Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Chuck’s Commentary - Trump Made The Midterms MUCH Harder For Republicans + Rest In Peace, Barney Frank

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Chuck’s Commentary - Trump Made The Midterms MUCH Harder For Republicans + Rest In Peace, Barney Frank · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: so use that code. Well, Hello there, and happy Thursday.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: It's another episode of the Chuck Podcast.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: And this, of course is a holiday weekend, the beginning
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: of the of summer as far as some people are concerned.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, Memorial Day weekend.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Memorial Day is Monday, which means that the long weekend.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And you know how Washington is. They're desperate when there
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: is a Monday holiday. They want to figure out how
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: to have a two week recess for every three day weekend.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Right the rest of us might get an extra day off.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Congress always wants to turn these three day weekends into
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: two week recesses.
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  Speaker 2: But I digress.
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  Speaker 1: Still, I know this is the start of something, so
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: let me give you a rundown of what we got today,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit of clean up from Tuesday nights elections,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a few more things I want to touch on, and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: this sort of a very divided Republican Party, but i'll
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: explain how they're divided on this episode. I want to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: spend a few minutes remembering Barney Frank. He passed away
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: in the last forty eight hours, and I just think
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: he's not History is going to be quite kind to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Barney Frank, but I think we're not fully appreciating just
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: what a pioneer he was is And like I said,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I think history is gonna be quite kind. And of
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  Speaker 1: course I'm gonna spend some time taking your questions. So
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  Speaker 1: there's there's your rundown for the day. But let me
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: first do a little cleanup from Tuesday night. I think
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: at the time that I recorded for the Wednesday episode,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: weren't a hundred percent sure about Derek Dooley in Georgia.
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  Speaker 1: Well we are now one hundred percent obviously sure about
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  Speaker 1: Derek Dooley in Georgia.
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  Speaker 2: That was.
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  Speaker 1: That, of course, and it's going to be an interesting split, right,
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  Speaker 1: You've got Mike Collins in that Georgia Senate race, who
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't technically have an endorsement, but it's pretty clear Donald
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Trump's about to do that. Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: who has been who's famously stood up to Trump and survived. Right,
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  Speaker 1: there are not many Republicans who can say that. There's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Brian Kemp, and there's Lisa Murkowski, and you know, it
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  Speaker 1: feels like and there's not many others left who have
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: taken the wrath of Trump, have been targeted by Trump
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  Speaker 1: and have survived to tell about it. In the case
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of Governor Kemp, I mean, he he thrived in what
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: he did. And the question is what's this primary going
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  Speaker 1: to be like? We know that we know what might
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: be in the best interests of one entity isn't in
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the best interest of the other. So that's going to
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: be interesting. Keish Lance Bottoms indeed one without a runoff.
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  Speaker 1: What's more significant there is the total turnout in Georgia.
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  Speaker 1: Democrats basically outpolled out voted Republicans in Georgia by about
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  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand votes, so that means collectively two million, Right,
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  Speaker 1: that's a sort of a five percent essentially, did you
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  Speaker 1: know improved you know on a five percent basis. That's
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  Speaker 1: that's pretty indicative. You know, this is a swing state.
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  Speaker 1: I care about this in swing states more than anything else. Right,
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  Speaker 1: And you had more competitive Republican primaries than you did
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Democratic primaries, certainly to Democrats. There was a competitive gubernatorial primary.
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  Speaker 1: We didn't have the near the amount of money being
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: thrown at it as the Republican side.
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  Speaker 2: We've got business.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Manwick Jackson who spent a ton of money, and that's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: another race. We're all all tuned in to see what
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the President's going to do. But you know, there's one
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  Speaker 1: real reason why I want to play cleanup on this,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and it's a couple of things that's out west.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: I fully confess to have gone to bed before we
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: knew everything that we needed to know in Idaho and
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: in Oregon, and I wanted to make a special note
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of Idaho. First of all, I felt bad we didn't
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: spend any time in our live stream talking about the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Idaho primary. Look, everybody seems to have of the governor's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: likely going to get another term. The Senator Jim Risch
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: that's up, is likely going to get another term. But
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  Speaker 1: there's something interesting taking place in you know, there's a.
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  Speaker 1: There's an independent candidate running that I've featured todd A
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Chillies who's been on this show, and he's trying to
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: run sort of in that in that sort of hey,
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  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not a conservative, but I'm not a liberal, right,
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  Speaker 1: He's trying to run in that sort of center leftish
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: center center lane. When you're looking at a Idaho and
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  Speaker 1: if you're ever I think going to see a challenge
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  Speaker 1: to one party rule in a ruby red state like Idaho,
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  Speaker 1: you're more likely to get it from an independent candidate,
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  Speaker 1: from a from a from somebody who's who's sort of
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  Speaker 1: a disaffected Republican who decides to run as an independent.
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  Speaker 1: But Democrats have a candidate for percent of two, so
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  Speaker 1: that that's not going to probably get anywhere unless unless
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  Speaker 1: the Democrats take an ee. So we shall see on that,
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  Speaker 1: but it is worth noting what's interesting about Idaho is
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  Speaker 1: that the current governor who won renomination again was targeted
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  Speaker 1: by Donald Trump four years ago. He didn't target the
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  Speaker 1: sitting governor this time, little who be back a Trump
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: endorsed challenger four years ago. So we always talk about
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Brian Kemp as the guy who stood up to Trump. Well,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Brad Little, the governor of Idaho. Maybe he doesn't get
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  Speaker 1: a lot of attention, but he was able to stand
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: up to Trump and stay a Republican in good standing.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to bring that up, because
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it seems now that in Washington you cannot oppose Donald
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Trump and be considered a Republican in good standing, at
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: least as far as this Republican Party is concerned. And
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that is quite should send shivers down the spine of
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: just about every elected Republican that has to be in
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  Speaker 1: the ballot in twenty.
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  Speaker 2: Six because.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: If you are stuck having to salute the flag on
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: everything Donald Trump that he supports at the moment, you're
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: not going to win. You you have going to have
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: a harder time winning reelection. Not saying you're not going
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to win reelection, but you're gotta have a much harder time.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: The idea that there is no diversity allowed right, I
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: thought the movement on the right of which Trump was
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: able to get in front of and become the sort
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: of parade leader for one of the more effective attacks
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: on the Democrats is that, oh, you know, you're not
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: allowed to be an independent thinker on the left you're
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: not allowed to sort of disagree on the left. Well,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: what has happened to the Republican Party? This is as bad,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: if not worse than anything the woke left. It. We
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: really have a woke right that Donald Trump sort of
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: leads this woke right right. If you don't he is,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: he is his own DEI right, the way they use
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  Speaker 1: dei to lambass the left or lambas to anybody that
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't agree with him.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: He's kind of formed right.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: If you don't do it exactly the way he says it,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: which is again what the critics on the right had
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: claimed the left was doing with programs like diversity, equity,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and inclusion. Essentially in his own weird way, he's done.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: He has sort of instituted this stridency, this top down
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: this you're not allowed to think independently, You're not allowed
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to be at all, fall out of line. You have
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: to salute here. This is not a free thinking political movement.
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  Speaker 1: And the irony was what made Donald Trump's movement appealing
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to what was a cross section of Americans is that, hey,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: you could say what you want. You didn't have to
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: have the conventional beliefs of the supposed stringent establishment wing
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of the Republican Party. But it turns out the establishment
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: wing of both parties are a hell of a lot
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: more open minded than some of the bases are, in
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: particular the Trump movement. The Trump movement here as run
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: by Trump, is not open minded at all, does not
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: allow for any freethinking, and in fact, it is punished.
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  Speaker 1: He's gone on a rampage over the last forty eight
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  Speaker 1: hours complaining about Lorn Bobert, Brian Fitzpatrick Lauren Bobert, a
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  Speaker 1: Republican who votes with Trump probably ninety eight percent of
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the time. Brian Fitzpatrick in Pennsylvania, a swing district in Pennsylvania.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: He's about the only Republican that can hold that district.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he votes against some Trump priorities like the
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: ridiculous ballroom and what does Trump do, attacks that congresswoman's
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: spouse who is a reporter, who wants to hold the reporter,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: of course, in just a ridiculously inappropriate way, and what
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Washington does too much, which is essentially sometimes makes a
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: spouse have to answer for the political opinions of their
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: spouse when hey, aren't we all independent free thinkers here,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: but he's all mad well, he votes against Trump. So
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: if you criticize this taxpayer funding his private ballroom that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he promised would be privately funded, you're somehow out of
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: whack with Trump. Lauren Bobert, her sin is that she
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: supported Thomas Massey because she wants to bring more public
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: disclosure on what happened with Epstein. That's her sin. So
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the fact that he gets I will say this, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I'm somebody who thinks that the conspiracies about Epstein are
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: probably a little overcooked and a little overcranked, and that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: what people believe was taking place. I'm not saying what
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: he did was what he's actually done, and we know
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: that he's done was bad, disgusting, horrible and immoral. But
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: some of the things that people think he did is like,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: you know, there are things it's like, no, that didn't happen,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And there isn't this larger cabal.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Of folks that are out there that said right. Donald
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Trump's behavior.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: You know, he behaves with the Epstein story the same
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: way he always behaved with the Russia story. If there's
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: nothing to hide, why are you so nervous about disclosure? Wait,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: with Russia, there was nothing to hide, that nothing happened,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: but he was nervous about sitting down, and instead he
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: decided to obstruct justice. And he seems to have the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: same attitude about Epstein, where he constantly anybody that isn't
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: you know again basically what Lauren Bobert said, and she said,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I'm looking to see if there's somebody I can run
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: against her. Since the filing deadline has passed again, her
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: sin is campaigning for Massey over this one issue. She's
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: literally with them on a bunch of other staff. She
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: may not be with them on the Iran war, but
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans aren't fully convinced of this Iran war.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Help I think his own vice president isn't convinced of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the Iran war. But it is one of those where
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking Shakespeare in my head, methinks you doth protest
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: too much. His bizarre denials on Epstein very much are
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: similar to me in this second term. The way he
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: handled the Russia investigation. You know, there wasn't there was
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of circumstantial evidence with Russia, and there was
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of circumstantial elevenance with Epstein, but there's never
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: been you know, the silver bullet, the actual thread that
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: you know, the Aha, here's the form, here's the proof,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: here's this right that's always been very circumstantial. But one
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: of the strongest pieces of circumstantial elevenance has always been
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Trump's behavior. You know, Trump behaved as if he had
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: something to hide about his relationship with the Russians. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Trump behaves like he has something to hive with his
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: relationship with Epstein. And you know, it's one of those
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: he men. Nobody brought this up, yet you seem to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: be angrier about Lauren Bobert over that than you are
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: about anything else. But it gets to this other larger
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: issue here, which is the what his purification process to
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: basically trumpify the party, because there's no ideological through line here,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: like what when FDR purged his party, there was an
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: ideological motivation about it. There was an agenda that was
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: motivated for Trump. The agenda's Trump, right, And so what
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: he's purging is are you going to support Trump no
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: matter what? Are you're not going to support Trump? And
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: if you support Trump no matter what, I'm with you,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And if you're not, I'm not with you. Right, I mean,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: just look at his Paxton endorsement. In some ways, I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you know, for a guy who demands loyalty. If he
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: didn't endorse Paxton over Cornyn, yeah, I would have. It's
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: more proof that he's you know, loyalty's a one way
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: street to him. I mean, uh, you know, I think
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Paxton is a is a complete, you know, sort of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: unqualified public servant. But if you're sitting in Donald Trump's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: shoes the pen, Paxton's been quite loyal to Donald Trump
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and is crazy right. You know, he helped create tried
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: to build legal legitimacy around his bogus claims around twenty twenty.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So Paxton is an important soldier in Trump's campaign to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: sort of overturn reality. So in some ways it would
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: be been disloyal of Trump not to support Paxton on that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: But that's why Paxton's getting support, right, And he even
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: said it. John Corny didn't support me soon enough for president.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: So again, you know, John Cornyn sin is not is
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: daring to perhaps not agree with Donald Trump one hundred
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: percent of the time. Bill Cassidy sin was believing that
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's behavior on January sixth was unconstitutional, unethical, likely illegal,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But in all that, both Cornyn and Cassidy were willing
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: to support ninety percent of Donald Trump's agenda, and that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough. Meanwhile, the irony to all this is Donald
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Trump is creating a situation where it makes it's going
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to make governing for him and his agenda much harder.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: He is pissed off Senate Republicans up and down. Now
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: are they coming out and saying it, you know, in
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: front of the camera.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: No, they're not going to. They see what happened. They
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: paid attention, and this is what Trump is holding over
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: their head.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: They see what happened in Indiana, they see what happened
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in Kentucky, they see what happened in I guess you
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: could say he had some success in Georgia, but I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: don't count Georgia's having much success. But the fact is
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: we do know you've had Trump's support in a primary,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: it matters more than if you don't. And he can't
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: end careers in primaries. He can't end careers in general elections,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: but he can't end careers in primaries.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But he is making.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: It that much harder for Republicans to win in competitive
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: states and in competitive elections where there's a whole group
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: of voters who don't agree with Donald Trump. Say, but
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: thirty percent of the time, but might not be allergic
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to someting a Republican But if Donald Trump insists, it's
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: always got to be in support of Trump and not
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, which I guess is what this is.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's the question right now?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Is there a.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Republican party anymore? I do believe if Donald Trump said tomorrow,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you know what, the Republican Party brand sucks, I'm the brand.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to rebrand the party maga, and We're going
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to rename the party MAGA. Who would stop him? I
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: don't think anybody would. So it is his party, but
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: he is setting it up for massive failure. He is
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: making twenty six even harder than it is. Well. This
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• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Use that code.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Now, dirty little secret. By the way, on the on
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this ballroom funding and the whole reconciliation, you know, he's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: been going off on a rant about the Senate parliamentarian.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: You know, fuone should fire the Senate parliamentarian. You know
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: who is ecstatic at the Senate parliamentarian's decision to take
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the ballroom funding out of their reconciliation.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Bill, John Thune.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, if he could give her her raise, I'm guessing
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: he would. I'm guessing I'm at least twenty five Republican
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: senators are relieved that they don't have to cast a
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: vote for that thing, because if it gets on the floor,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you know, there'll be a whole bunch of Republicans who
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: hold their nose to vote for it for fear of
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: being seen as the guy against it. But there are
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: now there's a growing Yolo caucus inside the Republican Senate.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: The chair of the Yolo caucus right now is mister
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Tom tillis. Lisa Murkowski has been a founding member of
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the Yolo Caucus for some time. Bill Cassidy already showed
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: his independence this week voting against the president on the
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: War Powers Resolution, and John Cornyn is likely to be
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the latest and newest member of that rand. Paul is
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: already there like he has. Trump has made his life
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in the Senate so much charter and now the likelihood
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that Democrats are going to flip both chambers, especially if
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Ken Paxton is the nominee for Senate in Texas, because
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: as I said on Wednesdays, this has multiple layers to it, right,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Ken Paxton's nominee means the Texas Senate race looks winnable
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to Democrats. So if the Texas Senate race looks winnable
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: to Democrats, that's more rich people writing bigger checks to
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the Texas candidate in Talo Rico, to the super PACs
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that are supporting Tallo Rico, to the state party. And
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: in turn, what does that mean. That brings more money
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: into the state, and that trickles down the ballot and
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: it puts more Democrats in certain House races in a
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: competitive place. Probably means the governor's race becomes more competitive.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: On top of that, you have a nominee in Ken
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Paxton who is a terrible fundraiser, who does not have
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the institute utional support of the party. So there's going
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to be a lot of people that don't want to
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: write this guy at check, don't want.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: To be associated with him.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: John Cornyn was a prolific fundraiser. I read one where
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: by one estimate since he's entered the Senate in two
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: thousand and two that he's raised over four hundred million
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: dollars for Senate Republicans over the years. Whatever you think
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of John Cornyn, he's a hell of a fundraiser out
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: of Texas. Now, I'm old enough to remember when when
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: John Cornyn was recruited to run for Senate because he
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: was the moderate that could win statewide. Then of course
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you know he moved with the party. Look, John Cornyn's
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a Republican, okay, And if being a Republican in Texas
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: means you got to run center, right, he's going to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: be that. If it meant you have to run big conservative,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: he's going to be that. I don't say that disparagingly,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I just say that as an explanation, Right, there are
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Democrats that are that way, that are just oh the Democrat.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of it's like Chuck Schumer. Chuck
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Schumer just moves where the party's going, and I don't.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden was one of those. He always, Joe Biden
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: always put himself in the middle of wherever the party was.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So if the party leaned right, he looked like he
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: was center, a little little closer to the center. And
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: if the party was super progressive, he looked more like
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a mainstream. But he was always in the he was
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: always in the mid not in the center of the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: country politically, but in the center of the party politically.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: That's kind of where I would put John Cornyn. He's
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: always he always looks to be in the center of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: where the Republicans are. He's not going to be a
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: liberal Republican and he's not going to be based Mike
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Lee right, He's he's going to be a mainstream, pro
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: business Republican. Ken Baxton, I you know, look, he's just
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: a transactionalist that has you know, fused his personal life
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: and his political life and his professional life and created
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: all sorts of uncomb I mean, in some ways he's
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a mini Trump and how he manages his personal life,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: his professional life, and his political life in the state
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: of Texas. So again, and I go back in some ways,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: him supporting Paxton is is you know, is many Trump.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: But this, this is really put the Republicans in a
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: in a government, in a in a governing hole.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And it's.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure, you know, And it's really bizarre.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: So Trump's was really sort of flexing. He felt, he feels,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: he feels this weird sense of power because he was
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: able to get rid of Massey and all this stuff.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And he really seems to be completely clueless or in
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: denial that what he's doing is somehow setting his own
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: party up to go down in flames in the fall.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: But he is really put because okay, so let me
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: finish my derivatives here. So so Paxton's nomination leads to
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: more Democratic money, all right, So what does that mean?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: The Senate Leadership Fund, which is the John Thune campaign
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: arm has to spend all this extra money into Texas
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is it two hundred million, three hundred million forum? Trust me,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a billion dollar Senate race.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying it's going to cost them a billion,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: but collectively we're going to see a billion. Right, North
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Carolina was already estimated to be close to a billion
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Paxton Tallerrico.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And this is Texas.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's all twenty eight markets, twenty nine markets,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: some ridiculous number of media markets the state has. This
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: is going to be colossally expensive. And it's by the way,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: let's not forget that the National Republican Senatorial Committee has
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: endorsed Cornant, has trashed Paxton, has sort of made sure,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not this isn't one of those oh
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: we're just endorsing our guy. They have gone after so
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: they have to do a one tot eighty. But here's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the thing they really you know, it all depends on
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: where your point of view is. And look, do I
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: wish politicians behaved ethically and morally the whole time? And
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you would say, you know what, despite my party, Ken
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Paxton's too unethical and moral to be a United States senator?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: That is I always I cover politics as it is,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: not as it should be. That is how politics should be.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Right that good people of America, regardless of party, saying
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Jesus chrime, I mean this Ken Paxton shouldn't be anywhere
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: near the public goal, should not have any sort of responsibility.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: This is not an ideological statement. It's not a partisan statement.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: This is a moral an ethical statement. But if it's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: a numbers game and you're the Republican Party, you want
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: to keep control of the Senate, well, Paxton can win,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: all right, Tall Rico can be Paxton, but he ain't
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: going to win by ten points. If he wins, we're
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: looking at a fifty one to forty nine you're looking at.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: This is not a state that is elected a Democrat
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: statewide since nineteen ninety four, and that Democrat was Gary
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Morrow for Land Commissioner. Okay, that's the last time. There
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: are probably some of you listening to this podcast who
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: were not born in nineteen ninety four. So this isn't
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: so it's so if you're the Republican you basically you're like,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: all right, it is. It's a numbers game. You can't
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: let that one go. So that money is going to
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: come from somewhere. Is Donald Trump going to spend it?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: You know, one thing about Donald Trump is he doesn't
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: necessarily spend money to help the party. He spends money
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to help him and whether he cares or not, who knows.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Does John Thune and Tim Scott play a game of
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: chicken with Trump and his political team and say, hey,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: you wanted this, you do Texas and let the Senate
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Republicans will handle Ohio and Iowa, at North Carolina, New Hampshire, Michigan, Georgia,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and Alaska. But if you if Trump does what I
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: suspect he might do, which is get a little flaky
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: with his political funds, which he's done before. Sometimes he
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: engages and sometimes he doesn't, it's going to fall on
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the on the back of the Senate Leadership Fund, and
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: they're gonna have to make some tough choices. Yes, they
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: have plenty of money, but they have plenty of money
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and an environment that had a Republican nominee in Texas
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that was that wasn't they didn't have the cooties, if
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you will, to put this in polite PG. Thirteen words,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: so that those recesses are going to be pulled from
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: somewhere probably is a bad sign for Michael Wattley in
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: North Carolina. Right that's the that's the biggest reach race
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: going right now for you know, and it's certainly Michelle
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Tafoy in Minnesota, who's probably trying to convince the National
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Party that it's worth investing. They're not gonna they They're
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: not going to be doing many experiments.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And does this mean.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: That that the targeting of Georgia is not as is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: not as aggressive because they don't have the money to spare.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Because when you start to look, if you're the Republicans,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you're playing defense. Now you're gonna go ahead and concede
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: North Carolina. You're not going to concede Maine. I mean,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I think that that Republicans think that the Graham that
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: they have a shot at making this a referendum more
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: on Platiner than Democrats do making a referendum on Collins.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And I will say this, I do think Democrats have
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: probably allowed this race to become too much about Platinner.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Perhaps that changes by the fall and we'll see, but
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that is it is. You know, you could look, I've
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: made the argument that Platner Collins looks like Trump Clinton
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to me from sixteen right, but just with the parties
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: reversed right, older establishment, longtime famous name versus news sort
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of as Charlie Cook likes to call them, exotic candidates
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that has a strange pass that doesn't seem who somehow
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: seems to have a layer of teflon where everything slips
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: off of him. So look, I think main they fight
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to the to the end. So look Alaska, Iowa, now
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Ohio is probably going to be more of a prior.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: But and then we'll see what happens in Michigan. I
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: think the one place on offense that Senate Republicans are
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: going to try to play probably no matter what, is Michigan,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: just because of how divisive. They have a strong nominee
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: in Mike Rodgers, and it looks like this Democratic primary
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: is just going to end in a divisive way that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: whoever's the winner, there's going to be a bitter wing
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of the party right, either the progressive wing is going
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: to be bitter or the establishment wing's going to better.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be It's not going to resolve
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: itself as well, frankly as platinirm.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Mills has resolved itself, so that that could get but
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: you're now here.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I mean this is going to become I think Texas,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: North Carolina and Ohio become this incredibly expensive, you know trio,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: which is why I think North Carolina is probably the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: odd odd one out there. So you look and the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: path holding the Senate for the Republicans, especially if Texas
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: becomes too expensive, then it makes Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, Maine.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: You know, they've got a they're going to have to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: win three of those four. And you know, and I
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: haven't even brought up Nebraska. I haven't even brought up Kansas.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I haven't brought up Mississippi. As you know, I'm bullish
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: on Mississippi because of this backlash in the Voting Rights Act.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I think there's something happening.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Down south that are auto And that's the other thing
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: when you're bringing up Texas. I mean, you know, one
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of the problems Democrats have had over the years is
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: funding a ground game. Well, look, there's a you know,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: in Texas. A lot of people like to talk about
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the Latino vote, but the African American vote is not
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: insignificant in Texas. And there was some concern after the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: somewhat divisive Tallerico Jasmine Crockett primary that maybe black voters
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be as enthusiastic about Taller Rico.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to be a problem anymore.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: And I do think that that makes Georgia that much
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: harder for Republicans to target. But the bottom line is
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is he is, you know, his attempts to
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: manipulate the party right, he thinks he's helping on the House,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: but how he's gone about it has only fired up
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Democrats in a midterm year where his side's not as
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: fired up. Then he's gone about as purging of the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: party of anybody that remotely is a free thinker inside
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party. And he's got he's sort of, like
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I said, a woke right leader.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Everything the Trump movement criticized the left doing, you know
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: is not letting you know, you know, not you know,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: being you know, being judge and jury and how you speak,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and they're not allowed to think to this and you're
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: not allowed to think that. That now is Donald Trump.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: He has taken everything that his movement criticized in sixteen,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the political incorrectness and all of that stuff, and he's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: created his own perverted form of political correctness inside the right.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And at some point somebody's going to figure out how
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to message against that. I'm inside the right wing coalition
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: in that way. Well, this episode of the Chuck Podcast
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• 35:05
  Speaker 1: just want to spend a few minutes. Given Barney frank
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: his due, longtime Democratic member of Congress from Massachusetts. He
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: was eighty six. He was born in New Jersey. He
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: served in Congress thirty two years, nineteen eighty one to
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. In his own memoir, he just to give
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: you a sense of sort of how he got involved
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: in politics. In his own memoir, he said he was
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: inspired he was drawn to public life after the after
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Emmett Tilt was lynched in Mississippi, and so in nineteen
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: sixty four he volunteered during Freedom Summer in Mississippi. Jewish
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: kid from New Jersey who became a gay rights icon,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: got his start in the civil rights movement in Mississippi.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Subs Lee.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Of course, he's most famous for writing the Dodd Frank
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Legislation to try to bring some guardrails to Wall Street
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: after the financial collapse in two thousand and eight. It
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: certainly has Dodd Frank has got plenty of people that
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: shoot arrows at it, but it has been remarkably sturdy
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: what they've passed. And obviously, given where the economy is today,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: given where markets are today, certainly whoever thought what they
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: were doing was going to harm markets and harm wealth
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: in America, well that didn't happen. But look the reason
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I think history is going to be a lot kinder
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to him than I think he was treated during his
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: life because he was a barrier breaker, right, and sometimes
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: barrier breakers never get to don't live to see the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: fruits of all the pain that they had to withstand now.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: He became the most prominent openly gay elected official in
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the country when he came out in nineteen eighty seven.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: He did so voluntarily and think about what it was
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: like to come out in nineteen eighty seven. Nineteen eighty
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: seven is the height of the AIDS crisis, so not
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: an easy moment. Just three years later he would get
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: reprimanded by the House and connection to a two year
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: relationship he had with a male prostitute that was living
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: in his basement in the House. There was a bunch
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: of Republicans wanted to vote to expel him. The House
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: voted to reprimand him rather than censure or expel him.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Frank had said that the pressures of hiding his sexual
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: orientation over the years had caused him to quote act stupidly.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: But his constituents had no problem with it, and they
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: sent him back to con Us with sixty six percent
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: of the vote. And I don't think folks fully appreciate
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: how much crap this that Barney Frank had to take
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: in Congress over the years. It is, you know, when
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: you think about, let me put it in this in
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: this respect, So he and new Gingridge used to spark
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: quite a bit New. The Republicans of the late eighties
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: and early nineties would use Barney Frank and his sexual
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: orientation as a cudgel, and they would try to weaponize
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: it nationally in different ways. Right, it was Gingridge that
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: was pushing to get him, you know, essentially over as
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Frank would put it, if it had have been a
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship, there wouldn't have been nearly this attempted outrage.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Right. So here's new Gingridge trying.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: To get Barney Frank expelled, and at the time that
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: he's trying to get him expelled, he's having his own
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: affair with an aid in his office. And it's I
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: think what made Barney Frank such a such a fascinating
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: figure because he was not going to cowtow. He was
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: not going to fall on his sword in order to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: make other people feel more comfortable. On one hand, he
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: knew what he did was wrong and that what he when,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: as he said, he acted stupidly. On the other hand,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I think he felt and he wasn't going to back down.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: He felt he was being essentially overly punished simply because
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: he was a gay man, and that had the exact
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: same scenario took place, but Stephen Gobee was a woman
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: instead of a man, he'd there wouldn't have even been.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: A vote to expel or anything like that.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: And then to really get a sense, right, we talk
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: about this with you know, it took the movie Jackie
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: during Jackie Robinson to sort of put people back into
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: the time in nineteen forty seven and forty eight and
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: forty nine and the words that would get shouted at
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson while he had to play baseball. It's something
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: nobody would you know what the black men of the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: fifties had to go through in public, playing professional baseball,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: going to towns and communities that were going to make
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: sure that they were constantly harassed, sometimes verbally abused. Well,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: that happened to Barney Frank in Congress, the House majority
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: leader in nineteen ninety five, Dick Army of Texas just
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: casually decided to refer to Barney Frank as Barney pack. Now,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Army claimed he misspoke quite a misspeaker, doing a lot
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: of work in that sentence. Now, he ended up apologizing
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: from the House floor. But it's probably worth noting that
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: that here he is sort of somebody says publicly, So
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: imagine in what Barney Frank's thinking, what are these people
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: saying about him behind the scenes, And yet he just
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: sort of went through, right, And he just sort of
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: powered through to come out in eighty seven. The cultural
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: backdrop wasn't just uncomfortable, it was actually threatening to do
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: what he did to come out in eighty seven. But
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: at the same time, he needed to give comfort to
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: other gay Americans who were suffering from a disease that
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the country wasn't focused enough on at the time. And
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Frank had to function daily in a building where Armi's
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: vocabulary was used against him probably all the time. We
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: just happened to hear it slip once in public. So
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: he took all of that. He stayed in the fight
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: for thirty two years, and the institution that tried to
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: censure him now has his name and the most important
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: piece of financial reform law in our nation's history. So
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: he didn't just survive politically, he thrived. And you know,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: even until his dying day, right, he's writing a book
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: sort of lecturing the left, if you will, and I
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: think he feels as if he's got a little better
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: standing than most. Right he was on the front lines,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: fighting for a group that wasn't getting a lot of
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: love in Washington at the time he started fighting, and
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: he uh, he's had a warning to the left, Hey
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: don't don't let mistest your yourselves into oblivion essentially is
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: his is his message. But I just wanted to take
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: a moment because I think I think Barney Frank is
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: one of those figures that will grow in importance, you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: with more time, and I think we don't fully appreciate
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: what he went through. Somebody had to, right, somebody has
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: to There are gay members of Congress on both sides
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: of the aisle. Now, you know, one thing, whatever you
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: think of Donald Trump, this has never usually.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Been an issue with him, right, This is just.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: And it just it just struck me that, you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'll say this, I always got smarter when I interviewed
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Barney Frank. He was a tough sob. It wasn't always
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: the wasn't the warmest and person all the time, but
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: man was he whipped smart. I got to know his
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: sister over the years, Anne Lewis, who is Clinton's communications director,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: and she's you know, it's it's very much a political family.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I think.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: The moment we're living in politically means nobody gets to
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: do that, maybe they deserve.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I think this is a case where he's.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: He's he's a he's a larger public figure than I
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: think he's going to get the benefit at the moment.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: But in due time, I think it'll come. All Right,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: let's get let's take the break. This episode of the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Chuck Toddcast is brought to you by Soul. So if
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  Speaker 1: am a customer ass Chuck. All right, let's do a
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: little last chuck before we enjoy the long weekend. This
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: one comes from Mark h and Alan Texas.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: He rights.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Hey, Chuck, just secured Pats Packers tickets. How's divided over here?
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about the national debt and how abstract
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: it feels. And I'm surprised we haven't heard more talk
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: about something as extreme as renigging on it. Is that
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: truly a bridge too far given the global consequences? Or
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: is it within the realm of scenarios you can imagine
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: being floated even rhetorically, wow, writing just basically ignoring the debt. Well,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: we've certainly seen other countries do that, right, What do
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: you think our creditors would do?
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Some of our creditors are in the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Some of our creditors, right are China, plenty of plenty
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: of sovereign wealth funds?
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I guess the problem if the United States did that?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: How does How is there a trusted global financial system period?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: So, No, I don't think we renig on it? Do
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: we refinance it? Do we print more money to pay
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: it down with cheaper dollars?
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Do we? I could see some of that, do we?
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I am pretty convinced that my generation, because it's so
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: small compared to the other compared to the boomers, and
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: compared to millennials, and compared to Gen Z and probably
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Gen Alpha, that will be the first generation to take
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: a to take a haircut on social security benefits? Now,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: what does that haircut look like?
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Right? Is it? Is it a small one? Is it?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: You know, ten percent less? But it's it's uh, I
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: think it.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that's more likely because we don't
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: have the we don't have the political voting power gen
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: X does too, that the boomers had, that millennials had
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: that gen Z has. So I think it's more likely
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: we shrink the safety net a bit before we go
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: to something that extreme. But I just think, I mean,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the entire global financial system collapses if if if somehow
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: we're if somehow we don't, if somehow we renig on debt. Right, So,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: but it is, you're right, it's to the point where
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: it's no longer feels like it hasn't felt like a
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: real number in a long time. But you know, we're
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: not We're not anywhere. And the only way we're going
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: to deal with this is when markets force us to
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: deal with this, and when the bond market says, you know,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: when suddenly people don't want to When when our interest
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: rates have to go up to eight, nine, ten percent
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: in order to convince people to buy our treasuries. That's
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: when that's when things would get catastrophic, and when when
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: you'd see some you know, we have plenty of plans
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: on the shelf of how to do this. I heard
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: a very good plan. It's a simple three percent solution.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: The compromises this. You cut three percent of spending and
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you raise taxes, and you and you and you raise revenue,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: which is taxes by three percent.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Right you just you know, you.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: There there is a dollar for dollar thing that you
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: could do that probably politically is the only way you
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: could pull it off. If you're going to do it,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: if you're ever going to do spending cuts, you're not
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: going to do it without taxikes. You know, we have
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: we have got to stop fighting wars and cutting taxes
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: at the same time. If you want to know why
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: this has grown astronomically, that's the answer. The fact that
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: it has not been that it was just totally fine
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: with everybody that we did the war in Iraq and
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Afghanistan and cut taxes. Wars are expensive, they should be
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: one time costs, but we never asked the country to
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: participate in that. Instead, we tried to do a tax cut.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: And we wonder why we're in the situation we're in.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Matthew and Evanson Illinois writes, Hey, I've been listening since
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: the two thousand and four conventions. Wow, and I'm increasingly
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: concerned about gerrymandering and whether there's any real off ramp.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's ever a scenario where states like
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: California and Texas coordinate reforms perhaps are going to create
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: a set number of competitive districts at the same time,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: or is that kind of mutual draw down just to
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: unrealistic in today's environment. Thank you, Matthew and Evanston Illinois. Look,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I keep coming back to that. The daytant here is
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: to expand the House, and I know I'm going to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: go down that rabbit hole, and if you're going to
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: ask me questions about jerry mandering, I'm going to continue
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: to promote the idea of expanding the House. I think
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: that is right. What is the real problem? People feel underrepresented?
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: What's the best way to improve underrepresentation? To get more representation?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: The reason go read Madison's argument about expanding the size
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: of the House of Representatives as the population grows. It
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: was simply so that there was more direct represent so
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: that every faction of the American public had some representation
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: here in Washington, and what jerry mandering does is actually
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: deny that very founding founding father belief. Right, This is
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: un You know, We've got plenty of friends who call
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: themselves Madisonian Conservatives. Well if you're if you want to
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: claim to be one, then you need to be for
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: expanding the size of the House. I ultimately believe that
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: this is it is looking we either do that, maybe
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you've got to right size, you know, I think, you know,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: plenty of people think the Senate is is sort of
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: becoming more and more sort of undemocratic because of you know, Wyoming.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Wyoming's two senators only become more powerful as California and
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Texas grow and their senators become weaker. But you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: not only is California and Tennis in Texas punished in
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: the Senate with political power, but they're now being punished
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: in the House. So if I were California in Texas collectively,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: they're underrepresented in the House of Representatives based on their population.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: They're the two largest states, and in fact there are
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: four largest states. Two happen to be blue, two happened
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: to be red, California, Texas.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Florida, New York.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: The four of them ought to be arguing for more
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: House seats to represent their pot all of them the
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: state those states are under represented in the House of
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Representatives and underrepresented in the US Senate. I don't think
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: we're going to be able to change, you know, two
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: senators each for every state anytime soon. They can go
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: to move to some tiered system where large states get
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: more senators than small states. But there's all it takes
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: is an act of Congress to uncap the House. So
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: you know, that's one way I could picture the two states,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: because politically they just.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Don't have enough in common.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Right, even if you have a democratic governor, they're just
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: going to be culturally different, all those things. But where
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: all four states I think do have shared interest here
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is all of them are underrepresented in the House of Representatives.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: And maybe and.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm look I am fully admit here, right, I
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: do two things. Now, I cover politics as it is,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: and I want to promote politics as it should be.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And in this case, in my attempt to promote this
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: idea better, maybe going to the big states and letting
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: them know, hey, you're underrepresented. It is not fair to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: your own constituents. What's happened to the House. The Senate
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: was designed to be this way, the House was not.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I'm trying. Thanks for the question.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Matthew Andrew writes, what are Democrats supposed to do right now?
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Voters often see them as weak check but when they
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: push back more aggressively, like in the redistricting fights, they're
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: criticized for being two partisan.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Also true, is this just.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Damned if you do, damned if you don't, situation or
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: is there a clear path they should be taking?
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Andrew.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Well, you're right, Like I've always said that, you know,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and you've heard me say this. You know, some people
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: think I'm too hard. I'm harder on Democrats than I
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: am Republicans, and I'm like, well, the Democrats are promising
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: to hold a higher standard, so you know, I'm just
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: holding you to the standard you want to you said
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you wanted to set. So I think that's you know,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: like like this redistricting thing, you were the party of
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: fairness until you weren't. Right now, I understand, you know,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and there's this frustration on the left that, you know,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Republicans do this all the time. Yeah, but they don't
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: come out and claim that they're going to be anything else.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: This is where I can come across a little pollyannish Andrew.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I just think over time, doing what's right and standing
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: on a set of principles will eventually be the right
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: thing to do, will eventually be good strategy.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Now that doesn't mean you don't you know.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I think what I might suggest is that they got
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: to get tougher in their critiques while still being the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: adult in the room. And I guess that's the balance.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I think they need to figure out how to strike,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: you know, I will say this if there is I
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: think the fairest critique of Democrats falls into this idea
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: that there's almost too many lawyers involved in the Democratic Party,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: too many elected officials or lawyers. And when you are
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: a lawyer, you're you're sort of taught that there's always
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: that there's rules to follow, and that that you can
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: sort of right or wrong via a court order or
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: a judicial decree or something like that, rather than and
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: this is where they probably need to have a few
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: more emotionally driven candidates.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: It may be why what makes a Grand Platiner appealing
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: is that he's just not speaking like a lawyer, right,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: And and what makes Bernie Sanders appealing is he doesn't
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: speak like a lawyer versus you know, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and you know sometimes you know would would come up
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: you know there, you know, they would make their technical argument,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: but it was like but it was lacking something right,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: whatever was appealing on that. I guess what I would
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: say is is that is it goes to the right
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: the famous Bill Clinton saying, you know, voters are always
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: going to be more attracted as strong and wrong than
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: we can right.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Can you be strong and right? Right?
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: That's the balance you got to try to do. Can
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: you be strong and right? Can you say, ah, you
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: dumb and effort, that's a stupid way to do things.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: And this is what we're going to do. So it's
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: maybe don't bog yourself down in length. I do think
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that many a democratic politician wants to explain too much.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: And I think it goes back to just especially if
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: you if you sort of see yourself as a rule follower,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: and if you get if you study in the law,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you're studying with the rules, right, and so in that sense,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, I get what you're asking, Uh,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: it's a it's on one hand, it's a fair that
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: some of the it does feel as if it's a
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: it's in an unfair situation. But I think it's more
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: of the attitude that it's taken right, don't be defensive
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: about it, lean into it, and be a bit more
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: robust in your in the language. So you know, I
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: think I think you can speak with more strength and
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: still stick to principles. So again, little little Pollyannish on
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: my front, but that's what I'd like to see. I
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I almost behave like you're an independent and have nothing
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: to lose, right. I do think the problem the Democrats
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: have right now is that they're still too worried about
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: what certain constituency groups think, and they're still too worried
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: that if they say something the wrong way, even though
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: that won't offend the swing voters, it will affect a
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: certain constituency group or a donor, and that gets them
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: all caught up.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: It's sort of a Look, this is the Republicans now
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: have their version of this in Donald Trump, right. He
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: is the super sensitive, you know, interest group that can't
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: handle any you know, oh you said it the wrong way.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's going to be mad, be very careful, right tiptoe.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: And I think in some ways democrats, you know, and
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that's you know, that's how you get more aggressive, is
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: to sort of point out how they can't you think
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: for yourself anymore in the same way.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: You know, it's sort of so.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Be aggressive, but it doesn't mean you have to to
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: not stick to principal tactics.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: John from New Jersey rights, Hey, I followed you since
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: you meet the press days and always appreciate your insight.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: With recent primary dynamics and Trump back candidates gaining ground,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: is there any realistic scenario where Republicans like Bill Cassidy
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: or John Corny and break ranks in a meaningful way?
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: And if that were to happen, could it actually impact
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: center control or create new guardrails on presidential power?
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Curious how you see that playing out? Thanks?
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Johnny, forty year old farmer from New Jersey, never missed podcast. Yes,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: folks need to know that. You know, you may know
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: New Jerseys as Newark, and you know a suburb of Philadelphia,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: in a suburb of New York. There's a big part
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: of Jersey that's farm country, some beautiful farms.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Anyway, appreciate the question, John.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: And so I'll give you a scenario that I think
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: is very realistic that sort of falls into what you're
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: looking at, and it involves Lisa Rakowski. She's not up
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: until twenty eight. Right now, she is part of the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Republican majority. She's an independent who coxes with the Republicans, right,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: and Gus King is an independent who.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Coxes with the Democrats.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Let's say Democrats win North Carolina, Maine, and Alaska, but
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: they come up short in Texas, they come up short
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Ohio, and the results fifty to
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: fifty Republican to have the majority, right, Jade Vance would
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: break the time. Is Lisa Murkowski going to stick with
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: the Republicans. Lisa Murkowski has made it clear that she's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: you know, she can't be count on one hundred percent
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: of the time, and she cares about what her state
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: does if her state makes the decision that they want
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: a Democratic senator. Lisa Murkowski again, who's in theory up
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: in reelection for twenty eight most of us, most people
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: don't believe she's going to seek reelection.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe she does, but let's.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I can picture her saying, my state voted for a
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Democratic senator, which tells me they want the Democrats to
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: control the Senate. I'm going to organize and caucus with
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the Senate Democrats, who have graciously said I can be
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: the Senate, keep my keep my gavel, being natural resources,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: you know, et cetera. I don't think that's an unrealistic thing.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I will tell you another movement that I that i'm
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: uh a know about and would like to see where
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: there's I do wish that there were about five or
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: six senators who would be a bit cross partisan about
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: it and demand certain rules changes, sort of agree to vote,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: you know, withhold their support for either caucus without certain
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: significant rules changes, whether it's on the filibuster, whether it's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: on judicial blue slips, whether it's on committee things, and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: sort of make the parties court the folk rum right,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: make the two. Make the Brian Schatz, who's likely to
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: be the leading, you know, the candidate that's organizing the Democrats.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I have a feeling Schumer is not going to be
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: if Democrats win the Senate, is not going to be
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: the majority leader. I think he's gonna I think there's
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: gonna be enough pressure to him to say you know,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: here's your gold watch. You were terrific. Thank you for
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: an incredible run. But it's time for a generational handover here.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: And so I'm assuming it's Brian Shatz and John Thune,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: and if they had to court a group of four
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: or five senators versus them, just you know, you know,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: maybe we get a better functioning Senate.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe we get something that feels as if.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Swing voters who helped decide control actually have a little
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: more skin in the game than they do now. But
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I think certainly you're going to have till Us,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Corning and Cassidy, you know, because they're not going to
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: be there. But I'm thinking the question you're asking to
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: me is more about how will these senators behave in
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: twenty seven And I think there's Murkowski others that I
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: would keep an eye on the Republican side of the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: aisle that may not be comfortable with how Trump conducts
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: business and who may be willing to work with Democrats.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Todd Young of Indiana, Jerry Moran of Kansas, John Curtis
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: of Utah, and of course Lisa Murkowski. That's probably a
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: pretty good place to start. Our last question comes from
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Michael t in Chicago, and he says, Hey, you often
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: say Democrats shouldn't fight fire with fire, But I wonder
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: how that advice resonates with people who feel directly impacted
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: by policy decisions in very personal ways. For many issues
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: like healthcare, bodily autonomy, identity, and safety aren't abstract their
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: deep lived experiences. Do you think that perspective changes how
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: we should think about tone and strategy and politics, and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: how can leaders balance maintaining standards of conduct while also
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: addressing the urgency and the emotion behind those concerns?
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: A very fair question.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's easy for me to be theoretical
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: if something that isn't being taken away from a right
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: isn't being taken away from me at the moment right now?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Who my right?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Somebody hasn't come at one of my rights. In my head,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: of course, I believe that if someone's coming for one
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: of your rights, you know, I might be next. And
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: that's I usually how most Americans used to rally around
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: things like this. So all I would say is I
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: understand the emotional response, but you have to have what
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: how are you going?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: In order in order to enact power you have to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: get power. And that's why there is a reasonable argument
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: for the fight fire with fire. Hey, well, look, we
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: want to do good things. If they're not going to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: even get us a seat at the table, we got
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: to fight, like how to find a way to seat.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: At the table.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: I take that point, but I don't think anything gets
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: done unless we have a durable majority. And I think
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: that ultimately, Unfortunately, progress in this country happens both fast
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: and slow. Right when you look backwards, progress can look fast.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: When you're in the moment, it can feel super slow.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I did it, you know that's I mean, just look
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: at the gay rights movement. It felt like it was going,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it was never going to break through, and
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it all breakthrough. And it
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: was one of those where incremental progress eventually led to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: a hockey stick moment. You always have to have one
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: eye on the long game. And that's and so I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: think that I understand that for some this feels like
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: a you know, hair on fire moment, and I'm not
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: saying it isn't in certain particularly with certain.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Issues, but.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Responding this way doesn't succeed even if you have a
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: short term victory. It's so narrow that it's not a
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: governing majority. And ultimately, what's it going to take to
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: have durable change. It's a governing majority, and in order to
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: get a governing majority, you're going to have to make,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: you know, just enough compromises. Look, I'm I'm very intrigued
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: by what Mark Carney's doing in Canada. He wants a
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: durable majority, so he you know, I'm not you know,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: he shifted the party's priorities, you know, a bit to
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: the towards the center, and in doing so attracted a
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: larger coalition, which gave him more stability to govern, a
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: stiffer spine to confront Trump if necessary. And he's suddenly
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: turning in the most successful labor prime minister we've seen
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: in Canada and quite some time. I think there can
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: be I think there's something to learn from what Carney's
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: doing up there. But I understand the spirit of your question,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: and I get it emotionally. I'm just I just, you know,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: and I know it sounds like super fair. I just said,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: long game, you know, do this. You know, there's not
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: I don't have a concrete plan. The concrete plan is
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: just to more awareness, more people need to understand the
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: lived experiences that people have, because the more people see
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and hear and feel those lived experiences, the more likely
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: they're actually going to understand why these rights shouldn't be
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: taken away. It's one of the lessons for me that
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: I take away from the gay rights movement over time,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: the greatest impact was just people's lived experiences, and that
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: took something that we thought was never going to happen,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: and now we can't believe it took.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Us so long to get her.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: All right with that, jo the long weekend, and i'd
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: have and I look, look, I have a pretty pretty
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: interesting Memorial Day special podcast that we that I have
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: a fascinating interview, can't wait to share it. So I'll
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: have more to say about Memorial Day on Memorial Day and.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: With that, I'll see in seventy two hours. Enjoy your weekend.