Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Meshel Laurie: Comedy, Cancellation, and Male Violence

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Meshel Laurie: Comedy, Cancellation, and Male Violence · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  G'day humans welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas and just such dangerous ideas
• 0:07
  what today's guest Michelle Laurie has been wrestling with all her life as a stand-up comic
• 0:12
  a radio star and television personality here in Australia she's one of our most beloved comics
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  she was born and raised in Queensland and achieved stratospheric success on Brisbane breakfast
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  radio up there and then became known nationwide as a television personality a television
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  comedian on shows like the the project she headed out of the park at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival
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  the Melbourne Comedy Festival and at the Opera House in all the way back in the year 2000
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  and has been a fixture of Australian entertainment ever since we talk about women's rights and
• 0:45
  domestic violence which is in the news at the moment and creativity and how you juggle it all and
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  why she's a Buddhist I hope you enjoy as much as I did this conversation with the one and only
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  Michelle Laurie yeah yeah good where are you how are you are you juggling children at the moment
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  yeah not at the exact moment they are at school but yes in my life I am a mother of two
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  it's exciting isn't it juggling work and kids have you just had holidays yeah yeah
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  yeah school holidays but their teenagers now so it's sort of um school holidays aren't the
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  trial that they used to be they sort of take care of themselves you know I have a pair of six
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  year old twins who need constant attention and uh so by about day 10 of the holidays last week I was
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  like yeah so next time uh maybe we're gonna organize some extracurricular things where other people
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  take you instead of daddy having to entertain you for I have 14 year old twins so I get twins
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  and also you know from the time they go to Kinder or daycare or whatever they get this idea in their
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  heads that they should have activities organized for them all day long right so they're like what's
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  next yeah you should have something set up for me to do yeah yeah yeah no I went to on one of the days
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  I was like it's going to be a great day we're going to do like a yes day it's going to be everything
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  they want right you know they were like we want to go to Luna Park which is you know I don't
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  know if it's in the amusement park a theme park in Sydney so we go there at when it first opens at
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  9.30 by like 12.15 you know they're done yeah and I've just dropped $200 yeah on the family pass
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  so now it's you know 12.15 all right let's go and get a tie feed so we're going to get lunch at a
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  tie place great whatever you want you know they want their little pad tie fabulous that takes me
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  through till one o'clock and I'm like should we go to a park okay let's go to a park you know
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  at 1.45 they're bored of the park go go go go go I was like I'm so exhausted trying to entertain
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  them for 14 hours and do they run in different directions my twins yeah yeah right they just I
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  mean I can't believe you got them to go to one place for lunch because mine is just if one of
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  them wanted to tie the other one would like no way in the world of my eating tie and right and
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  and literally at a park literally run in opposite directions and I felt like it was this lifetime
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  of just deciding who is in the most danger yes yeah I'm giving up caring Michelle I'm just like
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  if they if they bring it on themselves then so be it but like I got you know the following day
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  was I was bitching to my mum about it and saying like so exhausting she was like you trying to
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  entertain them too much it's not a parents job to entertain children kick him into the backyard
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  and tell them that they're they've just been a half a day in the backyard come home when it's
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  dark made I don't know I don't think they would tolerate it I think they were just they would
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  sit outside the back door complaining about being bored and my mum said that's because they know
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  a learner park exists yeah you guys didn't never had a learner park so you thought that the
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  backyard was fabulous so now I've ruined them forever but also you know I don't know about you
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  but when I was a kid and I said I'm bored mum would counteract that with a more boring
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  statement so I learned very quickly that she's not getting to tell me I go I'm bored and she
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  go well clean your room if you're so bored so it's not like she would ever apologize for me being
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  bored or try and fix it in any way that's good now we go oh no so sorry what can we what can we do
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  what can we do yes where she was a stone she was a war like that and like why is it on me your
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  board why is it on me I'm bored you entertain me yeah you know you're a six-year-old tell
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  I'm trying to pair it someone that's boring exactly try and listen to children all day it's boring
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  my god yeah my daughter said it was the other day well why do I always have to do things I don't
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  want to do it's like sweetie that's called life that's living yeah I do things I don't want to do
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  all the time like get you ready you ready for school and then so what do I need to know about twins
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  Michelle that it's not going to get any easier for a while mate thank you I'm only I'm not that
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  further down the track from you but I found I thought when they were little oh god I can't
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  wait for them to be able to take care of themselves a bit but then the emotional stuff starts then
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  it's like it gets to the point where they go can I talk to you for a minute and I go oh god no
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  I don't know because it's not a conversation that you can ever pretend you're listening after
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  a point you can't ever just become yeah right you've got to engage you got to put down whatever
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  you're doing yeah really it's going to be full on it's going to be about my feelings were heard
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  about this thing at school and you've got to really track through it can you say clean your room
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  if you're so upset yeah no I feel like this is where the real work begins it's like yeah now I
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  look back wistfully at a night where they both had gastro when they were three I think remember
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  those who died how did you find the early years I hated having babies I didn't like babies at all
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  their little lizard creatures who just fart and shit and burp and vomit and don't give you
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  anything back no I remember this realizing oh god you're not going anywhere yeah yeah were you
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  alone were you single I was single from when they were three right and up until they were three my
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  partner just flipped out when we had kids he he became so the poor thing is it just brought
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  parenting brings up a lot I find it brings up a lot of your own childhood stuff and so you can
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  know we were together for 11 years before we had kids and so you think you know somebody right
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  you have kids and suddenly all of your own childhood stuff comes up and he was so protective
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  of the kids that he moved heavy furniture in front of every electrical outlet so suddenly
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  let's just one example so suddenly I'm I'm walking around I've got war droves in just the
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  most awkward places around the house you know was he aware that there are small plastic plugs that
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  you can put into the electrical outlet but little children kind of well but for some reason they
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  weren't enough you know so from the time they were three I was a semi alone with them and then
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  from the time they were six probably like bully alone with them but I had to say by that stage I
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  had a beautiful Hungarian lady who had moved into our life and she has been my life partner ever
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  since so fabulous yeah so she's our entire world and so I don't like to say I'm alone with them
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  because we got our noji that's Hungarian for Nana nice yeah that is beautiful but uh but she's not
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  really she spoils them she is also part of the problem because she has a very European grandmother
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  attitude right right yeah and I get into trouble sometimes where she's like oh Michelle
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  Louis is a very sensitive you know and I'm like he's not that sensitive mate and do they love
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  her just the sunshine out of her house yes yeah right so you're the bad one yes and I'm not even
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  I listen I don't have rules or anything like that but they they like her cooking they don't like my
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  cooking my son complains my cooking is not seasoned well it might not be with your respect Michelle
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  it might not be you might need a good a good spicy Hungarian dumpling yeah it's in your arsenal
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  it's um if it's paprika he needs paprika everything he wants it in his in his eggs
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  in his wheatbeaks and breakfast yeah yeah it's not seasoned so and so tell me about the
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  breakup of your of that previous relationship if you don't mind because I'm always interested when
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  the intensity of childhood it becomes the catalyst for a breakup and whether or not
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  you like if you've gotten through those three years and he hadn't been moving furniture against
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  the wall or at least you got into the period where he no longer had to yeah then could it have
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  been salvaged like was it no we hung in you know from a distance if you know what I mean like in
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  different houses and things like that but no it didn't it just kept bringing up a lot of his
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  childhood trauma to be honest and I can't obviously go into that because not my story but
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  we definitely tried to keep some kind of relationship and all of that kind of stuff but
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  for him it really did bring up a lot of childhood trauma and I've since read a lot about it and
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  if ever I feel like I'm talking to somebody who might understand I really ask a lot of questions
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  and I do get a lot of anecdotal kind of evidence about that I think it can potentially
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  mess people up a little bit or it can make them face face up to things they've worked really hard
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  not to think about in their lives until they have kids of their own they suddenly look at their
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  own children and it just can bring up a lot of hurt from their own childhood that they haven't
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  dealt with and that's not fade away though once the kids reach primary school age
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  well then you know sometimes the damage is done in your new family you know sometimes you've
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  done a little bit too much damage and as the other parent it's your job to not not let that happen
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  to your kids it's my it's my job then to protect our kids I have several friends in the same
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  situation whose whose marriage is all long-term relationships fell apart in the early years of
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  having kids and I recognize as dodged a bullet because my husband was in the wrong country and he
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  didn't have anywhere to go like we had to stick together in the first two or three years because
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  he's American then like my mum used to say that about poverty she used to say poverty kept them
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  together yeah I think we're lucky that we couldn't afford to break up yeah it's interesting isn't
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  and but then it is I mean I've noticed that once the kids get older and they stop being little
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  lizards who are squirting liquids from every every orifice and they and they can start talking to you
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  then maybe things stabilize and it's often often wonder about the those intense pressure cooker
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  periods of life where whether it's you know changing a job or moving to a new country or you know
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  yeah life is always changing isn't it that's the beauty of life I think and so whenever life is
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  really hard I certainly tell myself listen the great news is it's always changing it's like
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  to be like this for long have you had a hard life I think in so many ways I've had an incredibly
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  lucky life I've had hard periods I've had hard things happen but then I think it's totally
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  outweighed by the luckiness and I will always say look I'm Buddhist and I when I started studying
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  Buddhism which is a lot well my kids are 14 that was before that so it's probably 16 years ago now
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  I used to go to this Buddhist school in Brisbane and I had such an amazing teacher called Eddie
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  and in the like and he's not a very good Buddhist name he's a bloke called Eddie the Buddhist
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  yeah it's a brilliant guy and in one of the various sort of earliest Buddhists for beginners classes
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  he there was a class about how we're lucky to be born human and it was this really intense I
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  think it was a course I think it was weeks of this this conversation about how lucky we are to be
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  born human and once you really internalize that it's very powerful it's very very powerful to really
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  walk around thinking oh I'm so oh I never thought of it this way before I'm so lucky just
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  swive virtual with the fact that I'm human it's hard to feel unlucky about anything ever again after
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  that I like that I also like you know Richard Dawkins talks about how the number of sperm that could
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  have yeah you know internalized the egg and the different combinations of people who could have
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  been created the fact that you were that you came into your conceived at all is hundreds of
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  millions to one and then that you were born a human all the more so and then you're a human and
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  you're born in Australia I was going to say born in Australia the dumb luck of it you know that
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  other thing I'm sure you've heard where they say if aliens came down to worth and said just show
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  us an average human just just can we just meet an average human family please it would not be mine
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  it would not be yours like we are living an incredibly you know not every human existence
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  is so lucky is that the appeal of Buddhism to you the gratitude the the realness of it if that
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  makes sense it makes you constantly face up to reality in terms of hang on my behavior is I'm
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  being really ego centric I'm being really why am I angry well because I'm being an absolute
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  wanker because I'm being an absolute ego maniac because my feelings are hurt because I think someone's
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  I'm actually resentful I'm angry because I'm actually resenting the way someone's treated
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  a bit because I think I deserve better and that's embarrassing so these sound like I mean a lot
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  of people especially in podcasts to stand are crazy about like the stoics and you know everyone's
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  reading their markers or relias and stuff and getting an idea about the the need to be present
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  in the moment and to follow your Eckhart tolle and you know appreciate the power of now and not
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  spend your life regretting the past and fearing the future and so they're finding secular ways of
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  arriving at those conclusions is the religious component of Buddhism important to you
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  yeah but really it is it that is it so I mean that's Buddhism is a philosophy
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  Buddhism is a very academic religion you know when monks are learning to be monks they go
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  to university they'd be to to work your way up to become a more and more important monk you have
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  to do exams you have to you go to the monasteries and you have to do exams and the way that they
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  do their exams is debate and so their their idea is that there's nothing's ever right or wrong
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  you're constantly trying to push Buddhism forward and challenge the ideas and they're always
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  looking for people who are pushing the the philosophy forward into new and interesting areas and
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  incorporating contemporary world contemporary but I guess what I mean is do why do you need to believe
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  in the divinity of the Buddha in order to get the psychological payoff well but it's not divine
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  but it's not a god that's the difference we don't have a god in Buddhism he was a guy who
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  who reached you know this level of understanding by meditating and it's all about that it's all
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  about everybody can do it essentially if you kind of sit still long enough that's the idea
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  yes said then done how often do you meditate I try to meditate every day but also the idea is
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  that meditating for one minute is good you know we have this idea that oh well you should meditate
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  for an hour otherwise it's not worth it or you know but his holiness says look meditate for a minute
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  every minute you do it is it's worth it it's worth it it's a difference what kind of meditation
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  just sitting meditation when I worked in breakfast radio I used to do it in my car before I went
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  upstairs because it was such a beautiful quiet place in a quiet time to be in your car at 445
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  in the morning in a car park in a radio station it was nice and quiet and people used to think I was
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  having a nap when they were like yeah so now I do it after the kids have gone to school because
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  that's a beautiful quiet time and they've walked out of the all the hubbub of trying to get them ready
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  because they were flatly refused to get their uniforms ready the night before so there's always
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  this massive drama in the mornings and then when they finally close that door to run to the bus
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  silence is everything beautiful and you're not tempted to pick up your phone and see what people
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  are talking to each other about on Instagram no no I'm really off socials it's funny I'm almost
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  phobic about social media I sort of I did obviously I was all over it but now I'm like no I don't
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  want to look at it that's a very wise an instinctive reaction to it doesn't come from wisdom it comes
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  from fear so it's probably something fear of what I don't know it's I think of of all those times
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  when it's been me when people have been screaming at me so now I'm just like yeah don't join
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  the club it's interesting I mean yeah yeah friend Kelly once said that when she was doing
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  our end breakfast she would take time out to meditate before going on the year which I always
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  thought was amazing because when I did breakfast right here there was the idea of having 10 minutes
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  to like to set aside was a completely alien but when I've done drive I've found it really useful
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  to if not meditate at least go away to a dark quiet room and just sit for even just five minutes
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  before you go on because you got the whole exhaustion of the day that's built up and all these ideas
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  about everything you can't perform I don't think peak performance is possible unless you've taken some
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  steps to clear away some of the gunk that's all it is I think people always think oh I'm terrible
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  at meditation and I always say that's what meditation is yeah yeah I thought it's keep coming into my
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  head I don't know I'm not doing it right no no that's that's it that's what it is and I always
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  think a good way to start is eating meditation I call it I don't know if that's the thing you're
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  probably is I'm sure I didn't invent it but mindful eating let's say is a great way because if you
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  can sit somewhere quietly with no phone and no TV no radio and no pets no kids and eat something
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  and really focus on what you're eating and all the sensations that are going on in your mouth as
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  you're eating it's it's there is so much going on when you really focus on it it's it's a helpful
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  way to focus on the moment it's a lot easier than just sitting right because there's some sensory
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  input that's pleasurable anyway and you say you really notice oh my gosh I've never noticed all
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  these things before and it's sort of I think encourages you to think oh yeah okay I yeah there is
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  so much going on and so then later on when you sit still and think about your breath I think it
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  translates better to think oh yeah I get it I'm noticing all these things I've never noticed before
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  just to focus on my body in a way that I was focusing on chewing before have you had periods where
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  you're just ingesting stuff mindlessly and you're either I mean I know you went through a drug
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  phase as well was that like yeah wow it was like all the different depending on what drug I was
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  taking that's the point you know you're trying to you're trying to create a feeling aren't you
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  with drugs because you don't like the actual feelings I think there's this incredibly profound
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  moment in the Barbie movie when at the towards the end there where Barbie is talking to the old
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  lady who invented her which is pretty profound what you think about it and the old lady says to
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  her being a human is uncomfortable and we're always trying to find ways to make it more comfortable
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  and that's sort of that's very Buddhist sentiment actually and that's what we're doing a lot of
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  the time with drugs alcohol with food with sex we're just trying to make ourselves more comfortable
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  because being human can be really uncomfortable and it's hard to just just accept the discomfort I
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  think just to say to yourself I feel so uncomfortable right now just it will it will shift it will change
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  but it's really hard and it's easier to say on your way home from work oh I'm going to get a bottle
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  of wine without just actually just you know giving into the discomfort so that's what drugs are
• 20:47
  for just thinking I want energy I'm going to take something do you still drink Michelle
• 20:55
  no I've really I drank some wine last night because I was feeling uncomfortable that would be yes
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  yeah and I hadn't before that drunk for about a month because I've yeah obviously I'm not going to
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  say I've stopped drinking because I'm still drinking but I've been only drinking socially because I
• 21:11
  was since covid just drinking at home by myself and so a month ago I went out with the mums from
• 21:17
  school and had some drinks and then I hadn't had a drunk but yesterday I had a really stressful day
• 21:21
  sometimes the strung and true crime recording is really stressful you know yesterday afternoon I
• 21:28
  had that feeling that's what reminded me of that feeling of I'm going to get a bottle of wine I had
• 21:34
  that yesterday and yeah interesting the morning I mean it is interesting that the drug that is the
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  most acceptable and the most widely used is the one that is the the most mediocre I would say just
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  in terms of like it's the one that depresses it's a depressant it makes your foggy it makes your
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  clammy it makes your slow I haven't had a drink I did the same covid thing that you did and just
• 21:58
  you know resorted to booze and ice cream and Netflix in the first year of covid and so then in
• 22:03
  October of 2020 I didn't I stopped drinking I haven't had a drink since and the the the
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  starkness of the difference like I'm not a big preachy like everyone should stop drinking kind of
• 22:15
  guy but the starkness of the difference between the quality of the high of being drunk and the quality
• 22:20
  of high of lesser drugs so obvious like you know MDMA is going to give you an almost invariably
• 22:28
  positive experience emotionally and empathically I mean I you know I sometimes get into trouble for
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  talking like this especially on the ABC where I remember once I was on with Wendy Harmer on breakfast
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  on ABC Sydney and we were interviewing someone about about drugs there was some moral panic about
• 22:44
  drugs at festivals and stuff and I was like until we start talking to kids in a way that they
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  understand so it's not just like all drugs are bad but drugs are really fun like they're fun
• 22:55
  some of yeah totally you know young people will say that you know their experience on MDMA
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  or psilocybin they often rank as one of the most positive and profound experiences of their entire
• 23:07
  lives like until we acknowledge that and then go and also here's what it can do here's how you
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  need to deal with it and so on and so forth we're not going to be able to get fair income about
• 23:16
  about treating drug addiction or drug over years but the fact that those things are illegal and this
• 23:23
  sloppy mediocre violence inducing poison and cancer inducing and you know like choose better
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  vices people totally and it's interesting you say because I've started looking into and I haven't
• 23:38
  used them or all connected with anybody but I started researching like microdosing and medical
• 23:43
  cannabis and stuff because like last night's a classic example I'm having a few glasses of wine
• 23:48
  here and I'm trying to keep working I was writing stuff and writing intros for podcasts and stuff
• 23:52
  and after like a glass and a half I felt like okay well I can't keep working now because I know I'm not
• 23:58
  I'm kind of making mistakes and stuff I feel sloppy I'm not having fun I feel gross this is a
• 24:05
  gross is I'm not it's not a high I feel yucky I don't feel good I don't feel happy like I wanted to
• 24:12
  get away from myself but I don't feel good there must be something better than this and so what
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  were your drugs of choice like were they because you know I think it's a cliche to say that we're all
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  we're trying to do is block out the uncomfortableness of being human and that may be true with alcohol
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  and it may be true with heroin or I don't know oxy or something like that but it's not true of
• 24:37
  psychedelics and I did use when I was younger I did use I used emphetamines I used psychedelics
• 24:47
  and I used heroin and like not all at the same time but with through phases of all of those things
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  and then I didn't use drugs or alcohol for decades until COVID
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  uh at all really I never drank no just didn't didn't wasn't interested I think I think work
• 25:09
  I was addicted to work and I would use cocaine very very rarely socially because when I went out
• 25:18
  it was often out and about but just as often I wouldn't I wouldn't it would be there and I'd go
• 25:24
  no I can't be bothered and and I'm I'm a bit of a party animal I can stay out all night happily
• 25:30
  partying you know I love to be out um so yeah I really didn't use anything until COVID
• 25:37
  well now and you know talking about kids being locked up with kids at no adult entertainment
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  was tough man I'm so glad mine were two when COVID hit and not eleven or whatever yours were
• 25:53
  yeah and was your husband was with you yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah I mean we drive each other
• 25:57
  up the absolute war we almost got a divorce but I mean you know nonetheless we clung in there
• 26:01
  and we're hung in there it's amazing to me Michelle the someone was saying to me the other day
• 26:08
  how often have you heard someone talk about the experience of the lockdowns
• 26:14
  we don't talk about it we don't talk about we talk about the it in the abstract we talk about
• 26:19
  public policy did we go too far here or you know vaccines there so that we've all been through we've
• 26:24
  all just been through this life-altering trauma and we're all we're all shutting up about it
• 26:32
  no one's talking about what it actually felt like yeah yeah and here in Melbourne you know we did
• 26:39
  it so hard in fact I think about a friend of mine who I ran into at the shop and the shops were
• 26:46
  so this shops that we run into each other at here in my neighborhood it was dark it was a shopping
• 26:51
  centre and it was literally dark because like all the shops were shut except coals so and it was
• 26:57
  winter in Melbourne I'll never forget this day it was literally dark and it was horrible it's like a cave
• 27:01
  and we had to line up to go into coals and all that was so depressing and I saw this lady and I
• 27:06
  said how are you and she said not good I'm really not good I'm really bad I'm really bad
• 27:13
  like I just got out of hospital I've been really you know and I didn't know what to say
• 27:20
  and then we kind of parted and I just I just saw her like a couple of weeks ago at this mum's
• 27:26
  dinner we were drinking and and everything and and I thought to myself I got home I have never
• 27:31
  asked her about that I think about it a lot that day and I've never asked her well hey what happened
• 27:39
  and it's yeah you're right it's like we've put it behind us and just like it's an understood
• 27:45
  thing we all know it was hideous we all know it's like we don't want to confess to the darkest
• 27:51
  moments that happened to us in that period of time we just we all know every now and then it'll
• 27:57
  pop up but we don't want to confess yeah it's an interesting thing that we all had to go through and
• 28:04
  yeah I'm sure that there are ramifications from that and like long-term effects that we're not
• 28:09
  seeing with the we don't yeah yeah we don't even think about I'm interested in the experience of
• 28:15
  getting famous as well when did you start to notice that you were being noticed well it's funny
• 28:22
  because initially I was in Brisbane and you know when you're famous in a small town it's it's
• 28:29
  different because then it was great it was awesome because Brisbane's such a great town and
• 28:35
  it was just all positive positive positive I was on the number one breakfast show we were number
• 28:40
  one by miles and how'd I get the show yeah I was filling in for Hughesy really Hughesy's probably
• 28:50
  the answer he and I've been mates for a long time and when Kate when they started their breakfast
• 28:56
  show in Melbourne Kate was at the beginning of her marriage and her family and so every time she
• 29:01
  got pregnant or some drama was happening in her life she got SARS I think it's meeting of
• 29:11
  pandemics yeah just crazy Katie I would go in for two weeks and fill in for her so I was in there
• 29:17
  a lot and he said he taught me how to do breakfast radio him and their producer Sasha taught me how
• 29:22
  to do the job and had been there a lot and because I was there a lot the bosses were hearing me a lot
• 29:28
  so then when they they was launching the new other new stations around the country I got Brisbane
• 29:34
  and because I had grown up in Queensland and yeah it was a great show and so I was a superstar
• 29:41
  in Brisbane which was super fun by face or just by voice and name yeah by both I mean we had bill
• 29:48
  boards and also I was on TV a bit flying back and forth in to Melbourne and Sydney so that made me
• 29:56
  famous there and we were always out and about in the market a lot we did a lot of events and stuff
• 30:02
  and Brisbane is just a really loyal town it's a very funny town we had callers on air all the time
• 30:09
  they were hilarious and they never ever treated me like the girl on the show I was just they treated
• 30:17
  me like I was funny they never treated me like I was an annoying annoying girl and I still love
• 30:24
  one of my favorite things was when callers would ring up and go you know boys and never ever
• 30:30
  say and Michelle or anything like that was one of my favorite I loved being treated like one of the
• 30:34
  boys it's super fun and but when I came to Melbourne and Sydney no one recognized me really so that
• 30:40
  was kind of cool as well but then when I moved into drive and which was my definitely my dream my
• 30:48
  career trajectory was going really well everything was going according to plan and started working on
• 30:53
  the project regularly that's when I became I think as famous as I'll ever be and it was not what I
• 31:03
  thought it would be put it that way in a way well then just there was a lot of negativity to it
• 31:10
  and also social media was becoming really mean at that stage like I'd been on Twitter since 2009
• 31:16
  and in 2009 Twitter was adorable it was playful wasn't it it was great full of nerds and
• 31:25
  funny people goofballs it was just a really cute place and I got an award from the Queensland
• 31:33
  Premier in 2010 for my use of Twitter who was that Peter Beatty at the time no it was I think
• 31:41
  was the next lady I can't remember her name but it was because we had the big floods remember in
• 31:46
  Brisbane just after my babies were born so I was stuck at home I couldn't go out and be in the
• 31:51
  mud army or whatever in Brisbane help people like you know um shovel all the mud out of their
• 31:56
  houses or whatever but during the actual flood event a lot of people in Brisbane joined Twitter
• 32:01
  to send information to each other so people would send me information like there's four horses
• 32:07
  stuck in a paddock in Hendra right um we need we need a horse float to rescue and the owners can't
• 32:14
  get to them because they're on the other side of the river and so then I would tweet that then
• 32:18
  somebody because I had so many followers somebody would go okay I'm nearby I'll come with a
• 32:24
  horse float and save them I'm getting who's fun so it's so beautiful and so we've just like
• 32:29
  varying dogs and cats and animals around and it was beautiful it's just gorgeous adorable yeah
• 32:36
  so I got a prize for my use of Twitter for Brisbane and then everything went south when you
• 32:40
  actually read the comments no because at that stage all the comments were still good it was I'm
• 32:45
  talking about you know six seven years later by that stage Twitter's this cesspit of hate
• 32:50
  and I'm on the project and everyone by that stage is addicted to Twitter and we're looking at
• 32:56
  a Twitter in the ad breaks to see what people are saying about what we've just said on
• 33:00
  on the project and it was just so stressful the pressure was terrible people would abuse me for
• 33:07
  we all of us for weeks about things we've said on there and it's just really bad for your mental
• 33:13
  health it's so I'm sure you know there's you know now people just say I can't be on social media
• 33:19
  you know I've given up I've given up yeah I mean I shouldn't say given up that sounds like it's
• 33:24
  a bad thing to have walked away from it but it's great it's great not to be in that I mean it's
• 33:30
  like you know someone said it is like giving your phone number to everyone in the world and then
• 33:35
  being surprised when you receive nasty text messages I still am surprised though I still think
• 33:41
  it's a shame that that we have to accept that you know that we have to say oh well what do you
• 33:47
  expect when imagine if everyone had your phone number of course they'd abuse you I think
• 33:51
  well they wouldn't but a tiny I mean it's a bit like it reminds me of guns in America like if
• 33:56
  you give everyone a gun then some tiny minority of people will go around shooting people so like
• 34:02
  you know you get what you pay for you sort of you live you lie in the bed you made like I guess
• 34:07
  you know I mean if you want to keep looking at Twitter there are going to be some assholes
• 34:11
  yeah I don't I don't know why there are one time this man was really abusing me and I had this
• 34:17
  one night I was at home and he was really trolling me and it was about nothing in particular it was
• 34:21
  one of those it was just like just started getting a lot of hate and and whatever reason I kind of
• 34:26
  pursued it and pursued him I started like answering him but not abusing him or whatever just like
• 34:31
  what is going on like who are you what what is happening and we ended up having this conversation
• 34:39
  we ended up talking on the phone and it I got out of him that he he was just this really lonely
• 34:47
  guy living in regional Victoria and he said and we were it's all started about the project
• 34:54
  but then what happened was he said to me oh look it's just that I'm a really big speaks and specs
• 35:00
  fan and I really hate the comedians it's I just feel like they wreck it like I just want to see
• 35:06
  this was a music quiz television show yeah and he liked hearing the musicians on it but they
• 35:13
  hired comedians to sit next to the musicians because it was meant to be a comedy show and he he hated
• 35:20
  that aspect of it there's a completely different show and this one night he was at home and he was
• 35:27
  lonely and he switched on the TV and he saw my face and he thought that's one of the people they
• 35:32
  have on my other show hmm I am just going to sit here and drink whiskey and send her some messages
• 35:39
  just to entertain myself and it was so sad how did you come to be talking to him on the phone
• 35:45
  because we we it started with replying to him I just was fascinated but at what point do you start
• 35:50
  exchanging phone up with us on exchange DMs right and then I said Mick what's your phone number
• 35:58
  wow and then I never ever heard from him again yeah yeah but I always still follows you
• 36:05
  well I think it was a Twitter thing so I killed my Twitter account did you get rid of it all together
• 36:09
  committed Twitter side wow how many followers did you have when you did that I can't remember I think
• 36:14
  was 70,000 or something yeah no regrets no it was incredibly liberating I sort of walked around
• 36:21
  like I had something off my back yeah afterwards it was a beautiful beautiful feeling
• 36:27
  just did not have all of those people have access to me yeah yeah so remember one night I was
• 36:33
  in the bath with a glass of wine and a book and I got a text message from Yumi Stein's
• 36:39
  is another beautiful female performer saying oh my god mate I'm so sorry
• 36:47
  what a good sign no what he's talking about she goes Twitter can you imagine
• 36:54
  I was like oh my god so that was some drama I just had no idea about some bullshit blowing up
• 37:00
  bullshit you should never have had to worry about me first place to know that would never happen
• 37:05
  again was amazing it's amazing it's interesting that you mentioned that you know part of the
• 37:10
  appeal or part of the joy of being on the Brisbane breakfast show we're using was that you were
• 37:14
  treated like one of the blocs because there's a there's a pattern in Australian broadcasting which
• 37:19
  is like aggressive male and submissive female who spends the whole time going oh Kyle you know
• 37:25
  that's ridiculous why are you saying that you're outrageous I'll stop being so naughty well I
• 37:31
  love Kyle and Jack and I you can go to any city and I yeah I'm not picking on them in particular
• 37:36
  you can go to any city in this country and there will be five different stations and it'll all be
• 37:41
  Bubsy Biffo and Sheila are in some different incarnation and I was yeah obviously never that girl
• 37:48
  and so I loved in Brisbane that they loved me for that they would egg me on and go give it to
• 37:53
  him Michelle come on get up him give it to him and they loved that because very blokey town and a
• 37:58
  very you know and we had a lot of male listeners and they loved that and it wasn't until I got back
• 38:03
  to Melbourne where I started being described in the media with that word divisive the divisive
• 38:10
  Michelle Laurie and I thought I'm not divisive I'm just not mate I just I don't hate men I don't
• 38:18
  attack men I don't do any of that stuff I'm what do you think divisive was code for what were they
• 38:24
  saying they use it for all of us they use it for every female performer in the country
• 38:30
  we're all I don't know I just they try and make it sound like we are contrarians like we
• 38:37
  trying to divide people like we're complainers like we're stomping our feet about things you know
• 38:46
  if it's really interesting code that you'll read about women I very rarely I don't remember
• 38:53
  ever reading it about a man interesting the divisive talk show host the divisive comedian the
• 39:01
  divisive broadcast well you find you do hear it about you know P. S. Morgan or someone like that
• 39:06
  today do they call him divisive I mean they call him worse than that but someone's probably
• 39:12
  called him divisive but I know you mean that there's a you know I in when I was you know in journalism
• 39:17
  school I remember someone saying that you should never use words like divisive or controversial
• 39:22
  because they're just lazy ways of avoiding what you're actually saying like if you want to point
• 39:26
  to a controversy or an instance of division then just talk about the actual thing and give an
• 39:31
  example of what you're talking about or say that you know Michelle Uppsets X Y Z population or
• 39:37
  something like that or people responded negatively to this particular thing yeah I just say that
• 39:42
  it's a controversial law or something like that like explain what the law is and who I think it
• 39:47
  is lazy and I think at the moment we're going through this really boring phase where you know there's
• 39:55
  a lot of labels and it's really simplistic and it's really reductive where you know you kind
• 40:02
  of expected to fit into categories really neatly and I don't do that and I refuse to do that you know
• 40:08
  so because life isn't simple things aren't simple it's complex and every there's so many complex
• 40:16
  issues that we want to talk about and it's because we as a community have pushed so hard to get
• 40:26
  to this place I think with LGBTQ issues with racial issues with issues around you know the legal
• 40:35
  system and all these issues around women's safety and identity these are all very very complex
• 40:45
  issues so to say that someone's divisive or controversial because you can't sum up
• 40:52
  their beliefs in a sentence is just as a say reductive what do you make of the current conversation
• 40:58
  around domestic violence and this kind of moment we find ourselves in someone was asking me recently
• 41:03
  on a talk back episode of this show how I feel about the exhortation that men need to do better
• 41:09
  like that the solution to this is that men as a group need to do better and so we were wrestling
• 41:14
  with the question of how do you bring along the largest number of men in the mission to to try
• 41:20
  to clamp down on domestic violence and violence from males without being quote unquote divisive
• 41:28
  this is a classic example I think that men are under pressure I think our men are struggling
• 41:35
  and that I think are mentoring crisis and I think we need to support men I don't think we can talk
• 41:40
  about the violence figures which incidentally are now I just read them this morning and I wish I
• 41:46
  could remember them exactly but we know that men are also victims of violence so we know that
• 41:53
  men are perpetrating violence in Australia in high numbers we know that women are victims of
• 41:58
  the violence but the highest numbers of victims of the violence are other men but I don't think we
• 42:04
  can look at the violence the statistics of violence without also looking at the statistics of suicide
• 42:11
  and six men a day take their own lives in Australia six men every single day in Australia take their
• 42:18
  own lives that's a mental health crisis and I think the violence levels are also a mental health
• 42:23
  crisis so I'm not in any way coddling men obviously but I don't think that meeting violence with
• 42:35
  violence or with harshness has ever worked I think we know that right we know that meeting
• 42:48
  violence meeting like where is it coming from what's the common denominator with a bloke who
• 42:56
  kills his wife puts her in a wheelie been by the highway and takes off back to India what's he got
• 43:00
  in common with a young man who kills his mum in the suburbs of Melbourne what's he got in common
• 43:06
  with a bloke in Ballarat who kills a lady he doesn't know while she's having a jog sorry about
• 43:13
  my dog that's a little color and entertainment and flair it adds a lot of domesticity you know
• 43:22
  because these are people a woman a day was killed a woman a week was killed in Australia we're now
• 43:27
  down to a woman every four days and I always think you know does next week's woman know she's in
• 43:32
  danger sometimes they do sometimes they do know they're in danger and yeah sometimes and that is
• 43:37
  the tragedy of domestic violence specifically right and that and the overwhelming majority of
• 43:41
  victims of domestic violence are women but as you say if you're talking about the problem of male
• 43:47
  violence men are violent especially young men are violent and part of like the triumph of civilization
• 43:55
  is to try to constrain those motivations that you see come out in all boys boarding schools
• 44:02
  and in civil wars and in other environments where young men don't have their violence contained
• 44:10
  and yeah more than twice as many men are killed by men than women so but they're not in domestic
• 44:17
  violence situation so it's not by someone necessarily who they trust or who has power over them
• 44:21
  it could be an act of but if we're talking about preventing it you know many of these acts
• 44:28
  of domestic violence are performed by people men who've not committed acts of domestic violence
• 44:32
  before so if we're talking about preventing future acts of violence this is what I'm saying we
• 44:39
  need to look at the red flags you know there are many cases of men who murder their partners or
• 44:47
  former partners who've never physically assaulted them before we've never hit them before
• 44:54
  is that true I mean obviously it's true in some cases but is that actually I mean is that
• 45:00
  a significant proportion of people it's absolutely true it's absolutely true this is why we've
• 45:05
  started looking so seriously at coercive control and of all the red flags like you know strangulation
• 45:12
  for example was not considered to be you know an attack an act of violence but obviously it is
• 45:19
  I mean if you say obviously but you'd be shocked at the number of women who've never
• 45:24
  considered that to be an act of violence in their relationship so you'd be amazing a number of
• 45:31
  women who say that they realized they were victims of domestic violence after some time you didn't
• 45:39
  realize that what was going on in their home was domestic violence the pushing the shoving
• 45:43
  the elbowing the string the having the hand around the neck during an argument
• 45:49
  so this is what I'm saying if you want to prevent it's not enough to sort of look at people who
• 45:56
  are already having the cops called on them because of the level of violence in their homes
• 46:00
  that's one aspect of prevention but the our men are in crisis and we need to look at why
• 46:11
  why how did we get here with Australian men what's happening in our culture why
• 46:17
  yeah why what's your hunch I think that I think that the identity of Australian men has changed a lot
• 46:26
  in a really short period of time I think that what is expected of men what we're asking of them
• 46:33
  what we're offering them has changed I think there's a lot of fear certainly recently there's a lot
• 46:38
  of financial fear there's a lot of what's going to happen to me what is my future can I create a
• 46:48
  future can I yeah how am I going to build a future that looks in any way like my childhood can I
• 46:57
  create any kind of childhood for for my children I think there's a lot of fear a lot of confusion
• 47:04
  about where they're heading on my ABC show I used to interview Hunter Johnson who has an outfit called
• 47:10
  the man cave where he works with the mental health of adolescent boys and creates bonds between
• 47:15
  boys and their fathers and he often cops a lot of flak from a certain cohort of the of the
• 47:21
  women's rights or feminist groups for you know for why you focusing on men and trying to empower
• 47:26
  toxic masculinity instead of focusing on the real you know issue which is that women are being
• 47:30
  murdered and beaten and and his attitude is until you find constructive visions of masculinity for
• 47:38
  young men nothing else is going to work and a lot of the people a lot of kids he works with
• 47:44
  kids who would otherwise go down and and rotate you know rabbit hole or something because they don't
• 47:49
  know who they're supposed to be they know they know they know what they're not they know what is
• 47:54
  bad about them which is that they have this toxic masculinity which and that you know they're sort
• 48:00
  of paralyzed by confusion around consent in some ways and you know how they are supposed to express
• 48:06
  their the urges that they're feeling and so they box it all up and some cohort of them will
• 48:13
  go the and rotate route and be like fuck it if you know I'm sick of being told that there's
• 48:18
  something broken about me if I'm if I'm toxic let's embrace the toxicity yeah um so we need more
• 48:23
  hunter johnson's in the world to do I don't know why wouldn't you if someone's offering to empower
• 48:28
  you this is why people join gangs join um I mean look you know joining groups has always been
• 48:38
  inviting for people who feel alienated whether it's a 40 club whether it's uh you know
• 48:46
  any uh occult any kind of group that offers you comfort that offers you brotherhood sister
• 48:53
  hoard you know that makes you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself that's
• 48:58
  welcoming uh makes you feel strong and correct like a you know you're a good person
• 49:07
  is obviously attractive and if somebody like Andrew Tate is going to tell you that
• 49:14
  you're okay and that everyone else is wrong and that it's all bullshit because it feels it feels
• 49:19
  a bit bullshitty at the moment everything feels a bit crazy right it's hard to make sense it's hard
• 49:25
  for me to make sense but I'm a 50 year old person and it's really hard for me to make sense of
• 49:30
  things a lot of the time like everything feels a bit a bit too far a bit upside down a bit crazy it's
• 49:37
  hard to everyone's telling you you're wrong all the time no matter how much I try to say the right
• 49:43
  thing do the right things say it properly use the right language everyone just tells me I'm wrong
• 49:48
  all the time I'm wrong I'm bad I'm a Karen but at least I have built up enough self-esteem
• 49:56
  to be able to walk through that and go okay well I'm just still my best over here guys I'll leave
• 50:02
  you do it um but I can't imagine what it's like to be a 14 year old and to feel like um and
• 50:11
  I don't know if someone's going to tell me just don't worry about it's all bullshit and they're all
• 50:16
  just they're all wankers and let's just ignore it all and go backwards let's go backwards to when
• 50:24
  we as men were on top and we were just the bosses because we're stronger and we can hit harder
• 50:31
  let's go back to that I might be tempted speaking of bullshit that you're expected to not
• 50:39
  along and swallow that you mentioned the Barbie movie earlier and I did an episode of this podcast
• 50:45
  which was just a monologue reflecting on that classic speech by America Farahra in Barbie where she
• 50:51
  you know it was the first scene but they're going to go with wrote which was about how how hard it is
• 50:56
  to be a woman and it's a beautiful speech and it resonates and if if 14 year old girls you know
• 51:04
  get some sense of vindication out of it then great it's also selective and
• 51:14
  one-sided in the sense that I could easily write a speech in fact I did riff one ad libbed
• 51:20
  and did it on on my show which people can go back and listen to about how hard it is to be
• 51:26
  a guy how many expectations there are around you know you're supposed to be courteous but not
• 51:30
  condescending you're supposed to be strong but you're not supposed to be aloof you're supposed
• 51:35
  to be vulnerable but you're not supposed to be a worse like all of there if you think it's
• 51:39
  complicated to be a woman yeah again coming back to the human condition being uncomfortable
• 51:44
  it is uncomfortable being a male as well and especially uncomfortable being an adolescent male
• 51:49
  at the moment and I just felt like it's quite hard to say that without sounding like your Andrew
• 51:56
  Bolt railing against feminists or something but I cried in that movie when I saw that speech but
• 52:04
  that speech is for me I am also a single working mom of a similar age it's for me but I agree with
• 52:14
  you you know and yeah good on you for writing a speech that's for men like you and and also
• 52:22
  that speech didn't resonate with my 14 year old daughter oh really no she's not
• 52:28
  she didn't give she's about that yeah she was like like she kind of she tries because she
• 52:33
  tries to empathise with me um but a lot of that's performative because she's like yes mom yes
• 52:40
  yes yes yes yes but also have you watched my sports shoes you know are we going to learn a park
• 52:48
  come on she's got her own problems you know and also I try and empathise with what it's
• 52:53
  like to be a 14 year old girl now so then Michelle is it constructive for us to obsess as much as
• 52:59
  we do it I want to say obsess then maybe that's pejorative to elevate as much as we do a narrative
• 53:04
  of victimhood and discrimination and sexism I do wonder sometimes you know about my six year old
• 53:11
  daughter whether she's just growing up in a world in which actually the talking points about
• 53:16
  what it's like to be a woman are out of date with what it is actually like to be a young woman
• 53:21
  in the 2020s I don't want her to grow up feeling like she lives in an iridimably sexist
• 53:27
  society because I honestly think that at this point she's pretty much capable of doing anything
• 53:33
  but maybe maybe that's just what naive white males always think I think I think and again we're
• 53:42
  really lucky we're coming at this from an Australian perspective where we have
• 53:47
  where we have so much freedom and there are so many places in the world where people don't so I'm
• 53:54
  always conscious of that that's my big thing but there is still a lot of sexism but I what I don't
• 54:01
  get is is the competition the competitiveness around it is saying well why why do I need to
• 54:09
  exclude men's story why do I have to diminish men's story why do I have to say well no
• 54:17
  we we have to only focus on women's stories we can't we can't listen to men's stories if we're going
• 54:25
  to fix or if we're going to try and work on sexism in Australia if we're going to why can't we
• 54:32
  also be conscious of the crisis that's happening for men in Australia why can't we also
• 54:43
  you know talk about what it's like to be an elderly man in Australia at the moment
• 54:50
  well while trying to look at what it's like to be a 14 year old boy in Australia what it's
• 54:55
  like to be a six year old girl in Australia why well also thinking about what it's like to be a gay
• 55:03
  you know 36 year old woman in Australia or a trans person why do I have to compartmentalise
• 55:10
  and be so like that everything's at the expense of somebody else you know what I mean well
• 55:18
  absolutely but isn't it because so many of our the social justice issues that inspire us at this
• 55:26
  moment are predicated on us being a member of a group that is besieged and victimised like we
• 55:33
  find meaning in that you know I'm married to a guy and I'm expected to regard that as being
• 55:40
  as placing me in a community quote unquote that is disenfranchised and oppressed now as you say
• 55:48
  I have the good fortune of being white middle class in Australia and I don't feel that it's actually
• 55:52
  any impediment that I'm gay I don't notice any impediment whatsoever from that that's a little
• 56:01
  bit taboo to say because it seems like I'm undermining the the the raison d'etre for gay activists
• 56:08
  to continue to exist and similarly I suspect that a lot of the meaning that the women who are
• 56:15
  running not not just women I mean also well meaning virtue signaling men who are in the space
• 56:21
  of we need to do some do more about violence against women and about women's equality they're
• 56:27
  driving meaning from frameworks that may have some validity and also may not I mean you keep
• 56:33
  hearing about women earning 70 cents on the dollar as well no matter how many times that gets debunked
• 56:38
  that once you adjust for occupation and once you adjust for a taking time off for child care
• 56:43
  or something like that it's like 92 cents and not 70 like it sounds like a nitpicky thing but
• 56:47
  it just sticks in my craw that there are you know there's an unprecedented wave of you know
• 56:55
  violence and random stabbings against women well hang on a second like we're at roughly a 30-year
• 57:00
  low of murders of women like 1989 to 90 was apparently the last financial year before 21 to 22
• 57:10
  that was that low that doesn't mean it's not a terrible thing every death is a tragedy and we
• 57:15
  have to do something about it but I want the largest number of people to be involved in the
• 57:19
  solution and therefore you want to talk in ways that those people feel like they're included in
• 57:25
  ways that are best on fact yeah I mean again inclusivity is something that's talked about and what I
• 57:32
  find is that the people who talk about it the most love to exclude people the most you know I mean
• 57:42
  I was excluded from a a share a work share space I think about two years ago because the the people
• 57:51
  who ran it told me that there were some people there who I I made them feel unsafe because I had
• 58:00
  questioned honey birdets use of a someone I called a man in an advertisement wearing women's lingerie
• 58:12
  and I was I was informed that that person is non-binary but I mean I said look okay well that's
• 58:20
  fair enough but I mean I I just was like I just it's not it's not fair enough well yeah you know I
• 58:26
  again I'm I'm tongue tied because I'm like I don't know what the words are I was just saying at that
• 58:33
  point there had been another person in the you know women's bathing suit and I was like to be
• 58:38
  honest with you when I'm just scrolling my social media I'm getting to the point where I'm going to
• 58:44
  use the word triggered by seeing huge bulging penises in women's clothes like it's like I'm like just
• 58:52
  tell me like I feel like if I knew I was going into a space where I was going to see that it'd be
• 58:56
  different but I'm like oh man I'm kind of it's I just not I'm not into it and um and also
• 59:04
  means underwear and women's underwear has to be sewn differently and has to be made with different
• 59:09
  patterns because we need different gussets to fit in our genitals I'm sorry it's such a turf
• 59:14
  exactly that's exactly what they were saying to me anyway next minute I go into this shared
• 59:19
  office space that I've paid a year in advance to use and they tell me you can't come here anymore
• 59:25
  because you're making people feel unsafe and they go it's part of our exclusion our inclusion
• 59:30
  policy and I was like well how is excluding me how does that fit your inclusion policy
• 59:38
  no it's extraordinary I mean did you see the story about the BBC journalist who was suspended
• 59:43
  from he was one of the hosts of the morning show on the BBC I think it was the morning show
• 59:47
  and on TV and he was trying to explain to the audience a guest who was a trans woman and he said
• 59:55
  trans woman meaning biologically male now woman and the fact that he used he mailed the words
• 1:00:02
  biologically male of a trans woman was you know in contravention of the BBC's editorial standards
• 1:00:10
  like what he's trying to do is articulate to an audience in suburban Manchester who are not up
• 1:00:18
  with all of your pronouns yet what the actual physiology of the human being is what the chromosomes
• 1:00:25
  were what the genitals were at birth like come on guys like kind of cut each other some slack like
• 1:00:31
  talk about not having any emotional empathy or intellectual empathy for where other people live
• 1:00:37
  yeah and I mean I've worked with trans people my whole life so this is where I get my backup and
• 1:00:46
  I get resentful and I go listen come on you know I I'm an ally I'm sure I am I I've never met a
• 1:00:52
  trend and a trans person who cares about this stuff the way that the activists care about the
• 1:00:58
  stuff I have heaps of trans friends they say I'm a they then but if you mess it up door about it
• 1:01:03
  right you know it's like it's not an issue the people who are the most agitated about it are
• 1:01:08
  often the allies or the activists yeah it's like get along yeah and I think to myself again well
• 1:01:15
  you know what I mean there are 65 jurisdictions in the world where gay sex is illegal there are
• 1:01:20
  nine jurisdictions in the world where it's punishable by death how about pushing some activism
• 1:01:27
  and some energy in those areas in those directions that that is happening that is a terrifying
• 1:01:35
  reality on planet earth like the battle isn't one the fundamental battles aren't one
• 1:01:41
  no I mean there's there's a narcissism of small differences here where like the people who are
• 1:01:47
  quite parochial about our own situation yeah our own blessed situation in Australia will squabble
• 1:01:53
  with each other over the most arcane definitions of you know pronouns or how you define whether you
• 1:01:58
  say that the person was assigned male at birth rather than being born male or whatever right like
• 1:02:03
  those are the fights that people are taking to the barricades instead of as you say talking about
• 1:02:08
  what's going on in fucking Saudi Arabia and I'm an enemy I'm like are you joking yeah I'm in it
• 1:02:13
  like I'm never gonna hurt anybody like how can you be spending your time fighting me hmm do you try
• 1:02:20
  do you try to wrestle with this and stand up or on the air no you know what we so we have two
• 1:02:25
  podcasts I've Australian true crime and I have can we be real these are the two podcasts and I guess
• 1:02:31
  I fight fight it in both of them in different ways in Australian true crime we talk about
• 1:02:36
  crimes and we try and we try and use activism that way in in talking to victims talking to victims
• 1:02:42
  families and we talk about things like the the gay bashings in Sydney that period of time we talk
• 1:02:47
  to victims families we talk about legislative issues we talk about in a lot of ways things that
• 1:02:55
  our audience doesn't know they don't know about you know legislation in different parts of Australia
• 1:03:01
  um and different parts of the world so we try and work that way um and then in can we be real
• 1:03:12
  we just I just made the decision you know what I'm just gonna talk the way I talk I know who I am
• 1:03:17
  I know that I am an ally I am I'm just gonna be real I refuse to buckle to this bullshit
• 1:03:24
  and that is just that and I feel like the world will catch up with me again
• 1:03:30
  yeah yeah I've been around a long time I was marching in the streets in the 80s baby you know for
• 1:03:37
  Indigenous rights for gay lesbian trans rights it like I've been around a long time and I'm not
• 1:03:44
  I'm just not buying into this bullshit I refuse and you're not on social media so it doesn't
• 1:03:50
  matter if they hate you for it exactly so you you're not doing stand up anymore yeah we're going
• 1:03:55
  out we're touring this year twice we're touring with um Australian true crime we do true crime
• 1:04:01
  live shows that's not stand up which is not stand up but I can't help but do a little bit at the top
• 1:04:05
  you know so we're doing Melbourne city Brisbane Melbourne with Charlie Busina and Sydney and
• 1:04:11
  Brisbane with Zanthie Mellett Mellett which I'm really excited about and uh bit of that they'll
• 1:04:15
  talk about cases that they've worked on and then a bit of Q and A and then we're going to do Christmas
• 1:04:21
  parties around the country with can we be real so that'll be wild right but not an hour of stand-up
• 1:04:26
  not a not an act can we be real be closer to a live stand-up show yeah but that's not scripted
• 1:04:31
  that's you and bags he just gone but the live show will be the live show will be good yeah okay
• 1:04:37
  I mean I'm just asking because I interviewed Peter Helio who's an old mate of mine recently
• 1:04:41
  on this show and he was saying like the one thing that you always get asked as a stand-up is like
• 1:04:46
  where do you get your ideas from and then number two is can you say other things you can't say
• 1:04:50
  these days that you used to be able to say right the cancel culture question and so if you were
• 1:04:54
  workshopping a lot of material at the moment I'd be interested in whether or not you try to
• 1:04:59
  introduce you try to wrestle with the things that we're wrestling with here and whether or not
• 1:05:04
  that I think yeah I think now we're back I think we're back now I think you can make a joke about
• 1:05:10
  it now I think I think people are relieved I just heard Jerry Jerry sign fell talking about it the
• 1:05:15
  other day and he was like you know what I think people are relaxing about it again and yeah I think
• 1:05:21
  we're past peak woke and I think we're sliding back down the other side where everyone's going oh
• 1:05:26
  thank Christ that's over I think the millennials who brought in the the strictest woke rules are
• 1:05:33
  now parents and they're too tired to keep it up and thank God and I think we're coming back down
• 1:05:42
  to a reality yeah yeah I've got faith in the young ones these days I like the I like the new crop
• 1:05:48
  anything anything but millennials oh I agree it's great they they were held millennials the
• 1:05:55
  boomers of you know of the of the 21st century it's so hilarious how they hate each other and
• 1:06:00
  like God do you understand you're exactly the same people so brilliant and now and now the millennials
• 1:06:06
  are just tired I see them pushing their children around and I'm like suck eggs yeah and uh yeah exactly
• 1:06:14
  that's right it was get back to relax yeah they've all got mortgages yeah now they're on
• 1:06:18
  now they so what and just lastly you mentioned true crime why true crime you know I felt like
• 1:06:25
  it was something I was interested in reading I mean it's actually a genre to hear the rest of
• 1:06:29
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