Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Dunn & Peter Ould about their choice of State of Decay (4/4)

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Talks to Paul Dunn & Peter Ould about their choice of State of Decay (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker.
0:37
Quicker Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blump pen Knife,
0:40
the Doctor Who Commentary podcast fresh from sucking
0:47
outrageously at the neck of the other guests.
0:51
Mr. Paul Dunn. Hello.
0:53
Good evening, I'm back again. Yeah, I've got blood around your
0:55
lips. I'll see you there.
0:57
Tasty. Lovely.
0:59
Ohh, good, good, good and always ready with a steak and a
1:04
crucifix to protect us from vampiric mutations.
1:08
Mr. Peter old. Hello, Peter.
1:10
Hello, I've got a bell in a book somewhere as well.
1:12
If if. You need do you?
1:14
I'm like the bell. You should have introduced with
1:18
the Bell your episode, you know. I I would just be walking in
1:22
front of you going unclean. Yeah, shame, shame.
1:27
Ah, fellas. Well, what a jolly time we've
1:31
had tonight. Talking about State of Decay,
1:32
ace. Absolutely.
1:35
I think people would say a story that that, you know, it is like
1:38
a tradish story, OK. But where it sits in Tom Baker's
1:43
run, all the contributors involved, I think it all just
1:47
sort of comes together to make it something a bit unique, which
1:51
we have talked about already. We're now about to watch an
1:56
enormous, mighty bolt of steel be actioned to take out the
2:01
great vampire. Are you guys ready for this?
2:05
Let's do it. Let's go for it.
2:07
Peter, please, you started by counting us in.
2:09
Will you end by counting us in, please?
2:12
OK. So in 321-GO.
2:17
Boom, there. We go now.
2:21
This was broadcast first time round on the same weekend that
2:26
Tom Baker and Lala Ward got married.
2:30
Do you hear the story that Peter Moffett tells?
2:32
They phoned him up, I think it was Lala, and says Tom and I are
2:35
getting married. This is after this has been
2:37
recorded, obviously. And he goes, oh, you're mad, the
2:40
pair of you. It won't last two minutes.
2:42
He goes. And then he looks at the camera
2:44
and goes. I don't think it lasted much
2:45
longer actually, like. 18 months, right?
2:49
Yeah. Peter Moffett, you know, for,
2:53
for he's famously a very lovely director.
2:57
You know, he's sort of known more for creating a nice
2:59
atmosphere than creating dynamic television.
3:02
Boy, he can be really bitchy on those commentaries.
3:05
I. Mean, he's very camp frustrate
3:10
person, isn't he? Yeah, I was.
3:11
Trying to He was gay, no? No, he's married.
3:17
I have no idea. Now, look, fellas, Mark, can I
3:21
suggest like you don't ever want to drink, stay on flat blood,
3:26
all right? Always go for something fresh.
3:28
Good for you. Yeah, good for you.
3:30
Yeah, right from the sauce and. I don't know if you saw Paul,
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but Peter sort of been sipping away at something red looking in
3:36
a glass throughout this call. Oh, so you like to tell us?
3:41
I like it was a a nice Austrian blood Frankish, which is a
3:45
peanut sort of. Oh, say it again, say it again.
3:49
Love Frankish? I don't like having a bit of
3:53
culture on these calls, you know?
3:55
It's never coming from my direction.
3:58
Austrian Reds are there's two main grapes, Blau Frankish and
4:01
Spy goat, which are pinot derivatives.
4:05
But the Austrians also do, particularly around Vienna, in
4:08
the hills around Vienna, do something called Gemista art,
4:11
which literally means mixed art. And it is they are.
4:15
Almost every vineyard has its own grape and it's just what it
4:19
is. And it can really be hit and
4:21
miss every year. Some years can be fantastic and
4:23
some years can be rubbish. A bit like Doctor Who, really.
4:28
You're saying your wine is a bit like Doctor Who?
4:30
Yeah. My wine's a bit like Doctor Who.
4:31
It get, it can be. It can be a bit hit and miss at
4:34
at the time, but it all gets better with age.
4:36
Oh, that's great. That's brilliant, yes.
4:40
Occasionally pecan, you know, cheeky, yeah, and occasionally
4:44
sour. As it goes down, when you open
4:47
it, it's it's gone. It's really.
4:50
Good. Has it got a bouquet?
4:54
More of a table wine, I think. This one, Paul.
4:56
Yeah. So we're, we're back in the
4:58
TARDIS here and we've got the law.
5:01
And now what we're doing is we're setting up Part 4.
5:05
We're going to, we're going to, we're going to work out how
5:08
we're going to defeat the vampires.
5:10
And he's going to need a ragtag army.
5:13
So let's go and make an impressive passive entry, as it
5:17
were. It's so funny, I'm sorry.
5:21
Was it lack of weapons? He who rouses in the name of his
5:25
space? Now what speech is that from?
5:26
Is Shakespeare, isn't it? Henry the 5th.
5:28
Yeah. It's on Saint Crispin's Day.
5:32
Now, Tom didn't get away with what he wanted to do, which was
5:36
that they were all going to throw the Spears in the TARDIS
5:38
and he was going to come out holding all of them.
5:41
Yes. I think JNT went, Oh no, that's
5:44
a bit silly. Or maybe crispy meat did.
5:46
Yeah. But you know, if you want to
5:50
turn a bunch of peasants into an army turn turning up in a blue
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heart, you know, out of thin air, I might do it.
5:56
It's, it's one way to do it, but it's one way to do it.
5:59
It's it's here they come. I feel sorry for this old man,
6:04
Cow Marg. You know, you don't get much to
6:05
do, does he? He's been stuck there all time,
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hasn't he? Yeah, he's waiting for his
6:10
interplanetary cruise. That's what he's doing.
6:13
I'm sorry to drop in on you like this.
6:17
Oh my God, he's. What was that?
6:18
He did. Do you see his hands?
6:21
Now, I think at this point you can tell that Lalan, she's,
6:25
she's now fine with Tom, right? But Lana and Matthew are not
6:29
not. No bloody hell, this.
6:32
Is so stylised this for two. I love this.
6:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that is very theatrical,
6:38
isn't it? But that's pure.
6:40
Theatre I'm. Beautiful.
6:42
That's not camp. That's a whole row of Marquis.
6:44
Yeah. And and didn't, didn't, wasn't
6:50
it during the filming of this that Matthew Ward House famously
6:55
just didn't, didn't want to get out of his costume for lunch and
7:00
dinner, Right. So it's not to spoil it, right.
7:03
And it's like, come on, get on with it.
7:06
I want to go to the BBC canteen dressed like this.
7:10
Oh, I love this, she goes. What's it Rich, fat worlds
7:14
teeming with life, Countless inhabited planets all waiting to
7:18
feed our hunger. How did they do the teeth?
7:22
Because they look really good. They're great, aren't they?
7:24
Yeah. Absolutely.
7:26
Fantastic. I've seen modern shows where the
7:28
teeth look terribly plastic, but I mean, but she's selling it as
7:32
well look. Absolutely.
7:33
I think you're right. Of the three of them, I think
7:36
it's her, right? Yeah, look at her.
7:39
She's already sucking those planets dry for God's sake.
7:42
She was. Looking a bit orgasmic there
7:44
wasn't. She imagining it?
7:45
Certainly, yeah. I think the one on the right,
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what's his name? Sargo.
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Sargo. He's a little more embarrassed
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than the role. Like he's frustrating, I mean.
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She's going for it, isn't? She have you?
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Have either of you guys heard the commentary?
7:59
Yes. Lala man is all over Rachel
8:02
Davis, isn't she? She goes.
8:03
Look at you, darling. You're just going for it.
8:06
Yeah. I did see her at a convention
8:10
actually, and she absolutely loved doing this.
8:13
I can't imagine, you know, Lala Ward as a Vestal Virgin.
8:16
They put her in the white clothes, don't they?
8:18
Why should I put Adric in the clothes?
8:20
Yeah, do something before Doctor Who that was basically Vestal
8:23
Virginie sort. Of oh.
8:25
Oh, she did a horror thing, didn't she?
8:27
Was. It the.
8:28
Vampire lovers. Yeah, something like that.
8:30
Yeah. See, she was probably your
8:32
lesbian vampire Joe. Yeah, was, you know, she's got
8:35
form. Well, she was actually bi,
8:37
probably, in that she's probably doing everybody.
8:39
Yeah, it's, it's that sort of genre, you know, where it was
8:43
acceptable, but but only that genre.
8:45
Yeah, yeah. OK oh, do you know what this
8:48
episode's got one of my favourite lines of all time of
8:50
Doctor Who. Are you ready?
8:53
Then die. That is the purpose of gods.
8:57
There's. Also, there's also a stand out
9:03
moment. A very, very rare Doctor Who
9:06
technical achievement here. Go on shortly, see if you can
9:10
spot it when it happens. A technical.
9:13
Achievement. A massive technical achievement
9:15
here in Doctor Who, yeah. OK, it's not the pit where the
9:18
guard gets blasted and then rolls across.
9:20
OK, No, I can go past. I don't.
9:22
Think that ranks very, very highly.
9:24
That's wonderful. Oh, it's not on the screen, is
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it? Not yet.
9:29
No. No, no, no, no.
9:31
It's not the doll, is it? Of the Great Vampire?
9:34
OK, No, no. Any idea?
9:36
Probably. Absolutely none at all.
9:38
OK, well, brace yourself because it's about to come.
9:41
This is this is, this is really good now, right?
9:43
So we've got the tower and and this is this is the bit which is
9:47
basically, this is the last bit of the story that we haven't
9:51
been explicitly told. We've been, we've been, we've
9:55
been hinted at it. And now we're going to go, as
9:58
you said, we're going to go into X-ray and we're going to see
10:01
beneath the tower. There we go.
10:02
By God. Yeah.
10:05
That Barbie vampire is absolutely chilling.
10:08
He's. Not that great, is he?
10:09
Come back, Bach, All is forgiven.
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You look like Bach after he's been on a diet.
10:17
You know, you said about, hinted at, you know, in Episode 3 when
10:20
Tom looked straight at the camera and went, if only I could
10:23
get my hands on a mighty bolt of steel, you know?
10:26
Are you paying attention, kids? Yeah.
10:29
Now look at the tension between Waterhouse and Ward in this
10:32
scene. Yeah.
10:35
She goes, how dare you, Adric, and there's no acting involved
10:38
at all. No, there's no acting here at
10:40
all. This is it.
10:41
Yeah, she looks pissed off, doesn't she?
10:43
But I suppose the idea is is she is supposed to be angry with him
10:46
and he is lying. Swear, isn't he here?
10:49
Like he's trying to wind her up. It's never quite clear, is it,
10:53
whether he's just going along with them.
10:56
Well he genuinely is like, hey, we're about to lose, so I'm
11:01
going to take power and wealth and sucking planets off.
11:04
Yeah. What a life.
11:08
Yeah, it could be clear. I've been promised power and
11:11
eternal life, he goes. You know.
11:15
Never. Die.
11:16
That's a great line. He goes.
11:17
You sit at yourself, you're on the menu.
11:20
I mean, if it's a choice between that or joining the diners, what
11:23
would you do? Great line.
11:27
You're on the menu, for fuck's sake.
11:30
Oh, OK. Right.
11:31
Is this the technical treatment? Have I missed it?
11:33
No. No.
11:33
No, we still haven't had it yet. Oh my God.
11:37
Oh, it's not that vampire that comes down and stops sucking on
11:40
her neck. Is it the the bat?
11:42
No, no, no, no. OK.
11:43
No, no, no, I'm so intrigued. I'm waiting on baited breath
11:47
here. You.
11:47
All intend to. I know.
11:49
Yeah. Yeah.
11:49
We're we're, we're waiting. Paul is positively bristling
11:53
with anticipation. And this this is wonderfully
11:55
theatrical, this whole setup, isn't it?
11:57
Yeah. You know, even even how how
12:00
she's posed, slightly leaning into Zargo, slightly turning
12:03
into Zargo. Almost a tableau, isn't it?
12:06
It's a tableau. It's it because she's turned
12:09
into him. It elevates his king.
12:11
It's. Great.
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And she goes, What is it? Do you know what happens to
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vampires when they die? But they don't.
12:16
Die. Do like these dynamics are
12:19
great. They are.
12:20
Yeah, that pouting, that smile. What?
12:27
Look at her. Look.
12:28
Don't you touch me. You.
12:30
Bastard pissed off with you now. And then look, look at Camilla
12:34
now. He's still a bit embarrassed,
12:36
but she goes for. It she is like, that's like, I
12:39
know what's coming and I want it.
12:41
Hiss, hiss. She goes.
12:44
Oh, now what did you call it again, Paul?
12:49
The bulge, the bulge. It's breathing, not bulging.
12:54
Come along. Right we are.
12:55
We are coming close to our major Doctor Who technical
12:58
achievement, I. Just can't wait to find out what
13:00
it is. OK, we're doing the plan now.
13:05
Around here, yeah. So you see that is not his head.
13:08
You see it's it's on a a kind of, he's got that sort of
13:11
headband and it's off the headband.
13:13
It's made to look like it's his. It's his hair.
13:15
It's actually. It's like a sort.
13:17
Of lattice isn't. It Oh yeah, look, you can see
13:19
the sort of the remains of his hair underneath.
13:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a, that's a fashion
13:23
choice, that's. A That's a house.
13:26
It's a designer's choice. I'm not sure he would.
13:29
Have chosen it man oh man, I think it's.
13:34
Meant to be his hair. It's really not.
13:37
I mean, he's got a lovely beard, this fellow.
13:41
What's that man's name? Ivo.
13:43
Ivo, he's got a nice beard. Yeah, look at that.
13:46
Very thick and lustrous. Look, the pen is dropped.
13:50
Yes, an arrow's steel. My God, I've been looking at
13:53
this the whole time, but this is so, so Terrance.
14:00
Yeah, is. Coming up now go on go.
14:04
On no way. I don't want to know this first
14:06
and then I'll tell you about Terrance.
14:09
Major Doctor Who technical achievement coming up here.
14:14
We don't know even listeners. All right.
14:17
OK. Oh.
14:20
Only only ever achieved shots of canine exiting the TARDIS and
14:27
you see it perfectly. Oh that was worth all the build
14:30
up that was. I want to see him going back in.
14:34
And that alone is why state of decay is what it is.
14:39
We've finally seen canine leaving the TARDIS.
14:42
Hazard only seen. Canine leaving at the.
14:46
Top oh watch this look watch how the guards roll over so he can
14:50
get past that I've. Gotta get out of the way for
14:54
canine. It's just magnificent.
14:56
The director goes move to the right whilst you're dead.
15:01
What I was going to say about Terrance was it's so neat, it's
15:06
so well plotted. He's got all the elements in
15:08
place for it all to lock together at the climax and be a
15:11
very satisfying answer. We're coming up to another
15:14
beautiful craving shot in a moment down in in the pits when
15:19
when Orcon is doing his prayer. He's oh great one watch the
15:24
crane shot. It's it's again gorgeous.
15:26
J&T's got all the directors together now.
15:28
Look, only one of you can have the crane this season.
15:31
Muffin's like. It's.
15:35
The only way to make that fucking TARDIS set look in any
15:37
way dynamic. Oh, I do like that show.
15:41
One day you'll apologise to K9. And he does.
15:45
He does. Didn't even the doctor say,
15:48
well, there's ways of dealing with guards, You know, yes, No
15:51
one's got a very high opinion. I mean, I wouldn't want to be a
15:54
guardian, Doctor Who. No, your life expectancy isn't
15:58
great, is it? Terrible shots as well, Paul.
16:01
They're really bad. It's a bit like having a red
16:04
shirt in Star Trek, isn't? It yes.
16:06
Like, like, don't be. Just don't.
16:08
Not good. Not a good career choice.
16:09
At all or if you are going to be a guard and you hear that the
16:13
doctors visited just. Run away.
16:15
Quit. Yeah, quit.
16:18
Run away. These are really good caves
16:19
aren't. They they are good.
16:21
Caves. Well, the lighting's good.
16:22
The lighting is good. Her dress is great in this.
16:25
He was pretending. Look, he said.
16:26
I've got a plan. I'm going to get you out of
16:28
here. Here's your line.
16:30
Here's. Come on now, Paul, will you do
16:33
it for me? I will.
16:35
OK. But I want you to camp it up a
16:38
bit. Come on.
16:38
Oh, OK. OK, No, the time of arising is
16:43
now. Send your servants, my Lord,
16:46
Send the bats. The Tower to the last man.
16:53
Oh, bless him. Oh, here we go.
16:54
Here we go. Here die.
17:02
The purpose of guards. Oh, what a vampire you'd make.
17:07
It's got the same kind of tone and feel to it, like that famous
17:12
line in Bond, right? You know?
17:13
Do you do you expect me to talk? No, Mr. Bond, I expects you to
17:18
die. Dicks was a huge reader of
17:21
Fleming, so I believe that. Yeah, I believe that, yeah.
17:26
Is this the crime shot now? We had it already I.
17:29
Think it's when he actually prays.
17:31
And Paddy Kington, right? He knows what he's scoring
17:34
because he comes in with the organ music.
17:37
Yeah, yeah. I think it goes.
17:41
Away from the organ here, right? This, this, this isn't organ,
17:44
this is the general synth. And then we're back to the organ
17:47
when we're at the peak Gothic. Yeah, I love the fact that you
17:50
go from the science fiction to the gothic science fiction to
17:53
the gothic. It's.
17:54
It's the melt as I keep, as I keep on saying.
17:57
Have I mentioned it before? It's the melding of the two.
18:00
It's the hybrid. It's the perfect tension between
18:03
the two that makes this story. Oh, look, even at the it's the
18:07
chop on the guard's neck. He went, oh, they've got very
18:11
weak neck. So that's what Barry let's
18:13
always used to say, oh, here we go, Revenge for the sun.
18:16
Now if this was the new series episode, that would be a huge
18:18
moment. Yeah, yeah.
18:20
Exactly. You killed my son.
18:23
In fact, if it was the new series I've heard you might even
18:25
have Ivo go to the tower and find his son's corpse or
18:29
something like that. Yeah, go.
18:30
And do that. Yeah, yeah.
18:31
Because. We don't really see Havis's son.
18:35
I'm sorry. Havis's son?
18:36
Ivo's son? Well.
18:37
You said, didn't you? Because Adri, Adri's brought in.
18:41
Take his place. Yeah, doesn't she look great?
18:48
Oh no, Attrick, it's like with the knife.
18:52
Always will is weak. Yes, right.
18:55
So I've heard seize him. I mean, that's that's another
19:01
reason why they get great character actors, right?
19:03
Because they don't get to say seize him on other shows today
19:06
like Doctor. Who they get?
19:09
Fruity lines, Tom, to be fair to him, right?
19:13
He's had a lot of scenes on his own in this and he really, he's
19:16
fine, isn't he? Like he could do it.
19:18
This is the crane shot. Oh.
19:20
Oh, that's brilliant, isn't? It oh look at Camilla again oh
19:23
come on just. Just to do a bit of Christian
19:27
kind of Christian kind of liturgy in, in this, in in the
19:31
Eucharistic prayer. We do this as priests.
19:33
We do the, a posture called Orans, which is basically a
19:38
praise posture, right? And this is like that.
19:40
It's raising your hands up as though you're sort of almost in
19:43
worship. And they're almost in worship,
19:46
aren't they, at this point of their God, who is the great
19:49
vampire? It's it's true, you know, even
19:52
even the, the, the, even the semantics of it is really good
20:01
at this point. The direction here.
20:02
Motha really knows what he's doing.
20:04
Yeah, he tells. I can see why J&T adding back
20:10
quickly. I think after some of his
20:13
attempts later, I would have been like, OK, you've done he's.
20:16
Clearly making the effort here, isn't he?
20:18
Definitely. Oh, look at K9 on the throne.
20:20
On the throne. I'm in charge now.
20:26
Now there is of course, I said earlier about, you know, special
20:30
effects shots don't bother me, but the wall sky ray lollipop
20:34
that goes up into the sky and comes down.
20:36
I mean, it's one time I wish they just did some really good
20:41
lot of work, you know? That that bat is actually
20:46
reversed film. So it's pulled off.
20:49
Then reversed. Yeah, exactly that.
20:51
Oh, now we're doing soft the original series wobbling the
20:55
camera effects. Everybody's no.
20:57
This is this is not wobbling camera.
21:00
This is Quantel. Oh, is it?
21:03
This is early use of Quantel in Doctor Who to shut the screen.
21:08
They may as well have wobbled the camera.
21:09
It still looks like that. Oh, here we go.
21:13
OK it. Really lets it down, doesn't it?
21:15
Does it? Well, it does when you're 51
21:17
years old, Six year old me, let me tell you, I was, we were
21:20
playing Doctor Who in in the playground.
21:22
I the the line, what goes up must come down.
21:25
I must have quoted 100 times in playing Doctor Who in the
21:29
playground. As an idea, it is so exciting,
21:33
isn't it? The vampire hand bursting
21:36
through the floor, the rocket going up.
21:38
And I'll tell you what, if the special effects can't do it,
21:41
Paddy Kingsland is killing it in this scene.
21:44
The tension in this from from from the music.
21:47
This is really touching. Go E face green tinge.
21:50
Very clever. I just love all the down, down,
21:54
down, down. In 2025 that's a bit rubbish,
21:57
but in 1980 that's good, yes. I don't want to sport the moment
22:02
guys, but I have said that a few times.
22:04
He comes, the great one comes, you know, But yeah.
22:10
Yeah, yeah. Look, it's going down.
22:13
There, he's going down. In supplication of great people
22:16
are now I don't know what you 2 are thinking of.
22:18
Good grief. Oh my God.
22:23
Actually, that's quite a nice shot of it going in.
22:25
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
22:28
Oh, look, all you see of him is his hand going.
22:30
Oh. Coming up and down the sense of
22:34
scale. Doesn't.
22:34
It. Yeah, absolutely.
22:36
Coming up now, the make is this Norma Hill.
22:38
I think there's the makeup here. This is.
22:41
Brilliant. This is phenomenal.
22:42
Well, and the carts, so obviously it's various states of
22:46
makeup and it goes from each regular, doesn't it, back to the
22:49
vampires. And then there's a bit where the
22:52
mist goes across the corpses and they go from being people to
22:56
being skulls. It's so well done.
23:00
It's yeah. This is great.
23:02
I mean. Yeah, look at the makeup.
23:03
This is foolish. When they did Nyssa and Tegan,
23:08
as you know, aged them in Morden.
23:09
Undead, Yeah. They should have looked at this
23:12
instead, yeah. It's the look at the eyeballs
23:14
when it goes back. Oh my God.
23:16
And Camilla again, out acting, everybody.
23:20
She's going. I'm having a terrible day.
23:23
Yeah, look at the mist go across now and it's just skulls.
23:26
Yeah. That is a brilliant fate.
23:30
Seriously. Yeah.
23:32
And and to to to be honest if the money was spent on that
23:35
rather than. Yeah, good call.
23:37
Are you happy? With that.
23:39
Good call. Anyway, we don't see enough wall
23:41
skyray lollipops on TV Lollipops.
23:43
Absolutely right. I love those rocket lollies.
23:47
Do you like those? In the summertime?
23:50
I can have two in my mouth and one go, which gets so hot round
23:53
here. But what about lollies?
23:59
Look, I'm being innocent on this call.
24:01
It's you 2 leading me astray, OK?
24:03
You enjoy the juicy goodness. You are not innocent.
24:06
You are so up in front of the magistrate tomorrow after.
24:10
This. Oh, you promise?
24:14
What about the other Darko and the Lords?
24:17
That is great. Now those are the lines I don't
24:22
think bid me put right. You know, that's the lines that
24:24
Dicks brings. Yeah, and he's, he is such a
24:29
witty Ryer. Yeah, and, and I'm going to say
24:33
this, this scene is what then leads to my disappointment with
24:38
Blood Harvest and the story there to bring Zaga back to
24:40
life. Sorry, spoilers if you've not
24:42
read Blood Harvest. It's I just don't think it
24:44
works. I just think I think the mythos
24:47
here of this planet is perfect. And then for 10 sticks to go and
24:51
change it, it doesn't work for me.
24:53
It really doesn't. I mean, they are, they are now
24:55
dead. Is he dead?
24:57
Dead as dead as a very, very dead thing that's been buried
25:01
and the gravestones has been vandalised.
25:03
They're that dead. Deadly tank tops, don't they?
25:07
It's a bit. Like that.
25:08
And you know, let's not go through this.
25:09
It's a bit like Sims Master dying at the end of three and
25:12
then being resurrected in the end of time.
25:14
It's like OK. Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's
25:17
like we're not in the Marvel Universe.
25:19
We don't have to do this. You see them leaping about with
25:23
those electric hands. I think they thought they were
25:25
in the Marvel Universe. Exactly that.
25:30
Oh, Calma, is there any way out of you space doctor?
25:33
Well, he manages it, doesn't it? Because he gets on the Hyperion
25:36
3 so. Ah yes, of course he goes now.
25:40
Your fabulous hair, Calma. Keep it up.
25:42
Your style icon, Sasha. I just get such a weird look.
25:49
He. Looks like a corn Dolly.
25:53
Yeah, that's stubbed on. You're going straight back to
25:56
the star liner that's dubbed on at the end.
26:00
Stay. Well, isn't that fantastic?
26:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ohh, fabulous.
26:04
And what a rousing climax that was, don't you think?
26:09
Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's it's it's
26:10
a super part 4. I don't think there's you know,
26:13
normally in Doctor Who there's an episode that drags right.
26:17
This is this is top notch. Every single episode is is good.
26:22
Yes, episode 2 run that they they have to add a bit more on
26:25
the end. So the cliffhanger isn't isn't
26:27
as satisfying as it's still. Good though.
26:29
Oh. It's still good.
26:30
This is a rollicking story. It's.
26:33
Well, it's because you've got Terence doing it, isn't it?
26:35
It's. Yeah, he, like he remembers to
26:39
make it an adventure, you know, as well as the science lecture.
26:44
Yeah. And I mean, I would like to have
26:46
done a bit more altogether. I know it wasn't a harmonious
26:49
relationship, but sometimes something really good comes out
26:51
of that. Well, well, fellows.
26:54
That's sort of fighting against each other, yeah.
26:56
But sometimes, like creative differences can create something
27:00
artistic, you know? Absolutely.
27:03
Yeah, it's it's it's putting two things in tension to reach a
27:06
synthesis, and this is a synthesis that really works.
27:10
Well, talking about things that work, peace out.
27:15
I mean, I think you should go first as this is a virgin
27:18
territory for you. Our three fabulous things will
27:23
go. Peter, Paul, me.
27:24
All right, so then you guys can nick all the best stuff first.
27:29
OK, so the first thing is, and I've spoken about it quite a
27:32
bit, but it is, it is the law that Terrence Dix creates here
27:37
and adds to his Gallifrey law, right?
27:40
Because because most of the Gallifrey law is Terrence Dicks.
27:45
It's it's the war games, it's the three Doctors, it's bits of
27:48
robot, it's five Doctors. It's this right?
27:51
He, he, he, he adds to what we know about Gallifrey and the
27:56
Time Lords and and and so on and, and vampires in Doctor Who
28:01
should not work, right? If this had been back in 3-4
28:08
seasons previously, there's a sense that it's almost been
28:11
shoehorned in on the back of what haven't we've done yet in
28:15
the Gothic, right? We've done Frankenstein, we've
28:17
done this. Let's do a bit of Dracula,
28:19
right? And it would just feel there.
28:22
But here, here blended with with bid needs sort of sci-fi stuff
28:26
and attention there, it really works.
28:28
It really adds to our understanding of of the Time
28:31
Lords as being about life and and eternity.
28:36
And it's a very different type of eternity for the vampires.
28:39
We we didn't really explore that a lot in in the commentary, but
28:42
there's there's some really deep stuff that Dix is trying to do
28:46
here. And then bid me goes.
28:47
I love that. Let me put a bit of my entropy
28:49
stuff on top of it as well. And it it it that just works
28:52
really well. So, so the law adding here that
28:55
Terrence Diggs gives us, that's my #1.
28:57
Oh, it's an interesting. That's an interesting
29:00
juxtaposition, isn't it? Between the vampires, which will
29:04
stay young forever, and the entropy where you are just
29:08
decaying all the time? I mean, there probably is more
29:12
they could have done with that. If you think about it, right, so
29:14
the Time Lords grow old and then renew, right?
29:18
So they are subject to entropy, right?
29:22
But they renew again, so they defeat entropy in that way.
29:26
But the vampire stays static. At a point in their decay, they
29:32
are literally in a state of. Decay this is.
29:36
This is so clever. It really is clever.
29:39
There's so much to, to mine there and get into, you know,
29:43
the, the, the, the, the planets in a state of, of decay, the
29:48
cultures in a state of decay, but, but vampires themselves are
29:51
in a, a constant state of decay. It's it's fascinating and it's
29:56
fascinating. And as to what it, you know, not
29:58
to go too deep and I did talk about, you know, the unfolding
30:01
text and blah, blah, blah. But what does it say about us?
30:03
How does it help us? Good, all good literature is
30:07
about us. It's about it's about exploring
30:09
the human condition. And I wonder whether, you know,
30:14
a good vampire story should actually help us explore what it
30:17
means to be to not be moving on from the point of death where we
30:23
are. I think the fear of death is a
30:26
massive subject of study and is here in 18 because he's pushing
30:31
back all year. And yeah, it's a coming.
30:34
It's a coming, Paul. Right.
30:37
I'd like to cast my vote for and you won't hear this very often
30:41
for Peace and Moffett, because I do actually think he makes a
30:47
fair fist of this. He's got some absolutely great
30:52
shot. I mean, he's helped by the
30:53
design and the costumes, but he does do some really nice stuff,
30:57
like the bit when they're all sort of pirouetting around each
31:00
other and the all the location works really good.
31:07
And like the, the scene where you've got Orkon and the bats in
31:11
episode 1, when the bats fly in, you know, he's, he's really
31:15
giving it some thought. And I think, you know, later on
31:20
he's just doing it by numbers. But I I think he did really,
31:24
really good job on. This razor McGregor will be
31:26
punching the air. You know, he's a strong
31:28
proponent, madly for Peter Moffett.
31:30
But well, my first one then is going to be countless inhabiting
31:37
planets all waiting to feed a hunger.
31:40
Rachel Davis as Camilla, man on man.
31:42
I mean, she's having the best time out of all of them playing
31:45
a vampire. And if poor Ozargo is a bit
31:48
embarrassed by all of this, I don't know if I want this on my
31:50
CV. No, Rachel Davis is there
31:53
bearing her teeth and hissing away and literally biting
31:59
planets in the back of scenes and things.
32:01
She's just wonderful. I I think she's scarier as well
32:05
for, for really pushing it and and going for that sort of
32:08
predatory, even her body language right when her her
32:12
hands are up like talons. I think she's wonderful.
32:15
It's operatic, but it's great. Second one for me, second one
32:23
from for me. Then is, is the design work and
32:28
the visual effects in this right?
32:31
So you know, it's mid season. You, you spend a bit of money at
32:35
the start. You know, those, those, those
32:38
that, that sort of our goal, our goal list sort of set and the,
32:43
the, the ships landing and going off on on there and, and there's
32:47
some money clearly spent on Meg loss.
32:49
So God knows what anything on that.
32:52
And and and there can be a sense that mid season you kind of
32:55
you're kind of budgeting a bit for the end as you get as you
32:58
get through almost a thing. But actually from from those
33:03
opening throne room shop, which just goes up and gives us the
33:06
sense of majesty, but also just like the shot of the tower and
33:11
the village, it works the the experimentation with Quantel on
33:17
that shuddering, right. But then with it, those sets the
33:23
you know, you think it's a castle, but no, look closer.
33:26
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's actually rusted metal.
33:29
It's oxidizing metal. But everything's dressed well.
33:32
Joe, you talked about the cobwebs.
33:35
Now you see them. It's just art.
33:37
It's, it's, it's, it's beautiful.
33:39
It's been put on screen beautifully.
33:42
There's been some real thought put into the execution.
33:44
I think that's true of pretty much every story this year.
33:47
Unusually for Doctor Who, I think J&T's got his eye on the
33:51
production values. I'm not sure he always starts
33:54
going forward. But anyway, Paul.
33:56
Right. I'd like to put for my second
33:59
thing is I think I'm correct in saying the costumes were done by
34:02
Amy Roberts. And I think the costumes in this
34:06
are absolutely it's superb. They're really lavish.
34:10
They look expensive and it's it's doing what the BBC does
34:13
best. It's doing a pit work.
34:14
It's essentially a period please, isn't it?
34:17
So I think the just well, maybe not Mr. Kimber's hair.
34:21
Now we're we let that go. We.
34:24
Talked about it a lot, you know, if you've got some attention.
34:27
But I mean, the costumes for the free that rule are absolutely,
34:33
it's brilliant that, you know, they just look really lush and
34:37
plush and brilliant. The thing is, is they can, they
34:41
can't really, the special effects, like you say, they're
34:45
as good as they're going to be, but they can't really put money
34:49
on the screen via special effects.
34:50
But they can put money on the screen with the costumes because
34:53
the BBC has got all of those costumes from all those other
34:56
shows. Yeah, that's a great cool.
34:59
My second is going to be a, a very small scene.
35:03
The you are wonderful. I once worked in the Bureau of
35:06
Ancient Records scene between Tom and Lala because that's the
35:10
Tom and Lala I loved in season 17 that were blissfully in love
35:14
with each other. And you're right, Peter, you did
35:16
chart all the scenes. You can clearly see where
35:19
they're talking and where they're not.
35:20
They are just bewitched by each other in that scene and it beams
35:25
off the screen and it's there's not often you'll see a
35:27
relationship on the screen, which is something that's
35:32
clearly happening off the screen, but there it is really
35:35
obvious and kind of beautiful. I just love those scenes in the
35:38
cell. Brilliant.
35:40
My third thing is what goes up must come down.
35:44
I don't mean don't mean your favorite prop of the entire
35:49
thing. The thing I don't mean that.
35:51
What I mean is the script is papered with literary and sort
35:58
of cultural illusions to Earth, right?
36:03
And, and the, you know, the stuff that we thought we talked
36:05
about, there's stuff, there's references to Plato, there's
36:08
reference to, to Brothers Grimm. We've got, we've got other
36:12
stuff, we've got stuff from Alexander Popes essay on man
36:17
when, when they say whatever is, is, is right, right.
36:21
That's just basic sort of 17th century philosophy.
36:25
But you know, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's
36:27
references to, to Macbeth in episode 4, you know, but, but
36:31
screw your courage on to the sticking place and will not
36:34
fail, right? That's Macbeth.
36:37
And, and I don't think that is just sort of, oh, that's a nice
36:41
line. We're going to steal it.
36:42
I think this is deliberate. This is this is whether it's
36:46
Dicks or big media, we don't know.
36:48
I think it's it's a blend of of them.
36:50
But again, this is to to the entropy theme.
36:52
These are people from Earth. This is a culture that has been
36:56
lost. And again, you know, coming back
37:00
to my point about, you know, stories tell us about ourselves
37:04
right in the midst of being forced to, to lose all the
37:09
scientific stuff, like Ivo's got his little receive and so on.
37:12
He's, he's fighting against this, he's fighting to keep
37:15
science alive. But it's not just science, it's
37:18
culture, it's, it's history. In, in, in, in, in German
37:23
language, we've got this, this word called heimat.
37:27
And it means my home, but not just my home physically.
37:30
It's people, it's culture, it's history.
37:33
That's story, and this is about a group of group of people whose
37:38
story has been taken away from them, but actually the story is
37:43
who they are. And that thing at the end, will
37:45
we all be able to get out of East space to get back, to be
37:47
part of that bigger story, part of the Earth?
37:51
This is this is a deep story. This is really, really clever.
37:55
There's so much to get into. That's my #3.
37:58
Oh, that was fabulous. Thank you.
38:01
Oh right, my number 3 has got to be Uncle Terence himself.
38:07
Of course. I mean, thank God for Uncle
38:10
Terence. I mean, it's an absolutely
38:12
fantastic script. It doesn't let up the whole way
38:15
through. There's always something new
38:17
happening. There's always something else
38:18
going on. OK, that might be a bit of
38:21
Christopher bid me putting in the scientific stuff, but
38:24
Terence has got all the all the all the funny 1 liners in there.
38:27
He's got all the gags in there. And thank God for Terence.
38:30
So he insisted it be kept medieval because I think it
38:33
would really lose something had it all been sort of futuristic.
38:37
Or something. Wasn't it about eggs?
38:39
Birthing things. And stuff, yes, yeah.
38:42
So I mean, thank God for Terence and it's in really.
38:46
It's just a shame they didn't have him back more often because
38:49
experience counts, you know, this is a man who wrote, rewrote
38:53
a lot of the 70s stories. He knew how to do a damn good
38:57
doctor story, so. The trouble with J&T idea of we
39:02
don't want the old hands, we want new writers is you'll find
39:05
then you need to find new writers are as good as the old
39:07
hands and nine times that they couldn't do it.
39:11
But, but like Terence, he, he could do something in the new
39:15
style of the program because the script editor was guiding him
39:18
and and so he produced something for that period.
39:23
And if you're a good writer, why don't you Why?
39:25
If you got good writers, there's a reason they're used again and
39:28
again and again is because they're good.
39:32
But then I do wonder if, like, you know, half of J&T's
39:35
decision, I think he was a good producer, but I think half his
39:38
decisions were ego driven rather than creative decisions, you
39:42
know, Yeah. And I don't think he really had
39:44
a sense of story or narrative, did he?
39:47
All the script editors said that he was good at putting the money
39:49
on the screen. But.
39:51
If I said that Dick said rude things about Christopher H, bid
39:54
me the things he said about J&T, well, maybe they're not for this
39:57
call. He couldn't produce his way out
40:03
of a paper bag, I think was one of them.
40:06
Well, my last one then is I love the score to this and I love the
40:15
score for this season from Peter Howe and Paddy Kingsland.
40:19
I think that is a fresh approach to music and Doctor Who.
40:23
It feels dated because synth music does feel dated now.
40:27
But in terms of musicality, I think it's pushing Doctor Who in
40:32
a whole new direction. Especially when you're getting
40:34
stuff like Warriors Gate and Kinder where it's that weird,
40:38
dreamlike sort of music that you're doing.
40:40
Like Dudley was fantastic, but he couldn't do that sort of
40:43
thing. He had a style and he kind of
40:45
stuck to it. And I think here we're we're
40:48
seeing fresh, innovative music and this is it's it's like a
40:53
weird fusion of the science and the gothic as well.
40:57
It's got the sense of the operatic to it, especially in
41:00
the climax, but it does feel like a science fiction score as
41:04
well. So I think even the even the
41:06
scores in on the tone or the hybridized tone of this story,
41:12
it's just fabulous this. Did we answer the the the most
41:17
important question as to who has the best beard?
41:21
Oh boy. Well, my votes go into Ivo.
41:28
Well, my votes going to Sargo because look at the.
41:30
World. Of course it is.
41:33
Of course it is, Peter. Oh, that's 2 to one.
41:37
Never. Ever anybody else?
41:40
He's got it's all sort of curled around like pyro beard, isn't
41:43
it? Yeah, absolutely.
41:44
It's waxing. You know, if you put you, you
41:47
should not, he should not get too close to those candles
41:49
because it's all going to go up. Well, he's a vampire as well.
41:53
That could be very awkward. Well, we always told him his
41:57
sense of style would Polish him off eventually.
42:01
Wow fellas, thank you so much. What a joy that story was to
42:04
talk about. You know what question I'm going
42:07
to ask next, don't you? We've already determined, but
42:10
where the hell are we going next to have our next threesome?
42:16
Go on then, Pete are you? Give it away, my friend.
42:19
I've forgotten what we said. Oh, no, no, I remember what we
42:21
said. Yeah, I remember what we said.
42:24
We are going to a story that is famously bland and basically has
42:33
nothing for Joe to make any jokes about.
42:36
Ladies and gentlemen, the next time the three who Drew will
42:40
assemble, reassemble will be for the creature from the pit.
42:44
I have been the one who drools watching that one.
42:46
Jesus Christ, yes, and now I think that will be a really
42:51
intriguing one actually, because, you know, famously not
42:54
scary, but I'll be interested to get your opinion of watching it
42:59
as a child and and what came out of that.
43:03
And just again, I think there's more going on beneath the
43:06
surface in Creature from the pit than we are led to believe.
43:10
Well, do you know what? I'm going to ask one question.
43:12
I don't I I usually do this when people are new on and this is
43:15
only if you do want people to know.
43:18
Peter, where can people find you online?
43:20
It's the first time I can ask you.
43:21
So I'm very boring. You can find me on X or Twitter
43:24
or whatever it's called these days.
43:26
Please find me. Just go for Peter.
43:28
Old PETEROULD like my name. You'll find me there.
43:32
I'm mainly horrendously writer centre politics with some Doctor
43:36
Who can follow, lots of fun Doctor Who people and so on.
43:39
And I don't really do a lot of podcasting or blogging these
43:44
days or so on. So yeah, just if you want
43:47
someone to shout out, you can follow me there.
43:50
I'm Paul. Right, you can find me on if you
43:54
just search my name on Twitter or X on there.
43:57
I'm also on Blue Sky and also I mean, I'll do some shameless
44:03
self promotion. I've done what's in the box with
44:08
a lovely gym. I've done a couple of nostalgia
44:12
tours and I'm soon going to be on with Toby for happy times and
44:16
places. What you doing?
44:19
What story am I doing? Yeah, well, because my choice,
44:23
all the all classic series are gone.
44:25
So I basically want somebody to do a Shooty Gatwell 1.
44:28
So I'm doing Lucky Day. Oh, I love lucky day.
44:34
Oh, wonderful. But I'm like peace.
44:38
Paul doesn't want everyone shouting at him.
44:40
All right, And everyone always shouts at me anyway, fellas,
44:46
thank you so much. This has been a lovely freesome.
44:48
I think we've got got some fun adventures to have a hit.
44:51
I think so too. I absolutely loved it this
44:53
evening. It's been an absolute pleasure,
44:55
Joe. Thank you for having me on.
44:56
Well, until we head to the planet Chlorus, to the the best
45:01
looking artificial jungle you're ever going to see in Doctor Who,
45:04
fellas, thank you very much. Thank you.
45:07
Goodnight.