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Getting Sober at 21 - 12 Years Clean, Trauma, Suicide & Rebuilding Life After Addiction · Recovering Out Loud

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0:40
I'm so glad you're here. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a
1:00
good week, I would say. I think like my higher power,
1:03
God, whatever you want to call it, throws people.
1:07
Like if I got anything from that conference, from that
1:10
experience, it was service. I don't know if you like a lot
1:13
of people were talking about service and sticking with new
1:16
people and stuff like that. So it's funny how I come back
1:18
and all these new people start showing up in my life in my text
1:22
messages. And so I think that that's, you
1:24
know, I'm still new myself too, right?
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But that's a sign, I think that, you know, I'm supposed to be
1:29
doing that. I'm supposed to be hanging out
1:30
with people, the new job I got at the at the rehab, I'm
1:34
constantly talking to new people on the phone and parents and
1:37
stuff like that. So that's been, you know, really
1:39
good. I'm getting reminded of how good
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my life is, you know? So, yeah, Bridget, thanks so
1:47
much for coming down. I appreciate it.
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I want to tell a little bit of the story about how we met
1:50
because I think it's important and the universe has plans for
1:54
me. I think, yeah, I don't think
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it's a coincidence that I was at the airport coming back from
1:59
Vancouver and I need to charge my phone or my laptop or
2:03
something. And I went and sat in the one
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seat where the charger was, and you were sitting right there.
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And then I had run into a friend of mine who came up to me and
2:13
started yelling that we were in recovery together, which I think
2:16
there was a time in my life where I can't cross my legs.
2:19
That's not happening. There was a time in my life
2:21
where I think that really would have bothered me is somebody
2:24
like outing my anonymity. But today I really don't care.
2:27
Obviously, as you can see, I really don't care because look
2:32
what happened. You know, usually good things
2:33
happen out of that and usually people don't come up and, you
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know, oh, this guy's in recovery.
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Like we're going to make fun of him or put him in the newspaper,
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like I think is going to happen. So I sit beside you and you look
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at me. Are you in recovery?
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Yeah, You know, me too. And yeah.
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What are the chances of that? Right.
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You're from Toronto. And then it ends up that our,
2:50
our seats are like right behind each other on the plane.
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So it was a cool experience of how we met.
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And I thought, you know what, I, I got to have her on the
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podcast, 'cause you've been sober quite a while now.
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Yeah. 12 years. 12 years. Amazing.
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So, yeah, that's that half year's important.
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Yeah, I agree. I'm not being sarcastic.
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I, I like, I really every time I say I relapsed, like, I was
3:11
like, I had 7 1/2 years, not 7, you know, 7 1/2.
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That was a long, hard half year because I don't know, for people
3:17
like us, maybe you can relate. Like, I couldn't even imagine
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getting a few minutes together at one point in my life.
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So that half year is a miracle. The day is a miracle, right.
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So thanks so much for coming. Why don't you tell us a little
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bit about your story, how you came into recovery, and what
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your life is like today? Thank you so much for having me.
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Yeah, I do think that it was a little bit divine, us meeting in
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the lounge before we got on the plane and then sitting right
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next to each other. And that's kind of like one of
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the wonderful things I think about recovery and sobriety is
3:49
the way that it connects me to people and the community that I
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find almost everybody, almost every single one of my friends
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is also sober. And I love them all so much.
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And like, I'm so grateful for that.
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And actually, so the person who got me sober was my best friend
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from high school. I, I think I always like to
4:13
party. Like I always like to have fun.
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It was the first thing that really made me feel a part of
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the world. You know, I was a nerdy, weird
4:23
kind of kid and I was seeking escape before I ever found drugs
4:30
or alcohol. I often say that the first thing
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I found was books. I would read obsessively.
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I would read for hours. I would read till dawn.
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And it was the one way that when I was 11, I could get out of how
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I was feeling because the way I was feeling was not good.
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I remember the first time that I wanted to kill myself.
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I was like 11 years old. And so when I got to high school
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and I made friends and I, I started partying, it was like my
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life opened up. And I really feel like at that
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time it, it saved my life, you know, before drinking ruined my
5:09
life. It got me through when I really
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didn't have anything else and it was fun.
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I think that that's one thing that I, I like to remind myself
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of like I can be stupid, but I am not stupid.
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And I, I drank because it did something for me.
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Like it helped me. I needed it, you know, and then
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I of course took it way too far and it became a problem and I
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couldn't stop and like all of that stuff.
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But before it hurt me, it really helped me.
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And so I, I just like, I like to party, I like to have a good
5:46
time. I like to go out, I like to
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dance, I like to laugh, I like to go woo.
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I like to take shots. Like I liked all of that stuff.
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And it didn't feel like a problem for a long time in large
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part because all of the people around me were worse.
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They were overdosing, they were getting kicked out of school,
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they were getting suspended. They were having the cops called
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on them. They were having like, bad stuff
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happening and I was doing OK, you know, But they all kind of
6:20
fell away, right? And I think that I was just left
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as the drunk girl at the party, you know, and what had be
6:28
started as something that made me feel connected to the world.
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All of a sudden it like it became the only thing that
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mattered, right? Like I was going out and I was
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drinking and I was around people, but I was not engaging
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with the conversation. I was not present.
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The only thing I was thinking about was like how how many
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drinks I had had? How drunk was I how many more
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until I got to where I needed to go holding up the bottle and
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like doing the math, how many shots do I have left?
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And this constant math of how fucked up can I get right?
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And what happened was of my best friend from high school, she, I
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had kind of made peace with the fact that she was going to die.
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She had gone into some very hard drugs.
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And it had been like, I was 21 at the time.
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And it had been a few years since I'd really seen her, like
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laugh or smile or be present. You know, she was kind of like a
7:22
zombie. And we had, we had lost a friend
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before to an overdose. And so the reality of her death
7:30
felt very present. And I had had some, I had had
7:37
some bad nights. I had worried for a long time
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about my relationship to alcohol and whether I had a drinking
7:44
problem. And was the way that I drank
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normal and all of this stuff. It was something I thought about
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a lot. And I I made myself a promise
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that I was not going to drink for a year.
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And a little after I made this promise to myself, this friend
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calls me and I, I remember this conversation so clearly.
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I remember she laughed. And it, it was, I had not spoken
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to this person in years. The person on the phone, I had
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spoke to my friend, but I had not spoken to the person on the
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phone in years, Right? And she was sober.
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She was like 2 months sober and we made a plan to go out of town
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and visit a friend together and she was going to meetings every
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day. And we went out the first night
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we got there and we we went to a bar with this friend and we were
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all hanging out and it was so uncomfortable.
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It was so uncomfortable. I felt like my skin was too, too
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tight and I couldn't think and I couldn't be present and I
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couldn't talk and I couldn't, I wasn't, I just wasn't there,
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right? And like, that's why I drank
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because when I had a drink, all of those feelings fell away and
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I was able to be present and I was able to be funny and I was
9:09
able to be real and I was able to be myself, right, 'cause when
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I was sober, there was none of that.
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There was none of that. And I remember going to the
9:18
bathroom and, and staring at myself in the mirror and
9:21
thinking, you can just have one, It's not a big deal, it'll be
9:24
fine. But I didn't end up having that
9:27
drink 'cause I didn't want to drink in front of my newly sober
9:30
friend, Right, Right. Yeah.
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And so the next morning, she's, she's going to a meeting every
9:36
day. And I tag along for for moral
9:37
support, you know, and. I don't have a problem.
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I'm helping my friend, I'm helping my friend with the
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problem. I'm just here for support.
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I'm just here for support, you know, I really want to support
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her on her journey, right? And they played this tape and
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they said that you're an alcoholic if you can't stop once
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you start, which I had known forever.
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I had known since the moment I started drinking that once I
10:02
started, all bets were off. I did so many things to control
10:06
how I drank. I I would only bring out a
10:09
certain amount of money. I would only buy a certain
10:11
amount of alcohol. I would, I remember drinking
10:15
shots of olive oil before I drank to make the liquor like
10:19
absorb slower. I remember having steak every
10:23
time I drank so that it would I would have something in this my
10:27
stomach so I wouldn't get so drunk.
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I would avoid certain liquors, like all of the stuff, all of
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the stuff control it. And so when they said that I was
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like, well, yeah, like I I knew that.
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And then they said the other piece, though, is like, that
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would be fine. That would be fine if I didn't
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start drinking. But I always started drinking,
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right? I always started drinking
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thinking this time it'll be different.
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And they said that the second piece is that you can't stay
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stopped. And in that moment, I understood
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what had happened the night before when I was having that
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conversation in the mirror. And I burst into tears.
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And I thought my life was over. I really thought my life was
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over. I was 21 and I had never had a
11:07
good time without alcohol in my system, right?
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Like it was the centerpiece of my life.
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It was my best friend. It was, I didn't know that you
11:19
could have fun without it. And being 21, I would.
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There was not a lot of people around who did have fun without
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it. And I remember my friend said,
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I'm so happy for you. And I said, what are you talking
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about? This is the worst day of my
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life. Like my life is over, right?
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But she was right. She was right 'cause I came home
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and I didn't get sober right away.
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I had a few times where I thought maybe I can control it
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and I would, you know, have two drinks and I would hold on tight
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and I would go to bed and I would think an alcoholic.
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But inevitably, when I drank the way I wanted to drink, the the
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same thing would happen. And it wasn't until I really got
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serious and joined a fellowship and did some work and did a set
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of steps that everything started to change.
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For me. Because it was so young,
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identifying as an alcoholic was a little bit tricky, but I went
12:30
crazy When I stopped drinking. I was emotionally like so all
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over the place. I was crying one minute and then
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laughing the next. I was so anxious and
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uncomfortable. There were days that just felt
12:43
like hell on earth. And I remember thinking, this is
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not a normal reaction to not drinking anymore.
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This is not a normal reaction to not having alcohol in my system.
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And so I was able to identify by what sobriety felt like, by what
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being dry felt like, and how abnormal that that reaction was,
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you know, because what I realized is how much I needed
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alcohol to fix whatever was going on with me.
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Sorry, so you identified with other people or with the fact
13:16
that maybe I'm an alcoholic because I this is like, I'm so
13:21
in, I don't know, combat with myself when.
13:25
I'm super the latter, right? Like I think that if I wasn't an
13:29
alcoholic then easy peasy, I would stop drinking and the
13:33
problems would go away. I would feel better, right
13:36
'cause I would remove the problem and then everything
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would be good. And in fact what happened is I
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removed the problem and everything got worse because I
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no longer had a way to fix how I felt.
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A. Solution.
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I no longer had a solution, right?
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And so, you know, I haven't in sobriety, like I, I haven't
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always had done the things that I was supposed to do.
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I, and to this day, I can still remind myself that I'm an
14:06
alcoholic and I need to work on that because of how it feels
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when I don't work on it, because of how irritable I get, because
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of how uncomfortable I get, because of how crazy I get.
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And like, if I ever have a moment when I think it's been 12
14:23
1/2 years, I'm a very different person than I was when I stopped
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drinking, right? Which is true.
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Yeah. I can think about what it feels
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like when I, when I don't do the work recovery.
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Yeah, when I don't do recovery. And that is not how a non
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alcoholic feels when they don't do recovery.
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That is not how a non alcoholic feels when they don't have a
14:48
solution because they don't need a solution, right.
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And so, you know, I, it was the first year was crazy.
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I did have to be hospitalized because my suicidal ideation was
15:04
so bad. I think I had two tools in my
15:07
toolbox, suicide and alcohol. And you took away alcohol.
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And it was just like, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
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You know, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
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But I got the help that I needed for that, and I continued to do
15:23
the work. And I found that I was able to
15:25
develop other coping skills, and I was able to, you know, fill
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the hole inside of me that I had been pouring alcohol all over
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since I had been like, 13 years old, you know?
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Wow, thank you for sharing that. That's that was amazing.
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You know what, I, I, I needed to hear that today.
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I think that piece about I never heard somebody, I haven't heard
15:49
somebody say it quite like that. Where, but I, I definitely
15:52
resonate with that, where it's like when the average person
15:56
stops putting drugs, alcohol, whatever the hell, gambling,
15:59
sex, whatever in their body, the solution like automatically
16:03
appears and it's just like, oh, well, that was, that was close,
16:07
right? That was a close call.
16:08
But the way you described, you know, resonating with that
16:13
feeling of you take away the drugs and the alcohol.
16:17
And because I can relate to that when I don't work on my recovery
16:19
today. And it's, you know, it's not
16:20
just going to meetings, it's not just, you know, 12 step work.
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It's there's a whole gambit of things that I have to do
16:27
connecting with people, you know, connecting with a mentor
16:31
in, in, you know, on a daily basis.
16:33
Even I feel significantly worse when I'm not working on my
16:37
recovery in that aspect. Then when I when I am, it's like
16:41
a it's night and day, right? And so I appreciate you.
16:46
You kind of painting a a nice picture with that, that that's
16:52
really nice. Yeah.
16:53
It's like I can't relate to what all these people are going
16:56
through when I come in and I came out at 23, so, you know,
16:59
21. I can only imagine, right?
17:01
Like you come in and there's all these old people, you know,
17:04
getting sober and have jobs and cars and you don't notice like
17:09
the, the people in the corners, right, that are, have like that
17:11
are like you, you notice all the people that are coming up and
17:13
talking to you in 20 years. That's all I heard, right?
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It's like 20 years, 30 years. I'm like, what the like, why are
17:19
you still here, man? Like, why are you still coming
17:21
here, right? That was my first reaction when
17:22
I came in. And so I was always taught to
17:25
notice the similarities and not the differences, right?
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It's something that I struggle with today because it's very
17:30
easy to to look at the differences, right?
17:32
You mentioned getting outside help.
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I think that that's really important in recovery too.
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How did you go about doing that? Like how did you even know you
17:40
needed that? What did you come to a point in
17:42
recovery where you're like, maybe, maybe there's other bases
17:46
I need to cover and not just this drinking problem?
17:48
I mean, what happened was I was. I wanted to die so badly.
17:56
I wanted to die so badly. Fantasizing about killing myself
17:59
was the only thing that gave me relief in that moment, right?
18:02
And the hysterical crying would start when I thought of all the
18:07
reasons I couldn't do it and at what that meant about having to
18:11
continue to feel the way that I was feeling.
18:13
And so I got, I, I called my dad and I said like I, I need to go
18:18
to the hospital. I need to go to the hospital.
18:22
And so we, we went to CAMH and they admitted me and I got some
18:27
time to kind of level out. And, you know, I have done
18:33
therapy on and off over the years.
18:35
The the program 12 step fellowship doesn't fix
18:40
everything. Yeah.
18:41
Sometimes, though, like, it gets me to the door.
18:44
Yeah. You know, I think that it can
18:48
show me where I need to go and like, that's the power of it.
18:54
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and then somebody else
18:56
takes it from there. But it can't fix everything for
18:59
me. Yeah.
19:01
Yeah, it's a good point, though. It, it kind of shines light
19:03
though on these problems. And it it's like, I can't be the
19:06
only one going through this, right?
19:08
I can't be there's. And it's I've learned that today
19:10
it's like whatever I'm going through, somebody has done it,
19:12
gone through it, gone through worse.
19:15
I've come to realize that, you know, the longer I stay sober.
19:20
I also, I resonated a lot with, you know, hanging out with
19:22
people that, you know, we're worse than you.
19:25
We kind of choose these like lower companions as it as it
19:28
says, right? And how did you, so I guess how
19:32
did you find the new community in recovery, especially at the
19:36
age of 21? Like what did you do for that?
19:37
How did that happen? Well, the hilarious thing is
19:39
that like, actually a lot of those people ended up also in
19:43
program. That's great, yeah.
19:45
Also in program, you know, a new person would walk in the door
19:48
and we'd be like, hey, nice to see you again.
19:53
But at that time, there were a lot of young women getting sober
19:58
and. That that was the thing, like I
20:01
thought my life was over. And really it, it just began
20:03
because we would go out dancing, we'd go to concerts, we would do
20:06
stuff. And I was not doing stuff right.
20:08
I remember the first time I went to a concert and I remembered
20:11
the end of it and I was like, oh, this is like so much better.
20:15
This is so much better because yes, I was sober, but I was also
20:19
22 by this point. And so that meant having fun and
20:25
getting out there and doing things and staying up till 4:00
20:27
in the morning and drinking too much Red Bull and like all of
20:30
all of the stuff. And I actually found that I had
20:34
so much more fun and did so much more once I stopped, you know,
20:40
drinking alone in the basement, which was where it ended up.
20:44
It's just different, right? Like it's just, it's totally
20:46
different. I feel like I had to get past
20:50
this. I don't know it, you know, I was
20:53
thinking about it today, but playing the tape through it's,
20:56
you hear it so much and sometimes it's overused, but
20:58
it's, it's so true. Like whenever I walk by on the
21:00
patio and I see somebody having a, a beer and that thought comes
21:03
into my mind where I'm like, oh, what?
21:06
And thank God, it's, it's better now.
21:08
It's more fleeting. It's, you know, like I have
21:09
tools to deal with it, but it, oh, wouldn't it be nice if I
21:12
could have a beer on the patio like that guy, you know?
21:17
And then I'm quickly reminded of what the next six hours, 6 days,
21:21
six months look like after having that one beer, right?
21:24
So I just, I feel like there's like any time I'm having these
21:29
triggers or, or urges, I just have to stop and really be
21:32
honest with myself, right? And think like I don't drink
21:37
like the Bud Light commercial. And moreover, like, do I want to
21:40
have one beer? Because I never liked having
21:44
one. I never liked having one.
21:46
The reality is the way that I want to drink because I want to
21:49
get fucked up, that's how I want to drink.
21:54
My my mom's not an alcoholic at all.
21:57
And she stops when she starts to feel something.
22:02
Right. Like that's actually a normal
22:03
way to drink. Yeah.
22:05
And so I at a certain point have to ask myself, like, if I really
22:09
want to drink, like what we used to joke and say, I wish I
22:14
weren't an alcoholic. I would drink every day.
22:16
Right. I love that.
22:17
Yeah. You know, I love that.
22:20
And so like, why do I want this so badly?
22:23
Because if I'm, if I have a normal relationship to alcohol,
22:27
then I should be able to take or leave it.
22:30
I shouldn't be willing to burn my life to the ground because
22:33
maybe it'll be fine. I shouldn't be willing to take
22:36
that risk. And, and it's a lot of it is
22:40
like ego to me today too, where it's like, I just want to have,
22:43
I want to be able to control everything in my life, right.
22:45
And some days sobriety, alcohol, substances feels like the last
22:50
thing, right? Where it's like I can control
22:52
and you know, I not that I can control everything, but it's
22:55
like it's the one thing that kind of really took me down
22:58
where your ego kind of comes in and it's like you still have a
23:02
chance, right? You haven't lost yet, right?
23:04
And it's like this battle back and forth where, you know, I, I
23:08
have the opportunity to be able to control the thing that took
23:11
me down, right. And that's why they say when you
23:13
come in here, there has to be no reservation, no lurking notion
23:16
that somehow someday I can drink like a normal person.
23:20
Because, yeah, to your point, when I see my wife or when I see
23:23
my mom, like leaving this much alcohol left on it.
23:26
And it just blows my mind. And I'm telling someone like,
23:29
Can you believe that? And they're like, why it was
23:31
she, it was warm. Like, she probably didn't like
23:33
it, right. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm an
23:35
alcohol. I'm coming at her.
23:37
I wanted to ask you something because I saw this on Instagram
23:39
the other day and I, I have my answer, but I want to hear your
23:44
answer. My total identity is not that
23:51
I'm an alcoholic, right? But at the same time, it's very
23:54
easy for me to skirt around that a little bit and be like, I'm
23:58
not an alcoholic anymore at all, right?
24:00
There's, there's like a balance between that.
24:02
What do you like when you say you're an alcoholic or an addict
24:05
or whatever? What is your identity, I guess
24:09
around that? And what do you think about
24:10
like, because I and you know, just some quick context that
24:14
someone on the on Instagram the other day was like, I don't
24:16
identify as it's not my identity.
24:18
I'm not an alcoholic, but you know what I mean?
24:19
And I was like, Oh, that's dangerous.
24:21
Like maybe if you relapse like I did, you would say that you, you
24:25
know what I mean. So what's your thought on?
24:26
That I think that it's a filter, right?
24:30
Like it's one of many. It's not the totality of who I
24:32
am, right? I am my sister, I'm a Scorpio,
24:38
you know, I I'm a Canadian. I am I am like many things and
24:43
one of those things is an alcoholic.
24:45
And so it is something that I just need to keep in mind as I
24:52
go through the world. It is something that I really
24:55
need to keep in mind when I encounter anything that has the
24:58
opportunity to change my mind state.
25:02
I really need to keep in mind there, right?
25:04
But it's just something that I kind of need to keep in mind as
25:07
I go through the world. Just like I when I'm hungry, I
25:14
get, I'm so irritable and so angry, right.
25:18
And so when I'm hungry, I just need to be careful about how I
25:22
go through the world. You know, I it's just, it's it's
25:26
a piece of me. It's not all of me, but it is a
25:28
piece of me that needs to be present on a low level kind of
25:32
all the time. Yeah.
25:34
You know, Yeah. And you know, I, that was, yeah,
25:38
well said. I, I think that it's especially
25:41
true because there's this kind of like I said, this dangerous
25:44
zone where it's like, well, if I'm not an alcoholic now I have
25:47
a back door, right? Or if that's not my whole
25:49
identity, then what piece of it is me?
25:51
And then I, you know, there's these like mental math, like you
25:53
said in your head where you're like, well, maybe I'm only 5%
25:55
alcohol, you know what I mean? So it's like you start
25:57
justifying and then you're like, well, if I'm only 5% alcohol,
26:00
then that means I can have half a beer or a sip of beer and be
26:02
OK. I don't know, that's just the
26:03
way my brain, I could see myself like getting into that
26:06
situation. So it's a good point.
26:08
And I like what you said about, you know, whenever I get go
26:12
through really tough situations or mind altering situations, I
26:17
know what'll fix this quick, right?
26:19
And for me it's, you know, alcohol, yes, but more so like
26:24
any kind of stimulant is is like what'll make me more present.
26:28
You mentioned in the beginning make me myself, right, You know,
26:32
fit into a room perfectly like a puzzle.
26:35
People are laughing at my jokes more.
26:37
And then I don't know, if I look back now, that was maybe 10
26:40
minutes of my whole drinking and using career was that if I
26:44
looked from the outside and saw myself at the bar, I'd probably
26:48
say it's yeah, like 2 to 5% of that time was me in that
26:52
scenario, fitting in, having fun.
26:54
And then it just went downhill from there, right?
26:59
I want to talk a little bit about faith and spirituality.
27:02
I've been trying to incorporate that a little bit more because I
27:05
love this topic. I think it's so important.
27:07
And when I was in rehab this last time and many times before
27:09
that, but this time especially, I noticed it, you know, when
27:12
they bring in people to speak in the, in the rehab, every single
27:15
person that came in talked about their higher power, their
27:18
spirituality, their God. And it's important to me today.
27:20
I pray everyday. I have my own understanding of a
27:23
higher power. What is faith to you?
27:25
What is spirituality look like? For sure.
27:29
I so I've recently been on a little bit of a journey with it.
27:35
I think I got sober and I had a very uncomplicated relationship
27:38
with my hair power where I believe that kind of everything
27:42
happens for a reason and it'll all work out and it's all for
27:47
the best and kind of all of those things, right?
27:50
And that was, that was proven by this experience of this thing
27:52
that I thought was really terrible getting sober, right?
27:55
And it and it being amazing in the end and then, you know, not
28:00
getting a job and getting a better job and like kind of
28:02
experiences like that. Where there was a
28:03
disappointment. And then something better
28:05
happened. And then when I was I, so I got
28:12
married to somebody I meant in the program.
28:14
And it was very wonderful for many years.
28:18
And then he relapsed. And that set off over like
28:23
several years of, you know, it. Things would improve.
28:26
And then there would be another relapse and things would
28:28
improve. And then there would be another
28:29
relapse. And things got very bad.
28:33
Things got very, very bad. And I got really, really far
28:37
away from my hair power and from my sponsor.
28:42
I think that I couldn't admit to anybody else what was going on
28:45
because then I would have to admit to myself.
28:47
And if I had admitted to myself what was happening, then that
28:50
would mean that my life as I knew it was, was over, right?
28:53
Because then some big things were going to have to happen.
28:57
So I was just trying to pretend that it was OK and that
29:00
everything was fine. And it was very dark.
29:04
It was very, very dark. I had no emotional sobriety.
29:10
I was just up to my eyeballs in denial.
29:14
And I was like in a lot of pain, you know, And it was a very
29:18
painful situation. I didn't want to, I didn't want
29:23
to accept what was happening because that would mean that,
29:28
you know, all my greatest fears would come true.
29:30
And you know, they did right? Like we ended up separating and
29:34
divorcing and God, it hurt just just as much as I thought it
29:38
would. It hurt just as much as I
29:40
thought it would. My life.
29:43
Like we had been together for like 9 years and we had a life
29:49
together and, you know, we got together quite young and every
29:55
piece of furniture I owned, we had bought together and every
29:58
plan I had ever made for my life.
29:59
We started dating when I was about a year sober.
30:02
We had made together and I had made with him in mind, right?
30:06
And so it was this experience of like I had felt in many ways,
30:12
like starting over, you know, with my life, right?
30:18
God. And it was so painful.
30:20
It was so painful. He he's OK, he's OK, but we did,
30:27
we did get divorced. I think that too much happened.
30:30
I'll say that. And so, you know, I walked away
30:36
from that like I will always love him.
30:41
We, I wouldn't be the person that I am today without him.
30:44
He is a wonderful person and I like wish the best for him
30:49
always. And I do not regret getting
30:52
married to him because that's like so much part of my journey
30:54
and there's so many things that I wouldn't trade.
30:58
But at the same time, it was like maybe the worst thing that
31:01
ever happened to me that divorce.
31:03
And so I was in this place where, you know, my life had
31:08
fallen apart really in some devastating ways.
31:11
And at that time, I, I had some friends who experienced like a
31:18
really terrible personal tragedy and some other friends who had
31:21
had some really great losses, you know, and I felt like God
31:29
couldn't help me, you know, because I looked, I think that
31:34
it's easy to say that it, it all happens for a reason when it's a
31:38
job or even when it's a divorce, right?
31:41
Because with both of those things, there's a possibility of
31:43
something better coming along, right?
31:45
Maybe, maybe there's another better job out there.
31:48
Maybe there's another relationship or a marriage that
31:51
will be a better fit for you and fit for him, right?
31:57
You know, and like everyone will be OK and everyone will be
32:00
better off. But when somebody dies,
32:05
especially when that person is young, there's no right.
32:12
There's no, this is better, It's not better.
32:16
It's terrible, It's tragic. You know, and something was said
32:21
to one of those friends that experienced this tragedy, which
32:24
was maybe God said to. And I think that that kind of
32:32
became the cornerstone of the higher power that I would
32:34
develop, which is not a higher power that grants my wishes,
32:39
which we always knew, right, but up higher power that is inside
32:45
of me and is like with me along for the ride.
32:48
And I had this experience when I got sober of my perspective
32:53
changing so greatly that it felt like reality shifting, right?
32:57
Like there were things that I thought were so clearly one way.
33:01
And I got sober and I did some steps and I did some work and
33:05
all of a sudden the ground shifted and it looked completely
33:09
different, like it felt like the facts of the situation were
33:11
different, right? And I think that that is where
33:13
my higher power lies in that power, right?
33:16
In the way that connecting with my higher power can change how I
33:21
feel about the world, you know? And I, I believe that it's like
33:26
in other people as well, right? That this is something that's
33:31
maybe inside like all of us. And so connecting with my higher
33:35
power now doesn't mean that anything's ever going to be
33:38
different. Like maybe maybe another better
33:42
job won't come along. Maybe another relationship won't
33:46
come along. Maybe another thing won't come
33:48
along that will like make this all for the best.
33:50
But I will feel joy again no matter what happens.
33:54
I will laugh again, right? No matter, no matter what
33:57
happens, like there will be good things again.
34:00
And today I feel so connected with my higher power and I feel
34:05
so much joy and happiness. Not when I get to when I get,
34:11
you know, good feedback at work or I get to go on a trip or
34:15
these like big wonderful things happen.
34:17
It's instead when I look up and there's like a really beautiful
34:20
sunset or I'm out for a run and I'm loving the song and I feel
34:25
really fast. And it's like this moment that
34:27
that's just so good, right? Or I'm with friends and we're,
34:32
we're laughing and I feel so connected to them and I feel so
34:35
much love, like both, I love them so much and I feel so loved
34:38
by them. And like, I think that my life
34:42
is so full of these moments, right?
34:46
Of joy that are free, that are cheap and that are here all the
34:49
time, right? Like when I cuddle with my cat
34:52
and she's like purring and it's so like, it's so wonderful,
34:57
right? Or it's a beautiful summer day
35:01
and it's so hot and we go and get ice cream and it's just
35:07
like, nice to be on Earth. And I think that my higher
35:10
power, like connecting with my higher power today, means seeing
35:13
and engaging with those moments. Noticing.
35:15
Them noticing them and like really being present for them
35:19
and really savoring them and letting them mean something, you
35:22
know, and who knows about all the rest.
35:25
But like that, that I can do. And I think that my higher power
35:30
lets me be there for those moments and lets me be present
35:33
for those moments. And like, I connect every day
35:39
with my higher power in hopes that I will get to live a life
35:45
that I am grateful for, that I'm present for where I show up for
35:48
people, where I'm proud of myself.
35:51
And that's like full of, of love, you know?
35:55
I love that. Yeah, that was well said.
35:58
There's a lot of good stuff there.
35:59
I I really enjoy, you know, the ground shifting is a really
36:03
powerful metaphor and I experienced that too.
36:05
I still do it to this day some days where you said something
36:09
was so one way when you came in, right.
36:12
And I, I totally relate to that. Like, Nope, I'm doomed.
36:17
Like you said, my life is over. I'm doomed forever.
36:19
I cannot have fun without substances, period.
36:23
Full stop, end of story. You're all wrong.
36:26
I'm right. And then I come into recovery
36:28
and I'm wait, I could do that sober.
36:30
Wait, you can have fun. Wait, you can do this.
36:34
And all these things start to, and slowly it doesn't for me at
36:37
least it, there wasn't a moment where it was like everything
36:40
just changed, right? It was very slow.
36:41
And I, I understand that some people do have those
36:43
experiences. I'm sure I've had them here and
36:46
there, but nothing like completely earth shattering
36:49
where I was like a, a new man all of a sudden.
36:51
It's slowly, in my experience, over time, one more sunset.
36:55
That's a beautiful one too. Because yeah, I can really be
36:57
present if I just leave my damn phone at home, you know, I, I
37:00
can be present in those moments and really enjoy them 1 sunset
37:03
at a time, one hug at a time. You know, one I used to hate
37:09
cats and then I had to babysit my sister in law's cat and it it
37:13
it purred on me one time and I was like, this is actually
37:15
really it's. So good.
37:16
I I took a video of it. I was like this is.
37:18
Really. Or you come home and your dog is
37:20
so happy to see. You you're like what?
37:22
Me. Yeah, I'm a piece of shit.
37:24
Why? I'm like.
37:25
I think that life is so full of those like just tiny moments and
37:30
you get used to them and it's so easy to skirt by them.
37:32
So easy. It's so easy to skirt by them.
37:34
But like, that's what it's about.
37:37
That's what it's fucking. About yeah, absolutely.
37:39
How do you how do you tap into them?
37:44
I think that I've tried really, really hard to be, you know,
37:47
this has been a project, like being present for this stuff has
37:50
been a project of the past couple years, you know, right,
37:54
Of really like wanting to be there for those and gratitude
38:02
lists are a big part of it. You know, when I feel connected
38:08
to the moment, like really like sitting in it and like noticing
38:12
it and like taking a minute with it and getting like really
38:21
honing in on the things that I care about and that I like and
38:25
make me feel good. You know, like I fucking love
38:27
sunsets. You know, I every time, every
38:30
time, it's great. I love ice cream.
38:33
I love my cat. Like, what are the things that
38:35
are not big, that are small, that I love and like making
38:40
space in my life for them, you know, making a point of doing
38:46
those things, of ensuring that my life is full of those things.
38:53
And also, like I had to, I think there were times when I thought
38:56
this isn't working, you know, and it just takes time.
39:01
I want everything now. Yeah, same every time I.
39:03
Want it yesterday I. Want it yesterday right?
39:06
And quick fixes go away quickly. And when I take the time to
39:12
build something, it's sticky and it lasts and I just need to
39:16
remember that. I really like the I like, you
39:21
know, when you're in it, trauma, pain, and it feels like it's
39:25
never going to end, you know, rehab, whatever, insert whatever
39:29
here, loss, grief, depression, suicide, suicidal ideations.
39:38
The idea of just reminding myself that this too shall pass.
39:42
And you said that, right? It's like I will feel joy again,
39:45
just not on my fucking time, right?
39:48
Not on my time, but I will get there eventually.
39:52
Sometimes I have to beat that into my head, right?
39:53
And that's where journaling comes in and praying and cuz
39:57
when it's in here it doesn't work right?
39:59
Like I need to get it out there and you know it's hard some
40:01
days, right I'm. Like some days we thrive and
40:04
some days we survive. And I've heard people say, you
40:07
know, my worst day sober is better than my best day
40:12
drinking. That is not my experience.
40:15
Let me tell you, that is not my experience.
40:17
I have had some very, very, very bad day sober but and sometimes
40:26
it's just about going to bed and getting up again and like
40:30
getting through because the good, the goodwill come again,
40:35
you know? Yeah, I agree with that.
40:39
There was a time when I think I felt like that.
40:40
But yeah, like there's been some days I will.
40:43
I do always say this though, that it, it's always at least
40:46
right Today it's easier for me to stay in recovery than it was
40:50
for me to come back into recovery.
40:52
Like full stop. Today that might change, right?
40:54
I might go through something I will go through something.
40:56
I'm sure life is gonna happen. And there's also a lot of
41:00
freedom in knowing that that I'm gonna experience loss most.
41:03
There's a chance there's a lot of freedom in that because
41:07
everyday is like a preparation for that kind of sounds fucked
41:09
up, but at the same time, it's like life is going to happen,
41:12
man, and you have no control over it.
41:13
That's just as good as the big. The good things are going to
41:16
happen too, right? If you had control over them,
41:18
you would sell yourself short, right?
41:20
It's, we say that every time we come in here.
41:21
If I could plan my life out for the next 30 years, I would sell
41:24
myself short because I've done it.
41:26
I've done it before, right? Remember what you wanted, what
41:29
you remember when you wanted what you have now.
41:31
It's like, I wanted this thing, I wanted this podcast to start
41:35
off. I wanted whatever.
41:37
And you get it. And to your point, it's like,
41:40
what's next? How do I make money?
41:43
On it that wasn't. It yeah, this doesn't feel like
41:45
I thought it would, right. It almost never feels good too.
41:48
When I get the job, the car that like it's just I'm like.
41:53
Because go ahead, even now when I want things, I have to remind
41:56
myself that like, there's people in my life that have those
41:58
things and I don't think they feel how I want to feel.
42:01
I don't think they feel how I think I'm going to feel.
42:04
You know, it's not going to fix it.
42:09
All of that stuff is not going to fix it.
42:10
And like, you know, during those dark days, I did not drink
42:12
because I knew that it would. It would only make it worse, not
42:17
better. Definitely were.
42:18
You close. I had a moment that was I was at
42:24
a work party and it was AI had just joined a new team.
42:29
And so I didn't really know anybody.
42:31
And my rule when I was getting sober was that one person always
42:36
had to know the full story. One person always had to know
42:39
the complete story because that was a fail safe, right?
42:43
Because I wouldn't have the thought.
42:45
I don't want to drink in front of this person.
42:47
And that would usually give me enough distance to like get out
42:50
of there, make a phone call, do whatever I needed, right.
42:53
Yeah. But I did not have that in this
42:55
moment. And so we were it was like a
42:59
holiday party. And we were at a bar and I
43:02
ordered a, a non alcoholic drink.
43:04
And they brought it over and it had a straw and I took a huge
43:08
sip and it was down before I realized that there was alcohol
43:12
in it. And I, I put the drink down and
43:16
I felt all warm. And this was like in the, I was
43:20
like, not in a great emotional place when this was happening.
43:22
And it was not a great emotional situation because I was around a
43:25
bunch of people. I did not know how to, are you
43:26
kind of uncomfortable? Right.
43:28
Like so many feelings. But I was a month away from 10
43:33
years, and the thought that I had was I got to get 10 years.
43:41
And that gave me enough space to call a friend and, like, get out
43:45
of there and go home, you know? Wow.
43:49
But I like it. Was it?
43:52
Yeah. That was very.
43:52
That could have went many different.
43:54
Ways that could have went many different ways.
43:55
And I just imagine, right. And especially the fact that I,
43:58
I I felt warm. Yeah.
44:01
You know, you know, that feeling.
44:02
Yeah. Yeah.
44:05
So, I mean, thank God, that could have that could have
44:07
really gone badly. And in retrospect, like I should
44:10
have been more careful in, in that, you know, I had gotten so
44:13
comfortable being around alcohol, being around people who
44:17
are drinking all of that stuff. You know, that's a relatively
44:21
big part of my life. Like, I, I like to go out.
44:24
I like to do stuff. And so I had gotten too
44:27
comfortable, I think, and not recognize the emotional place I
44:31
was in because I had a reaction to that accident that was big
44:36
and was not the reaction I, I would normally have if I was
44:39
like, in a really good, steady, sober, emotional place.
44:42
Yeah. And spiritual place, right?
44:44
Yeah, yeah, I, I think, I think too, and I'm not going to speak
44:48
for you, but I'm, I'm just thinking about in myself and
44:50
that because I've been in that situation.
44:52
I remember I was at my sister's birthday party and was at one of
44:56
the bars downtown and I everyone knew I was in like no one I'd
45:00
known I'd relapsed yet because I wasn't drinking and I was just
45:03
doing my whatever, my Adderall and stuff like that.
45:06
And I remember ordering a virgin Caesar and I remember her like I
45:10
knew she didn't hear me, but I didn't, I didn't like make sure,
45:14
right. And so I feel like when you're
45:17
in a, in a place like that, you're kind of your guard is
45:20
kind of down, right? And you're like, I mean, this is
45:23
at least for me, if she screws this up right now, I'm not going
45:26
to be upset. You know what I mean?
45:27
Like I'm not going to like, Oh well, if I drink, I drink right?
45:32
And it's just because to your point, like I'm not in a good
45:35
place. I'm not I'm not bringing my
45:37
toolbox from from my car into the bar, right?
45:40
My my spiritual toolbox, my kid of calling people, telling
45:45
somebody everything. That's I had a sponsor that told
45:47
me that to make sure, no matter what you do in life, make sure
45:50
there's one person on this friggin planet that knows
45:53
everything, no secrets, right? And so I try to follow that
45:57
today and and, you know, I, I've often skirted that and been
46:00
like, well, you know, my wife knows everything, but it's like
46:03
I got to tell someone in recovery, right?
46:04
Because, you know, she's a lot more educated now and she, but
46:07
there was times where she didn't, she at the, she didn't
46:11
know that ADHD medication could have been a problem, right?
46:14
So that's my master manipulator. It's like, no, I got to tell
46:18
somebody that knows, right? And yeah, I love that.
46:23
I think it's, it's super important to bring that tool kit
46:26
in, but also that that's, that's crazy.
46:29
Wow. So you ended up getting to 10
46:31
years. That's an amazing moment.
46:35
What? What does your day look like
46:37
today? What what are like some must
46:39
do's in recovery to stay connected and stay grounded?
46:43
Prayer every day. Yeah, I should meditate more
46:48
than I do. I try and do a gratitude list
46:53
every day. That's really important.
46:58
Connecting with people, you know, keeping my friends and my
47:02
family and the people that I love in mind and being present
47:06
for them and showing up for them.
47:08
I know that's something I pray for a lot, to show up for the
47:09
people in my life. Being of service, sponsoring,
47:17
showing up at work or like everywhere, you know, I think
47:23
that there's so many ways to do service.
47:25
It's not just helping somebody else in recovery.
47:28
It's showing up for all of the people who are in my life.
47:34
A really big thing is trying to be the person I want to be,
47:39
right? And like figuring out what I
47:45
value and what matters to me and like embodying that in every
47:49
moment. That is as much part of daily
47:52
recovery as anything else. I think, you know, really making
47:59
an effort to show up as my best self everyday in all areas of my
48:02
life. And then, you know, doing the
48:07
work, doing step work, going to meetings, things like that.
48:10
Yeah, I think sometimes I have to just service can be as simple
48:18
to me today as like, I'm not gonna bring my phone to dinner,
48:21
right? Because that's something I've
48:24
been struggling with. It's been voiced to me by people
48:26
in my life like, hey, you've been on your phone a lot in
48:28
public and that's to your like, that's not me showing up at all,
48:31
right? So showing up could be as simple
48:33
as just for me leaving my phone in the car and being available,
48:38
being present, like you said, being the brother, son, husband
48:42
that I want to be. When I first came in to
48:45
recovery, I had a sponsor say to me, just always, you know, what
48:48
kind of man do you want to be? And do your actions reflect
48:51
that? Right?
48:51
If I ask myself that every day, like I'm in the right direction,
48:55
you know, I'm, I'm not perfect, I'm nowhere near perfect, but
48:57
I'm making progress, not perfection like you said.
49:02
The other thing too, that you mentioned, I, I wanted to touch
49:07
too on the, the perspective change because that's so
49:10
important. Have you been able to help
49:15
anyone that's gone, what gone through what you've gone
49:17
through? Has that opportunity presented
49:19
itself yet? Nothing really specifically
49:22
that's mine, but I do think that the feelings are so universal.
49:29
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
49:32
And so I think that I've been able to help people who have
49:37
experienced real bottoms in sobriety, who have experienced
49:42
the feeling of their life falling apart, sobriety or who
49:48
are struggling with their sense of higher power because things
49:54
have that have happened that have like rightfully shaken the
49:58
idea of that. You know, So I think that those
50:02
are areas where I've been able to like bring that forward.
50:06
But my experience is a pretty significant specific 1.
50:10
And so it's not necessarily the same as like, you know, I
50:14
remember getting sober and people would say, I know exactly
50:17
how you feel and I believe them and they would say I feel better
50:21
and I believed them. And it was like a weight off.
50:25
I haven't necessarily had that that same specific experience
50:28
with this, but I do think that there is a nuance that that
50:37
experience has taught me AI no longer prescribe to like a
50:42
really rigid idea of what recovery looks like.
50:47
I think that what I've learned from that experience is just
50:50
like how much things can go wrong and you can still be OK,
50:53
you know, and how much you can do the wrong thing, which I did,
50:59
like I did so many of the wrong things, you know, I was so I was
51:03
in denial and I was so controlling and I was so
51:05
codependent and I was so much of all of these things, you know,
51:10
and like, it's OK, it's OK. It's not ideal.
51:14
It's not, well, the best thing, but like, it's OK, it happens.
51:17
You know, there's I think a lot of freedom that I found in that
51:23
experience. It's taught me how to be chill
51:26
in a way that I was not capable of before.
51:28
You know, I think that for many years I was a perfectionist.
51:31
It was very anxious. And that kind of beat it out of
51:34
me, right? Because like, it felt like the
51:36
worst happened and I got through it.
51:39
And so that's a great lesson that like really bad stuff can
51:44
happen and. If I can get through that, I can
51:48
get through anything. Absolutely.
51:49
Like I think I really learned this too from my wife going
51:53
through it like me in addiction. I mean, it's really tough, you
51:59
know, to watch someone you love go through that day after day
52:02
when they know the answers on the other side of the the river,
52:04
right? It's like a bunch of people are
52:06
just like, hey, come over to this side, cross the bridge.
52:09
It's right here. But when we're an addiction and
52:11
and active alcoholism that bridge it, it's like this,
52:15
right? It's like it has spikes on it
52:17
and shit. Like it's, it's literally
52:18
impossible sometimes to just make the first step onto that
52:22
bridge. And I think I've gotten a new
52:25
perspective of how my drinking and drugging has impacted people
52:30
around me. So I commend you for that.
52:32
Like that's yeah, I that's really, really tough.
52:35
But you had to make some hard decisions, you know, but to to
52:39
my earlier point is like, that's cool.
52:41
What else you got? Like, you know, I could do
52:44
anything now. And I, you know, I mentioned
52:46
earlier that like, save for my family, like basically everyone,
52:50
I love everyone, almost all of them are addicts or Alcoholics
52:55
and they're so fun and wonderful and I love them so much.
53:01
And also they're sick, right? Like that's they're sick.
53:05
We are, I'm sick, yes, right. We're all sick.
53:10
And so sometimes things get crazy, you know, and that's just
53:14
kind of how it is, you know, it's not Wellness.
53:18
Yeah, as long as I like you said some, some days I really I'm
53:21
gripping the steering wheel. Some days, absolutely.
53:23
I love what you said. It's like as long as I can put
53:25
my pillow on the head tonight sober, I've done my job.
53:28
Yep. Tomorrow's gonna be different.
53:29
It might not be better, but it'll be different.
53:31
Yes. Right.
53:33
Love it. It's beautiful.
53:37
Let's close with this because I usually close with this.
53:40
If you could say someone something, if you could say
53:43
something to a struggling alcoholic or an addict or
53:47
somebody in recovery going through trauma, maybe.
53:49
Yep. What would you say to that
53:50
person right now? So I would say that I think that
53:56
in my very worst moments, I would have done anything to feel
54:02
better, would have done anything to feel better, but I had no
54:06
idea what anything was. I had no idea what to do.
54:08
I had no idea what to do. And so I think if you feel like
54:13
that, if you feel like you would do anything to feel better and
54:18
to like not feel this pain anymore, there's something you
54:22
can do. There's something there is a
54:24
solution. You know it exists, recovery
54:27
exists. It's simple, but it is not easy.
54:34
But like it, you don't, you don't have to live in that pain
54:37
anymore. Getting sober was the hardest
54:41
thing I ever did. But it's also the thing that I
54:44
am most proud of. It is the most important thing
54:47
in my life. It is the kind of cub from which
54:51
everything else flows. And I think that I would say
54:59
that like, you know, it can't get better and it does get
55:01
better. Just like reach out.
55:06
Yeah, beautiful. Thanks so much for coming down,
55:10
Bridget. I appreciate you.
55:11
I had a great time today. Thank you.
55:13
Thanks. Thanks for listening.
55:15
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55:31
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