Latest / 3 Guys, 6 Balls NFL Podcast / Building an All-Time Cowboys Roster, Building the Ultimate RB In Today's NFL, & What Would Be Considered A Successful Season For J.J. McCarthy?

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Building an All-Time Cowboys Roster, Building the Ultimate RB In Today's NFL, & What Would Be Considered A Successful Season For J.J. McCarthy? · 3 Guys, 6 Balls NFL Podcast

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  3 lifelong friends, 6 trusty balls and endless NFL ticks.
• 0:05
  Welcome to three guys 6 balls NFL podcast.
• 0:08
  Welcome to episode 19 of three guys 6 balls NFL podcast.
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  We are two weeks away, you guys from the first pre season game
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  two weeks away. Hall.
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  Of Famer, the Hall of Fame game. Two weeks away from three weeks
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  away. Oh yeah, no.
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  We're two weeks, two weeks away from 4 weeks away because
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  there's three preseason games and that's, that's there's three
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  weeks of preseason games. Well, don't make it longer than
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  it needs to be, OK? I've never heard that in my
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  life, but thank. You cut that part, cut that
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  part. Anyways, we have today's episode
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  and then we have next week's episode, and then after that,
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  we're going to be talking fantasy football for three weeks
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  straight. So I'm excited about it.
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  And then after those three weeks, we have our fantasy
• 0:58
  football draft, which we set up with a bunch of our friends from
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  our Instagram sports podcasters group.
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  So I'm excited for that draft and I'm excited to talk some
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  fantasy football in a couple weeks.
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  So to get us started with today's episode, Avery is
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  actually going to have our game today.
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  So, Avery, I'll pass it over to you.
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  All right boys. Well, what we're going to be
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  doing is a little bit of a quick answer, quick ish answer.
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  Since Joel and Will are both big time Cowboys fans, I thought it
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  would be nice to make a all time starting lineup loosely.
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  I mean, yeah, there's there's 52 position, 52 roster spots, but
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  we're not doing that. Basically what I'm going to do
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  is name a position and I've got a number of people in there.
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  We're going to go through it tournament style and basically
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  going to give it give them both a head to
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  So if there is a name that should have been mentioned, let
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  me know. I will be extremely embarrassed
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  if there is a name I left off that ends up winning that
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  position. So if that happens, you guys,
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  you guys win. Otherwise, I win.
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  I like my odds. All right, let's do this.
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  All right, we're going to start with quarterback.
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  We got Roger Staubach, DAC Prescott.
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  Roger Staubach. Yeah, there's.
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  No contest. It's not even close.
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  All right, Troy Aikman, Tony Romo.
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  Troy Aikman. Yeah, Aikman's a better
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  quarterback. And we're, and we're talking
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  about basically like you're putting together A-Team.
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  I should have prefaced this before like their prime on a
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  team. So it's not just, oh, they won
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  Super Bowls and you were on it. It's like, no, I actually like
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  your chances. You know, it all depends.
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  Like you're kind of coach here. Before you asked Troy Aikman,
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  Roger Staubach, Because I feel like I can.
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  I'm in the future here. What era?
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  But yeah, I know, right? What era of football are we
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  playing it? Are we playing it like this
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  team's about to play? They're about to suit up for the
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  Hall of Fame game. I'm going to say you're playing
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  in today's era of. Football, because that's
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  important. How I answer this very next
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  question, feel free to ask. Roger Staubach.
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  Troy Aikman. Based on your to playing in
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  today's world, I'm going to go Troy Aikman.
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  Yeah, I'm going. To Troy, Really.
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  Yeah, that wasn't even a question before the before what
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  era we're playing in, Mr. OK. All right, we got Troy Aikman in
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  quarterback. I'll see you best announcer.
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  Best announcer in the NFL currently in my opinion.
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  Troy Aikman. Love listening to him commentate
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  games. I can agree with that.
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  That is up for debate, sure, A different debate, but.
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  Is that is that dude? Is that the just kidding white
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  Jay-Z dude? The.
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  White Jay-Z dude. What?
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  Look him up and tell me that's not white Jay-Z.
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  Oh, yeah, I'll. I'll wait.
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  Wait, who are we looking up? Oh, Troy Eppman.
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  I can see it. White Jay-Z.
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  Just type in White Jay-Z. I'll bet he'll show up.
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  I will. I'll do it right now.
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  I actually that was the first thing I don't know.
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  That was the first thing I googled.
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  It comes up with a picture of actual Jay-Z.
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  Dang. It all right anyway, next it's
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  it's White Jay-Z running. Backs.
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  We can skip running backs, right?
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  It's going to be Emmitt Smith. Well, is he on the list though?
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  Is he on the list? There's no Emmitt Smith on the
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  leg. OK, well just tell us who you
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  just tell us. Let's just do it anyway, Emmitt.
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  Smith, Herschel Walker. Emmitt.
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  Emmitt Smith, Herschel Walker wasn't a Conway on F.
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  Yeah, but but he still counts, and we're still talking about
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  their prime, whether they were a cowboy or not.
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  Oh, and that is. Not as I'm still going, I'm
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  still going in the Smith, but that does it does make a
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  difference. I should have this is these are
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  things I should have prefaced but.
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  Who gets right? We're just doing it having.
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  Fun, right? Tony Dorsett.
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  Ezekiel Elliott. Dorsett.
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  Yeah, all. Right, It's going to be Emmett
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  Smith. But let's say these three guys,
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  Tony Dorsett, Ezekiel Elliott, Herschel Walker.
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  Tony, I can't agree with that. Even Zeke and his prime was not
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  was not those guys. Zeke Zeke's rookie season has a
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  case to be made. But it goes Tony Dorsett,
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  Herschel Walker and then Zeke. Yeah.
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  OK. Yeah.
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  All right. Now these aren't necessarily in
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  any particular order. So once we go through the thing,
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  if you find that there are two guys that you would have
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  preferred in general, we can do that.
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  No, you made the matchups. You're the expert, all right.
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  I'm not an expert, but I appreciate appreciate the
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  confidence. All right, Michael Irvin, Alvin
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  Harper. Oh, I mean, it's right to be
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  Michael Irvin, right? You're on.
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  It's Michael. Irvin.
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  It's Michael Irvin. OK, Drew Pearson, Miles Austin.
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  Drew Pearson, Yeah, OK, yes. Drew Pearson, dude, I remember
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  Miles Austin. He wasn't.
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  He wasn't there for a long time. He was there for a good time.
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  Dez Bryant, Tony Hill, Oh. Man, I think I'm.
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  Well, who are you going with? I'm gonna have to go with Dez.
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  I think he was. He was the Cowboys team when he
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  played. Yep, I'm gonna go with Dez just
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  because he was such a dynamic weapon when he was in his prime
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  that yeah, I can't, I can't not pick Dez.
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  I agree with that. I still see Dez Bryant as a
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  disappointment because of how short lived it was when it did
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  not need it. Was that short lived?
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  It was. All right, now part of this you
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  have to see a little bit into the future because it's a
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  current player, Bob Hayes CD. Lamb.
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  I'm going to take CD Lamb. Yeah, I'm after a CD 2.
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  I think he's got a higher potential than Bob Hayes had in
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  his career and it's just because the game is different.
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  But he CD at his prime is better than better than Bob Hayes.
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  All right, we're down to four and at this point, I'm just
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  going to give you the four and you guys choose the two.
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  Michael Irvin, Drew Pearson, Dez Bryant, CD Lamb.
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  OK, we'll lock in Michael. Yes.
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  But the the question for me is, well, it this isn't a question.
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  I think Dez should be out. Out.
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  Yeah, I think Dez should be out, I must say, just because, like
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  Avery said, it wasn't long enough.
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  But we're talking about the The thing was in their prime.
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  This is one season. That is, that is, that is
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  technically it. I'm not my my comment was an
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  aside, but yes it is basically if you can take them at their
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  prime. I think pure.
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  Physicality Des and his prime is better than CD and his prime,
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  which we're seeing right now. OK, OK.
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  But I'm looking up their stats right now.
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  So Des is high in receiving yards is 3 or 1382 and is high
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  in touchdowns is 16 C DS high in receiving yards is 1749.
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  So it's like 400 more than Dez, but is high in touchdowns is 12.
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  So Dez is better at touchdowns for the for the three years in
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  his prime, but CD is a more consistent receiver because he's
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  already had four straight seasons of 1000 yards or more,
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  and his rookie year was 935. I mean, this question is moot,
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  right? They all were number 88.
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  They can't be on the same team together, so it doesn't matter.
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  Well, Irvin's already on, so you're not.
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  Choosing, right? Yeah, we can't use Des or CD
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  Lance. Sorry.
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  No, I'm just kidding. So does does Drew Pearson.
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  Is he in the hunt still? This has got to be racency bias,
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  right? Like.
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  OK, it always is. Just listen to Drew Pearson's
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  stats though. I know he's a great Dallas
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  receiver but he had 2000 yard receivers his entire career and
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  his his high in touchdowns is 8 so to me he should be out.
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  So I think it's between Dez and CD.
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  Yeah, I would go CD personally, but I'm not going to be mad if
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  we go Dez. I have no problem with going
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  CDOM all right. I don't urban and CD.
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  Congrats, you guys have a current all time great on the
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  team right now. It's too bad it doesn't make any
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  difference. I know you're.
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  Right. You would think I would feel
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  better about the team this year, but I don't.
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  All right. Tight end Jason Witten.
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  Jason Witten. I was gonna, I was, I was
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  looking at the list. And I'm like, yeah.
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  Isn't he the all time? Isn't he the all time leader in
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  receiving yards for the Cowboys? For the Cowboys, Yeah.
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  Yeah. It's like if it's it would be
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  like if, what's his name, Tony Gonzalez was on this list.
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  It's like it's not even debatable that he's not like the
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  greatest tight end, in my opinion.
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  All right, offensive line. I don't know any of these
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  people, but I hope that you guys know most of them.
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  Are we doing every position or or how are we doing this?
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  Guard tackle center. OK, OK, it's all together and
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  we're we're ending on two of them.
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  So there's 8 names. OK, OK, All right.
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  Larry Allen, Guard and then Ray Field Wright.
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  It's. Larry Allen 100% Larry Allen.
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  Larry Allen's going to make the team.
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  Yes, yes. That let's just you can just put
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  that in chocolate. I'll put them up there.
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  Yeah, yeah. They're not coming up at this
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  point. Well, you got to pick two of
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  them, right? Yep.
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  Travis Frederick, center. Zach Martin, Guard.
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  Oh, that's mean of you wait. We're we're comparing a center
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  and a guard to each other. Yep.
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  I mean, the two of them. I take Zach Martin.
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  Even though Travis Frederick was great, he just had to retire
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  early because of his health. But I'm going to take Zach
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  Martin. Yeah.
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  All right. Mike Stepanoski and Tyron Smith.
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  I mean, personally, I'm going to go with Tyron Smith because he
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  was, he might not be the first guy, but he was one of the first
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  guys that seemed to change the trend of big fat offensive
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  lineman to big strong offensive lineman.
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  Because you didn't see a lot of, I mean, pure muscle people
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  playing offensive tackle or really anywhere on the offensive
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  line. And then you saw a tire on Smith
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  standing there. It's like that guy plays left
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  tackle. He doesn't play defensive end or
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  nose tackle. And it's just like he he may
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  have been the first player, but he was the most recognizable
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  player to change the mold, the way that the offensive line was
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  utilized. Yeah, I'm going to go Tyron
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  Smith too, but let me just say, Avery, this really sucks that
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  you're making us think about all these great players that we've
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  had like recently and we have nothing.
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  That you don't have any more. And we have nothing to show for
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  it. Just take it.
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  Taking a little stroll down nostalgia lane, all right?
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  Eric Williams. Nate Newton.
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  I'm going to go Nate Newton. I'm going to agree.
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  All right, Zach Martin, Tyron Smith.
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  No, gosh, you're mean. I it's trying to be Tyron Smith
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  for me. I can be easily convinced of
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  Zach Martin, but I think it's Tyron Smith, right?
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  If we're. Going.
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  Just going. Just wait, just just so we
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  understand the stakes, unless Nate Newton is being put up
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  there with Larry Allen, RIP, by the way, it it comes down to
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  Zach Martin and Tyron Smith. So you are deciding second place
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  here. You're deciding the other guard,
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  the other offensive line. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm going to
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  go Tyron Smith as well. If we're going in their prime,
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  they're both great, but I'm going to go Tyron Smith because
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  if we're going like in prime without injuries, all that
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  stuff, I'm going Tyron Smith, yes.
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  All right, defensive lineman and too tall.
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  Jones, DeMarcus Lawrence. Too tall Jones.
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  I don't feel like DeMarcus Lawrence left like that big of a
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  legacy in Dallas. Like he was a good player, but I
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  don't feel like he was ever like the best defensive end in the
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  league at any point in his career.
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  Alright, Bob Lilly. Hold on.
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  You said which? Which DeMarcus Lawrence?
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  Lawrence not. Where yes, not where Yeah, where
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  is not. Yeah, he's not a defensive
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  lineman. Yeah, OK.
• 13:50
  Yeah, I I thought the same thing.
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  I was like, where the hell is where?
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  Charles Haley. Bob Lilly.
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  Oh man. These are some old names we're
• 14:01
  talking about now when he's here, he tells Haley.
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  Right. This is a tough one.
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  This needs a record for Super Bowls.
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  Am I thinking of the wrong Haley?
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  He played for the Niners and the Cowboys.
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  Yeah, 55 time Super Bowl champion Charles Haley probably
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  was Mr. Cowboy. Yeah, he played for Dallas's
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  whole career. 61 through 74, jeez, that's a long time to play
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  defensive end. Well, he played tackle.
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  As well. This is tough because if we're
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  going just like, I don't know, I feel like I would go with Bob
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  Lilly just because of he just because he was a cowboy his
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  entire career and Charles Haley was a 49er for a long time
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  before he was a cowboy and a. 49er a 49er again after he was a
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  cowboy. Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't
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  think true. Cowboy.
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  I don't think this pick is going to make much of a difference, so
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  OK. Yeah, we'll go Bob Lilly then.
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  Bob Lilly. Bob Lilly.
• 15:01
  All right, Leon, Let Randy White.
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  I think I'm going to go Randy White.
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  All right, I can agree with that.
• 15:09
  All right, It's between Bob Lilly, Ed Jones, Randy White.
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  You need 2. 2. So Ed Jones, right?
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  See. Yep, too tall.
• 15:21
  Oh, he was 69. Yeah.
• 15:23
  All right, that makes sense. Will, are you?
• 15:25
  Are you? Would you be OK with too Tall
• 15:27
  Jones and Randy White? Yes, I would comfortably so you
• 15:31
  know, it goes to say that you only named 1 semi recent Dallas
• 15:37
  defensive lineman and they have had a problem.
• 15:40
  They've had a problem stopping the run for a long time.
• 15:43
  But the past 5-10 years, maybe not that long, but 5-7 years
• 15:48
  haven't been able to stop the run.
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  And it's because of that very reason right there.
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  They they have no defensive line to do it, no high caliber
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  defensive line, something going to exist.
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  I'm just not the same as they used to be.
• 16:01
  Same as it ever was. Yeah.
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  No, that's a, that's a great insight.
• 16:04
  Yeah. I don't recognize any of these
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  names at all. All right.
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  Linebackers going to again, Bob Breunig, Micah Parsons.
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  I'm going Micah. Micah.
• 16:17
  I think we have. I think we have to, yeah.
• 16:19
  All right. Thomas Hollywood.
• 16:22
  Henderson, Sean Lee. Sean Lee in his prime, no
• 16:27
  injuries. Yeah, in his prime, no injuries.
• 16:29
  Oh yeah, if we're taking injuries out of it, then yes.
• 16:32
  Yep, all right. Chuck Howley.
• 16:35
  Dexter Coakley. I'm back.
• 16:38
  I don't know who these people are.
• 16:39
  Yeah, no, I don't know who those guys are either.
• 16:42
  So just. Chuck Howley, Leroy Jordan, I
• 16:48
  thought you were going to say. I thought you were going to say.
• 16:50
  I did too, yeah. I didn't realize until I was
• 16:53
  saying it. OK, wait, who are the names
• 16:57
  again? He, Jordan.
• 16:59
  DeMarcus Ware. DeMarcus Ware.
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  You, Ward Jordan played for the Cowboys in like the Sixties,
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  1963 to 1976. It's DeMarcus.
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  Ware. It is DeMarcus Ware.
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  OK, Did the That is one player I can truly say I was thrilled
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  when he won a Super Bowl. It wasn't with Dallas,
• 17:18
  obviously. I was glad he went somewhere
• 17:20
  else and won the Super Bowl. I was so happy.
• 17:22
  Did he win it Denver? Denver.
• 17:25
  Dear Von Miller won MVP. Yeah, Von Miller was a monster
• 17:29
  that year. Yeah, they had a wonderful
• 17:31
  defensive line that year and we're.
• 17:35
  Going to do this DeMarcus Warez up there between Shawn Lee and
• 17:41
  Mark Micah Parsons. Who would it be?
• 17:44
  Oh man. That's AI.
• 17:46
  Think Shawn Lee is the more well-rounded linebacker now.
• 17:50
  They play different positions. Micah does not play middle
• 17:52
  linebacker and so you're looking for different skill sets.
• 17:56
  But I think Sean Lee is the more well-rounded at his prime,
• 18:00
  better player. Yeah, because we have DeMarcus
• 18:03
  Ware as our pass rusher. I'm going to go Sean Lee too.
• 18:06
  All right, now I have something interesting.
• 18:08
  Oh no. Sean Lee, I want you guys
• 18:11
  because it sounded like you didn't know who Chuck Howley
• 18:13
  was. I want you to look up Chuck
• 18:14
  Howley and compare him to Sean Lee and tell me if you still
• 18:18
  want to keep Sean Lee there or if you'd like to replace him
• 18:21
  with Howley. Chuck Howley.
• 18:24
  I don't think I, I think I've, I don't want to replace him.
• 18:29
  I can't agree with that. I think that because of his
• 18:32
  injuries, his his stats or numbers aren't look that good.
• 18:36
  But when he was out on the field it was his defense.
• 18:40
  He ran that defense and that is an intangible that's not going
• 18:44
  to show up on your stats. Fair, fair.
• 18:47
  Cornerbacks Orlando Scandrick, Dennis Thurman.
• 18:53
  OK, so Orlando Scandrick played on the Cowboys when their
• 18:59
  secondary was terrible. And of all things, that offense,
• 19:04
  Tony Romo, Jason Witten, Dez Bryant, that offense was fun to
• 19:09
  watch. And then their defense got in
• 19:11
  the field and it was it Once they got past that, DeMarcus
• 19:14
  Ware, Shawn, the linebacker, linebacker core and the
• 19:18
  secondary is like, all right, well, all bets are off.
• 19:20
  We can't they we can't do anything to stop a pass.
• 19:24
  So just by default of how mad I spent part of my life at Orlando
• 19:30
  Skandrick, I just can't possibly pick him.
• 19:34
  I'm not going to fight you on that all.
• 19:36
  Right Thurman, Larry Brown, Terence Newman.
• 19:42
  Oh, see Terence Newman. Same era.
• 19:45
  Yeah, I remember both Skandrick and Newman.
• 19:47
  Let's go. Larry Brown.
• 19:49
  Terence Newman was good, but he didn't do anything all right.
• 19:52
  Oh, I think Will agrees with that.
• 19:54
  Yes, Sir, Yes, yes, yes. Cornell Green.
• 19:57
  Everson Walls. Oh, I don't know who you guys
• 20:01
  are. You never heard of Everson
• 20:02
  Walls? No, I'm a fake fan.
• 20:05
  Doesn't sound like a real name. That is not the right Cornell
• 20:08
  Green. That is not into lineman.
• 20:11
  Cornell. West, I just looked at this same
• 20:14
  this. Same W you see Cornell West.
• 20:19
  That's just some political commentator.
• 20:22
  Oh. Sheepers never.
• 20:26
  Let's just go Everson walls. Yep, obviously way better.
• 20:32
  Mel Renfro, Trayvon Diggs. Mel, I'm going Mel Renfro.
• 20:37
  Then let me ask. Out of.
• 20:39
  Everson out of Everson Walls, Larry Brown and Dennis Thurman.
• 20:44
  Would you replace Trayvon Diggs with any of them?
• 20:46
  I'm. Going to stay.
• 20:48
  I'm going to. Go.
• 20:50
  I'm talking Diggs from two years ago.
• 20:53
  I'm going to Everson walls. Place Everson walls with him.
• 20:57
  Oh, you mean you'd swap out Everson walls The.
• 21:00
  Question is, is putting Everson walls over digs right?
• 21:03
  Well, the real question is I'm assuming Mel Renfrow will be in
• 21:06
  your list of cornerbacks. Yes.
• 21:09
  I'm wondering if between Everson Walls, Dennis Thurman and Larry
• 21:15
  Brown, if one of those three would be in there, or if Trayvon
• 21:18
  Diggs would be in there with red and fro.
• 21:21
  Well OK, let me just say this. No Renfro is the all time leader
• 21:24
  in interceptions for the Cowboys and Everson Walls a second so.
• 21:27
  Who has the record for in a season?
• 21:30
  That's Dave doesn't with 11. Well, Everson Walls also had 11
• 21:36
  opportunities in his rookie year, actually.
• 21:39
  Things did it in his second year but COVID was the first year so
• 21:42
  does that count? That walls and digs only 40
• 21:45
  years apart that they. I think we should go.
• 21:48
  I think we should go Renfroan Walls.
• 21:50
  All right, I'm good with that. Wait.
• 21:52
  Hold. On hold on.
• 21:53
  Hold on, hold on. Hold on.
• 21:54
  Shoot, shoot, shoot. Where's?
• 21:55
  Deion Sanders. Yeah, where is Deion Sanders?
• 22:00
  That was the first one you guys got.
• 22:03
  All right, got gotcha. Everson Walls is out, I'm taking
• 22:06
  Dion. Sanders, There it is.
• 22:11
  I knew I was missing one. All right, safety, we're
• 22:15
  picking. We'll pick two.
• 22:18
  Darren Woodson. Brock Marion.
• 22:21
  Yeah, Darren Woodson for sure. Cliff Harris.
• 22:24
  Michael Downs. Cliff Harris.
• 22:27
  Yeah, it's gotta be I Yes, I have nothing else to say.
• 22:32
  My main man, Roy Williams, Bill Bates.
• 22:35
  Roy Williams, but he's not making the same.
• 22:37
  Charlie Waters, James Washington.
• 22:40
  I'm assuming you don't know them.
• 22:42
  I know the billions. I know the.
• 22:43
  Neither of them are going to beat out Cliff Harris or Darren
• 22:46
  Woodson. They're not.
• 22:48
  Nope. All right, Darren Woodson and
• 22:53
  Cliff Harris. All right.
• 22:55
  Give us our all Time Team here Avery.
• 22:57
  Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wicker yet?
• 22:59
  Oh, we got to go punch you, kicker.
• 23:01
  I'll give all four names for kicker.
• 23:03
  Dan Bailey, Rafael Septian, Chris Bonio, Mike Vander.
• 23:12
  Dude, what is going on? I mean, it's got to be Dan
• 23:16
  Bailey, right? It's Dan Bailey.
• 23:19
  Dan Bailey and Hunter thing. Punter Chris Jones, Zach Zas
• 23:27
  Toodle, Mike Saxon, Matt Mcbrier.
• 23:31
  With this team, we won't need a punter, right?
• 23:33
  Yeah, let's just go Chris Jones. Chris Jones.
• 23:38
  All right. Here's the team Troy Aikman at
• 23:40
  quarterback, Emmett Smith at running back, Michael Irvin, CD
• 23:45
  Lamb at wide receiver, Jason Witten at tight end, Larry Allen
• 23:50
  and Tyron Smith defensive line 2 tall and Randy White,
• 23:55
  linebacker. DeMarcus Where Sean Lee,
• 23:58
  cornerback Mel Renfro, Deon Sanders, safety Darren Cliff,
• 24:04
  Oh, Darren Woodson and Cliff Harris.
• 24:07
  Imagine that, Dan Bailey and Chris Jones.
• 24:11
  Cool. All righty.
• 24:12
  All right, all right. Cool.
• 24:14
  Well, thanks, Avery. That was a good one.
• 24:16
  That was fun, even though I was a little embarrassed, but that
• 24:19
  was a good one. Sorry, we got into with with
• 24:21
  Dionne. It was just, yeah, we did.
• 24:24
  We did. We got him.
• 24:25
  Back with the Dion one. Hey, to be fair, I said if you
• 24:27
  guys point out someone that I missed that makes the list, you
• 24:30
  guys win so. We win, we did it.
• 24:34
  And that game was rigged for me to win, and you still pulled it
• 24:37
  out so. Yeah, you showed up with the
• 24:39
  answers and we still got you. Yeah.
• 24:42
  All right. OK, cool.
• 24:44
  All right, so we're going to go on to our next topic, which is
• 24:48
  kind of a game. But what we're going to do is
• 24:49
  we're going to build our ultimate running back with only
• 24:53
  current players, and we can only pick a player one time.
• 24:58
  So we have 9 categories. But once we pick that player, so
• 25:01
  for example, if we pick Derrick Henry for any of the categories,
• 25:04
  you cannot pick Derrick Henry for any of the other 8
• 25:07
  categories. So let's go.
• 25:10
  Who wants to go first? Should we just rotate?
• 25:13
  Should we just go topic by topic and just make a case for who we
• 25:16
  think should be in there? Because we're going to have
• 25:18
  arguments on there on who's what.
• 25:19
  Because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm seeing this kind of like
• 25:22
  drafting A-Team where we kind of have to discuss it, but we got
• 25:24
  to be quick. Sure.
• 25:27
  Yeah, so we. Got to keep it like 30 seconds
• 25:29
  Max 20 seconds per one. We got to keep it, yeah.
• 25:34
  I'll try for size. I'm thinking.
• 25:37
  I'm thinking Derek Henry. I know that that's just like,
• 25:39
  oh, we just burned the top one. And let me allow this.
• 25:42
  Deuce Vaughn, the shortest running back in the NFL, right?
• 25:48
  You gain a loose in this because he's so small.
• 25:50
  You gain speed, obviously, because he's got less body size.
• 25:54
  OK, I have my two players written down here, Derek Henry
• 25:57
  and Deuce Vaughn is 1 and 2. What am I doing here?
• 26:00
  The complete opposite. You've got like 6-3 and you've
• 26:03
  got like 5/8. OK.
• 26:05
  I'm just saying if we want to use Derrick Henry later Deus Von
• 26:08
  you get a small compact Maurice Jones Drew style running back.
• 26:11
  But it would. OK, it would.
• 26:12
  Be something if if you could still like have that same speed,
• 26:16
  but it's just the size. It's just the size and
• 26:18
  durability that's the only thing you're getting out of it.
• 26:21
  OK, before before we officially start though, let me read the
• 26:24
  category so our listeners know what we're actually trying to
• 26:26
  figure out. OK, so there's 9 categories.
• 26:29
  There's size and durability, speed, contact balance and
• 26:33
  strength, vision, closer competitiveness, elusiveness,
• 26:38
  hands and receiving and pass blocking.
• 26:41
  So I have a case to make for somebody else for size and
• 26:45
  durability because I kind of want to use Derrick Henry as as
• 26:49
  something else. But I'm not going to be mad if
• 26:52
  we use Derrick Henry for size and durability.
• 26:54
  And the reason I I want to go with somebody else is because
• 26:58
  I'm going to make a case for Najee Harris here I was going.
• 27:02
  To make a piece for Eddie Lacy, but go ahead.
• 27:05
  Is he still? Current No, no.
• 27:07
  OK, so so Naji Harris is 6th 1. Naji Harris is 6th one.
• 27:15
  He's 242 lbs. If we're throwing durability
• 27:18
  into that mix, he has played in all 17 games every year of his
• 27:23
  career, of his four year career and he started all 68 of those
• 27:27
  games. And he's had at least 255
• 27:31
  carries in every single season. And he's had four straight 1000
• 27:34
  yard seasons in terrible offenses.
• 27:37
  In 2021, which was his best statistical season was when the
• 27:42
  passing offense was the best. They ranked 15th in the league.
• 27:46
  In 2022 it was the 9th worst. In 2023 it was the 8th worst,
• 27:50
  and then 2024 it was the 6th worst passing offense.
• 27:54
  So not only does he is he durable, but he's producing with
• 27:58
  a terrible passing offense. So that's my case for Naji
• 28:01
  Harris, but I'm not going to be mad if we go Derrick Henry.
• 28:04
  Oh, so we're just doing out the window?
• 28:06
  I see. I see.
• 28:09
  No. I that case.
• 28:10
  I'm good with Naji, I did not have him down anywhere else on
• 28:13
  my list, so this is good. This does not take a player off
• 28:16
  my list. OK.
• 28:17
  Are you guys cool with that? Yep, I'm good.
• 28:19
  Yep. OK.
• 28:21
  Can I skip to closer? Sure.
• 28:24
  Because that's what I want to use Derrick Henry for.
• 28:26
  As long as long as you're writing these down.
• 28:28
  I have been keeping track. I will keep track OK.
• 28:31
  Sorry I lied. I lied.
• 28:33
  Derrick Henry was one of my options for closure, but I
• 28:36
  actually want to use them for contact balance and strength.
• 28:38
  See, I have Bucky Irving there. That's who I had.
• 28:42
  OK. I don't I don't hate Derrick
• 28:44
  Henry there. I don't know where else we're
• 28:46
  going to use Derrick Henry. I I don't mind closure or
• 28:49
  competitiveness for. So at this point, we're kind of
• 28:54
  running out of Derrick Henry's slots and there's no way he
• 28:56
  can't be on his list. There was so many, there was so
• 28:59
  many places that you could put Derrick Henry.
• 29:02
  OK, I'll, I'm fine with that. I'll go with closer for Derrick
• 29:04
  Henry. And the reason why is because in
• 29:06
  the first half of games last year, he had 146 carries and
• 29:10
  this is throughout every single game.
• 29:12
  So he had 146 carries. He had 740 yards, 5.1 yards per
• 29:17
  carry and eight touchdowns. In the second-half of games, he
• 29:20
  had 175 carries for 1119 yards, 6.4 yards of carry and eight
• 29:27
  touchdowns. So he just gets better
• 29:30
  throughout the game. I had him on my fantasy team
• 29:32
  last year and I remember just being frustrated in several
• 29:35
  games because the first half his stats were just absolute garbage
• 29:39
  because the Ravens just weren't running the ball as much.
• 29:41
  And in the second-half, he finished the game with like 25
• 29:44
  to 30 points because they just pounded the ball at Derrick
• 29:47
  Henry and he closed out the game for.
• 29:50
  Him I had. Sorry.
• 29:51
  You go. No, that's OK.
• 29:53
  I think you can make a case for Saquon Barkley.
• 29:55
  It's pretty close, but I think Derrick Henry is the best closer
• 29:59
  in football when it comes to the running back position and so
• 30:02
  that's why I would want him as the closer.
• 30:04
  I had Jamir Gibbs as my number one there because the Lions were
• 30:08
  often up and they were doing the same thing, hanging the ball off
• 30:11
  to either David Montgomery or Jamir Gibbs.
• 30:12
  I had David Montgomery a different slot.
• 30:14
  So I was like, OK, well, you're going to hand the ball off and
• 30:16
  you just going to pound the rock to finish the game up.
• 30:18
  But Derrick Henry, you're right, he is.
• 30:20
  They do that. The Ravens do that more than
• 30:22
  anybody. His fourth quarter stats are
• 30:25
  often better than his first quarter stats, whether they're
• 30:27
  winning or not. Yes, 100% when when you need to
• 30:32
  win a game, you give it to Derrick Henry.
• 30:34
  So are are you guys cool with that?
• 30:35
  I like it. Yep.
• 30:37
  Cool. All right, All right, Avery,
• 30:39
  pick our next category. Let's do speed.
• 30:43
  OK, who you got? I like Raheem Mostert.
• 30:47
  Mostert, But he hasn't been doing much lately, so I don't.
• 30:51
  I don't really know, but I know that man is fast.
• 30:55
  That man is fast. It came down to two guys or me,
• 30:58
  Devon HN and Jameer Gibbs. Those.
• 31:00
  Were those were also up there? I have.
• 31:03
  I kind of like 18 more than that.
• 31:05
  I have Devon HN as as my one of my guys as well, yeah.
• 31:08
  He ran a four through 2. I think this will offer us some
• 31:12
  good argument. Let's go with vision next.
• 31:15
  OK. I have, even though he can't
• 31:18
  stay healthy. I do have Christian McCaffrey
• 31:20
  here. Yeah.
• 31:21
  Can I make a case for Christian McCaffrey for hands and
• 31:25
  receiving? Before we had our counter with
• 31:28
  Alvin Kamara. OK, OK, OK.
• 31:34
  Make the case. Let's see the case.
• 31:36
  Let's see his case. I'm going to make the.
• 31:37
  Case, I'm going to make the case if, if we're going with no
• 31:40
  injuries and just, you know, it doesn't even matter if we're
• 31:44
  going with injuries or not because we have Naji Harris, who
• 31:47
  has investigated his whole career for this running back.
• 31:50
  So Christian McCaffrey, in the five seasons he's played where
• 31:53
  he's been healthy, the full season, he's had a minimum of 67
• 31:57
  catches and 564 receiving yards. He's had two seasons with over
• 32:02
  100 receptions and one season with over 1000 yards.
• 32:06
  I don't think Kamari even comes close to that.
• 32:09
  I would like to enter into that argument that he is was the only
• 32:15
  real player on the Panthers. So they had no other options.
• 32:20
  Whereas Camara on the Saints, they've had other options.
• 32:24
  They just have not had a consistently good quarterback.
• 32:28
  Now they had Drew Brees, sure be like it's been a while.
• 32:30
  What do you think, Avery? I'm hung up on something.
• 32:34
  Break the tie. Well, for the hands, I almost
• 32:38
  wonder because I think David H and is.
• 32:43
  Devon H and is the Yeah. That wasn't me this time.
• 32:46
  I'll, I'll mess it up every time.
• 32:47
  Dude, whoever spelled Devon, your mother, whoever your great
• 32:53
  great grandfather was that decided that last name, I'd you
• 32:56
  have to hear it first before you know how to say that.
• 33:01
  I think he's the best choice for receiving and it makes me wonder
• 33:04
  if there's a better speed option because I think he might even be
• 33:07
  better than. Alvin Kamara, OK, Can I make a
• 33:11
  case for? Can I make a case for Jameer
• 33:13
  Gibbs for receiving them? You can try.
• 33:16
  I could be. Convinced.
• 33:17
  OK, so while he's splitting time, he was third among running
• 33:22
  backs in yards with 517 on 52 catches, but his average is 9.9
• 33:29
  yards. If you look at Devon HN, his
• 33:32
  average is 7.6 yards. Now, that may have to do with
• 33:35
  the team, because the Lions had a better overall team than the
• 33:39
  Dolphins do, but he's basically giving you a first down every
• 33:43
  time he catches the ball. Yeah, but didn't agent have
• 33:48
  agent had more touchdowns? But he had more.
• 33:51
  I can. See what you're saying?
• 33:53
  He had more catches. He had 78 catches, which is 26
• 33:57
  more than Gibbs, but he also only had what's that like?
• 34:02
  I can't do math that will five 92592 yards and Gibbs had 517
• 34:07
  yards on 26 less catches. Yeah.
• 34:10
  I mean, I could see that being just the scheme where, you know,
• 34:13
  they're just throwing it a little deeper.
• 34:15
  But yeah, I mean, I don't know at this point.
• 34:18
  I'm kind of I'm calling pulling at hairs right here.
• 34:21
  They're. Basically, yeah, there's there's
• 34:22
  a lot of good options. I would also like to enter into
• 34:24
  this argument for hands since we've moved after vision.
• 34:26
  That's fine, I didn't pick that and you're.
• 34:28
  Gonna answer yourself, will. I am not.
• 34:30
  I'm going to say Austin Eckler. He what?
• 34:35
  OK. I mean, he was when you were in
• 34:39
  fantasy football, you wanted Austin Eckler for your for your.
• 34:44
  Oh gosh, points per catch. We're going with right now
• 34:47
  though, right? Because he wasn't.
• 34:48
  He wasn't very good last year. Well, he's also back up.
• 34:52
  We went right now. I thought we were somebody said
• 34:54
  Prime, prime player earlier. It was probably me, Adam.
• 34:57
  Are we going with right now stats?
• 34:59
  Because that does change. Are we supposed to be?
• 35:01
  We're supposed to be doing right now.
• 35:03
  Oh, OK, OK then. Yeah, I I thought.
• 35:06
  Yeah, in the thing I said for for running backs, we're doing
• 35:08
  current in their current form, right?
• 35:10
  OK then yeah, definitely not. Well then that.
• 35:13
  Honestly, that takes my Alvin Kamara argument away too.
• 35:17
  I don't think he should be in for his current stats.
• 35:19
  Don't. You believe me?
• 35:23
  Sorry. Sorry.
• 35:27
  All right, now I. Don't know where to go.
• 35:28
  What category are we doing? Who are we picking?
• 35:31
  Let's. Let's decide.
• 35:33
  Yeah, let's decide on hands first.
• 35:35
  I'm sorry you go. No, you go.
• 35:38
  No, you go first. I was thinking maybe I'm on the
• 35:42
  side of Joel then with I don't know how healthy he is right
• 35:46
  now. I haven't seen this man play in
• 35:48
  like 3 years it feels like but. I I can agree with.
• 35:52
  That keep it, keep in mind we have Najee Harris's size and
• 35:55
  durability. So yes, if somebody else's
• 35:58
  everything, I guess, I guess. What I was referring to meaning
• 36:02
  like if he's still not at full strength.
• 36:05
  We did say current, current. Well, his hands.
• 36:10
  Like, here's the thing though, his hands.
• 36:12
  If he's ever bring his. Hands right now and there's dish
• 36:14
  soap on it. He's not going to be able to
• 36:17
  catch. We're talking current, current.
• 36:21
  I'm being dumb. I'm being needlessly difficult.
• 36:25
  OK, Avery, you're up. No, Joel, you're up.
• 36:28
  I'm sorry. We didn't finish our vision
• 36:29
  conversation either. Talking Scarlet Witch.
• 36:32
  Yes, but so I guess, well that takes out your guy though,
• 36:37
  right? Because if we do McCaffrey at
• 36:38
  hands, then you didn't have McCaffrey, you had McCaffrey at
• 36:42
  vision. Correct.
• 36:43
  OK, I'm going to go with Saquon Barkley for vision.
• 36:47
  Oh. Interesting, I have him at
• 36:49
  competitiveness. Oh, I don't think you guys are
• 36:52
  going to like my competitiveness 1.
• 36:55
  Why? Because he's not competitive?
• 36:56
  Or because we. Don't know Marge Jackson?
• 36:59
  No, because it's Cam scataboo, that's why.
• 37:02
  Oh. I don't hate that.
• 37:05
  Actually, I don't hate that at all.
• 37:07
  I didn't think about rookies I hadn't played yet because I
• 37:09
  didn't care about them yet, but I actually don't take that.
• 37:13
  And if you want me to make a case, I will because.
• 37:16
  I want you to make a case based on everything other than the
• 37:20
  playoff game, where the entire game all the commentators did
• 37:24
  was talk about his competitiveness.
• 37:27
  No, it's not just that game. It's it's his whole season.
• 37:31
  I know, which is what they talked about during that game.
• 37:33
  All I'm saying is I remember watching that game because I've
• 37:35
  seen him play before. I was watching a lot of college
• 37:37
  football and I'm like, they are really hitting on this, almost
• 37:40
  like this is some like concerted propaganda effort.
• 37:44
  Like it was weird. Like I know he's competitive.
• 37:46
  I'm not saying he's not competitive, but it was weird
• 37:50
  how much they showed that man, even though they were losing
• 37:53
  like the whole game. I mean, I guess they almost kind
• 37:56
  of came back a little bit, but. That's.
• 37:58
  Just me. That's just me hating sports
• 38:01
  media, but go ahead. Even, I guess technically we're
• 38:03
  kind of part of that now. I mean, I honestly think that
• 38:08
  Cam Scatterboo might actually be one of the most competitive
• 38:10
  running backs I've ever seen. I mean, you're on record on this
• 38:14
  show saying that you want him. If you want a tough player on
• 38:17
  your team, if you want a guy who's going to show up and be it
• 38:21
  and add toughness to your locker room, get Cam Scatibo.
• 38:25
  Exactly. He I mean, he's always been
• 38:26
  doubted. He's never been considered the
• 38:28
  best. All he does on every single play
• 38:32
  is just compete. That's all he does.
• 38:35
  You can see it on his face after every play that he just wants to
• 38:38
  go out there and compete. And I think this he's going to
• 38:41
  be a perfect fit for the giants because the giants have been
• 38:44
  lacking competitiveness for a long time.
• 38:46
  I think they added that with Malik neighbors when they
• 38:48
  drafted him last season. I think he brought some
• 38:51
  competitiveness to their team as a rookie, but I think Cam
• 38:54
  Skadboo brings a ton of competitiveness that the Giants
• 38:57
  have not had for a long time to this team.
• 39:00
  And I again, I'll say, I'll say it again, I think he's one of
• 39:03
  the most competitive running backs that I've ever watched
• 39:05
  play. So if I'm going to have a
• 39:07
  running back where I need competitiveness, I would go with
• 39:11
  Cam Scatterboo. I'm looking at this dude right
• 39:13
  now on Google images. This man looks like he would
• 39:18
  easily survive a car crash. Like he just looks like a tank.
• 39:26
  His back, his face looks like he's built to withstand impact
• 39:31
  and whiplash. I also had I also hadn't hear
• 39:35
  Josh Jacobs for competitiveness, but I I agree with the cams guy
• 39:39
  though and we still haven't answered the vision question.
• 39:42
  We keep starting it and he's going I.
• 39:44
  Thought we did sequin. No.
• 39:47
  I brought up sequin but we no. I said I have sequin in a
• 39:50
  different spot. What spot do you have Saquon in?
• 39:54
  Me competitiveness. Now what?
• 39:56
  OK, well, where else in competitiveness then?
• 40:01
  Oh no. No, no, no, no.
• 40:03
  Sorry, sorry. We're moving.
• 40:04
  We're putting a Cam scatter by that.
• 40:05
  Right, right. Sorry.
• 40:07
  Yes, OK. Where do you where do you have
• 40:10
  Saquon now then? Where am I moving him to God?
• 40:13
  Oh, OK. OK.
• 40:14
  So we don't have any. No, we don't sold on anything.
• 40:16
  Saquon is not on this list yet. OK.
• 40:19
  Who did we already do contact balance strength?
• 40:23
  No, no. So we still have that.
• 40:24
  We still have vision, we still have elusiveness and pass
• 40:28
  blocking. You know, in the spirit of going
• 40:33
  with an unproven rookie, you know who I like for contact
• 40:36
  balance and strength? No, no, it's action Genting.
• 40:41
  It's for sure Action Genting. Yes, yes.
• 40:44
  That was a pure. You would know for that I knew
• 40:47
  you may action Genting as I may do.
• 40:50
  Let's let's do the let's do the UNC thing.
• 40:53
  And that's, and that's purely, I mean, again, we'll see how it
• 40:56
  goes in the NFL, of course, right?
• 40:58
  But at Boise State? Jeez, this dude just.
• 41:01
  You're right, based off the current knowledge we have, I
• 41:04
  don't hate that Joe. For contact balance, strength,
• 41:07
  yeah, I have. Since we already used Derrick
• 41:11
  Henry, I have Josh Jacobs. And the reason I have Josh
• 41:14
  Jacobs is because since 2020 he's second in the league in
• 41:18
  yards after contact with 2689 it.
• 41:22
  Last year he had 639 rushing yards, which was second in the
• 41:25
  league. So he's second in yards after
• 41:28
  contact last year and yards after contact since 2020 behind
• 41:32
  Derrick Henry in both categories.
• 41:34
  So that's why I put him in that category as my second guy.
• 41:37
  But I'm also OK going another way.
• 41:40
  And for my second in this category, I had Nick Chubb,
• 41:43
  who's not going to get stats last year, but who definitely
• 41:47
  contact balance the strength. Nick Chubb is definitely up
• 41:49
  there. But I based on current activity,
• 41:55
  I think I'm good with Ashton Gente, actually, yeah.
• 41:58
  I'm not going to, I'm not going to fight Ashton Gente.
• 42:00
  Cool. You want to go Ashton Gente?
• 42:02
  I already typed it in, we're moving on.
• 42:05
  What do we have left? We have vision, we have
• 42:08
  elusiveness and we have pass blocking.
• 42:11
  I feel like elusiveness has to be Saquan.
• 42:14
  We have yet to use Saquan. Unless, unless we go.
• 42:17
  Unless we go Saquan for vision. Because I also could make a case
• 42:21
  for Bucky Irving for elusiveness, if you want me to.
• 42:24
  Do we already? Do we not use Bucky yet?
• 42:26
  We have not used. Bucky Irving.
• 42:28
  Avery, we both talked about Bucky for for contact balance
• 42:32
  and strength, but we moved off with him.
• 42:34
  I like. I like Bucky for elusiveness and
• 42:38
  take one provision. Just because I love numbers, I'm
• 42:40
  going to tell you some numbers for Bucky Earring.
• 42:42
  So elusiveness. He's forced 62 missed tackles
• 42:45
  and LED the NFL with 3.93 yards after contact per attempt last
• 42:50
  year with a minimum of 150 carries.
• 42:54
  He also forced a missed tackle on 35.8% of his touches, which
• 42:59
  was the top rate in the NFL with a minimum of 100 touches.
• 43:02
  So the gas pretty elusive. I like it.
• 43:05
  Sorry, I'm updating our list so I don't reuse people.
• 43:08
  Yes. If you're good with that, Will,
• 43:10
  then I think we should go Bucky Irving for elusiveness and
• 43:13
  Saquon Barkley for vision. I concur.
• 43:16
  I feel like if you can make a run and you can jump over a guy
• 43:20
  backwards and know that you're not going to get wrecked when
• 43:23
  you land, yeah, that's some sort of vision.
• 43:26
  Yeah, for sure. OK, our last is pass blocking.
• 43:31
  Let's take the lead here. Have.
• 43:32
  James Conner. I have Tony Pollard.
• 43:35
  Probably James Conner. I also like Tony Pollard, but.
• 43:42
  I also have Kyron Williams on there.
• 43:44
  I could not think of his past blocking at this point.
• 43:47
  Yeah, my my first guy was James Conner because this is a 2022
• 43:51
  stat. I couldn't find 2024 stats but
• 43:54
  he had the third highest PFF pass blocking grade among
• 43:57
  running backs with 73.8 which doesn't seem that high.
• 44:01
  But Saquon Barkley had a 75.5 which was the highest that
• 44:05
  season. And it doesn't really make sense
• 44:06
  to me because James Conner had 84 pass blocking snaps and
• 44:10
  allowed four pressures and Saquon had 83 snaps with allowed
• 44:14
  six pressures but had a better pass blocking grade somehow.
• 44:17
  So I don't know exactly how that works, but I feel like if you
• 44:21
  only allow four total pressures on 84 pass blocking snaps as a
• 44:24
  running back, you're doing a pretty damn good job of blocking
• 44:27
  gas. That's fair.
• 44:29
  That can be easy and convinced sense.
• 44:32
  I will. So when you're ready, when
• 44:35
  you've got it all written down, tell us who our ultimate running
• 44:38
  back is. Yep.
• 44:40
  So for size and durability, we have Naji Harris.
• 44:43
  For speed, we have Devon Adrian, right?
• 44:46
  Yeah. Yeah, crush that crushed it so
• 44:51
  good. Anyway, for contact balance and
• 44:54
  strength, we have Ashton Genti. For vision, we have Saquon
• 44:57
  Barkley. For elusiveness, we have Bucky
• 44:59
  Irving. For hands receiving, we have
• 45:02
  Christian McCaffrey. For Black and we have James
• 45:05
  Conner. For closing ability, we have
• 45:08
  Derrick Henry. And for competitive
• 45:10
  competitiveness we have Cam Scatabo.
• 45:14
  Notably not on this list, neither David Montgomery or
• 45:18
  Jamir Gibbs. Or Bijan.
• 45:21
  Or Bijan Robinson. Yeah, I did have him as one of
• 45:24
  my guys for Vision, but because we hadn't used Saquon, I had to
• 45:28
  go Saquon over Dijon. Would our running back be the
• 45:31
  best running back in the NFL? It better be.
• 45:34
  I would hope so. I want to say almost seems like
• 45:38
  the this guy seems like he's your Madden player, right?
• 45:41
  Like let me just get all the best stuff and just make it and
• 45:44
  I'm just the best way you can get 500 rushing yards a game and
• 45:48
  just be so good and you play it for 5 minutes, right?
• 45:50
  OK, well I'm too good now. I'm bored.
• 45:53
  This is like, this is like those, it's like the My Player
• 45:56
  or the Road to Glory or whatever the mode is where you create
• 45:59
  your own player and now you have skill caps.
• 46:03
  But like 15 years ago, I remember the games like never
• 46:06
  had skill caps. And so you could eventually just
• 46:08
  make AI mean you get to 99 overall when all of your stats
• 46:12
  are at like 80 or like 85. And then you can just keep going
• 46:16
  up. And it's like, I don't know how
• 46:17
  much higher this would be, but it caps at 99, but he's been at
• 46:21
  99 for a long time and it's just unstoppable.
• 46:24
  And at that point, you can make yourself 8 feet tall. 4 feet
• 46:27
  tall doesn't matter. And Steph?
• 46:31
  All right, so we have time for one more topic.
• 46:33
  We actually had two more planned, but we have one more.
• 46:35
  So would you guys rather talk about Trevor Lawrence or JJ
• 46:41
  McCarthy? How much time do we have?
• 46:43
  I feel like the Trevor Lawrence soccer will be longer because we
• 46:46
  don't know anything about JJ McCarthy.
• 46:48
  Let's. Talk about if that's the case.
• 46:50
  If that's the case, let's go, JJ.
• 46:51
  Yep. OK, so the question is, what
• 46:54
  would it take for you to consider JJ McCarthy's first
• 46:57
  season as a starter a success? Staying healthy.
• 47:00
  Let's start with there. OK, that's fair.
• 47:02
  I would say doing as well as Sam Darnold did last season.
• 47:06
  Oh, that's such a high bar. That is such a very.
• 47:09
  High bar, Yep, Yep. But that's that is and and and
• 47:12
  I, I do it for a reason. They basically, with time, not
• 47:17
  even put into a pressure situation, basically decided
• 47:21
  we're going to let Sam Darnold loose and we are going to,
• 47:23
  instead of pick up another quarterback, we are going to go
• 47:26
  with the unproven guy we drafted last year.
• 47:29
  So I'm hoping, because at this point, it looks like what you're
• 47:31
  basically betting against is do I just think he'll do a good job
• 47:36
  or do I think that Kevin O'Connell and the entire
• 47:39
  coaching staff for a full year have just been duped or tricked
• 47:43
  by this boy to get the starting job?
• 47:46
  I feel like they clearly have to have a lot of confidence in him.
• 47:49
  They have a great team. Like it's rare that a rookie
• 47:54
  quarterback gets put into this situation.
• 47:57
  If you put this quarterback in there, I mean, now.
• 47:59
  And he he he he's a Blake Griffin freshman, you know, like
• 48:03
  it's, it's like, yeah, you're you're a you're a rookie, but
• 48:06
  like, are you? So The thing is, you put him in
• 48:09
  there, he has all the protection he needs.
• 48:11
  He has the weapons he needs at that point.
• 48:14
  Yeah, if you can't do as well as Sam Darnold like it, to me
• 48:18
  that's not a success. Sam Darnold is, is the is the
• 48:22
  town, the town floozy man. You just pass him around to what
• 48:26
  her team needs. Needs a slightly above average
• 48:29
  quarterback. If your guy isn't at least
• 48:32
  slightly above average, it's not it's not a success.
• 48:36
  Like you kind of wasted it. You should have either been
• 48:39
  helping or mentoring someone else, vetting someone else, or
• 48:44
  just at least have a better backup.
• 48:46
  So are you saying are you saying like stats wise Avery or like
• 48:50
  wins wise or both? Both.
• 48:53
  OK, hold on. Here we go.
• 48:55
  Hold on. Allow me please.
• 48:56
  Joel, you always do stats. Allow me to do some stats.
• 48:59
  Here go. Go, go.
• 49:00
  OK, so Sam Darnold last year. Let's just start with number of
• 49:03
  attempts. Sam Darnold threw the ball 545
• 49:07
  times last year. JJ McCarthy in college never
• 49:11
  threw the ball over 340 times in a season.
• 49:15
  Now there are less games, true, but in college your playoff,
• 49:22
  your postseason stats count towards your seat your whole
• 49:25
  season stats. And so in 15 games Sam Darnold's
• 49:29
  stats are for 17 games without in two less 2 less games stat
• 49:33
  wise. Also skill wise they're not the
• 49:36
  same either. So like college versus NFL.
• 49:39
  So in 15 games, McCarthy threw completed 240 out of 332.
• 49:45
  That was his best percentage year of 72%, which is really
• 49:48
  good. 72% completion percentage is incredible.
• 49:51
  He didn't even break 3000 yards. He only threw for 22 touchdowns.
• 49:56
  Now they did win the national championship that year, right?
• 49:59
  So that that's great. Michigan won the national
• 50:01
  championship that year. Last year for Sam Donald, 17
• 50:05
  games he threw he completed more passes than JJ McCarthy threw in
• 50:11
  his last season of playing football.
• 50:13
  Now he played technically played football last season doesn't
• 50:16
  really count. Sandra also threw for 4300 yards
• 50:19
  and 35 touchdowns. So he threw for was that 23
• 50:23
  right? Nope, 13 I can match 13 more
• 50:26
  touchdowns, 2000 more yards or 1300 more 1400 more yards.
• 50:31
  Excuse me? There's just no way that a
• 50:36
  healthy Vikings fan can expect the same thing out of JJ
• 50:41
  McCarthy versus out of Sam Donald.
• 50:44
  I, I want to respond to that before Joel Hobson.
• 50:47
  One, Michigan is a running team. The reason it it, it would be
• 50:52
  one thing if he just had a whole bunch of incompletions,
• 50:56
  interceptions, whatever it is. That's one of the things when
• 50:59
  they won the national championship, the man performed
• 51:01
  his role and that was enough. They won the championship.
• 51:04
  I want to point out, though, that it's less about the system
• 51:09
  you weren't in college and more about the system you're in now.
• 51:11
  Sam Darnold threw for 4300 yards last season, 35 touchdowns, 12
• 51:16
  interceptions. The year before that 297 yards.
• 51:20
  The year before that, 1100 yards.
• 51:22
  The year before that, 2500 yards, 2200 yards, 3000 yards,
• 51:26
  Back to 2800. So he had a monumental season
• 51:30
  last year to the point where you have to ask yourself, did he
• 51:35
  just suddenly get better in Year 7?
• 51:38
  Or do the Vikings have a great system to support their
• 51:41
  quarterback? And that's why I say, look, you
• 51:44
  had Sam Darnold. I don't I don't know the
• 51:47
  situation with his contract, if he was just going to leave
• 51:49
  anyways or the Vikings were like, hey, we're cutting you
• 51:52
  loose regardless. To me, I see it for from the
• 51:55
  Vikings front office, dude, clearly Sam Darnold wasn't
• 51:58
  cutting it for you. You let him go and you're
• 52:00
  letting your new rookie start. They they weren't out there in
• 52:04
  the quarterback sweepstakes trying to land some big name
• 52:07
  they got. They got Sam Howell as a backup
• 52:10
  to JJ McCarthy. In my mind, I see it as like, I
• 52:13
  see it as a little bit of a strategic move, but also he's
• 52:16
  not good enough where the fans are going to be clamoring for
• 52:19
  him to start. It's not going to be this drama
• 52:21
  thing, but I see that as like, OK, he had this monumental
• 52:25
  season. You got rid of him in
• 52:27
  preparation for the guy you drafted and vetted and prepared
• 52:31
  for a whole year. If you can't replicate that and
• 52:35
  and look, if Sam Darnold had 4300 yards and this guy has 3900
• 52:40
  yards and two less touchdowns and you know, three more
• 52:44
  interceptions, I see that as relatively the same.
• 52:47
  But what you're what they're looking for is wins.
• 52:49
  So that's the big thing. If you can, if you can get wins.
• 52:51
  If he's not getting benched, she's not throwing pigs all over
• 52:54
  the place. And they win more.
• 52:55
  They win more than one playoff game.
• 52:58
  I see that as a success. I see that as just as good, if
• 53:01
  not better. So I reached out to our friends
• 53:04
  at Cheese Heads and the Bear podcast because they also have a
• 53:07
  Vikings fan on their podcast. And so I asked them to give me
• 53:12
  some insight on this question. And So what the the Vikings fan
• 53:16
  said is he would consider it a success if the Vikings make the
• 53:20
  playoffs, even if they lose in the first round of the playoffs,
• 53:23
  as long as they make the playoffs, he would consider it a
• 53:26
  success. He didn't say that they have to
• 53:28
  win 14 games because that's insane.
• 53:31
  Like that's extremely hard to do for any team, especially in
• 53:34
  back-to-back years that he just said if they make the playoffs,
• 53:38
  even if they lose in the first round, that would be a success.
• 53:41
  Now, I think that that's fair to say, but I also think it's
• 53:46
  somewhat unfair to say. And the reason why I think it's
• 53:50
  fair to say is because you have JJ McCarthy, who you picked 10th
• 53:54
  overall. So when you pick a guy at 10
• 53:56
  overall, especially as a quarterback, you are expecting
• 53:58
  that guy to be your franchise quarterback very quickly.
• 54:03
  And I, I think it's, I think it's fair because this team went
• 54:08
  fourteen and three last year and you know, this team doesn't have
• 54:11
  a lot of holes. When you talk to people about
• 54:13
  the Vikings, they're not saying, oh, they, you know, they need
• 54:16
  this, this, this and this. Like there's not a whole lot of
• 54:19
  holes on that team. When you talk about the Vikings
• 54:21
  with other people, it's I don't know what JJ McCarthy is going
• 54:25
  to be. That's literally the one
• 54:27
  question that people have about the about the Vikings is JJ
• 54:31
  McCarthy. Everything else, there's not
• 54:33
  really, there's not really a big question.
• 54:35
  There's not really a big hole there.
• 54:37
  So this team is very solid. So I do think it's fair in that
• 54:40
  regard to expect that out of JJ McCarthy.
• 54:43
  The other reason why I think it's fair is because, like you
• 54:47
  mentioned, Avery, they had Sam Darnold, who was not good before
• 54:50
  he went to Minnesota. He just wasn't good.
• 54:53
  And then he comes to Minnesota and he has this career season
• 54:57
  and, you know, it was a different head coach.
• 54:59
  But like we've mentioned before, Minnesota did that same exact
• 55:02
  thing with Case Keenan when he was there.
• 55:04
  And so Minnesota just has this way of making quarterbacks
• 55:07
  better than they are now. I think it's unfair to JJ
• 55:11
  McCarthy because this is a guy who's played in one preseason
• 55:15
  game. He's thrown a total of 17 passes
• 55:19
  in a preseason game. And it's not like that.
• 55:22
  Last season, he was sitting behind Sam Darnold and he was
• 55:25
  doing the all the reps in practice because he was hurt.
• 55:28
  He wasn't getting all those reps in practice.
• 55:30
  So yes, he was sitting and learning, but he didn't have the
• 55:35
  opportunity to actually apply anything that he learned because
• 55:38
  he was hurt. And so I don't think it's fair
• 55:40
  to to say that he has to make the playoffs in order for it to
• 55:45
  be a success. This may be a little lenient of
• 55:47
  me, but I'm going to give him eight games.
• 55:49
  I want to see what he does in the first eight games.
• 55:51
  And after that I want to see him improve because that would give
• 55:55
  him actual playing experience, play playing and starting
• 55:58
  experience. And then after that, I want to
• 56:01
  see him just get better because he's had the ear to sit and
• 56:05
  learn the system, but now that gives him enough time to
• 56:08
  actually go out there and apply what he's learned in that
• 56:11
  system. So if I don't see JJ McCarthy
• 56:14
  after the first eight games get better, then that's going to be
• 56:17
  a disappointment to me. But if he gets better after
• 56:20
  those first eight games, I think that would be a successful
• 56:22
  season even if the Vikings don't make the playoffs.
• 56:25
  I don't think the fact that he was hurt and not getting reps, I
• 56:30
  don't think that affects him at all.
• 56:31
  If anything, I think he can work on mechanics, work on game plan,
• 56:35
  and then just little intangible things.
• 56:37
  I think that that year, as long as he used it wisely and I think
• 56:41
  Kevin O'Connell made sure he did basically just focus on get
• 56:46
  ready mentally so that next year you're ready.
• 56:48
  As soon as your body is ready, we're good to go.
• 56:51
  And it seemed like that was the plan the whole time, at least up
• 56:55
  until they Sam Darnold was dropped where it's like traded
• 56:58
  or whatever it was. I just see that as OK.
• 57:01
  You have no excuse not to be ready.
• 57:04
  He tore his meniscus. He didn't he it wasn't an ACL.
• 57:07
  It wasn't anything like something like really bad.
• 57:11
  It was like, Nah, genuinely, this takes a few months to heal
• 57:14
  from. They just put him on injured
• 57:16
  reserve. He's ready to go.
• 57:18
  So at this point, I mean, to me, I see this as if you're a
• 57:21
  quarterback, if you're a rookie quarterback, this is the best
• 57:24
  possible situation you could be in.
• 57:25
  I mean, obviously you have the limelight on you, but you've had
• 57:28
  a full year now to figure out the system.
• 57:30
  You're not, you're not a rookie hauling your teammates bags,
• 57:34
  dealing with the press, trying to figure everything out.
• 57:37
  You're you're ready like you are ready to go.
• 57:40
  You have the full confidence of the entire coaching staff.
• 57:42
  You've been playing with these guys for a while now.
• 57:45
  Like to me, I'm like, you're a professional.
• 57:46
  You're not a college kid anymore.
• 57:48
  This is it. So I that's why I see it as
• 57:51
  like, dude, very rarely do rookie quarterbacks ever have a
• 57:54
  nice offensive line. You've got it all.
• 57:57
  You've got weapons. To me, I, I, I don't even, I
• 58:00
  wouldn't even grade him as a rookie quarterback.
• 58:02
  I'd see him as a just a normal quarterback.
• 58:04
  It's like, Kay, you've got a great system around you.
• 58:07
  Say what? He's not a rookie quarterback.
• 58:09
  It's his first year starting. He's not a rookie.
• 58:12
  I mean, yeah, he played a preseason game.
• 58:15
  Yeah, Ben Simmons season. That doesn't happen.
• 58:17
  All that to say. Comparing anyone to Ben Simmons
• 58:20
  is just brutal. That's why you.
• 58:23
  Played gratin earlier. That's just not fair to anybody.
• 58:26
  I just think, I mean, I don't, I don't know if he's going to be
• 58:29
  good or not, but I think that the college stats doesn't mean
• 58:32
  that he's not going to be a great passer.
• 58:34
  I've seen, I watched his preseason game, like the
• 58:36
  highlights there, it looks solid.
• 58:38
  There was nothing in there that was making me think that this
• 58:40
  guy's not going to make it. Then again, it's one game, a
• 58:43
  preseason game against preseason opponents.
• 58:46
  But I'll have to say I think he's got all the tools.
• 58:49
  If he fails here, it's it really comes down to him.
• 58:51
  So it is one of those things where I kind of agree with Joel
• 58:54
  there. Eight games.
• 58:55
  Like, look, if you can't make it happen here, dude, there are
• 58:58
  tons of quarterbacks that would kill for that to be in that
• 59:03
  position. So I have a question for Will.
• 59:05
  Yes. So you're not high on JJ
• 59:09
  McCarthy because you think that he was like carried by the
• 59:12
  running game at Michigan, Is that correct?
• 59:14
  Yes, I mean that's that's factual.
• 59:16
  OK, OK, so so these are also facts.
• 59:20
  You are you are very high on Will Howard.
• 59:26
  Yes, you are very high on Will Howard.
• 59:27
  OK, no. OK.
• 59:30
  So in JJ McCarthy's last year when he won the national
• 59:33
  Championship, his top three running backs combined for 1964
• 59:39
  rushing yards. But in Will Howard's last year
• 59:43
  when he won the national championship, his top 2 running
• 59:45
  backs combined for 2076 rushing yards.
• 59:49
  So those top 2 running backs combined for more yards than JJ
• 59:52
  McCarthy's top 3 running backs. So.
• 59:56
  I may, I may do this. All right.
• 59:59
  Let's you finish. And Will Howard had Emeka Ibuka
• 1:00:02
  and Jeremiah Smith. JJ McCarthy did not have
• 1:00:04
  anywhere near the receivers that will.
• 1:00:06
  You're right, you're right. He also did not have the same
• 1:00:09
  competition in 2024. The Big 10 changed significantly
• 1:00:14
  in a competition with. He still had Ohio State.
• 1:00:16
  Sure, one team, right? Penn State.
• 1:00:19
  Penn State. They play in the Big 10, you're
• 1:00:23
  right. Rutgers.
• 1:00:24
  Just just because Oregon wasn't there.
• 1:00:26
  Northwestern. Yeah, we can that that.
• 1:00:28
  That that, that is what it sounded like.
• 1:00:30
  They didn't play Oregon. The Big 10 was, the Big 10 was
• 1:00:34
  Oregon less. Honestly though, like like the
• 1:00:38
  Big 10 in 2024 was harder than the Big 10 in 2023.
• 1:00:43
  Agree or disagree, it was a more challenging division.
• 1:00:46
  Agree or disagree. True.
• 1:00:49
  The Big 10 before, yeah. But Ohio State was a more
• 1:00:54
  stacked team than Michigan. I can agree with that,
• 1:00:56
  absolutely. You're right and best team money
• 1:00:58
  could buy. I I don't doubt that is not that
• 1:01:04
  is not wrong. I I just still view Will Howard
• 1:01:08
  as a better quarterback than I do JJ McCarthy.
• 1:01:11
  And I'm sure I'm going to eat those words eventually, but when
• 1:01:14
  Will Howard wins Rookie of the year this year and JJ McCarthy
• 1:01:18
  maybe wins five games? That's just the way it's going
• 1:01:21
  to be. Let me enter this into the JJ
• 1:01:23
  McCarthy conversation the Vikings have.
• 1:01:26
  Now, again, these numbers are all garbage because nobody knows
• 1:01:28
  yet. But the Vikings have
• 1:01:30
  statistically the 5th hardest strength of schedule right now.
• 1:01:34
  They have the 5th hardest schedule in the NFL.
• 1:01:37
  Granted, anything, all of these numbers could change because who
• 1:01:40
  knows who's going to get hurt in this side and the other.
• 1:01:43
  And so throwing JJ McCarthy into that right off the bat, yes, the
• 1:01:48
  Vikings seem to be able to be the miracle worker for
• 1:01:51
  quarterbacks. And yeah, he's a the top ten
• 1:01:53
  pick and is AFL player. So obviously, obviously he's got
• 1:01:58
  skill. I, I just don't view, I don't
• 1:02:02
  view it as a good starting opportunity for him.
• 1:02:05
  I'm afraid he's going to get overwhelmed or or over, yeah,
• 1:02:11
  get ahead of his keys or think his expectations are too high
• 1:02:15
  because of the Sam Donald from last year that the expectation
• 1:02:19
  is going to be too high. And so he's going to get inside
• 1:02:21
  his own head for it. To me, a success for for JJ
• 1:02:24
  McCarthy this year is maintaining second place in the
• 1:02:28
  NFC North. I I think if they can get second
• 1:02:32
  place in NFC North, assuming the Lions don't have injuries,
• 1:02:35
  right? If if everything stays of
• 1:02:37
  course, as it was last year, getting second place in NFC
• 1:02:40
  North and possibly making the playoffs, I think it's a
• 1:02:43
  success. I don't think 3rd place is a
• 1:02:45
  failure. 4th place in NFC North, that's going to be a failure.
• 1:02:49
  3rd place I think is is third place is a a good season. 2nd
• 1:02:54
  place is a successful season. Wins and losses are going to
• 1:02:57
  come and go. All he's saying is they just
• 1:02:59
  have to beat the Bears. Yeah, Honestly, yeah.
• 1:03:02
  And and the Bears are going to be better this year.
• 1:03:05
  The Bears are going to be better.
• 1:03:06
  They play in arguably the hardest division in the NFL.
• 1:03:09
  And you're you are throwing this guy in who was not frankly, a
• 1:03:15
  throwing quarterback in college. And you're putting on a team
• 1:03:19
  that likes to throw the ball a lot or at least likes to throw
• 1:03:22
  the ball a lot last year. And if they're not going to do
• 1:03:25
  that, they sure that means they're changing their offense.
• 1:03:27
  And their whole offense is going to have to be revamped, which
• 1:03:30
  means your whole system has to be revamped, which means you
• 1:03:32
  don't have anywhere close to the same thing you had last year.
• 1:03:35
  You may have the same players, but the team is completely
• 1:03:37
  different. And it would be smart, sorry.
• 1:03:39
  It would be smart for Kevin O'Connell to change the team to
• 1:03:42
  fit the quarterback, not to just expect JJ McCarthy to be Sam
• 1:03:49
  Darnold from last year. OK.
• 1:03:51
  All right. Well, if you are listening to
• 1:03:54
  this podcast, let us know in the comments what you think about JJ
• 1:03:57
  McCarthy and what you would consider a successful season for
• 1:04:01
  JJ McCarthy. So that's it for episode 19 of
• 1:04:05
  Three Guys, 6 Balls NFL Podcast. But next week we have a 49ers
• 1:04:10
  fan coming on the show and we're going to talk 49ers and we're
• 1:04:14
  also going to talk some probably some Trevor Lawrence since we
• 1:04:17
  didn't get to talk about him today.
• 1:04:19
  But that's all we have for today.
• 1:04:20
  And as always, don't forget to keep your balls played with.
• 1:04:23
  We'll see you next time. Also, Mark Davis and Sarah Kyle
• 1:04:26
  still sucks.