Latest / Your Estate Matters / Episode 67 - Building a Business That Thrives Without You with Katie Bennett
Transcript
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</script><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">var DOCS_timing={}; DOCS_timing['pls']=new Date().getTime();</script><meta property="og:title" content="YEM Amanda Doucette Transcript"><meta property="og:type" content="article"><meta property="og:site_name" content="Google Docs"><meta property="og:url" content="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VSsbnN_tS0IC7-vZxVQGlGW6VwB6qGkWHvxSKzZaGIQ/edit?usp=sharing&usp=embed_facebook"><meta property="og:image" content="https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docs/AHkbwyJ3lfE0r2YJ9FvF9-Pt1tcTfXbHemgso0gE_rBBEmKj9i7uFqDRwH-Em7KITW1KGdHm31GVHeyWszWnRXC_eGFn5mtoFW7kFHbEc7EpGfwTxXXQq6be=w1200-h630-p"><meta property="og:image:width" content="1200"><meta property="og:image:height" content="630"><meta property="og:description" content="Nicole 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to Your Estate Matters presented by Heritage Trust. 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Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy. If it\u0027s estate related, we\u0027ll be talking about it. We\u0027re having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets and their legacies tomorrow. Hello and welcome to Your Estate Matters. I\u0027m Nicole Garton. When we talk about estate planning on this podcast, we often focus on wills, powers of attorney, tax and trusts. But for many Canadian families, one of the most valuable assets in the estate is not a bank account or an investment portfolio, it\u0027s the family business. According to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, 76% of Canadian small business owners plan to exit their business within the next decade. That represents more than 2 trillion in business assets, yet only 9% have a formal business succession plan in place. Those numbers tell us something important. A business transition is not only a tax issue, it\u0027s a legal issue. It is also a leadership issue.\n\nNicole 00:01:13 A will can say who inherits the shares. It cannot make the business run. A tax plan can reduce the cost of transition, but it can\u0027t preserve value. If the owner was the only person who knew how everything worked. My guest today is Katie Bennett, a master certified chair with Mackay CEO Forums and founder of Double Black Diamond Coaching. For more than 20 years, Katie has worked with CEOs and executive teams across Canada, helping build high functioning leadership teams, align around clear strategic plans, and create businesses that do not depend on any single person to survive. Katie, thank you so much for joining us. It\u0027s amazing that we have some of your calibre and experience. Thank you so much for being on our podcast. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. You\u0027ve got a really illustrious career working with CEOs and business owners. Tell me what drew you to this?\n\nKatie 00:02:07 It\u0027s a really good question, Nicole. I was thinking about that when you asked me to prepare for this. And, you know, it\u0027s quite a circuitous journey because my background is I went to business school and I ended up in advertising as my first career for 11 years.\n\nKatie 00:02:20 So it wasn\u0027t where I went straight away, and I just found myself quite unfulfilled in that profession. I couldn\u0027t put my finger on what it was I was meant to be doing, but I kind of knew that wasn\u0027t it, and found myself sitting in a coaching program in my early 30s, and in one weekend of exposure, I kind of was nodding, going, I think this is what I meant to be doing. No idea what that was going to look like. I was still working full time in advertising, and so the path for me started through a lens of coaching, and that was really about for me because I was stuck in the wrong career. It\u0027s like, what do I want to be doing? What am I passionate about? Where will I find purpose? What are my values? What would line up with all of that? And so it led me into this new profession in my early 30s. And so quickly I was like, oh, well, maybe I\u0027ll work with other people in career transition.\n\nKatie 00:03:08 And then I discovered very quickly, people in career transition don\u0027t have any money. So it led me back very quickly, back into the corporate world. And it was like, how do I blend my business experience, my advertising, marketing, communications experience now with this coaching lens that I have? And so I started working with leaders around leadership development. Then that led to teams around building high functioning teams. Then I layered in the piece around strategy, strategic planning, working with organizations to build their strategy. And all of that work led me to working with being introduced to Nancy MacKay. So Nancy MacKay is the CEO of MacKay CEO forums, and she started that business 20 years ago. And nine years ago we met and she said, I want you to chair with Mackay. So that was an additional layer. And what that is our CEO roundtables. You\u0027re part of one. So you\u0027ve had the experience of sitting around a table with another dozen CEOs, tabling your biggest challenges and really tapping into the vast experience in the room of what others have done in order to solve 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":4323,"s":"\nKatie 00:04:18 So that\u0027s kind of how I got to where I am today. 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":9089,"s":"\nKatie 00:09:09 Just yourself. Because then if something happens to you as the founder, it\u0027s really difficult for anyone to pick up the ball from underneath you. Right? If something were to take you out of the game, even if it\u0027s just I\u0027m sick, right? Or as opposed to I\u0027m dead because I know that\u0027s your business but.\n\nNicole 00:09:26 Or incapacity.\n\nKatie 00:09:27 Or incapacitated. Yeah. So I feel like this call that I\u0027ve just received this week and this process we\u0027re putting into place, I\u0027m like, these guys are on it. They\u0027re going to set themselves up for successful transition, and they\u0027re building something underneath them that can survive without the current leader.\n\nNicole 00:09:44 So they\u0027re the anomaly. So I think the stats are small. Family owned businesses are the vast majority of GDP and employers in Canada. And as the baby boom generation ages, I think the stat is like 75% of these businesses are going to transition within the next ten years. And unfortunately, so many business owners are not on top of it the way your clients are. So why do you think that is? Why do you think so many business owners aren\u0027t doing the things that they should be doing, given these huge transitions coming?\n\nKatie 00:10:17 Yeah, it\u0027s a really good question from working with entrepreneurs.\n\nKatie 00:10:21 What I\u0027ve learned is they\u0027re very independent. They deeply believe in themselves. There can be a lot of ego. Not in a bad way, but just belief. Like, okay, I\u0027ve got to be involved. I\u0027ve got to do it. I\u0027m the one who\u0027s created this. I\u0027m the one who\u0027s built this. And then I\u0027ll just. When I\u0027m done, I\u0027ll just find someone to buy it. Right. There\u0027s a smallness to that thinking. So there is a little bit of like, how big do you want to be? Because with that model, you can only get to a certain point before you can\u0027t grow any further, because you\u0027re just your hand tied by the sheer what can come across your desk as the entrepreneur. It can\u0027t expand beyond that. So I think too many people just try to go it alone. And I see this even when I talk to someone who might potentially join a MacKay group. And I\u0027m trying to explain what we\u0027re doing. The line I\u0027ve heard so many times is “it\u0027s really lonely at the top.”\n\nKatie 00:11:14 And what I always say is it does not have to be like, you don\u0027t have to play this game alone. So I think, you know, your stats are pretty staggering. If 75% of businesses are going to turn over and people aren\u0027t ready for it. You know, that\u0027s really tricky. And it really devalues the company if you get to even valuations, which is a pretty huge consideration if someone wants to sell is if it\u0027s all concentrated with one key individual, the valuation just shrinks, right? So you\u0027re doing yourself a service by getting involved with other people early in every aspect of the business. Yeah, I think there\u0027s as you said, there\u0027s a tsunami coming. This is where I think of my children. And I go, you guys should think about buying a business.\n\nNicole 00:11:56 Okay, Katie. So let\u0027s get practical. If a business owner is listening right now and they\u0027re recognizing themselves in these stats, where do they start? What does it actually take to build a leadership team that could carry on without them?\n\nKatie 00:12:08 Yeah, it\u0027s a great question.\n\nKatie 00:12:10 And I love this idea of getting in front of it. And I think it\u0027s Jim Collins. Get the right people on the bus. Like we\u0027re going back 20 plus years. Good to great. The book he talked about getting the right people on the bus. So what I\u0027ve seen over and over again, even the example I gave earlier, they\u0027ve brought some external people in. They\u0027re starting to get the right people on the bus. So it starts with that. So here you are. You are this business owner, this leader, this person who has drive and passion, pushing things forward. Now it\u0027s about building a team around you who are on the bus with you, right? You\u0027re the bus. You\u0027re the bus driver. Who have you got with you? So it\u0027s about hiring, whether promoting from within or bringing out some external people to build a leadership team. And then you have to really look at them as a leadership team. So how do you develop their leadership competencies and how do you actually develop a strong team? 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="ZPsE2sNjR3zHRr_K7AS95A">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":13458,"s":"\nKatie 00:13:04 But there\u0027s sometimes when you find tools that just work, one of them is The Five Dysfunctions of a team. It was written by Patrick Leonsis (I wish I wrote it) over 20 years ago. And he simplifies what derails a team. And basically what derails a team is if there\u0027s a lack of trust. If people don\u0027t know how to debate, they don\u0027t know how to get into vigorous debate. They don\u0027t commit. They don\u0027t know how to hold each other accountable, and they don\u0027t have all their eye on the same ball. If that\u0027s happening, you get a dysfunctional team, so you can just kind of look at that model and flip it and go, okay, therefore what must we work on once you\u0027ve found these right people? It\u0027s like, what does it take to build a very high functioning team? The foundation is trust. What are we doing every day to ensure that this group of leaders really is creating an environment where it feels like I\u0027ve got your back and you\u0027ve got my back, and I can come to you and say, I\u0027ve made a mistake and I\u0027m going to get help and support, not punished.\n\nKatie 00:14:03 Right. So that deep, trusting team where you can be a bit vulnerable, ask for help when you need it and know that it\u0027s there and then you layer on top of that. How do we build a team where we can vigorously debate, and we\u0027re not afraid of conflict, where we can talk about strategy A versus strategy B, and really, really debate and challenge the thinking, not get mad at each other, but challenge the thinking. So you want to build a team that knows how to do that commitment and buy in is a really interesting one because people will say they\u0027re committed, but whether or not they\u0027re bought into the direction you\u0027re going. Can often be where the challenge lies, because you might come to the table and debate left or right. Everyone tables their point of view. We\u0027re deciding to go right. But people still have passion for left, so they keep nudging it forward. Even subconsciously. They\u0027re still putting effort and work there so they\u0027re not actually bought in. So finding out where the challenges lie.\n\nKatie 00:14:59 The next one is accountability. I have never worked with a team who doesn\u0027t think they could get better at accountability. It\u0027s really tricky, and that\u0027s really about building a system inside your organization. A quarterly, weekly, monthly, whatever. Your cadence is a system to hold each other accountable to achieving your goals. And then the top of the pyramid, the thing that lines everybody up is that strategic plan. I use a one page strategic plan approach. It\u0027s simple. It doesn\u0027t need to be complicated. If it\u0027s too complicated, likely it\u0027s going to be hard to achieve. It\u0027s limited. I think when people put too many priorities, then they aren\u0027t really priorities. And so it\u0027s about getting that alignment. So it\u0027s kind of always looking week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out. Are we building a team that\u0027s aligned around trust? Can we debate? Are we committed? Do we know how to hold each other accountable? And does everyone have alignment strategically on where we\u0027re going.\n\nKatie 00:15:55 And that takes work. And then underneath that it\u0027s building all the systems that can execute against that.\n\nNicole 00:16:02 And it\u0027s hard to do when you are immersed in the day to day tasks. Right. So it\u0027s hard to step away and make time for that team building when you\u0027re just racing to accomplish whatever technical thing the business does.\n\nKatie 00:16:15 Yeah. And what I see often is the because of that, because we get so tactical that the issues that might require more than 15 minutes just keep getting pushed aside or under the rug, because you don\u0027t take the time to actually dive into the key issues that are holding you back as a team or as a as a leadership group, or strategically being able to pause and go, wow, what is going on in the world? You know, as we see today, there\u0027s so many macro things being thrown at us to have to pivot and adjust all the time with what\u0027s happening on the geopolitical level and all that. 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So that\u0027s when I speak about a system. What I mean by a system is like, you know, when do you meet with your team? What are you talking about? Like, if Monday mornings, a tactical meeting once a month, it\u0027s that deep dive on key issues. Once a quarter, it\u0027s “how are we doing and moving our whole year forward once a year,” it\u0027s strategically, “where are we going next year?” It\u0027s creating a system that works.\n\nNicole 00:17:22 So we just did a strategic plan retreat that you facilitated for us beautifully. So let\u0027s talk about that. You often do work on that one page strategic plan. So what is it and why is it so valuable to move businesses forward?\n\nKatie 00:17:37 Yeah, I think, you know, pick your tool. So I would start there. There\u0027s a lot of tools out there. The one page strategic plan you can look at a book called Scaling Up. 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The cost of living has gone up. There\u0027s trade and security. There\u0027s the huge disruption with AI. I think a lot of people probably feel like they\u0027re drinking through a fire hose, just trying to survive day to day. And I think what we\u0027re hearing from you, Katie, is how important it is to actually have some rigor, discipline to say, okay, every quarter we\u0027re going to touch base. And maybe once a year we\u0027re going to sit down and say, okay, you know, where do we want to be in 3 to 5 years? Are we even doing the things we need to be doing?\n\nKatie 00:33:14 Well, I agree with all of that. And I go back to like how you and I know each other. I know you because you\u0027re sitting around one of the MacKay CEO forum tables that I chair. And what is that like? Why do people say yes to that? 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In fact, likely the person sitting beside you has already done it. Maybe just did it last year.\n\nKatie 00:34:24 I\u0027ve seen documents go across the computer to go, “here, I\u0027ve already done my AI policy.” Whatever governance, don\u0027t start from scratch.\n\nKatie 00:34:31 Here it is. You know, just that idea to surround yourself with people, like minded people. There is help out there. You don\u0027t have to go it alone. And that\u0027s the beauty of this kind of work is getting the support you need.\n\nNicole 00:34:45 So there\u0027s a business owner out there, they want to get support. They want to start working on this. How can they find you?\n\nKatie 00:34:50 You can go to my website. KatieBennett.ca, you can reach me by email at katie.bennett@mackayceoforums.Com. So those are two different paths in Katie Bennett is my own business. MacKay CEO Forums, I work with them. So there\u0027s two paths that you can find me.\n\nNicole 00:35:07 Great. Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom with our listeners.\n\nKatie 00:35:11 It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.\n\nNicole 00:35:19 Katie. Thank you. This has been such an important conversation because it fills a gap that most estate planning discussions miss.\n\nNicole 00:35:25 Many business owners have done the legal and financial side of their estate plan, but they have not addressed the single biggest operational risk whether the business can actually survive without them. A will can say who inherits the business, but it cannot make the business run. A tax plan can minimize tax on a transfer. But if the business has lost value because the owner was the business, the tax savings may not matter much for anyone listening who owns a business. Here are the key takeaways. Number one, building a business that can thrive without you is not just good business strategy, it is estate planning. 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