Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Brandon Quittem | Bitcoin & the Forth Turning | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Brandon Quittem | Bitcoin & the Forth Turning | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:14
Yo, welcome to another episode of Simply Bitcoin iroh.
0:19
Today, we have a very special guest Brandon quidam.
0:23
I hope I pronounce that correctly.
0:25
Yes, I got it right. I got the thumbs up.
0:28
He's just, it's a Bitcoin are all around here.
0:30
Some of the best pieces, he's made.
0:34
He's authored one talking about, the, the fourth turning.
0:38
And when talking about magic mushrooms is it mushrooms.
0:43
Mycelium, I don't know. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna
0:46
I'm gonna bring up Brandon a second and we're going to go
0:48
down the rabbit hole but first, I want to give a shout-out to
0:51
Swan Bitcoin is the best place to stack SATs.
0:54
They are the ones that power simply Bitcoin IRL.
0:57
They also incentivize dollar cost, averaging and self
1:01
custody. Go check out Swan Bitcoin.com
1:04
today. Anyways I wanna want to bring up
1:07
Brandon. How you doing Brandon?
1:11
Yo, yo, yo, what's up Nico? So what did I mess up?
1:14
Because I was reading your facial expressions.
1:15
When I was saying all of that stuff, well, I was just
1:18
laughing. A lot of people who reference
1:21
the mycelium of money article series.
1:23
They always want to tie it to psychedelics and I do mention
1:27
psychedelics in the article like the second part is kind of about
1:30
culture, and there's a lot of parallels there, but that's
1:33
always funny to me. That's like the number one thing
1:35
people remember. Yeah, I mean, because it's the,
1:39
I think that people have like, this Association to it.
1:42
You know, it's like this mental Association to to whatever it
1:47
is, I guess in their own personal Journeys.
1:49
Anyways, I want to tell a quick story before before we rip this.
1:55
So we are a Pacific Bitcoin last week which is literally, I'm not
1:58
just saying this best Bitcoin conference, I went whatever.
2:00
When to it was just so special, the, the airplane Hangar and it
2:05
was just not too big, so you get lost in this.
2:07
Sauce. And but it wasn't too small.
2:08
It was just absolutely epic. You got to walk up to some of
2:12
your favorite bitcoiners. Just have a conversation with
2:14
them. And one of the panels that I was
2:16
on, I was on the main stage and Brandon, and I were hanging out
2:20
backstage, and he was the one directing everything, and he
2:22
goes, Nico, go and I walk in and there's a thousand people and
2:29
the chairs weren't ready to have to go backstage again.
2:32
Holy crap. That was embarrassing, Brandon,
2:35
that's all my bad. Oh, 100% my bad, dude.
2:40
That was, it was a good story. It's a good story to tell though
2:44
but I want to know, how was, how was your experience?
2:47
How was your experience at Pacific Bitcoin?
2:50
Yeah, man. The first, the short answer is
2:53
it was awesome that we flew the whole Swan team in more or less.
2:58
And this was the first time most of us got together in person.
3:01
And so the beginning of the week was a swan corporate off-site,
3:05
like rented a big House, presentations, ice breakers, all
3:09
that kind of stuff. And then we transition into a
3:13
conference and, you know, prepping for panels.
3:16
And there's all these side events, Etc.
3:18
And so it was extremely exhausting, the swans were
3:22
working, you know, from sunup, to sundown, trying to put on a
3:26
happy face at all the events. And so I now I feel for the
3:29
Bitcoin magazine guys, you know, you cck running around the place
3:32
and you try to say hello and he's just frantic like I get it
3:35
bro. But in terms of the conference
3:39
confession, I was not excited. When Cory's like you're doing a
3:43
big conference and in my head I'm thinking look at the road
3:47
map, all these products, all these new hires.
3:50
How can we afford this time and energy on a distraction?
3:53
And yeah, halfway through the first day when everything
3:56
started to click? And people were saying, well you
3:58
guys did a great job. I became a firm believer.
4:02
And so I would call it a home run and yeah, happy we did it,
4:06
dude, you guys killed it. It.
4:07
I so I've spoken to a lot of people throw conferences, and
4:10
basically the same, it's always the same as a Droid.
4:12
The first year is a excuse, my language, cluster F and then,
4:17
you know, and then it gets progressively better.
4:18
But what was interesting is that you guys killed it from day like
4:22
the first time, and that was really, really impressive.
4:26
I had a whole lot of fun, dude, I can't I can't recommend it
4:29
enough for anybody. Anyways, let's pivot back to
4:33
let's let's dive into this topic.
4:35
Bitcoin is the mycelium of money.
4:37
Why is that Brandon? I know you have a 59 minute
4:40
article for anyone to read, but it is, it makes good
4:44
conversation for a pod for sure. We're just to like tie off the,
4:49
the conferencing quick Alpha to your people, Pacific Bitcoin
4:54
2023.com. We just released a couple
4:57
hundred early bird tickets. The tickets would be like to at
5:03
least two times as expensive when we start actually selling
5:06
them. So secure The tickets.
5:07
Now, if you want to go and you can get a full refund by July
5:10
first, because we don't have the dates figured out yet somewhere
5:13
between September and November. Yeah.
5:17
Anyways, get those tickets. If you want to secure them cheap
5:19
you can resell them, you can get a refund.
5:21
So no-brainer. Okay, I see them of money quick
5:26
background. I am not a biologist a scientist
5:30
or a Mycologist when you studies fungi.
5:32
I get that. A lot of people think.
5:34
Wow, you know so much about biology must be a scientist.
5:36
No. I took one biology class in
5:39
college, I just like the outdoors and like most
5:42
bitcoiners, I nerd out and whatever rabbit holes in front
5:45
of me. And so I just have a decade of
5:48
amateur studies into mycology, the study of mushrooms and that
5:53
predates Bitcoin. By many years, I like mushrooms
5:57
from many angles, whether that's culinary mushrooms, whether
6:00
that's foraging whether that's just starting their ecology,
6:03
which is, fascinating or psychedelics.
6:05
They're all Ting to me. And when I came across a
6:09
Bitcoin, like, most people in 2017, I was trading all, the all
6:13
coins making money, thought I was a genius quickly and 2018 I
6:18
realized I was, in fact, not a genius.
6:19
And I watched all those Anonymous tokens more or less go
6:24
to zero and I started to figure out.
6:26
Okay, there's something here, I obviously don't know what I'm
6:30
doing and so I kind of went back into the lab and started
6:32
studying again and I sort of had to reteach myself economics from
6:37
the Ground up and read all the Bitcoin books at the time and
6:41
then the lightning Network comes out.
6:43
And I'm looking at a graph of the lightning Network at a meet
6:46
up in Bali and like maybe May or something around 2018.
6:51
And I see this graph of lightning Network, many people
6:53
have seen it and it looks like mycelium, which is the primary
6:57
form of the mushroom organism so quick fungi, 101 fungi or their
7:03
own kingdom. They're not plants, are not
7:05
animals or totally unique there. Actually much more similar to
7:08
animals and plants both plants and at are both fungi and
7:12
animals. Inhale, oxygen, exhale, carbon
7:15
dioxide. The primary difference is that
7:18
fungi have external stomachs and animals have internal stomachs
7:23
and so fungi their primary form that they take is underground or
7:29
inside trees and it's an it's a one cell walled Network
7:33
underground. You can kind of think of it like
7:36
Roots Underground. But they're really tiny roots
7:39
and those underground roots called mycelium.
7:41
They connect all the trees and plants together and they
7:44
literally form information and trade networks underground.
7:48
And the most recent mycology studies are showing that they
7:51
perform what we consider Market functions underground.
7:55
So some mycelium will horde water when it rains and then
7:58
wait for a drought and then they will resell that water to the
8:01
trees when they need it, most in exchange for fats and sugars,
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which the tree produces through photos.
8:07
Synthesis. So, the mushrooms mine minerals
8:09
the plants produce fats and sugars from the Sun and then
8:12
there's a trade Network underground and back to the
8:16
lightning Network. That same network archetype.
8:20
That looks like my see. I'm going to go.
8:21
Whoa, whoa, whoa, something here.
8:23
I took my little scooter back to The Villa in Bali where I was
8:26
living at the time with my girlfriend.
8:28
Now wife. And I just it just hit me.
8:31
I just started scribbling writing like crazy, and I more,
8:33
or less wrote the first, the first part of that For part
8:37
mycelium of money, series that day, but it took me maybe six
8:41
months. So towards the end of 2018
8:43
before I felt like I could publish it because to be honest,
8:46
first of all, nobody knew who I was at the time and all the
8:50
content I saw was Bitcoin is you know here's an economic analysis
8:55
of Bitcoin. Here's some Game Theory or some
8:57
technology Etc and I'm like well I think Bitcoin might be a
9:00
living organism and soak a little gun-shy there and
9:05
actually Dan held published A series in 2018 called planting
9:10
Bitcoin, which he used some sort of Entry entry analogies to how
9:15
Satoshi sort of like planted the seed.
9:18
And he watered The Garden of Bitcoin etcetera and I was like,
9:21
okay, this is what received, let's see what happens.
9:23
And he helped me, sort of Polish it up before I shipped it and
9:27
that was the first time I ever had an article or anything.
9:29
Go viral on Twitter before, which was just crazy.
9:34
Yeah, that's sort of a longer than I was anticipating.
9:37
Humble any comments here before I start to describe a little.
9:40
Yes, he said it's actually really interesting when you said
9:43
that Bitcoin is a living organism.
9:45
I 100% agree with that. The way that it acts it, it it
9:49
it plays on human greed's to ensure its survival and that is
9:54
one of the like, you know, when you're first starting, starting
9:57
to go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and you have these Eureka
10:00
moments, right? You're just like oh my God, this
10:03
thing and then you know and you have like many of those Those
10:07
butt. It's interesting the way and I'm
10:12
going to give this example because I think it's the perfect
10:14
example, right? The Chinese Communist Party
10:16
they've been Bitcoin mining and within a couple of six months
10:22
six seven months. Bitcoin hash rate is backed
10:25
all-time high no Central Authority.
10:27
No CEO pushing that. It was just pure profit
10:31
incentive alone and it says if the network has like, co-opted
10:37
human beings to make It lives to fight another day, and it's
10:42
insane, right? And then it rewards you
10:44
obviously with, you know, Angie, you the incentive, the
10:47
sovereignty, etc, etc. So it's kind of like a, you
10:53
know, I'm talking about the great white shark and there's
10:54
this tiny little fish that swims underneath.
10:57
I don't know what the correct, you know, I don't know the name.
11:02
I know you're talking about those.
11:03
Yeah, they have a symbiotic relation biotic.
11:05
There we go. That's that's the thing.
11:07
So I 100% agree. Agree with that and it's
11:10
interesting because bitcoiners all it and I've said this many
11:14
times you always end up coming to a very similar conclusion but
11:19
everyone hits it from a very different angle but it all kind
11:23
of comes together at the end. I don't know if you want to add
11:26
to that. Yeah, I totally agree and to be
11:30
fair I didn't come up with the idea that been going to living
11:32
organism actually Ralph Merkle from like Merkle tree
11:35
cryptography. He was the first one who ever
11:38
published about this. Think it was 2016.
11:41
Maybe and we're talking about Dows and his quote is something
11:44
like Bitcoin is the first example of a new form of life,
11:47
it lives. Because anyone anywhere can run
11:50
a copy of its code, it lives because the copies are always
11:53
talking to each other. It pays us to keep it alive,
11:57
Etc. And so I'm saying on the
11:59
shoulders of giants Gigi has written about this sense.
12:03
Excuse me, Tomer has written about this.
12:05
And so your point about many people, finding the same
12:09
conclusion through Bitcoin is so true.
12:11
This happens over and over and over again and you could even
12:15
say that the people trying to figure out what this thing is,
12:18
are also a power part of the meta organism.
12:21
That is Bitcoin, right? We're trying to explain it or
12:25
ideas bump into each other. I don't know where my Ideas
12:28
start and where yours pick up and they seem to like travel
12:32
through all those trying to figure this thing out.
12:34
It's I think that's an important part and with regards to its
12:37
architecture I think the unique element I brought here is that I
12:42
kind of view it as a decentralized network archetype
12:46
and this is the form that that mycelium take.
12:48
So we describe them with the trade underground, right?
12:51
There's no central processing unit of mycelium it's really
12:54
more like millions of little different individuals that Work
12:58
together to form a network, right?
13:00
And Bitcoins the same way we collectively run nodes, we
13:05
gossip through the network. We're out transactions.
13:08
We communicate developers change the code we updated on her nose,
13:13
right? And together, the sum of all
13:15
those parts is actually what creates the network.
13:18
And if you cut them mycelium Network in half, you just have
13:22
to networks now. Right, euphoric, Bitcoin,
13:24
there's two networks, there's no central part to reinforce that
13:27
And it also learns right from the mycelium example, let's say
13:33
there's an underground attacker, some bacteria, or some other
13:37
fungus is starting to attack the network information, travels
13:41
through the network to specialize, mushroom cells.
13:44
I'm going to call mushroom scientists which pisses off the
13:47
actual Mycologist, but if anyways information travels to
13:51
the network, the mushroom scientists, literally create a
13:54
new custom enzyme that's never been created before.
14:11
Looks like Brandon might be having some connection issues.
14:18
Opti jump in. Well Brandon get comes back.
14:22
Well, it was just about to get real real real spicy.
14:26
It was getting so good. Oh man.
14:29
It was getting so good. Oh, dude.
14:33
Yeah. No.
14:33
He was talking about and it's interesting because in oh, there
14:38
we go. You're back.
14:40
All right. Oh no.
14:41
Did I lose you guys? Yeah, but you're back.
14:45
All right, man. You were, you were literally
14:46
about to hit the home run. Oh man.
14:50
I mean nuke. My phone internet just first.
14:53
Okay, do you know where I left it on?
14:55
Left off there? Where did you man?
14:58
You were saying so many good things are difficult.
15:01
Think you dropped off at mushroom scientists?
15:03
Mushroom scientific getting mad. Yeah, perfect.
15:06
So the summarize that underground the mycelial
15:09
network, it gets attacked, right?
15:11
It's a constant biological battle underground and when the
15:15
my seal Network gets attacked it sends information through the
15:18
network to the mushrooms. Scientist.
15:20
And they literally create a new custom enzyme Through Chemistry,
15:24
and then they ship that enzyme over to where the problem is,
15:27
and that enzyme deals with the attackers, and over time that my
15:31
seal of network retains all the molecules, it's produced to
15:34
defend itself and it becomes better and stronger over time.
15:39
Right? So it learns and it becomes more
15:41
anti fragile and that's also the reason or like through that lens
15:45
it's easy to understand why fungi are the most All adapted
15:50
species on our planet. They've been around for billions
15:52
of years and the largest organism.
15:54
Today is actually a mycelial network in eastern.
15:57
Oregon from the honey mushroom. It's like 5,000 years old and
16:01
it's literally died eating an entire forest in eastern Oregon.
16:05
And now let's compare that to bitcoin, right?
16:07
Let's say there's a bug in the software or there's some
16:10
environmental Fudd, right information travels through the
16:13
network. It finds its way to the
16:15
developers or mushroom. Scientists the developers
16:17
produce a new software. Sure enzyme.
16:20
And then the developers ship it out, to the nodes.
16:22
We all update, take care of the problem and like the mycelial
16:25
network, the Bitcoin Network, learns a response to its
16:28
environment and becomes more anti fragile over time, whole
16:33
Mica. And and it I love that analogy.
16:37
I because it what else could you compare it to like that?
16:40
That is the thing to compare it to.
16:41
And this concept, right of it's not it, you say it in your
16:47
piece, decentralized intelligence.
16:49
And Is exactly what it is because it's, you would say that
16:53
human beings are kind of the intelligence of it and then then
16:58
kind of working together. But there is no Central
17:01
Authority, kind of dictating where should we wear?
17:05
Where should we go? Whatever.
17:07
It's kind of there's kind of a battle and people are like, no,
17:09
it's this. No, it's that.
17:11
But the thing just keeps on chugging along Les if none of
17:15
that exists and it just keeps providing those incentives to
17:19
keep The human beings captured basically working for it.
17:23
Totally. And the only assumption, we have
17:25
to make here for this to be true, is the fact that humans
17:30
want to preserve themselves humans, want to increase their
17:34
position in life. Humans want to reproduce, right?
17:36
Like the core biological desire, that drives all life, that same
17:40
desire, if that stays constant, then humans will have an
17:44
incentive to keep Bitcoin going, right?
17:46
And the more people that join the network, the stronger.
17:49
It is the harder it is to change and the longer we can assume it
17:52
will live because it turns out humans like to like money we
17:57
need money at super important and we just so happen to have
18:00
created the best money that Humanity has ever seen.
18:03
So I think the lifespan the Bitcoin would be measured in
18:06
centuries whereas previous monies it's more on the order of
18:10
decades and we could even say Bitcoins Immortal you know it's
18:15
a bold claim but I think there's at least some rational thought
18:19
behind It another question might be like why would it be good
18:23
that Bitcoin mimics life, right? So what if it's alive like why
18:28
would we even want that? Well one thought is that through
18:32
evolutionary pressures, the the organisms that are around today
18:37
they have successful strategies that allow them to to survive
18:41
and thrive in their unique Niche.
18:44
And so like the things we see today they're not by mistake,
18:49
right? Right like the humming birds and
18:51
the flowers or that sucker fish and the shark, right?
18:55
Those are strategies that work today and the fact that Bitcoin
19:00
mimics the most successful evolutionary strategy, weary, or
19:03
aware of lends credibility to the idea that Bitcoin is going
19:07
to be here for a long time, or that strategy is a good
19:10
strategy. Another way to look at life or
19:13
living versus non living. So life is good, right?
19:17
It's anti fragile, it learns. From its environment, its
19:21
robust, right? I think of an old growth forest.
19:25
It's more like an ecosystem and it's very hard to attack
19:29
compared to let's say Fiat or something.
19:32
That's not alive. Let's think of just standard.
19:37
Wheat mono, crop agriculture, right?
19:40
It's really efficient, can get a lot of yield per acre in a mono
19:44
crop. However, one little problem and
19:48
the whole thing goes down. Down.
19:49
Right? There's a famous case study of
19:51
bananas. I think this was in the 50s and
19:55
the way we produce bananas is we essentially just clone one
19:58
species over and over and over again.
20:01
So something like, 80% of all the bananas in the world at this
20:04
time, where a single genetic code, and another fungus figured
20:08
out how to consume that banana. And what happened, was that one
20:13
fungus? It all the banana crops in the
20:15
entire world, over a couple year period and it was a massive food
20:18
shortage, right? So Fiat or monoculture, or human
20:23
design, or not in alignment with nature.
20:26
All those things are cinnamons, synonyms.
20:28
If we go that route hyper efficient, but super super
20:32
vulnerable and Bitcoin. On the other hand is that robust
20:36
old growth forest. That's resilient.
20:39
Obviously the parallel with Fiats there, too, right?
20:42
We hyper engineer. Our economy, we try to play God
20:45
and steer the ship with Central Banking.
20:49
Which Which fundamentally misunderstands the problem.
20:52
The problem is that there's too much information markets, are
20:55
hyper complex and we try to manage them like like the big
20:59
brains that we think we are, however, Fiat money, gives you
21:03
price stability in the short term, but it wrist, that, that
21:06
blow-up period when the systemic collapse always occurs, right?
21:11
And Bitcoins the opposite. There's no price stability in
21:14
the short term. However, systemically it's very
21:16
stable because shocks in the Me will not cause Bitcoin to break.
21:22
There's no way to politically capture Bitcoin and inflate it,
21:25
which comes back to haunt us. So hopefully that that parallel
21:29
makes sense 100%. And one of the things, I don't
21:32
know if I want to go kind of on the okay.
21:35
Yes. Because people might find this
21:37
entertaining. Did you know that in Peru,
21:40
there's these tiny frogs that hang out with tarantulas, and
21:44
the Tarantulas don't eat the frogs, and the front of the
21:47
turned. The frogs are right next to the
21:48
tarantula. And then the trick, the frogs,
21:50
make sure that the trenches kids don't get eaten.
21:54
And then the Frog eludes this chemical to let the tarantula
21:57
know. Hey, this guy is your friend in
22:00
the in the type of instinct type level.
22:04
But it kind of reminds me of what you were saying, right.
22:07
It's that like Nature has figured out this way whether
22:11
it's a sucker fish in the shark, right to didn't just come out of
22:15
accident. It's not that the Tarantulas
22:16
looking at that frog is like look, that's lunch.
22:18
No, it's just It's a mutually. It's a mutually beneficial
22:21
relationship and I kind of want to tie this in with something
22:24
that you said in. Your article writer says,
22:27
mycelium has no central point of fit.
22:28
No central point of control. Any individual part can be
22:32
removed but the system as a whole survives.
22:34
And that reminds me of one of satoshi's quote, right, where he
22:37
says governments are very good at at shutting down, centralized
22:41
entities, but decentralized entities have been, you know,
22:46
holding their own. I think he was referencing tour.
22:49
And in that quote specifically. But it's funny watching
22:54
government's kind of enter this bargaining phase right now,
22:59
where they don't fully understand that their ability to
23:03
shut things down the way that they've been used that they've
23:06
been used to doing. So is gone and, you know, having
23:11
a monopoly on violence here isn't going to be as beneficial
23:16
as it was in the past. What would you say about that
23:20
statement? So, you're saying that central
23:24
banks are losing control of the money supply.
23:28
Is that kind of where you're going with that, or no, I'm
23:31
going with. So, you know, the White House
23:34
report, right? The digital assets framework,
23:36
right? You know, the hostility towards
23:38
Bitcoin, you have, you know, the V European Union, right?
23:41
Trying to ban self custody, you know, tried to trying to kyc
23:44
wallets, right? And the point that I'm trying to
23:46
make Brandon is that their usual ways of cutting off the Metaphor
23:51
the metaphorical head doesn't work here but it's just it's
23:57
really nice to see them. Trying its kind of vicious.
24:01
Yes. 100%. Right.
24:04
They're approaching this like another country, another
24:09
business, something with the leader something where you can
24:12
regulate it, right? And that fundamentally
24:14
misunderstands what Bitcoin is you could say Bitcoins and idea,
24:18
how are you going to shut down an idea?
24:20
You could say, Bitcoins the mycelium of money.
24:23
Well, you cut the head off what happens now there's two or three
24:26
or four, or ten thousand. So I think that's a really good
24:29
analogy. I think another analogy here,
24:32
you know, I love analogies. I have this on written essay
24:36
which I'll just describe a little bit right now which is
24:38
looking at Bitcoin through the Apache, Native Americans and the
24:43
Apache were mostly settled in the southwest of the u.s.
24:46
There were kind of like the Dothraki if you remember from
24:49
Game of Thrones. So think horse try.
24:51
Tribe, very egalitarian. They just pick a leader.
24:54
Whoever they went was the strongest guy, they just follow
24:57
them pretty much. And if there's a disagreement
24:59
between two liters, they just fracture and they go off and do
25:02
their own thing and this type of inefficient but also anti
25:07
fragile system survived for a very long time.
25:11
So there was about a hundred year war with Mexico, where
25:14
Mexico could not stop the Apache, they gave up.
25:18
And then the Americans essentially moved Where they
25:21
interact with the Apache, they couldn't stop them, right?
25:24
They walked, right in to your point, they walked, right in.
25:27
They would kill the leader of the Apache and be like, all
25:29
right, good, we're done here, and then they would leave, and
25:32
then they would realize, well, the Apache are, they don't care
25:34
at all what their leaders. They just multiply their
25:36
Everywhere. We can't stop them and it went
25:38
on for decades and okay. So what does that tell?
25:42
It's just like Bitcoin, you can't approach it head-on,
25:45
right? So they're half of the state,
25:49
both trying to attack the Apache.
25:51
And trying to attack Bitcoin, they have to be more creative
25:53
than that. They have to do some sort of
25:56
social attack or corrupt us from the inside, right?
26:00
And so, what happened with the Apache, finally, the u.s. got
26:04
smart and they realized they're not dealing with a normal org.
26:07
So they show up and they say, hey, Apache leader.
26:10
Here's a hundred head of cattle, which would be considered a very
26:13
valuable offering, and they said we're just going to give this to
26:16
you, you're the leader. Why don't you figure out how to
26:18
distribute this wealth, amongst your people?
26:21
Then what happened? Well, this nomadic tribe was not
26:24
used to material possessions, they all of a sudden got all
26:27
this wealth and they became corrupt so that the Apache
26:30
protocol that is centralized. Apache protocol, could not
26:33
withstand becoming rich. Essentially corrupted them from
26:37
the inside out and then they broke down and were instantly
26:41
shattered, once they broke protocol.
26:43
So I think we need to be careful as bitcoiners for that same type
26:48
of attack, right? If we sacrifice the Suppose of
26:52
Bitcoin in exchange for number go up.
26:55
Then we might end up with a decade of riches and then we
26:59
totally give up and Bitcoins gone forever, right?
27:02
And so I think that's an important.
27:03
Reminder, keep an eye out for the social attack stick to the
27:07
principles think long-term, right?
27:09
All of those who be lessons to take here.
27:12
So it's clear that their law school raw, right?
27:15
Their last gasp and this is where they're putting all their
27:18
eggs in that basket, is the Central Bank.
27:20
Digital But what I've been noticing Brandon is that, I've
27:24
tweeted this out. I think I've screamed this from
27:26
the rooftops all the time, right?
27:28
Is that incentives are stronger than coercion and I don't think
27:32
central bank. Digital currencies will ever be
27:34
able to match Bitcoins incentives and that's not just
27:38
me saying that the in Nigeria, it's fascinating, right?
27:42
You know, 30 to 35 percent of the youth population, it's
27:45
adopted Bitcoin. The government in response
27:48
rolled out a cbgc, the inara, but they didn't.
27:51
Fix the fundamental problem, right?
27:52
Is that what what is the reason as to why people opting out
27:56
opted out of government currency in the first place is because of
27:59
that twenty percent inflation rate and governments.
28:02
I don't think they'll ever want to give up being able to do two
28:05
things with money. They'll always want to control
28:07
it and they'll always want to debase it.
28:09
Because without debasing it, they can't pay for their own
28:11
bureaucracy, they can't pay for themselves.
28:14
So I agree. I think that the helicopter
28:17
money social attack, here's your, you know, a hundred
28:20
dollars CB D c--, please put your iris against a scanner and
28:27
you know, sell your soul and will capture you forever but
28:30
you'll get your stimmy check. I don't know man.
28:34
I perhaps it's my it I'm naive to say that and perhaps it's me
28:39
staying in the Bitcoin Echo chamber for so long but I just
28:43
don't see them. I don't see them very successful
28:47
perhaps you know Alex Cloud scene has that famous book,
28:49
right? You know, Financial privileges.
28:51
Age. Perhaps they might be a little
28:52
bit more successful in countries that have powerful Fiat
28:56
currencies but in the developing world the world the war is lost.
28:59
They lost they there's nothing they could do Bitcoin, Bitcoin
29:03
wins. Yeah I think that's actually
29:06
extremely good point. So a couple things one, I think
29:10
that in the West Central Bank, digital currencies on net will
29:14
be very popular and I hate that, but I think it's true.
29:18
And the reason is, if you look around, people are in horrible.
29:21
Konami conditions and this decade is only looking to get
29:24
worse. And when people are desperate,
29:26
they're going to take this Timmy, checks through the app,
29:29
right? You want your government
29:30
benefits, get the app, you want your own employment payouts, get
29:33
the app you want your electricity subsidy because
29:37
energy is, do I get the app? You can't buy food, get the app,
29:40
right? And so I think there'll be a lot
29:42
of people who blind these submit in the in the developed and that
29:46
are in the developing World. Your spot on the Trust In
29:49
institutions, there is So Gone on average.
29:52
Some countries are different but generally speaking those folks
29:55
do not trust their leaders and rightfully so and so I think we
29:59
charted this out on a graph, it would be the higher your trust
30:03
in government. The more likely, you'll adopt
30:05
the Central Bank, digital currency and the opposite is
30:08
also true. Now with regards to cvtc's
30:11
versus Bitcoin, I think that this brings up a really big
30:15
point and this point is largely lost on the crypto, folks.
30:20
We're bitcoiners scene. At this and I believe that the
30:23
single thing we're doing here, this whole industry, all this,
30:26
all this stuff going on is simply to take money away from
30:29
State and embedded in. That idea is the fact that
30:33
Central planning is not going to work.
30:36
You cannot do it. Okay?
30:38
And humans, believe that we can write history is littered with
30:42
examples of smart Giga. Brains, who accumulate power
30:46
capture the money printer or political power.
30:49
And they essentially thing That because they're smart and they
30:52
have all this experience that will be able to steer the ship
30:55
appropriately and it's our responsibility, you know, Pat
30:58
ourselves on the back, but time and time again, we find that
31:02
it's not possible to do this. Our greed takes over.
31:05
We make mistakes, right? For example.
31:08
Right now, if you want to get elected, you should say, hey
31:11
I'll give everyone free money if you elect me and that temptation
31:15
to promise handouts to the populace is very strong and that
31:20
cycle just Results in US, breaking the money over and over
31:23
and over again. And Hyatt called that the Fatal
31:26
conceit, assuming that we can centrally planned when the
31:28
answer is, we can't. And so, rather than embracing
31:32
this priest class to this year, the economy we should be
31:35
embracing markets, we should be embracing, which our markets are
31:39
essentially to centralize information processing,
31:41
machines, who can digest every single, individual persons hopes
31:47
desires needs market conditions whether right like Us bad
31:52
weather and China, can change the copper price in Chile, which
31:55
can make plumbers lose their job in America, right?
32:00
I just made that up, but things like that, do exist and so, it's
32:04
important that we push that decision, making that
32:07
information processing to that the markets and have his light
32:10
of touch as possible. From the central planning
32:13
perspective and money, is that the most important foundational
32:17
layer in that societal stack. So it's most most important with
32:21
me. Our markets, perfect.
32:23
No. But it's the best algorithm we
32:25
have. And so, back to bitcoin, what it
32:27
essentially does, is it removes the ability to capture the
32:31
money. And what that does is it tells
32:34
sends a signal to all the rich. Powerful people who would be
32:37
trying to take over the money. It says, sorry you can't change
32:40
the rules. Okay, well, I guess what are we
32:43
going to do now? Well, I guess we have to
32:44
actually produce if we want more value in this world, right?
32:48
So it essentially Dee Dee incentivize Has political
32:51
capture and incentivizes creating value.
32:55
So shifts power from the political class of the
32:57
productive class and that that falls down in everyone.
33:01
Excuse me, more people producing produces more value, more
33:04
Innovation lowers prices increases quality of life and
33:08
it's just that tiny little shift, but I think it will have
33:10
profound impact long-term. No, it's going to fundamentally
33:14
change the world and it's funny we were saying this in the very
33:16
beginning, right? So you all kind of reach the
33:18
same conclusion. The way that I say it is that
33:21
Insulates capitalism from Politico, from from politics in
33:25
a way, right? And I think that's what it
33:27
fundamentally is. And it's unfortunate because a
33:30
large percentage of the youth in, you know, a lot of these in
33:34
specific in the Western countries, they, inherently
33:36
know, something is wrong, right? And if the system is so broken
33:41
that they're like look, it has to be the economic system, which
33:44
is a tragedy, right? We know that, you know, the
33:47
alternative I regionally come from as well, right?
33:49
And it's the Socialism's does not work, it does breaks every
33:54
single time, and it's catastrophic since everyone to
33:57
Poverty, but in a way I do empathize with them, because I
34:02
do think that they're right that there is something wrong, but
34:06
what both political parties are so smart and doing is that it's
34:10
like, listen, if we get the Republicans in charge, we will
34:12
fix the issue. And then the Democrats say the
34:15
exact same thing. But the entire time no one's
34:18
actually paying attention to what the fundamental issue is.
34:21
The fundamental issue is is that as long as it, there's a few
34:24
Elite that get to create money for free that everyone else has
34:27
to work for the incentives will never be aligned.
34:30
It will just, it will never work.
34:33
But hopefully, Brandon. And I think we're both kind of
34:36
in the trenches fighting this war, right?
34:38
This information where this Heart Is War for hearts and
34:40
Minds, right? It's do you think that we're
34:44
going to be able to wake enough people up before?
34:47
You know, the inevitable Clash happens because I I think that,
34:52
you know, that powerful political class Bitcoin is a
34:55
fundamental threat to their existence to their stuff to the
34:59
status quo, right? They love having that privilege.
35:02
They love having that power and and I fundamentally believe that
35:07
they think having that power they can do what's best for
35:11
everybody else. Yeah man.
35:15
I think you have absolutely nailed that and to underline the
35:18
point with young people today, right?
35:20
You look around and you see a bleak future you see you see?
35:26
No hope young people think that the Boomers just sort of like
35:29
sold the future for their own benefit.
35:32
The planets going to die. Capitalism is the problem,
35:35
right? That's the conclusion people.
35:37
Think we have to get rid of capitalism and and go to
35:40
Communism, socialism something like that.
35:42
And that is a huge mistake. Empathize with how they got
35:46
there but it's totally wrong and I had similar Thoughts full.
35:50
You know full disclosure 2015 2016 that time period.
35:54
I thought Bernie Sanders was the right approach.
35:56
I made the same mistake and the real problem is something more
36:00
like monetary socialism. So a central banking system at
36:05
the center of Economics or you could call it cronyism or
36:08
corporatism, right? Where we essentially just
36:11
prostitute out, all the laws to whoever has the most Economic
36:14
power. And that's not markets.
36:17
That's not capitalism. And my response here is that
36:21
markets, are how value is created?
36:24
The fact that we can sit on Twitter and complain about
36:26
capitalism from Brooklyn with our MacBook and lattes.
36:30
That's because of capitalism right?
36:32
Socialism, doesn't create value and it's not an efficient
36:36
process. So I think we need to be mindful
36:39
of young people. I think we need to reteach the
36:42
value of markets and You know, are we able to do it or is it
36:46
going to be too late or is nobody going to care?
36:48
I think that's an important question and the more I used to
36:51
think all we have to do is tell people about Bitcoin and and
36:54
explain it and I'll actually and people will learn.
36:58
Maybe that's because I learned that way or at least I try to
37:01
but I think the reality is pain is the most powerful teacher.
37:05
I don't like this but it is true.
37:07
And right now what most people are figuring out is that and you
37:11
can't print energy energy. She is physics your platitudes,
37:16
do nothing to energy markets and people in Europe especially are
37:20
finding out that their electricity bills.
37:22
Going up a lot. Oh weird increase.
37:24
Energy costs equals increased food.
37:27
Oh, weird Germany. Can't even afford their own
37:30
manufacturing companies anymore because those companies can't
37:33
afford the energy inputs to produce their goods.
37:35
So hundred to three hundred year old companies in Germany are
37:39
closing down because this economic shock is too great for
37:42
them. Meaning You prices.
37:44
And so, I think the first lesson is we're going to learn that
37:48
energy is foundational to society.
37:51
As we experience, that pain as individuals, we will say okay,
37:55
maybe solar panels are going to save us, maybe we should keep
37:58
our new code pants on and maybe produce a bunch more, right?
38:02
So reality is going to interface with humans.
38:04
We're going to be more smart with energy.
38:06
I think the same is true with money and I think we saw a
38:10
little bit of this during the covid.
38:12
Period, right. We got the Each X and
38:14
everybody's yoloing GameStop and whatever.
38:18
I don't think they learn the lesson.
38:20
I think that they deep down inside felt like something was
38:23
off, they have no future, so they're just gambling.
38:25
It's like, I'm already poor. I'm either going to shoot the
38:27
moon on Dogecoin or fuck it. We're just going to just party
38:31
and burn this into the ground. And I think this decade, it's
38:34
going to be a slow process of people waking up to the fact
38:38
that their savings accounts aren't working.
38:41
There's nowhere safe to put their money.
38:43
They're getting For every day inflation, over time really
38:46
matters. And as people are realizing that
38:50
one by one, they will look around and they'll say ha, maybe
38:53
I should look into this Bitcoin thing and that's the role of our
38:57
decentralized education, marketing engine that is the
39:01
Bitcoin. That is the bitcoiners when
39:04
people are ready. It's our job to convert them
39:06
quickly on word them fast, you know, speaking their language.
39:10
So they understand it right when the student is ready, The
39:14
teacher appears. Okay.
39:16
So she'll lightly right essentially.
39:18
I'm saying don't go try to convince people that aren't
39:21
ready to learn about Bitcoin when they're ready, they'll get
39:23
it quickly and they'll adopt it fast.
39:25
Other than that you're wasting your time and energy.
39:27
That's my belief. And we look at adoption Cycles.
39:31
One last quick thing. When we look at adoption Cycles
39:33
over time, it started with a bunch of cypherpunks
39:36
Libertarians developers, like really, really weird people by
39:40
Society standards. It's this tiny little hot new
39:43
club. In the middle and then the first
39:45
hype cycle occurs, and it starts attracting a little bit more
39:49
reasonable people. This might have been like more
39:52
mainstream Libertarians or people who are on slashed out
39:55
like the average, coders who maybe think outside the box,
39:58
they join 2017 comes it's like people who are One Foot In The
40:01
Matrix, one foot out and each time these adoptions Cycles
40:05
grow, there's more surface area on the outside of the Bitcoin
40:09
Network and the narratives are more relatable to to more normal
40:13
people. Right?
40:14
So each expansion phase, we refine our narrative.
40:17
It gets watered down, it's more approachable.
40:20
And I think that's where we are now.
40:22
Is just, we just finished another hype cycle where all the
40:24
celebrities got confused with end of TS, and whatever.
40:28
And most people will leave from that period, they'll tuck their
40:31
tail between their legs. It's all scam, my bad, but a
40:34
percentage of people stay and those people become hardcore and
40:40
they become part of the nucleus at that continues to grow.
40:43
And so, Is the teacher and pain is coming.
40:46
So people, learn 100%. I fundamentally agree with you
40:51
and this, and this is a perfect segue to one of your other
40:55
pieces, right Bitcoin and the rhymes of History, right?
40:58
And you brand and we're actually one of the people that
41:00
introduced me to the idea of the fourth turning, right?
41:03
And just to simplify it, right? It's his very simple idea.
41:07
I'm sure you guys have seen the memes memes are such a great way
41:10
of conveying information. Quickly.
41:13
Weak men create hard. Times Hard Times, create strong
41:15
men, strong men, create good times, good times, create weak
41:19
men, and I had the pleasure and privilege to have Lawrence Le
41:24
Pas Le part on the show, and he's a big believer in the
41:27
fourth turning as well. And he was basically making an
41:30
argument how the millennial generation and Brandon looks
41:33
like you and I are roughly around the same age.
41:35
We fall into the hero archetype, right?
41:37
We are living through weak. Men have created hard times and
41:42
hard times in my And to believe is that hard times are creating
41:47
strong men, right? The truth is important, it's not
41:50
so much about the feelings. It's not so much about.
41:53
Look, this is, you know, the empathy.
41:54
It's like, look, we don't have the luxury of thinking that way.
42:00
And unfortunately, I think it's created the time that we are
42:03
today. And I've talked to Opti about
42:05
this for many, many, many times. We've had this conversation,
42:09
we're in a way Brandon. Our generation is a little It
42:14
more militant man because we don't have an alternative,
42:17
right? You were talking about your
42:19
experience with your Bernie Sanders supporter because you
42:23
fundamentally believed, look this, this this isn't, okay.
42:27
I can't afford anything. I can't afford a home, right?
42:31
So is this the fourth turning, right?
42:34
Are we are we in the middle of it?
42:37
I really believe it began 2016. Donald Trump got elected and
42:42
holy crap. That just Threw a bunch of stuff
42:46
on, you know, on the grill. And then, bro, everything just
42:49
started getting crazy and then the pandemic hit and then, you
42:52
know, all of these institutions that we once believed had our
42:56
best interest, turned out to be frauds, you know?
43:00
And the case the United Nations they released an article, a
43:03
paper saying we must D incentivize the adoption of
43:06
Bitcoin in developing countries. They mention they don't mention
43:10
inflation. The IMF going out going above
43:13
and Beyond to dictate what a sovereign country can can and
43:18
cannot do, right? And I think our perceptions of
43:21
all these institutions, which were seen crumbling before our
43:25
eyes are dying, man. You know, and it's crazy.
43:29
So, what were your thoughts on writing this piece and how does
43:34
Bitcoin incorporate into all of this?
43:37
Yeah. Totally do we have like an hour
43:40
to answer that one. Oh man, we have roughly 20
43:43
minutes. I'll go fast on your first
43:47
point. Why can people not see it,
43:50
right? Why is the New York Times
43:52
directly saying developing code? You should not adopt Bitcoin.
43:55
The answer is the opposite is true.
43:58
Of course, they need Bitcoin. They need it way more than you
44:00
and I do but they can't see it. So they're just acting against
44:04
reality and I think the reason why is because Is Paradigm,
44:08
shifts are really hard for humans.
44:10
Change is hard and so the New York Times represents the
44:13
previous era, the previous Paradigm and they're not,
44:16
they're not embracing what's coming.
44:18
And so, they just, they literally can't see it.
44:20
They're incentivized. Not to see it.
44:22
They don't want to see it. Their World Views built up
44:24
around, not seeing it and so they just act crazy.
44:28
Okay, next Point. Why did I write this essay?
44:31
What's the point of this thing? Like maybe March April?
44:35
May 20 20, We're in covid. Lockdown, I'm losing my mind.
44:39
What's going on? This all sucks.
44:42
I don't trust the Central Powers, you know, pulling the
44:45
ringing, the emergency Bell, and then seizing all this power.
44:48
And so, I was in kind of a shitty place to be honest.
44:51
And I started reading like crazy trying to make sense of the
44:54
world. And in that manic phase, I
44:58
essentially came across the fourth turning book.
45:00
I probably read 20 books in like three months that book
45:03
essentially was the most most true.
45:07
Or felt the most right or had the most expert explanatory
45:11
power for the world that we're living in.
45:13
And so I started studying history Cycles how does it all
45:16
fit in? And that sa is what came out of
45:18
that. I'm very proud of that one.
45:20
By the way, it's also long. The big thesis here is that
45:24
histories in Generations are symbiotic, right?
45:27
Bringing up that symbiosis word again.
45:29
So what do I mean by that? I mean you and I are both
45:32
Millennials were of this generation.
45:34
We're all born at roughly the same time in rough.
45:37
Be the same context. We all sort of respond the same
45:40
way to things in the world relative to other Generations
45:44
who may respond totally different than us, right?
45:46
And we all grow up as that well-defined generation and then
45:50
we become adults and then we start to push back on the road,
45:53
we influence the world. So that's Generations.
45:56
You and I creating history impacting the world and then
45:59
history changes because we imprinted it and then the next
46:02
Generation grows up in the context that we brought into the
46:05
world and then that Goes up and push this back on history.
46:08
So history Generation generation history, that sort of meant the
46:12
Bedrock at the whole thesis, then with the author's observed
46:16
and by the way, this is a book published in the late 90s, the
46:19
same year as a sovereign individual actually.
46:21
And what they found is that Society, at least in Western and
46:25
Western world looking at the history of America.
46:27
It revolves in these roughly 80 year cycles and at the end of
46:31
that cycle, which is where we are now the world wakes up.
46:34
And then we realize that our institutions are crumbling.
46:37
Being, you know, government institutions, like business, our
46:42
monetary system, Healthcare schools, whatever institution,
46:45
they're starting to crumble, and we realize that shit.
46:48
We actually need these institutions.
46:50
They perform a important role in complex society and we can't
46:54
trust them. They're broken.
46:55
It's almost as if 80 years prior ich on the heels of World War
47:00
Two, which is when we created the World Bank, the IMF Social
47:04
Security on Employment Insurance, NATO, Bretton Woods,
47:12
write all of these things that more or less to find our world
47:15
order. That all came in roughly, like,
47:17
at eight year period, at the end of the last cycle.
47:20
And then things are pretty good in the 50s 60s 70s.
47:23
They start to decline and now our old institutions are just
47:27
hollowed out their corrupt. They're crumbling essentially
47:31
culture events really fast institutions Advance really
47:34
slow. So there's a mismatch and We're
47:37
in that chaotic period where institutions suck but we need
47:40
them and it's almost as if humans have this.
47:45
Instinctual reaction to the world, not going well.
47:48
And the instinct is actually two collectivize.
47:51
And so that's why socialism, explodes during fourth turning
47:56
the same in the 30s, marginal tax rates were like 70% in the
48:00
30s. And we created all these
48:02
socialist programs, like FDIC, or unemployment insurance Etc.
48:07
These are responses to the world starting to crumble.
48:09
And so, what we're seeing young people do today, especially
48:12
Millennial, is there collectivizing, and Saying, we
48:15
gotta save the environment. We gotta screw the Boomers.
48:19
We got a literally calling each other comrades on ironically,
48:24
with no, no, shred of irony. And so, what we need to do with
48:29
regards to bitcoin is the instinct is collectivized.
48:33
If you go too far, collectivizing, we're going to
48:36
go into a panopticon's. He BDC dystopian.
48:39
Hell, and most Millennials will walk right into that.
48:42
Now, I'm optimistic simply Because we have Bitcoin, which
48:46
is a perfect, perfect counterforce you cvtc's, but
48:50
it's also a type of institution itself.
48:54
And what we need is to Rally around a big idea with a big
48:58
tent that a lot of people can get around.
48:59
That seems to be the answer to our problems, and I think it's
49:02
pretty clear that Bitcoin solves, maybe not everything,
49:06
but it's probably the strongest Force for good right now, in the
49:09
world. And I think people are starting
49:11
to realize that and juxtaposing normal people who are not
49:16
optimistic about the future borderline nihilism,
49:20
short-termism Fiat culture, whatever you want to call it.
49:23
Compared to bitcoiners long-term thinking, building families,
49:27
treating our bodies, right? Etc.
49:31
That's a huge contrast. And when people interact with
49:34
bitcoiners, they can't help, but notice it's a very, very
49:38
powerful feeling and that's why Bitcoin conferences are so full
49:41
and that's why Bitcoin meetups are so.
49:43
It's fulfilling this deep desire to be a part of something great.
49:47
And it just so happens to be really positive optimistic
49:49
supportive and has a genuine vision for the future, that
49:53
might be true. And so you add all that up and
49:57
typically at the end of fourth turning soars a hot War.
50:01
Okay, so we are steering towards ultimate conflict and that
50:04
conflict has to be big enough to Rally everyone together to make
50:08
a major change. Then the dust will settle and
50:11
then we'll rebuild with new institutions.
50:13
Devious. Fourth turning was World War Two
50:16
previous one. Before that, was the Civil War
50:19
before that Revolutionary War. And so the question is, are we
50:23
going into another hot War? I don't know the answer to that.
50:27
I think it's entirely possible tensions with China or some sort
50:33
of tensions that occur as we're starting to D globalize.
50:36
By the way, we've been D globalizing for over a decade.
50:39
And so that's going to cause a lot of issues, because the whole
50:42
Global Order, All the economies are built on this cheap
50:46
lowering, interest rates, globalist search for low, cost
50:51
of Labor to, then allow the developing countries to build
50:54
our stuff and then developed countries to import the stuff
50:58
and that systems are breaking and so there's going to be
51:01
winners and losers there and I think there's a good chance we
51:04
do end up in a hot War somewhere.
51:05
However that's not a guaranteed situation and I think Bitcoin is
51:10
a counter Force to potential Hot War and The reason is simple
51:14
Bitcoin acts as a shield against tyranny, at the individual
51:18
level. Let's say you grew up in
51:20
Venezuela. Your currency is collapsing.
51:22
The government, super corrupt acids being seized.
51:26
Well, what if you could store a little bit of your wealth and
51:28
Bitcoin or memorize 12 words, and cross the border into
51:31
Columbia and start a new life with your nest egg, right?
51:34
So that essentially at the individual level, it allows you
51:37
to save yourself and reduce the the pressures on yourself.
51:41
So individuals become less desperate.
51:43
Same same issue with countries, if El Salvador goes all in on
51:46
Bitcoin, in five years, from now, turns out, they're right,
51:51
they're going to look really good and that country might
51:53
LeapFrog its competitors because they saved themselves with this
51:57
tool. That's essentially in the new
51:59
paragraph Paradigm, right? The old ship sinking, get on the
52:02
life raft that idea and on net, I think that Bitcoin has Bitcoin
52:07
spreads enough. People are going to save
52:10
themselves set the the desire to go to war with It should be a
52:13
last result. All right, Last Resort I think
52:16
that incentive to go to war declines over time.
52:19
Enter the life raft. Everyone's invited the war
52:23
people who joined the life raft, the better it is and that
52:26
incentive for war, declines, every time.
52:28
And so I do this sort of as a race, it's a race to onboard
52:32
people to a new system for it gets so bad in the old system
52:36
that we resort to violence. Maybe it's inevitable that we
52:39
resort to violence, but at least we have Bitcoin to allow people
52:43
to save themselves. So in, it's interesting because
52:47
I said the same thing, I actually asked this question to
52:51
to Mark Moss, during the during the panel when I said that, you
52:55
know, we were talking about a monetary reset and one of the
52:59
tools that countries have used for these monetary Reserve.
53:02
Coincidentally is happening, during the fourth turning, is,
53:04
they use a kinetic War. But the question that I have for
53:07
you Brandon and it wasn't me. Who said this?
53:10
I got this off Twitter but Into. And I'm going to use the example
53:14
of 2003 in 2003, if social media was a thing, do you think that
53:19
the United States have would have gone to war with Iraq?
53:23
Because now, right, we're kind of living through this era,
53:26
where in the information is being disintermediated, they're
53:30
freaking out about Administration reacted with
53:33
Ministry of Truth. You see the fact Checkers, you
53:35
know, they're freaking out there losing this, this Monopoly on
53:39
the information, but at the same time, it's also So happening is
53:43
the disintermediation of money. They're also losing their
53:45
Monopoly on the issuance of money so is a kinetic and we all
53:49
know. Right?
53:50
That you know Ron Paul has that famous quote, right?
53:52
It's not a it's it's not a coincidence that the bloodiest
53:55
history. The bloodiest Century in human.
53:57
History is the century of Central Banking, right?
54:00
Is it possible to have a large-scale kinetic War?
54:05
If you have into millions upon individual Millions, upon
54:09
millions of individuals communicating directly with Each
54:12
other, right? Which is what social media and
54:14
the internet has enabled and is it possible for governments to
54:17
do this? Also, once they start to lose,
54:20
once they start to lose more and more and more of their control
54:24
on money, right? So is that a possibility?
54:27
Could this change things? Because I agree with you, you
54:30
know, if you look at the Revolutionary War, if you look
54:33
at, you know, the Civil War, if you look at World War 2, the
54:37
government, controlled the money, right?
54:39
It and and you and think about it, people.
54:42
Got their information from a handful of newspapers, a handful
54:46
of, you know, radio stations TV stations.
54:50
Now it's totally different. So that gives me a little bit of
54:54
Hope but maybe I'm naive Yeah, I think the line of question is
54:59
certainly valid and warranted. I think I'll share my opinion on
55:04
this. So first off when the state or
55:07
when anyone gets desperate that's a recipe for danger,
55:10
right? You don't want to fight someone
55:12
who has nothing to lose. You don't want to fight a dog,
55:14
foaming at the mouth. Backed into a corner right
55:17
there. Going to fight to the last
55:18
breath and I think what we're seeing with the state is a
55:21
little bit of flailing, right? I think they have the they're
55:24
aware that they're losing control of the Game losing
55:28
control the money, they're losing control of information.
55:30
That's one way to look at this. The other way to look at this is
55:33
that the internet is not acting as a tool for decentralised
55:37
information right now. During covid-19 happened was the
55:42
state loaded up the information propaganda machine and it got
55:46
people to do crazy shit and they believed it and if you didn't
55:50
follow along with the latest thing, you were socially, Asha
55:53
size, and they're very successful with that movement.
55:57
And so I think the internet right now is actually at a point
56:00
of increasing centralization and I think over time that that
56:05
pendulum starts to swing as we innovate, I think it's always an
56:08
arms race. The state wants to keep wraps on
56:12
Communications, the people want to keep it free, but it always
56:16
comes down to technology. It always comes down to
56:18
asymmetric technology. And I think what we need to do
56:22
on the information Warfare as we need to evolve past these web
56:25
platforms. For fact Checkers and the, you
56:29
know, D platforming any Doctor Who said something out of
56:32
consensus that was extremely effective, even though it was
56:36
super obvious. So the people paying attention
56:38
and we all chatter and we talked in our side groups, whatever en
56:41
masse, they own the narrative and that's fucking terrifying.
56:45
Sorry. For swearing.
56:47
So I think what we need to do is replace web 2 platforms with
56:50
protocols for information, right?
56:53
This is Jack's vision of Blue Sky.
56:56
I just said it relies back end with a unlimited amounts of
57:00
front end. That's the only way to do
57:01
information that I can see. So if we can a do that then I
57:05
think we can win back the information Warfare.
57:08
The next question, could we go to war now?
57:11
The answer is yes. We're at war with Ukraine.
57:14
We're sending them. Bajillions of dollars.
57:16
Ukraine, flags are everywhere and so I would say that people
57:19
are failing, this pathetic psyop, that's what I observe.
57:24
But long-term I am optimistic because I think we will Place
57:27
web to you. Now, the other question with
57:30
money, I think it's on the long term, if we take money out of
57:35
Central Banking hands, and give it back to the people in a
57:38
Promethean sense, I think that will allow humans to have less
57:43
Mass conflict because the leaders would have to ask nicely
57:48
to go to war because they can't abuse their money printer.
57:51
And if you said in 2003, hey I think the stat for Iraq war was
57:57
like Fifty to sixty thousand dollars per person, that's what
58:00
the government spent. If the US says, hey, do you want
58:04
to spend 50 Grand to send our children to a country?
58:07
You can't find out a map and kill a bunch of brown people and
58:11
you want to vote. Obviously, we're not going to
58:13
work. So they have to Stage weapons of
58:16
mass destruction, which we know is a lie, right?
58:18
They have to create context and narrative Warfare to convince us
58:22
that it's the right thing to do, but we didn't know how much it
58:25
was going to cost, and we would have never signed.
58:27
If we knew the accounting up front but on a Bitcoin standard,
58:31
if the money is out of their control, they would have to say
58:33
hey can we tax you a certain amount to go to war and as soon
58:38
as that right back to pain is a teacher that's paying on
58:41
people's pocketbooks and then you might do your account and
58:43
you might say yes or no, I'm not pollyannish.
58:47
I'm not against War. I think there are times when it
58:49
makes sense but allowing the state to cause Wars, anytime
58:53
they ding, the bell of emergency, that is madness and
58:56
Bitcoin fun. Mentally removes that the low
59:00
barrier of entry for governments to abuse their power.
59:03
And so short term, we're going to war Bitcoins, not ready.
59:06
Long term will take back information will take back money
59:10
but it might take a decade. Okay.
59:12
So Brandon last question and that was a great response and
59:16
perfect segue into this, right? If you take away the information
59:20
from the state, if you take away the money from the state, And,
59:24
you know, the sovereign individual made a very good case
59:26
for this, right? The state is forced to to to
59:31
look at the relationship, it has with individuals.
59:34
This kind of you know, your attacks cattle, you belong to
59:37
me, you dirty surf into kind of like you're my clients here,
59:42
come is a good place to do business.
59:44
You should, you should set up shop here?
59:46
Do you believe and of course, you know, you know how people
59:51
have this. The collectivist Utopia.
59:55
I also think Libertarians have a Libertarian Utopia, right?
1:00:00
Is it, is it a dream? Is it a pipe dream?
1:00:04
Do you actually believe that dude?
1:00:08
They are capable of the most atrocious.
1:00:10
In fact, they are responsible for some of the most atrocious
1:00:14
things I've that happened in the last century.
1:00:17
Will they allow this to happen or kind of tie this in what we
1:00:20
were talking about in the beginning with them?
1:00:22
I see Alien are they just don't have it, they don't.
1:00:24
They don't have it. They don't have the metaphorical
1:00:26
head to chop off here. Yeah, it's good question.
1:00:32
I don't think the state wants to give up control.
1:00:35
I think that's obvious, right? But I think over time
1:00:38
technology, essentially, overrides political desires.
1:00:44
And I think this is one thing that Satoshi or maybe it was
1:00:47
early cypherpunk, I can't remember.
1:00:48
But essentially, early Bitcoin ideology, which essentially says
1:00:52
that either, we try to play the political games and vote harder,
1:00:56
baby and then we'll get what we want or we create Ecology that
1:01:01
gains us an advantage against the state.
1:01:04
And I think Satoshi said this might not solve all the worlds
1:01:07
of paraphrasing. This might not solve all the
1:01:09
world's problems, but it will give us a temporary advantage in
1:01:12
the arms race against the state, right?
1:01:15
And I think that's the right way to look at this.
1:01:17
It's a never-ending arms race back and forth, State people,
1:01:21
State people centralized decentralized, right?
1:01:25
And I think this is just the latest battle in that.
1:01:28
I think a lot of Libertarians and especially We bitcoiners
1:01:31
would say that we're going to enter this period of
1:01:34
never-ending Prosperity because we won this battle taking money
1:01:38
out of the hands of the state. And I think that's an okay,
1:01:41
starting point here. I think we want to send that
1:01:44
message, that it's going to get better because of that.
1:01:46
But I think the idea that we do this once and it's over, is
1:01:50
totally naive. Matt Ridley, one of my favorite
1:01:54
authors, wrote a book called the Red Queen, which is looking at
1:01:58
biology in the same way. And essentially, the Is that
1:02:01
excuse me? As soon as a organism creates an
1:02:06
advantage in their environment, the ecosystem around it quickly
1:02:11
adapts and that Advantage is nullified.
1:02:13
So then you that individual has to create a new Advantage which
1:02:16
then gets quickly nullified. Right, it comes from the Red
1:02:19
Queen in Alice in Wonderland. You run so fast and you stay in
1:02:23
the same. You got to run really fast just
1:02:25
to stay in the same place, right?
1:02:27
And that's kind of like what's going on here with the the Arms
1:02:30
race against the state. We buy some time with Bitcoin
1:02:33
and hopefully by a lot of time and hopefully it's really hard
1:02:36
to stop. And I think it's one of the
1:02:38
hardest things to stop that we've ever come across.
1:02:40
And so I am very optimistic about the amount of time, it
1:02:44
buys us but I don't think forever is coming, so that means
1:02:47
we need more than Bitcoin and our future Generations, will
1:02:50
have different battles to fight and we need to preserve the
1:02:54
spark of freedom and individual thinking and preserve markets in
1:02:59
order to have a good chance. Fight.
1:03:01
Right? Because if we end up in this
1:03:02
panopticon social credit system like we're trying to setting it
1:03:08
makes this scent really hard, right?
1:03:11
And so thinking about the sovereign individual, I think
1:03:13
there's an important role here to play because we're entering
1:03:16
that encroaching centralization. The West sees China's power
1:03:20
through their CBC and they go oh we want that.
1:03:22
That'll be very helpful for us and so we're watching a CBC
1:03:27
pilot going out of the FED New York.
1:03:30
And this week or next week, something like that they just
1:03:33
announced it. So the walls are closing in and
1:03:36
if we look at the sovereign individual, they're essentially
1:03:39
saying that as technology allows individuals to free ourselves
1:03:44
from geography, meaning we can work remote, our money's online
1:03:48
or Communications online. We don't really have to be in
1:03:51
the u.s. right. The digital Nomad movement is
1:03:53
kind of an early example of what's come.
1:03:57
And if that's true bitcoiners potentially will be a This
1:04:00
Movement, we might call an Eis remote territory through a
1:04:04
nuclear reactor there, mine Bitcoin with the excess energy,
1:04:07
give cheap power. It sort of allows us to create
1:04:11
startup cities around energy assets that are aren't connected
1:04:14
to existing political structures.
1:04:17
And if that is true, we might go from, let's say, 200 countries
1:04:20
to 2000 countries and more countries that are smaller.
1:04:25
I think is good. That creates competition and
1:04:28
competition creates innovation And Matt Ridley again, my one of
1:04:33
my favorite authors in his most recent book on Innovation, he
1:04:36
essentially studies what makes a nation prosperous and what he
1:04:40
found was that Prosperity comes from Innovation and Innovation
1:04:45
comes from Freedom. So the most open and free
1:04:48
countries produce the most innovation in the most
1:04:51
Innovation produce most Prosperity what is bitcoin
1:04:54
Bitcoin is freedom money Bitcoin literally empowers the
1:04:58
individual at the expense of any wood Oppressor, so Bitcoin is a
1:05:02
precursor to Freedom, which is a precursor to Innovation, which
1:05:06
is a precursor to prosperity. And so, I view these startup
1:05:10
City, Sovereign, individuals, thesis citadel's, whatever you
1:05:14
want to call this as a crucial part of the next phase of our
1:05:18
species, which is preserving the spark of Freedom long enough to
1:05:22
get through this CBC panopticon experiment.
1:05:26
So that we have intelligent people, highly organized and And
1:05:30
able to innovate on the back end of this period.
1:05:34
Because, yeah, it's an arms race and I'm optimistic with Bitcoin
1:05:38
without Bitcoin. I would very much, not be
1:05:40
optimistic. So yeah, just a little
1:05:44
responsibility. Yep, and goes to, but at the end
1:05:49
of the day, right? Brandon, it's, this revolution
1:05:53
is peaceful Revolution is not possible without personal
1:05:56
responsibility and I, but I do believe that we do have a
1:06:00
Chance. We do have a good shot, we have
1:06:03
incentives on our side and all they have is coercion and we
1:06:07
have to innovate faster than they can regulate man.
1:06:10
And let's see, let's see where the cards fall.
1:06:12
Anyways Brandon, this was an absolute honor and a pleasure
1:06:15
man. Thank you so much.
1:06:16
Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you and any
1:06:19
projects or any things that you're working on nowadays?
1:06:22
Yeah, I appreciate that. Nico, this is a great interview.
1:06:26
Your last couple sentences were just point.
1:06:29
You can find me on Derby Q. UI T, tem.
1:06:34
Otherwise, all my writing is at Brandon quantum.com.
1:06:38
I run comps for Swan. If you want to get started
1:06:41
there, you guys know where to go.
1:06:43
Swan.com quidam, will give you 10 bucks free for create an
1:06:47
account. No purchase necessary.
1:06:50
And then mentioned earlier, but we're releasing some early bird
1:06:53
tickets to Pacific Bitcoin 2023, Pacific Bitcoin, 2023.com, get
1:06:58
your ticket. There they'll be sold out
1:06:59
probably by Friday. If not sooner, I think that's
1:07:03
it. If any of this resonated send me
1:07:05
a DM on Twitter ideas are open. Also be sure to thank you so
1:07:09
much for joining us and yes it simply Bitcoin will be back at
1:07:12
Pacific Bitcoin. Next year, I hope to see all of
1:07:14
you guys out there. Anyways brand I'm gonna put you
1:07:17
back stage for a second wrap this out guys.
1:07:19
We're going to be back with the Regular Show tomorrow at 12:15
1:07:23
p.m. Eastern Standard time.
1:07:25
We love you all. We will see you later.