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Conestoga-Susquehannock Tribe: Collective Advocacy, Clean Water & Lancaster History · Clean Water Conversations

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone and welcome to Clean Water Conversations, the podcast where we have casual discussions about creating clean and clear waterways right here in Lankster County.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Ken.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, it's Allison.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Allison Fall is here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Your favorite season.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and I have to be very clear that it is my favorite season because I have a child named Autumn.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I also have another child who is not named Autumn and gets very uh protective of that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Favorite.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and how does he like fall?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: We have determined that he is a season as well.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, oh yeah, there's that one too.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: My question then is what is your favorite fall food?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Favorite fall food.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to go pumpkin spice, latte.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Look, the acronym fun begins, Ken, because it's just known as PSL.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Which you already said, so that acronym covered.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's all right.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I won't.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's your favorite food.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Moving on.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's changed as dietary.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Ah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Things have changed.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: So if if one can find a sugar-free apple pie, that would be right up there.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Good deal.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of cool things coming up.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's all of all kinds of stuff.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: It is on October 5th.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the forum is back.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we definitely listened to what everybody liked about the last one.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: So there are field trips, there is ways to get up and explore the location, hear from a keynote speaker, and lots of different types of sessions.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: So register now.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And on the 22nd, our next full partners meeting.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: October 22nd.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to the chickies.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we sure are.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Registration's open, so check out the website.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like strictly waterpartners.com.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now we had had an interesting little, I guess, behind the scenes development kind of lessons learned.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to pull the curtain back here a little bit.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to be completely transparent.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: So if you notice that the episode title of the last episode with Jeff Swinehart is a little bit different.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: We did that to uh you can search us a whole lot easier.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: One to make sure you find the Clean Water Conversation.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the new name for our first episode of season six is Saving Farms, Protecting Water, and Building a Voice.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of building voices, from the Conestoga Susquehannock tribe.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: We have three members.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Cheyenne Dumbey is a junior council member.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: And Andrea Ligen is the chairwoman.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: And Michael Mantuth, our own Michael Mantuoth, who is the director of projects for Lancaster Cleanwater partners, is a member of the tribe and their historian.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Great stuff in here.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: We talk a lot about their recognition that they're looking for.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the advocacy that they do in order to get that recognition.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I find it fascinating that one of the key pieces that came out of this was them recognizing the conservation space as one that was welcoming and an easy place to connect for clean water and for their tribe and their culture.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's a fascinating conversation.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive in.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: My role in the tribe is pretty much observing as much history as I can, the culture of just learning, so I can pass it on to the next generation.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I also try to advocate for the youth in the tribe as well.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll we'll dive into that because I'm really curious what advocacy looks like in that type of work.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start off with an icebreaker.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: And your icebreaker is this.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Where would you go to feel safe as a kid?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: As a younger child, this is Andrea.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: As a younger child, I used to go underneath the bed.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: I could climb under the bed very easy.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I became school age, second and third grade, my favorite place to go where I felt safe was the library.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Was it a love of learning or reading or has that continued?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Reading reading and learning.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were very open to you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They were instructional.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Very helpful.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and as a child when you're looking for things, you don't understand things, they kind of explained it and it made it such a nice place.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I could even stay there and do what I had to do or do my homework and call my mom that off homework and she would come take me up there.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, depending on what I had going on in school.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I found the library to be a very engaging and as an adult now I I look back, it was a a very worthwhile adventure that I did as a child and enjoyed so much.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I guess I enjoyed it so much.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's that it's really, you know, I love books, I like to read and I love learning.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Still learning at this age, I still like learning.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, it's that's how the library had affected me as a child.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: How about you, Michael?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: I like to go out into into nature.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_05: For me, a big thing is to go out to the mountains and and hike.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like I still go out to Colorado periodically, and like if I had it my way, I would just have a mountain hut somewhere.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: I just like have like like I love I love my community.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_05: I love you know the work we do and being around people periodically.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_05: But I think like my default safe zone is always like the mountain hut in the woods somewhere.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: And when I was a kid, I used to just always like go out into the woods or go out near the creek or whatever it was because like I just like to be kind of on my own looking around and seeing what's happening in the world.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: Cheyenne, how about you?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Me, I guess anywhere quiet, but typically my anywhere my mom was, I guess.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I grew up in a family full of women.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So this place is always a woman for me.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I just feel very protected and at ease.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you all for sharing.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Your individual histories include so many different elements.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: So some of which we're gonna dive into a little bit more in today's conversation.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So to start us off, maybe pick a piece of that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Describe part of your childhood, what was it like, and how did you connect with Lancaster?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Michael, you want to go first?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean, I think for me, I had a very odd childhood overall.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: So we'll glance over that a little bit.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_05: But, you know, my connection to Lancaster really kind of became clear.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: Like I'm I consider myself from Pittsburgh.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_05: I went to high school in Pittsburgh.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I would call my hometown.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_05: But, you know, when I went to college and kind of became acquainted with the tribe and made the decision to enroll and made the decision to, you know, be an active and contributing member, you know, it really reminded me why I felt the way about coming back to Pennsylvania.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: Because at the time I was in college in New Hampshire.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_05: And then after that, I took a job at Native American Bank in Colorado.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I'd always felt this like, you know, kind of draw to come back to Pennsylvania and to, and I knew when I left Pittsburgh, he was like, well, at some point I'm probably going to be back here at some point.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: I did not anticipate it would be on the eastern half of the state.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so as I started to get more involved with, you know, the tribal community and trying to really make an impact, you know, the opportunity presented itself to come back to Lancaster and to, you know, reacquaint myself with our environment and the things that we have going on here, and more importantly, being able to advocate for the tribe in a very literal sense because a lot of our physical history is still here in Lancaster.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: And a lot of that history isn't necessarily being stewarded the way it should.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_05: And so having representatives that are able to be active who are here locally has been a really important function for us.
• 8:17
  unknown: Okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Cheyenne, what is a little bit of your childhood that you could describe and how did you connect to Lancaster?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So growing up, I didn't have a strong relationship with Lancaster because I was I was Native American, but I didn't know I was a conestoga Sisquannak because we had been disconnected from our culture.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: My great great grandmother, I call her Biggie, she was an inmate at the Holy Providence Indian school.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that plays a major factor in why I didn't grow up having a connection to Lancaster, but after learning about our tribe and getting to know Michael and advocating for the tribe, I feel like I've been able to grow a relationship with Lancaster.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And Andrea, how about you?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit about maybe a piece of your childhood and how you connected to Lancaster.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was basically through my grandmother who went to Holy Providence school.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we visited Lancaster quite often.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: As a young adult, I did, along with Tiffany and my son.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I always felt at home in Lancaster when we would come there.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt very peaceful, very calming.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But until I learned like I said we knew we were Native Americans, but we didn't know who to whom we belonged until Michael came along.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that opened up a whole new world to me.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the experiences and things that I have had have really been forthcoming in my my efforts in helping to progress with the tribe and my learning more about the tribe.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been an experience.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: My my grandmother came from Lancaster County and before she went to Holy Providence.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Her mother died when she was two and a half.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't know at what age she was actually taken there.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: We found her on a census at eight years of age, listed as an inmate.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have a lot of history and we did not grow up actually in the culture as other people do on reservation.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel a little bit of a loss there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm very enthused of the way that things are opening up for us and our way of promoting and showing who we are to other people.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very important.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I know that the Kanasoga Sasquana people have a long history of working collectively with others, and that shows up in different ways at different times.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about collective advocacy today, and that itself has a really broad definition.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So what does collective advocacy mean to the tribe today?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the the collective advocacy is is like a strict requirement for our survival.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Our community is small, fewer than a hundred enrolled members, and we rely on other partners and people to amplify our message beyond our limited reach.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So even if it's word of mouth from one person to the next person to the next, you know.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we've met numerous people along our journey so far, and they are definitely for us trying to get our message out of who we are.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're still in existence.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the main thing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't even know that we exist.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big part to me, to show that we are here.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we're thriving.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: As a tribe, we are thriving.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Along that same line, Michael, you were just on the cover of LNP, the newspaper.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Top of the fold.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, which is, by the way, not an acronym, LNP.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: It used to stand for Lancaster newspapers, it is just LNP now.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: I try to best can when I can.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta be careful with what I say.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you were just on the on the main cover, you were just talking about this very issue about how there's so many people that believe that the Conestoga tribe died out back in what, the 1700s?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: 1760.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh can you can you tell us a little bit about that and maybe dispel this misinformation?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean I think it's interesting, you know, that survival piece for collective advocacy is actually quite literal in some ways because when we look historically, so in 1763, we have a treaty in 1701 that establishes 16,000 acres for us in perpetuity in what's now Conestoga, Pennsylvania.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_05: And in 1763, as with our previous peace treaties, it had been broken by colonists who killed everyone who was president of the town at that time, who then returned and killed everyone who survived that initial attack.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: And so from 1763, December 14th, I believe it is, every kind of major source of records claims our tribe is extinct.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: But in 1764, not even one full year after the massacred Penn wrote a public letter calling for the protection of two survivors of the massacre.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: And then of course we had right before the Revolutionary War, in 17, I want to say 67, I'd have to look that up.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: But there's a land claim that is made.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_05: And so those land claimants were paid$300 by the Penn family to go back to New York because our language is mutually intelligible with the languages of the Haw Noshone tribes in New York.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_05: So that's part of the collective advocacy that we're going to talk about here briefly because that letter confirmed that there's initial survivors.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_05: They return, they ask for the land, they're given$300 and sent back to New York.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_05: The Revolutionary War happens.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_05: Now we don't even know legally, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like our tribal history is interrupted by the formation of the United States as an independent country.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: So now, from a legal point of view, like where do you take those land claims?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_05: And so in 1845, you see the first formal land claims which were filed by seven Conestoga descendants who were living and surviving among the Oneida in New York at the time.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_05: But before that, even you see the collective advocacy come into play because all seven of those same land claimants also signed on to an 1831 agreement claiming that the Oneida would be, you know, quote, good Christian Indians and stay in New York to avoid being removed, which ultimately did not succeed.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: A good chunk of the Oneida were forcibly removed west regardless.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_05: That was you see these all these collective advocacy attempts that happened kind of between different tribes that are all collectively trying to figure out how we can survive this process of colonization and hold on to some semblance of our land, of our culture, of our language, of those kinds of things.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so those 1845 land claimants wrote letters to President Grant that we have now.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: They got a federal bill introduced in 1872 that would have returned our land.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: They even had a state bill that was passed in 1941 that would have given us a reservation over in Dauphin County.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, all of these things are public legal records.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_05: You'll find us marked as Indian, quote unquote, on the census.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_05: You will find us marked as Indian on death records or things like that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so this prevailing narrative that there's no tribes in Pennsylvania or that no tribes in Pennsylvania are legitimate comes largely from, I think, the inconvenience of such a thing.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_05: Because if there's 16,000 acres in Conestoga that doesn't have clear land title, that's a big problem.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's a big problem for a lot of people.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_05: And so to recognize the tribe then has an interesting legal question.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_05: If the if the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania recognizes the tribe survived, then does that give us legal standing to pursue that 16,000 acres we were promised?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: So the most convenient thing to do, of course, is to be, well, we you guys didn't survive, actually.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_05: And if you did survive in in sort of lineal descent, you did not survive as a political unit, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: Which is what would be required for recognition.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_05: But when we can show all these documents of us seeking recognition over time, it's like that's clearly a political unit.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's part of our ongoing argument today to educate people.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_05: For me, it's incredibly frustrating that this county has so much resources about the massacre itself and so much information about like what happened that day.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: And there's people who've done like hour by hour time.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, the people go into extreme detail.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_05: They know way more about this than even I do.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_05: But they've never looked beyond that to see any.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, there's tons of newspaper records about our tribe.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_05: In 1961, we honored Governor David Lawrence.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_05: We gave him a headdress and everything.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_05: There's pictures in the newspaper at the time.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_05: We were in Time magazine in the 1940s.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: Like, gosh, this is a very well-documented fact.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_05: But it's also a very inconvenient fact that pertains to a very small number of people who are both racially, culturally, linguistically different from the rest of Pennsylvania by a large margin.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_05: And so for us to have that conversation with the public at large and be like, hey, yeah, you know, it might seem surprising how overwhelming the amount of evidence there is, but you don't have to take my word for it, right?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's all out there.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Are there state or federally recognized tribes in New York?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: If those people were moved to New York, were they politically or legally tied to that group then moving forward?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_05: And so you'll see today, like, for example, 100% of the federal government requires that you only be a member of one tribe, regardless of how many you're eligible to be enrolled in.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_05: And so we have a separate list, which are people who are not technically enrolled in our tribe because they are enrolled somewhere else.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_05: But they're acknowledging that they also have Conestoga ancestry by joining MATLAB list.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_05: And every single one of those people are enrolled in the Oneida Nation, which is a federally recognized tribe in Ukraine.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: A larger, yeah, yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_05: And that comes with health insurance.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_05: That comes with, you know, Bureau of Indian Affairs benefits.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_05: So like part of why we established that list was really to give people the opportunity to continue to participate in Conestoga Susquehanna culture without having to walk away from their health insurance through the Bureau of Indian Affairs or any of those other major benefits.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, thank you for that history lesson.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry that to make it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So give us a little bit more from any of you how you have done that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it's been more in the recent times, but your research shows that's been happening for a long time.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So give us a little bit more about that side of your your work and your culture.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: As far as as working collectively, Cheyenne was included in this as well.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: We had gone to Harrisburg to meet with state representatives.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, they had no clue at all that we existed or that we were actually Native Americans from the state of Pennsylvania.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they were totally flower gasted by the information, everything that we needed to they took time to talk with us and to listen to us.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately it stopped there.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: It did not go any further.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's as though no one wants to touch it or they're not interested, I'm not sure.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it it stopped at that point.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that hasn't stopped us.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have still reached out to other people.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the mayor in Howard's Burg we reached out to her, the one in Dolphin County, Mayor Williams.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: We've reached out to so many different places and sometimes we don't get responses back, and sometimes we do.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: It still doesn't stop us at all.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We will still continue with this.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm no longer here.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I will fight as long as I can.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever efforts I can put forth that will help in our endeavors to achieve the state recognition is one and possibly the federal recognition under the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm here to fight all the way and do whatever I can do as long as I can do it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: It goes right along with the history of the tribe and its persistence.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And even if we're thwarted at one avenue that does not stop us from continuing to keep trying and doing and presenting who we are and our information, it's a shame that our schools, especially in Lancaster, does not engage us to present ourselves to tell our story so that these children are aware of who we are, where we came from, what our tribe went through, and where we are today.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it it it's a shame there's no type of curriculum set up for that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's um that's heartening.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: But like I said, it it doesn't stop us.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: We we're still fighting and we're and we're still gonna push forward.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Who or what groups would you say are some of your most effective allies?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So much of what we do in a collaborative approach in Lancaster is finding that common ground, but acknowledging that we're not all going to agree all the time.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so who would you or what makes an effective ally to be able to do that type of collaborative approach?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_05: I can start a little bit on this just because of some of the projects that I've worked on.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, I think one of the areas we've found.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: The most success, and we haven't quite cracked the code yet.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I think as Andrea mentioned, we we send out a lot of communication or we try to make those connections and people are receptive or they're not.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and we haven't quite figured out what makes someone receptive or not receptive, right?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and what that we we haven't figured out where exactly that line is.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: But one thing I found really interesting is in in sort of how I position our argument for recognition is also it being mutually beneficial, not just for individual people, but for the state as a whole, because every Pennsylvanian is paying federal taxes into programs that are earmarked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: So no one in Pennsylvania can benefit from those programs because Pennsylvania does not recognize any tribes, but we're all paying for that on some level.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I find when I approach things from that angle to help people understand that like it's not just a benefit for the tribe to be recognized.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: It would be a benefit to everyone to be recognized.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think it was in Idaho, their five federally recognized tribes contribute over$11 billion to the state economy every year.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: Whoa, the opportunity there to not just do what's right, but to do what's mutually beneficial is substantial.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's where we've often found our best angles to work with people.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_05: And that's often lined up with the conservation space.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like I think interestingly, our ability to co-sign, I think, on certain environmental efforts or or grant applications to let people know on the funding side that like Lancaster County is not the most diverse county on the face of the earth, but our organizations here are still taking steps to include the minority and sort of ethnic minorities that do exist here in this work.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_05: And when I have those conversations with like Conestoga River Club is a good example, we've worked with them repeatedly now, or with River Stewards is another one and land studies, you know, those affiliated.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_05: We've worked a lot with them and and Laurel over there.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I found what makes a good partnership is both the understanding that capacity isn't always there to do everything that everyone wants to do all the time, but being willing to put some kind of tangible benefit to things and to have the tribe then provide a tangible benefit in return so that you can build that relationship in a meaningful and practical way, because I'm a very like, I like to know like, like, what are the things that are being done though?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like, like, you know, how much impact is this really having?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the the conservation space really understands the opportunity that that lies in consulting with indigenous people and also the opportunity that lies in in building those relationships over time as the tribe continues to build its resources and its ability to support that work.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Andrea, you mentioned that the schools and the curriculum and that as an opportunity.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And Michael, you're describing what seems like a need for more education.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: How do you encourage people to take action or to be involved when they may have no background in this and feel very uncomfortable stepping into it because they may put their foot in their mouth.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So how yeah, how do you embrace that or welcome it?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or is that really not part of what you can do?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't even know how to ask the question correctly, but I'm yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I that I can mention is last December we held an event.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And church was gracious enough to allow us to space.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we had basically posted it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Surprisingly, the amount of people that came if and it was icy and it was snowy.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: It it was a very cold winter day.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: December 14th, we did it on the date of one of the massacres.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was important to us.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And people came from the tour of Canada to this event to see us and to talk with us.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: We also that particular day received a confirmation from Manchester City of the three commissioners exactly who had confirmed on this.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And afterwards, the people were lined up asking questions and offering any thoughts or things that they may have regarding anything that couldn't help us.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was such an enlightening day, and we were so surprised at the amount of people that actually were there that were interested.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that the people were actually interested and engaging.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was engaging.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that was so heartening to me that particular day for them to understand who we are, where we came from.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our tribe has persisted, and people have persisted all these years, hundreds of years, to try and not be erased by the government and by by history itself.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was just very heartening for me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: I think that goes back to, you know, one of the most important things people can do is just provide space.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: For that for that story to be heard and to provide opportunities for people to engage with that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think it's a very dense topic for the uninitiated, I think.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like Native American identity broadly defined.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_05: I think it was like most schools, I think it was like 80 plus percent of schools don't teach any Native American history after 1900.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_05: You know, if you're not native, your your access or understanding to this information is probably very limited.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_05: Just because it's not going to be part of your lived experience.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_05: And if it's not part of your lived experience, it's definitely not going to be part of your school experience, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_05: Or you know, these other daily parts of your life that you're going to be involved in.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the biggest thing I could advise people to do is one, we have a great tribal history course on the website.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's free.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's a good place to start.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_05: And I think really approaching things with that open frame of mind.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: But I think the most important thing for people to understand is one, that tribes exist and that these tribes have sovereign rights and powers.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_05: And so their ability to control their narrative, right, and their history and their membership and all kinds of things.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: Some tribes issue passports for their citizens.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, some tribes, I mean, there is a wide range of what that sovereignty can look like.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: And I think one of the most important things, especially here in Lancaster, that that people can kind of understand or educate themselves on in terms of the concept of sovereignty is like who has the right to speak on behalf of certain issues or topics.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: And in making sure that like when we provide that space and those opportunities, that it is someone who's qualified to speak on behalf of the larger group.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the most common case you see, right, is is someone who claims to be Cherokee but has no meaningful connections to Cherokee community.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_05: So like, is that an appropriate person to represent the Cherokee tribe on like, I don't know, a countywide like initiative on Native American issues?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: Probably not.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_05: And I think having some vague understanding that like it's actually not offensive at all to ask somebody what tribe they're from.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's not offensive at all.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_05: Like when we introduce ourselves, like as Cheyenne did at the beginning of this podcast, you know, we will tell you who our who we are, who our clan is, who our relatives are, because a lot of times we find out we're related.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um across completely different tribes.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: So that's a way, you know, of establishing, like, oh, who are you?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: And this is who I am, and we know each other in this way.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_05: And I think, you know, it would go a long way for people to feel confident in their decision making if they understood the difference between a sovereign tribe and an individual that makes claims that are probably vague or unfounded.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: And any tribal enrollment office, for example, will answer that question if you ask them.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_05: And we've had people ask us, oh, is this person an enrolled member?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_05: And we can either be like, no, because we don't know them at all, or no, and we know them and that they're not native.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_05: We've had cases where, you know, we get some pretty kooky messages in our inbox sometimes.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_05: I think there has to be that advocacy, not just for our tribal history, but for the relationship that tribes ought to have with local governments like Langston.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_05: We are not the only tribe with any connection to this county.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_05: We're the only tribe that remains here.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_05: But in bringing in other sovereign tribes, it's really important to understand those dynamics, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_05: And why they will take issue if you put somebody on the panel with them who does not have tribal enrollment or who is not willing to share who their ancestors are.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_05: I think for organizations to be able to wrap their head around that is really challenging.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_05: I think Laurel Edder Longenecker over at River Stewards has done a tremendous amount of work, both in the field of bringing indigenous representation into conservation here in Pennsylvania, but also in educating herself and her kind of colleagues about what is appropriate to do.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_05: And so I guess for listeners, Laurel is a great person to reach out to if you have questions.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_05: You can always reach out to me if you have questions, but it's not an impossible task, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know, to educate yourself and to kind of learn a little bit.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: And there's going to be missteps along the way, but the good news is we're not thin-skinned people.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you know, it's it's interesting.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like people ask all the time, like, oh, do you say, you know, Native American or Indian or, you know, all these different things?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's like it really depends on who you talk to.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_05: But like I know plenty of people where it's like they'd be offended if you called them anything other than Indian.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_05: So it's just it's it's understanding that all natives are different.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: We have 578, I think, federally recognized tribes now.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_05: So there's gonna be people all over the spectrum, both politically in terms of what they think is appropriate and all these things.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_05: I think the number one issue that people might run into in Lancaster is this idea that like everyone is kind of the spaghetti western, you know, kind of stereotypical Native American feature when, you know, in reality, you're gonna have drastically different experiences from tribe to tribe, even when they're like 20 miles from each other.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this podcast is called Clean Water Conversations.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very curious.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Your relationship with the Susquehanna River that goes back generations.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, how does that connection shape the issues that you advocate for today?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Or you mentioned specifically conservation work, and there are more easily identified connections with land and water and cultural conservation-related connections.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us more about that.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: How does that connection take shape?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_05: I think on the conservation side, part of why that collective advocacy has worked the way it has, and I'll tell a little bit of that story, is because people in the conservation space were looking for that opportunity.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Do you think more so than others?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_05: More so than other spaces, yes.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like I genuinely think like the conservation space, particularly in Lancaster County, is quite self-aware.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_05: And they see and want to improve on, you know, representing other pieces of Lancaster.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: And so when we approach them, there's a natural receptiveness that's already there.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: And that builds momentum and synergy that we couldn't have anticipated when we, you know, started those relationships.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_05: I think the small clean water fund is a perfect example of that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, when the tribal nonprofit was awarded that grant to do a documentary about the Conestoga River, we did not know at that time that Conestoga River was going to be river of the year.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_05: Nope.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_05: We did not know at that time that we were going to meet Laurel and have these other relationships take place that would allow us to do the screening at the Zotropolis.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we did not know that that would lead to the Window Keepers Award, which then led to the newspaper article, which has now led to a TV slot that they want to do.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like all of these things, right, kind of move together when you start to find those pieces in your the people who will get in your corner and work with you.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I think, you know, as a tribe, we've kind of spread a very wide net to try to see like, well, what are we going to bring in if we send all of this out and put all these efforts out?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_05: And so watching that come all from the result of like a single$1,800 mini grant, right?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's exciting for me because I'm thinking, like, okay, Cheyenne, when are you going to get the next grant?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_05: And what kind of return on investment are we going to see from that?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: Because in terms of like reporting, the the small clean water fund has got a significant return on that.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_05: We as a tribe have got a significant return on that investment.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's what really encourages me and encourages our partners to continue to engage even through some of those uncomfortable realities, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_05: Of navigating a culture or a legal structure that you're just not familiar with.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Does the tribe stay, and Cheyenne or Andrea, maybe this is more relevant where you are as well.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a connection to conservation or outdoor space or specific elements of nature that are really important to you and your connection to the tribe?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it goes back to the relationship of the water from our tribe with the Susquehanna River.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that whenever our tribe faced any violence or or inhospitable conditions, our tribe always turned to the water.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And from the water also gave them life as far as water for their crops.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when I think back in history to our ancestors, it seems so irrelevant to today that our waterways, just as Michael Food conservation, should be protected just as the contact has a problem with food dumping in it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that shouldn't be.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: These are the things that I find should be protected.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is something that'll last long, long after we're gone.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Cheyenne, maybe you want to give your answer to that at this time.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna I'm gonna Colin told you, Cheyenne.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_05: She was like traumatized by the state of the conestogo when we went out to film because it was just after a sewer over.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was uh Oh my god.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, oh my god, it's it's not terrible, but it's the conservation of the river and getting it cleaned.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to me, especially because we still use the conesphoga and the Susquehanna River for ceremonial events or rites of passage.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think right there you could just do a mic drop.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that pretty much that's that sums up a lot of you know why we're doing what we do, why our partners are doing what they do.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean to have our our waterways in the state that they're in is you know We're not okay with that.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: And we and our partners, including the tribe, are out there trying to do something about it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Doing that collective advocacy and action that's tied to it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we've been talking a lot about history.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh final question for you for now, because we could keep going and going.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, what does successful collective advocacy look like for you or the tribe in five or ten years from now?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've been busy recently.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: But looking ahead, what are some of the things that you envision as part of that collective advocacy as it continues?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: For one, legal recognition for our community.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's very important.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that the ultimate goal, I believe, is for our our members to have a permanent place within our historic homeland and to be able to appreciate them.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: We want to bring community back together.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it sounds like collective advocacy may look like success for those topics, those initiatives you've been working on for a long time.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there will be some element of that that may never change.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think there will always be a need for public education and engagement, as you're saying, at those events with lots of people.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, definitely.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but it's it's it's basically a physical community gathering, and we want to be able to have a place where we can do this and and as Cheyenne mentioned, have our ceremonies and and our passage of of rights.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And right now we don't have that.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's the unfortunate part.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And but we're striving and we're not giving up.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: I kind of have I think two frames of mind about it.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think there's select there's that successful collective advocacy from the perspective of the tribe versus from the perspective of our partnership, right?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: With with the Lancaster Clean Water Partners and that broader goal of clean water in Lancaster County by 2040, right?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um I think as a tribe, you know, Andre is right that it that's collective advocacy being successful looks like that legal recognition.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_05: And it looks like having a place to call home in Lancaster County.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_05: It looks like, you know, us being able to say who we are legally and not be in violation of the law.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_05: You know, today we can't call our businesses native loaned where we are violating the law.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_05: We can't call our art native made or violating the law.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, all of those things I think are part of that tribal vision.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: But I think it's part of that larger Lancaster collective advocacy.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_05: I think the success looks like the ability to go into the Conestoga River on any given point in time and not be worried that you're going to get sick from it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_05: You know, as Cheyenne mentioned, you know, our ceremonies and rites of passage need those waterways.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: And so like imagine that your place of worship has has sewage running through it on a regular basis, or that you're not able to physically enter your church periodically throughout the month because if you did, you would become sick.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_05: So I think that larger success in five to ten years really looks like being able to freely access those waterways without having those kinds of concerns.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: And having that relationship in the county too, where it's not just concerns about the water quality, but even like people will know why we're there and what we're doing.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and we're not going to be like confronted or harassed by people who don't understand why we're there or what we're doing.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's that understanding or awareness that, like, oh, like there are indigenous people in Lancaster and you might periodically see them on the river, right?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_05: You might periodically see them as they go about their business, right?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_05: And not have that be such a surprising thing.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_05: And to be able to say, like, oh, I'm a member of this tribe and here's our history, and not have the first reaction from everyone I meet, be like, oh, I had no idea.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like that's what I feel like that looks like long term.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_05: It's just like people being aware and being able to access those spaces more freely because of the clean water work we've gotten done.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Cheyenne, I'm struck by your comments earlier that women played such an important part of your background and your life and shaping who you are from the Turtle Clan to your mom to your grandma.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like for you five to ten years from now?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: That I I see that connection of women and leadership.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think an important thing to add is that our tribe is matrilineal.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's led by the woman.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Something that I really want to see in the future.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that my mom probably would have talked about if she was here, she wants to open a shelter for single moms.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we experienced something that is a universal experience within the tribe is homelessness or having experienced housing instability.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think with that recognition, we would be able to have the money and the infrastructure to provide housing for the members of our tribe.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is a powerful component of your entire cultural goals.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember that part of the tribe is led by the female.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Did my did I hear that right?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_05: So our last male leader was 1941.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: 41.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's been a while.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_05: And like the Council of Mothers have to approve basically anything that happens.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_05: And that's been true since I mean the colonists were very confused about this.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like in colonial records, they were very confused about this.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, so typically, like if you're native if your mom is native.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: And you join your mother's longhouse.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_05: If you get if I get married, then I would join her longhouse.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and there's so many similarities to other religions and cultures, as you mentioned, what goes through your church or how you experience your spiritual connection.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not we're all the same people.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's not that different.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_05: That female leadership piece, I think, is something I'm always inspired by, like with Andrea and Tiffany and even Mary Scanendor, who's on our tribal council periodically.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_05: But it's that understanding that like our culture might be different, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_05: But it has been quite effective for us.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we have come to my favorite part of the podcast here, and that is trivia time.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: There are a couple of things that I'm going to cover in this trivia.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Andrea, I think you definitely will latch onto it and do very well.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I I learned a few things about you guys.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, Cheyenne, you're welcome to join in in this trivia as well, if if you know the answer.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that you and Tiffany, who's not here when it was originally going to be on this podcast, have been turned on to K-pop by a younger person in the tribe.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Is that correct?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: So so the first one is going to be about K-pop.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: The first question is what are the fans of the K-pop group BTS officially called?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Army.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Army.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, this is going to be fun.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am part of Army.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am Army.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you were also a Philadelphia police officer, is that correct?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: The Philadelphia Police Department is one of the oldest municipal police departments in the country.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know when it was founded?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Around 1798, somewhere in there.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not exactly.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely going to going to give that one to you.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was impressive.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was 1797.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 43:49
  unknown: Yep.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: You well, you you said 1796 and you said 1798.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, there you go.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 43:55
  unknown: Yep.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well done.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Doggone.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Back to K-pop.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: True or false, the K-pop band 17 is composed of 17 members.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, nice.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know how many they actually have?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: I only know because I looked it up, but I'm trying to remember.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I used to listen to them all the time.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like 12 or 13.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Just for that.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they have 13 official members divided into hip hop, vocal, and performance units.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: Impressive stuff.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Impressive stuff.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: Back to the Philadelphia Police.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: What was the nickname of the uniquely designed former headquarters at 750 Race Street?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was indeed the Groundhouse, yeah.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: We are just crushing this.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is great.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are doing awesome.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Back to K-pop.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: What 2012 song by Cy became a global phenomenon and the first YouTube video to hit 1 billion views?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, Gunham Style.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: It is gunnum style.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Please, according to the Philadelphia Police Department website, one of the most frequently asked questions is my relative was arrested.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Who should I call?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: What answer do they list?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I would say if their relative was arrested, they should call a lawyer.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think she should get a changed.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's not wrong at all.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: If the relatively arrested, you should call a lawyer.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that would be my that would be my answer.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: But that's the greatest answer we've had on trivial.
• 45:40
  unknown: I like it.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: According to the according to the website.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: According to the according to the website, uh call the police detention unit and they will assist you.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they get actually give a phone number there.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: But they won't give you much information.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: A lawyer will be able to get a lot more information for you.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: One more question.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: K-pop.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: Which girl group made history in 2019 as the first K-pop group to perform at the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: They are on it.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: That is the end of our trivia.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: That is the end of our show.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Cheyenne.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Michael.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: Andrea.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for coming in and telling us about the Conestoga Susquehannock tribe.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: If people want to learn more information, where would they go?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_05: Our website's the best place to go.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_05: It has that free tribal history course I'm going to plug it in.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_05: And it is, in fact, the first thing that comes up on Google when you search for us now.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_05: So it uh you can find us pretty easily.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_05: Conestoga Susquehannock Tribe.com.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you all so much.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And we will be back in just a couple of weeks.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Until then, take care.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everybody.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome from my puppy.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Cleanwater Conversations is brought to you by Lancaster Clean Water Partners.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you have comments or suggestions on show topics, or would like to be a sponsor for a season or an episode of Cleanwater Conversations, send us an email at infotlancaster cleanwaterpartners.com.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for listening.