Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 681 Crypto’s Next Blowoff Top? Kyle Chassé Reveals What’s Coming for Bitcoin, DeFi & Altcoins

Transcript

Ep. 681 Crypto’s Next Blowoff Top? Kyle Chassé Reveals What’s Coming for Bitcoin, DeFi & Altcoins · CRYPTO 101

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Crypto101 podcast, presented by Gemini.
0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Your bridge to the future of money.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Crypto 101 podcast, and this is a special one.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I'm really, really excited.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: This is as real time as it gets.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: The markets above all time highs, things are pumping.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: All coins are going crazy, but we're just feeling like we're at the beginning of this incredible Q4 rally.
0:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I was looking through some charts, you know.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like 2025 has just been a lot of consolidation, a lot of compression, despite Bitcoin being up big.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the market hasn't really gone full bore yet in Q4, it's typically kind of when this stuff unfolds.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a sweet heart sort of setup here, Goldilocks Windows, and I'm bringing on a legendary trader in investor who's been in crypto since I mean, I'll ask him, I think since 2012, making some investments in Ripple, I
1:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like Coinbase, early in, you know, Bitfinex, Kraken, Circle, you know, like pretty much you name it.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody who's like all these different firms that are building the infrastructure of the space.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Chasse has been an investor in.
1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a founder of MD Global Kyle.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We are so pumped to have you join us.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We're recording here Monday, October 6th.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: How the hell are you?
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And thanks for joining.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Bryce, thanks for having me first of all, and feeling great.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting after being in this space since 2012, like you said, and you know, in the early days, well, really, it wasn't really until I started doing YouTube.
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And initially, for the first couple of years was part time, and then the last two years has been full time.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, you know, I had a lot of Bitcoin back in 2013 when I sold my company and bought Bitcoin with it,
1:58
[SPEAKER_01]: From that point all the way until, you know, I never had any other revenue streams just as like an entrepreneur trying to figure out how to build and crypto and what to do and spent a lot of my Bitcoin on startups and failures and startups and failures.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't until the 2021 when we launched paid as a launchpad, which was the first time I started making some money again.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But the point is that,
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: through that time from 2012 until 2021, you know, Bitcoin has had its cycles.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never really, my mindset wasn't about making money at the time.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew that eventually Bitcoin would go up to a price to where I was okay.
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But I still wanted to do something interesting in the world.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it realizing how much Bitcoin I used to have versus how much I have today spending it losing it over leveraging all these kind of mistakes that were made I better start paying attention, you know, on how to retain capital and grow that.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so really having the YouTube channel has helped me a lot in understanding markets and macro conditions and market cycles and.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: These kind of things.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yes, I've been it for a long time.
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been paying attention to the macro cycles and macro conditions since about, you know, 2020, 2021.
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to learn, you know, let's go in on how to predict and pay attention to what's going on in the future a bit better.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But the point that I was making about all the time highs is that even after all this time, you use, if you're in this, and in this full time, and you have a lot of your net worth wrapped up in it,
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost impossible to separate yourself emotionally from the market conditions.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when you wake up and you see all-time highs, you're just in a better mood, right?
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, bit quiet, and then when the markets are sideways for a whole year, like they have been, like that whole time it's just like,
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: life to me at that point seems kind of like just like the price.
3:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It just seems kind of boring inside ways, you know?
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess we live, those are super deep into a liver life emotionally based on the charts a little bit.
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that's that's anything as much as you try to settle separate yourself emotionally from the prices.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it just affects you one another.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I think most people are good mood today.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's funny, you know, prices really are a chart or a graph of like human emotion over time, and so it is hard to extract yourself from that, but I found one of the successful trading adages has been to invert the chart sometimes, right, because if you invert the chart, like, oh, well, the prices are up huge, maybe I'm going to take a little profits off prices are down huge, maybe I'm going to add a little bit, but it seems like.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: right now I don't want to invert the chart.
4:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to keep buying even though we're high because it feels like we're just beginning this break out.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You know again once you know kind of crypto starts to trade above it's all time high like a total market cap perspective which we're just starting to do.
4:38
[SPEAKER_00]: There's very little price resistance above us.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like we're in this price discovery mode but the one like kind of chipped to fall at least in my opinion before we get really crazy is Ethereum above all time highs.
4:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're close, in fact, by the time people were watching this, you know, first thing in the morning tomorrow, we're going to edit it, we're going to get it out.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Ethereum might be above 5K, but once we get that five-handle on Ethereum, there's going to be that wealth effect.
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: People are going to really be like, you know, I'm starting to get calls people personally starting to reach out like, hey, like, did I already miss out?
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it feels like things are starting to come.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel that groundswell happening, but, you know, take us back
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: that allowed you to take such enormous risk on these early early crypto companies.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it something philosophical?
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it something in the fundamentals?
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you so present to get into some of these early rounds early companies early exposure?
5:34
[SPEAKER_00]: When a lot of people weren't even thinking that a crypto was going to be a thing.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, I'll answer that.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I guess you're probably going to want to go to market cycles and stuff like that.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So just remind me to talk about a couple of things institutional, phomo, and then like you said, then new people who are texting you.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I have some insight on that, which I think is quite interesting.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Going back to 2012 is when I first learned about Bitcoin, and at that time I had a startup, it was called the Reverse Aging Institutes, the whole 10 years before that I was working in longevity, and there wasn't a whole lot of value in the business itself, because it was basically a consulting company for these high net worth individuals, which was me being able to provide what I knew.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So the guy bought the company just for the branding, which was cool, like I did a
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like 30, $40,000 in branding, it's like 120k and I put that in Bitcoin in 2013 and I started a Bitcoin lottery called World Super Lotto and that idea was like, you know, I had heard on the radio a state local a state lottery was like $300 something million dollars.
6:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, wow, that's crazy.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What if you put one lottery for every state to the United States together?
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be like a billion dollars.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there's like lotteries in every country in the world, right?
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And like so what if you had this global lottery that could exist with this currency that wasn't regulated that no one cared about, but like I also thought adoption would come sooner than it actually did.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just experimented and I did like I just really copy pasted like the California state lottery.
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: website, design, the way the numbers are picked.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I bought this, you know, this lottery machine, the physical one from China shipped it to my house in America.
7:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then twice a week, rayon live streaming videos of a lottery.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was pseudo anonymous at the time because I knew that people like I thought Bitcoin was very disruptive.
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that anyone who's been very disruptive to anything of the United States before has been like met with a lot of force.
7:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that like Bitcoin would maybe challenge US dollar one day.
7:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought, well,
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't want to be publicly known for someone doing this stuff right now, so I'll be suit or anonymous.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But the conviction came really from, you know, one, I saw what was happening with Silk Road and how that was like that whole thing blew my mind.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That was how I first learned about it, was learning about Silk Road.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But it wasn't like the drug marketplace or the Bitcoin or even, I discovered the dark web at that time.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: any of those one things together that was so specifically Ahah, it was like, how is this eBay for drugs like allowed to take place and people are paying for it like with this Bitcoin thing.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when I saw WikiLeaks using it, it started accepting donations.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the Ahah moment when I was like, okay, this is someone, this is an organization who, in my mind, was doing a net positive for the world and I saw, and before that, a bit of history,
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the always a tinfoil hack guy, you know, the teenager who was watching all the documentaries about the Federal Reserve and this being a scam and that being a scam and so when I saw WikiLeaks doing what it did and I saw that they weren't all the centralized powers, we're putting pressure on all the payment gateways to shut down their donations and then Bitcoin was a thing that they had to default to to enable them to continue to operate like that was the
8:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just thought this was super interesting.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I had always felt also like at that point, I wasn't interested in voting in the United States.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think that that actually mattered to much degree like, in my life, for my parents' life, like a president of the United States, had never made a difference in the way that they lived their life for their circumstances.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also felt that like, because lobbying was allowed to exist, that these mega corporations are always allowed to influence politicians in, like, as long as lobbying for the United States.
9:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Citizens United.
9:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and as long as lobbying could exist, like I didn't think that there was actually really fair politics or politicians could get things done in a meaningful way.
9:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to do something that was meaningful to the world.
9:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt like there was no real called action at that point before Bitcoin because nothing was able to get around the centralized power of control.
9:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The military industrial complex, the pharmacy industrial complex, all these things.
9:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So Bitcoin was the first thing that said, wow, like this is able to circumvent these centralized powers of control.
9:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the first thing that made me feel like this aha moment where, you know, it could disrupt a lot of these things that were bothering me.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just wanted to be involved in it somehow.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I acquired quite a bit until the 13 and then I did the lottery for fun.
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just like, hey, let's see.
9:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wasn't, I didn't think this was going to make a ton of money, but it was like how, how can I build something with Bitcoin?
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an expert idea.
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was experimental and, um, and it took off and it's it's so interesting.
10:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I love your story because it it really does, you know, we've got, you know, all sorts of different guests that come on the show and everybody gets into crypto at a different time for different reason, but yours really rings true to kind of the cipher punk ideals of, you know, almost this Anna and our co-capitalist kind of viewpoint, whereas, um, you know, back in 2012,
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: it was this, you know, gray money in a sense.
10:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And the industry has evolved so much.
10:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you see it on, you've got commercials on TV.
10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you got the most, you know, important people in finance, like black rock and fidelity and Morgan Stanley, I'll talk about yeah, now we're gonna give you guys Bitcoin exposure like, what do you think?
10:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who's seen it evolved from,
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: 2012 to 2025, you know, what is your, you know, are you disillusioned, you think the industry's lost its way, did you kind of always anticipate like of course this is going to happen if you're going to go to global adoption, you need to have some global regulation.
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you pair the two in your mind?
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So my mindset, you know, I'll keep in my 13 years ago when I took the only capital that I had from the sale that business because I had zero in the bank like at at that business basically, but when I sold it, I had that 120 grand or whatever and for me.
11:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't feel like I was taking a huge risk.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, as young and like my whole entrepreneurial path hadn't really taken off yet at that point.
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I didn't feel like I was like being super risky putting this money.
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have that mindset of like, I just thought that Bitcoin was the place that I should store my money, rather than then fiat.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what I did, I did have a strong feeling, a sense of conviction that there was always going to be
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, whether that means that it's only going to be used for listed activities and people who want it to be, you know, and also in 2013, we really thought that Bitcoin was more like anonymous than it actually is, right?
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We come to find out later and you know, that it's very traceable.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: The three letter agencies love it because they can always find who's doing stuff a bit coin, you know, but at the time, though, it felt that
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of all suspected that it was like this anonymous way to send money back and forth.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that at the time it would definitely be used as a world currency for some sort of people.
12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And more than then was using in 2013.
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that even like at a smaller level of adoption, it would still be popular and used.
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I guess like every year, let's say that my,
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that time too, the 2013, I did suspect that maybe it would be a world reserve currency one day.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess at that point, my conviction was only maybe 40% or something like that, right?
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But probably each passing year after that, that conviction maybe grew by 10% and then, you know, I guess by 2000, I guess maybe 2017 or 18 or something like that, I thought for sure that's sort of eventually become a world reserve currency because you understand
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not programmed to work long-term.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: the US dollar today, for example, it can't sustain the path that it's on right now.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It has one path forward, and that is, you know, debates and devalued.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so then I knew it would become a world as a currency, but you said, the block rocks and fiddalities and don't forget too, we just had vanguard, finally, bend the knee and say, okay, we're also gonna start allowing our clients.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a big turning point too, because if you put on your tinfoil hat,
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and you look a little bit deeper, you know, Vanguard is more of a privately managed fund who we don't really know.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not as much transparency as who is the major money behind that.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people that suspect that, you know, Vanguard was maybe more that old kind of elitist, globalist money, the Rothchild's of the Vanderbilt's, the JP Morgan's, these kind of guys.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you'll see them eventually coming into it
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: feels like, like this is the path of finally me accepted for sure, I made a really interesting video, actually, maybe I can share with you guys a link in the description below.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of my take on the who is Satoshi thing.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's more of a thought experiment than I have any idea that's as true or not.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But the TLDR of that, and if people want to watch the video to get more data of why I have this theory, they can.
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But the TLDR is that what if Bitcoin was actually created by
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: the same folks who have been controlling the U.S.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: dollar for a century.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the people who created the federal reserve.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Famous raw child ramp maybe the famous Rothschild's Quote is like give me the ability to to to control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws, right?
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so think about this for a second, if you are these families who created the federal reserve and you you control the banking, they are all the money in the dollar and even do that for long time.
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: you have unlimited resources, and you have unlimited power.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just seems to you're probably very smart as well.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to me that if you're in that position, you're always playing offense and defense to make sure that you're never disrupted.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're always going to be looking ahead and saying, who's trying to challenge us, who's trying to take away the power of the dollar, and what could come next after every free-fiat currency that's ever existed or major currency that's ever ruled the world of the past,
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: the Great British pound and the ones before that, they all have this like a hundred-year lifespan.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So these guys who are controlling the dollar must have obviously known that, studied history and also studied, you know, modern monetary policy, which is very inflationary and based on debt and not sustainable.
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: that like what when the dollar inevitably comes to an end, like are you still going to be in power for the next century or not.
15:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so so either they were looking for any of the video like going to a lot of details about how the NSA, you know, create, there's a lot of similarities with the Bitcoin code and the Egyptians that they use and the patents that they had.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So CIA, NSA.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun thought experiment to think what if these guys actually created Bitcoin and it was and the thing is like with bricks currencies a bricks trying to also maybe over throw the dollar and create their own current currency right like the US is not going to let that happen without a war right like there's no way the US just quietly observes while the brick stations gather and create a powerful currency like the only thing about today though is these major superpowers have too much actual fire power.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: to want to start a really major war at scary a shit like everyone knows that you know you start launching a MOOC said it's a mutually sure destruction and the whole planet goes to shit great
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So no longer is it a place where through military, we can demand that you use our US dollar or demand that you use our Chinese one.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it has to feel like the next reserve currency is organic and it comes from a political space.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it was, it had, it's challenges along the way.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it bubbly eventually,
17:06
[SPEAKER_01]: it became accepted right and if you have this plan from the beginning and you have the the first million Bitcoin, like Satoshi does and as your plans started to become more successful and adopted and it seemed like it was becoming more and more feasible that this was going to work.
17:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You could have been acquiring it along the way to make sure that now you have instead of 1 million Bitcoin, you have two or three or four million.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when the dollar falls and Bitcoin does become the world reserve currency, you still have the most control over it and the most of it.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the fun thought experiment.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's true or not.
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Satoshi could be this benevolent superhero that we all hope he was.
17:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess the bottom line is like it doesn't really matter which is true.
17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The path forward for Bitcoin is inevitable.
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's apolitical.
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: infrastructure is being set up all over the world from all the major institutions and at this point we've already reached the inflection point where there's no going back, a Bitcoin is for sure going to be a World Reserve currency.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people won't say it.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people don't say that because especially politicians and leaders and Larry Fink and Howard Lucknick and stuff like that, they're not going to say that even though they probably feel that it is going to be because right now they have a responsibility to preserve the U.S.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: dollar.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think most people understand what's happening.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a great kind of overview and it makes me think like, you know, in this world of, you know, being a philosophically driven in a sense that, you know, this is the new form of money, it's the reserve current to the world.
18:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that there's credence or like right to exist for altcoins?
18:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Things like Ethereum, Solana, and then so down the risk spectrum, or are you what would be called a Bitcoin maximalist?
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm out of maximums at all.
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Bitcoin, this is like blockchain was just like really cool invention that allowed us to have consensus in a decentralized way, and that's immutable, and that's very valuable for many use cases.
18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Money was just like Satoshi's, he thought was like the most important thing that we, we the people,
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: need to have sovereignty over.
19:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like he created blockchain for the most important thing that he thought should be disrupted first.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But then like there's a lot of other great use cases for a decentralized systems with transparency, a transparency, an individual governance or governance that at least is voted on by the people in consensus.
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when you think about, especially as we move forward with automation and AI, like I believe
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: that anything any system, any organization, any application that can efficiently and effectively be governed without a huge central corporation running things should and will be.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: When you think about the economics of decentralized applications, let's say there's a good argument for both sides of the coin on Uber or Airbnb or something like that.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one, people will say it should always be centralized because a centralized team is what has allowed Uber to scale and grow to the scale that it is today and be so successful
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe ride sharing doesn't need to have food delivery and, and, and, and, and, you know, Robo Taxi's flying through the air and stuff like that, like Uber's expanding to maybe like, if you could just disrupt ride sharing on a decentralized application, meaning removing the middlemen and allowing that 30% profit that Uber takes to be shared by both the passenger and the driver to make the driver make more money on every trip and have the passenger pay less for every trip.
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you open a ride sharing aggregator app that,
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: that's Uber, Lyft, Grab, all the other ones.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there's this decentralized Uber, let's call it Dober.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And you open Dober, and you want to get from your house to the airport, and on Uber, it's at 100 bucks, but in Dober, it's only 80 bucks, right?
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The driver makes more money, you pay less money, and which driver wouldn't want to use that application, and which passenger wouldn't want to.
20:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You get the exact same experience, because no one ever calls the 1,800 Uber to talk to customer service, it doesn't need it, right?
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, no, no, how big does this do berget as far as going to the future of full automation and they could, right?
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the devs of people who created it, they, if founders have 10 or 20% of this apply the token, so if they continue to innovate and develop and ship, then the economic value of the ecosystem goes up.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're incentivized just like any other founder to increase the enterprise value of the application.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they do have incentive to continue to innovate and things like that.
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: For the majority of people in the world, they're going to take the option that it costs less or the drivers are going to take the option that pays a more.
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So long as this experience is virtually the same.
21:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that these are good examples like Airbnb and Uber and others of these peer-to-beer services that currently have middle men extracting value from that situation.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that you have decentralized applications.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little bit disappointed that we don't have
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: more of that like like we don't have any of these like none of them have really taken off on maids dream yet but i think that has a lot to do with this experimentation that we've been doing since a theory existed of how do you get the tokenomics right how do you get the economics of the the revenue and the value distribution most of the time these people have built these decentralized applications
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They build them with a centralized mindset, meaning that, hey, we're going to raise money in equity.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we're going to sell this token.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, we're going to earn revenue, but we're going to earn revenue.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to keep it into the equity side of business.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: The token has no real utility.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, people are starting to realize you hear it more and more from the hyper liquids and assters and we're going to take the revenue that we earn and we're going to put it back into the token so that the only economic value is in the token model.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The equity side has no value in the business, right?
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, so all the revenue, the real-world adoption, that's going back into buying the token, hopefully burning, or redistributing through rewards, or whatever, they're creating one token economy versus what people have been doing, the greedy founders who either were naive,
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: stupid or whatever, but they were having one business that had two economic models, which means when you get revenue from doing sales or whatever
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Where does it go, right?
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're diluting that by going 50, 50 or here a lot of people say, oh, we're going to do 10% revenue by Vax.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what the fuck did you sell?
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why did you create two different paths for investors, one on equity side and one on token side?
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Never before crypto did we ever have a business model that had two different pools of people to take care of, right?
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was only, it was very easy for a centralized company with equity to understand how that equity is valued.
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just what is the revenue and the profits of the company that goes back into the share price.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but now you have people who are creating these economic models where they're now having two pools of people take care of and they often ignore the token model.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So the adoption has come, I think, from a lack of understanding how to build good economic models, lack of understanding of how to do governance,
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: blockchain is supposed to be just infrastructure, right?
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's all it's supposed to be, right?
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: People should be using these decentralized apps like Dober, for example, and it should feel just like a webteal application, right?
24:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They shouldn't have to connect their wallet and have to sign all these things that they don't understand what they're signing and have these 12 word passwords phrases that they lose it.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You're money's gone and you're out of luck.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: these things are very intimidating for most people coming into the space and they don't feel like a nice user experience.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as we're starting to build technology that abstracts away that complicated web three part from the end user, then infrastructure can feel like infrastructure again.
24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that we just know is there.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We trust that it works well and we don't have to interact with it.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a bridge, the roads, the foundation of a house.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the structure of a skyscraper, whatever.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to check the integrity of these things before we use them.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We just trust that they're solid, sound, and that they give us the ability to build these things on top of.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where I think that we're heading.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Bullrun this season, we're just starting to see, again, what the first thing of destructive blockchain technology was for, money.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now we're seeing money technology being adopted into the application level.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This season feels like we're last seasonality, last bull runs.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We had all these narratives of like, we're going to disrupt gaming.
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to disrupt, you know, social media.
25:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to disrupt whatever it was.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was too far of a stretch of people's imaginations to come at the time.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I don't understand why we need these things.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whatever.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But now,
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going back to the roots of like how do we build applications to disrupt money again, but this time it's the money infrastructure, it's the rails, it's the banks.
25:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now we're saying DeFi, like with the most TVL we've ever seen, the most users we've ever seen on DeFi.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And when people use good DeFi applications, they're thinking themselves, when they finally get it, they're like, why the hell would I ever go to a bank again, take out a loan, like you go
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: phenomenal experience, right?
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, looking, now you see all of the major players like Swift and everyone else upgrading their antiquity infrastructure of three days to do a bank, you know, settlements or and a hundred bucks or whatever.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they're going on chain because it's more efficient and faster and more more transparent and it gives them all tools that they need.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So everyone's upgrading to essentially defy and blockchain reals right now.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think
26:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first kind of application that people it's it's easier for people to grasp and understand because again it's it's kind of just modernizing the traditional finance of a structure putting on chain and a lot of it's not fully decentralized some of it is but again people will also eventually realize if they have someone like a centralized like a bank that's building infrastructure.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a decentralized competitor of it, but the UX is very similar.
26:44
[SPEAKER_01]: People are going to start using the decentralized version why because it's got better fees, more yield, no KYC, you can use it from anywhere in the world.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to trust essentialize entity.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So eventually, as people start to get more comfortable using blockchain and the idea of it, they will start to use these things more in mass.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll start to see more adoption.
27:03
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you hit the nail on the head and I think that this is this is the defy bull run that we've all been waiting for.
27:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in the last bull run, it felt like defy didn't really run as hard.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in 2020, you know, all right, I would just say the defy summer 2020.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was a really good time 2021 a little bit, but really haven't seen defy catch a serious serious bid.
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you're right.
27:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like defy is built to meet this moment.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: like the institutional grade regulated sorta, you know, industry meeting crypto, it's like defy is right there to meet the moment, the RWA stuff, so I'm super optimistic on it, and I think also what's driving a lot of interest and flows and
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is the market structures evolving, right?
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have these ETFs that are coming online.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the Bitcoin ETF was like the most successful ETF that was like was ever launched by like several different metrics and AUM and it's the most profitable, profitable ETF for Blackrock.
27:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the fastest ETF to like 80 billion under management did it five times faster than the VOO, which is like S&P 500, like crazy, you know, success of these ETFs, but the thing that's on the horizon is these altcoin ETFs, which, you know, our community is really excited about because the SEC kind of under Trump now has come out and said we're going to take a different view of the last SEC, 180.
28:23
[SPEAKER_00]: and we're going to bring the altcoin market to the public markets, and so we're going to basically give you generic listing standards for all these different altcoins.
28:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see you not in the long out.
28:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to get your take on this.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this big?
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a McGuffin?
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it, you know, going to fall flat on its face?
28:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is getting altcoins into these ETF rappers do?
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And how are you thinking about it?
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's interesting because for
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone like myself, or you who've been in the industry for like, you know, at least a season or more, we've had enough time to kind of digest what these different use cases are for these different blockchains or these different tokens or whatever, but for the majority of the world and most money that comes into these ETFs.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: they don't understand anything past Bitcoin.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And they barely understand Bitcoin now.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of them are still trying to learn from their financial advisors right now.
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you got the sales guys at BlackRock going and playing golf, they're old money people.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And they've had 12 golf sessions in like just now, they're starting to get uncomfortable with the idea of what is Bitcoin, right?
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they're going to start allocating 1% of their portfolio to it this year, right?
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, okay, well, let's see how it goes this year.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Next year, if it's doing well, we'll allocate another one or two percent, right?
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They move at a racial pace, these old school guys.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This old money is, they also have so much money that it's just not really interesting for them to take the risk anymore.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're just living great off their interest alone.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That block rocks already making them of six or eight or 10% a year.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is, like they see no need to be super risky.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing that I was asking you to remind me about later, the thing is that, like,
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: even for people who don't get felt like if you're old and you've got a hundred million dollars or a billion dollars like you don't really get full much on in the money world anymore like you're good and like you're not worried about missing the next hundred acts or something it's like you've already made it you've already made it and like your interest alone is keeping you like you're not spending ten million dollars a year on your interest like it's it's fine there is something about just the interest of Bitcoin and someone who's been
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: you know 29,000 or 50,000 and like they keep thinking about it and they've been watching it for a couple of years or even people who have it, like price is a real interesting thing.
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what I was alluding to earlier is now that we're coming into price discovery in all time highs.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If Bitcoin moves up into the right like in a linear fashion nice and slow that has since 2022 it doesn't really give people that that sense of urgency to like finally deploy right but when we go into what we're expecting to happen over the next few months right now and this seasonality of Q4 after post having year Bitcoin doesn't do a linear progression it starts to go parabolic and so to altcoins right and.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That phomo of not putting money into it.
31:11
[SPEAKER_01]: When these markets start moving at like total market cap starts increasing by like 5% a day or 10% a day because Bitcoin's going up at one or two or three percent every single day for months on ends.
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: and eth is doing like four or five six percent and then all coins are doing 10 20 30 percent of the day for literally like a month or six weeks straight temptation that phomo is is such a contagious kind of feeling.
31:41
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things I've been battling with this season was like, is there enough money in the economy from 99%.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Who have been struggling since COVID, struggling with inflated prices, wages not keeping up, credit card debt is at all time highs right now.
31:58
[SPEAKER_01]: People are sort of default on car loans more than ever.
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: The housing markets in big trouble, interest rates have been high for a while.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not in a quantitative easing state yet.
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't had massive injection of stimulus, although Trump just said he might do with a $2,000 steamy check, which would be amazing.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That would remind us of the COVID stimulus, which boosts it our markets.
32:19
[SPEAKER_01]: When I start to think about it, what do we need for parabolic awkward and rally explosion?
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You need retail money to come in because institutions aren't going out and buying like $2 million mean coins, right?
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're just not gonna do that.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: retail will, right?
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that interesting thing about that phomo factor is like even if right now you're living paycheck to paycheck and times have been hard since COVID and you don't really have money to go to the movies or to take your family out tonight's dinner or whatever.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But you start to see like, altcoin mania and like on your timeline of whatever social media you're on, you just see like this guy put in, you know, a thousand bucks into something and out with three million.
33:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's the story of a lot of your winners happening every single day on social media.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like the lottery, like it seems like your average Joe is like making generational money on gambling on meme coins or some low cap altcoin or whatever.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that temptation is too much for even people who can't afford to do it to go take out a line of credit to go sell their car, mortgage their house.
33:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like we're describing a casino in a sense.
33:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I feel like, unfortunately, they think that might be where we're headed.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, unfortunately for most people, because it doesn't end well for those kind of people who follow them and toward the top, right?
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And then think it's just gonna keep, it's a first cycle, or they haven't learned from previous cycles, but that's what, that's what usually creates these blow-off tops.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: When everyone just goes all in, mortgages the house, cells of kidney, whatever, that's when the markets are exploding and ripping, and that's your top signal, right?
33:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, when I really think about it,
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I do feel like that's going to happen.
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: For a while there, I was just worried that we weren't going to have a parabolic season.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that it was just going to continue to go until like slowly rolled over and then we ended the business cycle, the quitting dried up, tightening conditions started happening again.
34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we just got this like very like anti-climatic bull run.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that we're going to see another big bull run.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question is how long will last, right?
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't have to answer to that.
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always thought, I've always like,
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always hated technical analysis.
34:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was just the strategy for crypto-brows.
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But the more that I see people who have really studied charts in patterns, they seem to be fairly accurate with things, maybe not on day trading so much, but more on general timelines and things.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess what we're doing is just we're kind of expecting that we're going to see very similar pattern to the previous cycles where this cycle ends at the end of this year.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of planning for that, you'll really know if you feel very rich and you know everyone that you know that's never going to crypto starts asking again, Coinbase app is at number one, fandom app is number two, whatever.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably a pretty good signal to start selling and taking out a least half of whatever it is.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, all the things I was going to say too is that on the Institute, so that's a retail side.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the phone will also exist for institutions and even hide out their individuals.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when you have been exploring or dipping your toes into the crypto space for a while, and you ask them about the altcoin dates, which I was trying to write.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was going to, I was going to be my next question.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the investment banks are starting to feel foam on this stuff, I think.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: for sure, and that's why Vanguard had to open up because too many other clients were like, what the fuck?
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not gonna let us do Bitcoin, then we're gonna go to BlackRock.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that phomo affects everybody just to some extent and when Bitcoin goes from 125, and then
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: By the end of October it's at 150 everyone's going to want to get jump in at that point and so the institutional like these digital asset treasuries for all coins and the all-point ETFs I guess when you start what you have to question it was like I told you that like people are only starting to understand Bitcoin so I think the individual ETFs Cardano ETF or Solana one or so we won
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that they're going to be wildly successful.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know that people are like, or like, get any of that comfortable up the risk curve, but I do think that they're going to want general all-point exposure.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And since they don't really understand all points, I think that these basketball ETFs, and maybe a basketball match or something like that, they'll do really well.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because people want exposure to like,
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: the top altcoins, right?
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But they don't really, that's where the S&P does well, the other indexes do well, because they don't want to bet on a single horse, they just want the basket of things, right?
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, okay, like, I'll allocate 5% of my entire portfolio to Bitcoin, and let's do another two or three percent to altcoins.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And just put it across the top 10 altcoins or whatever, right?
36:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Top 20, whatever it is.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think these baskets will do well and subsequently the assets that happen to be in the baskets will do well.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's probably going to be like one or two major asset treasury companies in each country that actually can do well as like individual asset ETFs like Solana or Sue or whatever.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think the smaller ones will actually be able to continue to raise and capture more value.
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that any of the smaller ones at have launch will be consolidated amongst the top one or two.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's why I see it playing out.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it may be like the next cycle, and five years from now or four years from now, we'll have a lot more interest in these altcoins as people start to understand them.
37:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
37:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's super, super interesting.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm thinking that we're going to get a lot more of these products for, you know, public market investors who are going to see all this crypto stuff moving much higher and they're going to want to be able to play a part in it.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love what you said there.
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I wanted to kind of go back on and talk about real quick was like now that we've got the I bit sort of blackrock ETF you're seeing a really deep liquid options market.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm starting to unfold there.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that Bitcoin's never really had.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And these options just kind of got approved earlier this year.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've got now some interesting data.
37:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was looking at the open interest by strike price.
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's like a huge, huge, huge cluster of open interest.
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: at the $100 strike price for this ibit, which makes sense.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this round number.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And so basically, it's showing a lot of these investors have calls that they've bought at $100 per ibit.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And that would equal $175,000 per bitcoin because of the ratio of ibit to bitcoin.
38:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I think each ibit or
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: There's about one Bitcoin is always fixed.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like 1,755, I bit shares or something like that.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And so long story short, the market thinks, again, that's just a 40% move from 125K.
38:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a 40% move.
38:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And that could happen this year in Bitcoin, but like if we get that sort of move again, I'm super optimistic that all coins are going to Really really take a big rip.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like your thesis as well kind of about, you know, this could be the blow off top period.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw Paul Tudor Jones on CNBC this morning talking about
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks we're going to be getting some kind of blowoff top here as well.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks he said this could be 1999 where it's like it just gets crazier and crazier and crazier until you don't even believe it and then all of a sudden things, you know, the rug gets pulled.
39:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So it could go either way and
39:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll see nobody's got the nobody's got the crystal ball, but what's kind of, um, you know, outside of, you know, Bitcoin ethereum those fundamentals, are there any like altcoins that you think have that staying power that's going to last the next cycle, you know, and you could, you know, disclose if you have exposure or not, but you have like one or two hot picks that you think.
39:39
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, might change the world might last through the next cycle.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot, you know, there's this, you know, because just think about like all of the successful major corporations around the world and even the ones that compete in the same space, you know, and like there's a ton of them and and that's in each country because crypto and infrastructure is a global product.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You have so permissionless anybody could launch one too.
40:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone could launch one.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: People are using Ethereum and Solana and Sue and everything else.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They're using them in every country in the world.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there's so much room for so many things to exist and be successful.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: For, you know, like imagine you have, imagine that someone takes a, let's say, a chain that
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't really have any adoption.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say that it's it's a car dono or it's polka dot or it's like, you know, Algarand or something like that.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these chains are like really good and capable, but like just no one uses them because like he goes chains.
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they didn't, yeah, but all I would take.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: for that chain to become economically valuable and have like more economic value than any other chain, is one major, let's say TikTok goes on Cardano and puts all transactions on chain.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Now as a Cardano does more real transaction volume than every other chain in the world because one player decided to be more transparent put everything on chain.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So you never know what's going to happen.
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, and then things like Cardano will probably exist forever because people believe in the cult.
41:12
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like no one's building on Cardano really, but it's still super valuable and people believe that it's going to be the next Bitcoin or whatever.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's interesting thing to you too, about these public speculative markets, is that people continue to, like the token will have values as long as people are willing to buy it and sell it in a price.
41:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you ask about a few of them,
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, anyone who watches my channel or follows me knows that I'm I'm very, very bullish on sui.
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
41:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, like, I've been following that story closely.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's sui was was was built by the former meta team, right?
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The guys at Facebook and stuff with Zuckerberg.
41:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Two billion dollars of R&D went into creating a project, Libra or DM, which is with one that Facebook got shut down.
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So two billion dollars of R&D went into building that to create and they were ready to launch and go live right and and if they were allowed to do that overnight Facebook whatever the biggest bank and it's in the financial institution in the world eight built like four billion customers whatever access to transactions on their chain so
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're doing that and you're about to go live, you better be super confident that your technology is not going to have exploits or errors, and it's going to be very easy to use.
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And so two billions of dollars went into building this infrastructure and building their own coding language and smart contract, language and parallel processes, processing, and all this stuff.
42:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like,
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: When that DM got shut down, you had several teams that were splinter from that, but like missing labs, which built Sui, is the main team that built the main language, built miss the infrastructure with engineers and so.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They're building this whole technology stack that allows anyone to build on-suite with launching storage and more transactions per second than anywhere we need, the lowest latency for any financial products to go on where you don't have to, or settlement happens basically instantly.
43:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have a really strong business development team, huge treasury, a great technology, a counter-straction.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think, like,
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a lot of people who win at the application space, right?
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like Solana is like a really good one.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Sui is a really good one.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are like the best.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of like B and B is going to be valuable because because CZ and Binance.
43:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They're buying back like a billion plus dollars of tokens every quarter and burning them.
43:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just have this crazy economic fly wheel of number go up forever as long as Binance is profitable.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And Binance will always be profitable in perpetuity.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even if Dex is like aster and at taking significant market share.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Binance will always still have 50, 60, 50% or more of the total trading volume that happens on anything and they're expanding everything they have a limited resources and they continue to add value to the B&B token and network.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't see that slowing down anytime soon.
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are all the multi-generational, they'll never, I don't think they'll ever go out of business and they'll ever shut down.
44:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a future of the internet as these layer ones and I think those are good bets for now on the application layer.
44:23
[SPEAKER_01]: who knows, who knows, one of the things that we're working on though that I think is really interesting is so capital formation, you know, like, how does a whole process of these companies getting funded, distributing tokens to a retail investor, institutional investors, transparently, and a regulated fashion, and trying to get these new crypto startups to have tokens,
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: to be more transparent and more reliable.
44:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The same way that a company goes public on the New York soccer change when they've got investment bankers and people that are supporting the equity and market-making and price and stability, that is probably going to happen with our markets too.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to find really great, awesome companies who have existing revenue, business models, killer teams, who want to put their business on chain, who want to switch to the economic model to value creation and the token side of the business,
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so right now, one of the things that we're working on right now is doing that.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I can't say too much right now, but like, you know, when I told you in 2021, we started making money, again, that's when we launched PayNetwork, which was like one of the top two launch pads in the space, since the bear market, we've been thinking about how does this industry evolve for like ICOs and ICOs and how do we, that's why I moved back to America was actually how do I bring the American markets into this capital formation segment.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so we've made some pretty good progress on that and hopefully, but the end of the year, you'll start to see
45:48
[SPEAKER_01]: institutions, wall streets, public police and companies, I'm doing these crowdfunding models and launching them to take them public.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, that's going to be incredible.
45:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully we could have you back on the show sometime very soon to talk about that as you guys kind of come out of stealth and we would love to kind of dig in on that.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle, where can folks follow along with your journey?
46:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We greatly appreciated your time today.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure everybody knows where to kind of follow along.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Kyle, C-H-A-S-S, I'll say, so you can find me on Twitter or X-That one, Kyle, underscore Shousei.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: My YouTube is Kyle Shousei Crypto, or if you just go to my name, Kyle Shousei.com, you've got all the links there and stuff like that.
46:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I make daily videos on YouTube Monday through Friday, post, relentlessly on X, and yeah, that's really what you can find me.
46:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
46:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll thank you so much and cheers to price discovery mode cheers to a good bull market And we'll talk again soon everybody at home listening.
46:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for tuning in That was the inside look of a long-term crypto veteran crypto Titan here a painting a very optimistic picture for where we're going So I thank you everyone and tune back in next week for another great guest