Latest / Two Personal with Joy Taylor / The Man Behind Kehlani, SZA, and Ariana Grande's Biggest Songs: Khris Riddick-Tynes Opens Up

Transcript

The Man Behind Kehlani, SZA, and Ariana Grande's Biggest Songs: Khris Riddick-Tynes Opens Up · Two Personal with Joy Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When have you ever given me a compliment?
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: I said, you're growing. I said, your teeth like nice?
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: No, you did does know what you said? I grew
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: talked you group your engine.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: First of all, you call me short, okay, and then
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: you then you did not talk them it my sing.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: You said, Hey, it's welcome too, Personal.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Very excited to have my friend in studio today who
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: is totally not nervous to be here, Chris Ritick times.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: He is someone who has definitely shaped your opinion on love.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: If you listen to music, makes a lot of love songs.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Grammy Award winning songwriter, producer, executive producer, A and R
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: executive works in music, in business, creative leadership, huge career,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: h a reputation for putting the song first, helping artists
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: bring their vision to life, and navigating an ever evolving industry.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Grew up in La and.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Is one of the most respective voices in the music
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: scene and has seen every angle.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: So Chris, welcome to Personal.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: So I want to ask you as someone who has
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: absolutely no musical ability whatsoever, which I think I told
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: you the first time that we met, because we were
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: in your studio and I was like, yeah, this is amazing,
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Like I wish I could do one musical thing. I
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: took voice lessons, guitar lessons, piano lessons for years.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I can't do nothing. I could play, like it's what
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I could do.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: We really committed to this being a musician.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not. No, that was my parents. Yeah, my
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: father believed that I was going to be a music
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: start it. So he is not a talent scout. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: sang in church, you know, when I was little white
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: church at black church, black church, actually both, but I
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: was I was cute, you know what I mean.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, like she's praising the Lord. But
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: then I have and they were like, all right, that's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: not a different way.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: For you to.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: That's not something else for you to do. But I am.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I'm always interested in the creative process of music.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: One you are starting, like to work on an album.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: When you do, you start with like the first song,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: where does that begin?
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, it's important to start with a vision, okay,
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: and like what are you trying to say?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: What are you going through?
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: What is the what's the topic of a conversation. I
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: think an album in particular is like reading someone's journal, Right,
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: So it's kind of.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Like you want to have a landscape of where we're going.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: So when you look at somebody like you know, obviously
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: like the Kailney album, it was a very introspective, vulnerable
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: look into her life and and I think that's yeah,
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: I think that's just starting with just conversations, your real
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: life experiences and we kind of just all.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Put them in a pot. Right.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: It may not all come from her, it may come
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: from me, it may come from another writer or whatever.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: And then you just kind to disseminate from there.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: So you have a vision for the album. You want
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: to tell a story with the album. Okay, So once
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: you go through that process, which I imagine is probably
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, is it tough?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Like all this seems very icky to me because I
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: am not a vulnerable I'm not a vulnerable person. Part
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: of this, like podcast is pulling kind of vulnerability out
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: of me. But I mean I worked in an industry
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: where that's just not like there's no crying in baseball,
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So you know, in the artistic or creative space, vulnerability
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: is almost in my opinion, necessary, Like I can think
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: of artists who have had albums and I'm like, oh,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: they were going through.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Some shit, Yeah for sure, and you could feel it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're looking for the vision, Like is that
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: a vulnerable process?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: It is, because if the artist isn't vulnerable, there is
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: really nothing to really pull it out of. I mean,
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: so there's some artists right who are just amazing singers,
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Like you have a Whitney Houston write and someone can
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: write her a song. They could have been going through that,
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: but she has the ability to tap into whatever her
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: connection to that song may be and sing the hell
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: out of it and you believe it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: But for the most part, like in today's age, where
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: artists are very involved with writing, like someone like Kilani
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: or someone like a Sissor or someone like you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: whoever may be, they they write from there.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: They gotta feel it. Yeah.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Have you worked in or been in a studio where
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: the artist wasn't feeling it? And it's kind of like, yeah,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: it's a what is that process?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Like can't force creativity? So you just gotta but it's expensive,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: you just can't.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: You just can't like kicking it in a lit like you
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: charge to walk.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Through that door.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think it's just sometimes it
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: just doesn't land. I mean, the crazy thing about music
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: is that we create something from nothing every day.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Right, there is no there's no task at hand, Like.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: It's just you gotta pull from the sky, you gotta
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: pull from God. So sometimes you just might not be there,
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: so you just gotta go take a walk, touch some grass,
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: come back tomorrow.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's wild. That's uh. It's music is so interesting
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: in that way.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Like you but you do have a lot riding on it,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Like you got to put together an album.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: You do, but you just gotta It's like being a coach, right,
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Like you only got how many months, six months, seven
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: months to get prepared for a season.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that. I don't know.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: But like how do you make a championship team in
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: that amount of time? You just have to know how
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: to pull the strengths and you know, give everybody has
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: their different incentives to push themselves to the max to
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: be able to win a championship.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So and you got to know your personnel.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: You got to know your personnel.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you do use a lot of sports analogies. Yeah,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: tapping into my sports side a little bit, what is
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: your connection to sports?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I play sports growing up, you know, elementary.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Junior, high, high school, and you were born and raised
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: in La I.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Was born and raised in La. Yeah.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: I went to say Her High School and I transferred
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: to St. Bernard, so I graduated from Burner.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Those people exist, Yeah, people exists. Yeah, people people do
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: uh to live here. You've won a lot of awards,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Ms Kaiwani. This is a been nominated a bunch. You've
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: worked with baby Face, You've worked with Ariana Grande. Did
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: what did that woman call her? That had me bent
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: the very Obviously hispanic areon they were so mad about that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: This is a separate joke, but this woman on one
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: of these ridiculous talk shows was mad about how woke
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: wicked was because she thought that Ariaganda Grande was not
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: a white but she she is. Grande is Italian and
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: that's how languages work. Okay, So you are also an
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: executive music producer on Forever. What is what's that process
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: been like? Is that that's a lot of pressure?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, it's part of the game.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: I think the most challenging thing when it comes to
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: TV and film is that you're creating something for a
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: fictitious character. So the artist isn't necessarily real right, Right,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: So you got to kind of say, all right, there's
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of brainstorming behind what is the artist's sound
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: going to be, what is the what is this producer's
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: sound going to be?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: What is what is the story going to be?
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: So it's a little bit different because it's your You've
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: got to make it up like it's not you.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Know, it's not coming from a person's experience exactly exactly. Yeah,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I mean do you dive really into the script on that?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah? You have to. Yeah, so you have to.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: So you got to figure out, Okay, this is just
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: character's background. These are things that in real life people
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: that I know that may have come from this kind
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: of environment or have these kind of experiences. These are
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: the kind of songs that I kind of think that
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: they would do, and then you kind of just try
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: to tap into that.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: That's so important.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I love a well scored movie or show
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: because the music is, when it's done correctly, it adds
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: to what's already happening emotionally.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the show.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Sorry if I sound funny, I have my bracist and
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: if you missed that episode, I'm wearing bracist Now they're
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: in Viciline so if I'm the thing, that's why it does.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: But like I can think of moment like I mean,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Gladiator are obviously like for one, and I'm like Panther,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Black Panther, Like there's i mean even going on and on,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: but like there's there's moments where like that that song
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: hits and it completely changes whatever's already happening in the scene.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: And that show is in La which I am like,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: I'm in La Nerd. I've lived here for ten years,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: so i like seeing shows that are in legs.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh I go there.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like a little bit of Hollywood to me,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: being that you were born and raised in LA is
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: it important that you like properly put together. I mean,
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: obviously you take everything you do seriously, but you know,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: it's it's your home.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're talking about for the film, so yeah, I mean,
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of people are fans, and I
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: think they're excited to see the growth of the characters
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: and everything. So like I see, obviously there's a lot
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: of correlation between myself and the main character. So I
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: just try to just tap into what a younger Chris
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: would do, you know.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I think that's the.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. Let's talk about younger Chris.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Because you are a writer. Yeah, and your I mean
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: your songs. A lot of the stuff that you write
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: is very what is the word I want to use,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: because here's the thing about Chris. He can hold everything
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: I say in this interview against me.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So I've gotta be very careful.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: This is what happens when you have friends on I'm like,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: all right, let me see where I go here. Your
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: your songs obviously move people very deeply, I hope.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah they do.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: What do you mean, like, so you know they do?
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Like there are award winning songs you work with, like
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: huge artists.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: They you know that they do. I'm not gonna allow
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you to do that.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: So the first compliments she's ever given me that is
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: not and I'm just glad that she didn't use to
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: write a trump that felt very hard film.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that's not true.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: But if you guys watched the show, you know I
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: don't believe in complimenting straight man.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So it's straight man. No, oh my gosh, that's crazy.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: No you don't you guys, Well, let's see how you
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: handle it. That was the first compliment.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you you welcome, appreciate it if.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: You jump out the window.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: The reason I don't compliment straight man, is because y'all
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: do you don't.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: First of all, you don't get complimented enough, So why
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: would you compliment as more?
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Because when you do, first of all, that's not gonna
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: be my job. This is that's not my mission.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So one side of.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Friendship here, Uh what when have you ever given me
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a compliment?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I said, you're growing, I said your teeth look nice.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: No you did not.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I did. It was camera, No you did.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: That's no what she said.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I first of all, you call me short, okay, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: then you then you did not compliment my sea. You
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: said I told you we raceist and you said, did
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: you mean that?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: That's not a compliment. They were fine. I think you
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: needed them.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Fine is not a compliment. Don't write these none of
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: your songs. Okay, your career is gonna derail anyway. Yes,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: you make songs that move people very deeply. And okay,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: So the character is a lot like young Chris. It
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: was young Chris a lover boy.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: I think what's interesting about that is that when I
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: first started doing music, you know what professionally by fifteen sixteen. Yeah,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I had an experience love really, like, so I was
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: writing songs emulating love, and I remember I went to
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: go meet with Babyface's partner Antonio Dixon at the time
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: and played on these tracks and you know, he's listening
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: to them and he's like, the beats are cool, but
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: the song suck. Like writing, the writing stuck. I hadn't
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: really been through nothing, you know what I'm saying. I
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: hadn't really like had a heartbreak or anything like that.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: So like go live life, come back, you know whatever.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: So that I went out, lived life, came back. It
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: was maybe like six seven months whatever. And then you
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: know the little Jesus experience you get done in success.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know, puppy puppy lest Yeah, but just try
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: to tap into a real place. And it was enough
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: to gain attention from him to be like, Okay, I
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: see you got the you got the sauce to be
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: able to do it. And then yeah, as I got older,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I think I tried to. I went through one breakup
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: that was really bad when I was I don't know,
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, and that kind of fuel like Okay,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: you kind of start seeing music differently, right, Like you know,
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: have you ever been in the kitchen and your mom
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: or dad's been listening to like some old school stuff
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: and you like, turn that shit off.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: It might be boys to Men whatever, You just kind
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: of like whatever.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: But then you go through a breakup and you hear
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: that same song and then it's like your eyes are open,
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: like your third eyes open.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Like whoa, what the fuck? Like until the end of
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: the road is like hitting you differently, now, you know
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: what I mean. It's not just background noise.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: So I definitely think, yeah, as I've growing up and
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: dealt with life and had relationships and relationships starting relationship in.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: You're you're writing, definitely.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what I think is impressive about it, honestly,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: And this is a second compliment. Okay, so keep track.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: We're going to reel off the rails. I'm really getting
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: out of character now. When you are going through these things,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you don't dispose of the emotions and the memories like
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: someone like.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I would do.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like, all right, it's the vault
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: in the ocean. We don't need that, we do not
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: need to access that. But when you are a creator,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: you do.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you got to have a It's like being an actor, right,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Like you got to have a little bank that you
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: put it in and that you can compartmentalize, that you
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: can dig into and you need to and then close
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: it because you can't let it get out, right. You know,
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: it's like crying on demand or something like for an actor.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: But you've got to be able to tap in. So
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: you know, said artists might come in and they're like, yo,
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: I just went through whatever the case may be, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: I've got.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: To be able to pull from that place. You know.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: The cool thing that I learned from Babyface is that
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: it doesn't necessarily have to be all about romantic relationships.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Sometimes songs can be, you know, about a relationship between
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: a parent and a and a child, or cousins or
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: friends or whatever. But as long as it's written, there's
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: your cleverness of how you write it right, where if
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: it feels like love and people can associate a lover
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: with it, then you'll win.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: So there's examples like I didn't do this song, but
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I think it's a great song Moneylngs made for me.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Most people will think it's about.
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: Relationship, right, but it's about her son, right, so nobody
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: knows me like you do, nobody whatever, whatever or even
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: somebody like.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Does that change like how people receive it? Well, I
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: think like or do you let the audience do that?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Doesn't? In Fire has what is that song by Earth
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Wind and Fire, But it's it's about.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: No?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Remember you can't remember?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: I have I have I have perimenopausa, so I have
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: an excuse. Yeah, my brain just stops working. It's it's
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: like a slow song. Look up their top songs. I
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: literally just saw them in New York perform. But he
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: talked about it. It's a he talks about it on
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: quest documentary that the song is actually about an affair
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: and it's a love song that people always play at
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: their weddings and like want.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Play is about an affair, right, but this is.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Like a love song.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: So does it change it or do you you just
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: write it? And where it's how people receive it is
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: how they receive it.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: It's how they receive it.
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: It's just a cleverness sometimes, like I call it tears
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: on a dance floor, right, Like if it's it could
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: be a sad song that you're singing. But the track
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: makes you feel like it's your song in a happy
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: it's sung in a happy mood, so you're just like,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: you know, like Billy Jeans.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Billy Jean is a scandless ass song.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, motherfucker's going on the dance floor and but it's
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: fun though he's talking.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: About the child is not mine. She's a whole like
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: like was on some ship. But it just feels it
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: feels good though.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think love is the most powerful thing
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to write about?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I don't think songs really work unless
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: it's about love. I don't.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I don't really do. They have to be based in
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: that emotion in some way.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I think so. I think it has to tap into
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: love for someone or something.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: It doesn't necessarily have to be ooh baby baby like
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: it could be it could be like betrayal.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: It could be betrayal.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: It could be you know, something like fast cars, like
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: I love my parents, but you know, I love my
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: dad he's an alcoholic, or I love my mom, she's whatever.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: She's Tracy Chapman or the new version saying it's like
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: there's all these different things she's she's trying to escape from,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: but she is based in love is based you know, do.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: You do you have a particular type of artist that
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: you like to work with.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I like to write with artists who have who know
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: who they are. That makes it fun for me. I
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: think sometimes when artists are pure talent but really don't
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: know who they are, and they could just sing, or
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: they could just rap, or they could just you know,
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: it's like, Okay, well what direction are we going in?
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: Because then it starts feeling manufactured. And I think at
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: a time you can get away with that stuff. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: when we were growing up in music with pop music
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that, but I think now the kids
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: are so deveil is kind of like lifted with social
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: media and all that kind of stuff, where it's like,
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: you know, if you're not real, they're not going to
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: fuck with you.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: That's interesting that you feel that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Way, because a lot of what exists today is incredibly
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: manufactured and ai and but very plastic and how it
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: doesn't connect Well, No, I don't think so. But I
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: think the I think the philosophy that a lot of
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: people have these days is that you don't actually need now.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I don't believe this, but I think a lot of
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: people think that you don't actually have to put in
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: that kind of work to have hits.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You do.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's what what hits have happened that are
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: that are not? No, I'm talking about copyright, So I'm
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: not talking about some shit that goes viral on TikTok, right,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: talking about like an actual copy.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: But isn't that like that's the critique of music of
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: the music industry right now, right, is that everyone is
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: just producing for TikTok.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I think that's an outsider thing. I think that you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: the records that work are. Yeah, maybe there's a byproduct
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: that TikTok it goes viral on TikTok, But there's there's
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: more data showing records that go viral on TikTok that
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: don't correlate to streaming or consumption, right, Because I might
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: like ten seconds of it, right, I might like the
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: whatever drum break or whatever little part there is. I
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: could do the dumb ass dance too, but I'm not
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: going to listen to three minutes of it. Then you
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: get a record like folded or motherfuckers know the song
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: back to front to back, the backwards reverse remix, a
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: cappella unfolded version.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: You know, string quartet version whatever.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Like they they they they love the record and so
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you get you get those kind of correlations. It doesn't
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: happen that often, so virality doesn't mean the substances there. Yeah,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: it's the same thing with k pop. It's like the
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: k pop records are goal number one. Then we don't
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: hear those records on the radio or see them after
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: they come out, right, Like a lot of those things.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: The sustainability just isn't isn't there. Yeah, I mean our
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: conscemption in the States.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean kids, I my perspective on music
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: right now. And I know I'm like a whiny, cantankerous
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: uh revolutionary.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: But I do.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I do want. I think I want a little more
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: from music today. Yeah, Like there's so much going on
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: in the world, and I feel like films are doing
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: a decent job, for sure.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I think like visual artists are doing a good job.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: But music, and perhaps it's the way that the industry
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: is set up now, perhaps it's who's funding things now.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: But I want like a Bob Marley, I want a
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Janis Joplin. I want a Jimmy Hendrix, I want a
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Bob Dylan. I want like I need somebody, and I
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: think we probably had them, but I need somebody to
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: like fuck up the institutions a little bit. And it's
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I think that young people want that, but it doesn't
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: like where are they they'll come.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: I think that, you know, for a long time, there
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: wasn't a lot of mentorship happening, you know, like writing songs, right,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Like there's an art form to writing songs.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: There's just there's there's there's there's.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: A formula, right, and not to cheapen it, but there's
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: just you know, the great studied under the grates, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: I think at some point, especially in R and B,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: there was a disconnect where it was like, naw, we
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: want to focus on doing stuff freshure, but you lose
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: the ability to inject substance. So you'll get all the
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: swag and all the triplets and all the kind of
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: like the flow and it'll it'll feel good, but you're
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: not really saying shit. I think that I think that
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: people are getting tired of it. And I think that, like,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: you know, you're going to start seeing a lot more
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: people study under the grades and start understanding how to
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: write song from the heart just about whatever's going on
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: in the world or you know, cause there's a lot
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: of divisiveness. But yeah, I think it's going to happen.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I think it's gonna happen soon. I think it always
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: happens when there's like you know, yeah, well.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: There's unrest and crazy shit going on, and I think
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I hold music it's in such a high regard when
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: it comes to influencing culture, sure, and influencing movements because
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: music connects to everyone on a soul level. It's it's
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: a it taps past the spiritual like veil of human
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: beings are. And when you have a an artist that
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: can speak to a whole generation of people, particularly young
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: people who are forming their opinions and who they are
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: and like to your point about you know, Babyface selling
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: you to go live life, like, who are actually deciding,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: you know, what kind of experience they're going to have
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: in this world. Having those artists that are really speaking
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: real shit is important.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And I just you know, I mean, you're seeing you.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they don't exist, but.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: We're also older, right, So like the kid, there's there's
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: artists that like the kids just they they they ate
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: with right, Like I'm not saying.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: You don't resonate with them, but what what what concerns
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: me is that there's no pushback from the powers that
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: be on any of those artists, because that's what that's
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: what I need to see. When when they start getting
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: like world music, because jazz music is gonna send you
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: straight to help, then I know we got something. Okay,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, when they're like concerned
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: about the hippies, Yeah, then I know we got something.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was watching a documentary on the hippies.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: I said the US government was responsible for the hippie
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: movement and LSD, and that if you look at all
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: the major hippie artists, they were all children of corporals
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: and UH and US government officials, which is a crazy thing.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Good on that back. I don't know if those motherfuckers
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: are still in there.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: But because they needed, yeah whatever for the anti war movement,
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: they needed actual.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Cost to go in, so they put LSD in all
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the colleges.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they and then they then they took
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: it away from us because we were learning too much.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Almost as if you've done LSD, like why.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Would you say I've done I don't even drink you've
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: done no drugs drink. I did drugs yesterday. Uh, just
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: nothing nothing crazy, not LSD. I'm gonna do ayahuasca soon, man.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I heard that message.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Uh, it does.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: It's that's a I've heard that as well. But I
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: have some I have some demons I need to knock loose.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not like you. I don't keep a running stream
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: of my emotions.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: I've got I've got them stored away and like these
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: dusty filing cabinets. You know what someone said to me.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: They're like, I wonder what's gonna happen if you like,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: come back healed. I'm like, I'm fucked if I come
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: back healed. I can't be that healed. I only want
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: to like minorly healed. Yeah, just like a little bit.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: No, it's not.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, Well, I haven't told her yet that I'm gonna
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: do ayahuasca. I think she will, Uh, I think she'll
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: be in favor of it. But no, I can't be
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: all the way heeled. I need a function in the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: like in the world.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: So you just like keeping your therapist employee.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: No, she's very expensive, so no, I don't, and the
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: insurance is not covered.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I pay out of pocket. No, no, no, no.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I I need to keep an edge, like who hurts you?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Many?
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Many people? Many people are me, many people. I'm saying,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: it's not it's not. I don't know if it's really
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: a good idea for me to like just move through
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the world and like an exposed nerve. I still need
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: a little crunchy shell, just you know, on the inside
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: when on my home alone and no one's bothering me.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I want to be able to, like you cry, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: how often.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Do you cry?
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Not much?
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: Maybe I'm not afraid to cry, but if I feel it,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: I'll cry.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I can't cry. Really, I almost like,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: can't cry.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: You never cry before?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cride, of course, of cride. I just I don't.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not a big crier.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: But I also don't like to be really emotional in
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: front of other people because then it becomes about them,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: you know, because they're like they have to know what's
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: bothering you. Even if you're like I'm just upset, They're like,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: why are you upset? I don't want to tell you
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: why I'm upset, Or then they make like this whole
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: scene about it, and I'm like, I just can I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: just have my emotion and then just process this and
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: then move on with my day.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of its. Yeah, that's a lot.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So how do you have relationships?
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: This is I see what he's doing. It's fine. I
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: how do I have relationships?
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Not?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Well? Not well.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not an incredibly emotionally open person. I'm
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: a kind person. I'm a loving, an action person, but
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: I don't trust people on a very cellular level. Like
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I think my nervous system is probably a little fucked up,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: and you know, a certain amount of trauma will do
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: that to you. So yeah, I mean I think I
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: think I do my best, do my best, but yeah,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: it's not it's not great and I can't I can't
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: imagine it's great for people that I, uh date, got
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: to fix that. I mean, I think I'm trying. I
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: don't think I traumatize people. Sure no, but he was.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Blinking a lot.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Stop stop. I know I don't traumatize people. Okay, bro okay,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: but twice if you're in Milwaukee, I don't. I'll try
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: not to traumatize people. I will say that.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I've always been that way, though, Like I think, once
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I realized that I'm not really locked in, or I'm
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: not giving someone what they need, particularly emotional.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I don't try to be the villain in someone's sorry.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I'll say that.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I don't try.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, do we have any control for like
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: ever a villain in someone sorry? Are you a villain
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: in anyone sorry?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Probably? Sure? Yeah?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you try to be.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't intend to be?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Right, So I think, Look.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: There's there's an argument to be made that intent doesn't
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: matter if someone is harmed, right for sure? For sure,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: like the law uses that, I think a little too flippantly,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: but yeah, like if you if you heard someone you
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: hurt someone, intent.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Does matter when you're looking at first degree mark, this
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: is my law school kicking right.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a main factor.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: For the first degree.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Pretty decisive thing. Yeah, No, you're making points. Yeah, But
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I think, like in relationships, in any relationship,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: like parents, I think parents, like without a doubt, you
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: are going to traumatize your kid at some point, like
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: you're gonna do something that all of us have is
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: have something with our parents or like we have a story,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: some of us have more. But in general, like you're
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: just you're a human being. You're gonna make mistakes. You're
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: gonna your siblings, like friends, friendships like you don't. But
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: the I think looking back on how you moved through
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the world, why you did something should matter. Now that
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: might not matter to that person, but it I think
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: it matters as far as like how you process.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Something you saidt the same time writing a song? Is
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that what's happening?
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: So if I was to write it, okay, So if
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I came into your studio, I'm an artist who has
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: any musical ability whatsoever. I told you I could convince
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: myself that I could sing during COVID. I think I
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: told you, could you have a little studio at your house.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's not why. That's not for I do.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: That's for recording. That's recording music. It's not for singing.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I thought, stop, I.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Can't do that. She was like, she was like, hey, friend.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Studio, I'm coming into free back.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I'm coming into your studio, and I'm like, I'm gonna
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: write a song because we can't do a whole album.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: You don't have time for that, and I don't make
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: that kind of money. You're way too expensive.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: What where would you tell me to start?
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: I would start trying to figure out why you feel
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: the way you feel, and then we would right about it.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: That's the story.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a dark song.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: It's fine, people love dark songs. Yeah, it's a therapy session. Honestly,
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: all the sessions start as therapy sessions if they're not.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Starting as trust though, like for you, no, like you
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: have to really like as a very non trusting person
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: who's not open and I and most people who have
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: been through things are not trusting or open for sure.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: I mean I think that there's there's an element of
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: that said artist that comes to work. I mean, you look,
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: it's a for you to come work with me, right, right,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: So that means you're trusting that I'm going to deliver
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: something for you.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Are you're believing in my talent or whatever.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: But it's my job to make you feel comfortable enough
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: to open up to for us to be able to
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: get the material. It's gonna matter, right, and that may
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: be the first two three sessions. You don't really write,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: you just talk, You're go on a walk, you whatever
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: the case may be.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You know a lot of times artists have their safety net, best.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: Friend, whoever right you know, whoever may be be with them,
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: but you know, you got to really be able to
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: dig in because if you're not real with me, it's
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: not going to be real in the music.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: And I'm here to win. I'm not here to like
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: be your bff. You know what I'm saying.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: We'll be cool and we'll be friends, but you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: the music comes from your heart and your experience.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And especially for the caliber of.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Artists that I work with, it's like people know that
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: they want to hear, they want to know what's going on,
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: and I think the connection they have with their fan base,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: they want to get it out. It's just how do
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: I get it out? And that's my job to figure
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: out how they put it out there.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Have you worked with an artist before and you're like,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: they're completely bullshitting me for sure, And I'm just like,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: do you call them out or you're just like yeah.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: There's like you're not being honest until you're honest. Like,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: I just can't. I don't have to do this.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Like you know so, But he always says it like
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: with a smile, I don't have to do that.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I'll have to do that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Well, No, I mean, you've built yourself into this point
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: in your career where you have those you have that
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: ability to choose who you work with if and like,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: that's a that's a respect factor that any artists would
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: have to apply. Like, if you're gonna come in and
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: waste everybody's time, I'm sure you'll happily take their money,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: but only.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Up until a certain point it's just not worth it.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Well, you you want to put out good work on
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: your name, for.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: Sure, for sure, but I also want to tell good
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: stories and I want to help people. I want people
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: to be able to listen to the music and like
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: you said, it feel moved. And you know when you're
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: sitting in a stadium of thirty five thousand people and
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: they're like screaming the song on the top of their
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: lung and crying and oh, it's like it's the craziest feeling,
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: right Like. And so when you realize you have that
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: ability to do that, and that you're sending people home
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: with a gift that they can play forever and ever
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: and ever and ever and get them through things. I
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: mean I've had people like, yo, your song's got me
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: through a divorce or your my mom died or whatever
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: the case may be, and it's like, fuck, like, you know, I.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Was just writing about.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: As breakup, you know what I'm saying and some shit,
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: but it really connects to you and yeah, and you
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: you you you.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: It's a healing method and it's a healing source.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: So you know, I think that, like, you know, when
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: you see what music can do you, you don't take
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: it lightly.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: What was your first moment like that what I've seen
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: of like you're something you worked on and like you're
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: in a crowd and you see everybody singing it and
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: like knowing this is something that you.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Wrote or that you like produce in producing.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was probably we were young. It's probably the
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: Ariana stuff, you know.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: We mean Leon.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Thomas did that basically the majority of that whole first album,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: and then you know, she went on tour and you know,
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: the tours got bigger, and you know, I remember sitting
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: in a forum being like, fuck, like this is crazy,
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: like people, you know, people feel this stuff and it's
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: really touching people. So I think that was the first
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: time I saw it like in.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: A tangible Did you ever have to like check your
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: ego on that?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: No, because I'm not I'm not, like, I mean, I
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: know I'm dope, but.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: I I I'm also a happ humility, you know what
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, Like when you're around like for example.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Music is like music is such an interesting space, like
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: like it's so different than so many other art forms,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: and it's unregulated. It's unregulated as fuck, right, Like, as
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: much as I joke about not being able to sing,
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I'm so thankful that that was not my path. First
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: of all, if I could sing, I'd be a fucking
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: terrible person. And wow, yeah I wouldn't. I would not
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: my feet would not touch the ground. I would just
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: make men carry me around all day. Okay, Yeah, like this,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: if I could sing, if I could see it in
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: front of like a stadium of people and move them
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: emotionally with my voice. No, also sinister, I am a sinister.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I couldn't have a dragon, like God know what I
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: was doing. No ass, no ability to sing, no dragon
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: for this one. It's not it's not a good idea.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Gave me just enough tools to not terrorize the world.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: This self deprecation is not we needed to call your therapist.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Is not worry about me?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: No, I mean I just think it would be hard,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: like not hard, but like it's easy to start feeling yourself.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: When a whole stadium of people is fucking with your word, but.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: It's about your mentors.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: Like right, like Babyface has fifteen fucking Grammys to little
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: bajillion records, Like, yeah, he's.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: An absolute legend.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: I can get on, you know, I can get on
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: with my couple and be filling myself. But then you
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: look at him and it's like, dude, this dude carries
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: yourself with so much grace and so much like you
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, you wouldn't even the
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: best obviously.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You know, because it's who he is.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: But like if you sat down with him and had
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: a conversation with him and just broke bread with him,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: you wouldn't even realize that things. It doesn't define him,
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. But when you need to
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: turn it on and let niggas know, hey, this is
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: what I do, then they know they get it.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: But I think there's a responsibility.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: It's like Spider Man, where great power comes great responsibility.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: So I think you can't wield it around like an
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: asshole because it could be taken away from you.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it does the industry, it's very.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: But not even from the industry.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: God, God can take the shit away from you, right,
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: like your your ability to write, like you can be
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: the hot shit, and then you get too big for
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: your bitches and.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Then you can't catch another hit record.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: So humility is a thing that I think allows people
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: to want to keep working with you and give you
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: the opportunity to be successful and continue your journey.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: That's good. I don't really like humble.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: There's places to be humble in places.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Why don't like humility? Like for other people?
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Well, because you're a person like I, Well, I here's
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: how I'll say it. And then this pisses people off
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: all the time, But I don't care because I'm right.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: Anytime I've ever been humble for other people, it has
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: been to my own detriment.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: But you're the star, right, Like we're on the Joy
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: Taylor Show, right, it's about you, so you would be
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: the artist.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: So for me, I'm a producer, right, so I have
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: to I'm an executive, I have to wright.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: But when I was a producer, I was the best producer.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: But the thing is, like, you know you're the best producer,
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: but when you have talent, you can't make the talent
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: feel less than yourself. You're in a service job, right,
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: so like my job is to be of service to
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: said artist.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking about like being obnoxious, Like I'm still
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: in service. I'm in service to the audience for sure,
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Like I don't they don't owe me anything. I'm producing
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: something and hopefully they like it and watch it and
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: share it. And like I don't nobody owes Yeah, but
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: I think it supplies in life, like to everyone. And
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: I guess I just I struggle with the word humble
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: because it has all of these. I think I like
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: gracious more than humble. I'm nitpicking, but like, you're very
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: too many compliments. We're at three now, you're a very
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: gracious person. You're a gracious person and what else? And
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: you're gracious and talented okay, and vulnerable. You'd be a
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: monster when he leaves here, like, God, help with the
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: next person that he talks to. He's gonna be like, bitch,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: I wish you would say something to me, insane person. No,
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: but like I think everyone should have a little not
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: ego about them. But like, don't be humble for other people,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: because the people that want you to dim your light
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: are taking from you, Like you can shine as much
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: as you need to shine, while I do as well,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and there's enough light in the world to go around.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: But being gracious to people, I think is a little
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: bit different. I'm just nitpicking the words. I think we're
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: saying the same thing. But what was the best advice
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: that baby Face gave you, other than go get some
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: experience that.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: You can write between him and Antonio, it's just it's
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: just you. You don't know everything, no matter if you've
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: experienced a lot, you don't know everything. And I think
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: that's that's the thing for me. I'm always trying to learn.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: I'm always trying to like better myself. And you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: whether it's business, music, whatever the case may be. I'm
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: just constantly consuming and consuming, consuming and keep people around
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: me to help me grow and learn and teach me
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: new things. And you know, I think curiosity, when you
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: lose curiosity, that's when you, when you're your path to success,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: can shut down the bridge or fall.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's a it's a real fucking
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: problem that people think they know everything. Yeah, it's the
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: sign of It's the most certain sign of intelligence that
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: you are asking questions, and you're a curious person because
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: knowing that there's so much more that you don't know
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: gives you the ab ability to grow and still improve.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: And it also will keep you sharp enough to bring
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: people around that do things better than you. Yeah, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: that only adds to your own success. And I think
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: that's so often, particularly in this like world now where
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: you can just pop on the scene and get a
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: bunch of followers and get a little buzz and start
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: thinking like there's this sense of entitlement that is going
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: around that is like, as an old lady, I'm like,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: be fucking so for real, Like.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: This is the fifteen seconds of fame, right, It's like
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: but it's.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: It's it's sort of it is.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: But then they're like, no, I deserve this, Like we
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: all know that an overnight success is really ten years
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: in the making, right, Like you in order to become successful,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: you had to have done the work.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: But in this world where people.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Think that like one pop off viral moment is now
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: like I've made it, the sustainability of that is very.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Shape for sure.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: I mean I said, you go back to sports, right,
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: Like I've had artists who I worked with on the
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: executive side who had success. You know, they did one record.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: It blew the fuck up. They're everywhere. You see them
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: on the shade room. You see them everywhere, praise, praise, praise,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: But they didn't study the skill. So it's like shooting
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: a basketball like a grandma like this and it goes
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: into hoop and you're like, ah, I'm a fucking three
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: point Shooter's like, no, you're not.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: You're not.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: You're not the greatest shoot. You made one shot. Now
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: go make a free throw, not go make a corner shot.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Now go make you know what I'm saying, Now gonna
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: make something. Now drive, Now show me what you can.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: You go with your left hand like the ship that
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: the fundamentals they don't learn. So when you skip on
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: the fundamentals, you don't know how to repeat the success.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: And I always say, like, you know, playing sports in
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: high school, what's the first thing you do want or lose?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: Next day, you watch tape, you study the game from before.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Right, you understand where you fucked up.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: You also understand where you where you went right, you
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: understand where the other team fucked up. You understood the set,
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: understand where the other team went right, And I feel
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: like a lot of artists now you know that go viral,
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: don't do that. And so yeah, yeah, you're making money
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: on the on the road, or you're making money doing shows,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: but like we're in the business of music. You got
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: to have the music to make money, so the one
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: record can only carry you so far. So so yeah,
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: I think that's you know, that's going back to what
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: you're saying. It's like understanding and studying the craft, like
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: it's gonna bite you in the ass if you don't
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: do it at some point, because you're gonna, you know,
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: people are gonna want to see do the thing again
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: and you're like, well, I don't know how I did it.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean I think that's that's really great
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: advice for because I would ask you, like what advice
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: you would give young artists, But that is great advice
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: for young artists. It's like, you gotta you have to
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: really care about what it is you're doing, and that
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: that really applies to a lot of different things in life.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: With anything with business, you just got to be fucking
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: in true. The successful people love talking about themselves. They
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: love it, and they'll tell you the path to success
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: whatever you want to know, and you just got to
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: ask intruce for that ship Like so you know, I
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: remember asking Antonio and Babyface, you know, so how do
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: you how do you hand splits?
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Or how do you do this? Or what's you know?
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: When you're when you're dealing with you feel like somebody
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: didn't write as much as you. How do you do it?
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: And a lot of it is just it's really being
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: a diplomat. It's really being like, Okay's arguing over this
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: one song. Is that going to be beneficial when I
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: have twenty more songs to go or fifty more songs
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: to go with this artist or said person or whatever
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: the case may be. Like you got to learn how
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: to pick and choose your battles, like my mentor in
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: law and in real estate, like just as you know, dude,
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: how do you get to one hundred million? How do
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: you get to five hundred million? And motherfuckers will just
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: tell you, well, so you got to start.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Here and go there, do this, and do that.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: But you got to listen.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: But you gotta listen, but you got to ask questions, right,
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: Like you just got to be intrusive and just fucking
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: ask like finding people that do what you want to do,
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: and you just ask, like just blurt out questions because
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: people love to, like I said, one talk about themselves,
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: but two people who have done it one other people
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: to experience it too, right, And I think that's a
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: lot of times the fears that like, oh, people gonna
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: hate on me, they're not gonna want me to people
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: who are really doing it don't give a fucking They
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: understand that it's enough to go around for everybody. I
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: ain just one, you know. So that's why mentorship is important.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: Our peers can kind of not see the forest for
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: the trees, so it could be, but I'll make sure
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: for myself, Like I if people are doing deals, I'm like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: talk to me, like, let me help you figure out,
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: you know, how to structure it. This is what you
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: should look for, this is what you should move out.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: Like there's enough for us to go around for everybody.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: So but I think mentorship is like the main thing,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: and I always stress that, like finding people who are
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: above you or older who have done it, who have lived.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: No, that's great advice. I mean I think you know
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: my in my business, people are always asking me questions
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: and I'm happy to give them the answer what I
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: will say about You're not always going to get the
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: answer you want for sure, so be open as well
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: to getting it getting an answer you don't want to hear.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Absolutely I get answers. I don't want to hear all
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: the fucking time, like pretty much every day, and it
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: irritates me deeply, but but it it's it's necessary, Like
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: it is, how do you handle I'm gonna say criticism,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: but like critiques, you know, like feedback, because that's like
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: a big part of music.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I've been here, no since I was forever.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: So okay, so it's that's that's a great answer. How
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: do you deal with those?
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Understand why okay? Why don't you like it? Okay? Cool?
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: And and and if it's fixable, fix it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: If it's not fixable, move on to the next idea,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Like you can't have I don't take myself seriously. That
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: that seriously, you know what I'm saying, Like, if I'm
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: doing a record for you and you don't like what
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: I'm doing, then I'm not going to try to sit
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: there and convince you that this is you know, and sometimes,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: like you'll, you'll come across a record that you gotta
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: fight for just because you the artist made. You just
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: got to be able to have the discernment. Is the
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: artists in their own way right now? Or are they
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: really just not fucking with it? And I think that's
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: the job of a great record executive, a producer is
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: kind of understanding where on the line is this happening.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: You know, there's like the story I tell about when
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: me and Kaylennie when we were going figuring out the
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: finishing touches unfolded and she was like, I don't want
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: to do the strings and I'm like, but it needs
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: to have the shrings. It's like the big and so
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: we went through that, and that at that point was
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: the artist kind of getting in their own way over
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: analyzing what was going to happen with the song right
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: And then obviously it came out the way it came out.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: But you know, you just got to know when to
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: when to push and whin the pool. But you're gonna
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: get critiqued.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's part of the game for sure.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: But if you really believe in something like how do
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: you how do you fight for that?
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: You got to learn diplomacy. You can't just be like,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: you know, emotional about it. You got to like have
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: your points and you know, and one thing I say
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: about that particular artist with kay Lowney, and she's very
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: reasonable when it's right. So there'd be times where we'll
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: go through and she said, I don't want to I don't.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: I don't see it. I don't I don't see it
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: right now. But then within twenty four hours she'll be like, oh,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: you know what, I just trying to think about it.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I see where you're coming from. I think we should try.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Do you ever have to like step away from it,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: like from the song, like you've been in the studio
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: for too long, if you've listened to it too many times,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: like you come back and it sounds different, for sure,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: you get fatigued.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: That happens with anything, right, Like you know, you just
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: got to like go take a walk or go to
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: another song.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Come back.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: There's a record with this good walker.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: This guy, Yeah, can a test miles and miles.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Miles and miles of walking. I thought of you the
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: other day because I did. I did not do miles
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: and she drives because you're your short so your little legs.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my little legs can't handle too much walking. I
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: do like to walk inclined.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: She can barely get up the Culver City stairs, Like
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: it's like she like has to use her hands.
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: Like this is like this little joy that you baby
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: on the steps. I was like, why too little steps?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: It was you? It was me.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: No, I was thinking of you because I did not
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: do I did a little baby walk and I was
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: like Christ to walk further. But I'm not Christ. So
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: this is all the walking I'm doing today. Yeah, you
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: need a break, go to step away from things. I
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: think that's important though, because when you get so in
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: your head about things, you can't see it anymore. It's
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: like it's like when you're painting, you got to like
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: step back.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: From relationships music like taking a step back, taking a breather,
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: and you can kind of see it for what it is.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: It's just with everything, it's just like that's just how
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: it works.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Do you have a project that you are you are
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: most proud of or is that like kids who not
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: allowed to pick a favorite.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to pick a favorite.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: I mean I think the one that I'm most proud
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: of just because of the the the the the journey
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: has been obviously Kaylannie.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: But like no songs are like your babies. You can't
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: really pick.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: You can't pick a favorite. I'd probably have a favorite kid.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: You said this. Yeah, I said, that's why you need
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: to keep talking to your therapist.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: You're so concerned about my therapy training are you? Are
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: you in therapy?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a therapist. She's great Mercedes Cofflin.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Wow, I was just.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: You should give me some free session.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Freak couple. There are a couple in there. When did
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: you start going to therapy?
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: I started therapy with her a couple of years ago,
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: but maybe ten years ago.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, a therapy king you like this? Why did
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: you start going to therapy?
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: I was just getting overwhelmed when I was in law school.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: My dad got sick and my little brother was going
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: through some stuff, and so yeah, I just needed an
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: outlet to kind of figure out because it was it
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: was demanding of work and school. I was working full
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: time producing, flying all over the place and trying to
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: do exams and it was a lot going on. So
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: one of my counselors actually suggested, like, hey, you.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Should go talk.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Do you encourage other men to go to therapy?
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: I just think it's good to have a somebody holding
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: you accountable.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: You know, not all therapists are great therapists.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: No, I think I equate therapists kind of to like.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: To dating in some ways, like you have to find
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: someone that fits your vibe, not too much like they
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: need to still hold you accountable, but someone that you
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: feel comfortable with.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Like I have.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Have had a bunch of different therapists, but I really
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: wanted a black woman that was around my age because
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to have to keep explaining things like
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: certain nuances I.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Got too lit. They're like, okay, so what does that mean?
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: Well, not even that, Like yes, definitely that, but like
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: also just you know, cultural nuances and things that just
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: like some of the therapists that I have would never
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: understand and it matters for like navigating the world. But
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: I think you can have someone who's completely opposite of
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: you and it works well. Also, it's just you need
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: to sometimes a little bit of a trial and error.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And I think, like.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Not to make it about men or women, but I
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: because obviously you're the emotionally accessible person.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Here and I am not.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's important when it comes to like anything
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: with your mental health, and like to your point, you're
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: in you're a student, you're in law school, you're dealing
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: with family, like you could have just shut down and
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: you may not even be here today, like you would
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: not even had the career unless you've had no I
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: mean that's real, Like it's I mean, you were going
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: to kill yourself.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I was just saying your career.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: But also yeah, I mean people kill themselves, are killing
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: themselves then, are killing themselves, like at a much higher level, and.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Particularly black men. So I do think it's.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: Important that you, you know, don't feel like you can't
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: talk to people about it. And I think specifically like
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: within friend groups, like there's kind of the joke that
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: you like your group chat is your therapy, Like your
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: group chatter is not your therapy, Like they're probably enabling
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: you to continue doing not great behavior even if there's
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: some people holding you accountable.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Just sort through those emotions.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: My friend, I'm the youngest out of my friend group,
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: so I feel like everything that I've been going through
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: like they've been through, and so they beat me up,
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: they hold me accountable. But my therapist is also very
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: like she don't play no, she don't take no shit.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: She's very much like it's not all about accountability though,
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: because I can feel overwhelming for people too, Like sometimes.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: I'm a man, like at the end of the day,
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: it's like accountable, you gotta take accountability, Like that's just
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: a big part. I mean I also like a leader,
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: like I have to be accountable, Like it's part of
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: the job. Like if some shit goes wrong, everybody's looking
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: at me.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so like I can, but sometimes you need to
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: say space to just like be vulnerable and be like
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: I'm sad or like I'm disappointed for sure, or I'm
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: stressed out and like I don't have that.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: You know, leader energy today.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also goes down.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: It goes back to like okay, well why are you
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: overwhelmed or why are you sad?
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Or what did you do to compute it?
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, well, you know, I'm putting myself
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: in certain predicaments that next, what got to take accountability
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: from me?
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: He likes accountability got to got you?
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Got you?
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Accountability is important, I think, especially you mentioned being a leader.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: If you are an unaccountable leader, no one takes you seriously.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Start being like Trump, Well a lot of people.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Take Trump seriously.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Look guys, I didn't bring up the politics today.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: How proud are you? Palley right?
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: Like, it wasn't me for once, So you didn't do it.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: It wasn't me. Nothing to do with this, nothing to
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: do Oh, he's the worse. I can't wait till that's over.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Are you? Are you a political person? Yeah, I'm pretty
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: that's good. That means you have a brain.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Did you vote?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Yea good? Okay, did you vote for our neighbor?
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Our neighbor.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm putting you on the spot.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Don't do this, Okay, don't don't start the share with me, please, Okay, Okay,
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: I want to ask you about this kind of a
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: pivot from the pol But you do work with a
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: lot of women in the industry.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I do, and.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: You know, kind of why I also joke about not
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: ever wanting to have a and the musical ability is
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: because it, I mean, I'm incredibly unfamiliar with the music industry,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: Like I'm have a lot of friends that work in
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: the music industry, but like that's not my world. But
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: it seems like it's a tough place for women and
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: has been for a long time. Obviously getting better. Yeah,
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: but there does seem to be still a you know,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: a double standard for women, particularly like women rappers and
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: like how they are treated as business women. Like what
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: have you seen any of that in your experience in
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: the business.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Have I seen what exactly just like a.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Double standard for women artists? You know?
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But also like my career has been uplifting and
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: spreading the voices of of women my whole career. Like
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: I've I maybe worked with maybe two or three male artists.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: So for me, I've always seen these artists be empowered.
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: I've always seen these these artists obviously go through trip
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: trials and tribulations of their own, but I haven't seen
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: like anything crazy.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: They they're the ones that give me, that keep me employed,
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. So you know, I've always
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: made sure for myself to make sure that you know,
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: the the the environment is a safe space, never cross
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: any lines, would never hear any of that kind of shit,
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: because it's just important to keep the integrity and treat them,
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: you know, their business women. So for me, the environment
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: that I create, in the environment that I you know,
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: they're like my sisters, you know what I'm saying. So
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: you know, you know don't don't fuck with them. I
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: won't fuck you up.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying with them, I won't you
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: So like you know, but yeah, I've but there definitely
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: is a.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Lot of things that they go through that we don't
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: have to go through as men.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: So yeah, but ever my my my goal has been
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: I think women have the best stories. I feel like
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: women have the best I mean, they make the best artists.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: You know, they have the most contrary probably the popularly
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: the most relatable experiences because they're not afraid to talk
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: about their emotions, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: they're not afraid to to to especially this generation of artists,
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: they're not afraid to go and talk about things that
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: maybe taboo or they think the things that especially artists
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: I work with, they'll say the ship that we think
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: but don't say.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: So I love that.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: What what's the hardest part of being a producer like you?
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: You work on a bunch of different projects, You've worked
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: with a bunch of different artists, You've had a lot
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: of success, You've had great mentors, You've been in the business, robber,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: What is the what is the biggest challenge of being
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: a producer.
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: The biggest challenge of being a producer, I think is,
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: you know, every artist is different, so it's no one
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: size fits all. So the way that I communicate with
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: you may be different from the way that I communicate
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: with said other artists.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: I will cuss him the funk out if he is
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: over here interrupting my interview.
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so the main challenge with being a producer is
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: there's not a one shoe that fits all, right, so
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: the way that I communicate with you may be different
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: than the way I communicate with said other artists. So
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: I think it's just being able to keep that, being
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: able to pivot, you know, and learning how to communicate
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: with new people every time is definitely a challenge because
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: you know, you might.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Be a person that's like go.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Go go go go push, push, push, USh, push.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: And and there's somebody who's like, I don't respond to that. Yeah,
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: I need words of affirmation and I need to be
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: she got to kind of take off the different hat.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, yeah, parenting doesn't work the same for.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Every Yeah you got I mean you're kind of like
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: a coach in a lot of ways.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very much. So a coach.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: So when you see coaches talk about they got a
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: system and you got to fit into it, that does
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: not work.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: It doesn't work.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you can try to mold maybe
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: new artists to kind of fit in, but like sometimes
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: they're just they're just different. So you just got to
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: figure out how to You know, every draft season you're
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: going to get a new new kid that's like, well,
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: you know, somebody might just be off their and have.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Different sensitivities too, from a different generation. I love how
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: we we just wove our two worlds in there pretty perfectly. Yeah,
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: this was fun. I gave you I think four or
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: five compliments, which is five bye, by far exceeded five compliments,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: by far exceeded my straight male compliments given any mail,
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: I mean evere no man might get combatented for the
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: rest of the year.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: It's crazy me stapped out. You stole all of them.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: But I appreciate you coming down.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Thank you for all the music that you that you
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: give the world.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's important.
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: And then you do great work and I can't wait
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: to see what you're what you're.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Working on next, And yeah, appreciate it. I appreciate it.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: Makesure you follow Chris at Okay, I'm gonna have to
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: spell it, you know, I spell all these things k
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: h R I S Chris R I D d I
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: C k riddick times T y N like no E S.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: But actually come follow Chris and check out all of
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: his work. And thanks for coming down.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate you