Latest / The Curve / Weight Loss Wars, Trust Fund Tantrums, & Working Till 70.

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Weight Loss Wars, Trust Fund Tantrums, & Working Till 70. · The Curve

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Welcome to the Curve Weekly, the podcast that keeps you up to date with all of the money
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business and stock market too.
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Brought to you by the Curve's research team, it's the latest insights on what's happening
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in the stock market, companies, other money related news so that you can stay educated and
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ahead of the curve.
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You can thank us later for sounding smarter than those finance bros you need to know, Patti.
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Oh wow, we have had an interesting turn of events, have we now?
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Right now, there's two blonde Sophie's in the studio.
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We are missing Victoria Harris, so Vickers on a Greek island right now, she's living
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her best holiday life.
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And actually I said to her, please take a break, like don't feel like you need to do the
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podcast.
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She's like, no, no, I'm always looking at funnieres.
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Oh my god, just saw one brand, it's not funny.
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But anyway, we woke up this morning and had this message from her on Slack, which is
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new for us, actually, I'm loving Slack, side note, yep.
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And she was like, guys, there's no internet, there's no power, it's all crumbling and I was
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like, okay, shit, well, like I can't pretend to have read the news, so like how are we going
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to do this?
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And then I thought, then go, we have a very smart Sophie, not me, in the office with us
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at the moment.
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So this is someone you, Sophie Gowell, thank you so much for joining me and also thank
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you for being so open to it, because I seriously, when I floated the idea, I was like, there's
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a very high chance that she's not keen and if she's not, I don't know how I'm going
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to do this by myself.
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So thank you.
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I mean, I'm shutting myself, I don't even know if you can, you're going to definitely say
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shitting.
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Okay, well, shutting myself.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Well, everyone listening, they can't and you know, this is her first podcast, they can't
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end.
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I think so, if I'm doing a stunning job.
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Thank you.
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Now, context, we have a gorgeous little office that we love in East London and in it is
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our little curved team and one of the parts of our team is a CFO, like a financial
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kind of director, someone that's keeping it over all of our books and how we're spending
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and planning and looking at the business as a whole, road strategy, all that jazz, yes.
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And so Sophie works with Tom and they're both across all of our business finances.
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And so when I thought, only ship balls, who will I be getting on the podcast, you know,
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not a total side step to get someone that's somewhat worth a bit of a side step.
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I'm like, huge caveat disclaimer on this bit of a side step anyway.
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So, so it was like to me before, now, look, I know that you under the impression that
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I did the same job as a Vic in the financial industry and I just need you to know I did
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the complete opposite.
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And this is not my experience and I'm not as across the markets as Vic and I was like,
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okay, it's so classic that I just thought you can renew your offer now to have me on
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the podcast.
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No, it's more like, it's just funny that my perception of what the finance industry is
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is that there's kind of one job and that's what Vic did.
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Yeah, because I don't have experience, I don't know what all the jobs are.
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I understand.
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Like, I wouldn't even know like all the jobs that exist in, you know, the media, digital
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podcasting industry, you know, it's crazy.
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So maybe we should just before we get into what's been happening in the news and running
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you through like all of the main headlines we're going to talk about.
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Can we just give some color and we can keep it reasonably high level?
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But like, what your role has been up until this point, like the types of jobs you've
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worked in completely.
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So different to Vic and when she's like investing and working for a fund, I kind of work slightly
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more on the other side, typically with private companies who just want to do things in the
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financial markets.
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They might want to raise some money or they might want to sell as a company so they might
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be selling to a bigger buyer or maybe they want to buy a company or they want to figure
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out strategic growth.
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So my role has kind of been helping with all of those aspects.
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Sometimes it has been public companies but most of the time it's private.
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Okay, amazing.
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Great context, great context.
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Now, one of the things that we are going to speak about is tariffs and what's been going
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on globally and yeah, we've obviously spoken about this a lot on the podcast.
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Yeah.
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But why are we bringing it up?
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What's the new hot take?
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Well, I think it's like super important timing because it's August 1st, which was essentially
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the deadline for Trump.
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Yeah.
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So I don't know.
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It's super complicated.
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It hasn't only been like three months since all this happened.
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Oh God.
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It was in like February, April, but this is the thing and I think this is why it's so confusing
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and like a lot of the companies are confused and fair play to them because there's been
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so many revisions and there's been so many changes of deadlines and like different amounts
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of tariffs being imposed.
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So basically it's really confusing.
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But I think the big date was kind of 1st of August was his deadline to like give the
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final tariff numbers and I believe they're actually going to be starting to be imposed
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on August 7th.
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So like come into effect.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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For some reason, because we've been talking about this for so long and everyone's like,
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it's making goods 150% more expensive in this country, I kind of just assumed it would
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already be happening, but it's obviously not.
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Well, I think the flaw on effects like into the economy happening because I think it
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just really scared everyone straight away.
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Everyone like thought that the new tariffs coming into play would like completely slow
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down growth and lead to high inflation.
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Which is kind of like a 1% tariff rise would cut growth by like 0.1% and conversely raise
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inflation by 0.1%.
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Right.
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So almost by working on a tariff, it's going to have but opposite impact on inflation.
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That was kind of the idea that yeah, the US is almost making more money on their taxes,
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but it's raising inflation by a similar percentage.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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It's so hard to think about inflation because there was a time really when that was just
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like so front of mind for all of us completely.
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So that's like what everyone thought would happen, but it hasn't really played out that
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way.
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So kind of what actually has happened is that like the tariffs increased significantly.
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So basically they would like 2.5% before and now I think they're in an average of 15%.
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Is this tariffs?
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Yeah.
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This is like what Trump creates.
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They will have to see.
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Yeah.
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So like what he's proposing is pretty significant.
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And I think for a lot of the countries, so for example, the UK, it's 10% on goods.
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But then there are other countries where he's whacking like 50% on, like I think Brazil's
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50%, which is crazy.
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So that's why like probably an average is about 15%.
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Got you.
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You know, overall.
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I think a couple of things why essentially this whole scenario with the tariffs isn't playing
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out as predicted today.
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It's one is that the US dollar was already overvalued, which prompted foreign investors
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to kind of stop investing.
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So like reduce exposure and invest elsewhere.
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And then also the tariffs prompted countries to kind of reform and diversify trade away
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from the US.
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But when you say diversifying, do you mean people and like retail investors are not putting
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as much money in the US?
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And that's why it's like, I think that, but I'd also set a larger level as people like
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foreign investors investing their money into the US.
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So maybe that's like US based companies, they're not putting their money in there as much.
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OK.
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But wouldn't that have a negative impact on the US?
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Yes.
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So here's why essentially what's been offsetting the damage, like why that hasn't happened.
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So sorry.
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So the OIC.
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So your pointers, that in isolation would definitely have impacted inflation and they would be,
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it would be way worse.
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Yes.
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But there's a reason why it has its, OK, got you.
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And I think like one of those is the AI boom or just general tech boom, like which we've
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seen in the past couple of days with like Nvidia surging, Microsoft surging, like all
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time record highs, they're like doing pretty well for the US.
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And that's like largely related to AI.
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So big tech is now expected to spend like 350 billion on AI infrastructure in 2025.
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So that's probably things like data centers and stuff to get AI running.
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So basically it's the idea it's similar to I guess like a diversified investing portfolio
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where some things can go wrong and really badly.
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But if you've got something that are doing well, it can offset it.
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And so right now, because so many of the massive companies that are doing really well
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are based in the US, it's propping up the economy in a way that supports the other stuff
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that's less ideal.
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I think that's a great way to put it.
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And I think the tech boom, like there are the huge giant players, as we said, your likes
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of Microsoft and Nvidia, but they're also like a lot of small businesses that are riding
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this wave as well.
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So it's just kind of like a mass market type of thing.
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It's so interesting to think back to when AI first kind of started becoming a topic.
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I mean, it was really, it's only been in the last year properly that this has started
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to become well for me anyway, so before front of mine.
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But when it first came out, I was so scared and I was so like, I don't want to be a part
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of it.
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And now I actually think it's just so problematic to be opting out.
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And I think from like an ethics standpoint, I know I fully understand the idea of wanting
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to opt out, but I feel like the negative, and I don't know if this is totally my opinion,
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this might not be right at all.
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But yeah, I have this feeling like by woman opting out of using AI or feeling freaked
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out by it or not wanting to get involved, it's just going to exacerbate that inequality
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is so much more, because we can't stop like us not using AI or not interacting with
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it, is not going to stop it taking over and being a huge part of our lives completely.
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And I think like we were having this conversation before in the office, we were saying that AI
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is machine learning.
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So someone has to build those machines and then they learn based off information that
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already exists in the market.
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If you've got essentially males doing both of those two things and woman opting out
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of AI, the entire market, our economy is just economy, it's just going to be like completely
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driven from a male's perspective, completely biased.
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That's a really good way to explain it.
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It's just as simple as it learns and gets better on what it's fed.
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And if it was born by a man and then brought up as a toddler by a man, exactly.
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Think about the lack of perspective that it has or the just inherent bias.
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And there was actually this really interesting Instagram post that someone sent through.
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And it was basically talking about the idea that AI or robots essentially think that woman
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should be paid 83% of what men are and that's purely because it's learning what exists
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already.
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I know.
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So yeah, I guess it's like just making sure that yeah, you're starting to learn or like
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understand it and it's the same with the internet.
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You could have at the time thought, oh my gosh, this is terrifying.
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Think of all the jobs that are going to be lost.
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What is my job going to be if I don't have to go into the supermarket as a supermarket
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job?
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There was so much restructuring globally as the internet became ingrained in our lives.
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But there's so many other amazing opportunities that have come out of it and you kind of have
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to just like, I don't know, even if you don't want to ride the wave, you're going to be
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on it anyway.
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So you can't beat them.
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Join them.
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Yeah.
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So going back to inflation, wrapping that up is the whole AI boom and then there are
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probably like two other key reasons why inflation hasn't surged as predicted.
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One of those reasons is because Trump imposed tax cuts.
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So essentially this helps firms to absorb the higher costs that might come with the tariffs
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they don't have to like flow on those effects to us as consumers.
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So the tax cuts were for companies, right, not for not for individuals.
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So the idea was if these businesses are having to pay more because of the tariffs, they're
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getting a relief around taxes, which means that it's not pushing up inflation for
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consumers.
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Exactly.
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Oh my God, do I understand the economy?
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I know.
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Sorry.
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That was really important.
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That is wild that I understand that.
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I know.
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I wonder how many people listening have listened to the curve for a while and also kind of
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put those together or if I'm just really smart, you're really smart.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So it makes a lot of sense.
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Yeah.
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It means that like the whole impact isn't just flowing to the consumer and pushing up
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inflation.
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I know this is really toxic and bad, but I sort of wanted to see all of this blow up in
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his face.
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I know.
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And the fact that it's not, I'm kind of like, I think it's still put though, maybe I think
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it's still good.
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It's stunning.
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Maybe France.
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I mean, not that I God, that sounds so bad, but I don't know.
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I feel like, you know, there was so much conversation around like Trump has a hero economic
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experience business experience, blah, blah, blah, blah, how is he going to run a country?
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But then, yeah, and when this came out, it was like so absurd, what a total idiot, blah,
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blah, blah.
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Yeah.
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To now think that we're looking at it like, okay, so actually the US is going to probably
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be benefiting hugely from terrorists and therefore like actually really financially strong.
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I'm kind of like, I know.
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I don't know if I love it.
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No, neither.
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So I think to wrap it up nicely is that essentially it's really complex, the economy is complex,
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tariffs are complex.
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And I know that Trump's had a lot of air time, but we might not want to give him too much
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credit because I think potentially the huge downfalls that we expected to happen, maybe
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haven't happened, due to like other external factors around the economy, global dynamics,
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etc.
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So let's not give him too much credit just yet.
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Really happy with them.
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Mm-hmm.
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Love it.
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So the thing we're going to talk about, I reckon this will be sounding so weird for people
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not like that I know what we're talking about, but right now we are going to talk about
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Novo Nordisk, yes.
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And this is, do you know what, I'm not super fascinated by this particular company, but
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I am very fascinated by this industry at large.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so for those who don't know, Novo Nordisk is the company that created Ozympic.
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Exactly.
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Which was what, like a year and a half ago now?
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Yeah.
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I think it was maybe like 2022, 23.
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September, I think it was around that time, September 23.
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I remember thinking, of course, like of course this is happening.
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Yeah.
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I mean, we just make so much money out of making people feel shit about themselves and
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like they need to change what they look like and...
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100%.
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And I think we've had such, like a negative trend.
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I think there was a huge spike in the whole body positivity movement around kind of,
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I don't know, like 2018, 2019.
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And I almost since then think we've regressed back to this kind of whole, like, diet, culture,
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skinny core, really interesting fact actually, is that in 2021, the diet industry was worth
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190 Bill.
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Today, only four years later, worth 330, so huge in grace.
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So nearly, nearly double.
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Yeah, nearly.
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Maybe like 40%.
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Disgusting.
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I know.
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And who knows the exact kind of reason for that?
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Probably it is the rise of these drugs, like a Zimperk.
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Other ones is like AI increase, everything's so perfect these days and it's like such.
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That is such a good point.
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The idea that we see fake people and so people want to look like them.
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Like I think we get fed more fake content these days than we do of real people that are
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like, you know, into the whole body positivity movement.
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It's not just like saturates our feeds.
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There's so much stuff on this.
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I feel like we could do an entire episode on 100%.
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It's, yeah, it's such a concern.
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But what's happening with this company?
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Because they were doing really well.
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Yeah, okay.
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So they were doing really well because Zimperk was kind of like the kingpin in the market,
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right?
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It was the only option for people.
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So novo Nordisk were thriving, essentially.
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So they were like the first out of the gate.
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It's one of the, like, the Uber of taxis, but in this lift and all these other
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random ones that have popped up.
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But the main player or the first one to market was in this case for the weight loss drug,
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novo Nordisk.
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Yeah.
16:04
Yeah.
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So essentially the makers of Zimperk, novo Nordisk, suffered a huge like one day full
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on record.
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Basically their share price fell 23% in one day.
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Got that.
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It's a huge amount in one day, huge amount, one fifth of its market cap.
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So that equates like 52 billion that the company lost in one day.
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Good Lord.
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And when we say they lost it or like we talk about the value of a company, it's of their
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market capitalization.
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And that's pretty simple.
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It's just essentially how many shares are there in a company and how much they worth.
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So if we look at it like a slice of cake, it's like how much is the entire cake worth
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in value and how much does each slice of cake?
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Like how much would you pay for that essentially?
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Yeah.
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And so a market cat is like, let's say someone would buy a cake for $40.
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Yeah.
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The whole cake.
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One day, but then they lose heaps of value and it goes down value by 23% just like this
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company does.
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I don't even know what 23% less of 40% is, but let's say it's like $23.
17:08
Yeah.
17:09
And then all of a sudden the whole cake is actually only worth $23 because people aren't
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willing to pay what they used to be for the amount for each of those slices of cake.
17:17
Exactly.
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Because someone's decided it's not worth that anymore.
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Exactly.
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So essentially two slices of cake like the value of what each slice is worth has also gone
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down.
17:28
Yes.
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You as a investor.
17:30
Yes.
17:31
And so what are the reasons that this company lost so, so much?
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Essentially a few days ago they released like their market guidance for the rest of the
17:40
year and that basically was terrible.
17:43
And as market guidance almost like their prediction of how well they think they're going
17:46
to do.
17:47
Yeah.
17:48
Exactly.
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So essentially they released that a few days ago and it was less than ideal.
18:00
So is that mainly to do with shitloads of competitors?
18:04
I think there's a couple of reasons.
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So I think that is a really key one.
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So they essentially became the most like valuable listed company in Europe.
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Actually after the launch of their first drug we got V and then I think Ozympic came
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after that.
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And also had a new CEO come in which apparently like it was someone they promoted internally
18:24
and investors were a little bit like Ho Han about it.
18:27
And I think there's a couple of reasons.
18:29
I think this guy had done these clinical results for a new drug that Novo Nordeska wanted
18:34
to release and the results went great and apparently he doesn't have market experience
18:39
in the US.
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So when they're trying to.
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So terrible hire.
18:42
Yeah.
18:43
I don't know if it's the best.
18:44
If they're trying to be massive in the US and that's their growth market, isn't that
18:47
really important?
18:48
No, you'd think so.
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And then I think also people were just pretty keen for a fresh perspective.
18:54
So wanted someone external to come in and kind of, you know, live in the place up a
18:59
little bit.
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So I think an internal hire was pretty underwhelming.
19:02
Right.
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So they've basically lost 40 to 60% of their value since 2024.
19:08
Yeah.
19:09
Which is enormous.
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And it puts, as I was saying before, they were once one of like Europe's.
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I think they were like the largest company.
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And I mean, they're still, they're still pretty large, but they've fallen below the likes
19:22
of kind of fashion giants like Louis Vuitton and Hermes.
19:26
Who have been doing terribly?
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Like it's not as though it's falling behind people that are doing well.
19:32
It's actually kind of a bit of a fall from Grace, isn't it?
19:35
Completely.
19:36
Eek.
19:37
Yeah.
19:38
Do you know what?
19:39
Again, I'm like relishing and it doing shit because I don't want to see a world where
19:44
we all look the same and inject ourselves to lose weight if we don't need it, if it's
19:50
purely for aesthetic reasons.
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100%.
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But it doesn't, it sounds almost like the industry, there's still so much money to be made.
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It's just the fact that it's shifted off this one business and kind of spread out with
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its competitors, which is not ideal.
20:03
Completely.
20:04
And I think they're like really capitalizing on those trends, like the Y2K trend of everyone
20:08
being skinny again and following that.
20:10
Yes.
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And the office before something about the fashion show or like, oh, yes.
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So essentially, I think like the whole Y2K trend in general with like things like fashion
20:22
and, you know, that coming back with that has brought the rise of like the skinny trend.
20:26
And that was evident.
20:27
I think it was this year's Paris Fashion Week.
20:30
They brought back kind of the like anorexic looking models, which I think is just some
20:35
ball look of like, yeah, but it's just like so boring if everyone's bodies look the
20:40
same.
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And if you can pay for it, it's kind of, I don't know, I feel like maybe this is a really
20:46
walk perception, but everyone idolized, you know, such flat stomachs and so much unhealthy
20:54
looking skinny woman, right, like we're just walking coat hangers.
20:58
Yeah.
20:59
And with that comes, I'm sorry, but like eating disorders, like you, not that many people
21:03
are naturally thin in that way, you know, it's like most of us aren't completely flat stomached
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because that's where your food and organs are.
21:12
Yeah.
21:13
And that's normal, you know, but I think, and so it's just this weird thing where it's like,
21:18
okay, so now you can pay for weight loss drugs, but in a way, so in a way, I would have
21:24
thought it almost takes the, not the glamourization, but it's so much easier now.
21:29
Like, what do you mean?
21:30
So it means that completely.
21:31
So then why is it still a trend?
21:33
It's like, normally the trend is the thing that, you know, like not that many people can
21:35
keep up with or it's exactly, like I think it's become normalized.
21:39
It's almost become, I don't want to say easy because that sounds awful, but it puts everyone
21:44
more of like a level playing field.
21:47
Yeah.
21:48
But hopefully because of that, then we're going to see the trend reverse.
21:51
Yeah.
21:52
And like maybe, well, really hopefully this won't actually last that long.
21:55
I hope so.
21:56
But, yeah, I mean, this is definitely a company for me, and like I think it's interesting,
22:01
you know, Vic often talks about the idea of investing and like what you want to see grow
22:07
and what you want to see, like do really well, because, you know, even if I could make
22:10
lots of money, a, this company or any of the weight loss drug companies, I don't want
22:15
to invest in it.
22:16
And I know what that could be saying.
22:17
I could hear her in my head saying, you're invested on the S&P 500, you're invested
22:22
on the S&P 500, but it's more like I wouldn't actively choose to have much of my money
22:26
with them.
22:27
You're putting your money where your mouth is.
22:28
Yeah.
22:29
Where your morals lie.
22:30
Yeah.
22:31
This next one, like, it's quite funny because, you know, obviously I'm having to be an
22:34
active participant in this week's Curve Weekly, what we're talking about.
22:37
So so for now, we're talking about what we're going to talk about.
22:40
And this was one of the research, like, pieces that Vic did, and we were looking through
22:44
it and we were like, is this also interesting?
22:47
And so if he was like, no, I think there's definitely something that we need to talk about
22:50
with this.
22:51
It's basically the idea that in Denmark, the pension age or like the retirement age has
22:56
been raised to 70, which is really quite old.
23:02
I know.
23:03
It really does, especially when you think of people, not that many people even make it
23:07
to 80.
23:08
So just saying that you get 10, not even 10 years of your life where you're not working.
23:11
But then I think probably Denmark, maybe it's based on pernation, because Denmark's
23:15
like a pretty healthy nation, you know, like, I think you're 120 and you're like, yeah,
23:19
they've got it.
23:20
I imagine if that was your like, imagine if you're like, I'm a Dane, I'm a Dane, I'm
23:23
a great Dane.
23:27
So yeah, so what is happening there and what's changing?
23:30
What does this mean?
23:31
Because I think the main reason that we're going to bring this up, like not only to talk
23:34
about what's going on, but actually also to speak about what it means and how you think
23:38
about the idea of retirement, because it is so far away that people are like, nah,
23:43
I've got nothing, not interested, but it is important.
23:46
Yeah, it's definitely important.
23:48
Essentially Denmark just raised their retirement age 270.
23:53
I think what's important to note though is like, yeah, they've made that decision.
23:56
It's not actually coming into effect for another 15 years though.
23:59
So they're like, you know, pass the bill or whatever.
24:03
It's like the tear of three months later, you know, it's just 15 years.
24:06
Yeah.
24:07
But I think for us, it shows that there's going to be a trend that other countries are
24:11
going to follow suit.
24:13
But also if you look globally, like New Zealand is 65.
24:16
Yeah.
24:17
And the UK is 67.
24:19
And I think there's like expectations that that's going to go up to like 68 by 2040.
24:24
So yeah, everyone is obviously starting to trend older.
24:27
This isn't just like Denmark decided to make it way older.
24:30
I think probably in 20 years time, the inverted comma retirement age will probably be 70,
24:35
right?
24:36
Rather than younger.
24:37
Exactly.
24:38
Because we're all living longer.
24:39
100%.
24:40
I was going to say it's not like a revolutionary concept that people are living longer.
24:43
Like this has been trending for ages.
24:45
You know, with New Age medicine and access, so on as all the good stuff.
24:51
Yeah.
24:52
So like bluntly, people are living longer and therefore people have the ability to be working
24:57
longer.
24:58
Where the issue was coming in kind of with the economics is that there were concerns
25:02
that like the cost of state pension could spiral out of control.
25:07
And that's because the taxpayer pays for the pension.
25:11
And this is so something I actually fully forget about.
25:16
Yeah.
25:17
Like the fact that your taxes are going towards funding old people, which means that the
25:21
whole, which is why the whole like dying populations really, oh, sorry, not replenishing
25:26
the new populations really concerning, right?
25:28
Because if you don't have young people that are being taxed to fund people later in
25:34
life, is that the whole cycle that is dangerous?
25:37
So essentially, if we kept the retirement age, let's just say it's the same.
25:41
65, but more people are living past that more people are going on to the pension, but
25:47
the same amount that's being earned is the same or like the same amount that's being
25:50
taxed effectively.
25:52
Right.
25:53
So they basically needed to like rejig the numbers.
25:56
So there's not more people like eating all of that money, essentially.
26:00
Well, I guess because also like you can't tell them they need less money.
26:04
No, exactly.
26:05
You just have to tax more.
26:06
Yeah.
26:07
But that's just so really hard.
26:08
Yeah.
26:09
I really don't envy economists.
26:10
It would be so hard to be trying to manipulate the economy in a way to make it best for
26:16
everyone.
26:17
It's so complex.
26:18
And I was going to say I think what plays into that as well is a bit more of like a fairness
26:21
aspect because it's like effectively if you're going to live for longer, you should work
26:27
and therefore contribute in the form of taxes for longer because you're actually going
26:32
to be the one to benefit through a pension.
26:34
It is such an interesting point and what I kind of hadn't joined the dots on.
26:38
So it's the idea that like particularly because there's less young people coming up to
26:43
support it, you need older people working longer.
26:47
Yeah, exactly.
26:48
I also just in general think it's quite beneficial because I think it's pretty sad like 65.
26:53
I don't I don't think that's that old like I think people have so much still to give
26:57
to society at an old like you look at some of like, well, I mean you look at some of
27:02
the world leaders, but also some of the like CEOs of our largest companies in the world
27:06
and they're like well into their 70s and 80s.
27:08
So it just shows I think there's at the moment with our retirement age being younger,
27:14
it kind of gives people this inherent like you're not valued if you're, you know, beyond
27:19
a certain age.
27:20
It's almost like you'll pass your use by day and we know how many you which is so not
27:24
true.
27:25
Yeah.
27:26
So I think this has actually really been official in general like not just economically
27:29
but for kind of motivation of people working.
27:32
Also, you can still access your money earlier like I know in Australia, even though retirement
27:39
age is like 67, you can access your super pension at 55.
27:43
So it's not to say that all of a sudden you need to be, yeah, I don't know, I guess my
27:48
point is like they're not trying to like, if you over, not at all, if anything, it's like
27:54
we want you to be contributing to society and like being a part of it, but in those
27:58
people who will be listening and I think also the counter argument here, which is what
28:02
that has brought up before is people who do like hard labor, like if you're doing a physical
28:07
job, 65 might be like you're like crawling to 65 because your body is giving out.
28:13
And I think that's where it's really hard because some people don't earn money sitting behind
28:17
a desk.
28:18
Not.
28:19
And it's true.
28:20
Like the older you get the harder that is on your body if you're completely like doing
28:24
road works or anything that involves like quite a lot of agility.
28:28
I don't know.
28:29
I think that it's a different, I don't know, I have no idea if like that's what governments
28:33
think about in terms of different types of jobs, but if you can't sidestep into something
28:38
because all you have experienced and it's like a trade, yeah, but your body is giving
28:42
out.
28:43
Like that's that is hard.
28:44
Pretty nice.
28:45
Perhaps they haven't increased this until the point where like generally people that
28:50
sit into you are still okay, I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't want to be doing
28:56
really physical day labor at 70.
29:00
One of the things that Soif and I were talking about in the office when we were looking
29:03
at the story and we were thinking about it, we were talking about the idea of like how
29:07
do you know what enough is, like how do you know how much you need to choose to not work
29:14
because like these numbers that we're talking about is like, you know, it's almost the government
29:17
age.
29:18
Yeah, but the idea of investing and what we're trying to teach is that you have control
29:22
to choose when you do this, like if you invest or you're clever with your money, you
29:27
actually, I mean, you could retire by 40 if you wanted to.
29:30
Exactly.
29:31
And also I think the word retiring is a bit shit because it's like a lot of people stop
29:35
working in the capacity of I'm doing this to earn money, but continue doing like philanthropic
29:39
work or doing things that are still helping society, it's just, you know, it's the idea
29:44
not relying on your paycheck week to week, you've got enough assets and money behind you
29:48
to kind of live whatever life it is that you want to live.
29:52
Exactly.
29:53
And I think that's such a cool point around like maybe one of the reasons you want to
29:56
grow your wealth is so you can effectively retire from like your salary earning job and
30:00
contribute to societies in another way.
30:03
So I think the importance of deciding like when you want to retire and what type of life
30:08
you want to have is really important when it relates to investing because obviously investing
30:13
is compound growth.
30:15
So you can grow that over time, but if it just, if that money just sits in a bank account,
30:19
it's just being eroded by inflation.
30:21
So you're essentially just doing yourself no favors.
30:24
And I think that it's, yeah, I mean, there's obviously a massive piece that we could do
30:27
an entire episode on like how to figure out what your lifestyle should be or what you
30:32
want your lifestyle to be and then how do you work backwards in terms of how much you
30:36
should invest and we speak about that a lot actually in our investing course and in the
30:41
investing club.
30:42
If anyone is interested in diving into that, let us know.
30:44
But also maybe the can I can plan an episode on that because I do think that almost having
30:49
your number and then knowing when you want to be stopping working for your paycheck is
30:54
such a motivating thing to have in the back of your head, right?
30:56
Like if you don't have your job or if like you have something else you want to do
31:00
or whatever exactly.
31:01
I think just like knowing what you're investing towards rather than just feeling like you're
31:05
kind of throwing all this money into the stock market or into investments with no real
31:09
end in sight or goal.
31:11
I think for me I'm just like I'm such a goal person, like I can see myself getting close
31:16
to my emergency fund amount or whatever I get such a kick out of it.
31:20
And I think when it comes to then like long term, it's the same thing that you definitely
31:25
need to be like knowing what you're working towards.
31:29
Exactly.
31:30
Okay, a really basic example, let's just say someone is earning 45,000 a year and they're
31:36
investing, say like 500 a month, the difference.
31:40
If you were saving versus investing is like exponential, for example, super basic like market
31:47
return of 8%.
31:48
If you were to just whack that in a savings account, by the time you're 70, 500 a month,
31:53
500 a month, by the time you're 70, like 240,000.
31:58
Which if you're earning 45,000 a year is like you've got five and a half years.
32:03
So like you'd better die by your 75, or like for another month or your lifestyle.
32:07
Yeah, but if you were to invest that, again, at a super, super basic level, you'd have
32:14
like 1.6 mil.
32:16
Yeah, which sounds weirdly scary than 200 and 40%.
32:19
That's honestly those numbers are wild.
32:21
But that's enough to rely on without your pension, probably.
32:25
Yeah, or it would be, yeah.
32:27
Okay, I love that.
32:28
Yeah, and for anyone that wants to learn about investing or like have some stock ideas,
32:32
because like 8% obviously is great, and it's definitely consistent.
32:35
But you can also do better than that, and if you look at some of the stocks and things
32:39
that we've looked at in the club, it's like incredible, the return.
32:42
So I think, you know, there's definitely ways of fast tracking, but at an absolute base
32:47
level, you want to understand how much you can be investing regularly and how much that
32:51
grows to.
32:52
Yeah, 100%.
32:53
Quite it would be devastating to get to, right, time to hang my boots up, and you realise
32:59
you actually have to like quarter the way that you live in terms of how much you spend
33:03
every year, because you actually will run out of money in three years, four years time.
33:08
I know.
33:09
It's so scary.
33:10
That is scary, but I genuinely think that's most people.
33:12
And there's the highest like homelessness, right, is like woman over 50.
33:17
Oh, yeah.
33:18
And it makes sense.
33:19
Yeah.
33:20
A lot of us do with obviously relationship breakdowns, but I mean, okay, guys, this is a really
33:24
good segue.
33:25
So, so so.
33:26
Basically, there's this couple, their names are Simon Intwistle, Intwistle.
33:32
Okay.
33:33
He's a 42 year old like trader, yeah, Ginny Halleywell, so she's like a wealthy kind of trust
33:39
on maybe.
33:40
That sounds like Ginger Spice.
33:41
It does a very.
33:42
It does.
33:43
Ginny Halley, yeah, you're right.
33:44
It's not Ginger Spice.
33:45
It's not Ginger Spice.
33:46
I don't know.
33:47
So she's super wealthy.
33:48
She's worth about 65 million.
33:51
Wow.
33:52
So huge.
33:53
Yeah.
33:54
We want to be Ginny.
33:55
Yeah.
33:56
She, okay, actually, in all honesty, she's totally like not self-made.
34:01
So this is like inheritance.
34:03
Okay.
34:04
So Ginny was not investing.
34:05
Let's just say.
34:06
Absolutely not investing.
34:07
But so the two met in like 2015, yeah.
34:10
They got married a year later and they had this absolutely lavish wedding, so it was
34:16
like 500,000.
34:17
They got married in Paris and Ginny's dad paid for it all and then they lived like
34:23
a four and a half million dollar property in Dubai, which again was given by Ginny's
34:28
dad.
34:29
Okay.
34:30
So there's a bit of a theme here, obviously.
34:31
Yeah.
34:32
Like it wasn't as though Simon's trading career was taking off and, you know, affording the
34:36
luxury lifestyle.
34:37
Maybe Simon wasn't contributing heaps to this.
34:40
No.
34:41
But like, you never know.
34:42
Maybe he was a fun guy.
34:43
Yeah.
34:44
Okay.
34:45
Anyway, basically what happened was they divorced in 2022.
34:47
They were married for six years and there's this whole public situation going down where
34:52
on the day of their wedding, Simon signed a prenup that was kind of driven by the father
34:58
and apparently, for it to be like really legit, you really need at least 28 days to have
35:03
signed it.
35:04
Like otherwise it can be basically like 28 days before you get married.
35:09
Yeah.
35:10
Yeah.
35:11
So it's not like I forced you to do this.
35:12
So look, I'm not a lawyer.
35:13
But this is what this is what I found online.
35:15
Right.
35:16
Is that basic?
35:17
Because essentially what's happening is that he is contesting there.
35:19
The way that their wealth is being split now that they've divorced.
35:23
And one of the things is that apparently he signed it on the day of the wedding, which
35:27
is like signed under stress, basically, and sort of brought in by the father and whatever.
35:33
Which to be fair, I would do the same.
35:35
If I'd given my daughter 60 million, I wouldn't want Simon to think of a single day thing
35:41
or my, you know, wealth that I've built probably from my random oil company over time.
35:47
Do you know what I mean?
35:48
So anyway, basically what's happened is they had their like legal divorce or separation
35:53
or whatever.
35:54
And Simon ended up with like 325,000.
35:57
Okay.
35:58
You could probably be less than happy about that.
36:01
Like really gathered about it as you can imagine.
36:03
And so Simon basically, he was trying to get 2.5 million.
36:09
And he wanted like 36,000 a year for flights.
36:11
He wanted 26,000 a year for flights.
36:13
36,000 a year for flights.
36:15
Yeah.
36:16
I have no idea.
36:17
What is Simon up to?
36:18
Simon's business class, for sure.
36:20
Yeah.
36:21
He's gotten used to the luxury lifestyle.
36:22
Yeah.
36:23
And then 26,000 a year for a private meal plan.
36:29
And apparently, apparently the judge was like, said something like, that is astonishing.
36:34
You'll have to learn to cook.
36:35
Yeah.
36:38
And a little bit of that's right.
36:39
Or he said something like, I can't even cook an omelette.
36:41
Like, I'm going to need a meal plan.
36:42
And she was like, hmm, astonishing.
36:43
Oh my god.
36:44
I was like, that's a stunning gold.
36:46
But basically, what's happening is the reason that this was a big story.
36:50
If this was the other way around, and he was super wealthy, and he'd let his wife essentially
36:55
walk away with kind of nothing, that wouldn't have happened.
36:58
It wouldn't fly.
36:59
OK.
37:00
So he's basically saying, this is like a gendered biased situation, and I'm not happy with
37:06
it.
37:07
So he's trying to contest it.
37:10
And basically, what happened was, when he signed this prenup, apparently she was sort
37:15
of saying she had about 23 million, but there was like 48 million that was somewhere,
37:20
like, not disclosed.
37:21
So she was floating around in the Cayman somewhere.
37:23
So I think what it is is that the dad is super wealthy.
37:27
He's got all these properties and businesses that he's put in her name, and that wasn't
37:32
disclosed.
37:33
And anyway, the whole thing's like blowing up, and he's now going for like an appeal in
37:37
the court and blah, blah, blah.
37:39
But I don't know, I just, I thought it was really interesting because when I first read
37:42
it, I thought, bark Simon, like, absolutely, like, that's ridiculous.
37:46
Like, she should walk away with all her money, blah, blah, blah, blah.
37:49
But then I also was thinking, he's kind of right.
37:52
Like, if this was reversed, I would be losing my shit about it.
37:56
Yeah.
37:57
But I think the argument and the reason why we say that women deserve to be benefitting
38:03
and their partner's success, if they choose not to work, and the partner's been really
38:07
successful, is because they're propping up their life in so many ways, whereas
38:12
Simon, it sounds, doesn't know how to make an omelette, and is probably not propping
38:16
up.
38:17
No.
38:18
His wife, in a way that was adding all this value to her life.
38:22
100%.
38:23
Do you know what I mean?
38:24
I mean, yeah, that's a funny one.
38:25
And I'm kind of like, oh, love this.
38:26
I find it funny that he's like claiming this whole gender bias thing, but then can't
38:30
cook an omelette.
38:31
I'm like, you're kind of just like arguing against yourself when you bring that up.
38:34
I know.
38:35
I'm like, it's also, I'm a pretty shit cook.
38:38
It's not that hard to cook, like an omelette's easy.
38:40
Yeah.
38:42
It could be the easiest food crew that exists.
38:46
You know, 100%.
38:47
Simon has not touched a pot in his life.
38:53
And he just devastated that he's going to be falling from a $4.5 million luxury lifestyle
38:58
in this amazing house.
38:59
The best argument.
39:00
The best argument.
39:01
Oh, God.
39:02
What am I going to eat?
39:03
Yeah.
39:04
Help me.
39:05
I'm poor.
39:06
Help me.
39:07
I'm going to get a meal plan.
39:08
How much is this meal plan?
39:09
It comes to pre-namps and like, email all women.
39:12
You really need to make sure that it's airtight because there's no point in going through
39:17
and thinking you're protected and then you're not.
39:19
And the one of the things I thought was really interesting is that he did have independent
39:23
legal advice, which is what you need for it to be valid, but because the information
39:28
that him and his lawyer got was like, not correct, because she had, or her dad had
39:32
had an all this money, it is kind of like able, I think, to be contested.
39:37
And it's going to be going back into the high court, essentially, as if there was no
39:41
pre-namp.
39:42
Interesting.
39:43
Which is quite interesting.
39:45
That's really interesting.
39:46
And it sets a super strong precedent for future cases if they're going to take that
39:51
point of view.
39:52
So anyway, Jerry Heliwell will come back to that.
39:55
I'll update everyone.
39:56
Don't you worry, guys.
39:57
I'll keep a real close eye on Daily Mail.
39:58
We love it.
39:59
And I will come back in, you know, coming weeks and months with heart-hunting, heart-hunting
40:04
journalism.
40:06
Honestly, I find that more interesting than Trump's tariffs.
40:09
Same.
40:10
I did see it and I thought, stunning, I can speak to this.
40:14
And maybe this is just like all the motivation I need it to think, I can bring interesting
40:19
stories to the table too.
40:20
Yeah.
40:21
You know what?
40:22
It is.
40:23
It can do it.
40:24
So can I?
40:25
And it gets the brain churning.
40:26
I'm like, pre-namp when I pre-namp.
40:27
Yeah.
40:28
I mean, look, if I was getting given 60 million from my parents, I imagine they would
40:32
be instructing me with incredibly strict legal direction, that there's no way that I
40:39
can't have that context ahead.
40:41
Yeah.
40:42
Unfortunately, I don't have that issue, so.
40:43
I know.
40:44
Neither do I.
40:45
I saw this meme the other day.
40:46
And I was like, when you inherit a hard work, you're thinking, instead of a trust fund
40:49
or something.
40:50
Oh, yes.
40:51
So true.
40:52
I saw one that was like, I'm a trust fund baby.
40:54
My parents trust myself.
40:55
To fund myself.
40:56
Oh, what's the truth?
41:00
Yeah.
41:01
Like a couple of quick things we wanted to cover before you did, right?
41:03
Yes.
41:04
And this is kind of based on, there's been some massive sporting slash financial updates
41:09
in the UK.
41:10
Completely.
41:11
That are really a huge one.
41:12
I was about to do like a, what's his name?
41:15
Not Leon Armstrong.
41:16
What's the guy that landed on the moon?
41:17
Is it Leon?
41:18
Oh, Lance Armstrong.
41:19
No.
41:20
He's a cyclist.
41:21
Mark.
41:22
Neil Armstrong.
41:23
Is it Neil?
41:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:25
Ah.
41:26
Ah.
41:27
One's from London.
41:28
One.
41:29
We sound so unintelligent.
41:33
A big deal.
41:34
So huge congrats to the lionesses.
41:37
I think that would be remiss if we didn't say that.
41:39
But who are they for those who are known?
41:41
Yeah.
41:42
So they are the UK women's football team.
41:44
And they want the euros.
41:46
Yeah, euros 2025.
41:48
They also won in 2022, which is pretty cool.
41:50
I think they're the first time to back to back.
41:53
I must say, like the photos that I saw online, I have to be very honest
41:57
and how I didn't go to watch this, which I know is like a massive slap on those.
42:01
I can't remember what was happening, but I just did not have the energy.
42:04
Yeah, that's fair.
42:05
But when I saw these images come out of the players, what are you laughing at?
42:11
I'm sorry.
42:12
I'm laughing at the fact that we said Lance Armstrong landed on the moon.
42:15
And then I was just picturing him on his bike, like on the moon.
42:21
Oh, quite good.
42:24
And with quite a lot of conviction as well.
42:26
Lance Armstrong.
42:29
Oh, OK, moving right.
42:30
Sorry.
42:31
It's so funny.
42:32
It's like really funny, because it's the kind of thing I would say.
42:36
And like, I know how smart you are.
42:39
And the fact that they came out of your mouth is quite validating for me.
42:42
Oh, God, OK.
42:44
But I saw these images.
42:45
And I was like, oh, God, that's cool.
42:47
Like I got goosebumps seeing these women like so proudly.
42:50
Like beautifully, like shot photos and just like the pure pride.
42:55
Like honestly, even thinking about it and talking about it gives me goosebumps.
42:58
Like it's quite incredible.
42:59
It is.
43:00
It is very incredible.
43:01
And why is there such a big deal sort of like, why is there something we wanted to bring
43:04
it up?
43:05
Yeah.
43:06
OK.
43:07
So I think there are like so many flaw in effects from this in terms of kind of pellering
43:12
up like women's sport and just women and generally and also economically.
43:16
Maybe should I give a tiny bit of historical context to one of the people, because I researched
43:22
this and it was pretty interesting.
43:23
Yes, please do.
43:24
So essentially, and I'll try to keep this short, but essentially, women's football used
43:29
to be like a huge activity, like, and I'm talking Shakespearean times, like it was super,
43:34
super popular.
43:35
Really?
43:36
Yeah, really popular.
43:37
And anyway, it kind of like grew over time and like the 1800s, they had the first game
43:42
and it drew a crowd of 2,000.
43:44
I'm like, that's quite impressive for a first like professional.
43:47
Yeah, 2,000 people going to a game, yeah, it is huge.
43:51
It is huge.
43:52
How would they have got the word out?
43:53
No social media.
43:54
I was one of them.
43:55
The town cry, I must have been like, literally, gay, gay mom, so anyway, really, really popular
44:02
in World War One, it got even like more popular because all the men went off to war.
44:06
So women were doing like more of the men's roles, like work in factory.
44:10
So it was like pretty acceptable for women to be playing football, even though it was
44:13
deemed like quite manly.
44:15
After World War One, they returned to like more domesticated roles, you know?
44:18
This is so interesting.
44:20
Looking, cleaning, making babies and the Football Association, which was all men were like,
44:25
hmm, football's too dangerous for women and they're baby-making bodies and it's no good
44:29
we're banning it.
44:30
No.
44:31
Yeah.
44:32
So they banned professional football for women and only that ban only lifted in 1970.
44:38
Oh my God.
44:39
So really, in the last 50 years, we've made this ginormous comeback because football wasn't
44:47
essentially allowed for 50 years.
44:49
So we were like 50 years behind men.
44:51
So like basically the state we're at today where we've done pretty bloody well to like
44:57
increase the gain that it is and the popularity.
44:59
So maybe just, you know, like some rough stats is that football's like, we know how huge
45:05
football is, but for women, it still like took a lot of time to grow in terms of media
45:10
coverage, getting sponsorship deals.
45:14
But it did start booming.
45:15
So between 2012 and 2022, so 10 years, it grew 17 hundred percent.
45:22
No way.
45:23
Yeah.
45:24
In terms of like, oh my God, I love that.
45:26
I know.
45:27
So in terms of viewership, the viewership that just happened, so for the Euros, I think
45:30
they got 17 million UK watchers for the final that just happened recently.
45:35
Wow.
45:36
And compared to the men's final last year, it was 23 million, so like honestly, kind of
45:41
on par.
45:42
Wow.
45:43
That's so cool.
45:44
The disparity would have been so much greater.
45:46
God, that's amazing.
45:47
But essentially, in short, their growth, or just like women's sport, but especially
45:51
ones football, the growth in terms of viewership and like uptake, people like girls joining
45:56
playing football at school, is crazy, where men's has actually like plateaued a bit.
46:01
So we had less people watching the men's final, Euros final last year than the time before
46:07
it, like it decreased by like six million viewers.
46:10
I think all that's a good thing.
46:11
I love that.
46:12
So yeah, so they're doing really well, but what I think is a bit sad is that this doesn't
46:17
really translate into equality in terms of economic equality.
46:21
So like obviously, they're being paid less.
46:23
So the average salary for like a top female player is about like between 70 to maybe 150K
46:31
men, 4 million, like the Premier League players.
46:36
Like it's what the actual fuck, I'm sorry if you've got a child in the car, but like that
46:41
is just terrible.
46:44
Yeah.
46:45
So essentially the girls are doing way more for the sport in terms of growth of it.
46:49
Got the girls.
46:50
Go the girls, but it's just that the stats are just, you know, not translating.
46:56
I do think though that like future predictions, that is hopefully going to change.
47:01
I don't think we'll ever be as equal as men in terms of funding and in terms of like
47:05
the payback adjobs.
47:06
Maybe not our lifetime, but that definitely will change.
47:09
I definitely will change.
47:11
I think like if we can like relate this back to how we look at our finances and investments
47:16
in the way that we want to invest in companies, we can think like, hey, how can we kind of
47:21
like capitalize on this growth, but also like put our money where our mouth is and support
47:26
this movement.
47:28
And that's maybe investing in companies that like do support this.
47:30
So whether it's like the media companies or the brand companies that are like backing
47:34
these girls and backing these companies, that's a really cool way that we can actually
47:38
be part of this and feel that growth.
47:41
That's actually a really great idea and we, Vick and I, I feel like it might have been
47:45
last week of the week before.
47:46
We actually said something about women in sport, we were like, we should be doing, does
47:50
anyone want to know more about this or learn more about it?
47:53
And we had some really amazing messages.
47:54
So I think we actually should look into this more like if we wanted to like financially
47:59
and otherwise support women in sport and trying to see more equality, what could we be
48:03
doing?
48:04
And obviously watching it's one thing, but there's so many other ways.
48:07
Completely.
48:08
And like there are some pretty big investors like the reddit guy, Alexis O'Hanian, Serena
48:13
Williams' husband, he like bought part of Chelsea, the women's team for like 20 mail.
48:17
Oh yeah.
48:18
Bob Eiger, does NECO, he bought the entire like LA city angels, which is like the LA women's
48:24
team.
48:25
Wow.
48:26
Essentially well done to women's sport and while the growth like economic disparity might
48:30
still be there, I think it's trending that like there's going to be a lot of investment
48:33
and a lot of growth over time and hopefully equality.
48:36
Shit.
48:37
Yes.
48:38
How have you found your first podcast?
48:40
Ooh.
48:41
Scary.
48:42
But I also loved it.
48:43
I think it did an amazing job.
48:44
Okay.
48:45
Thank you.
48:46
Amazing.
48:47
Like so interesting.
48:48
I loved that.
48:49
And I feel like we spoke about so many good things.
48:50
You're so proud of me.
48:51
Like I know you listened to the podcast.
48:52
I'm sorry.
48:53
Did I make a real conscious effort to be a bit more engaged this way?
48:55
No, I'm really proud.
48:56
I'm so proud.
48:57
It was really good research.
48:58
I also do know what I think would be quite funny is for me to have like one story that
49:01
I have to bring every week.
49:02
I think that's a good thing to keep me actively engaged.
49:06
And I actually loved the daily mate.
49:08
Maybe we could make it a daily male story every week.
49:10
Yes.
49:11
Look.
49:12
I'll see if I can find some more repeatable sources, but I still think that's interesting.
49:17
Yeah.
49:18
Look, have a great week, everybody.
49:19
We will be back next week with Vic and you never know.
49:25
Like maybe if I'm sick or I'm away on holiday, you could actually be so fee and you just
49:31
are like, actually, it is me.
49:33
Yeah.
49:34
So it is more Lance Armstrong on the moon calls and you'll fit riders.
49:38
Yeah.
49:39
OK.
49:40
Lance Armstrong daily mate.
49:41
Got it.
49:42
Thank you so much for listening to the Curve Weekly.
49:45
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49:49
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49:50
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49:53
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49:54
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49:55
We would love a review.
49:56
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49:59
No, but in all seriousness, could you please leave a review because it really helps other
50:02
people find our cute little podcast and we hope you have a good week and see you next
50:06
Monday.
50:07
Bye.
50:08
Bye.
50:09
Sweet.
50:10
Yeah.
50:11
See you next Tuesday.
50:12
Wow.
50:13
See you next Tuesday.
50:14
I mean Monday.
50:15
No, actually though, new episodes out every Tuesday.
50:22
OK.
50:23
Quickly.
50:24
The Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial
50:27
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50:28
Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide personalized investing
50:32
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50:36
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50:38
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50:41
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50:42
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50:46
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50:48
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50:49
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