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F&TV Interview with Filmmaker Jeff Macolino : Indie Film Marketing & Economics · FILM&TVREVIEW.COM

0:09
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1:01
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1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello there and welcome to Film and TV review, Special and TV with my guest.
1:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So we talked to filmmaker Jeff McLeanow.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: He's produced and starred in Future Diamonds, the last ride.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You've directed a comedy feature, thanksgiving again, and he's earned recognition, amortable.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Film festivals including acting, screenplay awards.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in both films and moving on to quite a lot of expressing outside of the co-studio systems.
1:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So in addition to filmmaking, you also host the Jeff McLean O'Podcasts, where you regularly interview guests from entertainment business and sports.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Jeff, welcome.
2:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it the podcast I started?
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was, so I always had ideas for movies in my head and I had a hard time getting them on the page.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So one thing I did because I really like comedy is I reached out to some stand-up comedians for advice and the number one thing they said is do stand up and start a podcast.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll find your voice, you'll find your way.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did in 2021, I started the Jeff McLean O'Podcast.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I started doing open mics.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And after doing that a while, I realized, you know, I had younger kids.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, and I'm divorced, so I haven't half the time.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like I can't be a traveling stand-up comedian unless I want to be a deadbeat father.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said, well, let me look and see, I wanted to do this, so I could write movies.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me look if I can find acting locally around Tampa Bay, and after hours of hunting, I found a lead role that I sent an email, auditions, got the part, you know, movie called women want everything.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I, you know, I enjoyed acting a lot.
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so I kind of kept on that route with the thought in mind of Okay, when I find because a lot of local stuff in Florida You know has a cheap field of it like the audio is not good or the lighting's not good.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is So I told myself when I find a crew that I know I can trust out I'll move forward
3:49
[SPEAKER_01]: and give them my movie ideas and will make it work.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got the second lead in a movie called Haunted Happy Hour that was filming five minutes from my house.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And the crew on that, the cinematographer of the audio guy, there were PAs that helped with other stuff, but it was like a two-man crew.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm used to on the other movie.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like 30 people.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Here it was two people setting up all the lights, all the camera, all the audio,
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was the director too, but they did all this stuff, and the PA is just moved stuff.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like, you know, so I'm in my head, and I look, these two guys, Chris Christopher piece of myth and Rick McConnell, they were great to be around too.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said, when I go to the haunted happy hour premiere, if the audio and video look good,
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at the after party I'm pitching these guys that we I want us to make a movie and that all played out exactly like that and
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave them a week later, we had like a five-hour phone call where I gave them six ideas and we talked about the cost of all of it and what the goal was going to be.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And we decided to do the last ride, which Christopher P. Smith, I mentioned, he directed that film and he wrote the script, it was a story idea that
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It actually happened to me in real life, but just the beginning part of it where I was driving for Uber and I picked up a man from a hospital who told me he just finished cancer treatment and he's going to die.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I drove him 45 minutes from home and it was just like,
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It struck me.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So my idea for the movie was, what if this guy said, hey, I have two days left to live, can I just pay you and you drive me around, so I don't have to get a bunch of different drivers.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the the genesis of the idea.
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I couldn't, I tried to write the script and I couldn't get it to work because it was too goofy.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I was being too goofy.
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a serious
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's a serious thing.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So Chris took that over, wrote a script.
6:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the lead actor in it, myself, a John Mayzeag, and we're both fortunate to have won, I've won Best Lead Actor, and he's won Best Supporting Actor just this past week at Film Festival.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's been
6:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So going well, the fun thing with that movie was St. Petersburg, which has not been hit by hurricane in over a century, in 2024, got hit by two in a month.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was the month before we started filming.
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So we planned on starting November 1st, and I think the hurricane hit October 14th or something, the second one.
6:37
[SPEAKER_01]: When we started filming, my house was all torn up the walls because it watered
6:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no damage to the Airbnb where we were filming the majority of the movie, thankfully.
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to do some last-minute location swaps because we didn't hide the fact that there was debris in the road throughout the movie.
6:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't see it if you're looking for it, but we didn't want it to be the focus of the movie.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it was a interesting, challenging time, but fortunately, the flip side to it was no actors had any conflicts because there was nobody else filling at that time around here.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the film commission, I talked with them and they're like, you are actually the only thing filming in Penela's County like this month.
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But we got it done, and we're proud of it.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a tough road to go that independent film route.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to follow up on that, to lead into Thanksgiving again, Chris, who directed and wrote and all this, he was editing the movie.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And this movie relies heavily on green screen because we're in a car a lot.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And we weren't going to film it practically.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So it takes a while if you want to do green, you know, to get it right.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So while he was doing that, we knew it was going to be months before we could see the movie.
8:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to Rick around Christmas and I said, I have a little more money.
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do another movie and we talked about the other projects and we decided thanksgiving again was the most affordable one.
8:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And also commercially, the most likely, to get some money back since it's a holiday movie.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So we talked it over and I wrote the script in January.
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We cast in April, I want to say, and we shot it in June.
8:42
[SPEAKER_01]: The entire month of June, we shot Thanksgiving again.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: assembled a bigger crew, not a bigger cast, but a cast that had to be around more often.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So scheduling was tougher.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And that movie is about a woman who gets caught in a time loop and has to relive Thanksgiving over and over again with her annoying Italian in laws running around the house, including me.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not the lead in that, which is why I directed the movie, is I basically played myself and the, so I wasn't worried about my acting.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, so I was kind of able to, to direct that one.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't know how much I want to ever direct and act in a movie at the same time in the future though.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of like, yeah, I mean, it was wondering how you identify as an actor and watch a direction and then how they, your roles evolve and then make to pull back and all that.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, with thanksgiving, it's kind of, yeah, we're watching a character.
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: groundhog day around the Thanksgiving time.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you purposely kind of go in?
9:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you've got a bit more freedom as independent to kind of like something that appeals to you of your voice or do you initially say, no, I want to make something commercial because quite honestly, I got to get something that's going to make it some money back or has a chance to do.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you consciously make a decision?
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: it's so the first one the last ride I think the main purpose was it was by far the most the cheapest option at least money because I'm paying for this whole thing out of my pocket.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and the anticipation wasn't about making money with that movie.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, honestly, it was more of, I want to be cast as an actor in more things.
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So throw me in the lead, throw me in the pool.
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: See if I, you know, this should be a testament, whether I can actor not.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, that was honestly probably the number one priority of that was not to make money.
10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: experience.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you know, it's something to be the lead of a movie where you're in every scene in the movie.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a toll on you.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially when you're also
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Responsible for, you know, the stuff behind the scenes going on too.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just show up and act.
11:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's show up and what are we going to get for lunch today?
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, it's all those little things, because we had, it was a three-man crew.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we did have a behind the scenes get up.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy also, but it was just Chris Rick and me as far as crew.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no one else to move lights to do anything to go get lunch, you know, we had no PAs or anything.
11:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It was mean like super lean on the on the production front.
11:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanksgiving again was one that we thought was the next best to be able to do on a limited budget because it's pretty contained for the most part.
12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And that one there was a little bit of we should be able to make some money with there's not a ton of Thanksgiving movies and there's enough people who look for them that we should get some eyeballs and I also thought like I go out of my way if I know of a time loop movie I go out of my way to watch it so I'm like kind of checks multiple boxes and
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, if I wasn't directing the movie, my actors all post on social media, it's the best set they've ever been on in their lives.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we all got along so well.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, you know, it was to credit me, it was assembling the perfect team of people.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And we all meshed really well.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, we had to tell people to quiet down between takes when I'm trying to talk to the director of photography because everyone's laughing so much.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a good set to be on and, you know, it's funny that one thing sitting with Jeremiah LaCulio who was the DP and edited the movie, there were some scenes where it's like,
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: we had one more like if we had a script supervisor we would have this would have been better because we didn't note I was in this scene I didn't notice this in the background so we can't use that take you know I watched playback but you know you watched playback on a little monitor after the take you're not going to see a necessarily a light pole in the corner of the shot so it was
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You are restricted by having a very low budget.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had a couple of production interns we got from local colleges to, and they saved us.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We wouldn't have been able to do the movie without them.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So it really, it's a going into independent film and doing it yourself on a low budget is an undertaking.
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Chris, I want you to develop your own in-house style of production and a model that works, but can you actually replicate that from project to project?
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you've got, it's only got massive people and they've got their own little jobs or they're chasing their own job.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you able to bring them in from project to project?
14:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Or is it like every project who's available,
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little of, there's a little of both, sometimes people are going to be available and sometimes are not.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I did, I mean, if you look at the cast list for Haunted Happy Hour, which I had nothing, again, I was just an actor on that, but Haunted Happy Hour, the last ride, and thanksgiving again, you're going to see a lot of names, multiple places.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot.
14:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So as far as actors and crew, I do
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You develop a kind of second hand with them.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So it definitely helps to have a stable of people that you can kind of plan on, hey, we're gonna do this.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: When are you available?
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make sure we're all available at the same time and let's do it.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, my future projects, I'm hoping that someone sees these two movies and says,
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm going to invest, if this guy had a little more money, you know, and he's got good I've got scripts, you know, I actually wrote four scripts last year that are ready to go.
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm working on budgets for each of those to try to attract investors because I would prefer to pay out of my pocket for the next one.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, we've actually had a Zoom table read for one of my scripts.
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote called Spaghetti Face with a bunch of potential crew people, and it was just like, okay, let's, I just want to work out and make sure these scripts are good if, if we get an investor who's like, hey, go make me a movie, put my name on it.
16:16
[SPEAKER_02]: what kind of like the biggest kind of like structural advantages or disadvantages when you're kind of making these films in say this because you do locally I'm guessing and it front instead of like Los Angeles or you know I mean how I mean whatever you found advantageous and what is like oh no I wish I could do that if maybe you know if you were based in LA or
16:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah you have to figure out the rules somewhat with what works and what doesn't work Florida is a right to work state so it's a not we can do non union films so we don't have to worry about tracking people's hours for over time or anything like that.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, a lot of, a lot of Hollywood productions can be hamstrung by, you need to hire X amount of crew where, I mean, again, the, the last ride there were three people and one of them was me.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was really two.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not very useful on crew except for moving stuff from, from point A to point B. Um,
17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, uh, everything's a little, I would say less glamorous than what people imagine.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, I think that model is starting to go into bigger budget films too.
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember hearing an actor say every movie is a billion dollar movie or bring your own Doritos to set.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I had great crafty for my actors.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a lot of compliments on the stacks and the lunch and dinners that we got.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Even things like that, you know, I think in general the executive producer probably doesn't have to worry too much about the lunch and dinner schedule.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, we spent hours with Rick and Sierra Evans are associate producer planning out because it was a lot of mouth to feed.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to plan out each meal, make sure the cost worked and every time she's like, well, should we do this or this?
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, just spend more money.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So it, you know, I spoiled them because I mean, other Florida sets, you know, I've heard of, you know, a group of 40 people in the guy bought two pizzas and said, there's, there's dinner, it's like,
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do want to split the difference, so to speak, where we have the advantage of not having to do things, I still want to make them good.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've been on a big set as a background actor, and I would take the lunches on the set of Thanksgiving again over the lunches I had there.
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm proud of that.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Or besides keeping the crew happy with the food, what do you recommend that they get a handle on a workout that really does burn a hole in your pocket?
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's, if you have a hardline budget, I would say, keep 10 to 20% for unexpected cost.
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because what you plan for going, a lot of the pre filmmaking meetings are about all of the contingencies.
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If this person doesn't show up, you know, this actor, we don't know what if they just don't show up, what do we do?
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh,
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You talk about weather stuff.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What happens if...
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't work here.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's an alternative location we can film it?
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You really handle all of those contingency plans ahead of time, but it's always something else.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the microphones broken, we need to buy a new microphone.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we need to go send someone to pass by to get a new cord because it's not working.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's all of the little things that you don't
20:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Think are going to go bad, those are the things that go bad.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we rented our cameras for both movies.
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, get a week before you start filming and play around with them to make sure you know how to use the camera.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And it works.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So those kind of things, it's really just, if you do have a, I cannot spend a penny more than X amount of dollars.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: make sure 10 to 20% of that is just left over and then if you don't spend it good for you use it on marketing and film festivals.
20:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If you kind of developed and you kind of like unconventional like funding strategies, have you explored them or partnerships with funding partners or anything like that?
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I've, through my personal network, I'm in talks with one person who invests pretty good amounts of money in film.
21:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my main lead right now is staying friends with her and hoping to convince her to fund one of my projects, which I, is a possibility, I don't
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to look into, so I don't, I'm not a, a lot of filmmakers around here do go fun means or Indiegogo's, I don't, something about that bothers me.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I, I love that they can do it, but I would prefer set up a system that
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: you can actually invest in sea returns if the movie makes money.
21:43
[SPEAKER_01]: More of an investor than a donation.
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I like...
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I just like the idea of people having skin in the game.
21:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just, yeah, here's a hundred bucks and send me a sign movie poster as a perk.
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, here's $5,000 and when this movie starts making money, I get a percentage of it.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That is more attractive to me.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Connecting with those people obviously is the challenge, but that's more the route I'm comfortable with because I do like I like the idea of if Thanksgiving again makes a million dollars The actor sees something, the crew sees something I don't want to just, I'm not a very selfish person with money
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I try to figure, you know, I mean, honestly, every actor in Thanksgiving again had up front pay and deferred pay.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I make my money back, they're all getting a bonus with that deferred pay.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: every actor except for myself and my kids, by the way, we did not get paid.
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That's quite good for me.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're quite transparent with you.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like you're quite transparent with your costs and crew about the business side.
23:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing in the budgets and revenue spits and back-end points.
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing which is... We do work a more model or less opposed.
23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean...
23:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess another way of getting investors is networking with your festivals, I suppose, and the strategy there.
23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you make a film now, do you kind of have in your mind of design your festival strategy?
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I guess you get it to that stage and then it's a good option for you to start a networking there, I'm guessing.
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you wait for the finished film, how it feels like, and then see if it really
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's, you know, my strategy for festivals was probably unique, this go round.
24:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of that is that I have two movies that were basically finished at the same time.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of what, the last ride we thought was a film festival movie.
24:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanksgiving again, the thought was, it's not.
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So we,
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to do a full review because we've still got like 40 film festivals that we've submitted to, you know, through the end of the year.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: After that, I'm going to do a full review of how much I spent, which I was a little fast and loose because it's my money.
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not an investor's money.
24:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was, I spent too much money, I would say, on certain film festivals that I didn't need to.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, giving again, though, we, the thought was to enter it into Tampa Bay underground this past year, which we did.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where these two awards are from.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a, you will holiday film festival.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And we entered it into that one best holiday feature.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So those were seemingly obvious choice.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: One's just like having a local premiere, basically.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other is a festival for a film like ours.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't anticipate any award success outside of the holiday one.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of fueled me to throw us in a bunch of other.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And Thanksgiving ain't actually currently has more awards than the last ride.
25:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll probably end up about even, and they're for different things.
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of the awards for Thanksgiving, again, my son actually won Best Child Actor.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And the award we've won the most is best ensemble cast.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the last ride, the award we've won the most is me for Best Actor.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if we enter them in the same category, they're not really competing for the same stuff in essence.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think I'm a little surprised at the success Thanksgiving Yen had at the festival circuit because comedies generally have a more difficult time winning awards and stuff like that.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is enough
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: emotional whiplash in the movie.
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say we're with heartfelt scenes that kind of kind of ground it back into the thing that the festival voters want to want to see the sadness.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Damn, is it?
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, are these first of all experiences then like ever directly in your experience led to concrete business outcomes or you are financing partnerships or distribution tells what's been your experience?
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the only one, but it's a significant one, Wolf Media Festival.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We won Thanksgiving again, one best feature comedy, and everyone who won in a ward at that festival got an automatic distribution deal with story TV, which I think is genius on the festival level for getting with a streamer too.
27:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And also for story TV, they're targeting award-winning films for their platform, which is streaming independent movies.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: genius idea.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I emailed them and said, hey, would you maybe be interested?
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: This was nominated for Best Drama.
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you be interested in the last ride?
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: They watched it.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It said, yes, we won't both.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So both movies are there.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, that's a concrete thing from a film festival.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the ones we entered were online festivals, so you're basically just getting awards, that's it.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But even some of those have networking events, and stuff you can take advantage of.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's some networking going on.
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing is, even the smaller online festivals, it just adds credibility when people see award-winning
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: films.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's also when you go to distribution, one of the things all the streamers want to know is, did you win any awards at festivals?
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the first things they ask you on the list.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's the other thing.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's targeting places you think you can win.
28:46
[SPEAKER_01]: some festivals you have to pick a category to submit to, which I don't like.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I like much better when you just send it to them and if they want to give you an award, they tell you what the awards for.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But keeping that in mind, you know, there are some festivals where I'm like, oh, I should have submitted myself for best actor.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't like doing that.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I'm a narcissist, but I like to pretend I'm not, but it's like, yeah, we would have had a much better chance of winning best actor than best feature in a festival.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just statistically, if most filmmakers are going to go for best feature, not best actor.
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a rare filmmaker who,
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: is in the acting side.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are some strategic flaws in what I did.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do look forward to when all of a sudden done calculating exactly what I spent mistakes I made.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to give that information to people who are trying to do independent film because I I'm very much a shareer like I don't a lot of times people get filmmakers.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I found not all of them, but some of them get very secretive about distribution especially and it's like I don't understand like
30:13
[SPEAKER_01]: we can both succeed.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not competition.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what it is, but I'm the opposite of that.
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to share every secret I have, every mistake I make, so that you have a better chance of making your movie.
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can cast me in it as a, as a, as a thank you.
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think like the role, it's not like the role of festivals.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You think it is actually growing or maybe shrinking because like, you know, like, we've had some festivals like sundowns
30:43
[SPEAKER_02]: close down from its original venue, it's been there for, you know, for decades.
30:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So giving this is changing or, you know, where there's so much discovery now, have us on streaming platforms.
30:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's been your kind of like I view of things?
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the physical in-person festivals where deals get done are going to be more and more uncommon.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I think more people are going to do shift to just the online festivals that you win awards, you get to brag about it, people see it or win awards, they pay attention.
31:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think I hope that more festivals take the approach that the Wolf Media Fest did and link up with a, because the story of TV is a pretty new streaming service.
31:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They're, I think, I don't like it, but their main focus is for people who watch on their phones, tablets, and computers, which the majority of people under 30 are doing now.
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not streaming it to their TV.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They're watching it on their phone, which is crazy to me, but that's what, you know, my daughter, 16.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: She watches stuff on her phone.
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't, she has a TV in her room that doesn't ever turn on.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's fascinating to me.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: but as a filmmaker also you have to realize people are going to be watching on a 55 plus inch TV or a phone screen.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's not much in between anymore.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: For people who find the kind network in intimidating, I mean, what have been whatever the few practical approaches like starting conversations that you've had at these festivals, I'm guessing you must have worked the room, whatever you used your charm, but what did
32:35
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of tips for those who know me that's a confident or their first time going.
32:38
[SPEAKER_02]: What would you recommend they do or practice that doing?
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I could use some practice, I think, at it, it's helpful when the festival, if there's a bar around, that's definitely helpful to me, because, you know, that loosens
33:01
[SPEAKER_01]: make sure your I would just say don't shoot yourself in the foot and don't miss opportunity like simple things like at Central Florida Film Festival they ask if they I do an interview for social media do those things don't say no because you're nervous do them
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to, you know, because half the time you don't know anybody, if they're just someone who wants to go to a film festival or they're a big time investor, you don't, you know, you're not going to know just by looking at them.
33:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I also would say hang around the theater after your film shows.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So if someone wants to approach you, you're there physically.
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's also good for feedback, honestly.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've had, I mean, mostly compliments, but I did have someone say, hey, if that's not the final cut, I noticed this thing in this one scene.
33:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, it's not the final cut.
34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.
34:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's never needs to be the final cut.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean,
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: when, you know, a filmmaker, like yourself, finishes their first feature or second feature.
34:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, what are the basic distribution paths that I did you follow or work for you?
34:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, those who don't know, they kind of wonder.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Because as we say, I think they don't talk about that distribution model.
34:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're just great for that.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They finish the film, reach the end, and then expect things just to come their way.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But it seems that it has to be a bit more proactive
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: job, after everything's filmed in the can, what is out there, how do you navigate that role, what works, because it's a bit of a misdeed required for a few indicators.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, don't have the magic bullet.
34:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I ended up biting the bullet and going through film hub, which I had to pay
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: 99 to get plus membership which gave me free quality control for one movie I had to pay 499 to for the quality control of the other movie and then I had to pay for captions because we couldn't get it right for the last ride.
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean I ended up having to pay almost $2,000 to get the two movies distributed.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: The distribution process is, is, is gnarly, uh, it's, we, we spoke to several different distributors who had proposals and every single one of them made the filmmaker pay them money, which, which I ended up doing with film hub anyways, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's kind
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: In an ideal world, distributors are completely unnecessary, but they step in, charge you in upfront fee, and then take 20 to 30% of the money that your movie makes.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: When if I could just reach out to Toby and directly, they could just pay me all of what they pay and cut the middle man out.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of an ugly thing that a lot of filmmakers are really, really,
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: steamed about.
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a group on Facebook that's basically just filmmakers who curse about distributors and I get it.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but some of them just basically don't have their film out there because they refuse to get ripped off.
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, it's, I would encourage them to go to, to store a TV because they have, frankly, being most positive filmmaker, they do cut out the, the middleman because they are a streamer that the filmmaker works directly with.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're definitely getting the most bang for your buck there.
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're not a big platform, at least not yet, but at least people can see your movie.
37:24
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what was exciting about that and Thanksgiving again is now on Fawesome, which is
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: more popular just based on the views I've seen in the first two days of the movie more people are on there than you think because I don't think I've driven as many people have seen the movie there as I've seen the movie uh... and it's you know I've heard of it and I've now in watching movies on it because it's completely free you don't even need to make an account which is the only one I know of where you don't even need an account uh... except for probably youtube um...
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: there.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's unfortunately there's not great options unless
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're going to get screwed over somehow, is the bottom line.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a monetized YouTube channel, you could do that, but you're, you know, you're getting a couple pennies per view and something about, I do have a monetized YouTube channel and something about it, I'm like, yeah, it just seems like a home movie if I put it on my own YouTube channel.
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it takes away the legitimacy of it, and maybe that's a dumb way to look at it.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an unfortunate thing for independent filmmakers, trying to navigate the distribution process.
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I probably had a slated vantage having two films, which is not very common for, and usually it's one project at a time.
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So all the stress of distribution and marketing, I doubled it.
39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just made it that much harder on myself.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully it ends up with a positive outcome, even with having to, you know, have film hub with their hand in my pocket.
39:18
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't, I mean, is there even room than for negotiating with distributors?
39:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause there's a bit limited, or when it comes to streaming deals or you've tried to negotiate.
39:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there any,
39:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you known about negation yourself, or is it even room for it, or are you kind of like how close to you?
39:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The one deal I got really close to, but he refused to give me a list of films that he is distributed.
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I backed down.
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I negotiated that one down to where I paid him very little to take the movies.
39:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like 400 bucks or something to take both.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It was going to be 500 for each.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So I negotiated that down.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: but the fact that he wouldn't give me a list of movies he's distributed makes me think I'm gonna pay him money and then my movies are gonna just sit in his garage for the rest of their lives because that's part of it too is you do need to look at non-exclusive and exclusive deals so unfortunately the filmmaker either needs to be somewhat savvy with
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: legalese or have someone above them, or aside them, who is?
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the one advantage I guess is there is AI, you can always run the contracts through and they'll, and I've done that with every one I've received to be like, is this good or bad?
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And
40:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'll tell you what it's said just to shout out story TV, it's said there's was the best contract imaginable for a filmmaker compared to every other, you know, because it's not really a distribution deal.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a non-exclusive access to that streamer.
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So being, you know, but being on fall some, you know, they're not trying to shut you out from getting other avenues of revenue.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good concept and I hope more like that catch on.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like, and I did, I should mention the best route monetarily for a filmmaker is to do Vimeo on demand where people can buy or rent the movie and you get 90% of the money, but it only works if people are willing to buy or rent your movie.
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can tell you, I tried to market it even just directly to friends and family.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had hundreds of people text messages.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to watch it tonight.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can tell you by sales more than half of those people are liars, so no stones thrown, but I'm like, man, you wouldn't spend $8 to buy my movie.
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought we were friends.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So that only works if you actually have people and you can't rely on your friends and family either, you know, I more did that just to get an idea of how many people would do it.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, you can market, we were marketing on Instagram and Facebook and didn't spend a ton of money and
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we got link clicks.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We got thousands of link clicks to go.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody wanted to click the button to buy or rent that movie.
42:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We're very, very few did.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wish that was more something that people, the public were willing to do, but unfortunately, it's just not.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
42:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Mean.
42:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you invoke a little bit in your marketing in your films and once they hit the streaming platforms but what do you think actually moves the needle you think?
43:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Or what's where you're finding works really well?
43:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, not much.
43:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the biggest sizable thing we've had.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The two things that I think have been substantial,ish successes is the trailer for Thanksgiving again on Instagram is around 100,000 views.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And we put probably, I put probably $80 in the boosting that post to a targeted audience.
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not a lot of money to get 100,000 views.
43:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that's the trailer that doesn't make me any money unless they go watch it and this was done when it was on Vimeo on demand and no one went and watched it.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, the other thing is just frankly, landing on Fossom was the next time I saw, oh wow, people are watching this.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think it's just because it was on the recently added comedy page.
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't even search for us.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We were so new because we've only been on there for two or three days.
44:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And before I even knew we were on there, we had hundreds of views.
44:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I haven't marketed to anybody because I didn't even know we were there.
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the way film hub works is they tell you when they license your movie to a streamer, but it often takes three months before the streamer actually starts showing it.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew fall some was going to have it, but it was just by chance I, I
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: caught it on IMTB, actually, it was that said that it was on Fossum, and I'm like, oh, is this real?
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to start marketing a month before I thought I was going to have to, but they do not tell you when it starts streaming.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to stay on top of it, which is another thing, because I do think it's easier to market it when it's still in the recently added section.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my hunch.
45:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll find out.
45:11
[SPEAKER_02]: you think it's getting actually quite hard and now because we're getting kind of when era of more independent films funding this streaming place and more creators have for good or bad more tools available to get kind of something a professional looking product you know on the screen well what strategies are you thinking of
45:29
[SPEAKER_02]: using or have you used to stand out from increasingly crowded catalog and probably you know, exposure time between the next thing comes.
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, are you finding it difficult?
45:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Or what's what's your view in it?
45:44
[SPEAKER_01]: My goal is in my films to establish
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: moving forward, at least, establish a voice of sorts that will just make the people who do stumble upon it and want to come back for more, which, again, I don't know that it's regular behavior, but I'm the kind of guy who,
46:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I watch a movie and one actor for whatever reason, I love that guy.
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going on and I'm looking for all of his other movies I can watch.
46:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget the guy's name and I feel terrible.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's in a bunch of companies, a big chubby guy, and again, not famous enough that everyone knows his name.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: you've seen them in things.
46:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He was in Tucker and Dale.
46:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the big guy.
46:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But I went on and watch one of his movies every night for a week because I just likes, he was funny.
46:48
[SPEAKER_01]: There was something about him that drew me out.
46:53
[SPEAKER_01]: People do the same thing with a guy like Danny McBride.
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know that everyone's like that, but that's kind of how I am.
47:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm hoping that even if the genre can be different, that there's a certain voice, there's a certain quality in there that people are like, I wanna see more of this.
47:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell everyone who was involved in either movie.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, hey, if they're on the same streaming platform, go watch Thanksgiving again and then watch the last ride because I want the thing that comes up when you finish a movie that says more like this or people who like this like, I want my face and John's face on the last ride poster be there so they can say, hey, we just saw those guys in that movie, I'll watch this one.
47:44
[SPEAKER_02]: if you purposely try to keep that voice or a particular kind of like your voice as like because you're switching roles, you're both artists but your businessmen as well because that's basically part of the business but is it tricky really?
48:01
[SPEAKER_02]: How much control do you really have when at the end of the day or now I've got to this work start doesn't work.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you, are you
48:13
[SPEAKER_02]: is it realistic?
48:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you keep control of your, that's the biggest advantage to doing it yourself.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a good example of this is a pilot I co-wrote has been killing it at every competition we've entered it in and there is one of those script pipeline is actively pitching
48:43
[SPEAKER_01]: and we're getting notes on our script and a lot of times the answer is the middle finger because that we don't have to where we made this joke for a reason and we think it's funny we don't care if you think it's offensive we don't care if if if you don't get the joke which is more often honestly more of the notes have been I don't understand this it was a joke you don't get it but it was a
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We trust the audience will.
49:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't care what Sally in the corner office thinks.
49:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one advantage.
49:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are things in Thanksgiving again that if we were done for a studio, they would have said to take out and to cut.
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's an offensive movie.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are things that we would have gotten notes on for sure.
49:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't have to answer to them.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I can answer to myself.
49:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The script I mentioned, Spaghetti Face, is just ronci-arrated comedy.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make it myself, because I don't want to answer to anyone else.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a mob comedy but when push comes to shove the comedy always beats the action and that's what i want the voice to be in that movie there are other movies that i've written that are more serious where the comedy takes a back seat but that specific movie that's the vision so all of the ronci
50:15
[SPEAKER_02]: offence of stuff needs to stay and it's not that bad, but they don't like any small brain porn profession habits that you kind of wish you taken seriously, but earlier or you kind of learn very quickly, oh,
50:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's probably learning process, but it's kind of like, I don't know, expenses, follow-ups, tracking, yeah, do you have to take that on board, I guess?
50:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, kind of one-man bundle, or do you actually bring people in to help people with that quite early on?
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm basically doing everything as far as financials and tracking and all that stuff.
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope to get to a point where it's too much for me to handle and I can afford to bring someone else in.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's I would say some of the things I wish I had, I mean if I had a time machine I would have started learning about filmmaking in my 20s and that would have helped instead of just kind of learning on the fly.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean learning even things about cameras, about lenses, about
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Lighting and color grading and all that stuff.
51:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm a little color blind.
51:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So my blues and greens look the same.
51:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not really good at color gray.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's I just think God chose that that was not going to be my path.
51:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But learning a little more about those things I think Would have helped learning more about the reality of distribution before I made the movies would have definitely helped
51:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it also shows you how fast the landscape changes because a lot of the people I know for free got to put their stuff on film hub and it's on to be forever, um, because they used to be free.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you do a free, you, you just go on their relay channel and a couple other channels, no one's heard of.
52:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're basically never going to be seen.
52:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think, unfortunately, when you're a nobody, and you're making films with other nobody's in them, you're kind of just hoping you catch lightning in a bottle.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What that could be is one of the actors and thanksgiving again, getting a big role.
52:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, hey, look, they were in this movie.
52:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You hope word of mouth.
52:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You hope, you know, the person who watches it because they're just looking for a Thanksgiving movie says, I'm going to watch this every year on Thanksgiving and tells a couple people.
52:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that can grow and that can be a profitable thing.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, just learning more about, and even frankly, I was calculating the festival cost of festivals we did not get selected to.
53:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, some of these were just stupid decisions on my part.
53:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I entered, and you don't get a refund.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I entered the last ride into two festivals that were only for shorts.
53:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't get a refund.
53:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, they weren't that expensive.
53:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But obviously, a hundred minute film is not getting into a shorts festival.
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were other ones that I just entered in
53:40
[SPEAKER_01]: they accept less than like 5% of film and it's silly for me to think of movie starring a nobody is going to get into that festival frankly and if I had done the little bit of research I would have seen they don't they only take independent films if there is a star
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the other unfortunate, that's just part of the beast.
54:03
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have a named actor, and even if you do, I'm looking at the haunted happy hour movie poster with Eric Roberts in the middle of it.
54:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That movie, I know the director has not made him his money back or even close.
54:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and the other factor is agents do not reply to my emails when I do reach out to bigger name actors, which I did for Thanksgiving again.
54:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We sent offers to a few and some of whom are nobody's comedians who like their star meter on IMDB is lower than mine or higher than mine
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my hope is that I have two films that have won multiple awards of festivals and maybe if I email a comedian's agent who wants to act that they'll actually say, hey, let's take a look at this.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is one area where I would say I made a mistake in making two movies basically back to back that I'm trying to push out at the same time.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no one took me seriously when I was trying to get people for Thanksgiving again because
55:17
[SPEAKER_01]: what's yet exactly to produce the movie a few months ago that we can't see.
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not.
55:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sending my client down there to goof around in St. Petersburg.
55:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's challenging.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's a there's a lot of information to know luckily there are a lot of sources out there.
55:40
[SPEAKER_01]: There are filmmakers out there that are
55:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, I think the main thing, what I said when I was going into Thanksgiving and because I got pushed back a little bit on a couple of things in that script from my brother, and I said,
56:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, ten years from now, five years from now, I might be sitting in a cubicle wanting to hang myself because I have a horrible office job, but I want to be able to look at the movie poster and say, I made that movie and I made it the way I wanted to make it.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And that should be the goal.
56:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The same is what I've said to people who write books, finish the book and be proud of it.
56:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't expect to make money.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: if you make money great that's obviously the goal but you should be able to 10 years from now at a party say hey look here's a movie I made and and look I have I have plaques that you know it's just I think look for some internal validation should be the goal as opposed to thinking you're gonna become the next you know Steven Spielberg from your your independent film
56:58
[SPEAKER_01]: hopefully you do, but reality is reality.
57:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a crowded market and technology makes it where you can shoot a movie.
57:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We've always used cameras, but you could shoot a movie on your iPhone.
57:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So the barrier to entry is very low.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a good thing, but it does mean people have to sort through a lot of crap to find the gym.
57:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where you
57:23
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, I want other independent filmmakers to improve their quality so that people don't ignore all independent film and lump them in the same category.
57:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I'd like to share any secrets.
57:35
[SPEAKER_01]: My editor found in what DaVinci can do in fixing audio problems, which is magical.
57:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want to share that information because I don't want your movie with crappy audio
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... because i do think it works that way you see a bad independent film you don't want to watch another independent film you want to see some billion dollar franchise
57:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great to talk to you about the projects you've got down the stage, it's spaghetti faces that on or what else you're performing this year, actually.
58:12
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I've got four scripts.
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a couple acting gigs lined up, nothing substantial.
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got four scripts that I'm actively pitching to try to get made, and I've got that pilot I mentioned that's getting pitched.
58:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We're really hoping that gets picked up and we can film that next year, but you know, it's it's all uh, at this point in less Thanksgiving again does do miraculously well and makes me a ton of money.
58:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm counting on outside money before the next Jeff McLean film gets made.
58:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Jeff, we're Jeff, we're good luck with that, and you've been pretty candid and it's really great to actually see and really useful about what a skill it is, but thanks Jeff, and for your home, see you next time.
59:04
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