Latest / The Backdrop Podcast / Episode 13 - AJ Amer, Founder and CEO of AKUGGI

Transcript

Episode 13 - AJ Amer, Founder and CEO of AKUGGI · The Backdrop Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the backdrop.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This week's guest is an events industry leader turned AI pioneer, with more than 18 years behind some of the world's most ambitious live events, major ceremonies, and large-scale experiences.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: His career has taken him from Fan Expo HQ across North America to Expo 2020 Dubai and Expo City Dubai before senior leadership roles with Richard Atias and Associates.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's focused on what comes next, using AI to help event professionals work smarter, move faster, and make better decisions, without losing the human expertise that makes great events happen.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: This week on the backdrop, I'm joined by A.J.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Amer, founder and CEO of Akugian.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really good to see you.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've got this is our second Canadian.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think we might have hit our quota.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unless someday I can convince the amazing Mac Brody to sit in front of me.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but great to have you here.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: You got some really cool stuff going on.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: How's everything for you?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, first of all, thank you for having me.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh things have been busy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Things have been really, really busy.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I thought this summer might take a little bit of a dip, but on the contrary, uh, I've been building and it's been exciting.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I really look forward to share everything that I've done with everybody, hopefully today.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've got some really, really cool concepts, and and what you're doing is seems quite niche.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Niche meaning very uh pioneeristic.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's really, really some cool stuff.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you worked on some pretty heavy-duty events, some really big names, event-wise, and a lot of expensive events.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, where do you uh I want to I want to get an idea of of how you feel about uh what people are spending?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Some events are spending uh what could be seen as sort of disproportionate amounts, like a lot of money.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where does sort of the vision sort of end and the money start?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, where what are people spending on that they don't need to?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And to be completely honest, um it nowadays it's all about the spectacle and not the journey.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the way I've operated and the way I've seen success in the past is always about building a decent journey from beginning to end.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um let's start off with a very basic example.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're at a restaurant, the valet is excellent, the hostess was excellent, the waitress was absolutely amazing, and the food was good.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Scenario number two, we're at a Michelin star restaurant, food is out of this world, but I see where you're going.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's an hour delay till we got to our table.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't find parking.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: By the time I got to the restaurant, I was sweaty.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the food was out of this world, the spectacle was there, but I've lost that emotional connection with that instance because the journey wasn't well thought out.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what I feel nowadays is happening with events, people 90% focus on the spectacle and 10% on the journey.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I like to do things personally different.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like to ensure that the journey is completely memorable, not just up to the show, but also when you're leaving the show.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to some concerts which have been absolutely amazing, but I'll never go to those venues ever again because it's taking me two or three hours to get back home.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that destroyed my experience.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: In short, I think we should start focusing on the journey and not also losing the spectacle, but finding that real sweet point.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because once you do that, then you've got yourself an immaculate event.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you if you could hit that sweet spot, it really resonates with everyone.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I I know that you work with a lot of governments, you work with a lot of producers and agencies and a lot of creative, uh creative groups.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: When does that sort of healthy ambition cross over into complexity or maybe too much complexity, or sometimes I guess less is more?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Less is definitely more most of the times, but I think it's absolutely important to listen to everybody's voice because there can always be an idea that's hidden underneath anything.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: But this is where some challenges happen.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: When everybody gets involved and the needle stops moving, this is where we start to face some challenges.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And this is exactly where you need to ensure you have the right leadership, not only at the highest level, but also when you have a project director that knows how to one, manage expectations and two, be able to say no and really let the client know that when you are saying no, it is in their best interest.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, sometimes it is better to take more scope because it means more money for the producer.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: But is that what you really want at the end of the day?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want the headache?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: You want to ensure that everybody gets to the North Star so we continue to move forward together.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Listening is good, but it's also okay to say no, but always have the fundament the fundamentals of trust with the client first, and that way you can really speak your mind.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Everything has gotten um very um grandiose, bigger screens, drone shows, and all of this.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's becoming very um, if done correctly, incredible experience, very experiential.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes it maybe it's over the top, but if it's if it's used correctly, obviously it's uh it's it has that wow factor.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that audiences are becoming harder to impress or they're just getting smarter about what they want?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think audiences are harder to impress.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's just much harder to fool people nowadays.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um Listen, Michael, if your goal is to have the biggest stage in the UAE or the world, then sure, you go with that spectacle.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have an event where you want people to keep on coming and to start following you, you need to build a longevity plan.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not always going to be about the spectacle.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know we touched base about this uh a little bit earlier, where it's all about the journey.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I really have to reiterate reiterate that it really is about the journey.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to have the spectacle, but there needs to be an understanding of what the people really want.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: You have to find that emotional connection and relevance with your fans.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And a great example to give you is um when I worked at FanExpo HQ, one of Informa Connect's events, we used to just reach out to everybody all at once and then simmer it down to what people wanted to see.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then from there, we actually targeted the marketing to ensure that we got we sorry, not what we got, what we we gave people what they wanted.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it depends on your objective.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not one size fits all.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: If spectacle is your focus, by all means, but that's not always going to keep everybody engaged.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the times, and speaking for myself, when I go to an event to an event, the programming is the most important for me because that's where I get to learn more.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Secondly, I love to network.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's a good networking opportunity as well, then to me, that's a successful event.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: With fan um fan expo HQ, um, I'm just that it it sounds like one of those fun events.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like they really, you know, it's not, it's not I I happen to love policy-led events.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just my thing.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a bit of a geek.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but these events have a different, they're a different animal and they have a whole different dynamic.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And but when you're working on these events, and it's something I've I've often thought about is is how do you produce an event and get it right when you're dealing with the fans and the audience and the attendees that know the subject so much better than you.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do you jump on the back of that moving truck?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's a great question.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um in this instance with Fan Expo, I think they did a phenomenal job with their hiring because everyone that worked there was an actual fan, including the CEO himself.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he understood the emotional connection.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: But we're not always going to be lucky like Fan Expo, where the fan and the attendee are on the same brain uh wavelength.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, what we've done in the past, and this is something I personally do, and I've learned this from my mentor, also from FanExpo HQ, because I wasn't always a fan.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I am a fan now, but I was never a fan, is you really have to immerse yourself in the actual event context.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: You really need to understand what the people want, and you really need to ensure that you deliver on relevance.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Again, uh, I love these questions because they're all intertwined together.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can just throw on a big spectacle, which might be the wow factor, but is that really going to enter uh entertain somebody that's been seeing that through all the comic-cons?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: But if you give them the relevance of why they are there, then they will really enjoy your show.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the win.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I want to um I want to get into a koogie.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I sometimes we do this at the beginning where we we we want to get a real strong boilerplate on what you've been doing with your with your new company.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But and sometimes it's at the end.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna save it for a little bit because I've got some stuff since we're we're talking business and and some of the cool stuff that you've done and the journey that you had.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can I get a little bit of background and what your relationship with Untold was?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Untold is actually one of the top five festivals in the world.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, if I'm not mistaken, recently I've seen that it's the top three, and they've been in the business for a very, very long time.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think they just did their 10th anniversary edition in Romania just this last year, which unfortunately I missed.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But it's just insane.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And even working with the Untold team, they know what they are doing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: They they're veterans in their field.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it was such a privilege to work with them that we learnt from each other.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And just to take a step back, because I think this question is great on identifying the right partners you work with.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Dubai Tourism did a fantastic job establishing the right partners.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because with the right enablers in the event industry, you're you're gonna get the best of the best.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: We we know for a fact there's nowhere else like Expo City Dubai, just its foundations, the way uh it's already been pre-built for people to move very quickly from one place to another.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was great to have something like Untold come to us and then have them trust us with the entire operations of it all.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I I unfortunately I'm not with Expo anymore and I'm not in that world, but I miss it dearly.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go into, you know, we were talking about Untold Dubai, and I want to talk about the cultural translation, all that kind of stuff, but I really am in a rush to get to something.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a rush, but I'm very eager, let's say, because we had a conversation before we start recording, yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I thought it was I thought it was pretty cool.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought a coogie, yeah, your company was an acronym.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was, you know, artificial knowledge or something like that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all the time, yeah.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then you told me something that I don't know if it's something that you want to divulge on camera, but I think it's really cool because when I told you a coogie, it sounds like something my three-year-old be would be watching on like a Japanese cartoon or something, or um because it's such a fun name.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: In a serious business.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So please come on.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So a Kogi comes from the first business that I've ever started, and it was I'd say maybe eight or nine years old.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh a business where I'd let people pet my rabbit and physical rabbits, and uh my main rabbit was a coogie, and I really don't remember how that name came to, but as you mentioned earlier, kids come up with uh darn.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: They say the darnest thing.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: They say the darnest things, and it just stuck.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And all through university, even though my major was in finance, I started an events company there, and I used to work as a promoter for all of the clubs over there.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of how I fell into events, but and that's also how my company name kind of lived through the years.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it means something, it's an origin story.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: How many, how many groups have something that can, you know, they can point to the you know the you know, sort of a you know, memory or something sentimental or something that yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's really, really cool.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you and you'll know it forever, right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like everyone remembers their first four digits of their or their last their home phone when they were a kid.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, because you you had to remember it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now nobody remembers numbers.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, that was really it's a really, really cool.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that story.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me uh tell us about a coogie.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: What is a coogie and what is it you guys are doing?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds really, really interesting.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say, you know, when we have these conversations and we we we talk about, somehow we end up veering into AI in one way or another.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's probably difficult.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably going to be a bit fatiguing for people when you're talking when you're talking about AI in a way that you don't really have that sort of background in AI and how AI is uh so important to events.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: But your focus with AI and your use of AI in the events landscape is really, really something different.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to preface that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um thank you for that introduction.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's very spot on.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've started a Koogie because I've realized people in the events world have been asking the wrong questions and have building the wrong apps.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I really came to realize that there was a huge gap in the foundation of how everybody works with AI.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And this all started with me because I was doing things wrong.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: When AI first came to light or shed, it came to light on all of us, I started building as many apps as I could.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and I hear this all the time, people building apps as well, but they're not really helpful per se.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're cool, they're functional, but does it really help you on a day-to-day?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Does it really expediate your process?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any commercial value in it?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the times people say no, because of one, how long it takes them to build it, how to prompt correctly, and how to ensure that the output is exactly what they need.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why when I built a Koogie, I really wanted to build the company first on the foundation of education.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there's an educational platform, there is an enablement platform called Enable, which is the consultancy arm.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have execute for people that don't just want the proposal, they want us to come in and execute for them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And as I start a business, and this is the first real business besides petting rabbits, uh, that um sometimes you need to be agile and change the direction of your business.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I've realized a lot of the help that people need.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say a lot of the help that people need, I'd say like 90 to 95% of the clients that I'm meeting with need help of building a foundation.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because when I go in and audit their apps, they're fantastic apps, they're beautiful.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: The UX, the UI, stunning, but it's no faster than them sending an email or delegating work.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the purpose isn't really cert.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So what I always propose now, pardon me, what I always propose to every company I work with is to build a corporate brain, some sort of knowledge base within the company.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: We are not all gifted to have these massive organizations where you can use your staff all the time.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a huge body of freelancers that end up coming in last minute.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very difficult for them to embed the DNA of your company to ensure that they deliver up to your standard.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this is just one example.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do we do at a cookie mainly right now?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: We go into corporations, to SMEs, whatever the size of your event business is, and we gather all of the corporate memory of everything that you've done well, everything that you've done bad, all of your wins, all of your losses, and we create a knowledge base.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: From that knowledge base, then you start prompting because that way it's within a controlled field.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Within that controlled field, you're going to start to get the answers you really are looking for.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a really good tool for you to start innovating your business because you're learning from everything that's happened in the past.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about you, Michael, but do you lose information in when you're writing reports after major events?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh do you retain everything that happens during your events?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: In my mind, no.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And do I often have time to jot it down in the middle of it?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of it comes from creating measurement tools prior to the event to make sure that we can capture what we need and having those tools in place before, so we can, you know, we can prepare for those post-event reports and briefs and stuff like this.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of it gets, you know, goes falls through the sieve.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh exactly.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the tools that we put in place before we do before uh the event starts and during the event.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that way the outcome of it all is always recorded.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you have experience of delivering 300 events, imagine the knowledge base you can put together safely within your organization that can support everybody with their planning.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: One of the most important apps that I've built recently, and again, not always corporate brains.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I said there's another 5% there.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like some people ask for some apps, but I had a client come up to me that told me that they can't keep up with their RFPs.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're a very small event business, but they're very popular in the UAE because they're new and they're very fair priced.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: They've rejected almost 50 or 60% of a lot of RFPs that came their way because they simply don't have the time to actually execute them.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I built, I built them this spring and an application that goes on top of it that really helps them break down the RFP and sends it to the right people.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that knowledge base, even though you might not think you are that right person to answer it, based on your experience at the company and what you have done, it'll automatically send that question to you to fill.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And once all of the teams put all of their knowledge together, it automatically builds that RFP for them.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: And all you have to do at the end of the day is just do one executive review, give it to your designer, and you move to the next.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: They have told me they can happily comment as I signed an NDA to not disclose who they are, but they can happily comment on this pose who they are.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: But they've been telling me that they're up to 300% in a matter of each month or two.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: By how many simple change.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm honestly, uh I've I have spent I've spent up to a month working maybe 14 hours a day on on bids and and and sometimes RFPs from on the other side as well, just putting together as much information as possible and spending so much time.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's fatiguing.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really, really tough to the point where at the end you just, I just don't want this anymore.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't want to do this anymore.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um it does create a whole uh it creates an opportunity for or at least it it creates that commercial value that's unique to events that that um would be done at a much, much slower, slower rate.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So but I do think that bunny petting, you probably should have gone to pony rides before you went to AI processes, but you know, that's just working up.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm a little slower than most.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um so what's next for you?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on with the company?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is there you have anything that you can talk about?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot in the pipeline right now.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's some there there were a lot of delays because of the situations that happened, but that actually was a blessing in disguise because I was getting overwhelmed and I didn't realize starting a professional business, you had to wear like 17 different hats from the accounting to the sales to the one designer.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so it took a lot of my time, but it was time I needed to invest to ensure that the business and the structure of it was clear.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right now I am focusing with speaking to many organizations, and many of them now being government organizations on organizing their data and data management.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, there is long-term plans of how we can build adequate applications that actually are functional, that they can use on a day-to-day basis and ensure that they do fall within local servers over here.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because that seems to be a bit of a problem when you work with AI.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're in some cloud somewhere in South Texas.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why we're starting to focus on the security of AI, building the foundations and actually building them a long-term strategy.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm not here to make a quick buck.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to build my reputation quite well.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to do things right and slow and steady.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of the direction I'm going in right now.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm hoping by end of Q1, maybe I can start hiring to get the help that I actually need.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you I have no doubt that this is gonna grow.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're on the on the the cusp of the future.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's I think you're yeah, I think it's really gonna be something that everyone is gonna be needing.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you, like you said, it's not just events, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're just working with governments and governments here always, uh, especially in in the region, especially in the UAE, they're very, very progressive in their in their um, you know, early adoption of of these tools, especially within AI.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really cool.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, all I can say is if you haven't finalized it yet, a bunny logo.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: But AJ, it was really, really cool to sit and chat with you.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the Saturday morning coffee.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Although you don't drink coffee.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I'll drink coffee.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, I had one for you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, sir.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thanks for being with us and uh really wish you the best, although I have a feeling you're gonna kill it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Michael.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, AJ.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much.
• 23:38
  unknown: Bye.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here at the backdrop, we work hard to bring you the people, the stories, and the perspectives behind one of the world's most dynamic industries, events.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you enjoy the conversations, like, comment, subscribe, and join in the conversation.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It all helps us keep the backdrop growing.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for watching.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: The backdrop was recorded live at OneCentral in Dubai United Arab Emirates.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was hosted by Michael McClennan and produced and edited by Dan Powell.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.