Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Lucy, Daniel & David about their choice of Planet of Evil (3/4)

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Talks to Lucy, Daniel & David about their choice of Planet of Evil (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt penknife the Doctor Who
• 0:43
  commentary podcast you join us. Just as the doctor has fallen
• 0:46
  down a large black coal and been frozen in the process of doing.
• 0:53
  So in another thrilling Cliffhanger from Planet of evil.
• 0:57
  Mmm. So we should just start the
• 1:01
  episode. I think it maybe talk a bit more
• 1:03
  about the episode, it's time that we did the last time
• 1:07
  because a lot has been happening behind the scenes.
• 1:08
  So we Sorenson has increased getting increasingly pickup and
• 1:12
  strange. The doctor has told the crew in
• 1:17
  no uncertain terms that they can't take any antimatter off
• 1:20
  the planet because it would destroy the universe and he has
• 1:23
  gone to try and be an intermediary with the antimatter
• 1:26
  beasts, which is pulled him into a hole.
• 1:29
  And Sarah is a hostage. So, there's lots going on.
• 1:32
  Wonderful summation, thank you. Okay.
• 1:37
  So, Joe as you're in charge, during the charism in charge
• 1:42
  good grief, you flatter me, okay?
• 1:44
  It's plates four, three, two, let's go.
• 1:52
  So, I suppose, at some point, we do need to talk.
• 1:54
  We usually end up talking about title sequences how, and where
• 1:57
  does this stand in people's favorite title sequences.
• 2:04
  It terrified me as a kid really? Yes, I was it.
• 2:08
  What? I was almost Overjoyed when I
• 2:11
  saw the first episode of the Leisure Hive and it was the
• 2:15
  music was well and you know, there's the Stars.
• 2:19
  Yeah, but as a kid as a yeah, as a kid I was it was very scary
• 2:24
  and Tom's face, you know, looming out of the of the of the
• 2:28
  tunnel and the the sting at the end of the episode.
• 2:32
  In fact, even when I hear that, Sting now and I'm not expecting
• 2:35
  to hear it. Still, you know, the hairs on
• 2:37
  the back of my neck stand up. It's like, oh it's, you know, it
• 2:41
  I'm taking back to South 80 times in the 1970s but yeah,
• 2:45
  it's great fun Dave, sorry and at I think it's the best type of
• 2:51
  sequence. I don't think it's my favorite.
• 2:54
  My favorite one probably just because I grew up with Sylvester
• 2:58
  McCoy. Is tail, sequence of always got
• 2:59
  a soft spot for that, but this is that's one is timeless in its
• 3:03
  Scott, you know, the classic tune over, and I think it's the
• 3:06
  best one, right? And Joe, I know you have a very
• 3:09
  soft spot for the original. I love the original my favorite,
• 3:13
  but I think visually this might be the best because I can't
• 3:17
  quite figure out how they did it.
• 3:19
  You know, when it goes that sort of organic, I thought I can't
• 3:22
  see what they use. Like with the 80s one you know
• 3:26
  they're doing electronic effects first one, they're throwing
• 3:30
  light on a wall or whatever the I just can't figure out how they
• 3:33
  I did it. First one was, was plugging a
• 3:36
  monitor into itself, wasn't it? And it made this sort of get
• 3:39
  made this or feedback loop. But yeah, my favorite one is the
• 3:45
  Davidson here, A1 partly. Because that's when I first
• 3:47
  really started watching it and also because I absolutely love
• 3:50
  that version of the theme tune, that's my favorite.
• 3:54
  So And see, Sarah saying the doctor can't be dead in Sorenson
• 3:58
  saying he cease to exist. We need to launch.
• 4:01
  Oh dear. This is all.
• 4:04
  I mean the man is clearly not well apart from anything else.
• 4:08
  It is twitching again. Yeah, he's got that.
• 4:12
  A sort of putting his hand to his head.
• 4:14
  Yes. Yeah and it's getting watches.
• 4:16
  Whatever it is, is getting worse.
• 4:18
  You know, you knew was a bit Shifty to start with, but when
• 4:20
  he started saying things like this is the most important
• 4:23
  thing, this will save the universe.
• 4:25
  Verse, it's worth more than people's lives.
• 4:27
  Yeah, I love the finest air has
• 4:39
  sneaked off without nobody noticing.
• 4:41
  Hmm. Yeah.
• 4:42
  I got again, that Sarah taking the initiative rather than just
• 4:45
  sort of, you know, and if she goes to, yeah, to try and
• 4:49
  rescue, because quite a few times, she sort of thinking, oh,
• 4:53
  no, the doctors dead. And But if she never gives up
• 4:57
  hope I think that's why white people rate US so well is that
• 5:01
  she's she's not a Tegan sort of wanting to go back to the Tardis
• 5:07
  or or not wanting to be there at all.
• 5:10
  She's she's lucky, she's Shield. She doesn't care if she makes a
• 5:15
  mistake but she just will do whatever she can to help her
• 5:18
  best friend. What is going on here in the
• 5:22
  antimatter Universe? This go by the looks of it.
• 5:26
  Now we know what, he's got a little scarf because I imagined
• 5:29
  to do this, oh my God. Yeah, it's all on Kirby was,
• 5:31
  isn't it? And I imagine that, you know, he
• 5:34
  would have you wouldn't want well before the days of health
• 5:38
  and safety. It reminds me of the scenes in
• 5:42
  Inferno when he's going to the wall Universe.
• 5:45
  Yeah. But but pertwee's gurning always
• 5:50
  kind of puts me off a little bit.
• 5:52
  Whereas Tom when Tom's in agony when he, you know, he's really
• 5:56
  good at playing being penguin Agony or in or in Terror.
• 6:00
  He's really, really convincing as a shortstop animals as well.
• 6:05
  They can infer know. There's obviously the big one,
• 6:07
  but he's shooting up twin tunnels.
• 6:15
  So what's the idea though? Is it The if any part of the
• 6:20
  antimatter leaves, the planet, the planet will destroy the
• 6:24
  universe. It's alright.
• 6:26
  It's I think it's the antimatter that will destroy the universe
• 6:29
  because the planet, it's the opposite.
• 6:32
  The antimatter is the opposite of matter.
• 6:34
  And if, if antimatter is taken into a universe, that's composed
• 6:38
  of matter, it will destroy it. However, we know that Sorenson
• 6:45
  is already got his This thermos flask, which I was slightly
• 6:49
  disappointed wasn't Tarleton given that it was the 70s and so
• 6:55
  the yeah he's he's up to no good.
• 7:00
  He's clearly out slow good right now.
• 7:01
  Look at him. I think that we'll see which is
• 7:05
  really good. As when he spoiler alert tones
• 7:07
  in the Andaman, totally changes, his physical movements as well.
• 7:13
  There's a steel and his leg twists in mid air because and
• 7:18
  you hear the sound effect and yeah, it's yeah, it really is a
• 7:22
  brilliant. It's a brilliant physical
• 7:24
  performance as well as from the point of view of sort of the
• 7:27
  emotional acting of it. It's really good.
• 7:29
  Physical performance. It's because he's you could
• 7:31
  believe that he's really unwell but you don't quite know what,
• 7:34
  you don't realize the extent to which he's, you know, old mad
• 7:39
  scientists. You know, the strange stuff
• 7:40
  happening on the planet. Everything's gone a bit wrong.
• 7:44
  But then when you realize what's actually happening to him, it
• 7:47
  gets much much scarier very quickly what he becomes like
• 7:50
  this. Slavering Beast of a man doesn't
• 7:53
  even yeah, or a bald, you know, I gotta tell ya right?
• 7:56
  There's been a colored in the past and I've been single, you
• 7:58
  know, I've been on the app Grindr and you get a picture of
• 8:02
  some of a nice bit of scruff looking like Professor Sorenson.
• 8:05
  Then what turns up at the door is what it looks like an episode
• 8:08
  for terrified. Just gave me a bit more on that
• 8:13
  level so Jewel but it's time. It's one of my bunk beds about
• 8:33
  because I only because we read it when I was doing my a-levels
• 8:37
  Jekyll and Hyde, the the point about Heidi is that there's
• 8:40
  something subtle, there's something wrong about him.
• 8:42
  When people look at him, they immediately get the impression
• 8:45
  that there's something wrong, but they don't, they can't put
• 8:48
  their finger on what he is. So he's not this great, big
• 8:50
  hairy anti man type thing. He's this he's he's actually
• 8:56
  quite small, but whenever people see him, they get this
• 8:59
  impression. Action of sort of a very evil
• 9:00
  and of wrongness but I'm doing it anyway.
• 9:05
  Yes, here we go, good night. They love doing Jekyll and Hyde,
• 9:07
  I can think of wrong. I did a, I did a suffering
• 9:12
  Voyager episode on one of my other podcast and a date, which
• 9:14
  is the doctor becoming mr. Hyde, and boy, it was camp and
• 9:18
  ridiculous. And really tell this is a much
• 9:21
  better version though. Yeah, of course, he's all right,
• 9:24
  he's clearly something is really really wrong with him, isn't it?
• 9:29
  But yeah, the The Star Trek original series Jekyll and Hyde
• 9:31
  where Kirk gets split in two by the the transporter beaming and
• 9:35
  you can tell which one's the baddies because he's sweaty and
• 9:37
  has very heavy eyeliner well and the piano music goes mad every
• 9:41
  time. Yeah I do oh here we go with the
• 9:48
  eyes. I will face easternmost.
• 9:53
  Hello? I had an argument with a couple
• 9:55
  of people the other day. That's how will I thought?
• 9:56
  This special effect was amazing with the painted eyes on the
• 10:00
  eyebrows? I'm not sure.
• 10:04
  It's, I think it's quite distinctive.
• 10:06
  I think it works. I think it works better.
• 10:22
  So when it happens, it's kind of old.
• 10:23
  And then it's, but then it's gone again.
• 10:25
  So you have you haven't had a chance to sort of, sort of look
• 10:29
  at it for a long time. And maybe think I can see the
• 10:32
  Edges there because it's a because it's gone quickly.
• 10:41
  It's better than they did with the fendall defend elk or an
• 10:47
  image of the fender and cassia in the keeper truck and where
• 10:51
  they paint the things on the right, on their eyelids as a
• 10:55
  small, see the same thing. Hey, I thought I thought the
• 10:58
  fender whole thing was partly that she was turning into sort
• 11:01
  of an image that It wasn't supposed to be kind of the
• 11:06
  painting on the eyelids was like her turning into a statue.
• 11:08
  I don't know. Okay.
• 11:10
  Yes. But you could it does hurt my
• 11:13
  eyes. Yeah, he's always, but that, but
• 11:15
  then I thought it was like a sort of, you know, those the
• 11:19
  Greek minoan sculptures were, they've got very big ugly eyes
• 11:22
  looking lies like that. I mean, that's a wonderful when
• 11:25
  you can get away with anything in my eyes.
• 11:28
  She's very when she smiles. It's very freaky, it's very
• 11:31
  creepy when She smiles because she's, you know, it's Wanda
• 11:35
  ventham, is she plays quite a sort of serious character, whose
• 11:39
  Cuts, or quite sort of harassed and stressed and then when you
• 11:42
  see a smile, it's really really creepy as a cassia and The
• 11:47
  Keeper at Rock and she's so over-the-top.
• 11:49
  I absolutely love her. Oh, don't look.
• 11:52
  Not my eyes. We taking off.
• 11:58
  No. I've been dumped.
• 12:04
  What's wrong about the little tennis or what the 10 and it
• 12:10
  says something like, how else do you think, brokered the deal?
• 12:15
  So, he's been allowed to go back with this time, the way they all
• 12:18
  just dump the done. I did wasn't sure why you put it
• 12:21
  in the I think perhaps he was going to throw it into the hole
• 12:25
  afterwards. Sorry, here we go with holes
• 12:27
  again. I thought I thought maybe that
• 12:29
  after he was ejected he was going to.
• 12:31
  That was yeah. The deals like I'm going to,
• 12:34
  I've got this, I'm bringing in this as a sign of my as a sign
• 12:38
  that I'm that I'm taking you seriously, throw it and then
• 12:40
  throw it afterwards. But he didn't a bit of direction
• 12:43
  there when they're running down the corridor, then the camera
• 12:45
  swings around and blurs scary watching that earlier on in the
• 12:54
  episode as well. That was a bit weird Sarah run
• 12:56
  through the forest and the camera with this one.
• 12:58
  Shot was right through the forest before, it's the so good.
• 13:03
  You guys said earlier, about this split-level, say it means
• 13:05
  you can kind of shoot up, doesn't it?
• 13:07
  So you got. Yes.
• 13:08
  Yeah, different levels. Lots to look at and it gives
• 13:12
  more of a sense of it as a, as an interior space.
• 13:15
  And it's got a ceiling, which is great.
• 13:17
  But what they don't know is that there's still antimatter on the
• 13:21
  ship. Yes.
• 13:22
  Y'all got a question to ask her mind if I take over for one sec?
• 13:24
  No, but do because though, I've lost control completely sir.
• 13:27
  Hey, do you guys think that this is Michael?
• 13:32
  Wishes like least impressive role in the series.
• 13:41
  Okay, just this is small as role, I think it's is least
• 13:46
  important role. Oh, there he goes, oh, the way
• 13:51
  that the hell's the the torture and then it sort of has a little
• 13:56
  bit of lens flare on the, the camera there as quite, that's
• 13:59
  quite well done. This the hunched over Shadow as
• 14:04
  well just for a second to see. So you can you sort of seeing it
• 14:07
  but not seeing it. The Husky humans work.
• 14:12
  Well, they're not human zajac. Leave - trans-lux really
• 14:14
  effective. Unlike said Kwanzaa, is it no
• 14:18
  time? Last, we are pulled out, just
• 14:20
  Falls in a heap in a. Oh, you remind me so much why I
• 14:28
  love eighties Doctor, Who do what you think is Michael wishes
• 14:33
  best performance said Dave. David Ross.
• 14:37
  Hmm, Daniel's just absolutely superb.
• 14:40
  Stuff Rose. I'll make up being not as good.
• 14:42
  A lawyer is very, very good. Don't get me wrong.
• 14:45
  He's also excellent. But Make-a-Wish holes just
• 14:49
  Untouched Lucy? Yeah I think so definitely
• 14:52
  davros because it's the main role.
• 14:54
  It's a main it's an antagonist to the doctor.
• 14:56
  So in the other roles he plays he's always good and sort of
• 15:01
  convincingly does what he can with it.
• 15:03
  But it's not davros is is a main part and he acting within that
• 15:08
  extraordinary makeup and the constraints of having to sit
• 15:15
  absolutely still and only act with your voice.
• 15:18
  The lower part of your face. Any good?
• 15:21
  God, he does. It really well.
• 15:23
  Yeah, I mean, I like him. I like him as a supporting
• 15:27
  character, as well as one of sort of lupton's little bunch of
• 15:30
  losers. The all those sad little men in
• 15:34
  the hin planet of the spiders, they really are, are they?
• 15:38
  I've I'm going to be a bit contrary now because I think
• 15:42
  it's my favorite time of his is karlik in carnival monsters,
• 15:46
  awfully dry. And He's so funny.
• 15:49
  It delivers the best line really offering in all of folks who
• 15:52
  when he just goes Bravo, wait, wait goes horribly wrong.
• 15:57
  He's, he's such a good actor. Those are me.
• 15:59
  Yeah. What do you think, Daniel?
• 16:04
  I mean, I've got to say davros as well because it's just such a
• 16:07
  good performance. I mean, it's not, it's so well
• 16:11
  written. It's so well, it's so well.
• 16:15
  Thought out, as you say he's been, he's, it's an act.
• 16:18
  Who's really thought it through that, he his face is not going
• 16:22
  to be seen. So, you know, there's the famous
• 16:24
  story about how he how we, you know, turned up rehearsals with
• 16:28
  a paper bag. This is the quickest funeral on
• 16:32
  on-screen tractors there and it gives it a bit more.
• 16:39
  Believability that the society. I love the fact that he says.
• 16:44
  So what denomination was rarely and he's the restaurant
• 16:47
  orthodox. And then he says well we have to
• 16:50
  play the last rites. We don't have to listen to him,
• 16:52
  that's a great line that is right.
• 16:55
  Yeah. It's very cynical and very sort
• 16:58
  of you know we've been in this point we've been on this ship
• 17:01
  for months and I'm fed up and I'm going to just do one of
• 17:03
  those. Yeah we also found out earlier
• 17:07
  on that they want oxygen Believers.
• 17:09
  Yes it all comes out the Tardis and now it's an oxygen.
• 17:12
  Be very bitter who oxygen on. So they It just helps to sell
• 17:18
  their alien - yeah. And the idea that they have a
• 17:21
  procedure for burying people in space, because of course, they
• 17:24
  do, including the rights for whichever religion.
• 17:28
  They happened to belong to. Yeah, that's terrifying.
• 17:31
  Just shooting out the coffee in space.
• 17:34
  Well, when you think how many coffins they must be floating
• 17:37
  around out there and there's a load of old rubbish in space if
• 17:42
  we ever do land on Mars, they'll be a sign saying please take
• 17:44
  your little I'm with you, Sarah collapses because he says it's
• 17:48
  clean and tidy. She just goes, is horrible.
• 17:51
  Yeah. It's always nice to come to her
• 17:53
  reaction isn't it is a reaction in so free of pyramids of Mars,
• 17:58
  where the doctors really cold and unfeeling about Lawrence
• 18:02
  Coleman's. Death hold, isn't she?
• 18:06
  She does have that touch of humanity.
• 18:11
  Oh, he's yeah. Sorensen's trying to blame the
• 18:16
  doctor again, which he had done for the from the beginning.
• 18:19
  It's a bus out of control, isn't it?
• 18:20
  He's seems It's tries to blame somebody else.
• 18:24
  Yeah. Did you ever consider that?
• 18:25
  But a now he's a now. The doctors found found a way in
• 18:28
  he's saying did you ever considered that?
• 18:30
  You might be wrong. Hmm.
• 18:32
  And clearly he's never considered that.
• 18:33
  He might be wrong and doctors trying to the doctors trying to
• 18:37
  sort of get under his under his skin, a bit and say, oh, did you
• 18:41
  now Not think that you might be doing you ever consider that you
• 18:43
  might be wrong and he clearly hasn't ever thought that and
• 18:47
  actually, he's gone too far but we but they don't know.
• 18:49
  That always catching me on any minute now that boss as well
• 18:55
  that blames everybody else for their own ineptitude.
• 18:58
  Yeah. Well he's he's just trying to
• 19:00
  eat its self-defense. He's trying to get them blamed
• 19:04
  for what he's doing and he knows he's doing it because he knows
• 19:07
  he just changed from the, the anti man back into himself
• 19:11
  again. So he's pushing it as far as he
• 19:13
  can on to these strangers to get suspicion away from himself.
• 19:24
  I'm absorbed. I'm sorry guys I'm just watching
• 19:27
  it won't stretch any further since the doctor but I think
• 19:34
  visual isn't it? Yes.
• 19:36
  Yeah like okay you pull a piece of elastic, you can't get away
• 19:39
  and he's very calm. Tom if it was Pertwee he'd be
• 19:42
  pulling his hair out and sound would be off, you stupid fools.
• 19:46
  I've told you that and you know, and harder would have just Given
• 19:50
  up. I think Holly Baker would have
• 19:52
  grabbed a gumball now. Yeah, but the fact that he's
• 19:55
  being so calm makes it more because you because he's
• 19:59
  absolutely serious. Yes, and the calmness is like
• 20:03
  those things, there's no point in shouting.
• 20:05
  I've been through that and come out the other side, and this is,
• 20:08
  and this in ski is now like okay, the boss has really lost
• 20:12
  it. Now, I can see that.
• 20:17
  I'm going to have to take him on visible world.
• 20:20
  Other than invisibly, he knows his success at this point to
• 20:23
  make it doesn't, he like series 12 hours?
• 20:26
  Are you all right? Nobody's know.
• 20:29
  So he kind of knows he's doing a good job under the audience has
• 20:32
  taken to him. So I think he's really
• 20:35
  delivering this point. I hate Fillmore this all the way
• 20:42
  through they filmed from sontaran experiment, all the way
• 20:47
  through. Series season 12 and then zygons
• 20:53
  pyramids of Mars and this and then the Android version.
• 20:56
  I think they had a break then before they did brain of
• 20:59
  morbius. And they did about a good 12, 12
• 21:04
  months, continuous filming probably a break for Christmas.
• 21:09
  And I think when they film pyramids of Mars, probe, this
• 21:12
  Laden have flu, so they but she still sort of turned up for
• 21:17
  work. So So again all that time that
• 21:21
  they're still they're still giving it their all there was a
• 21:24
  bit you said, just now Daniel with these with these leg
• 21:27
  twisting. Yes, sir.
• 21:28
  Yeah. Back into the subject.
• 21:30
  Yes. Oh no, look.
• 21:32
  That the heart is about to buy it.
• 21:34
  That's the police. He looks terrified when he gets
• 21:36
  killed. Yeah, I mean it's a little
• 21:38
  scary. Yeah.
• 21:40
  Peace. You know what's really?
• 21:42
  Yeah, is the sound effects? All you can hear is this?
• 21:46
  Yeah, it's always sorry. It just it's not it's not take
• 21:50
  Mills doing the sound effects. This little special sound it's
• 21:54
  Peter hell, right? Yeah.
• 21:57
  And notice that. On the credits also responsible
• 22:00
  for my favorite version of the theme tune.
• 22:01
  Thank you. P Tau f.
• 22:03
  One of the best soundtracks with them in the in the two of the
• 22:07
  best soundtracks Leisure Hive and five doctors.
• 22:10
  These are our we do worries gate as well.
• 22:14
  I think so. Yeah, I totally forgot about
• 22:16
  this when I watched it the other day but alms just punched
• 22:21
  Playing as Hancock. It's and and all he does it.
• 22:25
  It's easy to do but I totally forgot.
• 22:26
  Any does it? He's pretty violent in 13.
• 22:30
  He has a fuel to go, Sara was in trouble, and he had the downhill
• 22:34
  putt. So, yeah.
• 22:35
  Absolutely, he does and he does that for Sarah, but if that was
• 22:40
  Colin Baker, people will be using that as an argument
• 22:43
  against the character, whereas we've just used it as a defense
• 22:47
  for the fourth doctor. But when Colin Baker's character
• 22:50
  is violent, people say? Well, this is everything that's
• 22:52
  wrong with the program, you know?
• 22:55
  Yeah. I think it does it.
• 22:56
  We're going no worries. Hero is off to save his friend.
• 23:01
  He's forgotten feet kujan like I do after you train for that.
• 23:07
  I let that just know. I think she's helped me.
• 23:13
  I think child me would have enjoyed that but adult migas
• 23:16
  goes. I'll give you a rest really or
• 23:19
  the Aikido? Yes, I'm all disturbed by the
• 23:22
  fact that you Sarah Walsh in a week so he's are changes color
• 23:25
  every two seconds. Or he used to Peru.
• 23:31
  Yep, there is no, no. He spilled his thermos, you
• 23:34
  know. It looks like blood, doesn't it?
• 23:36
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:37
  That's quite that's quite disturbing.
• 23:41
  Did I just do Tommy, get shot in the chest?
• 23:43
  Yes, you did said, yeah, he was stunned by pretty Sam Cooke.
• 23:47
  That's your that means we must be at the cliff.
• 23:49
  I got this story shooting party is this eat.
• 23:52
  So he's there's lots of action in it.
• 23:54
  Hmm, lots of atmosphere. Yes, I am.
• 23:59
  I mean this is I've got the lights on in here, but you put
• 24:02
  the lights off when you watch this as I'm not sure.
• 24:05
  I'm assuming you do that a Christmas joke?
• 24:07
  Yeah. Just to get this tree lights.
• 24:08
  Yeah, it's creepy as hell. Yeah.
• 24:11
  It's I think that's what was this transmitted in about
• 24:14
  October or something. So it was about the plane
• 24:18
  painful. Lighten up.
• 24:22
  I'll tell you the thing about this Cliffhanger is I think it's
• 24:24
  a great Cliffhanger of them, like your knee.
• 24:26
  As you seek are no, don't pull the lever there off, but the
• 24:29
  resolution is something terrible was like, well that's just
• 24:33
  getting back. Come on like yeah, but Virginia
• 24:36
  sufficient skis turned now has me completely.
• 24:39
  He's openly saying no, you can't do that.
• 24:42
  That's you have no evidence, that's ridiculous.
• 24:44
  So, he's happy right? - yeah, yeah, that's that's the
• 24:47
  most often clearest. Carlos Alomar, is that because
• 24:51
  he won't obey the order. He makes him do it as a, yes.
• 24:54
  Ossining down onto the thing. Yeah.
• 24:57
  We'll look at that. It's kind of, its kind of like
• 25:01
  when I said about the beginning, when I said about, perhaps that
• 25:04
  sort of role being done, more successfully and others, I was
• 25:07
  thinking of hindle in Kinder where he goes, he's clearly
• 25:15
  loses his mind. But at the beginning, it's there
• 25:18
  already with the sort of the old you've got Richard towards who's
• 25:21
  the older experienced Soldier. Who's like, no ticking them off
• 25:26
  for not doing things by the book.
• 25:27
  But Hindu is, he's the sort of, he's not sure of himself, but he
• 25:33
  wants to be, and he wants to be in charge and he wants to know
• 25:36
  to be to be proper Soldier and and then just goes completely
• 25:41
  has the complete breakdown and I think people Lucy know exactly
• 25:45
  when people. But I think there's some of the,
• 25:47
  this sort of some of that in there is somebody who's
• 25:50
  completely beyond their capabilities totally, and is.
• 25:56
  And it's done. Perhaps a little bit.
• 25:59
  And also there's the bloke in Warriors gate who is an older
• 26:02
  man in charge of the ship, but who hasn't got anything, except
• 26:07
  we have to follow procedure, we have to do, we have to do
• 26:10
  something, we have to get something done and that's all.
• 26:12
  He's got, it's nice but it's kind of that's it.
• 26:27
  With this person who's got nothing behind procedures, I
• 26:32
  love the father. Everyone said that once in your
• 26:34
  life.