Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 28. The Importance of Trauma-Informed Spaces with Adria Moses

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28. The Importance of Trauma-Informed Spaces with Adria Moses · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Legacy maker, have you been in a space where you've said to yourself, Oh wow, I'm the only woman or I'm the only person of color or I'm the only minority.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And as a first-gen immigrant, woman of color, I've been in that space so many times, unfortunately.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are a service provider, here's a harder question.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Are you holding a safe and transformative space for both yourself and others, also known as trauma-informed spaces?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know that as a woman of color, I have lived experiences.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: While at the same time, being a business and career coach for women of color and allies, I had to humble myself and realize I needed more tools in my toolbox.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so happy I got to hire and work with my mentor, Adria Moses of the School of Radical Healing, to learn how to be more trauma-informed, to be better, be a better coach, human mentor.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've already made changes in how I coach my clients by being mindful of my language while using somatics and love that I learned from Adria.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in this episode, both Adria and I share vulnerably or different intersectionalities, where Adria shares her personal experience being biracial and having an autoimmune illness.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I share my experience as a first-gen immigrant and Asian American.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because our ancestors sacrificed so much so we can have this life of choice.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, grab your coffee, tea, andor boba, and let's call your dreams to create your legacy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey legacy makers.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have been waiting for this episode to happen.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I am excited to introduce to you the woman who is just like literally has changed my life, Adia Moses, who is a trauma-informed facilitator.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have been so blessed, honored, and humbled that I have been one of Adria's students through her trauma-informed certification programs.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I told Aja before we hit record, I was like, I'm gonna say so much to you, but I can't because I want it to be recorded.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, AJ, I want you to genuinely know you have changed my life.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big statement.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big statement.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm not putting pressure.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because it's already happened.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like you have to change more of it.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a big and bold statement.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been in business for almost five years now.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you have by far influenced just the way I am, not even as a business owner, but as a human.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big I received that statement.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I received that because I feel like that's always the goal.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're affirming me right now.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for for that for real.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not just a podcast episode where I'm dropping like love bombs to Adria.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what is this?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: What did I get myself into?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to, but I just, I mean, how much I respect you, admire you, love you, and really talking about the importance of being trauma informed.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Adria, anything you want to share with your past experience, skills, and backgrounds before we delve deep?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, in terms of how we connected, obviously, to the program, the trauma-informed approach to creating safe spaces.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I do like to share with people like where I became informed, at what point in my like work did I decide to go get this education?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I was building a yoga program in Detroit for a nonprofit youth program, and they were looking for mindfulness, and I had a lot of support.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the requirements was that I become trauma-informed.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I had been practicing yoga for about four years at this point, on and off, and it was doing something for me, but I didn't have the language of what it was doing.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't necessarily feel safe in the spaces I was in.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't necessarily feel like I belonged, but my body was responding to the practice.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the requirements for that program was that I get a trauma-informed education.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I went and did something very similar to what you did.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I found a trauma-informed, it was a weekend and it was very short.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it taught me all about like the brain and like how it's interacting with the body and the nervous system.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't learn about the vagus nerve for a couple years later, but it opened up a lot of of my mind and a lot of doors to what can like holding space look like for people?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: What does it really mean to serve communities that are most impacted?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And also, what is a trauma-informed training or program?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like also going to the origin of like where was what I learned healthy for me?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a healthy environment?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did it address the things that impact people in the margins?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: It missed a lot of those markers, but it exposed me to a world that I otherwise wouldn't even have known about.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then my past experience, my personal experience with a chronic illness, you know, surviving narcissistic abuse, childhood abuse, surviving the Crohn's disease in and of itself, that's added a layer of lived experience to the expertise.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to, I think that's really the thing I like to share the most because I do have a unique, I like to think a unique approach to what trauma-informed space is and what it can look like, you know?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And similarly for those listening, like, what is trauma-informed?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've probably heard of it because it's like a sexy term.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're not trying to get you sexy, guys, unless you want to, that's cool.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like really talking about the the depth of it.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And shout out to my former client, Nicole Cruz, for like referring me to you.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And because she gave me some feedback, like, oh, you know, you probably should look at language.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and similar to you, not through yoga, though.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've been coaching for five years.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, through my own lived experiences, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know how to be there and I serve women of color and allies, but I've been in this space for five years where I knew there was something missing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I had to go deeper.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't about finding more solutions and strategies.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: There was something else, like I knew I hold how to hold space well, but how can I hold it better?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't like uh, I want to add a new bachelor's, master's, or PhD.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's more so like, how can I go deeper into my practice?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Adrian, I show up so much differently with my clients, and it feels so full and fulfilling knowing that I'm holding space and even detaching from like we need to know all the solutions.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because as we've learned from you and as we've learned from the book, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: The body keeps score, like the answers are within us.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just not the answers, it's just to share.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love when you I love when you speak to it's it's going a layer deeper, it's transcending all of the other kind of all of the things you've collected.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also feel like when you're serving people for a long period of time, you know, our foundational educations, you know, the things that you're speaking to, those will only sustain us for so long.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, you need something that is like, what is really gonna support this from the inside out?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to also think of being informed as like a sustainable practice because I'm sure you feel more like equipped and more like excited about the future as well, because you're able, you're actually enjoying what you're doing and you feel more fully present.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if if nothing else that people take from the work, it's that there's a lot of times people want to intellectualize it, they want it to be something that they can deploy or like educate others on, but really it's this unspoken kind of I don't even know really the word for it, dance or communication.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it is spoken literally through language, but you go into sessions, we go into sessions knowing there's more confidence to like whatever comes up in this session, I'm equipped to handle it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm equipped to be there for the other person.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also, this is what kind of life is all about to me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like to really be connected to others, to really listen and yeah, give feedback if they if they want it, if they need it.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think about my own coaching, you know, where I'm at before I even worked with you, where it's being present because the unfortunate thing we're hit up on social media, we're seeing like all the sales, marketing, like the scaling up, the taking out the person that was leading, bringing other people.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think what misses, whether it is the leader or the team, it's are you being present and really listening?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there's are you really there?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really there and listening.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so important.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: It it just really has reframed it for me.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm going into love fast of how much I love Adria, but I wanted to kind of bring it back just in case people don't know.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: What does trauma-informed even mean?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So from the radically linked perspective, we serve those who are most impacted by current, past, oppressive states, institutions, practices.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: We do that through somatics, love, and language.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So to be informed, it means a few things.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I actually did a whole thread on Twitter about it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's an awareness of people's financial access.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of like a core principle of like knowing kind of where you need to create equity and access and making that a priority.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Being trauma-informed means you benefit the whole.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So even within like scaling up and all of these things, it's like, yeah, how is this benefiting my community?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: How is it benefiting the whole?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, means that you're aware of, you know, different access points.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell people, you don't need to know someone's trauma to treat them in an informed way.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people might think like being informed means like you're politically correct.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You always never make mistakes.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, quite the contrary.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: We are open and vulnerable and we're willing to make mistakes, and we're also willing to take accountability for it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really, really crucial because being trauma-informed, you have to be able, you're not gonna know everything, and you need to be able to learn from people around you.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that leads me to another point is that becoming trauma-informed, you can go to a space, but if it doesn't reflect the world, like what the world looks like.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Some people call that diversity, some people call it inclusivity.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I believe this inherently belongs to those who are most impacted.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So why aren't the spaces looking like us?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: What is happening?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't believe that it's only money.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like a beautiful thing of running, you know, school ground feeling is I get to kind of debunking these ideas of what we're traditionally used to.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I will also say like being informed is it is choosing language wisely.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's being aware of how your words impact others, how your tone impacts others, how your delivery, all of those things impact others.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure when you Google it, there's like a definite definition.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one that I have, you know, I've learned from.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: But as I've grown, I'm like being trauma-informed is many things and it encompasses many things.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if you're aware of what's going on in the world, you're aware most like what's impact better, but it's an awareness for sure.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's an extra lens for sure.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Here's takeaways I got from what you shared.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm in another like call with you, just learning.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what happens when you're around AGI is when going deeper with your clients.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't mind being global and sharing like experiences, but like asking the question are you going deeper with your clients?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are you being present and giving them what they want?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: This happened.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there was so much transformation that I went through when I was working with you, where I was like, wait, hold on.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: When I do events, do my clients really need a photographer and videographer?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are they safe to actually show up as themselves?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what I want to share with you, Aja, as being my mentor, on Sunday, I did my one-day retreat with three clients.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I shared with them, there's no photographer, videographer, come as you are.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wearing a crop top and prana pants and sneakers.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't hire like a makeup artist to do like my fancy makeup.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just did my own.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, and even throughout the retreat, my clients are like, I felt like I could be more myself.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I felt really safe.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have to worry, I didn't have to feel like I'm on because everything feels so performative because of the social media world.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: But that was like a really humbling experience.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is this what's needed?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm like dissecting and even looking under the layers of my business where I'm like, do my clients see this or was I sold into this?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how is the constructs of capitalism in here?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: That literally makes me beam because that's literally here's the thing it's not gonna stop your income.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna, it still happens.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I always tell people like a lot of what happens at the school of radical healing never makes it to social media.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to our social media, you're not really seeing what's happening at the school, you're not in our sessions with us.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: People may not even believe that it's really happening, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it happened, and those three people are gonna go tell other people about that and and so on and so forth.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't stop anything.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: You keeping them safe and prioritizing their well-being and also their experience, like they had an improved experience, which means like you made more of an impact.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're gonna word of mouth is always gonna be the strongest marketing out there.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, okay, and you still got a photo where it's like they were happy to still share that, you know, and it's organic.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that because I do feel like I agree with you, social media has taken out so much of our humanity, so much of the humanity that it's really happening, that this work is really happening, that you're really in it.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I love to hear that because that's healing work.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: You get to really feel like you belong.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like they said, I can really be myself, I can come as I am, I don't have to perform.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we have to do that all the time.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it feels good to not, and to have someone offer that is feels even better.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I love that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it also I need to call myself in because I mean it's what I saw, it's what I was taught.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not blaming people I've worked with before, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say you have helped me understand how to deepen being a coach and being present.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where I used to, I hired people to come to my event to do social media pictures, even like take pictures of things, or like when people are crying, that's a great shot.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And now I look back, I was like, Elaine, that is disgusting.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe like I had that because that's what I thought.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: We right, we want to show, look at me, I'm around 20, 100 people, everybody wants to work with me, like FOMO.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that is so not one safe.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then really getting back to the why did I why did I become a coach in the first place?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you doing this in the first place?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and my mission is to support and guide women of colour and allies to create a more sustainable and equitable future.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes back to the the value piece.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing you shared the reflections, a space of diversity.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're going deep in vulnerable, and Asia held really great space for me where I was acknowledging I was at the time not in a space where it was safe.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't with Asia, let me make it clear.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was very safe with Asia and the cohort I was with.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was incredibly diverse.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was the opposite of where it was, but I was in a space where I was literally the only woman of color and things were stated and said, And it made me feel uncomfortable.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is before, and I'm an Asian American and there's this complex of like model minority.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Model minority is like being quiet, hushing, not saying anything, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I am not that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So shared my feedback and then also not attached to the results of how the other people were gonna take it, and acknowledging I don't want to continue being in a container where I don't feel safe, even though I have paid for it, and honoring that and not worried about like, oh, I feel bad.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I feel bad that they're gonna be upset with me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, hold on.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to do.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Agency.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: What is agency for those that don't know what it is?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Agency is really the the feeling that you have, like in terms of the control you have over your life.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone has different age, everyone has different agency, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like kids have very little agency unless they're being raised by very liberated parents, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: But like kids in our society, they have very limited agency.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: We make choices for them, they don't have rights until they're 18.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that that, you know, Elaine shared throughout, because that really you being in that container, I think I don't know if it was already started or it started after you joined the School of Radical Healing, but that was a process for you, for you to recognize and for you to kind of almost create a strategy for yourself to safely give feedback, to yeah, not care essentially around.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: But and I talked about this today, I got on social media a little bit because I've I have had some experiences in my work trying to serve all of everyone in the margins, right?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which even me, I can't.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have all identity, I'm not embodying all identities.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna miss markers myself, but all white spaces are inherently violent for people of color.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not because they want to be, not because anyone chooses for them to be.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is literally, it's just inherent.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You giving feedback, you even provide like that to me is like it's such a big paid for it, you know.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where's my money?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your labor, it's your emotional labor, but really, I think I've in all the spaces I've been in, they've been predominantly white.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've been, you know, black enough.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm not too black for people, and I'm I'm not, you know, but I'm I'm ambiguous.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the same as like a model minority, there's the the privileges that live with being light skinned, being half white as a black person.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things came up in the spaces I was in, and and very similar to you, where I would have visceral responses of should I give my feedback?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Am I safe to give my feedback?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, and I've been called aggressive, hostile, I've been called all types of things when I have shared, when I have shared, and that's the thing about kind of navigating space, especially when it is predominantly white.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and I think calling it for what it is is another thing.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not easy, but it's something that it's like we have to face.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's I've heard a lot of somatic and trauma informed trainings that be like three people of color in it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, what's going on with like the disorder?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dispersement of the thing.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So diversity, even the word diversity for me is like, I always put it in quotations because it's like the container should represent the world.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard sometimes to find containers.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe that whatever you were engaging in was like a very specific program, and like you couldn't find a person of color that did something like that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's another, that's another access mode.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Diane, that's another thing that we have to solve somehow.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I am I'm just gonna be real and honest, right?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I am very jealous of my clients.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by that, they have me, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have another fellow woman of color ally.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I work with women of color and allies, and it's like the compliment and putting air quotes that I receive, and it's also healing for them.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's so nice to see someone that looks like me.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just so nice, right?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I see it in this space in like the coaching online business space.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, sure, I see some woman of color, but to even the mentorship I've gotten from you, it's like, but I want that leader to be present with me.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's like this and and this is this is like to this whole space.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, I'm so big now, right?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here, go work with another group of people, or it's like go through a course.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and my question to that, and that's fine, but like, are they really being present and listening to me?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I care about, listening and going deep.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the notion of like, how can you get out of your business?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's fine if that's what you want to do, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also like you have agency and choice of how you want to create your business.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when I even have clients telling me, okay, how do I go one-to-one to group?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I like one-to-one, I was like, if you want one-to-one, respect that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you want to do.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are we following?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: What standards are we following?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who is who's making because one thing that the school radical healing teaches, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of the work we're doing and that we're talking about, even with like clients, and you know, I have a one-to-one program too.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't promote it a lot.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: But and the thing I stress in there as well is that's the surface stuff.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, those are like the results you get.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing your disposition is different from my disposition.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just that someone looks like you, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just that someone is a person of color, but you know, it's even like compatibility in a in a lens of like how they speak, right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're drawn to me for a certain reason, right?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm drawn to you for a certain reason.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm drawn to certain practitioners, not just because how they look, but how they speak, how they relay certain things, all of that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: All of it matters.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say this like someone else's seven to ten business days is another person's like three to five business days.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone has different capacity.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's and it's interesting because the more intersectional you are, the more nuanced that gets.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Where you have special, you have needs that need to be met.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're speaking to.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you're like, I need that coach to be present, I need that coach to represent me to some extent.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: These are our needs, and they're vital if we're gonna really like make the most of our investment.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I feel is like I want people to make the most out of what they're investing at, the school around healing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that is my my largest goal.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I do that?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time it's like rooted in keeping the container.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like the word diverse, I just the word diverse keep coming out, and I'm just like, it's not even that because it's not it's not anything I'm doing like on purpose necessarily, it's more so like this is just the I want this to be the standard.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: You get what I'm saying?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like this should just be standard.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it was just this is so unfortunate, I have to say this.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: In my five years in business where I'm hiring mentors, it was the first space where it was like majority diverse.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: There were allies in there, which is great, but it was majority diverse because those are the spaces I had.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I get compliments all the time.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am for those that can't see me, I am Asian.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like, oh wow, it's really diverse.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we got all skin tones, all you know, backgrounds and experiences.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I pride myself in that because there's so much learning and healing and understanding.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you break away and unlearn the biases that we've created from another group.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and I will share this has happened a couple of times to me, where I have given feedback, you know, I don't even feel safe sharing the real struggles I go through.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because through my experience as a business coach for Women of Color and Allies, they're not just coming to me for Elaine, help me make money, help me like get my life back.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, sure, that's like like the surface level stuff, but there's deeper stuff like the, oh my gosh, I am the only woman of color like asking investors for money right now.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or like this happened to one of my other clients where this white man came up to me and thought I was the wife of the business owner when I'm the business partner.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was so mad and upset.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do I have these discussions?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and I didn't feel safe.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why diversity is important.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was sharing and giving feedback.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel safe sharing challenges that I have as a woman of color.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's fascinating when folks aren't educated and they're like, Well, you should share.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: You educate us this way.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm not responsible, I'm not responsible to educate.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I mean.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, your clients are coming in with like their reality, and that is, I can't stress it enough.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like most of the time, if not all of the time, people are enduring a lot at the hands of supremacy, living under whiteness, living under the white gaze, living under patriarchy.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So always acknowledging the systems that be, because then we replicate the systems, and especially at the job, especially at work, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because what are the what's the origin of work in the United States of America?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be honest, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do you have those conversations?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do you have, how do you hold space for that and validate that is crucial.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And even when we're speaking, it's like allies, diversity.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there were people of color and black people, and there were some white people in the, you know, that's how I would say that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to point out like language around even that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I want people to know, I want to stress this just because it's on my mind.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I get DMs all the time around, like, you know, I wanna, I want to be respectful.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a white person or white adjacent, or, you know, and I want to know if it's safe for me to come into this space.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: One, if you're asking the question, I think like you might be ready to come into the space.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: You are you're practicing an awareness.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is that we need to see that it's possible, and this is not an exclusion or uh or a BIPOC only space, it's BIPOC centered, meaning that the majority will be people of color and black people, it will not be what you're used to seeing.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you're not welcome.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You just are you'll be the minority in the group.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for white people, I think it's a great opportunity to really, if you've done a lot of anti-racism work, if you're really moving in the embodiment of anti-racism and you're really ready to take it to another level, I feel like, yeah, the school of radical healing is a place for you because it's going to challenge also your biases and how you see space and how space can be made and what it feels like to be in a space and kind of hear about some things, you know, about your, you know, about what's going on.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's healthy.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to say that I don't know why.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I do know why my mind went there because we're talking about diversity, but it's really important to also understand that diversity is just that, it's all encompassing.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really big on that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I pride myself on that as well.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's futuristic and I think it's necessary to operate that way.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's healing, right?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when I first started my business, I niched with first generation millennials, and then it went to woman of color and similar experience, and I could share this publicly because they've shared it publicly.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica Shruk, who's been one of my clients for three years, non-binary white, messaged me, hey, I know you serve women of color, but do you know a white coach that I could work with?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was laughing.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Monica, like that's my niche.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and for you to ask that question, I know you are a perfect fit.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like having white people in my group containers with majority of women of color has been so healing for both parties, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Especially since 2020.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so much anger, like they don't understand, they don't know.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: But to see someone willing to hear, learn, and understand, it's just it's so healing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see that, you're like, wow, and that's why your work is so important, AJ.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, gosh, if we could just have conversations, like real, honest, conscious conversations.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you think of the future, it makes you think of change.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that I don't know if we ever gonna see it or like I stay dedicated, I stay dedicated to that because I feel like that is what the space offers me as well.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So much of what you're speaking to.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I, you know, we're going into the eighth cohort in the fall, and every time I go into a cohort and I get to see the space, and I also want to say, like, you have to create access in order to make this possible.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to say that, like, it has not been by mistake that that these spaces have been how they've been, and I'm just motivated very much so, to keep the containers in that way, but also to welcome all kinds of people so that we can see that it's possible.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be able to see it, we have to be able to hold space.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Turbulence, let me just say this: like in the container at the school round cling, it's not all peaches and and and cream up in there.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's definitely not, it's not like nothing ever becomes uncomfortable, or you know, and I know I've made mistakes.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have, you know, across the past few years, but being able to just be amongst people with common lived experiences or proximity to what you it just like reminds you, like, oh my God, like I can do this, I can get through life.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can, I'm purposeful.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: These people are purposeful.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there is a new the world is ending in a lot of ways, but it's beginning in a lot of ways.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very I like to think of the school real school of radical healing as a little futuristic, it's a little bit futuristic.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: It likes to think of the future a lot, you know.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's happening right now.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's already creating like a revolution.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is happening, but I'm like, it's it's meant to pave that so we can get there.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I want to get there.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like so, especially women, we work so hard, and that's another quality of of the school is just like how do we preserve ourselves in the midst of like trying to impact change?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a huge part.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we really preserve, you know?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really, really huge because I came from the nonprofit sector.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you that have had the nonprofit sector, it's like one of my one of my clients said this, a white woman, she was like, the nonprofit sector is basically sneaky capitalism.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally what it is.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I wholeheartedly agree.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's it's like, oh, you really are here for the mission, stay longer hours, you know.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're here for the passion of it, like no boundaries, like like a little pay.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, how do you then honor the boundary?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know people are saying, I know you agree with me from the statements you shared, like, God, it's tough in our country right now.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, you know what's happening?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: People are waking up.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think the pandemic has been a gift being stuck at her home, really asking ourselves real deep questions, like, are we happy?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are we fulfilled?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, that's why we're seeing the great resignation changes happening individually, or people are leaving jobs or starting businesses, whatever it is, transitioning to the fabric of our nation and culture.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually beautiful to witness and see, even though it is uncomfortable.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and being able to acknowledge both, right?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like the pandemic was not a blessing for a lot of people, right?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not a blessing, not happening for a lot of people.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I agree with you in a sense of like when we actually had to pause and like look at the mess, like we weren't running around staying busy.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was like we were all human and we had to look at the mess.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And some people have gone back to sleep, but I think a lot of people are like, hold on, and every week there's something else that we got to put up with while we're here.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah, that ability to reflect and the shift.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are gonna resist that shift because it's very hard to face the realities, but for a lot of us, the realities that people came into in 2020, a lot of us were already living.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember when the pandemic started.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I know.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: People's responses to this.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as a person with the autoimmune disease, I was already operating in a certain way.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I already had to operate in a certain way, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would go to work and people would come to work sick and not care about the fact that I had autoimmune disease, right?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like people with chronic illness and and like they've been living in a world that didn't care about them.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they've been navigating a world based on that, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Medical care.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now everybody is in need of media.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are facing the medical industrial complex in a way they've never had to.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Unemployment, all of these things for so many people living in the margins.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, it wasn't another year, but it was like another year of full BS, right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like another year of the stuff.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: For some people, it was brand new.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, and we talk a lot about this ethical radical things like privilege, class, race, all of the things that buffer us or expose us to the woes of the world is an opportunity to break us open and to activate empathy, real empathy, and to take action.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's just, I hope that we don't ever go back to sleep.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I also hope that we're just tapping each other on the shoulder, reminding each other, like, hey, like, you know, don't forget, like we're on a mission and we all have really special and unique gifts to offer.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And as scary as the world is, when we're connected like this and we're affirming one another and we're in community, it's sustainable.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's literal sustainability.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we could even take it further, which we won't in this conversation around what that could actually look like.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it would take it's a very radical framework to think about that part, and that's why we kind of stay in this wheelhouse of like fanatics, love, language, pronounce to start waking people up to a new way of approaching their work themselves.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just have so much thoughts of just like everything that I I have learned and and all the vulnerable.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope it's not taken the wrong way.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have any bad, malicious intention by it.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I was reflecting in one of the calls that we did, and I shared, and you were laughing at me, and not in a negative way, but I was at the supermarket.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, I told you someone almost like hit both me and my boyfriend, and I got and like they were in a car, they're backing up.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I shared the story and I was pissed, and I knocked on the window, and then you were like, Elaine, like as if I was gonna get shot, right?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you responding that way.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was someone else in the cohort who's also black, right?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're biracial, and and you're like, Elaine, be careful.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, it's cool, it's fine.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that call, I actually reflected on my privilege because I was like, I don't, I don't have to be worried about any harm because I am not black.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I'm in a different race or I'm not thinking about like if if I'm knocking my car.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: The language there, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that to think about it because harm can come to anyone, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Being shy, being beat up is not just reserved for black people, right?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the fact that we have to think about it or not, right?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always say, like in a lighter skinned body, I am safer, I am safer.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: My lived experience as a black person has made me privy to certain things, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that's absolutely right.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a huge that I think if if I do speak as like if non-black people could embody this in terms of anti-racism, but I think if we can just put each put ourselves in each other's shoes, like when I that's the biggest thing I take from that is like that story got that response from me and from everyone because like at first, like, yeah, I'm laughing, and then I'm like, oh no, right.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait a second, because you're putting your body in into a situation, and that's where I'm like, wait, oh, hold on.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting that you said that because today I was walking and I I never do this.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am I'm the queen of mind and my business.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm buying my business.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if y'all are fighting.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I'm because I really the East Coast girl.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we know.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, right, right.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm from the Midwest, I'm from Detroit.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really like, I'm going to keep it pushing.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Today I was walking, I'll try to keep the story brief, but there's something changing in me where I'm I am becoming more aware of like, where can I use my privilege literally?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where can like in a physical sense, because I'm not often putting my physical body in certain situations, but I was just walking down the road and this black woman and this white appearing woman, I later found out she was Hispanic, but she was white presenting.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were going back and forth, and all I heard was you use the N-word, and then the white adjacent person expressed, I have black children, I have mixed kids, so blah blah blah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I stopped and I turned around and I stood there and I listened to this back and forth for a minute.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, one not my place to step in for any for anybody, and because I don't want to take away anyone's autonomy at all, right?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm watching this this woman be gaslit by this by this woman.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know this.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got black kids, blah blah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a I'm I'm a biracial black woman.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very specific about that because there's lots of biracial people, but they could be non-black.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like being black in America is a very specific experience, right?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Rightfully so.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I could I button into that conversation and I did not do that.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is just on the street.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, uh-uh, you are not about to gaslight her.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just said something.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, as a biracial black person, I'm not allowed, but I'm not about to let you use that as a means to harm and to use the N-word.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's 2022.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy that I'm even watching this interaction and the idea around, well, I didn't mean any harm.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's not enough.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's not enough.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really big on that.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: We may cause harm, but it's how we reconcile and take accountability and responsibility for that harm.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I just spoke up because I was like, you know what?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm walking by this and I'm hearing a very particular gaslighting, and I'm just, I have time today.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had time, I had 30 minutes, 30, 35 minutes for I had to come see you.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know what?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I stood there and I listened to this, and the lady went about her business, and I just felt like I'm tired of this idea that, you know, and the deployment of like just how people are treated when they stand up for themselves and things like that.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just think of like, I put my body in that situation.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first time I ever did that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't mad, but I definitely, yeah, reflecting on your story, I'm like, girl, we don't know who we mess with.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I definitely had to like check.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure nobody was following me, making sure I didn't upset anybody too much, you know.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I also had to say my piece.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your story just reminded me of that and and privilege and what it means to be privileged and owning the privilege.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I need more advice and recognizing it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like the more you own it, the less shame you feel, and the more you're able to actually wield power because you aren't feeling like the fragility that can come attached to feeling like, oh my God, I have it better than others.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's not what I like acknowledging your privilege is about.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that's I'll just pause on that because I can talk about that all day.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's I start getting angry.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're having me feel all the emotions as if it was like a Hollywood movie, but like the gaslighting that happens, you know, the feedback that I've given where I'm like, I'm the only woman of color, or it's not feeling safe.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, I have like two black women as one-to-one clients, or I have black friends or Asian friends, like, or my sister-in-law is like insert whatever ethnicity.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, what am I supposed to do?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Give you an excuse to just like be okay.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: And even those statements.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting that we're talking about this because another part of the school of radical healing that's different from a lot of different programs is we're directly acknowledging racial trauma as like one of the number one reasons that we even need a trauma-informed approach at all.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: The reason that we even need to be aware of half of the things we need to be aware of is because we live under a supremacist framework, which upholds patriarchy, racism, and all these things.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even those statements of, well, I have, I do this and I do that.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not saying, like, you're not feeling safe.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share with me what has come up for you?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like keeping staying focused, right, on what you're sharing, not thinking of like, oh, this black person's in my life.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: This makes me, it's like that in and of itself is a sign of a bias of some sort.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: That when a person of color is expressing themselves and their experience, that you just default to every person of color in your life.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: That isn't that's the difference, that's the thing I always tell people.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell, I can tell a person is really practicing in that realm of anti-racism and all that when they have deep, intimate relationships with people of color and black people, especially black people, because I'm talking about knowing their birthdays, knowing if their mom and dad are still alive.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm talking about really knowing details about a person, not I got a black friend that I see on a Tuesday after work when we go to have after our happy hour.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the same.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I always, you know, I always, you know, it stress that to people because I grew up the guise of a white mother who didn't seek color.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that has impacted me greatly in my identity throughout my life, and so much of that is just not necessary.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: We can see each other for who we are, we can do that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to uphold race racism, but we can acknowledge the fact that like I have a different lived experience than you based off of my race, and so on and so forth.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone a whole rant, girl.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: So let me just wrap it, let me pull it in.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just I'm I'm feeling all of it, you know.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I want to share this, and I hope it doesn't come off as wrong.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I had a fellow Asian client who came to my retreat, and this is what she said.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I don't know why other Asian coaches do this or other Asian like facilitators.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're like all Asian, but like there's something about your space where I see like black people and like white people and Latinas, like it's different.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why does it have to be like water and oil?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why can't she literally use that example?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why does it feel like water and oil?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm really grateful that you're opening up this space.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I mean, sure, I put in my marketing tools, but then I kind of think about how I grew up.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I like love food.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by that is like I just got tired of Filipino food, so I just want to try different types of foods.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and in high school, I was the weird girl, and even in college, it's like, oh, why are you hanging out with them?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, because they got some mango and Lucas that I want to go try and eat.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm tired of our food, you know?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, isn't that interesting too?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the food is what connected me.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like curiosity, yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's the curiosity, even in high school, even in the it was like, I mean, it was just interesting.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we clearly knew who was part of the LGBT community.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was one of the first people that my friends would share and open up to.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I I took that even, I didn't even really understand any of this stuff, right?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew it was like, wow, okay, they feel safe sharing that with me.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then just working with you through the school of radical healing, it was just very affirming of like there's so much healing that can happen when we're just being real and honest, you know.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you even notice with me in this podcast interview, I was like, I don't know if this is gonna come off right or wrong, but I'm just gonna tell a story, you know, correct me.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like if you feel like you're walking on eggshells to like share something, then I mean we gotta like work on some stuff.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or maybe like you're not in a safe place to share it.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're not gonna work.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to I wanna make one comment to what you shared, you know, so much of sameness, right?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about we talked about this.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Say it, say it.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a self-imminist feels like safety.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sameness feels like safety.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not mad at like all Asian spaces or all black spaces.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I do think they need to exist.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: And these, the spaces that we're more self-speaking to, I think they're like they're another level of that.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like once you've established that, or and sometimes we never like sometimes we don't feel safe amongst sameness.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did it growing up.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm being honest, I didn't.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't grow up at the same level.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: The minute I was exposed to like consistency in terms of like people being the same, it was very traumatic for me.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I grew up in Inkster as a small city outside of Detroit where everyone is white or black or mixed.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I never got the question of what are you until I moved out to a predominantly white neighborhood.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had never been asked that.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know how to answer the question because I was like, What are what do you mean?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: What am I?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that question kind of, and it still sticks to me to this day of like, you know, it was the first time my identity had ever been brought into question.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the sameness was really more, it was violence for me.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was very harmful for me, very disorienting and disassociating from my culture and like what I knew.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to make my way back to that.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had to make my way back to like when is my identity and learning and unlearning and liberating the supremacist in me, liberating whiteness in me.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Those were all things I had to move through.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very interesting.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to just stress again that racial trauma is one of our it's it's happening to more of us than not.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's happening on a regular basis.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of why this conversation, I think, went that direction.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it is, it's the harm we experience almost daily, especially the deep.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, I said the deeper you live in the margins, the more likely you're to experience it on a daily basis.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the nervous system being impacted every single day, whether you whether it's on you, or just you opened your phone and you read something or your friend told you something.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want people to fear or feel like how you're like, I don't know if it's gonna come off the wrong way.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: The more we face race head on and we talk about it and we talk about how it makes us feel.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not right, like the construct of race, separating people based off it, all of that is it's it's violent, it's disgusting, it's a barbaric way of thinking.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: The more we talk about it, we're dismantling it interpersonally.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: We may not be taking down the powers of a big house, but interpersonally, we're breaking down barriers between each other.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to know that that can happen.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know that we can really feel safe and we can talk about it.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: It impacts us literally, like on every level.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I want more people to like believe that, you know, and I I've seen it in my community, in the Asian American community.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all the AAPI hate crimes that are happening because of the pandemic.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been aware of it, but like this is because of a specific event, right, that has happened, which is the pandemic.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I've gone into like thinking deeper.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I can't imagine being black.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have to think about this all the time, regardless of what is happening around the world.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just made me more empathetic, more aware, understanding my privilege that I have, and even just more human to one another.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we and the beautiful thing about accessing that is that we come to understand, like, oh, the liberation of black women and black trans people is really the liberation for all of us.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really would liberate all of us because they they hitting all the markers, like they're hitting all of the markers, right?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're hitting something, right?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: But they're hitting all the markers.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that liberation, and I love to keep my mind's eye there.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love to keep my, even if it's just in the back of my mind, just always thinking like our liberation, because if we can liberate these people, we'll all have that.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: We'll all have that sense of freedom.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, yeah, I appreciate that.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that empathy right there, man.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: We always talk about how the world would be a better place with X, Y, and Z.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I really that's the empathy we need.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we really need to understand that because it's not about comparing trauma or who has had it worse, or we we know that we know for a fact that I don't even entertain that.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I try not to entertain that conversation anymore because when we understand privilege and we understand living in the margins and we understand the things, we don't even get caught up in that.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: We just we face our reality.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Adria, I can't believe we've already been talking for a full hour.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: I could just talk to you all day.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just gonna tie myself over and just like hit record.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, by agency, we'll just have conversations.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I always like ending our podcast episodes asking, what is one reflective question?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you could dial it in, if you can't, you could do multiple.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is one reflective question behalf for our listeners?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what is one action item?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, this is good.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, reflective question.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: So a question I can offer them to think on.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I have two.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: One, I know you're like, I said one girl.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I knew you were gonna go do extra credit.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that was gonna happen.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, the first one that I want, I need it's a it's a it's a question you gotta ask before you ask the next one.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one, how is your heart?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's the first question.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, how is your heart?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do a check-in, and then I would ask, what is what is my why?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is my why?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has different whys.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone believes they're here.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Some people believe they're here for a reason, some people believe they're not here for a reason, and maybe life looks different.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to ask yourself, what is my why?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I here?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then the action is to find out to to go do something that activates that, whatever that is.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, it will change how you feel.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my answer to those and right.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, I'm one emphasize what you said, like just reflecting, sitting still, like we know the answers within.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just being brave enough to give ourselves that space.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because in a capitalist society that's happened pre-2020, it was like, Oh, I gotta do this or that.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't got time to think.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then what happened during the pandemic?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: We got so much time to think because we already watched like Bridgerton season one five times.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, how all how much can we see of the Duke, you know?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love I love me some Bridgeton.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do love lovely, I love it.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but you're right.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we we do have time to think, and also I like to say, like, you're worthy, you're worthy to sit down with yourself and to think, like, yeah, what am I doing?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why what is my why?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: And your my your why might be your kids, it might be like, you know, a goal you have in mind.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: It might, it doesn't matter, but it's really important to one thing that my therapist has encouraged me to do is, and I was already doing it, but I think her giving me language around it, she just said, do one thing every day towards your purpose.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: One thing, one thing every day.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wouldn't even know what to do every day if I didn't know why.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: I like why, why?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you gotta find that out for yourself.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, and ask yourself how your heart is first, because you might, you know, you might need to answer that word first for sure.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna love my joke, but it's not a joke, it's actually I was like, my life or what I want to do right now, my purpose, my stomach just growled.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's hungry.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hungry too.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what am I gonna eat?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, Adria, obviously your program has changed my life.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: I wish there was more Agias around the world, but just even you having your cohort students going through it, like myself, and even us being able to give back to our purpose and support more communities.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share with people how they can find out how to work with you and all the other extra stuff?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for offering me the space to do that.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, our fall cohort is currently enrolling.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: That enrollment deadline is September 9th.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you can visit the so-r-h.com slash programs to learn more about that program.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can book a one-to-one with me if you want to talk and ask any questions to ensure that the program is a good fit for you, which is what Elaine did.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: We got to actually talk and connect and make sure that it was a good fit for her.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: I also offer one-on-one coaching with very powerful women, women who are ready to really fine-tune their intuition and elevate their business.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a coach that's promoting that I'm gonna make you six figures now.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more of the coach that's promoting that we're gonna get you in touch with yourself so that you can go and access all the things that you need.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find the Elevate program at my website, which is adriamos.com slash elevate.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to encourage you if you work with people daily, weekly, if you're deploying a lot of energy, if you're looking to hold safer space or look at the language, I definitely recommend our cohort.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, social media at the School of Radical Healing, at Adria Moses, all those things.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: But those are the main, the main places to visit.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you follow Adria on Instagram or her words will just pierce through your soul, you just write with so much heart and soul.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to this, just everybody sign up.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kidding, you can't because it's so limited, anyways, to ensure like intimacy and safe space.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have any questions about working with Adria being part of the School of Radical Healing, feel free to ask.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: I get no affiliate cut for this.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sharing because it has literally changed my life and the work I'm doing.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you can't tell from this episode, I mean we're over an hour talking because that's how much I love Adria.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: This was so good.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: And just thank you for thank you for your vulnerability.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: For real.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've I since the moment I met you, I'm like, yeah, this is my type of my type of person.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Gonna, you know, open learning, gonna come straight shooter, you know.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, and you're doing such beautiful work, and I'm so proud of you.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: So proud of you.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me just say, like, sometimes when I shared this, where I was at a speaking event and I started and I was like, look, we're all experts here.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only expert.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I went from like standing up to sitting down.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, ooh, Asia's mentoring me here.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is she like here in my head?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're with me all the time.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Adria.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, didn't we get so real and honest here?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like a sneaker, when I recommend a service, it's because I have personally gone through it, or I know the person well and know the service and results they've gotten for their clients.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I just feel like I am a different coach and mentor for my own clients.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: I even kind of get sad.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I wish I took this trauma-informed certification program with Adria sooner to create safer spaces for my clients.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm doing it.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you're interested in receiving a trauma-informed certification like me and you want to work with Adria, go check out her program at schoolofradicalhealing.com.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions about the program, feel free to email me or DM me on Instagram at ElaineLou underscore and ask me any questions you might have.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: And a second thing, Legacy Maker.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you know one or two of your friends who would benefit from this episode, please share this with them.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: I ring on people and interview them because I just firmly believe in their work and I want to amplify them.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So more women of color and allies can benefit too.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have one or two friends that would get so much from this particular episode, please share.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: The intention behind the Colour Your Dreams podcast was to contribute and give back to our people.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right.