Latest / Corie Sheppard Podcast / I Survived the Unthinkable—and Chose to Thrive | Gayatree Dipchan

Transcript

I Survived the Unthinkable—and Chose to Thrive | Gayatree Dipchan · Corie Sheppard Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: This episode contains discussions of rape, sexual violence, and sexual abuse, including accounts of traumatic and violent experiences.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
0:15
SPEAKER_07: I I am proud to say I am a deep south Indian who went to Fightbad Anglican Secondary School.
0:22
SPEAKER_07: And I loved my school.
0:24
SPEAKER_07: It was the best experience.
0:25
SPEAKER_07: So I'm putting that out there.
0:26
SPEAKER_07: One of the best schools anybody could go to.
0:28
SPEAKER_07: Coming back to Trinidad wasn't it wasn't on the on the card.
0:33
SPEAKER_07: You wanted to be a bird.
0:34
SPEAKER_07: I did not want to come back.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: So make it come home.
0:38
SPEAKER_07: Love, love.
0:39
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_03: Love again.
0:41
SPEAKER_03: So love.
0:42
SPEAKER_03: You fall in love with England.
0:43
SPEAKER_07: I fall in love.
0:44
SPEAKER_07: I fall in love with a training man.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: Alright, so the best guy.
0:47
SPEAKER_07: I have decided I am never wearing corporate clothes again.
0:51
SPEAKER_07: I am not wearing jacket.
0:53
SPEAKER_07: I mean, that's that's everybody.
0:55
SPEAKER_07: For me, I love my dresses.
0:57
SPEAKER_07: When when I was born, my grandfather made a gold spoon for me.
1:02
SPEAKER_07: Um so the first thing I ate was with this gold spoon.
1:05
SPEAKER_07: Oh nice because he believed that girls are divine blessings.
1:09
SPEAKER_07: I was sexually assaulted.
1:12
SPEAKER_07: It was very violent.
1:14
SPEAKER_07: Um so oh gosh.
1:17
SPEAKER_07: Um I'm not gonna cry about anything.
1:19
SPEAKER_07: I tell you, I don't cry anything.
1:20
SPEAKER_07: I have nine screws along here, all hair was broken, I had fractures here, um, my neck was bruised, the bones, everything was bruised.
1:33
SPEAKER_07: Um, I had fractures along my ribs.
1:36
SPEAKER_07: We celebrate carnival, we celebrate our culture so well.
1:40
SPEAKER_07: Why can't we shift our narrative and start talking about the harder topics, talking about what what a generation we're bringing up now?
1:51
SPEAKER_05: You are now applying us on the quarry, step on the quarry, step on the quarry, step on quarry, step up.
2:08
Corie: Hi, before we get started, we wanted to take a moment to ask you to support the channel for free by liking, sharing, and subscribing.
2:16
Corie: Those are the three things that we realize you're not doing as much as you all say you're enjoying the conversation.
2:21
Corie: So please, we appreciate your support.
2:22
Corie: Let's get into today's conversation.
2:24
Corie: Welcome to the Cory Shepard Podcast.
2:25
Corie: My name is Cory Shepard.
2:27
Corie: Thank you for everybody who's been tuning in.
2:28
Corie: Welcome back to everybody else who is now seeing us for the first time.
2:31
Corie: You can welcome people back when you're seeing it for the first time.
2:33
Corie: Welcome if you're seeing this for the first time.
2:35
Corie: I have us today, Guy Tri Depchan, who have to say is a friend of the show.
2:39
Corie: A friend, I thought I was too old to make friends.
2:41
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
2:41
Corie: You know, is I thought I'd say I passed that stage of life making friends, but a real friend of the show.
2:45
Corie: I intend to tell you how in a little bit.
2:47
Corie: But guys, uh behavioral psychotherapist, to me, a body language expert, because I I call her for all the issues that we're having with the show, and somebody who has been a real resource for us to lean on and has a very, very unique story that I hope you all stick around to hear.
3:02
Corie: Welcome to the show, Gaia.
3:04
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
3:04
SPEAKER_07: I'm so pleased to actually be here in this spot, and everything is working.
3:10
Corie: Yeah, you know, it's a pleasure to have you here.
3:12
Corie: It's a pleasure to have you here.
3:12
Corie: How have you been?
3:14
SPEAKER_07: I've been good.
3:14
SPEAKER_07: I've been traveling, you know.
3:16
SPEAKER_07: I like my travels, but I've also been living in my little village very happily by myself.
3:21
SPEAKER_07: So I have the good balance.
3:23
SPEAKER_07: I've created a balance for myself, so I'm very well.
3:25
Corie: What country is this little village in again?
3:26
Corie: And what's the name of the village?
3:27
Corie: Let's get this all to debate one time.
3:29
SPEAKER_07: My little village is Moy.
3:30
SPEAKER_07: It's a tiny village, it's um it's a little bit in Moy.
3:36
SPEAKER_07: In inner Norway, it's um it's got about 2,000 people in there, one coffee shop, um, two little supermarkets, and now an international market where I could get my shadow benny, cassava, plant, serious okra.
3:53
SPEAKER_07: I guess in everything now.
3:55
Corie: So I didn't run any store, but it's just people.
3:57
SPEAKER_07: It's a guy from I think he's a migrant there.
4:00
SPEAKER_07: So I think he's from one of the African countries.
4:04
SPEAKER_07: But um, what he brings in is things from Thailand, Africa, from different parts of the world.
4:08
SPEAKER_07: And if you look at it, we have such a massive integrative um way in which we share food and culture.
4:16
SPEAKER_07: So there they just bring everything in.
4:18
SPEAKER_07: It's one shop, get everything, just walk down the road.
4:21
SPEAKER_07: It's like old-time village life.
4:23
Corie: That's nice.
4:23
Corie: Yeah, 2000 people is small.
4:24
Corie: 2000 people are small.
4:25
Corie: I love it, I love it.
4:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think I I could disappear in there.
4:29
Corie: Yeah, yeah.
4:30
Corie: Well, when I when I sent my pictures of the place, I could see why.
4:33
Corie: Like it's scenic, it's like a very beautiful.
4:35
SPEAKER_07: It is, it is.
4:36
SPEAKER_07: It's um so Norwegians like to ski, one, but they also enjoy nature.
4:42
SPEAKER_07: So they have their resorts where you can go, but it's also very much if you live in the mountainous areas, they create spaces where people can just enjoy it.
4:52
SPEAKER_07: So I live between one um one ski resort and another one.
4:56
SPEAKER_07: It's very um it's very village-like, it's for the Norwegians, I would say.
5:01
SPEAKER_07: And it's mountains, it's lakes.
5:04
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I live close to two beautiful lakes, so I can just walk down to one and do a hike to the other one because it's in the mountain itself.
5:12
Corie: Gotcha, gotcha.
5:13
SPEAKER_07: So, yeah.
5:13
Corie: Sometimes you can place people vacation.
5:15
Corie: How come you choose to live like this?
5:17
Corie: It's a real small town, you know?
5:18
SPEAKER_07: Life have a way, life have a way.
5:21
SPEAKER_07: Um, you know, you and I have spoken about my journey many times, and it's gotten to a place where I needed to find a balance in calm, a balance in peace, um, where I could thrive in life.
5:37
SPEAKER_07: And for me, I'm an introvert.
5:40
SPEAKER_07: I am I could be very social, but I know that for myself I prefer my quiet time.
5:46
SPEAKER_07: That's why I think.
5:47
SPEAKER_07: Um, so I eventually bought a house.
5:51
SPEAKER_07: Um, and that's a space that I found.
5:54
SPEAKER_07: I visualized it for many years, and when the opportunity came, this house showed up in the market.
6:01
SPEAKER_07: It was there from January, I'm watching it, February, I'm watching it, March, I'm watching it.
6:05
SPEAKER_07: It was over budget.
6:07
SPEAKER_07: I told the universe this is what I wanted, this is what I needed.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:12
SPEAKER_07: And um, yeah, I think in the end of March, went and looked at it.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh nice.
6:18
SPEAKER_07: Walked in.
6:19
SPEAKER_07: I swear to God, it was the best experience of walking in, and you feel very, very calm.
6:24
SPEAKER_07: When you know, you know, huh?
6:25
Corie: Yeah, but real estate especially, right?
6:27
Corie: When you walk into a place you know, you know, you know.
6:29
SPEAKER_07: And the thing is, it it was so crowded because it was an older couple living there.
6:33
SPEAKER_07: So they had like pictures, imagine old-time houses, but a modern house with the old-time fixtures and everything.
6:38
SPEAKER_07: And um, when Amber saw it, Amber's my daughter, when she saw it, she was like, Mommy, I don't think I can live here.
6:44
SPEAKER_07: But the minute I walked in, I was just like at peace.
6:48
SPEAKER_07: And um, when they cleared it out, it's a modern house, cabin style.
6:53
SPEAKER_07: The views are into the mountains, it's access to two cities on train line and um European roads.
7:01
SPEAKER_07: Um, but I don't feel as though I'm anywhere close to a road or anywhere close to a train station because the view is literally the mountains.
7:07
Corie: Yeah, I hear lots of Trinidadians, and maybe I on that list saying, you know, my needle string berry here, I can't live nowhere else.
7:12
Corie: You know, as a St.
7:13
Corie: James boy, the food I go from St.
7:15
Corie: James is the less at peace I feel.
7:16
Corie: I started to get closer and closer to St.
7:18
Corie: James again.
7:19
Corie: But for you, it's the opposite I was saying in an interview saying you always wanted to live abroad.
7:23
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_07: I um I my dad was a good, a really good person in terms of supporting.
7:30
SPEAKER_07: We've always had, we we my siblings and myself, we always had that support system where whether they agree or disagree with the choices we wanted to make in terms of career or anything, once we made that choice, we had 100% support.
7:46
SPEAKER_07: And my dad passed last year, but his dream was for me to go into IT and human resource management.
7:52
SPEAKER_09: I see.
7:53
SPEAKER_07: And I know, I mean, uh no, I I started off with a business degree.
7:59
SPEAKER_09: Right.
8:00
SPEAKER_07: And I did well.
8:01
SPEAKER_07: Um and then the opportunity came to go to England when I was 20.
8:07
SPEAKER_07: And he he he said, he said, if you want to go, I'll support you.
8:10
SPEAKER_07: And I said yes.
8:12
SPEAKER_07: And um his intention, I want to say his intention and my intention, his intention was that I would go into a master's program, human resource management, some sort of business degree.
8:23
SPEAKER_07: And the good girl that I am, good South Indian girl.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: You can give it a shot.
8:28
SPEAKER_07: I give it a shot, lasted probably a month, dropped off.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: You didn't give it a shot.
8:33
SPEAKER_07: Well, a month is plenty if you're not very in the same way.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: I suppose yeah, it's like dignity, right?
8:38
SPEAKER_07: I used to fall asleep in classes, you know what it is to go to class, and you are so bored.
8:44
SPEAKER_07: And I was living, I was where I was living was with family, and I had to break the news to my dad.
8:52
SPEAKER_07: And back in the day it wasn't Wi-Fi.
8:55
SPEAKER_09: Right.
8:55
SPEAKER_07: You have to pick up the phone and call.
8:57
SPEAKER_07: And I pick up the phone and I say, Daddy, I can't do this.
9:00
SPEAKER_07: I dropped it out to the program.
9:02
Corie: Where was the program?
9:03
Corie: In England.
9:04
Corie: Okay, okay.
9:04
SPEAKER_07: So it was at Northampton University.
9:07
Corie: Right.
9:08
SPEAKER_07: And um I started the human resource management master's level, and I was drowsy, falling asleep in class.
9:16
SPEAKER_07: I was just like, this is not where my heart is.
9:19
SPEAKER_07: And um made the decision, build the courage to call him now and say, you know, I dropping out, time for a refund on that money.
9:27
SPEAKER_07: And pick up the phone, call him.
9:30
SPEAKER_07: You know, I was brave from far.
9:33
SPEAKER_07: And you know, I I thought I was very courageous, and he answered the phone and shouting.
9:42
SPEAKER_07: I did this thing.
9:44
SPEAKER_07: Static down.
9:46
SPEAKER_07: I was like, I didn't take it, and then for a few days.
9:49
Corie: So he didn't take it good at all.
9:50
SPEAKER_07: He didn't take a gun, he didn't take a gun.
9:52
SPEAKER_07: But um, I am a productive person.
9:55
SPEAKER_09: Really?
9:55
SPEAKER_07: So I moved to London when I was 21.
9:58
SPEAKER_07: Oh wow.
9:59
SPEAKER_07: 21.
10:00
SPEAKER_07: End of 21.
10:00
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, 21 going to 22.
10:02
SPEAKER_07: I moved to London and um I went, I decided I want to do psychology, but it was like it was something that you know when I I started volunteering much earlier.
10:16
SPEAKER_07: So like I would volunteer while I was in Milton Keys, I lived in Milton Keats, I would volunteer into spaces.
10:22
SPEAKER_07: And the element of understanding or even watching human experiences, I think that's where the the love of observing and learning from people as opposed to institutions really played a big part.
10:36
SPEAKER_07: And psychology was where I think I would have gotten the academic base to do what I want to do.
10:44
SPEAKER_07: And um, so the the good news is when I told them I wanted to do psychology and go into the program and everything like that, because they have a uh bridging program, then you could go on to do your master's.
10:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
10:56
SPEAKER_07: So um he was happy.
10:58
SPEAKER_07: Oh, you was he was happy, he didn't like psychology, so even up to last year when he passed, there was a massive disappointment.
11:05
SPEAKER_07: You know, you could have done so much with your life.
11:07
SPEAKER_07: Tell you that you yes, every year up until last year, until he had a census.
11:13
SPEAKER_07: Oh my word, you could have done so much with your life.
11:16
SPEAKER_07: Apparently, I didn't do enough.
11:20
SPEAKER_07: But God bless him.
11:21
SPEAKER_07: He has been, he was one of the biggest support, biggest cheerleaders when it came to like um fulfilling education responsibilities and making sure that we always had like um that cushion to fall back on.
11:35
Corie: If you're a business organization or brand looking to reach an engaged and growing audience, the Cory Shepherd Podcast offers opportunities to sponsor, partner, and advertise.
11:45
Corie: You could check out the email address in our YouTube description or via the link in our bio on Instagram.
11:51
Corie: We need the money like uh Max and House, you remember so I'd tell people who listen and watch this without making it our podcast about podcasting.
12:01
Corie: Talking to Gaia is so interesting.
12:03
Corie: Like you were one of the first people who started to say, Hey, you have a skill in talking to people, you get people to open up in a way that you don't see them.
12:10
Corie: And I mean, I don't know that I see it, to be honest.
12:13
Corie: I I don't know what it is, let me put it like that.
12:15
Corie: And it was a little tricky for me because okay, if I don't know what I'm doing, then how are you gonna repeat it?
12:20
Corie: I I don't know if I could do it again.
12:21
Corie: So I'm worried every time I show up because now it creates this expectation that people are gonna come and talk.
12:26
Corie: And I remember you reaching out and starting to talk to me about body language.
12:29
Corie: That was the first conversation I remember, and you were telling me how positive my body language is.
12:34
Corie: Yes, and I didn't understand.
12:36
Corie: Yeah, and um, one of the things that I remember like distinctly is that there were episodes where I wouldn't see what was happening in your room, but I would see it when we edited.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:47
Corie: One second.
12:48
Corie: I would see people getting emotional, but here I don't see it at all.
12:52
Corie: I so frightened, I'm nervous, I talking to people I see on TV.
12:55
Corie: It's like, ah, but then when I edited, I was like, wait, this person was emotional.
12:58
Corie: Mohammed Muakil was an example of that.
13:00
Corie: From the time he started talking about his father, I remember that.
13:02
Corie: He started getting emotional.
13:04
Corie: I did not see that at all in the room.
13:06
Corie: I remember seeing them break down.
13:07
Corie: I was like, what happened right now?
13:09
Corie: You know, you know, and uh, but I'm so lost in the story.
13:12
Corie: Yeah, and I go to those places.
13:13
Corie: So I started calling you all the time now.
13:16
Corie: I was like, guys, what do you hear?
13:17
Corie: What we do, and then started to see it in the in the guests that are on the show too.
13:20
Corie: But why why would body language be such an important thing that you you pointed it out, the training on it in England and so on?
13:27
Corie: What is it about body language that we pay attention to?
13:29
SPEAKER_07: Body language is a way of communication that we don't always, I think, acknowledge.
13:35
SPEAKER_07: A lot of times we we just hear the words, and we grow up in a society where we hear words and we we interpret based on words.
13:43
SPEAKER_07: But words is only 7% of communication.
13:46
Corie: Seven.
13:47
SPEAKER_07: Only seven percent.
13:48
SPEAKER_07: The rest of it is the tone, how we speak, um, how we enunciate words, how we are able to show emotions through the way we are expressing words.
13:59
SPEAKER_07: Because you don't have to say I am sad, but your tone itself could actually share sadness.
14:06
SPEAKER_07: Um and then we have body language, you doing that, you know, it shows that you are engaged with what I'm saying.
14:12
SPEAKER_07: And body language is in itself, I think is around 58% of communication.
14:19
SPEAKER_07: Um but open body language, how we sit, how we engage, how if if you lean forward, sometimes you literally go into the space.
14:29
SPEAKER_07: Um, and that's what I was noticing.
14:32
SPEAKER_07: Um we forget that people share more information based on facial expressions, based on how their shoulders are, based on how they sit, how their legs are crossed, if they're crossed towards you, if they're crossed away from you, if your body's like that as opposed to facing like that.
14:49
SPEAKER_07: Where comfort lies.
14:50
SPEAKER_07: If if you're speaking to someone and like I did a workshop last week, and we went back to work that we did three years ago, where we're talking about the first time you meet someone, it's important to recognize what they are sharing with you in that moment.
15:07
SPEAKER_07: Create that comfort level so that you can see where they're at, where their consistent lies.
15:13
SPEAKER_07: And that's called baselining.
15:15
SPEAKER_07: And if you understand their baseline, when they when they step into harder conversations, you can see the shifts in body language.
15:22
SPEAKER_07: Because they may not be able to express by words, they may not be able to express by tone, but their body language shifts automatically.
15:31
SPEAKER_07: Someone who's showing discomfort will automatically start protecting vulnerable areas in their bodies.
15:36
SPEAKER_07: And you would understand their vulnerable their vulnerable areas when you baseline them, when you initiate.
15:42
Corie: Is it unconscious, like things like that?
15:44
Corie: Like for instance, if you tell me something and I feel like you say vulnerable about it and I cover up.
15:49
SPEAKER_07: Yes, that I think becomes that that is so for me, as if you're asking me a question and um and I find that it's uncomfortable for me, I would automatically start shifting, or I would shift my body language to protect parts of my body.
16:05
SPEAKER_07: Right?
16:06
SPEAKER_07: Because we want to protect our body naturally.
16:08
SPEAKER_07: Um, that is an indicator for you as the host or someone who's asking me questions.
16:13
SPEAKER_07: Okay, this is creating something.
16:14
SPEAKER_07: Do I shift or do I ask questions very differently?
16:18
SPEAKER_07: Right?
16:18
SPEAKER_07: So everything, I I always tell people, every bit of body language informs what you do next.
16:25
SPEAKER_07: And remember, as I said, how people say things as well.
16:30
SPEAKER_07: Because we just listen to words.
16:31
SPEAKER_07: A lot of times we're hearing words, but we're not listening to what is actually being said.
16:36
SPEAKER_07: I can tell you very I can tell you, I'm doing really okay today.
16:39
SPEAKER_07: And I could be like, I doing really okay today, you know.
16:42
Corie: Yeah, it says something more.
16:43
SPEAKER_07: It says something more.
16:44
SPEAKER_07: So it's how the intonation, I I don't know if I'm using the right the right language, but the way we are sing song people.
16:50
SPEAKER_07: Of course, but it's easy to understand how the music in our voices shifts when happiness comes.
16:59
Corie: Oh, a sad song.
17:00
Corie: Interesting.
17:01
Corie: And I guess in talking to you now, I'm invested in it, right?
17:05
Corie: So I read in books, like I I've noticed, and it's something I would not pay attention to at all.
17:09
Corie: Yeah.
17:10
Corie: But when I looked up books on body language, and like a lot of it goes to people like investigators, uh, interviewers, yeah, therapists, and so on.
17:17
Corie: So in therapy, because now you make me go back over every therapy session in my mind.
17:22
SPEAKER_07: Cheese and ages.
17:23
Corie: Every single one, because I only do virtual therapy, right?
17:26
Corie: And I I'm wondering if the therapist on the next end of the phone in that case would be because in my mind they're just paying attention to what I say.
17:35
Corie: But they would be paying attention to is it you're trained to look at everything that somebody is is offering you in terms of communication?
17:40
SPEAKER_07: I have.
17:41
SPEAKER_07: I I I can't vouch for all therapists, and I could get rel blues for that, but I'm very particular.
17:48
SPEAKER_07: Even when I do referrals, I'm very particular about the therapist that I I have in my my um back pocket for referrals.
17:55
SPEAKER_07: But I believe that it's important that when you you're with a therap a therapist that that therapist understands all the nuances of what you're seeing.
18:06
SPEAKER_07: Because it's their it's it's it's their role to support you in your journey.
18:12
SPEAKER_07: It's not to tell you what to do or how to do it.
18:14
Corie: I wish it was if anyone should tell people what to do.
18:16
SPEAKER_07: I I fix me.
18:18
SPEAKER_07: I have a therapist too, and I wish she could tell me.
18:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:22
SPEAKER_07: I wish she could tell me, you know, do this, this, this, this, this.
18:24
SPEAKER_07: But the reality is, the reality is, and I tell you, I'm a very spiritual, energetic person.
18:29
SPEAKER_07: I do believe that everything happens the way it's supposed to happen, and we have certain people in our lives that guide us through it and support us through it.
18:37
SPEAKER_07: And some of some of them become our greatest cheerleaders when we have these successes, and they become our greatest supporters when we need that lift.
18:45
SPEAKER_07: Um, and I think therapists should be something like that.
18:49
SPEAKER_07: Um, being engaged in therapy, we celebrate.
18:51
SPEAKER_07: I celebrate all my clients.
18:54
SPEAKER_07: Um, I think I told you before, my biggest heroes are the ones that I had in Trinidad.
19:00
SPEAKER_07: I don't know if I ever told you that.
19:02
SPEAKER_07: My clients in Trinidad.
19:03
SPEAKER_07: I uh when I was at rape crisis, when I was at um I was there for a while.
19:08
SPEAKER_07: And I know we're gonna talk about my experiences, but the these people, these women and children who went through some of the toughest experiences of abuse, um, sexual violence, domestic violence.
19:25
SPEAKER_07: And ask me their names, I don't know their names, but I remember their faces and I remember their stories.
19:30
SPEAKER_07: And I did an interview once, and someone asked me who's my hero?
19:34
SPEAKER_07: You know, who do I look up to?
19:36
SPEAKER_07: And it's it's those people because their journey informs the way I can practice and the way I can help.
19:43
SPEAKER_07: You learn from them, you know, because they teach you things, they teach you resilience, they teach you moving through resilience, they don't teach you resilience is a point that someone says, Oh, you're resilient.
19:55
SPEAKER_07: The reality is I can see that they're resilient because they're still on the journey of trying to figure out how to survive in their situations.
20:03
SPEAKER_07: So I think I've said to you before, they are my biggest heroes.
20:06
SPEAKER_07: We have so many names in this world that people celebrate.
20:09
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
20:09
SPEAKER_07: But those are the ones.
20:10
Corie: Yeah, and that's why it's important for me to have you here because to hear your story, even when you talk about working in Europe crisis center, that statement sounds surreal to me.
20:19
Corie: But given that I know what you've been through, and maybe maybe it's a good time to talk about it because I just placing myself in your mind or just you know, pretending to be your family, I feel like that be having gone through any experience like that, I would run further away from it.
20:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
20:34
Corie: And you you run headfirst into it.
20:37
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
20:43
SPEAKER_07: It was, it was.
20:44
SPEAKER_07: I think that um it was, you know, I was in private practice, and I came back from England when I was 28, going into 29.
20:56
SPEAKER_07: So I spent a solid eight years in a space where I think I became the best version of myself.
21:04
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
21:04
SPEAKER_07: Um and as much as I I I had a busy life, and I want to say a busy, but a productive life.
21:13
SPEAKER_07: And I had the support of my parents at that time.
21:18
SPEAKER_07: Like it was unwavering.
21:20
SPEAKER_07: You know, you could I could call them and say, you know, I need something, and it was never it was never a hesit a hesitation at all.
21:28
SPEAKER_07: You know, and they celebrated my my my successes and they were very present for the tough times as well.
21:35
SPEAKER_07: But coming back to Trinidad wasn't it wasn't on the on the the card.
21:40
SPEAKER_07: You wanted to be a big I did not want to come back.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: So make it come home eventually.
21:44
SPEAKER_07: Love, love, love, love.
21:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: Love again.
21:50
SPEAKER_07: Only here that story ready.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: So love, you fall you fall in love in England.
21:56
SPEAKER_07: I fall in love, I'm falling in love with a training man.
22:01
SPEAKER_07: I fall in love with a training man and um he wanted to come back and I made the choice to come back.
22:10
SPEAKER_07: I did not want to come back.
22:12
SPEAKER_07: Um, and when I came back within a few months, I got I got into a really good practice up Port of Spain side.
22:18
SPEAKER_07: Um back then they were based on Mali Street, now they're in Woodbrook.
22:22
Corie: So you came back still able to practice your therapy?
22:24
Corie: Yeah.
22:25
Corie: Okay, good.
22:25
SPEAKER_07: At that point in time, I had how much years under my belt?
22:29
SPEAKER_07: What like five years?
22:30
Corie: Okay, good.
22:31
Corie: So this time degrees done, you're practicing over there.
22:33
Corie: Yeah.
22:33
Corie: Okay.
22:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so and all the experience because I did so much voluntary work, I was working through everything.
22:40
SPEAKER_07: So my CV looked as though it was like it was packed with different experiences.
22:46
SPEAKER_07: So I didn't just like have the degree and no experience.
22:50
SPEAKER_07: I started volunteering when I was at 21.
22:52
SPEAKER_07: So at that point in time, I had seven years of volunteering, clinical practice, as well as the academics to balance everything off.
23:02
SPEAKER_07: Okay, got it.
23:02
SPEAKER_07: So by the time I got to Trinidad, um, I got a job, a really good, nice in in private practice.
23:09
Corie: So he was living here, or did you have to come back home?
23:11
SPEAKER_07: He had he he's a bright boy.
23:14
SPEAKER_07: You know, one of them naps bright boys, yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_07: I'm proud to say I am a deep south Indian who went to Feiterbad Anglican Secondary School.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Salute to Fizerbad.
23:31
SPEAKER_07: One of the best schools anybody could go to.
23:34
SPEAKER_07: And my principals, Mr.
23:35
SPEAKER_07: Zeffrin, I'm pointing that out one of the best principles you're gonna find in Trinidad.
23:40
SPEAKER_07: Um but um he went to Naps and he was a scholarship winner.
23:46
SPEAKER_07: So he got scholarship and scholarship, and he ended up in Imperial College, and that's how we met.
23:52
SPEAKER_07: We were both in England.
23:53
Corie: So we met over there and had to come home.
23:54
SPEAKER_07: Because he wanted to come home.
23:56
SPEAKER_07: Oh nice.
23:56
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he wanted to come home.
23:57
SPEAKER_07: Okay, good.
23:58
SPEAKER_07: Um and we came back and got married, but before we got married, um I was in practice, I had started my practice and I was assaulted.
24:11
SPEAKER_07: And that shifted a lot of like I think that was, you know, we talk about different parts in our lives where you have um where trajectories change.
24:23
SPEAKER_07: So even though you have like a really nice set plan, God watches it and laughs and says, Yeah, I'm going to just like mix it up and make sure that you know the spin around and it gets and it like grill dizzy.
24:39
SPEAKER_07: So everything was going really well and um and just one day, one day, something bad had to happen.
24:48
Corie: What was it?
24:49
Corie: What was it was the experience?
24:52
SPEAKER_07: So I was um I was sexually assaulted.
24:57
SPEAKER_07: It was very violent.
24:59
SPEAKER_07: Um so oh gosh.
25:02
SPEAKER_07: Um I'm not gonna cry or anything.
25:03
SPEAKER_07: I tell you, I don't cry as well.
25:04
Corie: Yeah, I try my best too.
25:05
Corie: Yeah, I tell you.
25:06
SPEAKER_07: It's years now, so you know, I'm in a different space.
25:10
SPEAKER_07: But I was going to work, and um I must always follow your instincts.
25:16
SPEAKER_07: I want to start by saying that we must always, if your instincts say don't do something, and it's very strong, don't do it.
25:23
SPEAKER_07: And that morning I woke up feeling as though my feet was planted in the ground, like not being able to move, feeling it wasn't, it wasn't laziness, it wasn't lethargic.
25:32
SPEAKER_07: I remember waking up and like feeling as though the ground was holding on to me.
25:37
SPEAKER_07: So moving became very hard.
25:39
SPEAKER_07: And I was driving, my sister and I were going into work together, she was working in town as well.
25:45
SPEAKER_07: And um, I sat to her, I said, take the corner.
25:48
SPEAKER_07: And she was like, No, you've parked the car by you because it means that you could come and drive.
25:51
SPEAKER_07: She doesn't like to drive.
25:52
SPEAKER_09: Sure.
25:53
SPEAKER_07: So um I was like, no, no, no, take the car.
25:56
SPEAKER_07: And she was like, nah, you um, you you take the car.
25:59
SPEAKER_07: So I dropped her into work.
26:01
SPEAKER_07: She was working um St.
26:02
SPEAKER_07: Vincent Street or one of those streets.
26:04
SPEAKER_09: Friends.
26:05
SPEAKER_07: And went around the savannah.
26:07
SPEAKER_07: So the way in practice at that point in time, I was seeing six or seven clients a day.
26:12
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
26:12
SPEAKER_07: And in the morning I would go in early and do the reports because you have to make your notes and stuff like that.
26:17
SPEAKER_07: And I would go in, excuse me, I'd go in very early and do my reports.
26:21
SPEAKER_07: And I parked the car and Marley Street, you have the embassy, and then it have a rituals at the bottom of H Street.
26:30
SPEAKER_07: And the the practice was obliquely opposite to the rituals on Marley Street itself.
26:35
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
26:36
SPEAKER_07: And I saw this man as I'm driving down, and I stayed in the car.
26:44
SPEAKER_07: Because it was half six in the morning.
26:45
SPEAKER_07: I stayed in the car, and I see him pass, and he's not watching me, anything like that.
26:51
SPEAKER_07: I just see him pass.
26:52
SPEAKER_07: I see him turn the corner towards Statil.
26:55
SPEAKER_07: Right?
26:56
SPEAKER_07: And then I came out of the car, unlocked the gate, put the lock back in, not locking it, just pull it back in.
27:02
SPEAKER_07: Because my friend, she was going to be there in 15 minutes.
27:05
SPEAKER_07: I had called her to say that.
27:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
27:08
SPEAKER_07: She usually gets there by seven.
27:09
SPEAKER_07: I would normally get there by half six quarter to seven.
27:13
SPEAKER_07: And um, so just you know, hooked the lock and opened the door, went inside, turned on the lights, then a knock came on the door, and I'm thinking it is her.
27:22
SPEAKER_07: And they had the peepholes at that time.
27:24
SPEAKER_07: So I peeped through and she has she at that time she had the short um like a boy cut kind of thing.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:32
SPEAKER_07: And um she's Afro-Jamaican.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: I see.
27:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so she had that shortcut.
27:37
SPEAKER_07: So I'm only seeing the back of the head, so I'm thinking it's her.
27:41
SPEAKER_07: So I I touched the um the knob, and as soon as I touch it, like this entire energy system pull my hand back, but I had already turned it.
27:53
SPEAKER_07: And the force I let it go and started to push against the door, not knowing why.
27:59
SPEAKER_07: I started to push, and as I am pushing, the other person put their feet through the door and um push back.
28:08
SPEAKER_07: Now, this person was, you see my height.
28:13
SPEAKER_07: I I barely hit a five-four.
28:16
SPEAKER_07: Let's call it five four, five, three, and five, three and three-quarters.
28:20
SPEAKER_07: I barely hit another four.
28:21
SPEAKER_07: But this person was six something.
28:24
SPEAKER_07: And um he came in and he was like, the boss man tell me that how we have some work to do.
28:31
SPEAKER_07: And I cautious, uh, I real cautious.
28:33
SPEAKER_07: By this time he's inside, he's inside because he pushed the door and he pushed and he closed the door.
28:38
SPEAKER_07: But I stepped back and um I keep in the distance, like how you and I are right now.
28:42
SPEAKER_07: So I keep in that distance.
28:44
SPEAKER_07: And I try to corner myself now to go to the door, but he's pushing back.
28:49
SPEAKER_07: But so I'm walking around and he's just pushed cornering.
28:53
SPEAKER_07: Sorry, he's just cornering me.
28:55
SPEAKER_07: And uh at um one stage now, I can't even remember like the flow of it, but I do remember that he lunged and held me by my neck and put me into a room.
29:10
SPEAKER_07: So there were two front rooms, and he lunged and held me by my neck and squeezing and carried me into one of the rooms.
29:20
SPEAKER_07: And um I knew that so I had this whole conversation in my head, huh?
29:27
SPEAKER_07: I remember the conversation because I I I I I went into a space of this is happening.
29:35
SPEAKER_07: I have to trust in something bigger than myself.
29:38
SPEAKER_07: There's nothing I could do at that point because this man is big.
29:41
SPEAKER_07: And I have no recollection of fighting, but my body showed bruising, which showed that I I put up a fight.
29:47
SPEAKER_07: Um when I was put into the room, I was punched about my face.
29:52
SPEAKER_07: I remember the first punch.
29:55
SPEAKER_07: Um, I have no feeling of the second punch or the third or the fourth or how many came after.
30:00
SPEAKER_07: Um I've said to you many times, I I am a very spiritual person, and when I I grew up in a very traditional Hindu home.
30:13
SPEAKER_07: And in when I was 16, I had a a very it's it's almost like an epiphany of a relationship that I have with um Shiva.
30:26
SPEAKER_09: Love Shiva.
30:27
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
30:27
SPEAKER_07: And it was it was like it wasn't fatherly, it wasn't brotherly, it was just this immense power that you know surrounds me and protects me.
30:39
SPEAKER_07: And I knew the mantras, I knew so that became a normal chant.
30:43
SPEAKER_07: I would be driving and it would it'd still be a chant.
30:46
SPEAKER_07: Even today, driving, it would still be something that's automatic play in my head.
30:50
SPEAKER_07: So I'm not consciously doing it.
30:53
SPEAKER_07: And um and in that moment when I felt the flu sponge, I was like, well, if I have to die, Lord Shiva, this is just make sure you're here so I don't feel anything.
31:03
SPEAKER_07: And um, so I was choked.
31:05
SPEAKER_07: I lost consciousness.
31:08
SPEAKER_07: Um when I when I gained consciousness, um my I had on I had on a very thick pants because it was a UK pants, it had it had lining and everything like that.
31:21
SPEAKER_07: That was literally torn open, my underwear was torn open.
31:24
SPEAKER_07: Um I felt no pain during how much beating I got.
31:30
SPEAKER_07: Um but at the when the first punch hit, this tall man is in front of me here, and behind me I am seeing this massive load shiver, and I got lost.
31:43
SPEAKER_07: So in the very conscious world, I would say I lost people would say I lost consciousness.
31:49
SPEAKER_07: But in my world, what I saw, I saw this massive blood chiever, a very big man behind this man watching me.
31:58
SPEAKER_07: And I am in this, I would describe it like a vortex, and I am seeing myself, I'm seeing everything that's happening.
32:07
SPEAKER_07: I am seeing almost externally.
32:09
SPEAKER_07: It's very external, and I'm asking myself, I'm seeing, but I'm so happy and I'm so peaceful here.
32:15
SPEAKER_07: Why would I want to go back there?
32:18
SPEAKER_07: It was really like I'm questioning why I would want to experience that when in this vortex I'm watching everything and I'm so peaceful.
32:25
SPEAKER_07: Like it's a it's not peace, it's like a level of intense bliss I was experiencing that I could feel no physical pain.
32:36
SPEAKER_07: And when I actually gained consciousness, I was on the ground again.
32:42
SPEAKER_07: I was on the ground and um the man was on top of me, and I felt this hand, a very, very gentle hand, just turn my head that way, and the shiva was there again and stayed with me.
32:57
SPEAKER_07: And what I lost consciousness again.
33:00
SPEAKER_07: When I got back consciousness, um he was no longer there, but fear came.
33:05
SPEAKER_07: That's the first time real fear.
33:07
SPEAKER_07: The man was no longer there.
33:08
SPEAKER_07: He was no longer there.
33:09
SPEAKER_07: That was the first time real fear came, and because I had now I had to figure out how to get help.
33:15
SPEAKER_07: And I screamed, I remember screaming so loud, like that level of fear, it was a guttural.
33:21
SPEAKER_07: It was like it it came from somewhere deep within.
33:25
SPEAKER_07: I just screamed and screamed and screamed and screamed.
33:27
SPEAKER_07: And I remember afterwards the police said that um the neighbors heard me screaming, but they couldn't figure out where the screaming was coming from.
33:34
SPEAKER_07: Um but it was very, very it was like it was animalistic.
33:39
SPEAKER_07: Um I got myself to the door and it's really weird.
33:42
SPEAKER_07: As I got myself to the door, my friend had come in.
33:45
Corie: The one you were expecting.
33:46
SPEAKER_07: The one I was expecting.
33:48
SPEAKER_07: And she went into I mean, I was telling her she's the love of my life.
33:55
SPEAKER_07: I it it could have a man in my life, but she's the love of my life.
33:59
SPEAKER_07: She came in and um I didn't have like my clothes were it was it was like in tatters, you know, the top, everything was in it, everything was like, I can't remember if I had on the pants still, right?
34:12
SPEAKER_07: And she um uh then fiance, he had driven off, he was already driving off, and she screamed so loud when she saw me that he stopped and came back.
34:25
SPEAKER_07: And she had towels in the van, she wrapped me up.
34:29
SPEAKER_07: And um I had called my ex-husband.
34:32
SPEAKER_07: I don't know, I can't, I can't, I don't know how I called him, but I called him somewhere between getting out of the room and opening that door for her.
34:39
SPEAKER_07: I had dialed quickly.
34:41
SPEAKER_07: And um he had he was working around his own, so he came.
34:46
SPEAKER_07: So between the two men, they got me into a vehicle and took me to Sinclair.
34:54
SPEAKER_07: And um the first thing they the the God bless the emergency services, it was like, where this accident happened?
35:01
Corie: Because how brutal it was.
35:03
SPEAKER_07: How brutal there was my face was so I have um I have nine screws along here, all hair was broken, I had fractures here, um, my neck was bruised, the bones, everything was bruised.
35:20
SPEAKER_07: Um I had fractures along my ribs.
35:23
SPEAKER_07: Um I had bruising in my private areas.
35:30
SPEAKER_07: Um and I had surgery a year after to make sure that because I one of my eyes literally dropped.
35:38
SPEAKER_07: Reconstructive yeah, I had reconstructive surgery.
35:40
SPEAKER_07: Um God bless Dr.
35:42
SPEAKER_07: Daniel because he he his hands was gentle and his his soul.
35:48
SPEAKER_07: His soul is one of the most um I don't know, it I remember him coming in and you know when you need to smile?
35:58
SPEAKER_07: And everybody was so sad and you know, I I am sad, but I felt as though at that point in time I needed someone to make me smile.
36:07
SPEAKER_07: Of course.
36:08
SPEAKER_07: And he came in and he was like, I was like, his voice was very soft.
36:12
SPEAKER_07: And I remember saying, Oh, I need to see your face.
36:14
SPEAKER_07: He was like, No, you don't need to see my face.
36:15
SPEAKER_07: I said, Yes, I need to see your face.
36:17
SPEAKER_07: Because all hair was so swollen, I couldn't see anything.
36:21
SPEAKER_07: I couldn't see anything at all.
36:23
SPEAKER_07: And he said, But you can't turn your head because they had my neck in a brace and everything.
36:27
SPEAKER_07: So he came around for me to see his face, and I always say he's the best-looking man I know.
36:33
SPEAKER_07: Best of him.
36:37
Corie: You know, listen, I appreciate you sharing that and sharing it like that as well.
36:40
Corie: And I think for me, it's one of the reasons why uh and and let me let me break the fourth wall a little bit.
36:46
Corie: These people will be uncomfortable here, but I should say that we recorded this before.
36:50
Corie: Yes, we did, and this is the only episode since we ever started this five years ago that we've ever lost.
36:55
Corie: I don't know where it went.
36:56
Corie: The episode just disappeared.
36:58
Corie: And I tell myself, all right, well, Corey hear the story before, it's gonna be easier to hear the second time.
37:04
Corie: And I'll tell you that it's not, it is it is very, very difficult to hear that.
37:08
Corie: And I feel like it's an important part of for me why I was excited about this conversation the first and second, and maybe even third time, because we try to do it at a time in between this two, right?
37:19
Corie: Yeah, but I feel like if we have an opportunity here to tell the stories of our country, and we get people to come here and tell all the great stories and all the different ups and downs, but I feel like this is a part of the story of our country that people don't say often.
37:32
Corie: So I appreciate you talking about it like that.
37:34
SPEAKER_07: I think this is a big reality.
37:36
SPEAKER_07: Um I know you and I have spoken about this, and I didn't go into the story a second or third time.
37:43
SPEAKER_07: This is the second time you're really hearing the in-depth of it again.
37:46
SPEAKER_07: Um, but you know, when I say to you that the heroes of my life are those that were able to tell their stories to me.
37:58
SPEAKER_07: I could not have sat in that room with them if I didn't understand their process of healing.
38:05
SPEAKER_07: Um, and some of them I know they still live, they're still in that journey of surviving in their spaces.
38:13
SPEAKER_07: Um I think that as a society we love to celebrate all the good things in Trinidad, and I admire that about our society.
38:27
SPEAKER_07: You know, but there are things that we choose not to see and to acknowledge, and I think that's generations of um hiding and changing the narrative, and it's become quite common.
38:44
SPEAKER_07: I do work with um the Nina Foundation in Trinidad, and they do fantastic work.
38:51
SPEAKER_07: And a couple of years ago we did a study.
38:56
SPEAKER_07: We were funded to do a study, and um we were talking about the idea was that we we thought we were going in there with the hypothet with a hypothesis that in our society we have communities and villages where women support the younger generation of women.
39:15
SPEAKER_07: And are not it in women, but the study itself, we did, I think it was five or six Caribbean islands, a hundred young girls under the age of 18.
39:26
SPEAKER_07: And different small communities, large communities.
39:31
SPEAKER_07: In Trinidad, I think we did about four communities alone.
39:35
SPEAKER_07: And not one of those girls was able to tell a story of women in their communities supporting them.
39:41
SPEAKER_07: Instead, they spoke about judgment, they spoke about shame, they spoke about, you know, that side eye ostracized ostracized ostracized being ostracized, I was gonna use a different word.
39:54
SPEAKER_07: Oh, being ostracized when in reality these women have had the same experiences, experiences these girls have had.
40:04
SPEAKER_07: Um, being raped, a lot of these girls were raped, a lot of these girls went through child sexual abuse, and we're not talking about child sexual abuse um between the ages of 13 and 18, you know, we're talking about child sexual abuse from under five.
40:20
SPEAKER_07: And being socialized in a space where you're being abused, and the women in communities know about it.
40:31
SPEAKER_07: And I'm telling you, it's stories we're hearing, so I'm not making this up.
40:36
SPEAKER_07: They know about it, but you can't these girls can't tell anybody.
40:40
SPEAKER_07: You go to the hospitals, and the hospitals they're ridiculing a lot of these girls saying you look for it.
40:44
SPEAKER_07: There are nurses that say that you look for it.
40:48
SPEAKER_07: You know, I remember working in rape crisis and advocating you have to call these hospitals and you can't tell them these stories of these girls, but they're coming into you crying and saying, you know the rape, you know that they've been through, you know who's raping them.
41:03
SPEAKER_07: We can't say anything.
41:04
SPEAKER_07: It's in the courts, right?
41:06
SPEAKER_07: You're they tell you these stories, and then when they go to get these rape rape kits, these nurses are saying to them, Well, you look for it, you're spreading your legs.
41:16
SPEAKER_07: We are very vulgar with our young girls.
41:19
SPEAKER_07: And how are we as adults changing things when a society is enabling that type of language and that type of communication to girls and boys who are in vulnerable situations and need help?
41:38
SPEAKER_07: How are we doing anything different?
41:40
SPEAKER_07: We celebrate carnival, we celebrate our culture so well.
41:44
SPEAKER_07: Why can't we shift our narrative and start talking about the harder topics?
41:49
SPEAKER_07: Talking about what's what's the generation we're bringing up now.
41:54
SPEAKER_07: You know, there's so many people that I meet around the world, um, they love our culture.
42:00
SPEAKER_07: You know, but then when you when when you look at social media now in Trinidad, young girls are being raped.
42:08
SPEAKER_07: And this isn't this isn't now, you know.
42:10
SPEAKER_07: It's now hitting the news channels.
42:12
SPEAKER_07: It's social media has made everything more present, you know.
42:16
SPEAKER_07: But if I can tell you out of eight clients I have for the day at rape crisis, um, eight of them at some point would have experienced child sexual abuse.
42:26
SPEAKER_07: And we're talking about adults coming in and saying they were abused as children.
42:30
SPEAKER_07: We have children coming in and being abused by the adults in their lives.
42:34
SPEAKER_07: And all of these children, it's not strangers.
42:38
SPEAKER_07: It's people that they know and people that they trust.
42:40
SPEAKER_07: Now you're seeing them being killed.
42:43
Corie: Yeah, yeah.
42:43
Corie: And that's why I appreciate you talking about it.
42:45
Corie: Because the thing is, I feel as though the longer we keep these things a secret, is the harder it is to fix or help or change or anything like that.
42:51
Corie: Evan, and just talking from my own experience or talking to sometimes you just talk about things and things start happening, we headed in the right direction.
42:59
Corie: So I appreciate you talking about it.
43:00
Corie: I have a hundred questions again, just like we did the last time, you know, because when you're brought up that rape kit, I would you're telling us a story about your experience with that in Sinquil.
43:09
SPEAKER_07: My word.
43:10
SPEAKER_07: Um I think there's one thing that happened with the rape.
43:19
SPEAKER_07: That in itself was traumatic.
43:21
SPEAKER_07: But there's there was a lack of care from the that particular doctor who did that rape kit.
43:32
SPEAKER_07: And I remember thinking this can't be a woman.
43:39
SPEAKER_07: I remember that because all I felt was someone stick something in me, do that, and I had just gone through something very, very traumatic.
43:51
Corie: How soon after the assault is that?
43:53
SPEAKER_07: Right after.
43:54
SPEAKER_07: They had to do rape cut before they could do anything.
43:57
SPEAKER_07: So the first thing that they did was They couldn't give me anything.
44:01
SPEAKER_07: My they had to figure out how much um damage there was to my brain.
44:05
SPEAKER_07: So they couldn't give me any sedatives.
44:07
SPEAKER_07: So the minute I closed my eyes, I was seeing what I didn't feel, I was seeing afterwards.
44:12
SPEAKER_07: So there was a constant I I I couldn't close my eyes at all because my head would go into being constantly punched.
44:18
SPEAKER_07: It was so real after the fact, the adrenaline was high, everything.
44:22
SPEAKER_07: And I was feeling everything.
44:25
SPEAKER_07: And um she came in, and I'm sure that I I want to say, as much as I had a bad experience with the person who did the rape kit, the doctors who was in charge at that point at the emergency room, they were gentle, extremely gentle.
44:44
SPEAKER_07: They came, um, I didn't want anybody to touch me, so nobody touched me.
44:49
SPEAKER_07: Um they were very respectful of that.
44:51
SPEAKER_07: They spoke very softly.
44:53
SPEAKER_07: Um they had to I had like cuts, they had to stitch um around my face, different parts of my face.
45:02
SPEAKER_07: And they talked to me through it.
45:04
SPEAKER_07: I I don't think I felt anything.
45:06
SPEAKER_07: I think the adrenaline was so high that um I didn't feel any stitches or anything like that.
45:13
SPEAKER_07: Um and I couldn't look at myself, but they rape kit that experience.
45:18
SPEAKER_07: And then afterwards, working with these young girls, I think that's why I called the hospital so many times.
45:22
SPEAKER_07: Of course.
45:23
SPEAKER_07: Because I knew what it was like for you to go through something, and then someone is doing something to you without any empathy.
45:32
SPEAKER_07: It felt like that.
45:33
SPEAKER_07: And there should be compassion.
45:35
SPEAKER_07: You can be gentler, you can speak to the person as a human.
45:38
SPEAKER_07: You know, there was no communication between me and that person.
45:40
SPEAKER_07: You literally come into the room, spread my leg, and did something.
45:44
SPEAKER_07: You know, there was no, okay, tell me your name.
45:49
SPEAKER_07: Nothing, nothing, nothing.
45:51
SPEAKER_07: You know, and that lack of compassion, it that's the wood, that's one of the worst memories.
45:59
SPEAKER_07: Um I've had clients come and say that the person, and there's there's good doctors, huh?
46:05
SPEAKER_09: Sure, sure.
46:06
SPEAKER_07: That the person who did their rape could sat down and speak to them and ask them where their comfort lies, where their discomfort lies.
46:13
SPEAKER_07: Um, talk them through the process so that you're not, you're not, you're not being surprised by what is being happened.
46:20
SPEAKER_07: Because you live in, in that moment, you're living in extreme fear, you know.
46:24
SPEAKER_07: You don't think that everything around you is like it's going to hurt you.
46:28
SPEAKER_07: You're having so much physical pain, but also a mental state of hypervigilance that anything around you is going to hurt you or harm you.
46:36
Corie: But by this time, you're in Sinclair family around and stuff, the husband and everybody together?
46:40
SPEAKER_07: Um I wasn't married at that point in time yet.
46:44
SPEAKER_07: Um but yes, um, my my fiance was there.
46:48
SPEAKER_07: My friend who um found me, she was outside the curtain, and uh another person and the owners of the practice, they had come in as well.
46:58
SPEAKER_07: So my mom and dad, they were coming from south.
47:01
SPEAKER_07: And um my friend, one of my friends, she said to me, when she said, She don't know why I screamed.
47:09
SPEAKER_07: She said, But that was when the rape cut was being done.
47:13
SPEAKER_07: I screamed, and I can't remember that.
47:15
SPEAKER_07: She said, The scream again, I could not stop screaming when they were doing it.
47:19
SPEAKER_07: And years after I had an asthma attack because of the Sahara, I had a bad asthma attack and I ended up in St.
47:25
SPEAKER_07: Clair.
47:26
SPEAKER_07: And the doctor who stitched me up, he remembered me.
47:28
SPEAKER_09: Oh, you did?
47:29
SPEAKER_07: He did, and he said, Oh, I remember that scream.
47:31
SPEAKER_07: He said, Your scream, it was it was very I don't know how we described it, but he said I remember his scream.
47:37
Corie: How long did you sit in Sinclair?
47:39
SPEAKER_07: I ended up staying, um, I think about four nights.
47:43
SPEAKER_07: I stayed in St.
47:44
SPEAKER_07: Clair because they they were good.
47:47
SPEAKER_07: They put me in the kids' ward.
47:49
SPEAKER_07: I mean at that point in time I probably looked at my kid.
47:52
SPEAKER_07: Um, but they put me in with the kids and it was quite empty.
47:56
SPEAKER_07: Um and I had really good doctors.
48:00
SPEAKER_07: Um I know I had I had a lot of fear and they were very considerate in checking in on me and making sure that I was familiar with everyone.
48:13
SPEAKER_07: I have to give credit to the doctors and nurses at that time in St.
48:17
SPEAKER_07: Clair because the level of fear I had with strangers had gone from zero to a hundred.
48:23
SPEAKER_07: So everybody who entered the room was familiar faces.
48:27
SPEAKER_07: So nobody was, nobody was strangers, and anybody coming in, they would introduce me to the other person coming in.
48:34
SPEAKER_07: So I understood the shifts, I understand, I understood everybody.
48:37
Corie: It's good that they're sensitive to that though.
48:38
Corie: That's really good.
48:39
SPEAKER_07: I have to say, I and I don't know who was the doctor who initiated that, but it was very appreciated at that point in time.
48:46
Corie: Yeah.
48:46
Corie: So now you're going back home and you're saying not married at that point in time.
48:49
Corie: What's the conversation like?
48:50
Corie: What affecting your relationship?
48:52
SPEAKER_07: Um, that's the thing.
48:54
SPEAKER_07: Like now I could reflect on that.
48:56
SPEAKER_07: So there was a lot of narratives that was happening.
48:58
SPEAKER_07: Why would somebody for me, why would somebody want to marry me now?
49:01
Corie: In your own mind?
49:02
SPEAKER_07: In my own mind.
49:04
SPEAKER_07: And I have to say, this man stood by.
49:09
SPEAKER_07: Um, he he was part of the process.
49:12
SPEAKER_07: He there was a lot of you should not marry her.
49:17
SPEAKER_07: He got a lot of that from people.
49:19
SPEAKER_07: From people, from his family.
49:21
SPEAKER_07: But he was very good at being firm that this is somebody I've chosen.
49:26
SPEAKER_07: And um he stood by me and uh we got married, but I want to say that everything changed, his expectations of me changed because I had changed.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: I see.
49:40
SPEAKER_07: Um I knew I changed, but he expected there's a lot of dynamics.
49:46
SPEAKER_07: I mean, now we're divorced and we are friends now.
49:52
SPEAKER_07: Um, but it was 20 years of us growing up, having that experience at the start of our marriage and working through that, and then working through our own expectations of each other.
50:07
SPEAKER_07: Um because for me, I changed as a person, but my dreams of who I should be didn't change.
50:14
SPEAKER_07: Gotcha.
50:15
SPEAKER_07: Um it evolved.
50:17
SPEAKER_07: And he met someone, I think, and wanted me to be that version of myself.
50:24
SPEAKER_07: And um the dynamics of that, we didn't evolve together.
50:29
Corie: Gotcha, gotcha.
50:30
SPEAKER_07: And expectations, I I mean, as I said, I left, I didn't want to leave England.
50:37
SPEAKER_07: And for the experience of now coming back from England and then this attack and living in Trinidad for we lived in Trinidad for 10 years, one year in the US, but 10 years we stayed in Trinidad after.
50:51
SPEAKER_07: And I'm telling you, I I lived in the most in fear constantly.
50:57
Corie: Yeah, for the whole time.
50:58
SPEAKER_07: For the whole time.
50:59
Corie: Yeah, and I guess with marriages, most of it, everybody goes through that.
51:02
Corie: The thing about it is you personally meet, we all evolve, we all change.
51:05
Corie: And with that most of us do have our experience like yours, most marriages wouldn't have that.
51:09
Corie: So I would imagine that there's a lot of adjustment.
51:11
SPEAKER_07: It was.
51:12
SPEAKER_07: And he he had to put up with a lot because he there was a lot of fear to the point that um I couldn't drive alone for a year or two.
51:22
SPEAKER_07: I couldn't um I wouldn't go out on my own.
51:26
SPEAKER_07: Um, I don't like crowds even to today.
51:28
SPEAKER_07: I don't like people touching me.
51:29
SPEAKER_07: I don't like I'm so hypervigilant in Trinidad now that when I'm away, even in London, when I'm there, I I don't look back anymore.
51:39
Corie: Okay, so you don't feel that same sense anymore.
51:41
SPEAKER_07: No, in Norway, I I I'm alone a lot in Norway.
51:44
SPEAKER_07: I live I live by myself in Norway.
51:46
SPEAKER_07: And um, as I say, I live in a village and I I go for walks sometimes six in the evening in the forest.
51:52
SPEAKER_07: And the level of safety I feel within myself and in that space is vastly different from what I experience here.
51:58
Corie: I wondered if for you not wanting to come back home and then come back home and experiencing this, what are you thinking then?
52:03
Corie: You're regretting the whole idea of coming back home and all that then?
52:06
Corie: Like it tied you two things together.
52:09
SPEAKER_07: You know, I lived I I I lived prior to this, I lived prior to everything happening.
52:17
SPEAKER_07: I lived in a way that I enjoyed experiences and life.
52:22
SPEAKER_07: And it took a while to get back to a place of not questioning why me.
52:31
SPEAKER_07: I had to that was that was rel work.
52:34
SPEAKER_07: That was that was therapy, intensive therapy to stop asking the question, why me?
52:42
SPEAKER_07: And I I shifted my narrative, whether whether in the therapeutic space or through um my own journey of spirituality, I shifted my language because I think that I needed to own my experiences within that.
53:00
SPEAKER_07: And I can't I can't say to anybody that what happened to me was great, good, or anything like that.
53:08
SPEAKER_07: It was horrible and I don't wish it on anyone.
53:12
SPEAKER_07: Um but what I can say is that I made a choice to learn about more about myself and what I I know what I'm capable of.
53:22
SPEAKER_07: I know that I had to change my narrative of how I look at the world.
53:26
SPEAKER_07: I had to change all these lenses of fear into okay, um, how am I learning from that experience?
53:37
SPEAKER_07: And it started with me making that choice to go back and working in that same space and listening to others' story and being present for them.
53:51
SPEAKER_07: I think that was your first conscious choice of I could do better than just being a therapist.
53:56
Corie: How much time passed between your souls and when you started working in rape crisis?
54:00
SPEAKER_07: Oh, many years.
54:01
SPEAKER_07: Um so I was I I was surrounded by some of the best people at that time.
54:09
SPEAKER_07: Right.
54:09
SPEAKER_07: And um I went back into supervision, so I had to be supervised with my cases because now I am a therapist with experience in terms of the clinical practice world.
54:24
SPEAKER_09: Sure.
54:24
SPEAKER_07: But now I'm I still identify as a therapist, but now I have lived experience.
54:29
SPEAKER_09: Okay.
54:30
SPEAKER_07: And I could not, I can't listen to someone's story and relive my experience in their moment because then I'm not being present for them.
54:39
Corie: It would happen.
54:40
SPEAKER_07: It could have easily happened if I did not do supervision.
54:44
SPEAKER_07: I had to do, I had to go back to scratch and get supervised and go back and every single case get debriefed, and every and they were very careful about which cases I was getting.
54:55
SPEAKER_07: So I I eased in.
54:56
SPEAKER_07: And then one day somebody called and said, um, she just wants therapy.
55:01
SPEAKER_07: She just has issues, she wants therapy.
55:04
SPEAKER_07: And you know, they were like, okay, Gai Tree, you can do this.
55:07
SPEAKER_07: You can just go in and you know, you know what you're doing.
55:09
SPEAKER_07: It's nothing bad, it's nothing no abuse or anything.
55:12
Corie: Turn the own.
55:13
SPEAKER_07: And she came in, and I she I think I I she was my biggest experience of learning.
55:20
SPEAKER_07: Um she came in and she said, she said I'm in here for therapy.
55:26
SPEAKER_07: I was like, okay.
55:27
SPEAKER_07: And I moved my chair.
55:29
SPEAKER_07: So I'm I live with Fear, but she was she she was such a like I remember her, she was a Ras.
55:35
SPEAKER_07: She had her here in Russ, in a Ras.
55:38
SPEAKER_07: And um very very well put together, you know, um, beautiful little earrings and everything, you know, she had her piercings and stuff like that.
55:48
SPEAKER_07: And um she sat down and her body whole body language drop.
55:56
SPEAKER_07: So I move chairs and when I go in, I sit next to her.
56:00
SPEAKER_07: And she's telling me about, you know, she said, she's saying to me, you know, I'm not normal.
56:05
SPEAKER_07: I was like, what does that mean?
56:07
SPEAKER_07: She say, um, I'm a woman who's a lesbian, and it's not accepted in my space.
56:14
SPEAKER_07: And because it's not accepted, I've been gang raped by men.
56:19
SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, geez, I need to.
56:21
Corie: Yeah, you're right.
56:22
SPEAKER_07: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:24
SPEAKER_07: I'm not expecting that, you know, and okay, I say, okay.
56:27
SPEAKER_07: And I unconsciously put my hand out, not thinking, not anything.
56:35
SPEAKER_07: I unconsciously put my hand out, and she held my hand and then started to talk.
56:40
SPEAKER_07: And I forgot what had happened to me.
56:42
SPEAKER_07: I just went automatically into her space and be that support.
56:47
SPEAKER_07: And I said to her, I said after, I said, Do you want to stay with me?
56:50
SPEAKER_07: I at that point in time you don't share your experiences with anybody.
56:53
SPEAKER_07: I said, Do you want to stay with me?
56:55
SPEAKER_07: She said yes.
56:56
SPEAKER_07: And she stayed with me for more than a year working through it, never knew my experience of what I had gone through.
57:03
SPEAKER_07: But she was she was my pivot into knowing that I am resilient, and my journey in resilience after what had happened is now starting.
57:19
SPEAKER_07: It didn't start when I was surviving.
57:23
SPEAKER_07: It started when I made that choice that I can do this and I have a whole long journey in front of me.
57:31
SPEAKER_07: But if I can sit with her and she still wants to stay with me and go through her journey with me.
57:38
Corie: Yeah, then you could do it.
57:39
SPEAKER_07: Then I can do it, and I can be a version of myself that I would not have been if I don't know what she'd been through.
57:44
Corie: Understood, understood.
57:46
Corie: Yeah, so then I like I could see where now we would say that those are your heroes.
57:49
Corie: You you see that journey with them.
57:51
Corie: Yes.
57:51
Corie: I wonder with with therapists, you your first instinct when this happened is to go to therapy or you're sent to therapy, or how do how does that work initially?
58:00
SPEAKER_07: It's very hard when this now happens to want therapy.
58:04
SPEAKER_07: And I'm saying that from a client's perspective because there's so much shame attached.
58:11
SPEAKER_07: Sometimes your shame is not yours, you know.
58:13
SPEAKER_07: It's it's almost like it's the perception of how everyone views you.
58:19
SPEAKER_07: So I remember someone saying, You can't tell people what happened to you.
58:23
SPEAKER_07: Like every time they would tell me you can't tell people what happened to you.
58:28
SPEAKER_07: But at the same time, you're on the other side of it saying, I want to tell somebody to get it out of me.
58:35
SPEAKER_07: You know, you want to tell somebody.
58:37
SPEAKER_07: And the safe place is in therapy, but I've realized that from the from sitting on a client's chair, it's not always easy.
58:47
SPEAKER_07: Before I found my therapist, my and I was telling, I I know you and I speak about Mrs.
58:52
SPEAKER_07: Murray, even though you never meet Mrs.
58:53
SPEAKER_07: Murray.
58:54
SPEAKER_07: You talk about therapists.
58:57
SPEAKER_07: But before my Mrs.
58:58
SPEAKER_07: Murray came into my walk into my space, I had seen about three different therapists.
59:04
SPEAKER_07: And they all went down the route of tell me what happened, and then tell me about it again.
59:10
SPEAKER_07: And it was like they were so focused on the incident that they forgot that there was a person who had experienced something in that.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
59:21
SPEAKER_07: You know, and Mrs.
59:23
SPEAKER_07: Murray from day one, I mean, I knew her in the practice, but sitting with her, I can't remember ever talking about what happened.
59:34
SPEAKER_07: I almost remember sitting there and being able to just speak.
59:40
SPEAKER_07: And obviously, I spoke about it.
59:43
SPEAKER_07: But it was never like, tell me about what happened.
59:45
SPEAKER_07: It was never like you need to tell the story to me.
59:48
SPEAKER_07: It was never based on all these checks of different modes and frameworks that people use in psychology.
59:56
SPEAKER_07: She literally said, she literally made me feel as though I'm a human human being having a very human experience.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_07: And she's going to sit with me and be very present while I'm processing it.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_07: And it took years for me to get to a place of safety, but it also meant that she chose to be very present, so much so that I never felt as though I was in a therapy session.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_07: I always felt as though I was going into a safe space and I could just like be myself.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_07: So if I come in with a problem, it doesn't necessarily have to be because I was raped.
1:00:31
Corie: Sure.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_07: It could simply be because I'm a human being having a really shitty week.
1:00:35
Corie: Yeah, because I guess life It's life.
1:00:37
Corie: Yeah, it's life regardless of what the experiences are, where the trauma is.
1:00:41
Corie: Yeah, you're still get tomorrow and stuff gonna happen regardless.
1:00:46
Corie: I do remember you telling me about a friend who was like that for you as well, who would just sit with you.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_07: That's if one who found me.
1:00:52
Corie: Oh, really?
1:00:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's the one who found me.
1:00:54
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1:01:01
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1:01:05
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1:01:16
Corie: So go and do it now, and then we could jump back into the episode.
1:01:20
Corie: Bang.
1:01:21
Corie: I always wonder for you now, like, because you have a you have a young daughter.
1:01:25
Corie: Yeah.
1:01:25
Corie: And having gone through what you've been through, how much of a fear is it with you now in terms of protecting as parents?
1:01:31
Corie: You want to protect them and then you want to hold them, you want to keep them.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:01:34
Corie: Was it like living through that for you now with a daughter?
1:01:36
Corie: I think your daughter wasn't born then, no.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_07: She was born in Trinidad.
1:01:40
Corie: But she wasn't born back then.
1:01:41
Corie: No.
1:01:41
Corie: No, she wasn't.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_07: Um when it happened, no.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_07: She so that happened um in 2000 and I think the end of 2008, the assault happened.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_07: And she was born in 2011, end of the year.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_07: And um I wanted a daughter.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_07: I don't care what anybody says.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_07: I the minute I I I wanted more children, but if anybody have to ask me what I wanted at that point in time, I wanted a daughter.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_07: Um, my grandfather believed that girls are the luck of any existence, that they bring they bring divine um blessings.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_07: My grandfather was a firm believer of that, my mom's dad.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_07: And um when when I was born, my grandfather made a gold spoon for me.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_07: Um, so the first thing I ate was with this gold spoon.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_07: Oh nice because he believed that girls are divine blessings, and um she ate from that gold spoon as well.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_07: Her first yeah, yeah.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_07: Um but I wanted a daughter and I asked for it and I was blessed with a daughter, and um her in Trinidad was very different.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_07: My my my functioning as a mother in Trinidad was very different.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_07: Um I had to suck it up, all my affairs, I had to suck it up and be present to drive, take her where she needed to go.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it was very different.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_07: It was like you want to protect her, but you want to also have let her have experiences.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_07: And I know that we just spoke about, you know, the vulnerabilities of young children in Trinidad right now.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_07: And that fear existed for me when she was born.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_07: And it's because of the exposure to these spaces in the counseling room and the sharing of stories.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_07: I think I've I I had so much fear of her being in this space, being born into this space.
1:03:54
Corie: I guess you have your lived experience plus several people's experience.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_07: A lot of people's experiences.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_07: And you know, when you hear young girls, so we took her everywhere.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_07: We didn't leave her with anybody.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_07: Um we my parents were the only my parents and my siblings were the only people who had other responsibilities for her.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_07: Um, but I was like, I think I was hyper um vigilant when it came to her.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_07: One of the things that as a mother, I as a mother therapist and probably somebody who has gone through what I've gone through, I taught her all the correct words for body parts.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_07: Because I don't want anybody to everything.
1:04:38
Corie: Yeah, that's one of our things here, right?
1:04:40
Corie: We use a lot of little piggy leaks and we say the things.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_07: No, no, no, no, no.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_07: Because every child that you speak to when they when they when they've been abused, when you start learning their stories, um it's the language that they use to groom the kids.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_07: It's sugar and cookies.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_07: Think about everything a child likes.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_07: They use those things and then they start shifting the language to body parts.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_07: So it's a language of grooming that happens in spaces that children know these adults.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_07: So one of the first things I started, I think she was probably two going on, three.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_07: She was in kindergarten.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_07: And I said some, I told her, the only person who's supposed to um touch you, clean you, is your mother.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_07: Right?
1:05:32
SPEAKER_07: In kindergarten, these are the body parts, and I I had her say the words, right?
1:05:37
SPEAKER_07: So she would say it.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_07: And she had good aunties, the aunties in kindergarten.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_07: Um, so they were familiar with her.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_07: Um, if anything happened, she would say, Mommy, auntie, clean me.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_07: And I would she would say, I said, Did they did they do anything?
1:05:51
SPEAKER_07: No, no, no, no, no.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_07: This, this, this.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_07: She would show me what they do.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_09: Of course.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_07: So we started the narrative very, very young.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_07: And um, then she went to bed.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_07: Shops for a year before we migrated, and again the narrative was there.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_07: She knew the good touch, she knew the bad touch, there was no good touch, to be really honest.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_09: There was no good touch.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_07: She knew who's who is able to touch her body.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_07: She knew all the body parts, she knew boys' body parts as well as the girls' body parts.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_07: She knew that nobody's supposed to touch her.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_07: If anything happened, I told her she knew that have somebody call us and speak to us and we will come because we were both working around the savannah at that time.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_07: And um so I think one time she fell or something like that, and she she made them call because we were very clear.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_07: So she we grew her up in a we I don't want to say grew up, but you know, we we've always informed our process that these are the things to do, these are the things to do.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_07: And we also built a relationship with the teachers.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_07: Um and I think I think that is lacking.
1:07:05
Corie: Yeah, I understand.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_07: Um so we built a relationship, even in Norway.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_07: I built a very good relationship with all her teachers, um, but it started with her kindergarten, where I would speak to everybody, and anything happened, they would call.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_07: It is, it is, and it also means that she's comfortable with her teachers as well.
1:07:32
Corie: Of course, of course.
1:07:33
Corie: I just want to let you know that if you watch or you listen to this episode to this point and you didn't subscribe yet, you're wicked in real life.
1:07:40
Corie: You have a wicked spirit.
1:07:41
Corie: Do it now, and here now, only you're wicked to tell people the episode and them ain't long enough, you know.
1:07:46
Corie: Only saying the episode's in long enough, and then when I check it, you're not subscribed to the channel.
1:07:50
Corie: How it could get longer?
1:07:52
Corie: How you're gonna get part two.
1:07:53
Corie: These people are not cheap to bring out here, and all these people behind the cameras, they're expensive.
1:07:58
Corie: If not in cash, on my psyche, they're very, very expensive.
1:08:02
Corie: Bang! So let me shift gears and sort of talk about the business side of this now and what you do.
1:08:07
Corie: Because again, I was very, very, I don't know if I told you this before, but David would know when we found out we lost the episode.
1:08:18
Corie: Listen, I sick to my stomach, because you are the first person as well who ever reached out to say that they're abroad, but they want to do it when they come home, which is something that I want desperately, you know, people to tell different stories.
1:08:31
Corie: And then when I heard a little bit of your story, I was like, all right, let's do it.
1:08:34
Corie: So only to know that you come here and we do this thing, and then I care is the week we're ready to publish, right?
1:08:39
Corie: Behind the scenes now, right?
1:08:41
Corie: Everybody, the episode done.
1:08:42
Corie: They're just behind the scenes from here on, right?
1:08:44
Corie: But when time to publish the thing, because we would usually put out something saying, hi, I'm Gaia, but I can't find the file.
1:08:51
Corie: And it's like, what is happening here?
1:08:53
Corie: I couldn't understand.
1:08:54
Corie: I call this studio, they don't have it.
1:08:56
Corie: I'm pretty sure it's me delete the episode negligence, something went wrong, but whatever it was.
1:09:01
Corie: But here now, I get in a pressure now because now I had to call you back.
1:09:05
Corie: You back in Norway.
1:09:06
Corie: And what do you play his name again now?
1:09:08
Corie: Moi, you feel this part of Norway too.
1:09:11
Corie: Oh Lord, I said, But how am I going to tell this woman that this episode will be a share in a way that is I'll never forget.
1:09:19
Corie: I lost this thing, and I remember, boy, it takes about two or three days before I pick up that phone and call you.
1:09:24
Corie: I say, I can't tell her this.
1:09:25
Corie: I don't know what to do.
1:09:27
Corie: And I don't know if you remember your response at the time, and you said immediately, Corey, everything is happening how it's supposed to happen.
1:09:34
Corie: Everything happens for a reason.
1:09:35
Corie: We'll do it again, and it's going to be better.
1:09:38
Corie: That is something I will never forget.
1:09:40
Corie: I want to thank you for being that because I expect it to get close.
1:09:43
Corie: I expect it like you see when you call home and say you don't want to do the degree after you.
1:09:47
Corie: Expected that for me.
1:09:48
Corie: A hundred percent.
1:09:49
Corie: I was like, oh my god, this is this is bad.
1:09:52
Corie: But I appreciated it.
1:09:53
Corie: It changed, it shifted my stance completely.
1:09:55
Corie: And I think that's where we maybe form a connection because I felt like if you know this is somebody who there's a story that's so important to me for the listener, but it's a way of building a connection.
1:10:05
Corie: I appreciated your candor where that was concerned.
1:10:08
Corie: Yeah.
1:10:08
Corie: And um I was reminded of that again when I was reading your chapter because the last time you came, you left us with a book that you contributed to How to Survive and Thrive by Joe Foster, it is right?
1:10:19
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, collaborating with him, yes.
1:10:20
Corie: And I saw your chapter in that book.
1:10:22
Corie: And it's something that I wanted to ask you about because one of the things that you recommended was that people reflect every three months.
1:10:28
Corie: Remember talking about any book?
1:10:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:10:29
Corie: You want to talk about it, or like why is that important for you to share with people?
1:10:33
SPEAKER_07: I think that life is a journey.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_07: I am one that believes life is a journey, and that everybody has experiences, and some of them are so traumatic, they're so chaotic, and we can easily ground ourselves and anchor ourselves into those experiences that are so chaotic.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_07: And for me to get to the place, and this is this that that chapter was written purely based on reflection after how many years of making so many changes after the assault, after divorce, everything like that.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_07: And if we if we get stuck in something, that narrative that we have, it goes on for years.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_07: And we can get stuck in a narrative that we are unsuccessful, or that we are a victim of something, or that we are negative.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_07: You know, people's perception affects us as well, and people's narratives affect us as well.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_07: But I believe that if you step back and you look at where you were six months ago, three months ago, yesterday, you have an opportunity to change where your step forward is.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_07: And I put three months as in midway, but journaling is people talk about journaling, but journaling has but has been one of the best ways that you can look back and say, but this is where I was, and this has been the journey.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_07: That's just to keep a record, but it also helps you to express yourself, it helps you to engage in your full form of shifting your narrative.
1:12:10
Corie: So I appreciate you saying that in the book as well.
1:12:12
Corie: So no most of your time, and now I have a little bit of insight into the treatment thing, right?
1:12:16
Corie: Because I remember when you said you wanted to focus on your one-on-one practice.
1:12:20
Corie: Imagine that.
1:12:20
Corie: So that's what your main focus is now, doing one-on-one.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_07: Um, so it's a bit it's shifting again.
1:12:26
Corie: Right.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_07: So I wanted to develop uh so I have shifted the way I practice as a therapist.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_07: Um my story, I own my story.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_07: I I I have decided I am never wearing corporate clothes again.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_07: Yes it's I am not wearing jackets.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_07: I am not wearing, I don't believe in trousers.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_07: You know, then those lines, you know, these crease of.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I wish you.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_07: But that's I mean, that's that's everybody for me.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_07: I love my dresses.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_07: I I have a girly girl.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_07: This is me just for this.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_07: But I have a girly girl, right?
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: Right, yeah.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_07: My practice has shifted into me wearing dresses.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_07: Into me, I when I call in Norway, you get to me in a sweater.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_07: What a nice one because I still like my kids, I still like a certain feminine thing.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_09: Sure.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_07: Um, but I have shifted everything that I have done so that people who come to me see me.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_07: You're not seeing a therapist, you're seeing a full version of me when you need me.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_07: I am that person in that space with you.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_07: And you're not getting a made-up version.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_07: Um that meant for more than a year, I had to change within myself the way I view myself.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_07: I had to be comfortable saying that this has happened to me and I will not bring that into your space.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_07: But and I always give everyone half an hour of free time with me so that you get to figure out if you want to engage with me.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_07: Because for me, therapy is a very sacred space and a process.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_07: It also means that I have to be 100% present with you and you have to be very aligned to something in the future.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_07: You have to want to work towards that future.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_07: I don't want anyone to come to me and remain in victim mentality for a long period of time.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_07: I want them to be able to come to me and start shifting towards I have survived something and now I'm thriving.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_07: Hence the book with Joe, you know, working with Joe Foster.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_07: Um it's about alignment to everything.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_07: So getting into that space with with with um with Joe Foster, that just even the book, How to Survive and Thrive.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_07: It it's a narrative that takes you from victim to surviving something and recognizing that you have survived something and to want to shift how your journey is into I am living and I am happy and I am I'm blessed by my experiences.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_07: I am no longer weighed down by them.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_07: I have transformed and evolved.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_07: You know, I I want I want my clients to have that narrative.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_07: So you see that first half an hour, that first half an hour is for you, and that first half an hour is for me.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_07: Because I know if a client is stuck in everything has been done to them, and their narrative follows that they aren't willing to shift, I will refer them to someone else who is more aligned in that space.
1:15:24
Corie: Yeah, to help them with that.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:15:26
Corie: Understood, understood.
1:15:27
Corie: And uh congrats on achieving it because I do remember you saying that that's something you set out to do.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_09: I have, yes.
1:15:33
Corie: And um, before we close, I'd tell you how much you've helped and shifted the way I approach everything.
1:15:38
Corie: All of us, I think, because we well every time we meet, we talk about the things that would happen in the interviews or how we'd approach each interview.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_07: I'm so pleased about that.
1:15:46
Corie: Listen, it's no joke, it's no joke.
1:15:48
Corie: Up to the end of the day, I had to send Gaia interview for the one.
1:15:51
Corie: I was like, Gaia, this person, I never feel like I was talking to the real person.
1:15:54
Corie: It happens sometimes.
1:15:55
Corie: Yeah, and your feedback on it is is so interesting because when we first started talking, it was a lot to do with me trying to figure out okay, why is this working?
1:16:04
Corie: Why what what body language?
1:16:05
Corie: What am I doing that you see in that helps to seem that I'm open?
1:16:10
Corie: And um the truth is when I started to assess it, I could see it now.
1:16:14
Corie: And I feel like it's maybe natural.
1:16:18
Corie: It's not something that I'm trying to do or trying to put on or trying to adjust it to.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_07: I don't think you try.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_07: I think that I think that it's a natural way in which you communicate.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_07: And I know that I've said to you before that when you communicate, you communicate very openly, and you you it's almost like you get yourself lost in the invested story.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_07: And I think that comes across to the person sitting opposite you.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_07: Because I don't know how long we've been speaking now, but and I know you've heard my story before, but I never felt as though you heard my story before at all.
1:16:50
Corie: This was difficult.
1:16:51
Corie: It was it was the more difficult this time to be able to do it.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_07: I'm very sorry to put you through that again.
1:16:57
Corie: The thing is, I think because I know you know, like you know, you talk, so it's like hearing it.
1:17:01
Corie: It's a real person.
1:17:02
Corie: Oh my god, it is a it's a very big difference.
1:17:04
Corie: But it's helped a lot in terms of me being able to assess when you're sitting across from somebody.
1:17:09
Corie: It helps me be a little more present in your room.
1:17:11
Corie: Because before, when I first sat talking to you, like I tell you all the time, I only see it when we're editing.
1:17:15
Corie: So now it's a little easier to see it when I'm with somebody, and I want to respect and honor people's stories.
1:17:20
Corie: It's not a it's not a joke to me, it's not a viral moment to me.
1:17:23
Corie: It's a real person and a real person story.
1:17:25
Corie: I think it's important.
1:17:26
Corie: I remember when I was hearing some of these things as plans.
1:17:28
Corie: I always one of the things that excites me the most is to see people like plan things or talk about things, and then it becomes a reality.
1:17:35
Corie: And I'm happy I feel honored to have that relationship with you.
1:17:38
Corie: That relationship's even me the four figures for now, right?
1:17:41
Corie: We're working on getting there because your your contribution to this podcast is invaluable.
1:17:46
Corie: And I appreciate you, I appreciate it taking me two hours just to look at episodes sometimes to say, guy, what went wrong here, or what should I be looking at?
1:17:54
Corie: I appreciate it.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_07: Like I like when I hear that, and I tell I tell my trend client that every time we do work, and I want to say that to you as well, every time we work together, it's almost like I see that something shifts or there's an implementation, not for my benefit at all, but to see that if I've informed the process, it also means it's translated into what you change and what you do differently.
1:18:17
Corie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_07: And that's something I appreciate.
1:18:19
Corie: No, that is happening.
1:18:20
Corie: That is happening, those changes happen all the time.
1:18:22
Corie: Thank you very much, guys.
1:18:23
Corie: Thanks for sharing the story for a second time.
1:18:25
Corie: We apologize.
1:18:26
Corie: We apologize, we're not gonna make it with a time.
1:18:28
Corie: We're gonna put it in the city.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_03: But thank you very much, guys.