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Cards COLLAPSE Against Phillies, Bullpen Questions? Matthew Liberatore's Time To Shine · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:10
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Kyle Gibson and Lamps Lynn. A much
0:14
Speaker 1: needed off day for the Saint Louis Cardinals. They got
0:18
Speaker 1: swept in Philly. They had two starting pitchers go on
0:24
Speaker 1: the I L. They're now five and a half games
0:27
Speaker 1: back in the Wild Card. They got walked off twice
0:31
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, so it's been a rough go. So I
0:35
Speaker 1: want to bring this up and start with this gentleman.
0:38
Speaker 1: Cards in the finale in Philadelphia, four zip, two outs,
0:43
Speaker 1: two strikes in the ninth, O'Brien trying to close it out, Sosa,
0:48
Speaker 1: former Cardinal, doubles, Dela Cruz singles, then Schwarber two run
0:53
Speaker 1: Homer and it's old Cardinals drop it six to four
0:57
Speaker 1: after leading for to nothing with two out, two strikes
1:00
Speaker 1: in the ninth. After that, right Ley, O'Brien's on. After that. Ali,
1:07
Speaker 1: Now it's social media, so it doesn't mean that's everybody.
1:10
Speaker 1: But Ali got a lot of blowbacks saying that he
1:13
Speaker 1: blew that game. So in defense of Ali, what was
1:18
Speaker 1: he supposed to do? You have a bullpen that's already stretched.
1:22
Speaker 1: Probably not the guys everyone wants to be in the
1:25
Speaker 1: pen anyway, and he went with this closer who couldn't
1:30
Speaker 1: cross the finish line.
1:31
Speaker 2: Kyle.
1:32
Speaker 1: Obviously that's a tough spot for right Lee O'Brien, But
1:35
Speaker 1: how do you pin that on Ali?
1:38
Speaker 2: You don't you?
1:41
Speaker 3: It's just people who I mean, once again, I think
1:46
Speaker 3: we've said this multiple times. If you'd have asked these
1:48
Speaker 3: people who are making these negative comments about Oli and
1:51
Speaker 3: you just said, hey, before you say anything, I can
1:55
Speaker 3: promise you that when they get one hundred and thirty
1:57
Speaker 3: two games in, they're gonna be sixty six and sixty six.
2:00
Speaker 3: They're gonna have started at tarps off. But like Bonanza
2:04
Speaker 3: all across the league, you're gonna have Jordan Walker researchers
2:08
Speaker 3: all this stuff. They'd be like, oh man, that'd be
2:10
Speaker 3: really good. So yeah, I probably wouldn't care if they
2:12
Speaker 3: blow a lead in Philadelphia. Maybe I'll hold that negative
2:15
Speaker 3: comment to myself because that's where it's at, Like your
2:19
Speaker 3: closers one strike away multiple times from finishing the game.
2:24
Speaker 3: No matter how he got in that situation, he did right,
2:27
Speaker 3: but he's got a too too count on a Sosa
2:31
Speaker 3: just made a good pitch down if it was away.
2:34
Speaker 3: It's probably a swing and miss or a weaker hit
2:36
Speaker 3: ground ball. Same thing to Dla Cruz like and he
2:39
Speaker 3: got beat on his best pitches sweeper. So I mean, like, okay,
2:43
Speaker 3: we can sit here in second guests man should have
2:45
Speaker 3: thrown a sinker.
2:46
Speaker 2: But I don't know.
2:48
Speaker 3: You don't do anything all. He doesn't catch flak there.
2:51
Speaker 3: He's working with a bullpen who is getting over. Let's see,
2:54
Speaker 3: they had played what ten games and nine days at
2:58
Speaker 3: that point. They had an eleven game road trip that
3:01
Speaker 3: covered ten days.
3:02
Speaker 2: I believe.
3:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, the bullpen give up some runs late the last
3:07
Speaker 3: five games of it. But why do you think that is?
3:10
Speaker 3: I mean, this is what we talk about, why starting
3:12
Speaker 3: pitching is important. And by the way, the Stars have
3:15
Speaker 3: done their job. They've got like the third or fourth
3:17
Speaker 3: most six inning starts in the big leagues. I saw
3:19
Speaker 3: that stat the other day. So it just was a
3:21
Speaker 3: long stretch with a bullpen. It finally caught up to
3:24
Speaker 3: him a little bit. And you don't do anything. You
3:28
Speaker 3: give Ali a pat on the back and say when
3:30
Speaker 3: you see him next, Gym tell him that Lance and
3:33
Speaker 3: Kyle will tell him that Kyle wants to give him
3:36
Speaker 3: a pat on the back and says, keep going, it's
3:37
Speaker 3: gonna be okay.
3:39
Speaker 1: All right, that'll make him feel good. Lance, What are
3:42
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this, because look like you get like
3:45
Speaker 1: Kyle pointed out, like you know, it's a rebuild. We're
3:48
Speaker 1: in a rebuild.
3:49
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean, like I said, it's everything that
3:53
Speaker 4: Kyle mentioned is what we should be happy about.
3:56
Speaker 2: Right.
3:57
Speaker 4: They're supposed to be a sixty six win team on
4:00
Speaker 4: the year, right, I think was one of their projections
4:03
Speaker 4: to start the year. So all in all, it's been
4:06
Speaker 4: a productive year, has been a positive year. When you're
4:09
Speaker 4: in Philadelphia and you have a six round lead and
4:11
Speaker 4: your closure's gotten to two strikes multiple times to close
4:15
Speaker 4: the game, what are you supposed to do. You're supposed
4:18
Speaker 4: to leave your best guy in there to finish the
4:19
Speaker 4: game for you. You're damned if you do, damned if
4:22
Speaker 4: you don't. You know, all these damned when they're trying
4:25
Speaker 4: to win. They're damned when they're trying to lose. So,
4:28
Speaker 4: you know, all he's just going to be damned. There's
4:30
Speaker 4: really no other way to say it.
4:33
Speaker 1: What would you tell Riley O'Brien, he's thirty one, he's
4:36
Speaker 1: not a kid, But this is his first full year
4:38
Speaker 1: of closing and talking to Dusty Blake about really the
4:43
Speaker 1: psychiatry of that position and the toll it can take
4:46
Speaker 1: because there's more stress associated with he had to adapt
4:49
Speaker 1: to it. Thirty three saves, He was an All Star,
4:52
Speaker 1: pretty good. Last couple outings not so good, but their
4:55
Speaker 1: times every closer is a little shaky. What would Lancelnn
4:58
Speaker 1: tell Riley O'Brien.
5:01
Speaker 4: Keep checking that thing, kid, There's really nothing else you
5:03
Speaker 4: can do right in this game. You're gonna have your
5:06
Speaker 4: good ones, you're gonna have your bad ones, and you're
5:08
Speaker 4: gonna have things that just don't go your way sometimes.
5:10
Speaker 4: But the more you worry about things you can't control,
5:14
Speaker 4: the more it will sneak up on your oh bite you.
5:17
Speaker 4: So keep trying to make your pitches, keep using your
5:19
Speaker 4: nasty stuff, and the game will be in your favor
5:24
Speaker 4: as long as you don't let it beat you up
5:26
Speaker 4: or try to do something you're not capable of. So
5:29
Speaker 4: his stuff's there, his season's been there so far. He
5:32
Speaker 4: had you know, he had the worse outing of his
5:34
Speaker 4: season in that game. For his stuff, for who he is,
5:38
Speaker 4: He's not gonna give up six runs and an outing again.
5:41
Speaker 4: This year, So don't let it be something that snowballs.
5:44
Speaker 4: Just let it be what it was. It was a
5:45
Speaker 4: bad day, bad luck, whatever. Couldn't finish the job at
5:49
Speaker 4: that point. But don't let it, uh, you know, carry
5:52
Speaker 4: over to make it make another day worse than it
5:54
Speaker 4: needs to be. So I'd say, just keep chucking it
5:56
Speaker 4: and keep doing your thing.
5:58
Speaker 1: Then on the.
5:59
Speaker 3: Reefsman the bullpen, I know I mentioned that they've been struggling.
6:02
Speaker 3: They've given up runs in the last five games at
6:04
Speaker 3: a high rate. Right, So if we look at this
6:07
Speaker 3: is another number that popped up that I saw with
6:09
Speaker 3: the starter numbers. The Cardinals are I think now they're
6:12
Speaker 3: fifty three and nine. But they've played a ton of
6:15
Speaker 3: one run games and when they've had the lead after
6:17
Speaker 3: six innings they're fifty three and nine. That is that's
6:21
Speaker 3: a really good bullpen, all right. Plus they're playing a
6:24
Speaker 3: ton of close games in those games where they're leading,
6:27
Speaker 3: So I mean, yeah, it's a blip. It stinks that
6:30
Speaker 3: it was against the Phillies because you know, it hurts
6:34
Speaker 3: you directly in the standings. They didn't have a chance
6:36
Speaker 3: to lose as well. I mean, it looks a whole
6:38
Speaker 3: lot worse because five days ago you were just a
6:40
Speaker 3: couple games out and now you're not. So But man,
6:43
Speaker 3: the bullpen, they've done a really good job this year
6:45
Speaker 3: holding leads. So let's let's make sure everybody takes it
6:49
Speaker 3: easy on them a little bit.
6:51
Speaker 1: I think also the big picture, Kyle is it is
6:54
Speaker 1: a rebuild. So if this weren't a rebuild year, they
6:57
Speaker 1: could have gotten extra pieces, punished the bullpen, stuff like that.
7:02
Speaker 1: The good and the bad of a rebuild is your
7:04
Speaker 1: stockpiling prospects that will help you down the road. That
7:08
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're necessarily going to be available this year.
7:12
Speaker 1: I think fans are kind of losing sight of the
7:15
Speaker 1: fact that this has been a pretty successful season for rebuild.
7:19
Speaker 1: But let's not lose sight of the fact that it
7:22
Speaker 1: is a rebuild, right, Am I wrong?
7:23
Speaker 3: I'm of course of course they are because deep down inside,
7:27
Speaker 3: they're still Saint Louis Cardinals fans and they expect to
7:29
Speaker 3: make the playoffs every year. Right, And this is the
7:32
Speaker 3: one thing that Heim and the front office is having
7:35
Speaker 3: to balance during this rebuild is that Saint Louis they
7:39
Speaker 3: they were Sailos fans were lying to themselves two years
7:43
Speaker 3: ago when they said that, Well, we've been begging for
7:46
Speaker 3: the Cardinals to go through a rebuild. We've been begging
7:48
Speaker 3: for them to sell and.
7:49
Speaker 2: Get young and start over.
7:52
Speaker 3: You've been begging for something that you didn't want to see,
7:55
Speaker 3: and now it's like now they forget about it because
7:58
Speaker 3: the team's been more successful than expected. So now like, well,
8:02
Speaker 3: I can't believe we blew our playoff chances. What do
8:04
Speaker 3: you mean blew the playoff chances? There are playoff chances
8:06
Speaker 3: you didn't even believe the team had five months ago.
8:09
Speaker 3: So I just like we it's it's gotta be careful
8:13
Speaker 3: speaking out of both sides of our mouths here as
8:15
Speaker 3: Cardinals fans, like enjoy the fact that this young team
8:18
Speaker 3: is playing really well. You've seen great baseball out of
8:21
Speaker 3: some players that you weren't even expecting to probably be
8:24
Speaker 3: there at this point, And uh, you don't see what
8:28
Speaker 3: happens over the next thirty two games because just like
8:30
Speaker 3: a bad three game stretch, you know, looks like it
8:33
Speaker 3: took them out of it, a good three to six
8:35
Speaker 3: game stretch in the right back in. So I don't know,
8:39
Speaker 3: It's just I think this is where every now and
8:42
Speaker 3: then fans get a little bit excited and try to
8:45
Speaker 3: rush into something and knee jerk reaction, which is what
8:48
Speaker 3: social media and news now does. No offense to you,
8:51
Speaker 3: investigative journalist, Jim, but uh, it makes it. It makes
8:55
Speaker 3: it really tough to just enjoy the enjoy the run
8:59
Speaker 3: you're watching.
9:00
Speaker 1: No question. And I'm always been pro fans because they're
9:04
Speaker 1: the customers. Right, they are the customers. But just because
9:08
Speaker 1: some fans are saying this on social media doesn't speak
9:11
Speaker 1: for all fans.
9:11
Speaker 3: But Lance, yeah, agreed, fans are the customers. A right,
9:14
Speaker 3: fans are the customers. But this is an analogy I've used. Okay,
9:17
Speaker 3: you like going to a restaurant you now want to
9:20
Speaker 3: tell you think, oh, you know what, the menu is
9:22
Speaker 3: a little bland here, So hey, excuse me, mister owner,
9:26
Speaker 3: I need you to change the menu.
9:28
Speaker 2: Okay, the owner changes.
9:29
Speaker 3: The menu, and then you don't like the menu, well
9:32
Speaker 3: you ask them to change the menu. That's been perfectly fine,
9:35
Speaker 3: you know. So like I do agree, baseball, I enjoy
9:39
Speaker 3: playing for all the fan base that I played for
9:41
Speaker 3: Saint Louis included. Okay, so this is not trashing on
9:45
Speaker 3: the fans. This is really just the five percent of
9:48
Speaker 3: fans that voice their displeasure on social media, and then
9:51
Speaker 3: the ones that booed the front office the last few
9:53
Speaker 3: years that John Mosey like ended his fantastic room. Okay,
9:56
Speaker 3: but it's just one of those things when I listen
10:00
Speaker 3: a lot of sports radio and you hear people call
10:02
Speaker 3: in and they want to change. Well they got change,
10:05
Speaker 3: and now it's like they just are surprised that the
10:08
Speaker 3: Cardinals blew a couple of leads in Philly against one
10:10
Speaker 3: of the best teams in baseball.
10:11
Speaker 2: You know, it happens.
10:13
Speaker 1: All right, let me ask you this and then we'll
10:15
Speaker 1: take our first break, Lance.
10:18
Speaker 2: Saying something wrong.
10:19
Speaker 1: No, Kyle got the red ass today.
10:21
Speaker 4: I like it.
10:23
Speaker 3: You know, I don't even know why I'm sitting. I'm
10:26
Speaker 3: sitting in the great state of Indiana. I just had
10:28
Speaker 3: a great drive with my kids. I'm visiting my parents.
10:31
Speaker 3: I'm looking over at Cornfield here. You know, I don't
10:33
Speaker 3: even I'm not even that upset. It's just like, uh,
10:36
Speaker 3: you know, I don't like when people take shots at
10:38
Speaker 3: Olie when it's like, hey, this guy's done a great job,
10:40
Speaker 3: but give you one hundred and thirty two good games
10:43
Speaker 3: of baseball to walk so far?
10:44
Speaker 4: All right, no, take your take, your take, your closer
10:47
Speaker 4: aut wish wish war, we're coming up.
10:48
Speaker 2: You're right right, yeah, all right, But.
10:53
Speaker 1: Let me play devil's advocate. Is there something to be
10:56
Speaker 1: gained even for your young players if at the deadline
11:00
Speaker 1: you found a way to bolster the bullpen a little bit,
11:04
Speaker 1: reward the players for the season that they've had, give
11:07
Speaker 1: the fans a little some even if it's not building
11:10
Speaker 1: for winning the whole World Series. Once you're inion never
11:13
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen anyway. Would there been something
11:18
Speaker 1: for everyone had they made a couple of little adjustments
11:22
Speaker 1: to try to improve before the deadline. I'm just playing
11:25
Speaker 1: devil's advocate.
11:26
Speaker 4: I mean there could have been. But then again, you
11:29
Speaker 4: look up, you give up are all you're going to
11:31
Speaker 4: get to rental? You can't give up a big time
11:33
Speaker 4: prospect and a rebuild for a rental just to band
11:37
Speaker 4: Aida five hundred teams bullpen together down the stretch. So no,
11:42
Speaker 4: you shouldn't do that, And they didn't do that. They
11:45
Speaker 4: you know, they got Ferguson back, which gives them a
11:48
Speaker 4: guy that's been in playoff baseball games when he's in
11:52
Speaker 4: with the Dodgers and stuff like that, so they got
11:54
Speaker 4: guys back, and they have guys in their minor league
11:57
Speaker 4: system that have had good success at the big league too,
12:00
Speaker 4: So they didn't just totally give everyone away and not
12:03
Speaker 4: put anything back in there. They tried to say, hey,
12:06
Speaker 4: we got big league talent back to while also upgrading
12:10
Speaker 4: our farm system and kind of mixing a match in there.
12:13
Speaker 4: So they kind of did what you're saying they did.
12:15
Speaker 4: You just want, you know, guys that are bona fide seventh, eighth, ninth,
12:19
Speaker 4: and eighty guys, and those guys cost money and they
12:22
Speaker 4: cost prospects. They're trying to not spend money and they're
12:24
Speaker 4: trying to accumulates prospects. So it just goes opposite direction
12:28
Speaker 4: of everything they're trying to accomplish this year. So no,
12:31
Speaker 4: you cannot do that. But they actually did in a
12:34
Speaker 4: little bit with getting Ferguson and guys like that.
12:37
Speaker 3: But they're playing devil's advocate on on our side of this.
12:41
Speaker 3: Thank you for doing that. I appreciate that.
12:43
Speaker 2: Normally your devil's like, why didn't we do more? You know,
12:47
Speaker 2: I agree they you know, they bring in an extra
12:50
Speaker 2: bullpen arm it had been great.
12:52
Speaker 1: Look I'll say this, the team is set up for
12:57
Speaker 1: the future now, So I mean there's no question do
13:00
Speaker 1: they have a stockpile of young, controllable talent, specifically arms,
13:04
Speaker 1: which is the best currency in baseball. They've done a
13:07
Speaker 1: good job, so the future looks bright. We're just talking
13:10
Speaker 1: about this season and now as we talk about bullpen,
13:13
Speaker 1: they're gonna have some issues with the starting rotation. We'll
13:16
Speaker 1: get to that after this short time out. You're watching
13:19
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
13:26
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14:24
Speaker 1: So we got Polante and Dobbins on the IL and
14:27
Speaker 1: Leahy who just worked four scoreless innings and has I
14:31
Speaker 1: believe ten eleven straight starts given up two runs or less.
14:35
Speaker 1: He's probably emerged as a Cardinals' best starting pitcher this season,
14:40
Speaker 1: and the starting rotation has been solid. But now they
14:44
Speaker 1: want to limit his innings because he's coming up on
14:47
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty and they want to make sure
14:50
Speaker 1: that a young man who's never I think, pitched more
14:52
Speaker 1: even in the minors than one hundred and forty four
14:54
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty six innings, that they don't jeopardize
14:58
Speaker 1: what he's morphing into. I think if you asked Kyle Lahey,
15:02
Speaker 1: I just talked to him during the recent homestand he said,
15:04
Speaker 1: my arm feels great, I want the ball. He's that
15:07
Speaker 1: kind of guy. But Kyle will go to you on
15:09
Speaker 1: this one. You know, the Cardinals have been very disciplined
15:13
Speaker 1: and not as Lance pointed out, going and getting a
15:16
Speaker 1: rental player and giving away stuff. They've been very disciplined.
15:21
Speaker 1: Also with Kyle Lahey, they didn't want to extend his
15:23
Speaker 1: innings too far. They want him to be fine going
15:27
Speaker 1: into the offseason. Is that the right move?
15:32
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not gonna argue that it's not the
15:34
Speaker 3: right move, so I don't I'm gonna mainly say that
15:39
Speaker 3: I would love to see them find a way to
15:42
Speaker 3: get him to one hundred and sixty two innings so
15:45
Speaker 3: that he can call five for the eer A Lead
15:48
Speaker 3: Award and that get that recognition. I know that's, you know,
15:53
Speaker 3: more of an individual stat. But the guy's had a
15:57
Speaker 3: fantastic season. You know he's gonna get He's gonna I
16:02
Speaker 3: don't know, I'd have to look at the rest of
16:04
Speaker 3: the leader board, but man, he ends up with a
16:06
Speaker 3: low three RA with all of his starts. At one
16:08
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty two innings, he's gonna be somewhere in
16:10
Speaker 3: the top ten or top fifteen in the best seasons
16:13
Speaker 3: in the National League, So would really love for him
16:15
Speaker 3: to get that recognition. And I also think making these
16:19
Speaker 3: next six starts, whatever it ends up being, is important.
16:22
Speaker 3: If he can now if those six turn into four,
16:26
Speaker 3: that's not a deal breaker, but if the six turn
16:28
Speaker 3: into one, I'd be probably more disappointed than that.
16:33
Speaker 1: How about you, Lance, how would you handle it? This
16:36
Speaker 1: guy is at under one hundred and thirty right now,
16:40
Speaker 1: but he hasn't pitched a lot of innings, you know,
16:42
Speaker 1: since the Miners that was a few years ago. Is
16:45
Speaker 1: this sensible or would you let him roll for a while.
16:49
Speaker 4: Like I've always been an advocated finishing the season. I
16:52
Speaker 4: think for his mental and for the team to be
16:55
Speaker 4: able to finish the season active and going every five
16:59
Speaker 4: days for a guy is great or five or six days.
17:03
Speaker 4: But I would say, like they did with the four innings,
17:06
Speaker 4: I think it's about stressful innings, stressful pitch counts and
17:10
Speaker 4: stuff like that. So if you can get the idea
17:12
Speaker 4: of if we can give him five innings every time
17:15
Speaker 4: through or if it's hey, it turns into six at
17:18
Speaker 4: eighty five, that's perfect. I think it's about pitch count
17:22
Speaker 4: and you know, stressful innings from here on out because
17:25
Speaker 4: he's I would say, he's probably at the the limit
17:29
Speaker 4: that anybody that would want him to jump to from
17:32
Speaker 4: last year. So now it's monitoring those stressful innings and
17:36
Speaker 4: when he has one, you don't send him back out
17:38
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. But if he's rolling, it's like, Okay,
17:41
Speaker 4: we'll going to max at eighty five today. But if
17:43
Speaker 4: we stay under fifteen pitches and we never get over
17:46
Speaker 4: thirty in an inning, we can kind of stay in
17:48
Speaker 4: that in that ballpark and get through five every time,
17:50
Speaker 4: and that will give him the confidence going in next
17:52
Speaker 4: year and also won't kill your bullpen and you won't
17:54
Speaker 4: have to have piggyback days lined up ready to go
17:57
Speaker 4: far him too. So if you can get two hundreds sandings,
18:00
Speaker 4: that's great and healthy at the end of the year
18:03
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. He takes care of himself. He's
18:06
Speaker 4: pitched a long time. He has had starter years in
18:10
Speaker 4: the past. The last two have been more reliever up
18:13
Speaker 4: until this year.
18:14
Speaker 1: But he throws.
18:15
Speaker 4: He threw a lot, and he's dealt with a lot,
18:17
Speaker 4: So he probably feels better than now than he has
18:19
Speaker 4: with the abuse that you can get as a reliever
18:23
Speaker 4: wears on you a lot more than the starter days,
18:25
Speaker 4: especially when you have a lot of six days like
18:27
Speaker 4: they've been able to have.
18:28
Speaker 2: And been able to move him around.
18:29
Speaker 4: So hopefully he can make those last starts, and hopefully
18:32
Speaker 4: they can average about five in needs to start and
18:33
Speaker 4: it'll be in a good spot.
18:35
Speaker 2: I also think we can't.
18:37
Speaker 3: We can't you know, overlook the fact that I think
18:39
Speaker 3: the Cardinals have a great track record here over the
18:42
Speaker 3: last two years of keeping starters healthy some of the luck.
18:46
Speaker 3: But I think they also have very good programs, And
18:48
Speaker 3: I think you lean into your training staff here. Maybe
18:51
Speaker 3: instead of checking arm strength, you know, once every other start,
18:56
Speaker 3: you're checking it a couple times in between starts. You're
18:59
Speaker 3: monitoring throw, you're monitoring bullpens. Like, let your training stuff
19:02
Speaker 3: do the work and trust the fact that they have
19:05
Speaker 3: a good idea of where he's at. Because you can
19:08
Speaker 3: limit his innings all you want and say, hey, we're
19:10
Speaker 3: only gonna let you go out there two winnings each
19:12
Speaker 3: time for the next five starts. Well, he could get
19:15
Speaker 3: hurt in the next inning, get hurt three innings down
19:17
Speaker 3: the road, and then people are gonna say you should
19:19
Speaker 3: have shut him down two starts to go. So trust
19:22
Speaker 3: the training staff and what they've been able to build
19:25
Speaker 3: because I think they've done a good job.
19:27
Speaker 1: They've done a great job, no question about it. So
19:30
Speaker 1: for me, it's a time for Libby to shine. Libby's
19:34
Speaker 1: had his ups and downs this year. Last couple starts better.
19:37
Speaker 1: They give up a home run that changed the complexion
19:39
Speaker 1: of the ballgame in his last start, but he's been better.
19:42
Speaker 1: This is a guy who I think is set up
19:45
Speaker 1: to have a strong finish lance. Just your thoughts on
19:48
Speaker 1: you know, when guys are hurt and you're gonna have
19:51
Speaker 1: to put some other pieces and you lean on your guys,
19:54
Speaker 1: it's time for Libby to step up, don't you think?
19:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:58
Speaker 4: I mean you're looking at the guy that's you know,
20:00
Speaker 4: left over that did all the starts last year. He's
20:02
Speaker 4: the only guy from last year that's active right now,
20:04
Speaker 4: going going to finish this this year. So you're looking
20:07
Speaker 4: to kind of have him become somebody that for the
20:10
Speaker 4: next five starts that he's you know, you know you're
20:12
Speaker 4: gonna get hopefully six out of him with three or
20:15
Speaker 4: less runs. So you've got to get quality starts from
20:18
Speaker 4: him down the stretch here, And I think it will
20:20
Speaker 4: go well for his you know, mental makeup in the
20:23
Speaker 4: off season two to do it. But like we've talked about,
20:26
Speaker 4: he's had a lot of good ones and he've had
20:27
Speaker 4: some bad ones. And if we can hit some consistency
20:31
Speaker 4: down the stretch here and and he can kind of
20:33
Speaker 4: carry the load with the injuries going on, that's that's
20:36
Speaker 4: huge for his future and letting everybody know what he's
20:40
Speaker 4: capable of and what he's able to do when times
20:42
Speaker 4: get tough and guys go down, so he's capable of
20:45
Speaker 4: all this.
20:46
Speaker 2: We know he's got the stuff.
20:47
Speaker 4: We know he's got to make it for it. Let's
20:49
Speaker 4: hope he puts it together down the stretch here and
20:51
Speaker 4: kind of becomes a guy that they can lean on
20:52
Speaker 4: every five days to get a win and then they
20:54
Speaker 4: can stay, you know somewhat where they where we want
20:57
Speaker 4: him to be, to just be peeking in and to
21:00
Speaker 4: see if they can sneak in the back end.
21:05
Speaker 3: Lance tell me anything I'm wrong here, if if you're Libby,
21:10
Speaker 3: because I think he has a similar mindset to how
21:12
Speaker 3: you and I looked at taking the ball and going
21:14
Speaker 3: out there and going as deep into the game as
21:15
Speaker 3: possible and maybe Allie and Dusty have had this conversation.
21:19
Speaker 3: If you're Libby, the thing that you would love to
21:21
Speaker 3: hear right now is all right, Libby, you got five
21:25
Speaker 3: starts left. You're making all of them, and you are
21:28
Speaker 3: going to get to one hundred or one hundred and
21:30
Speaker 3: five pitches in every single one of them, because we
21:32
Speaker 3: need the depth. We need you to get deep into
21:34
Speaker 3: the ball game. If you're having a rough inning, you're
21:36
Speaker 3: going to work through it. If you have a rough
21:38
Speaker 3: couple innings, we're leaving you out there. You're working through
21:41
Speaker 3: it because we believe that you can keep doing this.
21:42
Speaker 3: So we're going to find ways to let you keep
21:44
Speaker 3: working on things that would be exactly what I would
21:46
Speaker 3: want to hear if their plan is to let him
21:48
Speaker 3: make these five starts. And there is nothing better in
21:51
Speaker 3: my mind than when you're a starting pitcher and the
21:53
Speaker 3: manager comes up or the pitching coach comes up and says, hey,
21:57
Speaker 3: use all your pitches today, because you got one hundred
21:59
Speaker 3: and five of them and you're out there no matter what.
22:02
Speaker 3: I just I love that boat of confidence. I love
22:04
Speaker 3: kind of the nudge out there and tell me go
22:06
Speaker 3: get it. I'm you think that's something I want to
22:08
Speaker 3: help him.
22:10
Speaker 4: I think you'd be huge for him. And it's simple
22:12
Speaker 4: way of saying is, hey, it's time to take the
22:13
Speaker 4: training wheels off. It's your second full year, it's your
22:16
Speaker 4: fourth year in the big leagues, and where this is
22:19
Speaker 4: where we're at as the team. You're a horse and
22:22
Speaker 4: we're gonna ride you down the stretch here, and you
22:24
Speaker 4: got to show us that you're gonna be what we
22:26
Speaker 4: think you're gonna be. So yeah, I love that idea,
22:28
Speaker 4: and I think it will give him the thing. It's like, Okay, cool,
22:30
Speaker 4: finally I can go be me and that might be
22:33
Speaker 4: huge for him and the team, not only this year
22:36
Speaker 4: but going into next year.
22:38
Speaker 1: I like it now. Quinn Matthews in a couple of starts,
22:41
Speaker 1: look good, got hammered, absolutely hammered in this last start.
22:44
Speaker 1: Happens with young pitchers getting their first taste of major
22:48
Speaker 1: league baseball. But we mentioned there's other guys on the IL.
22:52
Speaker 1: So do the Cardinals like a guy like Jerpy Guy's
22:56
Speaker 1: been good at Triple A limited starts at Triple A,
22:59
Speaker 1: but he's looked good. He's also coming off Tommy Johns
23:03
Speaker 1: probably watching his innings. Do they go with a guy
23:06
Speaker 1: who might not originally be in their plans to be
23:09
Speaker 1: in the bigs at this point and push him along,
23:12
Speaker 1: or do the Cardinals try to get depth from a
23:16
Speaker 1: discard a guy who's got a major league resume who's
23:20
Speaker 1: suddenly available. I put this name out there, Miles michaelists
23:24
Speaker 1: because a lot of people have done that. But there
23:27
Speaker 1: are other guys out there too. Would you go push
23:30
Speaker 1: a young guy along or would you go veteran that
23:33
Speaker 1: we know can eat some innings for us. I'll go
23:37
Speaker 1: with you LANs on this.
23:39
Speaker 4: I'd say the number one thing you think about is
23:41
Speaker 4: windsor clock's supposed to start. You can't push a guy
23:44
Speaker 4: that's clock's not going to start until maybe next year,
23:47
Speaker 4: or you don't have to put him on the forty
23:48
Speaker 4: man this offseason. So I think that's going to be
23:50
Speaker 4: the main thing. If you've got guys that, hey, I'm
23:53
Speaker 4: going to protect this guy, come the rule five out
23:56
Speaker 4: of the rule five, and I'm gonna put him on
23:57
Speaker 4: the forty man, then yeah, you push him along and
24:00
Speaker 4: let him go get up here, and you let him
24:02
Speaker 4: see some actions, because that really gives you an idea
24:04
Speaker 4: of what you got in the future, and it gives
24:07
Speaker 4: him a little taste too, so, but if a guy's
24:10
Speaker 4: not on your plans to put on the forty man,
24:12
Speaker 4: or he's not somebody that is ready for that, and
24:15
Speaker 4: you don't think he's ready, then you got to go
24:17
Speaker 4: out and get, you know, big league ineings, whether it's
24:20
Speaker 4: Miles or or someone like that that you know that
24:22
Speaker 4: can just jump in and make starts. You are going
24:25
Speaker 4: to have to cover some innings here. I don't think
24:28
Speaker 4: you can replace two guys in the rotation with three
24:30
Speaker 4: minor leaguers. I think you're going to have to go
24:32
Speaker 4: out and say, hey, I need someone that I know
24:34
Speaker 4: that knows what they're doing in there, and then I
24:37
Speaker 4: can that other spot I can maybe mix in match
24:39
Speaker 4: with with my depth in the minor leagues. So they've
24:43
Speaker 4: got some choices to make. But I think the number
24:45
Speaker 4: one thing is if you're not going to protect them
24:47
Speaker 4: this offseason or it's not their time to be protected,
24:50
Speaker 4: then you let him finish what or they're doing in
24:52
Speaker 4: triple A. But if you're ready, hey, this guy's going
24:54
Speaker 4: to be on our forty man this offseason because we're
24:57
Speaker 4: going to protect him, then let him come get a
24:59
Speaker 4: couple of starts and let him come do his thing
25:01
Speaker 4: and also get a little taste and the game won't
25:03
Speaker 4: be as fast forward next year when you need him
25:05
Speaker 4: and you and you're supposed to be going for it.
25:07
Speaker 4: So the rebuild is for you to use this last
25:11
Speaker 4: month to see what you got arms wives. So now
25:14
Speaker 4: the injuries are coming, it gives you that opportunity where
25:17
Speaker 4: the fans are saying, oh, well, this is what next
25:19
Speaker 4: year we're you know, we're seeing what we have for
25:21
Speaker 4: next year. So it could work out well for the
25:24
Speaker 4: Cardinals and what they've had planned the whole time.
25:27
Speaker 1: Kyle, would you or Lance be willing to drive to
25:30
Speaker 1: Saint Louis and maybe grab a couple of stars if
25:33
Speaker 1: need be? If need be, you ready to go with that.
25:37
Speaker 2: I you know I'm gonna steal Lance's line. Here. Can
25:41
Speaker 2: I go out and get three outs right now?
25:43
Speaker 1: Yeah?
25:43
Speaker 2: Probably many more than three outs. I don't know.
25:49
Speaker 3: I have realized that I'm starting to feel the fact
25:52
Speaker 3: I've thrown eighteen hundred innings in the big leagues. The
25:56
Speaker 3: labor them that I have of a slight fray in
25:58
Speaker 3: is nagging at me playing catch with my son and
26:01
Speaker 3: throwing BP to his nine year old baseball team. So yeah,
26:05
Speaker 3: I mean to do a little bit of work, Jim.
26:07
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need a few weeks, so I'm gonna let
26:10
Speaker 3: Lance do this one. He's probably fresher than I am.
26:14
Speaker 1: Lance. Are you ready to go?
26:16
Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm over it.
26:17
Speaker 1: You're good, He's good, he's Where's all right? We're gonna
26:20
Speaker 1: take our final break. You're watching Cardinal Territory on the
26:23
Speaker 1: Foul Territory Network.
26:28
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26:33
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27:27
Speaker 1: So one thing we've noticed about the Cardinals this season,
27:30
Speaker 1: they've had patches that have been pretty bad, and you think, Okay,
27:35
Speaker 1: that's it, that's all she wrote wearing the rebuild, so
27:37
Speaker 1: we understand it, and then they start playing better baseball.
27:41
Speaker 1: I don't recall a stretch like this where they got
27:44
Speaker 1: walked off a couple of times then had two of
27:47
Speaker 1: the starters go on the al because they're starting pitching
27:50
Speaker 1: has remained a strong point and healthy. So a bunch
27:54
Speaker 1: of games left, they're at five hundred lanks. What are
27:57
Speaker 1: we going to see from this ball club going full?
28:00
Speaker 1: In your view, sir.
28:02
Speaker 4: Well, I think we're gonna see what they're made of
28:04
Speaker 4: when you get the proverbial kick in the sack that
28:06
Speaker 4: they got this weekend. Right, they got two starters go down,
28:10
Speaker 4: they get walked off. There, you know in Philly a
28:14
Speaker 4: team that they're trying to chase. So I think you're
28:16
Speaker 4: gonna see what kind of resilience they have to see
28:19
Speaker 4: where they where they go this last month or so.
28:22
Speaker 4: So I like their makeup as a whole. I like
28:26
Speaker 4: their their swagger. We need the offense to be ready
28:29
Speaker 4: to carry some more load now that we know that
28:31
Speaker 4: we're going to have to mix the match some pitching
28:34
Speaker 4: coming down the stretch. So it just shows you are, well,
28:38
Speaker 4: we're going to see what kind of makeup they have
28:40
Speaker 4: for the future. And then if these guys can finish
28:42
Speaker 4: what they've started, if they can be above five hundred
28:45
Speaker 4: to end the year, it's great. But see if you
28:47
Speaker 4: can stay, stay in it and do your thing here
28:49
Speaker 4: down the stretch and know that hey, next man up,
28:52
Speaker 4: who's it going to be? And how can we rally
28:54
Speaker 4: around those guys? And I think as we've seen as
28:57
Speaker 4: a whole this year, that's what they've done from the
28:59
Speaker 4: get go, is there rallying around whoever's there, whoever's playing,
29:01
Speaker 4: whoever's in the lineup, whoever's in the rotation. So hopefully
29:04
Speaker 4: they can keep that up and that would be fun
29:07
Speaker 4: for fans to see because when you have a team
29:09
Speaker 4: like that, it starts building things for the future, and
29:11
Speaker 4: that's what they're trying to do. So hopefully that's what
29:14
Speaker 4: we see here, Kyle.
29:16
Speaker 1: It's a team that no one thought could play this well,
29:20
Speaker 1: even being five hundred at this point, as you point
29:23
Speaker 1: out rightfully, so they've exceeded expectations. I think everyone thinks
29:28
Speaker 1: there's gonna be that girdling sound and down the drain
29:31
Speaker 1: they go, But this team never does that. They always
29:33
Speaker 1: sponge back.
29:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think they've done a really good
29:37
Speaker 3: job of fighting back when they need to. I think
29:39
Speaker 3: that looks to the leadership of the team in the
29:41
Speaker 3: coaches room and in the locker room. And I look
29:46
Speaker 3: at this. I was kind of looking at the schedule
29:47
Speaker 3: a little bit ago. Let's see, it's Baltimore now, a
29:53
Speaker 3: team that they can win two out of three. You know,
29:55
Speaker 3: that team's very inconsistent level a lot of those guys
30:00
Speaker 3: the locker room, but they haven't played how they want
30:01
Speaker 3: to play this year either. Uh you got I want
30:05
Speaker 3: to say, Pittsburgh coming up, the Dodgers coming up, Colorado
30:08
Speaker 3: coming up, Sanfrey and coming up. You look at those
30:11
Speaker 3: twelve games right there, and I'm not saying they're gonna
30:15
Speaker 3: sweep the teams that they you know, should sweep, but
30:18
Speaker 3: they go eight and four. All of a sudden, you
30:21
Speaker 3: look up, you're like, oh, man, I wouldn't be surprised.
30:23
Speaker 3: In two weeks the Cardinals are two games out of
30:25
Speaker 3: this thing again, out of the last spot. It's just
30:28
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a wildcard race that's gonna go away,
30:31
Speaker 3: because I think, you know, there's teams that are going
30:33
Speaker 3: to play each other. There's teams that, like the Cardinals,
30:36
Speaker 3: are gonna have a little lull in the difficulty of
30:38
Speaker 3: the schedule and give them a chance to creep back in.
30:41
Speaker 3: And they've got good players, and the offense can carry
30:45
Speaker 3: the team. And you know, when Polante and Dobbins and
30:47
Speaker 3: these guys get back, they're they're gonna be in.
30:50
Speaker 2: A good spot hopefully.
30:50
Speaker 3: So yeah, I look for the offense to to score early.
30:55
Speaker 3: I think there's something that the offense the coach I
30:57
Speaker 3: got to talk about is put up some runs early,
31:00
Speaker 3: stay putting the pressure on them and see if we
31:02
Speaker 3: can help the pitching step out a little bit. And
31:04
Speaker 3: I'm just not going to be surprised here in a
31:05
Speaker 3: couple of weeks if we look up and the corners
31:07
Speaker 3: are creeping back in.
31:08
Speaker 1: It be awesome. It'd be awesome because, look, this team
31:12
Speaker 1: is exceeded expectations. They've been fun to watch, and I
31:15
Speaker 1: would love it if they had a fun finish too.
31:18
Speaker 1: I think they deserve that. That's gonna do it for
31:20
Speaker 1: this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time.
31:23
Speaker 1: Hopefully that episode won't suck