focus on the things
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that can be done. And if you hit me with
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: the philosophical reasons why I'm doing something bad, then the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: only thing I can conclude is that you're telling me
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: to stop and I'm not going to so you're wasting
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: your time.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: So that that's.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Basically you know, you can say that, Abby, if you're
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: if you want to make a case, then you can.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Do it on your end if you wish, Because I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: give you.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: The floor, I cannot just say that she just missed.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 7: Natty just present herself as an anarchist, but then she
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 7: just comes from along the line a very rich, very
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 7: very very well to the Golden Spin anarchists, and so it's.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know anything about that. I don't know
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: anything about that, so I'm not gonna but but yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: If you think that there's any argument that we haven't addressed,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: go ahead and tell us.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: Should I give it a floor again?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Sure, all right, I've done it.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: Sorry, I've been given the mic.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Now, okay, am I did you hear what Allison said?
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 6: Sorry? I didn't here. Sorry, I wasn't expecting you.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Just gaming?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: All right, you can I say something or.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Hello?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: Is Alison speaking?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Allison? Are you there? Did you mute again?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, sorry, keep it to the arguments. Don't talk
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: about Peter Wright, don't talk about Brian's orthodoxy.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 6: Okay, arguments, argument, and both of those two things are
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: actually directly related. First of all, doctor Dario is a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 6: troll and she lies about people. I'm not born with
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: a silver.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: Spar not an argument.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 6: I'm just responding to Listen, I'm responding to accusations of
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 6: yes I am, so I'm just.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: Not appreciating.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm sorry.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 8: I'm happy to make your argument for you, Alison. I
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 8: can actually address nanny will make an argument the best
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 8: way I can Allison, You're a smart lady.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: You should be able to address it.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: I don't give a ship about your.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: Either about whatever you're saying either. Okay, let's try and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: be friendly. You've got very me do it then, thank you. Okay.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: I am not obsessed with Peter Wright as a person.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: Mention.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: No, I'm absolutely going to because you just said doubt me.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: You do not intimidate me. Just because you don't like
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: yourself as a woman doesn't mean you get to talk
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: to me. I will make the argument, and you are
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 6: not going to intimidate me. Okay. You every time I'm
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: starting to speak, you are looking for a way to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 6: nitpick me.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to remove some speakers here.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 6: I'm sorry just until I finished, Brian, Alison, stop stop
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: stop nitpicking me. Okay, Allison, you are not going to
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: intimidate me with your behavior A liston. No, you're not
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 6: trying to keep me on task. You're trying to frustrate
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: me and Alison. When I have spoken about guy noosndrism
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: theory by Peter Wright, I will say his name is Mark,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: which as I need to in this argument. Yes, anyway,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 6: it's not about Peter right, It's about the fact that
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 6: I'm speaking as much as I need to, Allison, thank you.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 6: It's not because I am interested in him as a man.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: I really couldn't give shit about him as a man.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: It's that he was the one who amended and won
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: by Alison, get some impulse control, please. Yes you're acting
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: very but you keep interrupting me. You're being very seminar.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: That has nothing to do with Peter.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 6: Try to spurg an egalitarian like you still want to be.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 6: Thank you, he was the one who amended the term. Okay,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 6: he's not. He's not playing into me trying to intimidate.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: Oh my god, I can't believe it.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 9: Feminine merely pointing out that you cannot make an argument
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 9: that doesn't.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: Involve still interrupting me, Alison, I'm going to try it
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: for the third time, and you are not going to
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: mention Peter. Allison. It doesn't matter that no one mentioned it.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: I mentioned it because it's part of my argument, and
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 6: you need to get you have.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 9: No argument that hasn't been address argument, and you're not
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 9: letting me say it because you are triggered as fuck,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 9: because this need this is challenging you, and you don't
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 9: like it because you've been on this whole thing for like,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 9: are you going to moderate.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 6: I'm saying, tell your co host to shut the fuck up?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 6: You want me to make doesn't involve You're not going
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: to frustrate me. I will be here till the end
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: of time.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: If you mentioned Peter.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: As much as I want to, because it's part of
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: your don't shute, Alison, cannot turn police my speech. Alison, Okay,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: yourself be rational? You love rationalism, don't you be rational? Pleads?
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: Now you're going to make talking? Are you going to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: let me do my argument? Yes or no?
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: I'll let you compose.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 6: My argument, yes or no? It's a yes. Actually I
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 6: haven't been able to make it because you keep interrupting me.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: You're spurging. You cannot dictate what I'm going to say.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 6: Then shot doesn't drop, Allison, shut up, Allison, let let
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 6: let her.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Let her do it. She's going to say his name anyway.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be here until I got stuff
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: Alison, stop spurgging. You're being really feminine. Remember being rational?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: Me ration like being try and be.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know why you keep trying to insult me.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 6: Point Alison, it's called sarcasm. I know you're not British,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 6: but we do actually use sarcasm to insult people sometimes.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 6: All right, Okay, make your argumentse make my argument, and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 6: try not to spurg out because it's boring for everybody else.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 6: I don't lose anything.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: I think we get it.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Just let her, just let her say it. We know
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: what's gonna just let her say it. We know what's coming,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: just let her say it. Go ahead.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 6: Oh my god, Alison, I told you. You went over
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: what I already said. Okay, the term was used in
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 6: slightly different ways until Peter Wright codified it in the
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: way that it's used now. He was the one who
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 6: collected it all the ways it was used and then
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 6: subversively spun it with a social construction, this narrative that
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: that basically gives us an ahistorical revisionist view about medieval history. Now,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: you said that you have argued with him and disagreed
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 6: with him. I'm not surprised about that, because he's quite disagreeable.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: And you said that it was only to do with
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 6: Courtney love Well, actually he says both. He says it's
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: to do with some conspiracy that happened with Courtney ladies
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: and the chivalry change from being about met about a
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: code of conduct of behavior to being about women. And
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: this was a conspiracy from a cabal, right, I haven't
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 6: you haven't finished. I haven't finished. You can clarify whatever
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: when I'm finished. Thank you. He also mentions Courtney Love,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: and he says those two things intersect together. He links
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: them together. Now, what's very interesting from a kind of
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 6: Orthodox point of view is that Courtney Love Courtly Love, Sorry,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: came out as a kind of like cultural influence around
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: the time just after the schism. Yeah, so the East
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 6: West schism I'm talking about, and from an Orthodox point
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 6: of view, when you the church is split and Roman
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 6: policism was influencing the culture in the West, this this
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: kind of like created a kind of a split in
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: the psychology of everybody. Yeah. So we had this ideal
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: of like overt rationalism and scholasticism, okay, which is basically saying,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 6: you know, everything needs to go through the mind and
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 6: natural theology rather than the mystery of God, which is
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 6: what Orthodoxy would probably more focus on. And that actually
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: caused a kind of like a more polarization between this
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 6: idea of being overtly rational and overtly emotional. Yeah, and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 6: so also from our point of view, from the orflot's
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: point of view, that kind of made the trinity less
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 6: holistic because of the filioquay, which I'm not going to
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: go into. So that's actually quite an interesting thing to
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 6: bring up, which if Peter Wright was a reasonable and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 6: agreeable person who wasn't a subversive who uses ahistorical narratives
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 6: to make a to create a term which is now
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 6: widely used by people like yourself, but you seem to
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 6: don't understand the term in the way that you're using them.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 6: That would be an interacting convertation to talk about why
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 6: that actually occurred. But either way, this narrative is wrong,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 6: and your narrative about threat narrative with women and all
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 6: of that is also exaggerated and wrong because you're coming
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 6: at it from an evolutionary biological perspective, and I could
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 6: now I'm going to have to go and get my
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 6: notes out to argue with you that actually is absolutely
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 6: nothing to do with valuing women and centering women at
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 6: the expense of men. That humanity has never operated that way.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: It has placed the vulnerable as in children right first,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 6: It's never been about women forever that has never been
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: the case, right, And that's I think that's partly because
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: you have a very individualistic frame of how you view
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 6: things and people. And that's an argument that I could
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 6: also bring up, which I would love to make to
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 6: you in a more civilized manner when we have more time.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: All right, is that it? Okay? So let me just
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: say I'm no, I'm not being dismissive. I'm not being dismissive.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: So let's say, let's just say for the sake of argument,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: that everything that you said is one hundred percent right,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: Like all of that is correct. Okay, Now what so
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: I want to know where, like, what should we be
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: doing instead? If everything that you said is true?
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: What do we do?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 6: Okay? That's a genuine question to me.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, all right, So.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 6: I believe that we need to challenge the egalitarian foundation.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: And I know I take your point that most people
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 6: don't know how to speak about like philosophical principles and
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 6: it's hard to communicate to others. But what I would
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 6: say is, I think most people would understand that we
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 6: have gone into a very mind focused world. Now, you know,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 6: being on the internet tends to focus things through the
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 6: mind more than anything else as well as an example,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: And there's a lot of talk now about basically being
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 6: more embodied in a unified way, and I think this
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 6: would solve the seeming polarity issue that we have, which
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 6: is like egalitarian versus trad con or like, you know,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 6: egalitarian versus what was the other way I would have
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 6: put it? Oh, you know, like when we're talking about women,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 6: we talk about girl boss versus child wife. It's like
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 6: that's a fake binary. That's always been a fake binary,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: and it's ridiculous that this is still continuing on this
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 6: stupid app and everywhere else. So if we could somehow
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: have a kind of a campaign for people to go
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 6: hang on a minute. Sex is part of the body,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: the mind is also part of the body, and thought
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 6: isn't necessarily generated in the mind actually, and that's also
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: very interesting. There's a lot of there's a lot of
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 6: the kind of neuroscience that's coming out and confirming that.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 6: And I think there are ways to have this conversation
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 6: and ways to promote this in culture, and I think
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: orthodoxy promotes it pretty well once it becomes more understood.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 6: But in the meantime, yeah, I think just calling out
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: these fake binaries that constantly come up up all the time.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 6: And then the second point I would like to make
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: is this understanding about anthropology. Now, as a Christian, an
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 6: Orthodox Christian Brian, you know that's an end of the
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 6: world through a man, which is in Romans five, and
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 6: you know that on the under the Study Notes of
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 6: Genesis three in the Orthodox Study Bible, it says that
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 6: Adam adam ate the fruit willfully, and his will is
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 6: what needs healing first in man. The reason why I
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 6: say that is because we've got this weird thing where
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 6: we keep saying understanding that men are the ones who
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 6: like to take action and they have led every single
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 6: cultural revolution ever, but then at the same time, like
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 6: constantly looking to women saying, well, you're the ones who
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 6: did this, and you're the ones who did that, and
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 6: you're the ones who influence this and influence that, And
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: it's a really weird, schizophrenic position that I just think
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 6: is not tenable for the future. So I think that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 6: understanding that we need to have women's spear, male spear,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 6: and a communal sphere, and that women's spear should be
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: protected at all costs, and male spear should be protected
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: at all costs. And the main kind of thing I think,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: especially when it comes to red pill manuscert influences on
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 6: men now, is that men do not define themselves in
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 6: their hierarchy with each other in relation to women. If
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 6: you put them all in an island somewhere, they will
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 6: still formulate into a hierarchy amongst themselves and have a
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 6: way that they relate to each other whether women are
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 6: there or not. And this whole evolutionary psychology stash biology
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 6: position that seems to just constantly then reframe it as
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 6: only in relation to women that needs to die in understanding,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 6: it's just not true. And I think that once we
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 6: get to that understanding of things, then everything else should
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 6: be a little bit more smoother in terms of conflict
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 6: between the sexes, because all of the issues that you
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 6: care about, Brian, if we have a more embodied understanding
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 6: of what it means to be a man and what
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 6: it means to be a woman, there won't be so
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 6: much like fighting about who's got more of this pie
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 6: and who doesn't have this and that, because it'll be like, well,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: why would you argue about that, because you're a man
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 6: and you're a woman and you're different, and you relate
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 6: to each other differently, and you relate to everyone else differently.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: So if you stop, if you try to challenge the
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 6: framing that you seem to have not challenged, is basically
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 6: what I'm telling you.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're talking about something that's a lot bigger
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: than just men's issues. Then you're talking about completely restructuring
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: our society to change everyone's way of viewing the world
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: and way of living in the world. That is a
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: much bigger project than what I want, which is just
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: to simply try to, you know, make the laws fairer
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: and stop mutilating little baby boys. That I mean, I'm
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: not saying it's like it's a I'm just saying it's
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: a you're you're taking this and you're making it to
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: a much larger project, and I'm I'm already burdened with enough.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: But I understand where you're coming from, and I do,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: and I have talked about the men's spaces and women's
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: spaces as well.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: I've been saying that for years actually.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: But I'm gonna give Alison the floor back and then
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna like try to get this done because
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: I really gotta go so Allison, you've got the floor.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 6: Again very quickly, very very quickly. Yeah, so I I
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 6: don't think look when you became orthodox. Sorry to make
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 6: it about orthodoxy for a second, but I'm just using
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 6: Brian as an example. You are supposed to have a
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 6: complete ontological shift, like sorry, you're supposed to have a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 6: complete turning upside down of how you view humanity ontologically
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 6: because you start to go, Okay, we're supposed to be
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 6: promoting people to be in Christ and everybody's made in
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 6: the image of God, as in the image of Christ,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 6: and then you start to actually like things have revealed
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 6: to you and so like for you personally, it's more
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 6: like you'd be looking at the same situation but through
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 6: new eyes and saying, oh, actually, perhaps this isn't such
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 6: a systematic issue in the way that I thought. And
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: actually some of the issues that you seem to have
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: made a big deal about in the past are actually
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 6: like when you look at the data, it sounds out
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 6: that both men and women have their issues on both
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 6: sides and it's kind of even right. And the circumcision
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: thing in particular, there's been really good work on that.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 6: The interactivists have done a very good job, and it's
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 6: going down every year, and it's probably going to be
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 6: eradicated in America eventually. So it's not as if you're
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: nothing is going well in regards to that. And you've
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 6: also had fifty to fifty custody growing in different states
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 6: in recent times.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've talked about that on the show. Yes, pretty well.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 6: I don't think you you know so, I don't think
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 6: there's been like the alarm about oh man, no one
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 6: cares about man.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 6: Look, I've made a video, Brian. I'd love you to
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 6: watch it that says that patriarchy needs paternalism, and I
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 6: think you probably agree with that. You might not agree
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 6: with using the term patriarchy, but I'm just talking about
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 6: men on then I agree.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: No, Natty, I don't think you've been watching me lately.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually pro patriarchy. But it's all right, I
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: am you.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: I don't usebordinate to the male sphere, but anyway that
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: that's not really relevant to me as well as a wealthy,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: a filthy secularist. But all right, So I wanted to
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: address some of the stuff. Sorry about this, I've.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: Been I need I need to end this.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: So let's let Alison finish her point, then I'm going
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: to close it out. Okay, So I appreciate, I appreciate.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: I actually want to give a big hand to Brian
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: because somehow you worked your magic and we've somehow moved
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: past Peter Wright. That is, yeah, you're male leadership for
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: the win.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: Anyway, I moved my argument. What I was talking about
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 6: so like that was completely dishonest. Try and be honest,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 6: please honestly.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: No, he literally handled you, my friend, just like he
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: should because he's a man and you're the woman. That
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: is an orthodox position.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: All right, Alison, go ahead, Yeah, all right.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: So now that we've moved beyond Peter Wright and into
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: some arguments we can actually address, I don't My research
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: is leading me to realize that there are fundamental differences
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: in the cognition and the cognition of men and women.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: So no, I am not pursuing any kind of, at
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: least in my own personal research, any kind of androgyny.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: I still believe that at the very least, men and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: women should be equal in front of the law. And
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: I don't see how we can create a situation where
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: men can lead properly in an orthodox sense unless they
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: have social, religious, and legal superiority, or at least responsibility
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: and control. So you know, you contend with that. It's
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: not my issue as a filthy secularist, but it is
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: an orthodox issue, right. But I do agree that men
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: and women in many ways occupy different spheres. So, but
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 4: if we're going to take that to the logical conclusion,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: how do we get to that point? Do we make
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 4: it so that women aren't working with men so that
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 4: they have their own sphere? Do we make laws against that, right?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: Or can we just go in the middle place and
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: just stop benefiting women over men, right, stop giving them
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: preferential treatment in terms of grades, scholarships, and hiring. Can
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: we do that before we go to the orthodox position
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: of just getting women out of men's jobs entirely and
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: into their own sphere? Right? I mean, I'm like, I'm
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: not sure with Brian, I'm coming it from a different angle.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: That's a that's a hell of a lot of an
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: ask to change our society overnight into recognizing that men
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: belong in the workplace, men belong in the military, men
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: belong in politics, and women belong at home raising children. Right,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: And even that, I would argue, isn't quite accurate to
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 4: history because women have always done a lot of work.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: But if that's the position you want, Noddy, that is
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: a really big ask. And what I see is that
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: recognizing the issues men face might be an intermediary step,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: you know, creating legal equality between men and women, so
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: that men don't have to deal with all of the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: deficits that they have to deal with, not just legal equality,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: but maybe removing affirmative action that benefits women and all
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 4: of this other stuff. Right, rape shield laws, et cetera,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: which are essentially degrading the due process for men in
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: under certain crimes. Right, why don't we do that? Why
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 4: don't we do the intermediary steps instead of en envisioning
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: a grand separation of the spheres based on Orthodoxy christian
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: Orthodox Christianity. You know, let's do the little steps and
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: then once we have legal equality, maybe we can discuss
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: putting men in positions of legal authority over women. I
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: don't know, it's a thought, just throwing it out there,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: all right.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sure that Natty wants to respond to that,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: but I'm I we gotta go, so I gotta do
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: some stuff at home.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: But I mean this was I think let.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: Me, Yeah, yeah, go ahead, because you're you're a Christian Orthodox.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: Aren't men supposed to be an authority over women in
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: Orthodox Christianity?
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I think that men have to work on
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: themselves before they can take that on otherwise, you know,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: so that they're where we all we all have work
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: to do on ourselves, right, do women have work to do?
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: Of course? Yeah?
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: All right, Well, I mean this might be where we
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: differ because I I'm not sure what I can say.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: The work that men have to do.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying, like we're it's it's asked of
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: everybody that they have to work on themselves.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: Like, men don't just get authority for free, like I'm saying,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's earned, but that that's all I'm saying.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: But look, I'm not, like I said, I'm not an apologist.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't do that. It's it's like most arrangements.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: But I'm gonna leave it at there.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: So well, you know what, what what your arrangement of
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: authority versus lack of authority? Again, filthy secularist, I don't care.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: You can arrange your lives in whatever way you want
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 4: legal equality. And if the situation is that, I mean,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: I don't know how men are gonna earn authority if
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 4: there isn't a place that that authority is, right, like
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: if you don't have any kind of goal state like Okay,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: so let's say you you the authority. You have to
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: run the authority Maze or the authority beat boot camp
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: or whatever. Okay, at the end of that, what is
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: the authority that the approved men get over women?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 4: That's that's something that I would ask mm hmm, okay,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: what what do these men earn? Or do they just
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: constantly earn responsibility over women that they have no authority over,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 4: which strikes me as being a very negative catch twenty
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 4: two And again that is well out of my wheelhouse.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: It's none of my business, filthy secularist. Just want to
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 4: get legal equality. And again, you can want legal equality
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 4: while recognizing that men and women are different, because legal
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: equality is just legal equality. Outcomes are driven by how
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: men and women are different. And if you get away
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 4: from expecting there to be some kind of equity because
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: you recognize that men and women are different, as far
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: as I'm concerned, that's good enough. Like you were saying, Brian,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 4: this grand separate spheres thing is, it's a quite a
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: utopian vision, shall we say, whereas I guess we're just
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: grubbing in the dirt, wanting to make realistic changes within
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: our communities and within the people who we talk to
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: and we work with, and within the legal sphere.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm done, all right, all right, Well I'm
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: gonna end the show there though, Thanks guys for coming.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you to everybody who spoke and gave their thoughts,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: and I want to again just the thing to take
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: home with you is that we are making progress. Even
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: that he admitted that circumcision is going down and fifty
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: fifty custody is spreading. It's almost like this is what
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: I was trying to do, and it's working.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: Look at that.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: But also, you know, we're sort of like starting to
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: decouple ourselves from that sort of let's say, ruinous part
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: of the quote unquote manisphere that's basically just materialistic, I
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: don't know, like worldly things that are just not really
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: like fulfilling in the long term, and I don't think
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: it's good for men to go down that road. So
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: fortunately there's more of that change happening as well. So anyway,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: with all that said, thanks guys for coming on the stream.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you to people who joined in the x space.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: If you guys liked this video, please hit like subscribe
• 1:30:05
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• 1:30:07
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• 1:30:09
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• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: share the video because sharing is caring. Thanks guys so
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: much for coming on this episode of the x Q
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: and a X Space Thing, and we talked to you
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: guys in the next Men's Right activists