Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Dr. Gian Varbaro, Chief Medical Officer and Vice President of Ambulatory Services at Bergen New Bridge Medical Center

Transcript

Dr. Gian Varbaro, Chief Medical Officer and Vice President of Ambulatory Services at Bergen New Bridge Medical Center · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

• 0:00
  Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Becker healthcare
• 0:02
  care podcast.
• 0:03
  I'm Mackenzie Bean, Av and managing editor of
• 0:06
  Becker hospital review.
• 0:09
  Today, I am so thrilled to be joined
• 0:11
  by doctor John Barb who with the chief
• 0:14
  Medical Officer and vice President of Ambulatory services
• 0:18
  at Burg New bridge Medical Center,
• 0:20
  doctor Barb. Thank you so much for joining
• 0:23
  me. How are you?
• 0:25
  I'm good. Thank you so much for having
• 0:26
  me Mackenzie.
• 0:27
  Yeah. I'm I'm excited for our conversation. I
• 0:29
  think you bring such a valuable perspective from
• 0:32
  your medical center
• 0:34
  Before we dive in though, can you introduce
• 0:37
  yourself and tell us a little bit more
• 0:38
  about your background
• 0:40
  for anyone who is not familiar with some
• 0:42
  of your past podcast episodes?
• 0:44
  Sure. As you said, my name is Doctor
• 0:46
  John Barb. I'm Chief Medical Officer and Vice
• 0:49
  President of Ambulatory Services.
• 0:51
  My background is I'm an internal medicine physician.
• 0:54
  I was 1 of the early hospital list.
• 0:55
  So the first part of my career, I
• 0:57
  spent building hospitals programs in a few different
• 1:00
  places I founded it 1, I basically help
• 1:02
  build up 2 other ones. I started off
• 1:04
  in lot of the big academic centers and
• 1:07
  got very involved in improving patient quality and
• 1:11
  safety.
• 1:12
  Eventually, I ended up... I I was the
• 1:14
  person was always arguing with the administration. So
• 1:17
  I decided to go back and get an
• 1:19
  Va, so that I could speak their language
• 1:21
  because I realized that I was speaking doctor,
• 1:23
  and nobody... But was hearing me.
• 1:25
  And So I kind of fell into a
• 1:27
  leadership position more out of the, you know,
• 1:30
  what I'll do it myself kind of thing.
• 1:32
  There's a little bit of Arrogance.
• 1:34
  And eventually, ended up getting pulled and got
• 1:36
  involved in starting a lot of different programs.
• 1:38
  My career kind of took a pathway where
• 1:41
  I either help start a few different things
• 1:43
  I help found the residency program in a
• 1:45
  medical school in a clinically integrated network
• 1:47
  or I helped turnaround broken things.
• 1:50
  Was that another hospital of my first Cmo
• 1:52
  job that had been failing for a few
• 1:54
  years I was there for about 2 and
• 1:55
  a half years when we helped turn that
• 1:56
  around. And now it's been at Bergen New
• 1:57
  bridge for the last 6.5 plus years in
• 2:00
  the Cmo in total about 9 years now.
• 2:03
  But at Bergen New Bridge is a County
• 2:04
  hospital in Northern New Jersey that was failing
• 2:07
  badly for decades on 6 and a half
• 2:09
  years ago, they basically had a complete leadership
• 2:12
  change. They dissolved the old corporation formed the
• 2:14
  new enough for profit to manage it.
• 2:16
  And we've been pretty successful in helping to
• 2:19
  turn the place around. We've created a whole
• 2:21
  bunch of new innovative programs
• 2:23
  and
• 2:24
  we've won all kinds of quality awards and
• 2:25
  receive recognition for a lot of the work
• 2:27
  we've done here. Mh.
• 2:28
  That's amazing. You know, you have quite a
• 2:30
  bit of experience and as you say,
• 2:33
  turning around broken things, getting new programs, whether
• 2:36
  it's residency, hospitals programs off the ground.
• 2:40
  I'm curious looking ahead, say, in the next
• 2:43
  year at new Ep New bridge Medical? What
• 2:46
  do you foresee as the biggest challenge?
• 2:48
  And how are you really preparing for that
• 2:50
  now?
• 2:52
  I think there were a few big challenges.
• 2:55
  I think 1 is the 1 that everybody
• 2:57
  is kind of dealing with is that healthcare
• 2:59
  care is changing so rapidly
• 3:01
  that I think we have to keep up
• 3:03
  and keep ahead of And I think that's
• 3:04
  on everybody. New bridge we're a safety at
• 3:08
  hospital. And we have a lot of competition
• 3:10
  around us. And as I mentioned, we've been
• 3:12
  failing for so long. We started with a
• 3:13
  negative reputation. Although we've build stuff up. We
• 3:16
  still have to break through that. But I
• 3:18
  think the bigger issue is just
• 3:20
  everybody kind of does the same things in
• 3:22
  health.
• 3:23
  And I think we really have to start
• 3:24
  thinking more outside the box and looking at
• 3:27
  things more from a patient perspective.
• 3:29
  So it's figuring out what
• 3:31
  are going to be successful building them so
• 3:33
  that they take good care of patients with
• 3:35
  high quality, but doing them also efficiently.
• 3:38
  You wanted into all kinds of other issues
• 3:40
  as you do that. Staffing is a major
• 3:42
  1. We're no longer in the staffing crunch
• 3:44
  that we were in post immediately post pandemic.
• 3:47
  But there's still a national physician shortage. So
• 3:50
  recruiting quality physicians and then maintaining them,
• 3:53
  making sure that people don't burn out making
• 3:55
  sure people engaged and that's both physicians and
• 3:58
  other staff, whether it's other clinical staff like
• 4:00
  nursing or social workers or even the non
• 4:02
  clinical staff it's all really important to keep
• 4:04
  people engaged and really believing in what they're
• 4:07
  doing,
• 4:08
  so that they can
• 4:10
  so that you can get more
• 4:12
  with with with what you do have from
• 4:14
  it because you you're never really gonna to
• 4:16
  be that's the way you would like to.
• 4:18
  You can always have more staffing, but I
• 4:20
  think we really need to ways to do
• 4:22
  things better and
• 4:24
  smarter
• 4:26
  than we've been doing for many, many years.
• 4:28
  I think that those are the big challenges.
• 4:29
  And of course,
• 4:30
  then there's all the other challenges going on,
• 4:33
  like, how do you incorporate other new technologies?
• 4:35
  You know, kind of... It'll all... It's all
• 4:37
  kind of a piece. Right? Like if you're
• 4:38
  trying to innovate and trying to new programs.
• 4:42
  Technology can be helpful there, but there's also
• 4:44
  a tendency I think in healthcare
• 4:48
  run after technology for technology sake and not
• 4:50
  think about how to use it wisely.
• 4:53
  At the same time, I think that there's
• 4:55
  tremendous opportunities
• 4:57
  if a lot of different things, Ai obviously
• 4:59
  being that the sexy 1.
• 5:02
  But again, you can you can also
• 5:05
  can also blow up on you if you're
• 5:07
  not really thinking it through well in advance.
• 5:09
  And, again, we have a tendency to either
• 5:11
  in healthcare take way too long thinking about
• 5:13
  stuff. Or to rush into things. And I
• 5:15
  think finding that just right level is the
• 5:17
  main challenge?
• 5:20
  So
• 5:21
  a broad range of challenges, like you said,
• 5:22
  many health systems are facing right now in
• 5:25
  terms of
• 5:26
  up with the rapid changes in health care.
• 5:28
  It's really needing to start to think out
• 5:31
  side of the box in terms of some
• 5:32
  of the care delivery programs, how you're navigating,
• 5:35
  staffing shortages, and then, how technology really pleased
• 5:38
  piece into that.
• 5:40
  Is there a specific example or initiative
• 5:43
  that you're particularly excited about that you're hoping
• 5:46
  will really help the medical system get ahead
• 5:49
  of based challenges?
• 5:51
  So I think that there's AAA
• 5:53
  general piece. We're just trying to launch now
• 5:55
  a whole bunch of new different clinical programs.
• 5:57
  So they all have a similar,
• 5:59
  a similar bench, which is what we've really
• 6:02
  done successfully is the way I described is
• 6:04
  is democrat concierge
• 6:06
  and concierge most and typically for rich people
• 6:08
  who safety at hospital. But it's really
• 6:11
  making things patient centric have heard people talk
• 6:13
  about population held for decades.
• 6:15
  But again, a lot of times she could
• 6:17
  do a lot of the same stuff. And
• 6:19
  I think creating systems so that it's easy
• 6:21
  for the patients to use.
• 6:23
  Or services
• 6:24
  and also to prevent the services they need
• 6:26
  when they need them is the key piece.
• 6:28
  You know, We have this tenancy in healthcare
• 6:30
  care to do these things to patients.
• 6:32
  Where we make it hard for them even
• 6:33
  with things like my chart and other stuff,
• 6:35
  which is easier than it used to be
• 6:37
  and
• 6:38
  so difficult. You know, most people don't have
• 6:40
  medical knowledge. We tend to forget that. People
• 6:43
  have to take off from work to come
• 6:45
  see us. That, you know, we can bring
• 6:47
  stuff to them. We can make things easier
• 6:49
  for them. So
• 6:51
  we're doing all kinds of things everything from
• 6:52
  adding on all kinds of new navigators to
• 6:54
  trying to to use It systems to
• 6:58
  alleviate some of that work, making follow phone
• 7:01
  calls with patients, not and not just the
• 7:04
  typical, you know, follow phone
• 7:06
  but really trying to navigate them through through
• 7:08
  things. And then the other big piece is
• 7:10
  rethinking how we clinically take care of patients,
• 7:13
  know,
• 7:14
  Again, we have the tendency to bring patients
• 7:15
  in for these long visits
• 7:18
  where they have to take off from work.
• 7:19
  They have to come in, they have to
• 7:20
  do all kinds of different stuff. They have
• 7:22
  find somebody to watch their kids if the
• 7:24
  if their kids are home, you know, it's
• 7:25
  a summertime time now, so that that becomes
• 7:27
  an issue for some people.
• 7:30
  You know, instead, know, Telemedicine was 1 of
• 7:33
  the big breakouts of the pandemic,
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  I think that doing more frequent shorter visits
• 7:39
  and point telemedicine.
• 7:40
  Is very helpful and we've been very successful
• 7:43
  in doing that.
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  I think that
• 7:47
  the real
• 7:49
  challenge in all of this
• 7:51
  is
• 7:52
  bringing people along for the ride.
• 7:55
  While everybody says that they want change people
• 7:57
  don't really want change a lot of the
• 7:59
  time.
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  I learned this when I was building hospital
• 8:04
  programs.
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  I would go in and people would be
• 8:07
  all excited. And it would say, this is
• 8:09
  exactly what we need. And the person who
• 8:11
  was saying that was the person who became
• 8:12
  the biggest
• 8:14
  complain or once we actually implemented the changes
• 8:16
  because whatever I'm reason when they think the
• 8:18
  change is needed, what they actually mean is
• 8:20
  everybody else needs to change, they don't realize
• 8:22
  how it's going to impact them, and it's
• 8:24
  really important to put yourself in the shoes
• 8:26
  of
• 8:27
  both your staff and the patients and everybody
• 8:29
  around you when you're try implement these changes
• 8:31
  because you're always going to get pushed back
• 8:33
  and you need to prepare for that and
• 8:36
  you need to anticipate it and you need
• 8:37
  to
• 8:38
  be ahead of the curve on it.
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  And we've done a good job of doing
• 8:42
  that. It was never it's never smooth.
• 8:46
  Yeah. Change management is hard right and gaining
• 8:49
  by. And it is no easy for you.
• 8:52
  No. Not at all. What what have you
• 8:54
  found most effective in those areas with your
• 8:57
  physician teams?
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  I think that, you know, I I it
• 9:03
  sounds kinda h,
• 9:05
  but but my typical answer to this is
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  is empathy.
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  It's really important to be able to put
• 9:12
  yourself in other people's shoes. I think that
• 9:15
  everybody thinks they're doing that. But
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  you know, and look, there are... That's what
• 9:19
  works for me. You know, that that might
• 9:21
  not be other people style and it's okay.
• 9:24
  But for me, the way I've been able
• 9:25
  to manage it is to really try to
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  understand
• 9:29
  what it looks like on their level. And
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  I think in healthcare leadership, we forget that
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  sometimes.
• 9:35
  There's a it's really easy and that's not
• 9:36
  just in healthcare leadership, this is
• 9:39
  nature, right to few things from your own
• 9:41
  point of view and to think that
• 9:43
  your little corner of the world is the
• 9:45
  whole world.
• 9:48
  Again, when I was somebody who's kind of
• 9:49
  working up to the system, it used to
• 9:50
  really frustrate me
• 9:53
  that sometimes leadership would think
• 9:56
  that everything that was going on the hospital
• 9:57
  was happening in their executive suite. And now
• 10:00
  that I'm in the executive suite, I I
• 10:02
  remember that, and it's really important. I think
• 10:05
  for people to get out there. I I
• 10:06
  have a natural easy pathway. I'm the physician.
• 10:09
  I feel practice clinically. So I practice at
• 10:11
  my
• 10:12
  at my facility. You know? And,
• 10:15
  I mentioned at the beginning, I started as
• 10:16
  a hospital, so I I do in internships,
• 10:19
  but I also,
• 10:20
  once they became a Cmo, I started doing
• 10:22
  primary care again, so I work in our
• 10:24
  ambulatory settings too. And I think that really
• 10:27
  1, it gets me buy in not just
• 10:30
  positions but from the staff because they see
• 10:32
  me as 1 of them, You know, I'm
• 10:34
  I'm there with them in the trenches doing
• 10:36
  the work.
• 10:37
  And 2, it allows me to understand
• 10:41
  issues from their perspective and to kind of
• 10:42
  be ahead of stuff because I'm they're doing
• 10:44
  it and I face the same challenges that
• 10:45
  they do.
• 10:47
  And I do think it's really important
• 10:49
  for leaders to
• 10:51
  to stay connected with what's actually happening out
• 10:54
  on the floors or in the in the
• 10:57
  offices or any of those types of things.
• 10:59
  You know, I
• 11:01
  again, it's easier as a Cmo than it
• 11:03
  isn't in some of some other
• 11:05
  positions. Mh.
• 11:06
  But even Cmos, I mean, most Cmos, I
• 11:09
  meet don't practice clinically anymore. And I think
• 11:12
  that's a shame.
• 11:13
  You know, I again, I think I get
• 11:15
  so much out of doing plus. I still
• 11:16
  enjoy it. But
• 11:18
  but I I think it's just really important
• 11:20
  to to find some way to actually be
• 11:23
  in the trenches with your people, at least
• 11:25
  a little bit of time You don't have
• 11:26
  to do it a time. But I think
• 11:27
  it's really important.
• 11:29
  Because again,
• 11:31
  you know, my staff
• 11:33
  knows that I never ask him to do
• 11:34
  anything. I'm not willing to do first. You
• 11:36
  know, when when Covid hit, and we were
• 11:38
  in the sick of it because we're in
• 11:40
  Northern New Jersey, so we were hit when
• 11:42
  New York city was the same way.
• 11:44
  You know, everybody was afraid to see patients.
• 11:46
  I was the first doctor here to see
• 11:47
  Covid patients.
• 11:49
  You know, and it became very hard for
• 11:50
  people to not wanna do stuff when I
• 11:52
  was doing it already. And it wasn't... I
• 11:54
  didn't do it for that reason. I did
• 11:55
  it to show people, like, I'm willing to
• 11:57
  do this as well. And again, it it
• 11:59
  makes it makes me 1 of them and
• 12:01
  so they understand that I see things from
• 12:03
  their perspective too. And then it's just listening
• 12:05
  to them and not blowing things off.
• 12:08
  That's the other important piece, I think to
• 12:11
  change management. It's the other big 1 is
• 12:14
  to not be too precious.
• 12:16
  It's really easy
• 12:17
  to we make all these plans
• 12:20
  and the reality is that things never go
• 12:23
  according to your plan.
• 12:24
  Never.
• 12:25
  And it's really easy to get stuck and
• 12:27
  think what we have to do because this
• 12:28
  is how we planned it and you got
• 12:29
  to be loose and you got to be
• 12:31
  willing to pivot quickly.
• 12:33
  And say, okay, that part's not working this
• 12:35
  part is, let's adjust it and just be
• 12:36
  able to change stuff so that it fits
• 12:39
  for what works, because your original plan is
• 12:41
  never where you end at least not if
• 12:43
  things are working well.
• 12:46
  And biggest
• 12:47
  the biggest thing that's going to cost you
• 12:49
  in terms of quality in terms of time
• 12:51
  and in terms of financial cost is when
• 12:53
  you make an error.
• 12:54
  And so
• 12:55
  being able to get away from the ever
• 12:57
  and being open do that and trying to
• 12:59
  anticipate the errors is probably the most important
• 13:01
  thing. III know that was a very long
• 13:03
  answer.
• 13:05
  No. I think all
• 13:06
  variant insightful remarks
• 13:09
  you're a great example of servant leadership at
• 13:11
  its finest. I've been giving how powerful an
• 13:13
  impact that can have on a team,
• 13:16
  I wanna Zoom a little bit more And
• 13:18
  look at the Chief Medical officer roles specifically.
• 13:21
  I know you've been in that goal for
• 13:23
  some time. I think over the past decade
• 13:24
  plus we've already seen it evolve
• 13:27
  to not... To become a lot more strategic.
• 13:30
  We're seeing chief medical office have a broader
• 13:32
  seat that the table regarding.
• 13:34
  Value based care, care delivery strategies
• 13:37
  outside of really just being Liaison for the
• 13:39
  medical team.
• 13:41
  How do you see this role evolving going
• 13:43
  forward?
• 13:45
  I think it's going to be a lot
• 13:46
  more of the same of that same stuff
• 13:48
  you just mentioned.
• 13:51
  If you talk to different chief medical officers,
• 13:53
  I don't think any of us... I I
• 13:54
  don't I don't think there's any 2 chief
• 13:56
  medical officers in the country who have the
• 13:57
  exact same job.
• 13:59
  Even within the same system frequently, you know,
• 14:01
  you'll speak different people, and their jobs are
• 14:03
  always a little different because every place is
• 14:05
  a little different.
• 14:06
  I do a lot of stuff outside of
• 14:08
  the traditional Cmo roles. And I think it's
• 14:11
  really important
• 14:12
  for
• 14:13
  chief medical officers to have a voice in
• 14:15
  all of that.
• 14:17
  Again, I think that for too long, I
• 14:20
  think clinical leaders kind of sat to the
• 14:22
  side
• 14:23
  and
• 14:24
  kind of sat there and complain that things
• 14:25
  were happening to them and didn't have a
• 14:28
  voice and things. And I think it's really
• 14:29
  important to have those voices that at the
• 14:31
  table and I think it's really important for
• 14:33
  Chief Medical Officers to be more involved as
• 14:35
  you've mentioned in strategic decisions and financial decisions
• 14:39
  in
• 14:40
  in building up value based care in It
• 14:44
  development and deployment and governance,
• 14:47
  really in kind of everything because it touch
• 14:49
  is everything.
• 14:50
  Things true of nursing obviously.
• 14:52
  You know,
• 14:54
  I I think that it's just very, very
• 14:56
  important.
• 14:57
  And I think that that's going to continue
• 14:58
  to happen. And I think that that's a
• 15:01
  good thing. And I think it's imperative on
• 15:04
  on us the current leadership group to make
• 15:07
  sure that there are young people coming up
• 15:09
  who are trained to do that. When I
• 15:11
  was coming up,
• 15:13
  you know, they're
• 15:15
  sound like I'm a hundred years old and
• 15:16
  not. I'm under 50 for at least a
• 15:18
  couple more months. When I was coming up,
• 15:20
  you know, not a lot of physicians were
• 15:22
  doing this kind of stuff.
• 15:23
  And so there wasn't really a way to
• 15:25
  learn it. And the good thing is that
• 15:28
  there now
• 15:29
  a lot more people interested.
• 15:32
  The bad news for them is there's less
• 15:33
  opportunity because there's more people interested. When I
• 15:35
  started doing these things, now I was able
• 15:37
  to get a lot of experience early
• 15:39
  because I was like, okay. I'll take that
• 15:41
  I'll take that on. And so that was
• 15:43
  a good thing.
• 15:45
  But I do think it's important for physicians
• 15:47
  to get that other piece of training. Want
• 15:49
  to get involved and see how things work
• 15:51
  and also to get other perspectives too, because
• 15:54
  again, we can
• 15:56
  physicians tend to
• 15:57
  think to doctor
• 15:59
  sometimes. And so, like, for me 1 of
• 16:01
  the most important things was getting that Mba
• 16:03
  because it really did give me a
• 16:06
  different perspective. I went there originally to learn
• 16:09
  the vocabulary.
• 16:10
  But what it really did was it gave
• 16:12
  me the ability to see things from a
• 16:15
  different angle that I was not seeing things
• 16:17
  from beforehand.
• 16:18
  And so I was able to
• 16:21
  to 1
• 16:22
  look at the finances and look at the
• 16:24
  strategy and think in that way, but I
• 16:25
  was also able to discuss
• 16:27
  those things intelligently. And it's it's a different
• 16:29
  skill set.
• 16:31
  Them being a good physician. I think that's
• 16:32
  the other thing. I think a lot of
• 16:34
  times people end up in these leadership roles
• 16:37
  because they're a good physician and
• 16:39
  leadership does require some different scales. Some things
• 16:42
  overlap,
• 16:43
  but there are some things that are different
• 16:45
  and I think
• 16:47
  it's really important
• 16:49
  as the role evolves for people to have
• 16:51
  those skills
• 16:53
  because I think that's just going to continue.
• 16:56
  Yeah. A good physician doesn't always equate to
• 16:59
  a good leader. As you said, you'd really
• 17:01
  need to fluency in both. So language of
• 17:03
  dot and language of
• 17:05
  administrator or leader.
• 17:07
  Any other advice for listeners out there who
• 17:10
  might be physician leaders and aspire to be
• 17:12
  a chief medical law or 1 day, What
• 17:14
  would you tell about?
• 17:16
  I would tell them,
• 17:18
  get as much experience in different things that
• 17:20
  you can. I kind of alluded to it
• 17:23
  before. But, you know, when I was coming
• 17:25
  up, you know, I was the person always
• 17:27
  said, yes. You know, it became a joke
• 17:29
  where, you know, I I mentioned I came
• 17:30
  my academic sense. The residents used to joke
• 17:32
  about it.
• 17:33
  They actually, I heard it from several of
• 17:35
  them over the years. Like, I expect you
• 17:37
  to come down the hallway pushing a broom
• 17:39
  1 day because you have every other job
• 17:41
  it seems like in this place. You know,
• 17:43
  I was a person who they've, you know,
• 17:45
  became a thing of, like, they couldn't get
• 17:46
  anybody to do it see if John do
• 17:47
  it. And, you know, I typically if I
• 17:50
  thought that I could add something I did.
• 17:52
  Don't take things on just for the sake
• 17:55
  of taking them on. Do it if you
• 17:56
  think you have an afford it or if
• 17:58
  you think there's something you can learn doing
• 17:59
  it.
• 18:00
  Sometimes you can over extend yourself too,
• 18:03
  you want to do a good job on
• 18:04
  those things, but try to get involved
• 18:06
  in
• 18:07
  projects or an ideas where you can learn
• 18:10
  something and you can get experience because there's
• 18:12
  you can talk about things theoretically about what
• 18:15
  you would do
• 18:16
  but there's nothing better than getting hands on
• 18:18
  experience. If you don't have an opportunity to
• 18:20
  do stuff, the other thing that I recommend
• 18:23
  people to do is to watch other people
• 18:26
  or leaders. You can always learn stuff from
• 18:28
  them,
• 18:29
  both good and bad.
• 18:31
  You know,
• 18:32
  you can watch people you can say what
• 18:34
  decision would I make in that circumstance. You
• 18:36
  can try to think through why they made
• 18:37
  the decision they did. What worked what didn't.
• 18:40
  You can learn things from, like I said
• 18:42
  from bad leaders. There were people who I
• 18:43
  worked with who I thought were bad leaders
• 18:45
  and I
• 18:46
  know, had opinions y. And I like, well,
• 18:49
  that thing doesn't work because they're doing XYZ
• 18:51
  Or, oh, well, that thing did work for
• 18:53
  them. Why? You know,
• 18:55
  I think thinking through all that stuff is
• 18:56
  really
• 18:57
  important because it prepares you to be able
• 18:59
  to make other decisions. When I became a
• 19:01
  chief medical officer, I hadn't been 1 before,
• 19:04
  obviously,
• 19:05
  had done all the parts of it. Like,
• 19:06
  I had never done 1 job that where
• 19:08
  I did them all together, But I had
• 19:10
  done all the pieces of it separately. So
• 19:12
  I kind of walked in having the comfort
• 19:15
  level
• 19:16
  in the role. It's also really important as
• 19:18
  a young
• 19:20
  aspiring Cmo to
• 19:22
  get mentorship, find
• 19:24
  people who are
• 19:26
  who you admire, who you think do a
• 19:28
  good job and who are in interested in
• 19:29
  you and Willing to give you their time.
• 19:31
  You'll find there's a lot of people who
• 19:32
  wrong. I do it all the time for
• 19:34
  young because people that are for me.
• 19:36
  I was very lucky in my career that,
• 19:39
  a couple of times, I found people who,
• 19:42
  really
• 19:43
  taught me. And took care of me. There
• 19:45
  are several who come to mind very quickly.
• 19:49
  Several were physicians some were not, I always
• 19:51
  think of there was a a Chief Financial
• 19:53
  Officer place I worked at, who took an
• 19:56
  interest in me and really taught me a
• 19:57
  lot, and I learned a lot from him.
• 19:59
  That job actually was great because my boss
• 20:01
  was so fantastic and I learned a left
• 20:03
  from him because he had skill sets I
• 20:04
  didn't have.
• 20:05
  And so that's another important thing. Figure out
• 20:07
  what you're bad at.
• 20:09
  And try to work on those things and
• 20:11
  find people are good. That the things you're
• 20:12
  bad at and see what you can learn
• 20:13
  from them.
• 20:14
  I was very lucky in 1 of the
• 20:17
  positions I had where my boss, he was
• 20:19
  a ne neurologist, he was a chair of
• 20:21
  medicine.
• 20:22
  But what he was good at was all
• 20:23
  the things I was bad at.
• 20:25
  And
• 20:26
  and he was a wonderfully nice man. He
• 20:28
  taught me a time. I I am a
• 20:29
  much better
• 20:31
  position a much better physician leader in a
• 20:32
  much better Cmo because the time I spent
• 20:34
  working with him.
• 20:36
  So there's a lot of little pieces, but
• 20:38
  I think that those are
• 20:40
  the important things if You're a physician who's
• 20:42
  looking to
• 20:44
  get into leadership and and to grow.
• 20:46
  Yeah. I love that all great pieces of
• 20:49
  advice.
• 20:50
  Doctor. Barbara. Thank you so much for joining
• 20:52
  us on the podcast today. It's always set
• 20:54
  a pleasure to speak with you.
• 20:56
  It's a pleasure speaking with you too as
• 20:58
  well, Mackenzie. Have a wonderful day.
• 21:01
  Thank you. I hope you as well. And
• 21:03
  listeners, you can catch more of doctor Barb
• 21:06
  at our upcoming clinical leadership forum at the
• 21:08
  Becker E Cfo round payable,
• 21:10
  November eleventh to fourteenth in Chicago. We do
• 21:13
  still have some limited space available for attendees
• 21:16
  and sponsors.
• 21:17
  So please contact us at agenda team at
• 21:20
  ak
• 21:21
  dot com to learn more.