Latest / Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship / #176 - Divorce and the Impact on Your Friendships (Hope Lutz Firsel)

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#176 - Divorce and the Impact on Your Friendships (Hope Lutz Firsel) · Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

0:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Dear Nina Conversations about Friendship.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I am your host Nina Batson.
0:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been writing about Friendship for over a decade and podcasting about Friendship for over four years.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Today we are covering a heavier topic.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It is one that's important and
0:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I have not covered thoroughly on the show yet, it is about divorce and your friendships once you have been divorced.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in the middle of the divorce, you're thinking about getting divorced and on the other end of it, if you are a friend who has a friend who's going through a divorce, how can you show up?
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What would be helpful?
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously in 30 minutes, we cannot cover
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: all of the aspects of everything you're going to go through when you get to force as it pertains to friends or everything you and the other end as a friend should do can think of to help your friend.
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So this episode will touch an element that will be familiar to you if you're going through a divorce or you have a friend who has been going through a divorce.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I said, you may hear and go, oh, they didn't talk about this one aspect.
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And to that I say, I'm always happy to cover it again in a different way from a different angle.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I am so grateful to have a guest today who can speak to a lot of these issues of what somebody who is going through a divorce is experiencing in their social worlds.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And,
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: how those of us who have not gone through it can be their preference.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Hope Lutz for Cell is a women's life coach and divorce specialist who draws on her expertise in organizational change to help women navigate the emotional financial and logistical complexities of divorce and rebuild their lives afterwards.
1:42
[SPEAKER_01]: She does one on one coaching.
1:44
[SPEAKER_01]: She does group programs workshops and collaborations with family law professionals.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Hope is based in bulk over to
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Hearing what Hope has to say will likely affirm what you've been feeling if you went through a divorce or you're going through a now she just has great tips for those of us who have not gone through it and how we can show up to be the best friend possible to a friend of ours who is going through a big transition.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, hope, welcome to Deer Nina.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, what a privilege it is to be here today.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This is so fun because it's actually the second time we're meeting really the first time was at my live show in Chicago.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you being there.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was so thrilled that I happened to be in Highland Park that night.
2:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a treat for me and I've been such a fan.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So to be in the audience with some of your dearest and to meet you and hear you, was really such a privilege and such a fun night.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a fun night.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so interesting with your background.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We could have done any number of episodes.
2:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You've moved to a new town.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You've had cancer.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of topics right in there.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've done both of those topics quite a bit.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The one topic.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the only topic that I've never done.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But a topic that is screaming for me to have done.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was just waiting for the exact right guest.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: is the way divorce affects our friendships on really both ends.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have a friend that got divorced or more to the point that we're gonna deal with with you is you've been divorced and you help so many people who have been divorced.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you describe exactly what you do?
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have taken my master's which was an organizational psychology where I helped organizations going through change and leadership development and really enjoyed the one-on-one work that that offered.
3:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I went and got my life coaching degree and a certification as a divorce specialist and training and rapid resolution therapy to use all of that experience to now help women.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: who are going through trauma in our life, mostly within the divorce world before, during and after, to become the CEO of their own divorce.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big corporate change, it's an entire life change.
3:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I help women find confidence, find peace, and decide who they want to be in the face of this trauma divorce.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: to people find you through their divorce attorney.
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm word of mouth is really been the best source.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I have partnered with a lot of divorce attorneys.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So well, sometimes I think handing it off to their clients is sometimes not as easy as one would thing, handing over the referral of an outside source.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I've collaborated and partnered with divorce attorneys from around the country I did in the event in Chicago and Detroit and Boca.
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: where we together create a safe space in a workshop, a group setting, an event.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have received a lot of clients from those participants.
4:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of lawyers that I work with often turn to mediation or a collaborative divorce.
4:48
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the lawyers I'm working with are trying to find outside solutions to help the family and the marriage and create something new.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've had an up close look in your own life
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: not just the financial and all the different parts of divorce that now are going to be a new reality for all parties involved, different homes, kids and the family and dealing with all that, but then there's the social piece which I don't think that's discussed as much and obviously my show is the place to have that discussion.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: To start, however you've seen divorce and pack friendship, just as a general statement, then we'll get a lot more specific.
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: so happy to talk about this because what people need to understand and when you have a friend going through it and it's the world you may never know about.
5:35
[SPEAKER_00]: What we need to do is have compassion for those that are going through a divorce and understand that their entire foundation has been ripped to shreds.
5:45
[SPEAKER_00]: How they drink their future with luck, that is changing completely.
5:48
[SPEAKER_00]: how the past looked, you know, the stories of the marriage and the memories, those may be changing because they're having conversations about how did they get here and they may have lost touch long ago.
5:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Their whole reality is changing and within that it's not just their relationship status going from married to divorce.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes their social ecosystem completely.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: everything has changed.
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to impact all relationships.
6:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And many relationships with girlfriends, if you have a family, if you are married, oftentimes is based on you as a couple with them as a couple, or you as a family, and them as a family.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when your dynamic shifts, the entire relationship is going to have an impact.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: one thing that I definitely know comes up.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: There is the question of feeling like the friend of the people who got divorced need to pick sides.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm thinking from the point of view of your friend got divorced, not you yourself got divorced.
6:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious if you could talk about that from the point of view of somebody who has been divorced and who has worked with so many people who are getting divorced.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that true that someone needs to pick a side?
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be a misnomer
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I would say that every divorce is different.
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Every story is so unique and having worked with countless women.
7:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I can say that the friendships and the relationships have evolved in different ways.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Some divorce families still are very close and coherent a lot.
7:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And in those sense, the relationships may stay afloat in terms of if we all want to soccer every Sunday to watch the kids together and set.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: If that couple is still doing that,
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Which many towards couples are?
7:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The relationship may not be impacted, but rather if it's your ex's best friends, why regardless, she's gonna hear both sides.
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So having her pick aside is gonna be uncomfortable and probably something she can't do if the ex is still close with your ex.
7:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to really take it case by case.
7:55
[SPEAKER_00]: In general, you're really good friends.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You wanna know that they are a safe, secure,
8:03
[SPEAKER_00]: and that they have your back.
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily that they're going to pick sides and want to say that your X is
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: a devil and a horrible, but you've got to want to know that they have your back, that they are there for you first and foremost, and that's what a really good friend will do.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you coach your clients in figuring out who those people are, like maybe helping them figure out whether a friend of theirs might not be able to be that person in this case, maybe they are too close to both, and can that person still be a good friend, or I don't
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I've seen it run the game.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And my most important is that as a coach, I'm able to be the friend that may be that woman needs independent of a friendship, but a real solid relationship to communicate.
8:54
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: individual looking for from their friends.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Some friends may have to play a new role.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It may not be a safe place to confide in anymore, but how do you transition the friendship if it's a friendship worth saving as you evolve and you develop a new sense of reality and become a new individual relationships will change.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And you will be able to have the perspective of what relationships were situational in which one are genuinely authentic real friendships those that were situational to honor that and learn what you learned and know that now that you're in a different situation that relationship may not continue and to honor it and to learn from it.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to also know that our friends make it tired of the conversation.
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They may feel worn out.
9:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They may start to feel neglected of their own feelings and their own needs and what I work with my clients on is how to communicate that.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: in effective way and to set boundaries that work for both of you.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: If you set boundaries and the friendship dissipates, then you've learned that was a situation all.
10:06
[SPEAKER_00]: When you go through a divorce, it often brings up a lot of feelings in the other spheres.
10:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And it may not be around their own marriage per se, but there's a lot of spheres of an and it may be, you know, most marriages
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been flow as we now, so it definitely touches on some scabs of your own friends.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd like to really tell my clients to put it out there.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a client this weekend who has been debating the divorce for a while, and she's going to see a friend for a weekend.
10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, I don't want to talk about
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: him or the divorce or if I'm staying or not, I want to go and do something completely different.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to rejuvenate, I want to fill up on good stuff and I said thank you.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: When she picks up at the airport, you communicate that and you say that if I get talking on this, then you're going to look at your watch and be like, you get five more minutes, have them hold you accountable to that.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And the friend to your point, the one who's let's say picking her up with the airport, might be relieved.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that you acknowledge.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, and not just on this topic, not just on the desktop, but good to voice.
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so important.
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't talk about it enough.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Their friends can't hire other topic.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't make them the bad friend.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: The theme for my podcast on October was
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: really about conversations and asking more questions and the October challenge to remind listeners or if you haven't heard it, is to ask your friends more questions and that there's research that shows that people ask way fewer questions than they think.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There was an actual study.
11:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They had people reflect on conversations after the conversations, like how many questions do you think you asked your friend?
11:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm making up the numbers here.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say,
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: The person said, 20, well, like no, actually it was three and it was pretty common that people completely over estimate how much they're asking the other person meaning they're doing a lot of the talking or they made together be making observations about things talking about TV shows this and that, but they're not actually asking questions or follow up questions when anyone's going through a hard time it can be very.
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: hard to remember to think of the other person, but I actually think part of our own doing better during hard times would be to also focus on other people and not just ourselves.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a good thing to remember even if you're going through a terrible time.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I look when I'm going through certain hard things like I may have to tell people upfront I don't want to talk about this, not in an off-putting way, but almost to relieve them of the pressure they might feel to ask me about it.
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I might want to be asked about other things, just not that thing, because maybe the situation hasn't changed, and there's nothing new to say.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And also in divorce in particular, when you're dealing with relationships, discussions can feel gossipy sometimes, you know, you want to be clear with your friends about what you want to hear and what you actually might be okay not hearing for a while.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what your spouse is up to out in the community that kind of thing.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: for sure.
12:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And then trusting that when something needs to be known, you have really good friends that will come and tell you what you need to know.
13:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's important too.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You learn about that as well.
13:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's going to come on stage just so you know.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: your ox was on a date with someone so or whatnot because we don't want a bad mouth anyone and your friend who's getting divorced also doesn't want to be in the direct from what other people are talking about because that can be very painful as well.
13:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And understanding someone that's going through a divorce is grieving.
13:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a loss.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: They're mourning the loss of that union.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that comes with it.
13:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We think about friends, think about family as well, who have become your friends, like your sister-in-law, your mother-in-law, a whole side of a family that have become friends that you're very likely not going to have much of a relationship with.
13:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're feeling very lonely and very, very insecure, I have to say, your world is upside down.
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: there's all layers of family that those are kind of situational to the marriage and I hate to say it that way because it sounds so clinical or something but that is uncomfortable like if you live in the same town with all those other family but then there's even like the social media piece of it do you stay social media connected with friends are a little different because like they're your friends too but when it's your spouse's family that was your family
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about how, you know, I call my husband's cousins.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: My cousins were family now, but that's a very good point about like when you get divorced.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What happens to those layers?
14:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Your social relationships are all changing.
14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The girlfriend's did say to me, I will say I had a best friend.
14:33
[SPEAKER_00]: her husband's very good friends with my ex-husband, and she slept over some night.
14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm saying you are on the ground, raw as you can be, as vulnerable as you can be.
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: In particular, if you've been married a long time, I'd been with my ex-husband 20 years, married 18.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: All of our friends were intertwined.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything was intertwined.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Having those solid girlfriends who have your back, who hear you, who sit on the floor with you and let you cry is really important.
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's a friendship that's going to really last, you can have these open and honest conversations where it may be.
15:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, we're no longer going to have our Saturday date night once a month.
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to share and let's just own Saturday night plans or no longer.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So what can we take on now now that you're independent?
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: How does our relationship evolve and having real conversations?
15:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that means we don't go out Saturday night for a nice date dinner, but now we get a manicure product here on Sundays.
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Or now one night a week, we have dinner with just the kids so you're not doing it alone.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: your friend where she's at, if the relationship means something, if it's going to go through the next evolution of life.
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That's such an essential tip that I hope people take seriously for a lot of situations, but obviously we're talking about divorce here.
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But to be direct, I agree.
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to always figure out like how we're going to make these Saturdays work like they used to let's just accept They might not work.
16:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be nice to include single friends, but also to do other things So not always try to replicate the same night.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about just through your own experience and what you've heard from others too?
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Being out with couples when you were divorced.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you like that were you like?
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, thank you
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was an asked very often to be quite honest me and my actions to talk about if just because we're not married doesn't mean we don't like to leave the kids and have an adult dinner and a nice drink but couples hang out with couples and it's hard very good friends will include you but it's few and far between and so part of that is why I say the morning is so important.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's important for me as a coach to look at my clients and say that relationship in that framework is no longer.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's more in that.
16:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's not make our friend wrong or there has been wrong or let's be open and honest about what's that.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: happening anymore and where can they fill in the pieces for you if they're not looking to help you in a new way in a new light then you see that relationship is no longer part of your future no shame no blame it was more based on situation
17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a healthy mindset, but I can see your clients would be lucky to have you to process it with that.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to process these friendship changes.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's think about the future.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that a good segue to, okay, so maybe some of these friendships aren't going to be what you thought they were, or they're not going to be on the nights they used to take place or different activities, but you still do need something to do on Saturday night.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the next step?
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, it's making some new friends of what do you seeing that's been successful?
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What I show with my clients is it's really is important to find a new community because I promised you you're not the only single 50 year old or 40 year old or single 30 year old, but two kids at home, there are other single divorced adults in the world 50% of us and in divorce, we have to look at new places and that's all that means is that stats still the case it just went down a little bit look 47 48 something like that I just read.
18:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it's because people are getting married a little later?
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so that people are being more conscious.
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The voice is really hard when I have a couple that has an ability to stay together, we're going to work towards that because it is extremely painful and very hard.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It also is a gift yourself.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are in a relationship that is not serving you, you can't be your best for your children, if you're career.
18:33
[SPEAKER_00]: the community.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is a decision that often is the right decision as hard as it is and you are starting over and a lot of people would love that opportunity to have a do over in their life not necessarily with the person they take but you know try new things go to new places.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: and think about what's available to you now that you're not with that partner.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe now you can go listen to country music if that was something they would have never done or perhaps a yoga studio, a new work out a hobby, getting yourself to meet new single women, a community.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I hold virtual support groups and I love that because that is what helped me.
19:20
[SPEAKER_00]: because there was a few of us that were homeschooling kids while getting divorced, locked inside in the winter.
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all spoke to each other virtually, even though we were all kind of local, but it was COVID from our showers and our cars and our closets.
19:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was those relationships that really got me through.
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: for sure.
19:42
[SPEAKER_00]: When the time is right, dating is a great place to start meeting new fries.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not necessarily to find new hacks husband, but who's to say what's right around for each individual.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But to also use dating as an opportunity to connect with people that are in a similar place as you and maybe make new friendships along the way as well.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could see how that would expand your social world even if it's not going to be a romantic relationship in the end.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You meet people through people and that is part of social layers as we network through each other.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: you know I can imagine if you're a divorce and it's you're looking to expand your social world to always try to maintain what you had with these current friends.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to have those friends but you're still not going to probably meet anybody new through them because you've known them all these years.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take meeting new people and I share your advice, I agree with it, new interests, there may be old interests that you're reviving or never had time to pay attention to.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That is how anyone at any new stage of life should be approaching, having a lively, robust social life as we get older is continuing to tap into what you're interested in.
20:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And we might just have to push yourself a little more if you're going through a divorce because it's such a hard time, it's an opportunity, I guess, too.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It for sure is an opportunity.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that everyone needs time to mourn.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's when the really solid girlfriends are really important.
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones that are gonna get on the floor and lay with you, the ones are in a canceled their plans to come over and sit with you.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones who are gonna check in when they know you haven't seen your kids and you've been in a house alone for a few days.
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Or it's just stopping by or just asking if they wanna come by or feeding the kids and the house is crazy, will they come keep you company?
21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: To keep in mind, it may be a holiday
21:24
[SPEAKER_00]: The really, really core good friends are going to open up and they're going to be there and let you be raw with them before you're ready to get out there perhaps to make these new relationships and pursue these new avenues, you know, we first need to mourn and be honest about where we're at.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: and a lot of people talk about when you go through some trauma that you get into a fight or a flight mode, a lot of my clients as did I.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: We go to a mode where it's hard to find energy.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to get excited.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily depression.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just overwhelmed by everything that creates a sense of fatigue, almost a fear of getting out there.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay, you're mourning, you know, we share a common friend Terran and I remember she would bring over her son and the kids would go in the basement as she would come into my bed with me, you know, I just I wanted to be in my bed.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So you find your real friends because that's who meets you there.
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I went through cancer when I was.
22:24
[SPEAKER_00]: a young mom in my early thirties.
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I learned very quickly some friends are there for the tough times and some aren't.
22:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's up to you if you're going to still enjoy that relationship on other aspects or not.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get to decide you get to choose.
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's hard in these things is it's like the person who's in a place of need is in a low place.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not always able to ask for what they need.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: If people could find a way to ask what they need, I bet more friends would show up in the way that was desired.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They just don't know because maybe your friend hasn't had cancer, hasn't gone through a divorce.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking of holidays and divorce as a great example.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: If a friend were to ask me, can we be with you for whatever holiday is coming up?
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be so thrilled to open my doors.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You, your kids are just a that person doesn't have the kids for that holiday.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that I could promise that I would always remember to check in.
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: My dream for people out there in their friendships is that
23:21
[SPEAKER_01]: they would ask for what they need.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's asking a lot of somebody who is in a little place.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: The average person wants to be a good friend and wants to show up for their friends who are going through a tough time, but there has to be some communication on the other side, I think.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that people, they see it, you know, with trauma, death, divorce, your friends and family are going to move on a lot quicker than you are.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And they may not know that you're still struggling.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gives a tip, maybe, for anyone out there going through a hard time, I would start with the point of view of assuming the best that your friends
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: would be there for you if they knew how even two years later three years later you you don't want to be by yourself for a holiday.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Your spouse has the consent holiday or something.
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have to all in all situations just get better about speaking up.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And an ideal ideal world your friend would say hey do you have something to do for this holiday?
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course that would be really nice if we all remember that.
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people are juggling a lot of things and it's not that they're trying to be dismissive or a bad friend.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just maybe not get the level 10 ability of being able to remember everybody who might be in need.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Picture best friend.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I would hope that that person would know, but they probably would because that's a very special kind of friendship.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if the average people, friends in your life, I do think more people would step up if they knew what was needed.
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes they don't realize how lonely it is, sometimes they're like, oh, it sounds kind of nice.
24:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You got the week in a chill, but they don't realize.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone has said that to me in the context of friendship and divorce, that's a very insensitive comment to make that.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't say if they were complaining to me about someone else saying it, exactly what you just said.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't love to focus on what not to say.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I very purposely don't spend a lot of time on that in episodes.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: because it makes friends who are trying to show up scared to show up because they're like, oh my god, I'm going to say the wrong thing.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is a good example of, and you brought it up, I think it's important.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This assumption that, oh yeah, that sounds nice.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, I get like a night or two to myself, but it's with a lot of trauma around it.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just because I got amount of girls weekend.
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not what people are looking for.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: not at all.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we talked about how you asked your friend's questions.
25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why it's also important for us to go or say, to say, okay, I'm only talking about this for five more months and then how are you and specifically, and take it off yourself?
25:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when they start talking, you realize, oh, wow, they do have a lot going on too.
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We all do.
25:45
[SPEAKER_01]: to also let you feel like a regular friend.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, and if I'm never going through anything, I have to imagine someone going through a divorce, also wants to be able to be a friend that shows up.
25:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to feel that that part of their life that still got that part going on, you don't want to only focus on yourself.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And to have some laughs and get into the everyday life to get out of the depths and darkness of what you're dealing with.
26:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if someone's morning a loss or a divorce, it's important to try at some point to remove ourselves from the depth of that despair and get with our girlfriends to do something like giggle see a movie have us sleep over do what you need to do to allow each other to just let loose a little bit.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: and get part of the little bit every day of light.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there any of final words you want to share with listeners?
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I know that there are going to be a lot of people tuned into this from both ends of it.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who's been recently divorced or somebody who has a friend going through a divorce.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say to those that have friends or family going through it just to have a lot of compassion for them and keep showing up in different ways and you'll see what works for you guys for those that are considering in the process or post divorce I strongly encourage you to work with.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: a life coach like myself or a therapist, a trained expert or someone that's been through it to be that girl friend that you need, where you can sit in a safe space and confide and let go and then consciously decide what you want from your relationships and what you're going to put out into the world.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Put on your seatbook because it is a new journey and new beautiful friends are about to show up for you.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It when you welcome this new space, this new place of being
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I love ending on a positive note.
27:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing your experience and the help you've given to clients.
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, be wonderful for everybody to have somebody like you and their corner as are going through such a transition.
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why support groups are wonderful as well because then you know you aren't not alone.
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: that your feelings are valent, that you are seen, and to be seen by others that have gone through your shoes, it's incredibly powerful, and the healing happens so much quicker in community.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I love their names, Hope.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's the perfect name for what you do.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So listeners, I will have all the ways you can find Hope in the show notes.
28:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Reach out to her, and she can help you out to point you in the right direction.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Hope, thank you.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad we got to have this conversation.
28:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
28:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to come back.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We can talk all day about the real class.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Listeners, come back next week when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.
28:26
[UNKNOWN]: Bye!