Latest / The Heart-Led Business Show / Blunt Wisdom and Heart with Dr. Amy Gutman

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Blunt Wisdom and Heart with Dr. Amy Gutman · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom Jackobs: Well, welcome back to The Heart-Led Business Show.
• 0:39
  Tom Jackobs: Today we're rolling out the red carpet for Dr.
• 0:42
  Tom Jackobs: Amy Gutman, MD, a board certified emergency doc with a heart as big as her resume, a leadership coach and the mastermind behind Tough Love MD.
• 0:53
  Tom Jackobs: Dr.
• 0:54
  Tom Jackobs: Gutman has spent over three decades transforming professionals into unstoppable powerhouses.
• 1:01
  Tom Jackobs: Join us as we dive into her journey of blending compassion with clinical expertise and discover how she infuses heart into every corner of her business.
• 1:11
  Tom Jackobs: Dr.
• 1:11
  Tom Jackobs: Gutman, welcome to the show.
• 1:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: Well, thank you so much, Tom.
• 1:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: I really appreciate it.
• 1:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: Thank you for the invite.
• 1:16
  Tom Jackobs: Absolutely, and I'm, I'm really excited to chat with you today because it's, I always love having doctors on the show because a lot of doctors struggle with the whole business side of providing a really great service, a heartless service.
• 1:33
  Tom Jackobs: So I, I'm really excited to learn about your journey through that, and I'm sure the audience will get some really cool insights as well.
• 1:40
  Tom Jackobs: So thank you for being on the show.
• 1:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: Thank you.
• 1:43
  Tom Jackobs: My first question, though is always, what's your definition of a heart-led business?
• 1:48
  Amy Gutman, MD: Well, I think a lot of it comes down to, for me, it's in the name of my company, so Tough Love MD.
• 1:56
  Amy Gutman, MD: So a lot of people think of heart.
• 1:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: Well, it's caring and giving and charity and which is wonderful, and I am a hundred percent behind that.
• 2:03
  Amy Gutman, MD: For me, the heart-led part of this is I am passionate about giving that tough love to people.
• 2:11
  Amy Gutman, MD: And what tough love to me is, Hey, you don't think that you can do these things that I know you can, or you've been told these, I call them the kind lies throughout your life.
• 2:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh, that's fine.
• 2:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: You're fine.
• 2:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: And sometimes, no matter how strong of a person you are, you need someone to come in and say.
• 2:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: No, I'm going to give you that tough love that you need to maybe give a little kick in the, I don't know if we're allowed to say swear words on your show, but a little kick in the tush, kick in the kick in the tush, as it were.
• 2:47
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so I run my business the same way I run my company.
• 2:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: I give professional kicks in people's tushes if, if that's the best definition.
• 2:59
  Tom Jackobs: I love that too.
• 3:00
  Tom Jackobs: And, and the, the fact that love is in your, the name, you know, Tough Love MD just, you know, qualifies it as a heart-led business.
• 3:09
  Tom Jackobs: 'cause it's, it's all about love and, and I think people can really appreciate the love behind giving advice or observations that are, that may seem critical and could come across as rude sometimes, but
• 3:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: Sure.
• 3:25
  Tom Jackobs: people, people really need that and I'm, I'm sure as a emergency room doc or emergency department doc, that you probably have to have a lot of those conversations.
• 3:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: I, I have a lot of very blunt conversations.
• 3:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: I, I think the most common criticism that I get is that, oh, she's mean, and I'm not mean.
• 3:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm, I'm quite, I'm blunt.
• 3:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I, I did a, a TEDx talk recently and it was about patient satisfaction and, I.
• 3:55
  Amy Gutman, MD: So, I either have five stars or zero stars or whatever the lowest you can give, and it's or one star, whatever, whatev negative two.
• 4:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: Dr.
• 4:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: Gutman is the worst physician I've ever had.
• 4:07
  Amy Gutman, MD: And the reason in their mind I'm the worst is I'm like, Hey, you are here'cause your sugar's outta control.
• 4:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: You're telling me you're following a diabetic diet.
• 4:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: You're not following a diabetic diet.
• 4:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: Now you, because of something you have control over, you have a really bad complication.
• 4:24
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so I'm like, listen, you can fix this.
• 4:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: And people, some people take it very well because no one's ever tell them that they can have control.
• 4:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: Take more insulin than ever.
• 4:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: But I let people know that they do have responsibility, and I think that's actually empowering to know that you have responsibility in your personal life and professional life, and that's the leadership part.
• 4:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: But some people do not take well to that, and I am perpetually being, like written up on patient satisfaction.
• 4:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: Dr.
• 4:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: Gutman is mean.
• 4:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: She blamed me because you know, my blood pressure's sky high and it's not my fault that I did X, Y, and Z.
• 5:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: When are things that are out of your control a hundred percent, we, I get that,
• 5:11
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:11
  Amy Gutman, MD: but you have to have ownership.
• 5:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: 'Cause if you don't have ownership, you can't improve.
• 5:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: So that's the
• 5:17
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: tough love.
• 5:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm not truly
• 5:21
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: the worst physician on the planet Earth.
• 5:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: I, I'm, I'm, I'm sure, I hope so.
• 5:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: I hope not.
• 5:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: Yeah, it's actually funny.
• 5:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I've been like a EMS and firefighting forever, and a doctor forever.
• 5:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: But I was having one of my colleagues last night, he has the Memorial Day weekend off.
• 5:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's his birthday, and I'm like, I wish him a happy birthday.
• 5:40
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I'm like, I'm just morbidly curious.
• 5:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: How old are you?
• 5:43
  Amy Gutman, MD: So he held, he, he holds himself very well.
• 5:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm gonna be 33.
• 5:47
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, oh my
• 5:48
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 5:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, I have underwear older than you are.
• 5:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh, that's lovely.
• 5:53
  Amy Gutman, MD: Happy birthday.
• 5:55
  Tom Jackobs: Right on that.
• 5:57
  Tom Jackobs: No, that's great.
• 5:59
  Tom Jackobs: Now, are you seeing, and this is just outta my, my own curiosity, morbid curiosity maybe, are you seeing that it's a certain generation that is not taking responsibility for their actions or is it across the.
• 6:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I think that it's individuals.
• 6:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: Obviously, you know, there's a lot of talk about the sort of the latest generation coming up being, less responsible.
• 6:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: What I think is interesting is the response, though, meaning when I talk to the like 20 to 30 year olds,
• 6:37
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 6:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: you would think they would be less responsive, but if you actually hold them accountable there is a fairly large percentage of people like, oh, I had no idea.
• 6:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: I think a lot of it comes because they don't necessarily trust authority in the same way that, I'm in my fifties.
• 6:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's a different it.
• 6:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I think if you put in the perspective of them trusting authority and giving them back the power, they sort of take that a different way.
• 7:09
  Amy Gutman, MD: The other thing is interesting in the 65 and up age group who are, they don't like being placated
• 7:20
  Tom Jackobs: Hmm.
• 7:20
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 7:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: And they're so used to it.
• 7:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: A lot of them have sort of, they, they don't respect authority in a very different way and also tend to react well.
• 7:31
  Amy Gutman, MD: When I'm like, Hey, these are things that you can do.
• 7:36
  Amy Gutman, MD: You also see that in the business world, which are leaders who are, you know, CEOs, CMOs, people who are running companies, are very used to being told, never being told no.
• 7:50
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so when somebody does, their response is also surprisingly receptive in some cases.
• 8:00
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Amy Gutman, MD: Whereas the people who are on their way up.
• 8:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: I find that the ones who are like truly leaders actually also respond very well.
• 8:10
  Amy Gutman, MD: 'cause it's like, oh, because they've never really been told that have responsibility for that.
• 8:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I think it's, you know, we talk about different generational things, but it also depends on how you're raised and where you're raised and that the culture.
• 8:32
  Tom Jackobs: And I think the reason that I asked that is we're of the same generation, so we're about the same.
• 8:38
  Tom Jackobs: And so, the I don't have kids, but like my niece and nephew of that, that generation tends to be the ones that get the participation ribbon for everything.
• 8:49
  Tom Jackobs: And like, and our generation, they're like, we had to fight for,
• 8:53
  Amy Gutman, MD: Mm-hmm.
• 8:53
  Tom Jackobs: you know getting first place, second place, third place, and that was it.
• 8:56
  Tom Jackobs: There's, there's nothing after.
• 8:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: Yeah, that's it.
• 8:58
  Tom Jackobs: And it's first place or nothing really.
• 9:00
  Tom Jackobs: And,
• 9:01
  Amy Gutman, MD: Right,
• 9:02
  Tom Jackobs: and so you grow up and then you're like entitled to get everything.
• 9:08
  Tom Jackobs: And when somebody gives you a little tough love, it's like, oh, I'm going on Google.
• 9:12
  Tom Jackobs: I'm gonna give you a zero star review.
• 9:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: And many do, but some people who got those participation ribbons, I think if you catch them in sort of the right environment and say, Hey, guess what?
• 9:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: You don't just get one in life.
• 9:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: Maybe you do need to work a little bit harder.
• 9:29
  Amy Gutman, MD: I think some people actually respond well to that.
• 9:32
  Amy Gutman, MD: I have a 16-year-old.
• 9:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: He's the light of my life.
• 9:36
  Amy Gutman, MD: He loves the dance and he is in his room and he's, he's an eighties kid.
• 9:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: He, I love it.
• 9:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: He loves the seventies and eighties and it makes me so happy.
• 9:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: He will never be on a Broadway stage.
• 9:50
  Amy Gutman, MD: I will tell you that.
• 9:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: He will never be Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly, but he loves it.
• 9:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I said, I don't care who else doesn't care that you're necessarily go to bed?
• 10:03
  Amy Gutman, MD: And Mom, am I good?
• 10:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: Are you having fun?
• 10:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: Cool.
• 10:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: Enjoy.
• 10:07
  Amy Gutman, MD: But we also know as much as parents go, this is not gonna be like a career path for you, but have fun.
• 10:13
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 10:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: But the same is with participation.
• 10:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: So let me ask you this.
• 10:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: When you were growing up, was there anything that you desperately wanted to do?
• 10:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: Desperately and
• 10:26
  Tom Jackobs: hmm
• 10:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: if you had not been told that maybe that was not your thing, you would've spent a long time in your life spending money.
• 10:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's like the kids who go to college and spend, you know,$500,000 on a career that they're never gonna make any money at, no one's ever said to them, this is not viable.
• 10:45
  Amy Gutman, MD: But in your life, has that, has, have you ever had this sort of kick in the teeth that like, oh yeah, maybe this is not, not gonna happen.
• 10:54
  Tom Jackobs: You know, I'm, I'm thinking back and not, not really.
• 10:59
  Tom Jackobs: And,
• 10:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: Lucky, then.
• 11:00
  Tom Jackobs: And we were, yeah, I mean, we were a musical family, so I played violin.
• 11:05
  Tom Jackobs: My, we, I had two older brothers.
• 11:08
  Tom Jackobs: Um, my oldest brother plays for the Cleveland Orchestra as for 25 years tour around the world.
• 11:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: That's amazing.
• 11:14
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Tom Jackobs: And, and we were, we did, we were a trio.
• 11:18
  Tom Jackobs: I got a little tired of it.
• 11:20
  Tom Jackobs: I, he, he told me later, he said, you could, you could be at the same level that I am.
• 11:24
  Tom Jackobs: Had you put yourself out there and, and actually done, done the work.
• 11:29
  Tom Jackobs: I just got disenfranchised in high school from an orchestra teacher who didn't, didn't put me where I thought I should be.
• 11:38
  Tom Jackobs: Just concert master.
• 11:40
  Tom Jackobs: So instead I went to the stage and I went through the theater
• 11:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh wow.
• 11:45
  Tom Jackobs: and got a degree in theater management.
• 11:48
  Tom Jackobs: I didn't, and I think at that point people were like, yeah, acting maybe, maybe not, but you're really good at management.
• 11:55
  Tom Jackobs: I was like, this is perfect because there's no math involved in theater management.
• 11:59
  Tom Jackobs: No, no requirement for math classes.
• 12:01
  Tom Jackobs: So I was like, sign me up for that.
• 12:03
  Tom Jackobs: But yeah, and then, you know, went through that.
• 12:06
  Tom Jackobs: But yeah, I don't think I ever had somebody saying, you know, Tom, maybe you shouldn't go down that.
• 12:11
  Tom Jackobs: But I think I did it myself.
• 12:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: I was gonna say, it sounds like you recognize that and that actually takes that takes a lot of insight.
• 12:21
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I think when you talk about generational things, maybe that key is a lot of the younger generation, sort of like our twenties and under that, I don't even know what they're called anymore.
• 12:34
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, me neither.
• 12:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: X, Y, I don't know, whatever.
• 12:36
  Amy Gutman, MD: I don't know that they necessarily have that insight, which is where the tough love comes in.
• 12:43
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 12:43
  Amy Gutman, MD: I kind of like help you recognize that insight.
• 12:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: And you, you don't wanna squash people's if, if like, listen, if you are living and dreaming because this makes you happy and you really think you can give it a shot.
• 12:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: Who, who am I to say?
• 12:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: Right?
• 12:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: I don't listen to a lot of like new artists'cause I, they hurt my ears.
• 13:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: But somebody does, I mean, they sell records I guess.
• 13:09
  Tom Jackobs: I dunno if they call'em records anymore.
• 13:10
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh, the A tracks.
• 13:12
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh, you know I've got the old Victor Rolla.
• 13:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: The Victor, is that what it's called?
• 13:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: With the, with the like, yeah.
• 13:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: Mm.
• 13:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: Yes.
• 13:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm dating myself.
• 13:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: Yes, I know.
• 13:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: Final.
• 13:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: Gotta love it.
• 13:23
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Tom Jackobs: So, so tell us about, tell about Tough Love MD.
• 13:28
  Tom Jackobs: What got you into that heart-led business and just the journey that you've gone through with that.
• 13:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: Sure, I'm, I, so I, I love immersive medicine and pre-hospital care.
• 13:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: I love my job and despite my Google reviews, I always thought of myself as a, a fairly decent physician.
• 13:45
  Amy Gutman, MD: I work very hard.
• 13:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm, uh, very nerdy.
• 13:48
  Amy Gutman, MD: I think a lot and I put a lot of time.
• 13:52
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm not the quickest'cause I sit and I talk to patients I think, and then I had sort of important disorder.
• 13:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: I've been a lifelong vegan and I hit menopause and I got really sick, like dying sick and could not figure out what was going on.
• 14:10
  Amy Gutman, MD: I looked at myself as a patient, I'm like, everything's broken.
• 14:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: It doesn't make any sense.
• 14:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I got sicker and sicker and sicker, I really lost confidence in myself as a physician.
• 14:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, I can't even fix me.
• 14:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: I can't diagnose me.
• 14:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: And really profoundly bad symptoms.
• 14:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: And then I stumbled upon sort of a couple little random biochemistry articles as I'm trying to figure out things.
• 14:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm again super nerdy and as I went down this rabbit hole into trying to figure out what was wrong and tying all the symptoms together.
• 14:43
  Amy Gutman, MD: I unfortunately found out a lot of what I thought I knew about medicine and what I've been teaching people, students, and patients for decades was really not correct at all.
• 14:56
  Amy Gutman, MD: What I thought was evidence based wasn't, and I became very, very depressed over that in that only am I maybe not a good doctor, but I don't even understand this.
• 15:12
  Amy Gutman, MD: What I thought was true was not.
• 15:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: Really quite fraudulent.
• 15:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: A lot of the things that we've taught our patients in things over the years, these horrible conspiracy theories that are now actually really quite real.
• 15:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: But in doing that, I discovered a very different way of living, sort of metabolically addressing root causes of disease.
• 15:29
  Amy Gutman, MD: Don't attack a disease as a disease.
• 15:32
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's like giving more insulin to a diabetic and not fixing what they're eating.
• 15:36
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 15:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: And as I discovered that, a very large group of evidence, scientific evidence came to the for and I just dove into it.
• 15:45
  Amy Gutman, MD: I found like-minded physicians and clinicians, researchers from around the world and ultimately fixed myself.
• 15:55
  Amy Gutman, MD: Like to the point where I am so much healthier in my mid fifties than I was at age 20, but did not wanna stop there because I think of it as penance.
• 16:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: So this is another thing with a heart-led business.
• 16:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: I am so upset that.
• 16:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: And there's a wonderful book.
• 16:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: Um, it's called,'Lies I Taught in Medical School', it's Dr.
• 16:24
  Amy Gutman, MD: Ken Berry.
• 16:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I'm like, I need to undo what I've done, but also recognizing that the things that make us physically strong, make us mentally strong and say, what can I do not just with patience, but how can I help people live fuller lives, like strong lives.
• 16:45
  Amy Gutman, MD: And because I'd spent some time in executive leadership, I looked around, I'm like, you know what?
• 16:52
  Amy Gutman, MD: I can take all these things I know in emergency medicine that makes a good leader yet to run an emergency department.
• 16:58
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 16:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: Things I know from executive leadership and use the science behind.
• 17:02
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's to support people's success.
• 17:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: And that's kind of penance in a way.
• 17:09
  Amy Gutman, MD: I am letting people know that I had to learn the hard way by getting so sick there are different ways of living and not just like showing up every day, but thriving.
• 17:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: So that's the core of what I do is, Tough Love MD.
• 17:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: So at night I'm like Batman sort of at night.
• 17:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: At night I work in the emergency department and in Florida.
• 17:32
  Amy Gutman, MD: So there's definitely a lot of, hold my beer and watch this in Florida.
• 17:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: I love it.
• 17:36
  Amy Gutman, MD: And during the day I, either teach or I lecture or I travel, or like a company will say, Hey, come for, uh, executive retreat weekend and show people by example, but also using science, how they can be their best.
• 17:56
  Amy Gutman, MD: You see a lot of people who are like, you know, it's very rah rah.
• 17:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: I am not a rah rah kind of person.
• 18:03
  Amy Gutman, MD: But I like, Hey, this is what you have in you and this is what you can do.
• 18:08
  Tom Jackobs: Mm-hmm.
• 18:08
  Amy Gutman, MD: And you can do doing this and this is why.
• 18:12
  Amy Gutman, MD: This is what the science shows you.
• 18:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I very, very much enjoy that.
• 18:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: I love, I have a dear friend, he's a intensive care doctor.
• 18:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: He calls them light bulbs.
• 18:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: He says, you know it when you're talking to somebody and all of a sudden they go, ah.
• 18:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: He goes, you can like that little cartoon light bulb, you can see it go off.
• 18:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I love when that happens.
• 18:36
  Tom Jackobs: So how did you transition?
• 18:38
  Tom Jackobs: Well, you haven't really transitioned.
• 18:40
  Tom Jackobs: You still have, you're still, you're doing both.
• 18:43
  Tom Jackobs: How did growing your Tough Love MD business, which is like the executive leadership, I, are you doing coaching as well in terms of small group?
• 18:54
  Tom Jackobs: So how did you start that while also being a doc at night?
• 18:59
  Tom Jackobs: That seems exhausting.
• 19:00
  Amy Gutman, MD: It, well, it is uh, it's exhausting.
• 19:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: Actually, I, I really don't take a lot of my advice because I'm like, you really need to get like really good sleep for your cortisol.
• 19:09
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I'm like, every two hours I'm like, I have a meeting because I, you know, I do a lot of business overseas because night shifts, so day nights that I'm off, I do business overseas.
• 19:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: It was actually really random as I was kind of trying to figure out how I could do this penance.
• 19:24
  Amy Gutman, MD: I got a call from someone who saw my LinkedIn profile and says, oh, you do traditional medical teaching.
• 19:30
  Amy Gutman, MD: At the time I'd been, you know, lecturers like, you know, this is a mitochondria click, this is a bio click, you know, click.
• 19:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: they said, Hey, what are you doing on Saturday?
• 19:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: We see you live in Orlando.
• 19:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: We've had a speaker drop out of our, air conditioning executive launch.
• 19:47
  Amy Gutman, MD: We'd love to, can you give a talk?
• 19:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, on what?
• 19:52
  Amy Gutman, MD: Like, listen, we, sure you can pull something and do something medicine-y.
• 19:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, oh.
• 20:00
  Amy Gutman, MD: And they said we'll give you five grand.
• 20:02
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I'm like, I'm sorry, what?
• 20:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: And as it turns out, I, I was working and no one could cover my shifts, but I did find someone for them and I said, I thank you.
• 20:11
  Amy Gutman, MD: I said, I tell me what this, what do you do?
• 20:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: I don't understand.
• 20:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: Why would you give$5,000 to someone to show up and give a lecture?
• 20:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: They had you to do that, a medical conference, and they give you like maybe chicken or like a coupon.
• 20:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: Coupon for the bar.
• 20:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: And they said, no.
• 20:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: You know, physicians who do these things get paid a fairly large amount of money.
• 20:32
  Amy Gutman, MD: They said we were desperate.
• 20:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: That's why we're offering that.
• 20:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: But, and so I went sort of down that rabbit hole.
• 20:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, Hey, maybe I can not just help people in my emergency department.
• 20:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: Maybe there were people out there that I can have like this broader audience.
• 20:48
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so that's where the speaking portion of it, which is really challenging.
• 20:55
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's because, so I started actually podcasting to learn how to talk to people, because after so many years on night shift in the emergency department, I just sort of grunted during the day when people talk to you and it's like, Hey, what do you think about whatever?
• 21:08
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, ah, ah, you know.
• 21:11
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's a, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 21:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I started podcasting to learn how to actually talk to people.
• 21:18
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 21:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: have a conversation, spontaneous conversation, and became comfortable on stages.
• 21:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: Whether you have slides or you're speaking to an audience.
• 21:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: And developed a sort of a curriculum.
• 21:32
  Amy Gutman, MD: We go signature talks on, Hey, I've got leadership based on science.
• 21:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: I have metabolic health fertility, things like, they're like, these are random topics, but they're all tied together by addressing your metabolic health.
• 21:47
  Amy Gutman, MD: And then that came out to, I had someone approached me.
• 21:50
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, Hey, can you teach this at a corporate retreat?
• 21:54
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, Okay, and they said, well, we just fly you out to, I'm like, I'm sorry you.
• 21:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: do you mean you fly people out?
• 22:00
  Amy Gutman, MD: Yeah, we fly people out.
• 22:01
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh, that sounds cool to me.
• 22:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so it is very difficult balancing the night and the day and, but it helps me actually fund the things that I love doing that don't pay.
• 22:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: Like I, my heart is still in EMS, I love pre-hospital care.
• 22:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: Those conferences don't pay.
• 22:23
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 22:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: So if I get a paid conference, it helps me do the things that don't pay, which is a terrible business thing.
• 22:29
  Amy Gutman, MD: So if you wanted to know how not to run a business, it's that
• 22:33
  Tom Jackobs: don't charge.
• 22:34
  Amy Gutman, MD: don't charge.
• 22:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: Actually take a loss because you know you.
• 22:39
  Amy Gutman, MD: So that would not be the world's greatest business advice, but it's really good for the heart portion of the heart-led businesses.
• 22:46
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 22:47
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, so I like that concept too because clearly the day job, which is your night job for a lot of people that can be the safety net.
• 22:55
  Tom Jackobs: And so it, it's allows them to do more passion type projects.
• 23:01
  Tom Jackobs: But also now you're using what you're making on the speaking and your coaching business to then fund doing more, pro bono type of work for the the heart-led projects that you love.
• 23:12
  Tom Jackobs: That's great.
• 23:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: Or undercutting a price.
• 23:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: There are a lot of physicians just like lawyers of like, oh, it's$500 an hour to do X, Y, and Z.
• 23:20
  Amy Gutman, MD: And there's a lot of places that, you know, it's a rural place or underfunded or that just they can't.
• 23:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so you take it because it's an important job that needs to be done, but you know you're not gonna make a profit out of it.
• 23:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: So that means you have to now seek out something that's gonna pay you double.
• 23:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: So you can continue to do that.
• 23:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so that's, I'm a, a new business owner.
• 23:49
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm a new CEO, so I run a business, but I'm still at that.
• 23:54
  Amy Gutman, MD: Okay.
• 23:54
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm just here and so next year, this is my goal, and I think that's actually a really important key with businesses, is that it can't be just, oh, I want to be the next Mark Zuckerberg or whomever.
• 24:10
  Amy Gutman, MD: It has to be a very discreet set of goals.
• 24:16
  Amy Gutman, MD: When I met my, I have a virtual assistant who's lovely, who she is in the Philippines, so we're actually, her day is my day as well.
• 24:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: 'cause it's night.
• 24:27
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: Which is nice.
• 24:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I said, next month or first month together.
• 24:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: When we met, I said, next month I wanna book one$1,000 job.
• 24:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: I want you to book me one$1,000 job.
• 24:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: That's my goal next month.
• 24:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: You're new to each other.
• 24:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: Month after, it's either gonna be three$1,000 jobs or one$3,000 job.
• 24:51
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 24:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so I, you make these specific goals.
• 24:54
  Amy Gutman, MD: I want to build my LinkedIn audience by this.
• 24:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: I want to have a connection with this person.
• 25:00
  Amy Gutman, MD: Specific.
• 25:02
  Amy Gutman, MD: I said, this is the target.
• 25:04
  Amy Gutman, MD: I have this one conference that I'm dying to speak at, not because it pays well, but because of who's there.
• 25:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: And said, if I can get on that stage, those are the people that I want to hear my message.
• 25:23
  Amy Gutman, MD: 'cause those are the people that are gonna hire me to let share that message with more people.
• 25:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: So very discreet way to run a business.
• 25:29
  Tom Jackobs: Okay, great.
• 25:30
  Tom Jackobs: And is that how you're also balancing making a profit in that business and also being heart-led?
• 25:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: Absolutely.
• 25:40
  Tom Jackobs: Did you have,'cause a lot of heart-led people and definitely those that are in the healthcare world as well, have big hearts and they just wanna give, give, give.
• 25:49
  Tom Jackobs: Did you ever have that whole conflict between, should I charge, should I not charge, like that whole thing and then ended up not doing it all or something?
• 25:59
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's, it's hard saying no.
• 26:01
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's very, very hard saying no, but then you say, so I'm one of those people.
• 26:07
  Amy Gutman, MD: If I can't do a job and exceed your expectations, I really should not be doing that job.
• 26:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: But maybe if I can't do it, maybe I know someone who can.
• 26:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: So it's really hard saying no, but so like today, so I worked overnight and today I have a meeting with you.
• 26:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: I have another meeting later this afternoon and I have a third meeting that I emailed them two days ago.
• 26:36
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm like, listen, we're gonna have to just reschedule.
• 26:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: I know you have a deadline, we're just gonna do it like six hours later.
• 26:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: I just need to, I just can't do like 36 hours.
• 26:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: I just know it.
• 26:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: And they were not terribly upset, but they were, you know, just went like, Hey, we've had this meeting set for two weeks.
• 26:52
  Amy Gutman, MD: I get it just a few hours.
• 26:53
  Amy Gutman, MD: We'll, we'll move it.
• 26:55
  Amy Gutman, MD: I knew it would upset them, but I also knew what time zone they're in and I gave them enough time.
• 27:02
  Amy Gutman, MD: So I said, this is an option, but this is why I'm doing it.
• 27:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: Please understand.
• 27:07
  Amy Gutman, MD: I never lose focus of the fact that the reason I'm trying to do this is because I don't just wanna be a better physician or a better leader.
• 27:15
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's has to be because I need to be a little bit better too.
• 27:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: That's part of it.
• 27:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: So that means a better mom, a better wife, a physician.
• 27:25
  Amy Gutman, MD: And so if I never say no, I can't do that work.
• 27:31
  Tom Jackobs: Yep.
• 27:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: It is, and I, I don't mean to go sort of gender roles in it, but it's something that a lot of women struggle with.
• 27:40
  Tom Jackobs: Absolutely.
• 27:40
  Amy Gutman, MD: And a lot of female business owners.
• 27:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: I sort of read incessantly on LinkedIn.
• 27:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: I know it can be like a horror show.
• 27:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: I understand.
• 27:47
  Amy Gutman, MD: But I, I find it really interesting.
• 27:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: A lot of women executives talk about that particular struggle and a lot of males, executives do not.
• 27:58
  Amy Gutman, MD: And I'm sure the struggle is exactly the same, but it's actually quite interesting the divide there when women have to almost apologize for pulling back a little bit, you don't necessarily see that in men.
• 28:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: Some you do, and I think that's a, it's a lovely quality.
• 28:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: And it's not like an imposter syndrome, you know, people talk about that all the time.
• 28:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's, I just, I, I need to be successful.
• 28:29
  Amy Gutman, MD: I need to actually focus.
• 28:31
  Amy Gutman, MD: And this has to be the focus sometimes.
• 28:35
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:36
  Tom Jackobs: If you're not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of others, right?
• 28:38
  Tom Jackobs: Put your oxygen mask on first.
• 28:40
  Tom Jackobs: Right?
• 28:41
  Amy Gutman, MD: Exactly.
• 28:42
  Amy Gutman, MD: Although, yeah, I'm flying in a few days.
• 28:44
  Amy Gutman, MD: I hope I don't wait.
• 28:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: That actually, that is honestly the worst part about being a speaker.
• 28:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: I,
• 28:52
  Tom Jackobs: That's my favorite part.
• 28:53
  Amy Gutman, MD: oh, I love traveling.
• 28:55
  Amy Gutman, MD: I love traveling.
• 28:57
  Amy Gutman, MD: I hate flying.
• 28:59
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 28:59
  Tom Jackobs: Got it.
• 29:01
  Amy Gutman, MD: You like fly how?
• 29:02
  Amy Gutman, MD: I mean, you
• 29:03
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, I love, I, well, I have a pilot's license for,
• 29:06
  Amy Gutman, MD: I did not know that.
• 29:08
  Tom Jackobs: yeah, I learned in Orlando.
• 29:09
  Tom Jackobs: But yeah, that's, yeah.
• 29:11
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Tom Jackobs: I did.
• 29:12
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 29:12
  Amy Gutman, MD: My dad say, uh, my father's a retired B 52 pilot, and I did not inherit, love it all.
• 29:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: I, I used to be a, a flight physician on a helicopter, and I, I was the thinnest I'd ever been in my entire life'cause I literally spent the days, like, anxiety 12 hours before puking, puking all during the shift, puking after the shift.
• 29:31
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh, the pilot's going, oh my gosh.
• 29:34
  Tom Jackobs: Do we have her again?
• 29:35
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 29:35
  Amy Gutman, MD: Oh my gosh.
• 29:37
  Amy Gutman, MD: Thank God she can save lives.
• 29:39
  Amy Gutman, MD: Dr.
• 29:40
  Amy Gutman, MD: Gutman, get the extra Clorox.
• 29:43
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my gosh.
• 29:44
  Tom Jackobs: Oh my God.
• 29:44
  Tom Jackobs: I can't believe that we were at that time already.
• 29:47
  Tom Jackobs: This has just been a fascinating conversation and a really nice perspective as well in terms of still having kinda the day job, night job and building a business and still having that all that time for heart-led pursuits as well.
• 30:01
  Tom Jackobs: So I think that's great story.
• 30:03
  Tom Jackobs: And, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 30:05
  Tom Jackobs: But before we go off.
• 30:06
  Tom Jackobs: How do people get ahold of you and get in contact and maybe they, they need a speaker.
• 30:11
  Tom Jackobs: How can they get ahold of you?
• 30:13
  Amy Gutman, MD: Well, you can either drink a beer and cut your hand off with a chainsaw.
• 30:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: and come to my emergency department, or,
• 30:19
  Tom Jackobs: What was that last night?
• 30:21
  Amy Gutman, MD: well.
• 30:22
  Amy Gutman, MD: No, we don't, we don't pay patient confidentiality.
• 30:24
  Amy Gutman, MD: But lemme tell you, it is Florida.
• 30:26
  Amy Gutman, MD: It is Florida.
• 30:27
  Amy Gutman, MD: Florida man is real.
• 30:28
  Amy Gutman, MD: An easier way, a less painful, way less bloody would be to go to my website.
• 30:33
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's, www.toughlovemd.expert.
• 30:38
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's a really quite horrible, I have to say, my IT skills are not quite as good as my medical skills, but I'm working on it every day.
• 30:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: So yeah, toughlovemd.expert and it lists all my services.
• 30:50
  Amy Gutman, MD: And then you can go to LinkedIn.
• 30:51
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm on LinkedIn under Amy Gutman or Tough Love MD.
• 30:54
  Amy Gutman, MD: And listen, have suitcase, will travel, I grip, you know, my little, but speaking I'm, you know, I do events.
• 31:03
  Amy Gutman, MD: I'm really, really passionate about metabolic wellness, both for personal and professional, and, I have a, a very exciting book coming out.
• 31:14
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's called Powerhouse Your Life, Live Your Life Like a Resuscitation.
• 31:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: It's all those things from emergency medicine that leadership, how these weird little things from my life and I have a, a very most emergency physicians are a little weird.
• 31:30
  Amy Gutman, MD: like, uh, little goldfish.
• 31:31
  Amy Gutman, MD: But how to take those lessons and apply them to sort of anyone, how can you take this lesson and become better in your personal life, professional life, so lead your life like a resuscitation coming out soon.
• 31:44
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 31:45
  Amy Gutman, MD: But I love it.
• 31:46
  Amy Gutman, MD: And friend me on, I'm on Twitter as well at Tough Love MD and I've met some wonderful people there and been hired for some wonderful jobs just based upon me laying out a challenge like, oh, you don't think you can be better?
• 32:01
  Amy Gutman, MD: Give me five minutes and I can show you how good you can be.
• 32:05
  Amy Gutman, MD: So, and it's all science,
• 32:08
  Tom Jackobs: That's awesome.
• 32:08
  Amy Gutman, MD: All science based.
• 32:09
  Tom Jackobs: Well, Amy, thank you so much for being on the show today, and I really appreciate the conversation.
• 32:14
  Tom Jackobs: I know our audience is gonna love it as well, so thank you for that.
• 32:17
  Amy Gutman, MD: Thank you so much, Tom.
• 32:18
  Amy Gutman, MD: It was absolute pleasure.
• 32:19
  Amy Gutman, MD: I am again so grateful and it was lovely meeting you.
• 32:22
  Tom Jackobs: Thank you.
• 32:23
  Tom Jackobs: And thank you listeners for listening and watching the show today.
• 32:26
  Tom Jackobs: I really appreciate it.
• 32:28
  Tom Jackobs: Make sure you're checking out everything that Dr.
• 32:30
  Tom Jackobs: Gutman is doing.
• 32:30
  Tom Jackobs: We're gonna provide all that down in the show notes, so make sure you're checking that out.
• 32:34
  Tom Jackobs: And if you could do me a favor, and that's to share the show with a friend or loved one that could use the advice that was shared on today that will help spread the word about heart-led businesses and help more people get into being more heart-led.
• 32:47
  Tom Jackobs: So until next time, lead with your heart.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.