Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Matt Stone: From Muscle Cars to MotorTrend and Beyond

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Matt Stone: From Muscle Cars to MotorTrend and Beyond · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Break Fix Podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all
• 0:05
  over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors,
• 0:09
  designers, and everything in between.
• 0:11
  Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder how did they
• 0:17
  get that job or become that person.
• 0:19
  The Road to Success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
• 0:27
  Our guest has been a professional automotive journalist and photographer
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  since 1990 and has evolved his career from managing editor of MotorTrend
• 0:36
  Magazine and the editor of MotorTrend Classic Magazine to becoming a freelance
• 0:40
  journalist, author, and broadcaster with numerous titles and credits to his name.
• 0:45
  That's right, Eric, an in typical break thick fashion.
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  He's here to tell us how it all started, how he became the Matt Stone we all know
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  today, and what's next on his agenda.
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  So with that, let's welcome.
• 0:57
  Matt to break things.
• 0:59
  Welcome aboard.
• 1:00
  If I had any clue as to how I got here, I'll tell you, but I'll make
• 1:04
  something up to fill the void.
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  Well, as Bill Warner likes to say, the older we get, the faster we were.
• 1:10
  So that being said, let's fast forward through your Petrolhead origin story.
• 1:14
  How did you become the Matt Stone?
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  We all know and recognize, did you come from a car family?
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  Did it start as a kid or did you come into it later in life?
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  No, it was a mutant gene from pretty early on.
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  My dad was the quintessential car guy and he had hot rotted flatheads
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  and then sports cars, and then muscle cars and all kinds of stuff.
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  And to his credit, and with the approval of my long suffering
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  mother, we always did car things.
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  We fixed old cars, we detailed cars.
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  We went to car shows, we went to car dealerships, we went to races.
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  We just did all of that.
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  Young car guy stuff.
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  And I either credit or blame my father for starting me on this path, although,
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  uh, there was a big stutter step in the middle because I actually started
• 1:59
  out in the real estate business, which was my parents' business as well.
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  Photography was my hobby because it was my dad's hobby.
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  So we used to shoot together races, cars, pictures, dealers, whatever.
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  And it just kind of all started growing there.
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  And I started out in this pursuit as a photographer, although I
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  did ultimately have a minor in, uh, creative writing in college.
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  And I used to enter the creative writing contest, wrote all kinds
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  of stuff, and sometimes even won.
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  And one day I'd gone to photograph a race at the late Great
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  Riverside International Raceway.
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  So the editor calls me, he said, well, hey, got your picks.
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  They look great.
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  By the way, the writer didn't show up, so could you do a thing?
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  Uh, sure how, how, how many words in this thing?
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  And that's kind of where it started.
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  And then from there it was club newsletters and club magazines and
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  concourse programs and all other kind of amateur kind of stuff.
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  Until one day I got fed up reading some crappy car magazines and I kind
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  of threw it across the room and my long suffering wife, Linda said,
• 3:05
  well, what's the matter with you?
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  I said, this magazine is just crap.
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  She says, well, stop complaining and see if you can do better.
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  Here we are 30, however many years later, and we'll get into
• 3:16
  that story more as we go along.
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  Matt, you and I both born and raised in California.
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  I know I was exposed to a lot of really, really interesting cars.
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  What are some of the highlights that you've owned?
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  My first car being a guy that grew up in the seventies, of course, had to have 4
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  55 cubic inches and a hears dual gate.
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  And dual exhaust and cold air intake and everything, and
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  that was my 1971 olds 4, 4, 2.
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  That was my first car, right in the middle of the gas crunch.
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  First timing, everything because they were cheap.
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  I mean, I wanted it no matter what it cost.
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  That was a used car that got sucky gas mileage.
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  In the mid seventies and didn't cost a lot.
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  So luckily the muscle car thing played right into my
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  tire burning hands at the time.
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  So my 71 4 4 2 is always will hold a special place in my heart.
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  And after that, now don't anybody laugh.
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  Came, uh, Porsche 9 24.
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  Do not be making fun of that car because even though they weren't fast, they
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  handled just like a car on a rail.
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  They were beautifully balanced, had great weight distribution and very neutral.
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  I mean, I really learned to drive a sports.
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  And then following that was my 72 screaming yellow zonker.
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  Dick Tomaso Pantera.
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  Oh, now that one is the one that got away.
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  I would have again, if I could afford it.
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  And I love that car.
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  It's probably the car that I am most identified with.
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  And you know what's funny is you share that in common with one of
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  our previous guests, John Davis from Motor Week said the same thing.
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  He's identified with his Pantera and it's one of the ones that got away.
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  Yeah.
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  John and I have had that conversation.
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  He said like, yeah, how smart were we to sell those cars when we thought getting,
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  you know, 21 5 was a lot of money for it.
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  And after that has come a, a succession of other things.
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  I mean, there'd been a lot of mustangs, another pair of Porsches
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  and I had a sun bean tiger.
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  And, um, just trying to kind of walk through the mental catalog growing up in
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  California, especially Southern California during the seventies and eighties,
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  there's a particular car culture there.
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  You weren't at the beginning because the beginning was really the hot rod days and
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  you know, post World War ii and then there was the shift still being in California.
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  You've seen car culture change over the years.
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  How has it changed for the better and what do you miss from your time
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  growing up, we had it all here.
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  We had exotics, we had muscle, we had rods.
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  There was racing, there was economy cars, there were pintos, there were Vegas,
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  there were gremlins, all sorts of stuff.
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  I mean, it was all here and whatever was your flavor, you saw it, you could learn
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  about it, you could buy it, drive it.
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  Spa over whatever.
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  We were so lucky that it was all here.
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  The cars you appreciated as a kid.
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  Are they still, the cars you appreciate today, especially having test driven
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  and written about so many cars, was there a car that really got you excited?
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  I would say yes, but it's only added two.
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  It hasn't necessarily been replaced.
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  The cars that I went for, you know, it was like most of us muscle cars and,
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  and the fast and dangerous stuff when we were kids, the poster cars and all
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  that that I loved than I still do.
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  But all the cars and events and people and stuff that I have met in the ensuing
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  30 years, I found more things to love.
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  So it isn't like as cars got faster meaner and more dangerous.
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  They replace the old ones.
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  It is just a different perspective on the same brand of lunacy and
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  to have it and what do I miss or what's better, that's tough.
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  'cause it's never stopped being fabulous to me.
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  I'm not jaded in any way by being in the business.
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  I still love it.
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  I love the cars, I love the people.
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  I love the places and all the culture that goes with cars and cars and TV and
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  movies and commercials and all that stuff.
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  All the pop culture stuff.
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  What has changed?
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  You know, I probably don't go out hanging and banging with buddies on Friday and
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  Saturday nights, trying to see if some young girl would find us attractive,
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  which didn't happen for me too often, very early, but fortunately came along later.
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  I mean, that was all so much fun.
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  And that's when a place called in-N-Out first opened up.
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  You know, we used to go to In-N-Out and for, you know, then
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  I think it was about 59 cents.
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  Got you.
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  The double, double the fries and the drink.
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  I will also say that I thought very important at the time and
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  I think is legitimate today, but maybe not always, but should be.
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  You are car guys and gals.
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  Nobody judge you on how much money you had, whether you were black,
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  white, purple, green, Jewish, Christian, none of that matter.
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  Your car guys and gals were your friends and that's it.
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  And some of 'em had more money than the rest and some of 'em had
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  less and some of 'em did the best they could with what they had.
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  Some of 'em did the best they could, that mom and dad bought them.
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  And we didn't really judge much by that.
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  We were all friends in the same pot.
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  I don't know if that's true much now or not, but it really was then.
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  And I valued that.
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  I mean that was, I think a great lesson and great fun.
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  'cause we were all there for the same enthusiasm and it
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  just, The rest didn't matter.
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  I think being a car guy part for me, that was always really fun.
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  I noticed I didn't have to know your name.
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  You didn't have to know my name.
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  We would just meet up at Bob's.
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  We would meet up at car night, we would meet up at Merkel's.
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  We would meet up at whatever.
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  We'd know each other.
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  Oh yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You're the Porsche guy.
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  Oh yeah, yeah.
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  You're the fiat guy.
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  And we would just know each other.
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  If a cop asks us for a name, wow, we have no idea.
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  We can tell you all about the car he drives, but forget
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  about names and all that stuff.
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  We don't deal with names that Pearl Blue, they've got.
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  Wow.
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  That was something else.
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  And I, I always love that about car guys.
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  We don't have to know each other's names.
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  We don't know much about each other outside of the cars.
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  I always thought that was terrific.
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  A terrific comradery, instant connection.
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  Yeah.
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  Through that conduit.
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  We were all the same.
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  And I remember, just to back up a little quarter of a step, I was talking
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  with my dad about all of this kind of thing when I was first getting into it.
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  And he was saying, you know, back just after World War ii, he
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  said, same thing, your car guys.
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  He says, you know, my best friends were Japanese, they
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  were Armenian, they were black.
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  They were Mexican.
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  He says We were all poor.
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  We were all car guys.
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  All that stuff didn't matter and it truly didn't.
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  And my father, to his credit, lived his life that way on purpose or
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  unknowingly and grand dead in me.
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  And I will always appreciate that because his attitude was, we were
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  just poor car guys looking for gas money, how to get another set of
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  carburetors and better tires and you know, blah and blah and blah, and they
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  have date night money and all that.
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  He's, we were just poor kids that love cars.
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  It didn't matter from W you can't.
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  And I think there's an egalitarianism about that that I
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  think is particularly bitching.
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  Nobody told 'em to be that way.
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  That's how it was.
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  It was organic and it was a great thing then and, and I think when
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  it's prevalent, it's the great thing.
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  Now, we've talked to other guests on the show about the difference between car
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  culture on the East coast versus the West Coast, especially folks that have moved
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  from one side of the country to the other.
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  'cause the East coast is riddled with historic racetracks.
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  Everything's much closer together on this side of the country, per se.
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  But there's something interesting about California, and it's the dichotomy that
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  exists between the north and the South.
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  That being San Francisco versus la, if you kind of break it down to those
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  two major N F L cities, Car culture in LA seems to combat carb out of the
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  north because you see it even today.
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  Where does the EV revolution or the evolution as we like to call
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  it around here, stem from Northern California and in Southern California?
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  You've still got guys all over the place in Temecula and Riverside
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  and so on, building hot rods.
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  So it's kind of weird how that coexists, but at the same time
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  influences the entire country.
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  So I'm wondering in your eyes, Matt, as you see the EVs coming online, even since
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  you've been reporting about them since the early days of the gm EV one up until
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  today, how has that changed car culture?
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  Yes and no.
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  My motto is horses for courses, no right tool or right job.
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  There are a lot of jobs.
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  In other words, commuting your transportation cycle, your whatever you
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  do, where an EV is the perfect vehicle.
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  I don't want that taken away, the 4 27 Cobra, but there are times and
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  places where that EV is the right and a very good choice, but yet I don't
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  believe in terms of US enthusiasts it will ever replace our hot rods and
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  pickups and cobras and all that stuff.
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  I don't know that, I don't believe that gasoline will ever be legislate
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  it away, or they'll make us park all those cars in garages and museums.
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  I truly don't see that happening.
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  I don't.
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  I think they can coexist.
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  My wife drives a plugin hybrid Hyundai right now and she wants the Pure electric
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  Hyundai next time because for the way she drives, she just loves the fact that
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  she can go however many dozens and dozens and dozens of miles and not using a gas.
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  I think there's value in that.
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  How we make the electricity of course impacts the whole thing.
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  And what do we do when we have to recycle all these batteries?
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  I mean, the equation is not fully formed, but I think there's value
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  there and I don't see it replacing the enthusiasm that we all love.
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  It may alter it may change, and the guys and gals that love their
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  customized Teslas good for them.
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  If they're automotive enthusiasts, that's fine with me.
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  I'd rather have them in the tent.
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  I think you've hit the nail on the head with that too.
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  It's not so much a breaking up of the community.
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  I like EVs.
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  I like hybrids.
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  I think they're interesting and they're fun.
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  Like you, I don't think they're gonna replace anything, but they do sort
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  of open the door for a new dynamic.
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  The hobby and maybe even a new type of personality to join the hobby.
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  More of the tech people, the younger people, et cetera.
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  I mean, let's face it, most 25 year olds, they don't relate to your Pantera.
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  They don't relate to your 71 4, 4 2.
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  They need something that they can relate to.
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  And hey, the Prius, the Tesla, the Lucid, all these new EVs that
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  are coming out, they speak to them and I think that's great.
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  If money was no object and you wanted to buy an EV today, is there
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  one that you would lean towards?
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  Hmm.
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  I will speak for the household.
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  I suspect my wife's next car will be an ionic five 'cause that's a terribly
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  well-designed and clever automobile.
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  Beautiful to drive.
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  You put it in sport mode, it ain't quick.
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  It is fast.
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  It's fun to drive and it is just great to go, you know, for hundred
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  miles and not pollute the air.
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  I see great enthusiasm in it, I suppose.
• 13:53
  Uh, one of them little ty hands would be kind of fun to own.
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  I often recommend to people that ask value for money.
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  I think the Mach e is a very good choice these days.
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  I was going right there and you beat me to it.
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  A lot of people scoff at that.
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  A friend of mine says, well, you know, Ford goes and builds an
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  electric S u V and calls it a Mustang.
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  What's your problem with that?
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  Well, it's not a Mustang.
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  Well, you know what it is, and Bill Ford says it is, and
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  it says Mustang right on it.
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  And they have said publicly and often that this is only a new Mustang
• 14:25
  in the corral, not replacing all the other horses in the stable.
• 14:29
  If that remains to be true, then why not?
• 14:32
  If they made a Mustang SS u V and powered it with gas, there's still people that
• 14:36
  wouldn't like it, so why not make it an interesting technology platform?
• 14:40
  You have driven one of those.
• 14:41
  They are a hoot.
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  I mean, that thing is fun to drive.
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  It handles the packaging.
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  The technology is magnificent and it flat hauls butts.
• 14:51
  And then the naming debate, I mean, their alternative was the Pinto.
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  And you know, we all know how that turned out.
• 14:57
  So we don't need to go there again.
• 14:59
  But let's talk a little bit more about California and it's
• 15:03
  the IT place for car culture.
• 15:04
  But before we get into who's who in the zoo, I wanna talk
• 15:08
  about how you and Don met.
• 15:11
  Well, let's see.
• 15:12
  I think I saw him face down drunk in a gutter somewhere.
• 15:16
  I wondered if you were gonna tell the real story.
• 15:18
  I didn't know if you were gonna go there.
• 15:19
  I tried to pick him up, but I couldn't.
• 15:21
  So we just talked for a little while and then finally he got up and stormed away.
• 15:25
  No, no.
• 15:26
  We Lincoln people, that's all we do is run around and drink.
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  That's it.
• 15:30
  That's true.
• 15:30
  We are both confessed Lincoln Fools.
• 15:33
  And I'm not apologizing for that.
• 15:35
  I was on staff.
• 15:36
  I believe as senior or maybe executive editor at MotorTrend at the time.
• 15:41
  And Don joined as an intern helper all around helper guy, wrangling
• 15:45
  cars and getting cars to the test track and cars that needed to be
• 15:49
  serviced or washed or gassed or tested or photographed or whatever.
• 15:53
  And we just kind of met there.
• 15:55
  And the, at the MotorTrend water cooler, been friends ever since.
• 15:59
  And, uh, that was a good day.
• 16:01
  I do miss my MotorTrend days.
• 16:02
  Those were fun.
• 16:03
  You know, one thing I really admired about you, Matt, or maybe not
• 16:06
  admired, but I I was more fascinated by, were all the people you knew.
• 16:11
  My God.
• 16:11
  You get a call in the front desk.
• 16:13
  I'm, I'm looking around for that shrimp, uh, you call Matt Stone.
• 16:17
  Oh, yes sir.
• 16:18
  May I ask who's calling?
• 16:19
  Carol, Shelby.
• 16:20
  God damn.
• 16:20
  Put him on the phone.
• 16:22
  Yes, sir.
• 16:22
  Right away, sir.
• 16:23
  Holy cow.
• 16:25
  Tom Sharda, Bob Peterson, on and on it goes, you just drop these names.
• 16:29
  It's like, oh yeah.
• 16:30
  Matt Stone.
• 16:31
  Oh yeah, Matt Stone.
• 16:32
  Oh yeah, Matt Stone.
• 16:33
  Okay.
• 16:33
  Now all of the listeners are getting nauseous at this point,
• 16:37
  but yeah, I have met my heroes.
• 16:40
  Even a few enemies, mostly heroes.
• 16:43
  When I chose cars as my life, not just a job, but as a passion and a hobby and a
• 16:48
  consumption, along with it came the most fascinating people, places and things.
• 16:54
  I have done car things around the world, and that's no exaggeration,
• 16:58
  and that has made for more memorable memories, Don than I can think of is
• 17:03
  all the people that I've had the chance to come in contact with and befriend
• 17:08
  and work with and interview and report on, and just come to know his friends.
• 17:13
  I can't calculate the value in that.
• 17:15
  You and I have spent a little bit of time talking about the ghosts that haunt us.
• 17:19
  I brought up once that I couldn't get away from Clark Gable.
• 17:22
  The man follows me as a ghost.
• 17:25
  Every time I turn around, there's some writing projects, some photo
• 17:28
  projects, something that comes up.
• 17:30
  Clark Gable's all over it.
• 17:31
  You know, we looked at a house long time ago, big Dream House.
• 17:34
  We could never afford it, but this thing was out in Encino.
• 17:37
  I wanted to go see it.
• 17:38
  It was an old house.
• 17:39
  Looked really cool.
• 17:40
  So we go marching out there all the way out to the valley.
• 17:42
  Sure enough, it's Clark Gable's old house.
• 17:44
  I mean, it's just little things like that that always I trip over and I
• 17:47
  was telling you about this one day, and you told me that you had a very
• 17:50
  similar ghost with Steve McQueen.
• 17:52
  Did you ever meet Steve McQueen personally?
• 17:55
  I know you know Chad, his son.
• 17:56
  What about Steve himself?
• 17:58
  No, I did not.
• 17:59
  Steve McQueen passed away November 7th, 1980.
• 18:03
  Early days in college.
• 18:04
  Then I think I saw him one time somewhere at some event or a race.
• 18:10
  I never meet him, didn't know him.
• 18:12
  Just was a fan.
• 18:13
  I thought, you know, when I was at the CAMA Dome Theater, the closest thing
• 18:18
  we had back then to an IMAX experience.
• 18:22
  Really giant tall screens, gigantic wraparound screen, very
• 18:27
  immersive with incredible sound.
• 18:30
  Mm-hmm And, and when I was 10 years old in 1968, my father took me to see Bullock.
• 18:35
  And I will never forget getting queasy from the in-camera shots
• 18:40
  of that Mustang bouncing down Taylor Street in San Francisco.
• 18:44
  I got nauseous 'cause it was so real and I thought, you know, this guy erases.
• 18:50
  He is stupid, handsome, ridiculously sexy.
• 18:53
  Impossibly cool and a good actor and he can obviously drive a car.
• 18:58
  I was magnetized by his style and his nest and uh, that's why I've written
• 19:03
  three books and countless articles about Steve McQueen as a car guy and
• 19:07
  a motorcycle enthusiast and racer, because I just thought this is about
• 19:11
  the coolest dude that ever worked.
• 19:13
  And actually there's one that I have come to know in person that's even
• 19:16
  cooler, but we can come back to that.
• 19:17
  But Steve McQueen just rattled my cage big time.
• 19:21
  From about 10 years old and once I got into this business, I found all
• 19:25
  sorts of interesting things to know and learn and write about Steve McQueen and
• 19:29
  about his cars and bikes and all that.
• 19:31
  How did you meet Chad McQueen then?
• 19:33
  How did that happen?
• 19:34
  Yes.
• 19:34
  There was one of Steve McQueen's cars that had been kind of
• 19:40
  languishing and hidden somewhere.
• 19:42
  His RI two 50 G T L Luso that was purchased and then restored
• 19:48
  to absolute Pebble Beach levels.
• 19:50
  I think it was the restorer, Mike Regalia who contacted us and said, Hey, you know,
• 19:56
  I have Steve McQueen's old Ferrari and I've just restored it to Pebble Beach
• 20:00
  Quality and you know, would you guys for your MotorTrend Classic magazine,
• 20:04
  maybe wanna do an article on this?
• 20:06
  Well dur.
• 20:07
  So I said, of course.
• 20:08
  And so we picked a place to meet for the photo shoot and then he says, oh, and by
• 20:12
  the way, son, Chad's gonna be there too.
• 20:14
  'cause he is never seen the car.
• 20:16
  The car was there, the restorer was there, the photographer was
• 20:19
  there and Chad and I were there and we met, been friends ever since.
• 20:21
  And that's been probably 15, 20, maybe long time.
• 20:24
  Tom Sharda each one of the greatest.
• 20:27
  You were actually very, very close friends with him.
• 20:29
  How did you come across meeting him?
• 20:31
  How'd that happen?
• 20:32
  I owned three cars that he designed.
• 20:34
  I had my de Tomaso Panera, my di Tomaso long shot coup and
• 20:39
  my de Tomaso Deville sedan.
• 20:41
  And uh, we covered at the time greatly to deep extent all of
• 20:46
  the International Auto Show.
• 20:48
  And Tom and all the designer guys that I got to know would go to
• 20:51
  them, gym, nva, tur, Frankfurt.
• 20:54
  All the designers would go to see what all the other studios
• 20:58
  and car makers were doing.
• 20:59
  And the media was there.
• 21:01
  And usually the designer preview day and the media day were the same.
• 21:05
  So one time I just walked up to him and said, Tom, I'd like to introduce myself.
• 21:10
  I have one of your cars.
• 21:12
  Which one, what color?
• 21:13
  And we became fast friends.
• 21:15
  He unfortunately died five, six years ago.
• 21:17
  I.
• 21:18
  And got to know each other very well.
• 21:19
  We met several times in Italy and we could sit and talk about cars for as
• 21:23
  long as you and I can, or maybe longer, but what a brilliant, brilliant and
• 21:28
  fine, fine gentleman and designer.
• 21:30
  So, Tom Char, one of my, one of my automotive industry heroes
• 21:34
  and a hell of a nice man.
• 21:35
  So, you know, it's funny, you guys are, are talking about this and who you know
• 21:39
  and, and who you've met and who you'd befriended and Don was talking about
• 21:42
  every time he turns around you got Clark Gable and talking about designers like
• 21:46
  Jada and I, I have a similar sort of thing and came to me later as a student
• 21:51
  of history, I like to sometimes focus on some of the more odd cars or some things.
• 21:57
  People would maybe consider more germane.
• 21:59
  And so what I realized is every time I turned around, there was
• 22:02
  one name that always surfaced.
• 22:04
  You look up cars, even supercars at the time, like the Morro or the Mangusta, and
• 22:08
  you travel over to Germany and you talk about the Rocco and the Gulf or to Italy
• 22:13
  to the launch of Delta or the Fiat Panda.
• 22:16
  And even the DeLorean DMC 12 and one name is behind all of those
• 22:20
  cars and it's often overlooked.
• 22:21
  And that's Gito Juro again, one of my personal heroes that I'd love to meet.
• 22:26
  So I wonder, have you crossed paths with Juro?
• 22:28
  Yes, I have.
• 22:29
  Who's an amazing, amazing guy.
• 22:32
  Absolutely the greatest car designer ever.
• 22:34
  Period.
• 22:35
  And to date, I think when you look at his portfolio, the depth and the
• 22:39
  breadth, I mean, he made as many fast and dangerous cars as anybody, but
• 22:43
  of course the early golf and that original panda with all flat glass.
• 22:48
  I mean, this man is a transportation designer, par Excellence.
• 22:53
  I've met him, he's as enthusiastic and he's 84 years old now, and
• 22:58
  he just emits energy and karma from every pore in his body.
• 23:03
  And what's amazing that you would appreciate Eric, is you talk about
• 23:06
  some car and he'll grab this piece of paper and he just whips out a
• 23:10
  pencil and he starts sketching.
• 23:12
  And there it's whether he designed it or not, he makes four lines
• 23:15
  and all of a sudden there's a car.
• 23:17
  And it's a car you recognize and it's good.
• 23:19
  A magnificent guy, your taste I admire and I concur, I believe
• 23:23
  is so far the best ever.
• 23:25
  And there have been a lot of great ones and I've been fortunate to meet
• 23:28
  a few of them, but I don't think anybody has done more and more better.
• 23:32
  Than Giro and like you, having owned several Gira cars, I've personally
• 23:36
  owned several Giro cars and test driven plenty as well, because
• 23:40
  maybe you know better than most.
• 23:43
  The relationship between John DeLorean and Giro has always been a mystery to me,
• 23:48
  and there's definitely design language in the D DMC 12 that leans a little bit.
• 23:54
  Audi a little bit, B M W, some Volkswagen, definitely Hyundai Pony,
• 23:59
  1974 from the etal design portfolio.
• 24:02
  John DeLorean was known as a car designer, you know, the father of
• 24:06
  the G T O and all these kinds of things, and a masterful engineer.
• 24:09
  But he outsourced the car to this Italian guy.
• 24:13
  How did that all come about?
• 24:14
  He really wasn't a car designer.
• 24:16
  He was a, as you say, a car engineer.
• 24:19
  A car, conceiver a car, brainstormer for sure.
• 24:22
  In his autobiography, which I have now read front to back to back
• 24:26
  to front, he talks about that.
• 24:28
  'cause he said he felt at the time that Jja was the best man in the business
• 24:33
  for designing that type of car.
• 24:35
  And he wanted to go to the best.
• 24:37
  And he knew that his company was too small to warrant building a design studio
• 24:43
  and staff to take on such a huge job.
• 24:47
  And he says several places in that book that he felt Jja was the best man in
• 24:51
  the industry designing cars, period.
• 24:53
  I think that reason answers itself, plus whatever he paid him was cheaper
• 24:57
  than building his own in-house design studio and hiring people of that talent
• 25:02
  and that caliber, which would've cost a lot more than just contracting him.
• 25:06
  It's my understanding, of course, from reading John, he just felt Juto was
• 25:10
  the best, and especially because he had done so many exotic and gulling type
• 25:16
  cars that he was the man for that job.
• 25:19
  Do you think there was a conflict of interest between Giro and Chapman who
• 25:24
  were both working on the DeLorean project?
• 25:27
  Not that I could identify.
• 25:29
  John in his autobiography was very effusive in praise to gi, very happy
• 25:36
  with the job he did for him, and he certainly had clashes with Chapman.
• 25:41
  Although I don't believe it was created because of the relationship with Jro.
• 25:46
  I think Chapman wanted to do certain things, certain ways, and John DeLorean
• 25:50
  wanted to do other things otherwise, and they didn't always meet in the
• 25:53
  middle at production or reality.
• 25:55
  That's where I believe that stemmed from.
• 25:56
  I have never found evidence, I should say, that the relationship, that
• 26:00
  triangle between Juro, DeLorean, and Chapman was ever an issue.
• 26:05
  So I bring this up, especially for our audience that's listening to this,
• 26:08
  and they're probably wondering when are we gonna talk about Matt's time at
• 26:11
  MotorTrend and all that exciting stuff.
• 26:12
  And we're definitely gonna get there, but we're taking a little bit of a circuitous
• 26:16
  path, only because you're actually working on a book right now about DeLorean, and
• 26:21
  so I wanted to explore these thoughts as we were talking about designers and
• 26:25
  folks that you've met, and it's all part of your research for your new book.
• 26:28
  Do you wanna expand on that just a little bit or even
• 26:31
  briefly about what you're doing?
• 26:32
  Yeah, there have been a lot of DeLorean books written and published.
• 26:36
  Some of them are good, some of them are not.
• 26:39
  None of them are very recent.
• 26:41
  And none of them are really comprehensive.
• 26:43
  There are some that are nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts and guts about the
• 26:47
  car and the development in the company.
• 26:49
  And there are some that are very biographical about John DeLorean's career.
• 26:53
  General Motors, post General Motors, all sorts of embezzlement schemes.
• 26:58
  Gm, yeah, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:00
  And I don't believe anybody in anything recent has written anything that
• 27:06
  include the cars in the movies, how the company and the car came about,
• 27:10
  why it failed, what it means today.
• 27:13
  That's critical.
• 27:14
  Fools like Don and I just love them.
• 27:15
  As a matter of fact, Don beat me to the punch and he owns one.
• 27:18
  And I don't.
• 27:19
  But no matter that is my program, I'm, I'm coming at this from a very
• 27:23
  much of a journalistic attitude.
• 27:25
  Although I would say as an enthusiast, not a giddy, over
• 27:28
  the top, everything was perfect.
• 27:30
  'cause that ain't me, that's not my style at all.
• 27:33
  Nor am I coming with any intent of destroying or trashing his legacy.
• 27:37
  I'm trying to follow the path, follow the story, wherever it leads me, and
• 27:41
  including the common threads like companies that are trying to rebirth.
• 27:45
  Mark, all these new DeLoreans that are supposedly gonna be built, and some
• 27:50
  will and some most likely will not.
• 27:53
  Some are just vaporware.
• 27:55
  Nothing's been written about that story as it's evolved in 10 or 15 years,
• 27:59
  so that's kind of where I'm going.
• 28:01
  That actually does lead us back to your time at MotorTrend because nobody starts
• 28:05
  at the top, and so let's talk about.
• 28:07
  How you got there, how it all started.
• 28:09
  You got your degree from Cal Poly Pomona, you know, major in business with
• 28:13
  journalism, marketing, things like that.
• 28:14
  You talk briefly about how you got into the real estate business,
• 28:17
  which was your parents' business and you ended up working in magazines.
• 28:20
  'cause you said, I can do better.
• 28:22
  So you get to MotorTrend, but that's not the MotorTrend we all know today when we
• 28:27
  turn on the TV or we stream it off the internet or we pick up the latest copy
• 28:31
  of Roadkill or Hot Rod or whatever it is.
• 28:33
  What was it like back then?
• 28:36
  How did I get there?
• 28:37
  Well, it's a, a long path.
• 28:38
  When I first decided to get outta real estate and, and do
• 28:42
  this freelance journalism and photography thing as my vocation.
• 28:46
  I did that for some number of years, and then after a while, the editor at the
• 28:50
  time, uh, van Toon, who was editor in chief of MotorTrend said, you know, we're
• 28:55
  gonna do a retrospective on the first four generations of Thunderbirds, and you
• 28:59
  understand classic cars, Matt Stone, and why don't you write that piece for us?
• 29:04
  So I did.
• 29:05
  Right about that time, he said, you know, uh, we're about ready to open up a
• 29:08
  staff position here as a features editor.
• 29:11
  And I thought, well, you know, I've learned a lot about magazines and stuff
• 29:15
  on the outside of the business, but I could certainly learn more on the inside.
• 29:18
  So he offered me the job and I took it and 15 years later I was still there.
• 29:23
  It was a great ride.
• 29:23
  And then I was features editor and then senior editor and became executive editor.
• 29:27
  And then also I was editor of my own title called MotorTrend Classic.
• 29:31
  In the beginning the focus was on making the best car magazine that.
• 29:36
  That was authoritative hopefully in the business and the industry.
• 29:39
  And we had very, very legitimate and outstanding
• 29:43
  performance of Dynamics testing.
• 29:45
  We said that card did zero to 60 and six eight, that's what it did.
• 29:49
  'cause there'd be five runs to back it up and two different radar guns
• 29:52
  tracking it and, and everything else.
• 29:53
  So, uh, the testing was very, very important at the time.
• 29:57
  And at that same time, a lot of the TV programs were also coming about.
• 30:01
  So were you involved with that as well?
• 30:02
  Did they feed each other or were they totally independent from one another?
• 30:06
  Oh no, they were definitely connected.
• 30:08
  I mean, it would be pretty rare that we'd go out and do a car of
• 30:11
  the year competition or a three or a five car road test that we
• 30:15
  didn't have a TV crew along with us.
• 30:17
  We would learn how to voice that stuff and how to drive a
• 30:19
  camera and do all that jazz.
• 30:21
  That was actually a lot of fun.
• 30:23
  Sure burned down a lot of time.
• 30:24
  If anybody has ever done prerecorded television, it doesn't generally go quick.
• 30:29
  Although our camera people and producers got pretty good at not
• 30:33
  slowing down what we were doing, they captured what we were doing.
• 30:36
  It was very seldom we would have a discussion or do a drive thing and they'd
• 30:40
  say, oh, you know, we don't like that.
• 30:41
  Stop.
• 30:42
  Do it again.
• 30:42
  Like, no.
• 30:44
  We just did it.
• 30:45
  We're gonna do this now.
• 30:46
  You touched on how it could slow you down, working at MotorTrend, having
• 30:51
  the TV crew kind of tagging along.
• 30:53
  Can you expand on that a little bit and tell us how the TV crew maybe complimented
• 30:58
  the print version and the internet version, how the three of them kind of
• 31:01
  work together as a sphere to create one.
• 31:04
  Product that delivered news.
• 31:06
  We were still learning all that at the time because the internet was fairly new.
• 31:11
  Television was seven local channels and cable, and that's what it was.
• 31:15
  Right.
• 31:16
  We didn't really know we were learning it at the time, but the point is, You
• 31:20
  wanted to be consistent of the message.
• 31:22
  I mean, it was still all the same MotorTrend.
• 31:24
  That's what the consumer, the reader, the viewer, had to surmise that this
• 31:29
  was the same entity talking to them.
• 31:31
  And at that point, one complimented the other.
• 31:34
  And there would be times we'd say, Hey, if you want a longer look at this story,
• 31:37
  pick up the June issue of the magazine.
• 31:39
  Or if you wanna see these three cars out on the road moving and burning
• 31:43
  rubber and doing whatever, check out MotorTrend television on Tuesday.
• 31:47
  So there were chances for a little cross pollination there.
• 31:50
  And as long as you were consistent of message, then they
• 31:54
  worked together pretty well.
• 31:55
  And it was worth the extra effort and time to do all those platforms
• 31:59
  as we were learning about.
• 32:00
  And it was fun 'cause I learned a lot about television and that,
• 32:03
  and went on to do a lot of various television projects over time.
• 32:07
  Then of course, as the internet came in and the company changed hands and
• 32:10
  changed hands and hands and hand and hands again, more and more, digital
• 32:14
  publishing became part of the mix.
• 32:16
  And the magazine has got lesser and lesser priority, but uh, when I
• 32:20
  started it was just the magazine and then finally came TV and internet and
• 32:24
  the digital Confluence has reshaped the way all of that came about.
• 32:28
  There's obviously direct competitors like Car and Driver
• 32:32
  and Road and Track out there.
• 32:34
  Did you consider Motor Week on that list?
• 32:36
  Did you consider other things as your competitors in the space or were you all
• 32:40
  respective of each other's swim lanes?
• 32:43
  The competition for newsstand, single issue sales was fast and furious.
• 32:49
  That's what advertisers wanted.
• 32:50
  That's what advertisers paid for.
• 32:52
  We didn't adjust our content to please advertisers, but we adjusted our content
• 32:57
  to please subscribers and particularly newsstand, single issue purchasers.
• 33:03
  That was the battleground.
• 33:04
  Car and driver and road and track were the evil empires.
• 33:07
  Although we were friends with all those people, we traveled together
• 33:11
  on media trips and we knew each other and it was fine, but we wanted to
• 33:15
  beat them in the subscription numbers.
• 33:17
  On the newsstand.
• 33:18
  And then along with tv, I guess Motor Week was probably our closest
• 33:23
  competitor because they were both a feature and a, uh, a road test show.
• 33:27
  And that's what we did.
• 33:29
  But again, totally friendly with John and Lisa and all that gang.
• 33:31
  And we were friendly competitors in the digital space.
• 33:34
  Yes.
• 33:35
  MotorTrend is part of the Peterson Publishing group, and obviously they're
• 33:39
  home to many other titles, not just car related magazines, but did you
• 33:44
  ever interface with Robert Peterson or any of the folks at At the Top?
• 33:48
  Yes, I did.
• 33:49
  I don't remember the last highest count.
• 33:52
  There was a time when Peterson Publishing Company P p c had what they call vertical
• 33:58
  titles, primarily enthusiast titles along the lines of single sort of visions.
• 34:03
  There was ski magazine and skin diver and shooting and rifle and motorcycle, and
• 34:08
  four wheel and off road for any passion.
• 34:11
  There was probably a Peterson magazine.
• 34:13
  Got to know Robert E.
• 34:15
  Peterson very well late in his life.
• 34:17
  Have nothing but respect for this man.
• 34:19
  He was a brilliant guy.
• 34:20
  He recognized the value of vertical publishing.
• 34:24
  I was pleased to do his last formal sit down interview before
• 34:28
  he passed away and subsequently wrote a book about the Petersons.
• 34:32
  Their empire and their museums and their car collection and the
• 34:35
  publishing company and all of that.
• 34:37
  They were big, epic people, and I don't mean that to say showy.
• 34:41
  Whatever they did, they did in grand fashion and with style.
• 34:46
  Made lots and lots and lots of money, had a a fabulously successful
• 34:50
  business, and then one day sold it for $450 million and sort of retired.
• 34:55
  I missed them both terribly.
• 34:57
  Love them.
• 34:57
  Both immensely and have tremendous respect for both of them too.
• 35:01
  Today.
• 35:02
  Even for our listeners out there who might be interested in becoming
• 35:05
  an automotive writer, where or how, what would you tell them?
• 35:09
  How would you tell them to, again, what's the first step?
• 35:11
  What's the stone that you throw in the pond to become an automotive journalist?
• 35:16
  Would you like that?
• 35:16
  Pun the stone in the pond?
• 35:19
  That would be me.
• 35:20
  Although I'm not swimming at the moment.
• 35:25
  I'm glad, or sorry that our listeners can't see that.
• 35:28
  But anyway, that's a good question, Don.
• 35:30
  I would really have.
• 35:31
  Think about that.
• 35:32
  The media convergence, and by that I mean the advent of, of
• 35:36
  course, tweeter and Flake book, all the streamers and the internet.
• 35:40
  I mean, all that has changed this landscape massively.
• 35:43
  How entities get their editorial, who they have do it, how they pay
• 35:48
  for it, has also changed massively.
• 35:50
  I would say it's first incumbent that you love and understand the topic and
• 35:54
  find your space and learn how to write for goodness sake, every new writer
• 35:59
  thinks they're gonna be Shakespeare.
• 36:01
  Don't worry about your flowery, humorous prose.
• 36:05
  Don't try to be Letterman or Leno or any of that.
• 36:08
  Learn how to write good, clear, solid, researched,
• 36:12
  documented, well reported copy.
• 36:14
  Go to a driving school and learn what a car does, when it's going sideways or
• 36:18
  not, or why it doesn't or why it does.
• 36:20
  I always kind of beat up Eric A.
• 36:22
  Little bit now and then, because one little thorn in my side in recent
• 36:26
  years is today everybody's media.
• 36:28
  I really hate that I do because it's a real privilege to be able to tell a story
• 36:33
  whether you're doing a biography on some political figure or some car figure,
• 36:38
  the fact that it's on your shoulders to put this out is a major, major honor.
• 36:45
  I think as easy it's become through technology for anybody to become media.
• 36:50
  They've lost that focus.
• 36:51
  You brought it up, you go to the internet and there's billions of reviews out
• 36:56
  there on any topic, including automotive.
• 36:59
  And some of them are good and most of them are bad.
• 37:01
  So we as consumers, we have to sift through what's good, what makes sense.
• 37:05
  I mean, you know, Matt, a couple of weeks ago I sent it to you.
• 37:08
  It was some magazine that was doing a discussion about the movie Bullet.
• 37:12
  They listed the Mustang as a 67 Mustang.
• 37:15
  Remember that?
• 37:16
  Yes, I do.
• 37:17
  So it's things like that that you just, to me, it, it's worse than nails on
• 37:20
  a chalkboard, but I think that's kind of the new generation that's coming
• 37:24
  about, and it, it's hard or harder, I think, for those shining stars that
• 37:29
  are actually really, really good at automotive writing to stand out because
• 37:34
  there's now so much static on the AirWave.
• 37:36
  There's so many bad writers.
• 37:38
  There's so many people who just wanna get their name out there and, and say they
• 37:41
  wrote an automotive column, whatever.
• 37:43
  I guess that's why I asked, because I, I just wondered if you had
• 37:45
  any insight as to how to become one of those legitimate people.
• 37:48
  How do you get in front of a MotorTrend or a rodent track or a car driver and
• 37:52
  say, Hey, I want to carry the torch.
• 37:54
  How do I do this?
• 37:55
  And I think maybe you hit the nail on the head, become a good writer, and maybe now
• 37:59
  become a good speaker, a good presenter.
• 38:01
  That that makes sense too.
• 38:02
  'cause it's all on camera.
• 38:03
  It's not all but a lot.
• 38:05
  I would also submit that you can't really deliver much analysis or
• 38:11
  conclusive opinion in 140 characters.
• 38:15
  You can say, oh, you know, here's a picture of the so-and-so.
• 38:18
  Isn't it pretty?
• 38:19
  Isn't it cool?
• 38:20
  Isn't it lawful?
• 38:21
  But there's no analysis in a lot of those platforms.
• 38:24
  I agree that everybody could be media, but that's not necessarily journalists.
• 38:29
  True.
• 38:30
  Uh, and there's a distinction there.
• 38:32
  You've authored and photographed, gotta be at least 20 books by now that you've done.
• 38:37
  Who's counting?
• 38:38
  But it's truly 17.
• 38:39
  Okay.
• 38:40
  See I was close.
• 38:41
  I was close.
• 38:42
  I'm wondering if maybe that's a way for people to get into automotive journalists.
• 38:46
  You know, forget about trying to step out in front of.
• 38:49
  The A Class magazine figured about going after whatever B-level outlet
• 38:54
  there might be, but maybe you start your own website or you start your own
• 38:58
  book writing or something like that.
• 39:00
  I wonder if that might be a good way.
• 39:01
  I see where you're going with that, Don.
• 39:03
  And we have had several other new authors on the show that are self-published
• 39:07
  through Amazon and things like that because it is expensive to put out books.
• 39:11
  But I personally am faced with the same challenge I think many people are.
• 39:15
  You have this grand idea for a story that you want to tell, whether it's
• 39:19
  truth fiction or somewhere in between.
• 39:22
  Your computer stares back at you with a blinking cursor and
• 39:25
  it's like, how do I get started?
• 39:27
  Yes.
• 39:27
  I can take all the grammar and English classes that you could take, and
• 39:31
  then the ones that they brought us up through school, you know, write
• 39:33
  your framework, put your outline together, put all your notes down.
• 39:36
  I know what I wanna write, but how do you go from nothing to a book?
• 39:40
  What are some of the shortcuts or some of the techniques or some of the
• 39:44
  strategies that you've learned after writing nearly a dozen and a half books
• 39:48
  that you could bestow upon somebody else to kind of help them move forward
• 39:52
  and not rely on something like chat G p T to help them get off the block?
• 39:56
  No, that's true to me.
• 39:58
  A good book always starts with an outline for the table of contents.
• 40:01
  If you understand your subject and you know what you wanna write, then you
• 40:04
  really need to be able to block that out into a table of contents and chapters.
• 40:09
  That's important.
• 40:10
  And then of course, you're pitching publishers or
• 40:12
  yourself publishing, whichever.
• 40:13
  But to me, to structure that idea, that kernel into.
• 40:19
  An outline or a table of contents that's, that meaningfully tells a story.
• 40:23
  You then you figure out what doors to knock on.
• 40:25
  But I, I believe crystallizing the idea into a, or boiling it down
• 40:30
  into a, an outline on a table of contents, that's a readable story.
• 40:35
  It's probably pretty early on in the process.
• 40:37
  'cause if you just say, you know, Edsel's really the coolest car I ever built,
• 40:41
  and you tell the publisher I wanna write, I think Edsel's are bitching.
• 40:44
  I wanna write about them.
• 40:46
  Okay.
• 40:46
  Tell me.
• 40:47
  Putting it in the form of a tangible story, I think is about step number two.
• 40:52
  And then from there, pitching, publishing venues.
• 40:55
  And there are so many platforms, like you say, whether it's doing
• 40:58
  it on Amazon, self-publishing, or your own website or whatever.
• 41:03
  A lot of paths forward, and fortunately people are still buying print books.
• 41:07
  I have this DeLorean project that we talked about.
• 41:10
  I have another idea or two in development, and I'm hoping that I'll be able to
• 41:14
  continue as long as people are buying books and people, some of 'em still
• 41:18
  like to just read 'em, not on the screen, but hold 'em in their hands.
• 41:21
  We'll see how all of this evolved and I 'cause, and I don't know
• 41:24
  that answer, but as long as there's good stories to tell, I'm hoping
• 41:26
  people wanna read them and buy 'em.
• 41:28
  You hit it right on the head because your Edsel example is perfect.
• 41:31
  I mean, we oftentimes use the edsels, the butt of many jokes.
• 41:34
  It's on our uncool wall.
• 41:36
  It's considered one of the top 10 ugliest cars of all time.
• 41:39
  Beauty is in the I beholder.
• 41:40
  We'll just leave that where it is.
• 41:42
  It's not the Edsel itself, it's the story of its creation.
• 41:46
  Why does it exist in the first place?
• 41:48
  What was the impetus or the catalyst that caused that car to
• 41:52
  become what we all recognize today?
• 41:54
  Good, bad, or indifferent?
• 41:55
  And I think to your point, that's where the story is formed.
• 41:59
  That's where that whole ethos is constructed and what you, I guess,
• 42:02
  need to focus on rather than just say, well, Edsels are bitching.
• 42:06
  I need to write about it.
• 42:07
  Oh no, you're right.
• 42:08
  The genesis and gestation of how it got to be so good.
• 42:11
  So bitching so bad, so ugly, so beautiful, whatever.
• 42:15
  That's the story that people wanna understand.
• 42:18
  Now it may not be on the 17th of May, 1957, the engineering department
• 42:23
  set a a memo to supply saying that that three quarter inch grommet and
• 42:28
  washer needs to become seven, eight.
• 42:30
  Nobody caress, right?
• 42:31
  But yeah, how we got to the beginning, the middle, and the end of the
• 42:35
  SEL story is part of that story.
• 42:37
  And I believe it's following the yellow brick road of so many of
• 42:40
  these cars and the people behind them and the places you alluded to it.
• 42:44
  It's the underlying point that there is a difference between the
• 42:47
  journalism side of the storytelling and the long format storytelling.
• 42:52
  In journalism, you're finding that angle, that one specific thought, you
• 42:57
  wanna pull that thread and express it.
• 42:59
  But in a book format, you're taking the reader on a journey.
• 43:03
  You're showing them from beginning to middle to end, what the Edsel story
• 43:07
  is, rather than the hyper-focusing.
• 43:08
  Let's say on why that seven eighths grommet was a seven eighth grommet
• 43:12
  versus five sixteenths, right?
• 43:13
  Because you could just hyperfocus on just that.
• 43:16
  Well, you could, but I'm not sure that that calls journalism
• 43:20
  distinguished from the storytelling.
• 43:22
  I think you can tell a long form story.
• 43:24
  Very journalistically, hopefully interesting and entertainingly, but it
• 43:28
  really needs to be journalistically, and that means backed up with good factual
• 43:32
  research, interviews, blah, blah, blah.
• 43:34
  That to me is the journalistic angle.
• 43:36
  It's not necessarily just a news bite or a piece or expanding on a piece.
• 43:41
  The journalism is the approach and the method and the attitude
• 43:45
  towards storytelling, whether it's a long story or a short one.
• 43:48
  One of the outlets that's often overlooked, and I've talked to Don about
• 43:51
  this and I'm a member myself, is the Society of Automotive Historians, right?
• 43:56
  There's lots of extremely knowledgeable people there that have done the
• 44:00
  research, are willing to share their findings and work with you.
• 44:03
  If you are looking to write a book or you have an idea for, you know, Edsels
• 44:06
  orbiting, and you wanna know from people that have done the legwork and
• 44:10
  rub elbows with them, that's a great place to look over on auto history.org.
• 44:14
  And there's other resources just like the s a h out there.
• 44:17
  So I can't recommend that enough to people that are interested in taking those early
• 44:21
  steps and maybe develop a longer story.
• 44:23
  When I first started on my mission, everybody overuses the word journey
• 44:28
  now, but when I decided, okay, I'm gonna do this better than
• 44:32
  that other Crap magazine did it.
• 44:33
  I knew a couple of guys in the business.
• 44:35
  One of 'em had written a story about one of my cars and another
• 44:38
  one I knew from another connection.
• 44:40
  I went down and met with 'em, bought a couple of lunches, and picked their
• 44:43
  brains, and they gave me a lot of lessons about what to do and what not to do.
• 44:47
  The quickest way to lose a freelance gig is to miss your deadline.
• 44:52
  You know why they call it a deadline?
• 44:53
  'cause if you miss the line, You're dead.
• 44:57
  And I mean, these guys drill that stuff into my head and they told
• 45:00
  me things to do and not to do.
• 45:02
  And some of them I did anyway and it turned out okay and sometimes
• 45:06
  I ped their advice and stayed away from that and did what they told me.
• 45:09
  Water seeks its own path or level, as they say about idiots and water.
• 45:14
  But yeah, if you can somehow connect with writers and be that chat rooms,
• 45:19
  writers, conferences, classes at the community college, but connect and
• 45:23
  avail yourself to successful writers.
• 45:26
  And more often than not, unless you're interviewing for their
• 45:30
  job, they're willing to help you.
• 45:32
  They've swam that river.
• 45:33
  I swam it, and when somebody asks me for help, I mean to me it's
• 45:36
  just paying it forward or backward, whatever, because guys, help me.
• 45:40
  That goes back a little bit to the point that you made before, Don.
• 45:43
  You know, what do you recommend?
• 45:45
  Find good people who have done it successfully and engage
• 45:48
  with them and you'll learn.
• 45:50
  Find the right people.
• 45:51
  Ask them the right way in a non-threatening manner, and
• 45:54
  they will, they'll help you.
• 45:55
  I mean, I have gone up to deans, literally, of our business
• 45:59
  and ask for help and of course they help me very unselfishly.
• 46:02
  I thank those guys Unendingly for making the time to help this.
• 46:08
  Rookie.
• 46:09
  I think that's a big part of it.
• 46:10
  Who do you surround yourself with?
• 46:11
  Who are the guys in your army who you can turn to and work on this stuff?
• 46:15
  And to dovetail off of what Don said earlier about everybody's media,
• 46:19
  my expectation these days is that I get to experience events that I may
• 46:25
  or may not be able to get to or be able to afford to get to vicariously
• 46:30
  through all the eyes on these cameras.
• 46:32
  For instance, I wasn't able to make it to Amelia this year, but I can
• 46:35
  go on YouTube and probably pull down a thousand different videos.
• 46:39
  Of one car, as an example from Amelia, from different angles, different
• 46:44
  perspectives, some with commentary, some without, and so that's sort
• 46:47
  of nice to be able to have that.
• 46:49
  Now it's a bit much because it is coming from so many independent
• 46:53
  people at the same time.
• 46:55
  It makes me wonder, our shows are still a very big thing.
• 46:58
  They're part of car culture.
• 46:59
  They're part of what we talked about at the beginning, especially
• 47:01
  growing up in California.
• 47:02
  Where are you going to meet up with your friends and show off
• 47:05
  your car Now, obviously the big ones, Amelia Pebble and so on.
• 47:08
  This infiltration of let's say amateur media in these events, does
• 47:12
  it take away from those events?
• 47:14
  Does it take away from the experience?
• 47:16
  Does it heighten it?
• 47:17
  And I ask this because I know that you've been a concourse judge before.
• 47:21
  Do you still go to cards and coffee?
• 47:22
  Do you go to concourse?
• 47:23
  Do you do things like that?
• 47:24
  I know you used to work for Fox Sports.
• 47:26
  I do all of that primarily as an enthusiast, but also depend
• 47:30
  sometimes to cover by expanding the audience and sharing the
• 47:34
  message to people that ordinarily wouldn't know or couldn't be there.
• 47:38
  Now you wanna hope at some point that some of that content is good, well produced.
• 47:43
  I mean, I, I will say that, you know, every once in a while you're
• 47:47
  trying to enjoy a walk through the show with some friends and there's
• 47:50
  a drone five feet above your head.
• 47:53
  Not crazy about that, but as long as it can be done relatively unobtrusively
• 47:58
  and professionally, I see that as a plus welcoming more people into that tent.
• 48:03
  And that to me is very important in terms of the auto sphere.
• 48:08
  We must congregate, not segregate.
• 48:11
  Agreed.
• 48:12
  And I agree.
• 48:12
  If you know the ticket to Pebble Beach, you buy, the day of
• 48:15
  the show is about 500 bucks.
• 48:17
  Not everybody can afford that.
• 48:19
  Therefore, there are lots and lots and lots and lots of dozens of hundreds of
• 48:22
  people that won't go because of that.
• 48:24
  If they can watch the show on a streamer and some YouTubes, and again,
• 48:29
  that material is gathered carefully, presented well, I think it's a plus.
• 48:34
  I'm all for it.
• 48:35
  The concourse scene is a little different.
• 48:36
  I have had the privilege of riding the coattails of several concourses judges
• 48:41
  at some of the national Porsche parades, and I know what those are like, but
• 48:44
  I've never been to one of the bigger events and seeing how it all plays out.
• 48:49
  And you having been a chief class judge at Pebble and things like that, what are you
• 48:53
  looking at when you're judging these cars?
• 48:54
  How does that whole system work?
• 48:56
  That sort of varies from show to show, but generally the
• 49:00
  big game top flight concourse.
• 49:01
  The judging is some parts art and some parts science.
• 49:05
  And it is generally the apex of where originality meets authenticity style.
• 49:11
  After all, it's a beauty contest, often with elegance and
• 49:14
  sometimes provenance mixed in.
• 49:17
  If that car was the one of one built custom body start at the 1938 Paris Sale
• 49:22
  on Auto Show, that's worth talking about.
• 49:25
  We learn something about this car story, it's history, who owned
• 49:28
  it, who designed it, who built it.
• 49:30
  I mean, those are the things when I cover concourse in print
• 49:33
  or on video that I talk about.
• 49:35
  So to me that's important.
• 49:37
  The living history of that car, those four or five things combine
• 49:41
  to let the cream rise to the top.
• 49:43
  And for anybody that wants to know, I will just tell you
• 49:46
  right now, we judge cars not.
• 49:48
  Owners and in my 27 years as a Pebble Beach judge, nobody has ever been
• 49:55
  written down or de pointed for somebody seeing grease in a zerk, fitting a
• 50:00
  little bluing on the chrome of a header or blades of grass and tire treads
• 50:05
  because those are evidence of the car being used, enjoyed and maintained.
• 50:10
  Those are not points off.
• 50:11
  Would you say points do get deducted for an owner who say, doesn't know
• 50:15
  how to interact with his or her car?
• 50:17
  You know, I heard a story about a Packard, I think it was years
• 50:20
  ago, and it was at Pebble Beach.
• 50:22
  The clock wasn't running.
• 50:23
  The judge asked, does the clock work?
• 50:25
  Well, of course the clock works well.
• 50:26
  Can you make it work and show us?
• 50:28
  Well, I gotta call the restorer.
• 50:29
  So the restorer is off getting a cup of coffee.
• 50:31
  So he calls 'em on a cell phone and says, you know, why isn't the clock working?
• 50:34
  It supposed to be working?
• 50:35
  And he says, well, did you wind it?
• 50:37
  Well, no I didn't.
• 50:39
  How do you wind it?
• 50:40
  So the legend is that this Packard or Dusenberg, whatever the car
• 50:44
  was owner, that point's deducted simply because he did not know how
• 50:48
  to wind his clock and make it work.
• 50:51
  Are things like that?
• 50:52
  True?
• 50:52
  I strongly doubt that.
• 50:55
  Okay.
• 50:55
  So that's an urban legend.
• 50:56
  Yeah.
• 50:57
  There's another name for it too.
• 50:59
  And it starts with a B ends in shi.
• 51:01
  Yes.
• 51:01
  And yes indeed.
• 51:02
  It is written in our judge's manual that during the operation check a
• 51:07
  light doesn't work, a gauge is dead.
• 51:09
  The clock, whatever it was that the owner has, the time it takes.
• 51:13
  To judge the next car to fix it.
• 51:16
  Okay.
• 51:16
  So we'll say, all right, we're gonna hold the tachometer that turn signal
• 51:20
  and the clock out is outstanding items.
• 51:23
  We're gonna go judge that Fuji Minu GT parked next to
• 51:26
  you, and we'll be right back.
• 51:27
  That gives him 10, 12, 15 minutes, whatever, to sort that stuff out.
• 51:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 51:32
  And if we come back and the clock works and the tack works and the
• 51:35
  light goes on, no harm, no foul.
• 51:37
  Some of these cars are not easy to manage, and if he needs to make a phone
• 51:41
  call or get somebody to come down and wind the clock or whatever, he has the
• 51:45
  time it takes to judge the next car.
• 51:47
  Nobody, I can certainly say at Pebble Beach suffers for that
• 51:51
  type of oversight if they can't get it to work in 20 minutes.
• 51:54
  Sorry, we're rolling.
• 51:56
  But no, anything that's under the category of Cheap Shot does not happen.
• 52:00
  Not on any of my teams.
• 52:01
  That's for sure.
• 52:02
  We've all been there, concourses, et cetera.
• 52:04
  Are all a little more biased towards some participants than others.
• 52:09
  What are the responsibilities of judging?
• 52:11
  In other words, what does that manual say?
• 52:13
  Who wrote the manual?
• 52:14
  Where do we get the guidelines to create a professional concor event?
• 52:20
  What is it that sets Concord judging as the best and the worst?
• 52:24
  Why is it that Pebble Beach, Este, Amelia, et cetera, are considered,
• 52:30
  that's where you want your card judged.
• 52:32
  Even if you don't win a trophy, you got judged at those events.
• 52:36
  Why is that such a big deal compared to the Concord down the street?
• 52:40
  Fair question.
• 52:41
  Those things have developed over time and been kind of codified as years have
• 52:47
  gone by and people have learned more and more about restoration, preservation,
• 52:51
  authenticity, originality, et cetera, and by getting knowledgeable judges
• 52:55
  that understand all this, you're only as good as the guys and gals in
• 52:58
  the blue jackets and the Bay Slacks.
• 53:01
  The neighborhood hot rod show sometimes is, it's a pretty car contest, and that's
• 53:05
  okay because at that level it's fine.
• 53:06
  But when you're talking pointy, end of the stick, internationally,
• 53:11
  significant concourse, it's those things I was talking about.
• 53:14
  It's knowledgeable judges who understand the authenticity,
• 53:18
  originality, and provenance of those types of cars in your class.
• 53:23
  And those judges are selected very carefully to match them with
• 53:26
  their knowledge base of expertise.
• 53:28
  And again, this is something that's been developed now.
• 53:31
  Pebble Beach has been around for 70 years.
• 53:33
  It's taken years to kind of develop those standards and those paradigms.
• 53:37
  It's happened by people who care and who paid attention, made the effort
• 53:42
  to codify these standards in writing, and by getting people that understand
• 53:46
  them and know how to apply them, let's just visually go to a Concor big shot.
• 53:51
  Concor.
• 53:51
  Could be Pebble, could be Amelia, whatever.
• 53:53
  The guy who had the clock problem, he obviously knew something about Packard.
• 53:58
  He was obviously passionate about Packard.
• 54:00
  That's why he bought it.
• 54:00
  That's why he restored it.
• 54:02
  So he probably knows stuff about this.
• 54:04
  There have to be moments where owners and judges.
• 54:08
  Crash.
• 54:09
  Biggest upset you can think of.
• 54:10
  It does happen, but not often.
• 54:13
  What you're hoping is that the owner and the car are prepared and they bring
• 54:17
  documentation for whatever they feel, why their car's presented the way it is,
• 54:22
  why it has the heads painted gold and the valve covers are chromed or whatever.
• 54:27
  And they usually have a book about the size of seven Bibles full of the letters
• 54:31
  and photos from the 38 parish salon and build sheets and photos from restoration.
• 54:37
  And you know, it's really nice when they show up with that.
• 54:39
  And then the judges of course have to display some judgment and field
• 54:44
  manner to know how to inquire.
• 54:46
  This one has tripped up a lot of people.
• 54:48
  Some cars, the rear view mirror is mounted at the top on the windshield header
• 54:53
  and others it's mounted atop the dash.
• 54:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 54:56
  Judge who walks up and says, you know, that's wrong, that mirror
• 54:59
  should be on the windshield header.
• 55:00
  It doesn't belong on the dash.
• 55:01
  Really?
• 55:02
  How do you know that the way to handle that is sir or miss or whoever?
• 55:06
  We have a question about the placement of the mirror.
• 55:09
  Do you have any documentation saying as to why it's mounted here or mounted there?
• 55:13
  Well, sometimes it's simple of, these cars only came with one style of mirror.
• 55:17
  It only had one mount and it only mounts there.
• 55:19
  Or here's the brochure when the car was new and there's the mirror.
• 55:23
  Either place, whatever.
• 55:24
  If you ask nicely, they'll produce the documentation and those situations
• 55:28
  most often diffuse themselves.
• 55:30
  More importantly, we all love a good underdog story.
• 55:33
  So obviously if Ralph Lorenz Bugatti Atlan shows up freshly buffed by Chuck
• 55:39
  Bennett over at Zamal, as you know, we've heard the stories in the past.
• 55:42
  Is there an opportunity for somebody with maybe what we would
• 55:45
  consider a lesser car to beat out?
• 55:48
  Something like that?
• 55:48
  Does that happen often?
• 55:50
  Have you seen some of those types of upsets on the Concord field?
• 55:53
  Oh, yes, and it's fun.
• 55:55
  When it happens.
• 55:56
  You find that you just get this surprise and delight factor.
• 56:00
  Like, you know that card, when I first read the documentation,
• 56:03
  I didn't think much about it.
• 56:05
  But now that I see it, Wow.
• 56:07
  And you find out the story and the history and it's a one-off, and
• 56:11
  it was owned by Elvis Madonna and Taylor Swift or you know, whatever.
• 56:16
  But yeah, sometimes that's true.
• 56:17
  I mean, some of those really, really big, big game pointy into the stick cars owned
• 56:23
  by those collectors who have miles and miles and tons of taste and miles and
• 56:28
  miles and tons of money to execute it.
• 56:31
  Sometimes that stuff is hard to beat, but I have seen it by more modest cars
• 56:36
  that were just more authentic, more beautifully preserved, less over restored.
• 56:41
  Just a better story.
• 56:43
  They can carry the day and it, it's a blast when it happens.
• 56:47
  I think Jay Len opened it really well.
• 56:48
  Pickle Beach where a millionaire can beat a billionaire.
• 56:51
  Yeah.
• 56:52
  What was the coolest or most bitching car you ever judged, Matt?
• 56:56
  What was the car that you got to judge it and you were like, holy
• 57:00
  shit, I get to judge this thing.
• 57:02
  I have had that experience many times.
• 57:05
  It was an Edsel he told you already, right?
• 57:07
  Yeah.
• 57:07
  So I'll ask you one of our more favorite pit stop questions, which is,
• 57:12
  what is the sexiest car of all time?
• 57:14
  Well, I can only preface that by saying for me, Because
• 57:18
  everybody will have their opinion.
• 57:21
  I would say the ones that kind of come to mind would be the Shelby Cobra Daytona
• 57:28
  coup, the 365 gtb, four Daytona, and an early sixties jaar type, all pinging
• 57:36
  the sex meter pretty hard for me, and I'll have a very similar shape to them.
• 57:41
  Long hood cars.
• 57:43
  I see a bit of a trend there.
• 57:44
  I'm not saying nothing, but maybe, so the antithesis to
• 57:49
  that question, the ugliest car.
• 57:51
  Mm.
• 57:53
  Well, could that be, uh, a Yugo or a Treant or an Edsl or a Hmm.
• 58:00
  I try to always find the positive in things.
• 58:03
  Maybe a citro and AMI six.
• 58:06
  Oh, nice pole.
• 58:08
  Very nice.
• 58:09
  Look at the AMI six.
• 58:10
  The front of that car is like a, an old woman sucking on a lemon, you know?
• 58:17
  And, and I suppose it's one of those cars like some other French cars, but not all.
• 58:22
  I don't discriminate.
• 58:23
  It's one of those cars that's so ugly.
• 58:25
  It's cute if you say so.
• 58:28
  I am hoping everybody's out there googling up an image of a Citron AMI six right now.
• 58:34
  And then you'll see what I'm talking about.
• 58:36
  Go ahead.
• 58:37
  It's okay.
• 58:37
  'cause it exists on our uncool wall so our listeners can go out and vote
• 58:41
  on how ugly it is compared to about 60 other cars that are on that list.
• 58:45
  So was there an owner that you remember, maybe the person was
• 58:49
  famous, was there an owner that stands out to you as one of the best?
• 58:53
  Uh, yeah, I'll give you one quick one.
• 58:54
  I was judging a show in the Netherlands in.
• 58:58
  In the south of the Netherlands.
• 59:00
  It was a, a very, very early und, aluminum bodied Porsche split windshield
• 59:06
  and single exhaust, I mean a very, very, very, very basic early Porsche
• 59:12
  with the hand hammered aluminum body.
• 59:14
  And this car was owned and restored by a father and son.
• 59:17
  Son was, you know, 60, father was 85.
• 59:22
  And father presented the car to us and demonstrated it, fired the engine, did
• 59:27
  all the lights, did the turn signals, the traffickers, rev the thing up,
• 59:31
  look at the gauges, blah, blah, blah.
• 59:32
  This little old German guy who didn't walk real well, but he got in his
• 59:37
  car, he opened up all the doors in the front and the back, and he presented
• 59:41
  that car to the judges perfectly.
• 59:44
  He knew that car inside and out.
• 59:46
  You know why?
• 59:46
  'cause he and his son restored it together in their own shop.
• 59:50
  Yeah, that guy sticks out to me, father and son duo.
• 59:52
  They were marvelous.
• 59:53
  And when they were, we were done.
• 59:55
  We asked our questions and they had.
• 59:57
  Relevant, smart, but brief answers.
• 59:59
  And then when we were done, they came around and shook
• 1:00:01
  everybody's hand and thanked us.
• 1:00:03
  They stick out in my mind.
• 1:00:05
  Every once in a while you have an owner and you walk away and
• 1:00:08
  you think, God, what a tool.
• 1:00:09
  It happens, but we don't judge people.
• 1:00:13
  We judge cars and just 'cause some guys got an ego and is maybe
• 1:00:16
  an idiot or whatever, we're not gonna penalize the car for that.
• 1:00:19
  But you do notice it and we laugh about it a little bit and then walk
• 1:00:23
  on to the next one and it's over.
• 1:00:24
  I did judge one of Ralph Loren's cars one time, and Ralph was the epitome of
• 1:00:29
  gracious, as you might expect, and I believe his restorer demonstrated the car.
• 1:00:35
  But Ralph stood right with us and answered our question.
• 1:00:38
  He knew that car, not with a manual in front of him.
• 1:00:41
  He knew that car and he was a lovely gentleman at the other end of the stick.
• 1:00:46
  That's one that stands out to me too.
• 1:00:47
  What a fine guy.
• 1:00:48
  Magnificent collector and collection with fabulous taste in terms of class
• 1:00:54
  and elegance and colors and presentation.
• 1:00:56
  As you can imagine, there's a guy that you know, you would've
• 1:00:58
  thought he could've come off as a real idiot, not Ralph Lauren.
• 1:01:02
  Could not have been nicer and more gracious.
• 1:01:04
  As we wrap up our segment here, I have to ask what's next for Matt Stone.
• 1:01:09
  You mentioned you're working on a new DeLorean book and you got
• 1:01:11
  a couple others in the hopper.
• 1:01:13
  What else is going on?
• 1:01:14
  What else are you working on?
• 1:01:15
  Same old, same old.
• 1:01:16
  I'm gonna keep going as long as I can.
• 1:01:18
  The magazine business has changed tremendously.
• 1:01:21
  As y'all know, there's less magazines and, and a lot of them that I work
• 1:01:24
  for now are published overseas.
• 1:01:26
  England for some reason, great Britain knows how to publish and sell and
• 1:01:30
  make business out of plastic carbon.
• 1:01:32
  They're tall, trim, size paper you can't even see through the Britts do that
• 1:01:36
  really well and I have other clients around Europe and some in this country
• 1:01:40
  still, you know, I will slow down a little bit as I age out in time out, but there
• 1:01:46
  ain't no retirement date on my forehead.
• 1:01:48
  I wanna keep doing stuff that excites me and hopefully excites other
• 1:01:53
  people where I'm learning new stuff.
• 1:01:55
  Or meeting more of my heroes or driving or experiencing the cars
• 1:01:59
  that I hadn't made it to yet.
• 1:02:01
  I do have a couple of biographies that I want to do.
• 1:02:04
  I'm not gonna name any names, but there are some people out there that
• 1:02:07
  have never done their biographies and I want to do a couple of them.
• 1:02:10
  That's where I'd really like to go, but I'm gonna keep doing
• 1:02:14
  car stuff as long as I can.
• 1:02:16
  I am a car fool, just like all the rest of y'all out there.
• 1:02:20
  And Don can testify to that.
• 1:02:22
  I'm gonna do it as long as I want to and can.
• 1:02:25
  Well with that, Matt, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you'd like
• 1:02:28
  to share that we haven't covered thus far?
• 1:02:31
  Uh, please visit my website if you like.
• 1:02:33
  Matt stone cars.com.
• 1:02:35
  You can't spend any of your money there.
• 1:02:37
  There's no place to charge it.
• 1:02:38
  It's my new favorite website then.
• 1:02:40
  Oh, thank you.
• 1:02:40
  Yeah, you can read stories, you can see what I've been doing.
• 1:02:43
  You can see photos, you can learn about some of the books I've
• 1:02:45
  done, interesting stories, fun stuff, weird stuff, et cetera.
• 1:02:49
  Matt stone cars.com please visit.
• 1:02:51
  And the only other thought I.
• 1:02:55
  You make every day count because if not, you just one away.
• 1:03:00
  Matt Stone.
• 1:03:01
  You're right about Stone has in all manner.
• 1:03:07
  In recent years, he's published some of the most prolific
• 1:03:10
  automotive books covering some of the most interesting personalities
• 1:03:14
  and vehicles in the industry.
• 1:03:16
  To learn more about Matt, be sure to check out his website
• 1:03:19
  and blog over@mattstonecars.com or follow him on social at.
• 1:03:25
  Matt Stoner Ramma on Instagram and be sure to catch some of his articles
• 1:03:29
  on Garage Style Magazine too.
• 1:03:31
  Yep.
• 1:03:32
  Well, Matt, I can't thank you enough for coming on Break Fixx
• 1:03:35
  and sharing your stories with us.
• 1:03:37
  I wanna borrow something you said earlier, originality, authenticity, personality.
• 1:03:42
  One of one I think that describes you, Matt Stone in the car landscape, in
• 1:03:48
  the auto sphere, as you called it.
• 1:03:50
  Many of us look up to you as a hero, whether you realize that or not.
• 1:03:53
  I know you're an inspiration for all of us writers and
• 1:03:56
  aspiring journalists out there.
• 1:03:58
  So like you said, you have no expiration date on your mind,
• 1:04:02
  so keep doing what you're doing.
• 1:04:03
  'cause the rest of us are following in your footsteps until nobody
• 1:04:07
  cares or somebody says, stop.
• 1:04:09
  That's the plan.
• 1:04:10
  Thank you boys.
• 1:04:10
  This was great fun, and to all of you out there listening
• 1:04:13
  and bored for the last hour.
• 1:04:14
  Thank you and I apologize.
• 1:04:16
  Thanks, Matt.
• 1:04:21
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about gtm, be sure to
• 1:04:24
  check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.
• 1:04:28
  You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports.
• 1:04:32
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
• 1:04:36
  or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at Crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.
• 1:04:44
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:04:46
  Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:04:48
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 1:04:52
  to remind you that G T M remains a no annual FEES organization, and our goal
• 1:04:57
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• 1:05:02
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• 1:05:29
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• 1:05:34
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