Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Hospitality | Neil Jacobs | S7 E13

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Future of Hospitality | Neil Jacobs | S7 E13 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:24:24 Speaker 2 Hello and welcome to this week's very exciting episode of Future of XYZ. We're just about to head into official summer. and we're talking about something that matters during summer, which is hospitality. The future of hospitality, to be exact. And our guest is Neil Jacobs. Neil, thanks so much for joining us on Future of XYZ today. 00:00:25:01 - 00:00:27:23 Speaker 1 My pleasure. It's great to be here, Lisa. 00:00:28:00 - 00:00:50:08 Speaker 2 Well, I'm really thrilled to have you. It's quite an honor. You have quite a legacy in the hospitality industry, especially luxury hotels. you. I know for a fact you were, oversaw group operations at the Four Seasons for a long time in Asia Pacific. you were at Starwood Capital and kind of launched the Bakura, hotels brand. 00:00:50:08 - 00:01:19:06 Speaker 2 The one hotels. but more importantly and relevant, you purchased Six Senses, which we will talk about, which is an incredible luxury, hotel and spa wellness, group, in 2012 and have been the CEO, since then, including, managing the sale of it to IHG, which is, Intercontinental hotel Group international, publicly traded company in your home land of of England. 00:01:19:08 - 00:01:20:03 Speaker 1 That’s correct. 00:01:20:05 - 00:01:41:18 Speaker 2 I know in kind of our conversations to date, we have lots of thoughts about what hospitality is. But you come from this kind of long, hotel background. You studied hotel management among other things. You speak lots of languages. You've been all over the world. You split your time still all over the world. So I think you have a pretty unique perspective. 00:01:41:19 - 00:01:54:13 Speaker 2 I, I'm going to start as we always start these conversations, Neil, with defining the topic at hand. So in your estimation and your expertise, how do we define hospitality. 00:01:54:15 - 00:02:17:14 Speaker 1 Oh that's a that's a big question. And and and the big word and certainly, you know, the segment of hospitality that I've been involved in for the last, you know, 30 plus years is, is generally at the high end. And that's something we can talk about a bit more. So I think today, you know, certainly when we talk to our customers, hospitality is about time. 00:02:17:14 - 00:02:57:03 Speaker 1 You know, their time is very, very precious of people that stay stay in our hotels, as is privacy. And you know, people cherish, our guests cherish that ability to, you know, spend time with their families to, to to be with their friends, or to do nothing or to do absolutely nothing. So, you know, we we're very good at helping people do nothing, and we're very good at, you know, I think people who succeed in hospitality, are very good at providing that kind of, of feeling. 00:02:57:05 - 00:03:40:16 Speaker 1 That said, you know, things are changing and certainly, perhaps in a, in a post-Covid world or you could argue even before, you know, people want to come away from, hospitality experience feeling that, that there's more of a takeaway than just being in a, you know, luxury hotel, you know, we don't actually use that word at six senses, but being in, in a high end hotel, you know, at, at at that level of the business, you know, you've got to have great food, you've got to have great service, you got to have a good night's sleep. 00:03:40:18 - 00:04:17:07 Speaker 1 But that kind of is a given. So it's like, what's the rest of it all about? What is the experience that you are going through? What do you leave with that makes it a, a memorable time in, in a world where time is essential. So I think those that are able to create those real takeaways, that is not something you just find in every single hospitality outlet or every single good hotel. 00:04:17:09 - 00:04:31:01 Speaker 1 And it doesn't even have to be a, a super upscale hotel. It's like, what is the takeaway from a stay that gives you more and that that can do that, in our view, are really hospitable today. 00:04:31:03 - 00:04:57:06 Speaker 2 Well, you've just transmuted the word, which is of course, its origin story is hospitality. It's that being hospitable. And that was about humans, like treating other people in welcoming. I mean, you know, whether it was, you know, when you're in the country and someone was crossing by foot or by, you know, by whatever means, we once upon a time traveled, you were showing hospitality or being hospitable by inviting people in and providing for them. 00:04:57:06 - 00:05:03:15 Speaker 2 And I think you've just kind of summed up modern hospitality by doing that exceptionally well. 00:05:03:17 - 00:05:38:15 Speaker 1 Well thank you. But, you know, we we I’ll give you a little example, you know, because it's it's not always it's not generally about the big things because, you know, you, money and good taste can create the environment, right? Can create the buildings and the interiors and oohs and the aahs about that. But it's really the small stuff that people remember and that people talk about. 00:05:38:17 - 00:06:08:13 Speaker 1 And, you know, one example of that, you know, with our own group is, is and this came about during Covid, actually, is, is that every hotel was charged with creating a welcome and departure ritual so that when you arrived, something happened at the front door. And the same when you, when you left. and, you know, I can give you an example. 00:06:08:15 - 00:06:36:06 Speaker 1 I mean, take Ibiza for example. You know, because we wanted every hotel to have something very different that was reflective of the, the context of where that hotel was, is. Right. So Ibiza which can be, you know, a tiny bit woowoo and out there, you know, you would come and you'd get out of the car or out of the cabin, someone would be at the front door and they'd have incense burning. 00:06:36:06 - 00:07:14:02 Speaker 1 They'd be wearing feathers, shamanic feathers. They would have rattles and fire. they would do this cleanse of you. So you would be standing there and, the shaman would be doing his or her thing. But basically the intent of it was to set the intention for your stay. What do you want to achieve out of the next one, two, four, six, 14 days or whatever, how long you were going to stay in the property? 00:07:14:04 - 00:07:42:02 Speaker 1 And, and they would bless that they would ask you to kind of verbalize that and they would bless it with it as part of a shamanic ritual. Believe me. You know, that's what people talked about. Yeah. When they leave, you cannot believe what they did to me when we arrived. Right? So that's the beauty of those kinds of that kind of content, if you like. 00:07:42:05 - 00:07:47:09 Speaker 1 And it's not fake. I mean, it's it's it's real. It wasn't just show business, you know. 00:07:47:12 - 00:08:12:11 Speaker 2 Well, that's the piece of it. That's the piece of it, right? Is you're pulling in some kind of cultural, experience already. I mean, I'm there bunch of threads to pull on, but one that I'm curious about specifically about six senses. I was looking through your values, and one of them is emotional hospitality. I'm curious, what that means. 00:08:12:11 - 00:08:18:03 Speaker 2 And and is this tied to this kind of intention setting in some ways. 00:08:18:05 - 00:08:53:19 Speaker 1 Very much so. I mean, when we created those values and agonized over them, this was kind of, you know, not long after we we bought the company in 2012. You know, everyone thought of us somewhat as an Asian company because we were, you know, we grew up in Asia, right. And and when I, when the group I was with bought, bought six senses, you know, 95% of the properties were, villas on beaches in Southeast Asia. 00:08:53:21 - 00:09:18:04 Speaker 1 And that's no longer the case. Right. But that's what we were then, and that's what people thought of it. Oh, Asian group and Asian hospitality. Yeah, right. Which is kind of world renowned and is a thing. Right. So but I wanted to be sure that we weren't put in that box because that's not how I wanted the world to see six senses. 00:09:18:04 - 00:09:46:16 Speaker 1 Given that our intention was to create a global platform, which in fact we did over the years. So it's like, what did we want to achieve from the hospitality piece of, of, of what we were doing. So it was very much about, you know, our mission, the mission we created was about connection, you know, connection. And this comes back to time as well. 00:09:46:21 - 00:10:17:24 Speaker 1 Connection with yourself, which is often missing when busy business people and families and so on, but not only with yourself, but what we what we defined was the world and, others and the world around you. Right. And and that was the mission. So the emotional hospitality piece is all really about what's the texture of how you, as we call them, hosts, not employees. 00:10:18:00 - 00:10:48:17 Speaker 1 As a host of six senses, what's the texture of that connection that you're able to create with the guest? Right. And, you know, one of our competitors talks about, you know, ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen and, and that's, you know, which I think is all is great, but the connection that we're looking for, it's not quite as structured as that. 00:10:48:17 - 00:11:21:23 Speaker 1 We want people to really interact, to get as personal as they can possibly get without crossing the line, but just kind of being that, being attentive, super attentive and without being invasive, you know, and we have this concept of people that we call gems at our hotel, which I guess stands for, guest experience maker, you know, but we just call them gems, which sounds so much better, right? 00:11:21:23 - 00:11:50:16 Speaker 1 Because they are gems and these people are charged. We don't really have concierge in the resort. but the gems are charged with. They own you. You know, when when we go through the arrival list on any particular day, you know, gems are allocated guests. So these three reservations, these are your people day night for as long as they stay. 00:11:50:18 - 00:12:10:20 Speaker 1 So you are in the restaurant of breakfast talking about what do they want to do? What do they want to feel? What do they want to experience that day? Where do they want? What do they want? I mean, it's it's about curating as far as possible without, as I say, again, being invasive. 00:12:11:01 - 00:12:30:12 Speaker 2 But it's but it's interesting because that's a very hyper personalized experience, which is, of course, in hospitality, one of the major trends that we're hearing about and seeing. But you're trying to make it personalized. I will say that it all. And and having spent a tiny bit of time in hospitality in Asia writing case study for the Mandarin Oriental group 00:12:30:14 - 00:12:30:21 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:12:31:01 - 00:12:53:10 Speaker 2 In business school. yeah. I think it's really interesting to hear you speak about this and also to say, like, I mean, this is all very luxury travel. I mean, and and I know you and I chatted about a little bit like the idea of luxury feels like it's become democratized, but actually the, the, the accessibility that most of us have is still quite low. 00:12:53:12 - 00:13:12:15 Speaker 2 how do you kind of think about that when you think about the gems and you think about, just the experience, like, how does luxury play in and how do we make it more accessible if it's possible, as the whole travel and hospitality industry seems to be rising higher and higher in some ways? 00:13:12:17 - 00:13:54:11 Speaker 1 Well, I, you know, one of the groups that I also I'm doing some work with at this moment is a group called Potato Head. great name. It's a great name. Potato head started in Bali. and you know, started in the business of doing day beach clubs or a day beach club and was so successful and, you know, had 2 or 3000 people a day were going through this extraordinary beach club in Seminyak in Bali, and, and then added hotel to it. 00:13:54:11 - 00:14:33:12 Speaker 1 And added, yeah, were adding elements to it. Their view, you know, their take I mean it is cool. It is trendy, it is music. It is, you know, sunbathing and cocktails in, in Bali. But it's also high degree of sustainability. So the activities that they take care of, how they do look after the environment, how they are looking at energy, how how they are integrating with community is is as good as it gets. 00:14:33:14 - 00:15:06:03 Speaker 1 And they've also found a way with wellness that it needn’t, you know, cost 350 US for, you know, 55 minute massage or, or something. And okay, for now, maybe you can't do that everywhere in super high labor cost environments, but, you know, in a middle cost bracket, you can do it and you can, you know, have room rates that are more affordable. 00:15:06:03 - 00:15:31:15 Speaker 1 I'm not going to say they’re cheap. They're not cheap, but they're not $1,000 a night. They might be $400 a night or $500 a night, and you need some more volume. But there are ways to do it. You know, there are ways to do it. But again, you have to have the right intention. Everybody tends to want to be in super high end or in very, very limited service. 00:15:31:17 - 00:16:10:24 Speaker 1 It's that middle piece where people want these experiences, but they don't want to spend a thousand and $1,500 an hour understandable or can't, and, you know, it does exist. And Potato Head puts itself right in the middle of that pack, and hence the great success they have had. And I'm helping them actually expand it around, around the world, because I think it needs to we need to do as an industry, we need to do a better job at creating those kinds of feelings and emotion and connection. 00:16:11:01 - 00:16:13:10 Speaker 1 at a less expensive price point. 00:16:13:12 - 00:16:38:17 Speaker 2 I and I really appreciate that. I also, Neil, appreciate, your focus through Potato Head specifically on talking about sustainability. Obviously, Six Senses is also about that, which is how I came to understand about Six Senses. Yeah. You know, I think, you know, sustainability, eco consciousness, community impact are kind of core tenants of yours, at least since the beginning of Six Senses and maybe more. 00:16:38:19 - 00:16:56:17 Speaker 2 I'm curious a how you came to that realization. But moreover, as you look ahead, because you're stepping down as CEO of Six Senses in the coming days and moving to what's next, how is the industry actually shaping up on the sustainability and impact front? 00:16:56:19 - 00:17:30:00 Speaker 1 well, I could talk to you about that for the rest of the day. Right. But, you know, let's be honest, as an industry, we're not that good at it, right? Collectively, and it's just never really been a top, top priority. You know, people are doing more than they were a few years ago, but still, perhaps not not perhaps still not not doing enough. 00:17:30:05 - 00:18:07:05 Speaker 1 Yeah, right. And so that's that's a concern. However, I'm grateful that they are doing more and people are doing more. And so it's small steps and it will get there. Six senses has always had sustainability as a core value from day one. Even before we bought the company. In fact, it was that sustainability platform that really drove me to say this, this is the company I would like to be connected with, because I also think we can expand it and do more with it. 00:18:07:05 - 00:18:15:10 Speaker 1 And, but but from nearly coming up to 30 years ago, they, they were ahead of their time. 00:18:15:12 - 00:18:24:15 Speaker 2 Which was zero waste, zero plastics, these kinds of things were, you know, reuse of towels like eco friendly local labor, those kinds of things. Correct. 00:18:24:17 - 00:18:51:07 Speaker 1 All of it. All of it. And and plus there was always a, you know, we up the game a little bit, but there was always a percentage of revenue. In our case, it was now half a percent. But when you look at the rates, we, you know, and consequently the values you're talking, hundreds of thousands of dollars, right. 00:18:51:09 - 00:19:26:00 Speaker 1 actually probably talking in the millions yearly. throughout the company because we, you know, we allocate, we don't charge, we don't put it on a bill as an extra, but we allocate half a percent of revenue to sustainable practices. That do not take place within the hotel. So we don't want anyone to say, oh, it's just that taking our money and then, you know, it's all these initiatives within the hotel. 00:19:26:00 - 00:19:49:16 Speaker 1 It's an external focus of that money. So whether it's providing electrical grid on an island in the Maldives or, you know, things, infrastructure, nation, you know, medical equipment, in, you know, in Thailand, in, in a village, I don't know, initiatives. Right. 00:19:49:18 - 00:20:20:23 Speaker 2 So the initiatives that that give back to the local community. So it's it's an interesting kind of conjunction with hospitality, as you described it earlier. Right. Being hospitable because I think a lot of tourism, and obviously luxury hotels have historically taken from their communities that they're in, especially in these kind of remote destination places. And that's a that's a nice initiative to ensure that you are also being hospitable and showing hospitality to the local community. 00:20:21:02 - 00:20:24:12 Speaker 2 Who is supporting you in some ways. 00:20:24:14 - 00:20:45:21 Speaker 1 Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, we we see it that way and frankly, it's just not enough. You know, when people say, oh, we're hiring local community. Well, of course you're hiring local community. You know, why wouldn't you? You know, that's kind of like a given. Yeah. Should be. In somebody’s town and and it should be. 00:20:45:21 - 00:21:13:13 Speaker 1 Now there are certain places in the world, you know, in the Middle East and, it's one of them where you don't have enough people to do that. So you are importing, you are importing labor. But the goal is very much to train and ought to be as part of sustainability. If you like to recruit and train and develop people to absolutely the best of their ability. 00:21:13:13 - 00:21:38:03 Speaker 1 And, you know, our goal is always we may open a hotel with 10 or 20 expats, depending where it is, but the goal from pre-opening onwards is how do we reduce the number of expatriates and replace them with with with locals? You know, that's that's what everyone should be doing just as a matter of course. Right. 00:21:38:07 - 00:22:08:10 Speaker 2 Well, it's I would think so. It's interesting, I think, about the changes that we're seeing in every industry, but certainly technology and AI starting to come for some of that hyper personalization in hospitality, in retail, in food and beverage and kind of the the ecosystem, if you will, of hospitality. And yet in the U.S., for instance, which is the data I came across, almost 10% of the American working population is employed in hospitality sector jobs. 00:22:08:12 - 00:22:30:02 Speaker 2 As technology comes and you're talking about training up local people, for instance, how do we protect the the, the hospitality workforce and upskill them for what's coming or repurpose in the same way that you're trying to give back to the local communities in destination areas environmentally, for instance? 00:22:30:04 - 00:23:08:11 Speaker 1 well, I mean, we think AI is extremely important, unlike everyone else is kind of diving into it and learning every day, you know, about what works and what doesn't work. But we also believe that there are certain things that absolutely relate to our industry that AI can't replicate. You know, they can't replicate the taste of, you know, a wine or a cocktail or a great dinner. 00:23:08:13 - 00:23:40:15 Speaker 1 They can't replicate that same connection that we were talking about at the beginning of this, of this conversation, that emotional hospitality. You know, they can do a pretty good job at creating a lot of things. but the essence of our industry, and to me, it doesn't matter whether it's, you know, high end or in the middle of the market or or wherever it is about people. 00:23:40:15 - 00:24:12:02 Speaker 1 And it's that special. You know, we're human beings at the end of the day, right? We are. And we want to feel those types of emotions and, you know, a computer or a robot can't do that. It just can't. It can do a lot of things. Right? Yeah. We're not we're not saying it's it doesn't have a place, but it can never take over what we do every single day. 00:24:12:04 - 00:24:51:23 Speaker 2 I love that. I think, you know, you and I met at a conference that’s talking about removing forced labor from the built environment, supply chains, whether that's, you know, materiality which of course is major in local sourcing and human impact, etc.. and we had a conversation briefly about kind of the convergence that's happening in hospitality, where all things are kind of coming together, whether that's wellness and food, and hotels and residential, and for all the demographics and psychographics across, talk to me a little bit, Neil, about what you're seeing. 00:24:51:23 - 00:25:01:02 Speaker 2 And also as you step into this next chapter, exciting chapter where you're going, how those things might or might not play together. 00:25:01:04 - 00:25:18:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. Before I do that, I would just tell you that, I'm, I'm speaking again next week in New York. I haven't done anything since we met. And and it's relevant to your question firstly. Sharon Price is also talking. 00:25:19:00 - 00:25:20:22 Speaker 2 Fantastic. The founder of Grace Farms where we met. 00:25:21:18 - 00:25:57:14 Speaker 1 Right. But, you know, we're talking about, it's a day that's been put on by the Global Wellness Institute. and, the conversation is about wellness real estate. So which is the fastest growing segment, if you like, within the wellness economy. Maybe not quite the biggest yet or getting there, but, for, from a year over year percentage growth, it's like 20, 25% a year that you're seeing that. 00:25:57:16 - 00:26:48:18 Speaker 1 And wellness real estate to me is one piece of that convergence. You know, where, You know, wellness and the built environment, the sustainability aspect of development kind of converge. And, and and you have these, these developments or residential developments that are created around those platforms and homes that are designed with, with wellness in mind and, and materials used and where they're coming from and different, you know, off gassing and paints and air systems and lighting systems and all of that, you know, have a place need to be better. 00:26:48:20 - 00:27:23:22 Speaker 1 thought through, so that people can lead healthy lives. So you have that whole residential piece of that, then you've got hotels and hotels do what they do. And hotels are now doing a lot of branded residential. Absolutely. You know, and we're kind of a leader in that. So you have the two components where, you know, you can get hotel services and to your home, should you choose to rent your home, the hotel can do that. 00:27:23:22 - 00:27:40:16 Speaker 1 The hotel can look after the maintenance of your home. So that's all come together, right? You've also seen a huge growth in clubs, particularly since Covid. 00:27:40:18 - 00:27:42:19 Speaker 2 We're thinking like social clubs, kind of. 00:27:42:19 - 00:28:04:15 Speaker 1 Social club, you know, and some of them are themed, some of them are not. And, you know, some of them are just just social. We, for example, Six Senses are launching our first club and the opening of our London hotel at the end of the year. It's called Six Senses Place. So because with six senses that build. Yes, it's a social club. 00:28:04:15 - 00:28:27:03 Speaker 1 It's food, it's drink, it's content, it's lectures, it's all of that stuff. But it's also build on that platform of wellness. So there will be, you know, Doctors and the thing right now everyone's is trending is longevity. Right. So we do a lot of a lot of that. We used to call it anti-aging. We don't do that anymore. 00:28:27:03 - 00:28:54:21 Speaker 1 We call it longevity. Right. So but if you take a club element and you take a residential piece and you take the hotel, you know those three pieces alone because the club is all about local community. Yeah, you know, it. It's not the hotel guests that are buying memberships. The person that buys a home in your development, we actually throw a membership in for a couple of years now. 00:28:54:21 - 00:29:37:04 Speaker 1 Kind of bring them in. You know, if they like it, then one day year three they'll pay for it. Right. But but how those of humanity come together with different intentions and different motivations. And yet it's all people and collectively that community is then formed. Yeah. So, you know, the tribe is driven a bit by the nature of any particular brand that, you know, Mandarin would do it differently to four seasons, it would differently to six senses. 00:29:37:04 - 00:30:03:17 Speaker 1 But it doesn't matter. It's about creating those communities that enhance your life and allow you to lead a more, well life that has diversity. And, you know, just a texture to it that is different if they didn't connect. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. 00:30:03:17 - 00:30:24:13 Speaker 2 Yeah it does. Well, it's also I mean it's you're coming back to like kind of the fiber of any community. I mean whether that's like urban environment where you have lots of choice. You know, I as a New York City person, as I know you are also part time. You know, the you have abundance of opportunity and you might choose a neighborhood or you might choose a type of restaurant or a type of an experience or cultural content. 00:30:24:18 - 00:30:37:19 Speaker 2 And to have it all in one place where you feel like minded, people through a brand or a place is of course, really important. Is that where is that an indication of where you're going next, Neil? 00:30:37:21 - 00:31:29:06 Speaker 1 I want that's where I want to go. I mean, certainly whatever I do has to involve, sustainability and wellness, right? It does. That's kind of what drives a lot of my own personal motivation, you know? good or bad, my, my career has been around high end so I am going to be working, with, a small beautiful little brand that was created in, in Singapore called Capella, and I'm going to be, you know, helping them with strategy and, evaluation and, you know, content a little bit. 00:31:29:08 - 00:31:43:17 Speaker 1 so that will start in July. I mentioned what I was doing with Potato Head, so that will go on the same way. So I'm not exclusive. Right. But so there's a few things. 00:31:43:19 - 00:31:47:16 Speaker 2 very much in the future of hospitality space it sounds like, Neil. 00:31:47:16 - 00:32:08:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. And also a bit of, a bit of, in the world of private equity, which I was in with, with Starwood Capital on the transactional side, you know, it's interesting you're just on the pure business piece. There is a lot of capital out there. The challenge is that there aren't a lot of things to spend it on. 00:32:08:03 - 00:32:45:17 Speaker 1 So it's about, you know, helping some friends of mine in London who who have a really kind of conscious kind of private equity firm, you know, do some transactional stuff as well. But I kind of decided that I wanted to do a few different things rather than just be attached to one brand. So I've, I formed a company, which you'll hear more about called Wild Origins. 00:32:45:17 - 00:32:46:15 Speaker 2 Cool. 00:32:46:17 - 00:33:10:19 Speaker 1 and, which hopefully depicts kind of the variety of, of some of the things that I've done in my career and that I'm hopeful I'll be able to touch going forward, you know, and just to get a change, I mean, it's been nearly 14 years, as I say it, with six senses, and I love it. I love the brand, but you got to do a few things in your life, right? 00:33:10:19 - 00:33:30:24 Speaker 2 I would agree with that. And you've done you've already done more than a few. And there's another chapter as we wrap up. I think one thing that we haven't touched upon that I'm curious about, before I ask the final question, obviously, future of X, y, Z is presented by I design, where I am also, the US managing director and global head of sustainability. 00:33:31:02 - 00:33:43:04 Speaker 2 So the intersection of design and sustainability alongside hospitality matters. What is the role of design in hospitality today? 00:33:43:06 - 00:34:07:17 Speaker 1 like I think from, you know, much of what you just said, but it it's an emotional thing, right. Design is emotional. You walk in to a space, you know, people who are not in that industry don't know why they feel good or don't feel good or dopey, or they they just know that when they've been there, they either liked it or they didn't like it without particularly knowing why. 00:34:07:17 - 00:34:41:20 Speaker 1 So the design has everything to do with that, everything to do with that, add a degree of, you know, feng shui and, and, sacred geometry, vastu or whatever you want to call it, to the mix. And that will add another layer of, in my view, at any rate. And not everyone will agree with that. how how the geometry of design as opposed to the esthetic of design. 00:34:41:20 - 00:35:11:06 Speaker 1 Right. Which I think plays a part and as I say, and what makes people feel good. So it is it is critical, but it doesn't have to shout at you, you know, it doesn't have to be love that over the top. You know, when we did one hotels, you know, with, with Barrie we had a slogan or call it what you will and we talked about the luxury of it. 00:35:11:06 - 00:35:49:24 Speaker 1 Now, you know, and, that's kind of the way I feel about it that I, you know, I'm not a big fan of over over the top design. It needs to be comforting and comfortable and exciting and a little quirky. and I think perhaps less traditional than maybe it was five, ten, 15, 20 years ago. People enjoy contemporary, enjoy cleaner lines. 00:35:49:24 - 00:36:04:02 Speaker 1 And, but I mean, it's absolutely essential to the ultimate goal of, creating those experiences for people that they will they will always remember. 00:36:04:04 - 00:36:21:21 Speaker 2 Okay, Neil, final question. you have all this history behind you and a whole bunch more to write. The future of hospitality and your greatest hope 25 years from now, in 2050, what is your greatest hope for the future of hospitality? 00:36:21:22 - 00:36:55:15 Speaker 1 That people will come together. And I think I've talked a bit about it during our chat, that people will come together in a different kind of with a different kind of mindset, and they will come together as families, as extended families, as as mixed communities. And, you know, they will participate. They will. I think you will see a huge increase in, in, you know, in rituals and festivals. 00:36:55:17 - 00:37:22:02 Speaker 1 you know, I mean, we just my daughter who runs a festival called Alma that we started in Ibiza, she just finished today with, in, in Comano in Switzerland, doing the first one in the, in the mountains. And we had amazing wellness practitioners and speakers in there and, and people seem to want more of this because they want to come together. 00:37:22:02 - 00:37:44:09 Speaker 1 Right. They want to come together and and share and learn. And going back to what I said right at the beginning and have a takeaway that is that is different to, to what, you know, most hotels and, have done in the past, and they don't have to be super expensive. Yeah. No, you can do those kinds of things. 00:37:44:09 - 00:38:03:12 Speaker 1 So keep let's keep going on this democratization and personalization that you brought up, which is also critical at certain levels because people are people. Not everyone likes the same thing. Right? So I don't know if that answers it at all. But that's my hope. 00:38:03:14 - 00:38:13:24 Speaker 2 I like it. Democratization and the personal experience. It gives you a take away. I mean, if if we're not traveling or or experiencing things for other reasons, that's a good one. 00:38:14:01 - 00:38:14:24 Speaker 1 Good. 00:38:15:01 - 00:38:39:01 Speaker 2 Neil, thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ today. It was a great conversation about the future of hospitality. And for everyone watching and listening, make sure to leave a five star review so other people can find this. Neil Jacobs, currently, for a couple days more, CEO of Six Senses, part of the Intercontinental hotel Group worldwide. 00:38:39:02 - 00:38:41:03 Speaker 2 Thank you again for joining us today. 00:38:41:05 - 00:38:43:12 Speaker 1 Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure.