Latest / The Scene Projects / Amani Roberts on Music, Education, and the Intersection of AI in Creativity

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Amani Roberts on Music, Education, and the Intersection of AI in Creativity · The Scene Projects

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  Welcome in to another exciting episode of The Scene.
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  I'm your host, Bubba Sartz.
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  And with me today is DJ, author, and public speaker, Amani Roberts.
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  So welcome to the show.
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  Thank you very much for having me.
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  Excited to chat with you.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, we're we're already getting to it off camera.
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  I said, hey.
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  We gotta hit record and get get this recorded.
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  So, go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners a little bit, little backstory, and
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  then we're gonna jump into, some exciting stuff you got going on.
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  Okay.
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  My name is Amani.
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  Grew up in the DC area, the DMV.
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  I grew up in hotels, working in hotels across The United States, then became a full time DJ,
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  and also now released my second book called the quiet storm, which came out in February.
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  We reached The USA TODAY bestseller list on launch week, which was amazing.
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  And then I speak about the music business and creativity, and I coach people who are working
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  in the music industry but wanna make more money.
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  That's a little bit about me.
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  Good.
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  Well, we're just gonna jump into, you helping me make money in the music industry then.
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  Alright.
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  Let's go.
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  Let's go.
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  Amazing.
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  That's a what what a turn.
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  So hospitality hospitality was was kind of your base.
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  Obviously, easy to dip into starting to DJ parties and things like that.
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  From that world, was it kind of a natural progression through these things during your
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  life to, okay.
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  Now I know how to do this.
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  Now it's time to teach others?
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  Well, what happened is that kinda in the middle, once I became a full time DJ, I also
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  became a college professor, and I would teach music business at the local college and also be
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  DJing out and about.
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  And that's where I really grew my love for the music business.
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  Then I went to grad school, Berkeley College of Music in Boston for my master's in music
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  business, and that kinda confirmed it.
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  My thesis was my book, and that's kind of the evolution of how I got there.
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  And now I just help, you know, both people who are working full time but have music that they
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  wanna monetize, then people who are kind of working in the industry as a musician and wanna
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  get a bigger audience, more money, etcetera.
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  So those are two people I work with.
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  Right.
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  Well and there's just so many avenues these days in the entertainment industry, to to make
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  a living.
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  And I think every single one of us kinda has a different path.
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  There's not a one size fits all.
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  You know?
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  It's not the eighties.
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  Get a band of your buddies together, grow your hair long, and play some power chords and hunt
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  a record deal.
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  Right?
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  Like, those days are so long gone, and both of us kinda lived through it.
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  I I'm just kind of, I guess interjecting.
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  I'm 39.
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  So as I'm graduating high school, the Internet is really starting to push.
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  By the time I'm five years into a music career, the whole game changed.
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  Right?
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  And I've been stumbling through for the last decade and a half trying to, like, okay.
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  Well, what what is the music industry now?
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  And, well, I was very fortunate to find podcasting within the last, you know, eighteen
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  months to find that I really have a knack for this, and this is how I serve my community of
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  musicians.
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  Doing a lot of the same things.
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  I I my book isn't out yet.
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  I'm still working on, finishing the manuscript and, getting that out, but it it's really to
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  train people how, like, this is what I did.
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  It's not necessarily like you have to do this, but this is how I did it.
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  I had success.
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  Here's maybe some other, you know, case studies, right, friends of mine that have made
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  it in another way and to deliver that.
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  Love that, you know, a a music educator who's well educated, not just from the school, but
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  you you've lived the career as well.
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  And I feel like that's not always the case.
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  Yeah.
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  I would agree.
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  You know, over eighteen years being a DJ, doing remixes, performing.
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  So it could be as even as basic as just making sure you're getting all your royalties both
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  domestically and internationally.
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  A lot of artists don't know about that, whether it be through Songtrust, Soundexchange, the
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  MLC.
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  Then the whole concept of synchronization, getting your music into movies, films, video
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  games, is pretty new to some artists.
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  They they know about it, but they don't really understand it.
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  And then we get into the merch game, communicating with your fans.
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  Like, there's so much to it.
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  And now, as you said, like, I grew up I'm a little older than you.
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  I grew up in the area of, like, buying cassettes and CDs.
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  But now music has been devalued so much, it's almost for free.
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  You can listen to everything for free on YouTube, so it's really marketing.
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  Really, you're streaming and your songs are marketing.
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  You want people to come into your community, whether it be through a podcast, you know, or,
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  like, a Patreon, things like that, buy your merch, sign up for your subscription, and to
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  just continue to come see you when you're out on tour.
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  Those are kind of the keys in the short term.
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  The long term would be like you're publishing, getting that money to pay you, you know,
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  mailbox money as we call it.
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  Right.
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  And I don't know how much of that is.
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  I mean, obviously, there's still some out there, but it it's far and few between.
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  There's no radio hits really anymore that you're I I worked with a gentleman who did Tom
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  Petty's first two records for Shelter Records, and he didn't get his name on the record,
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  because the guy you know, the record exec kinda took the producer name, but he gave him the
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  royalties.
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  And for decades, this man is collecting a check every now and then.
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  Right?
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  Because, you know, these these songs are still hitting the airwaves.
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  Right?
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  But that's not really a possibility these days, and I think any musician who's in the game
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  realizes that streaming isn't going to pay really anyone's bills anytime soon.
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  So it's exactly what you kinda touched on at the beginning there is it's about building a
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  community around your art.
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  Right?
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  And then letting that community kind of invest into you through merch and ticket sales and,
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  you know, maybe you're writing a book, your memoirs.
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  I I think a lot of artists these days can take can take a model from the biggest acts in the
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  world and what they've done and to just do the same thing.
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  Now will you run the same numbers?
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  Probably not.
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  But we don't not all of us need those numbers to maintain the lifestyle that we want to live.
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  I don't think many artists these days are chasing the, you know, the rock star lifestyle.
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  They just wanna get to stay on the road, essentially.
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  I agree.
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  I agree.
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  You could follow, like, Kevin Kelly's model, the 1,000 true fans.
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  If you can get a thousand people to spend a $100 a year on your merch, your product, your
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  community, that's a $100,000.
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  And that's a good way of living.
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  You can build from there, do other things.
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  That's kind of the model that I really speak from and the philosophy I really like to
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  promote.
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  And, you know, like you said, some of the biggest artists, like, we'll look at, like, a
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  Taylor Swift.
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  She's written a book.
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  So that's that shows you just how you can do that.
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  There are other artists who have phenomenal merchandise, things like that.
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  So it's just what can you do to keep people in your community and to try to monetize it that
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  way?
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  And I think it's hard for a lot, especially fans, to realize that Taylor Swift started out
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  essentially as one of us.
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  Right?
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  She was a young girl with a dream.
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  I I follow her former manager, Rick Barker, quite a bit.
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  And Mhmm.
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  And that's kind of so when I got out of prison in 2018, it was obvious that the world had
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  changed.
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  Right?
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  I I did two years in prison and was kind of coming out to one of a new life.
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  Right?
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  I I was not going to be doing the things I was before, mainly, you know, selling drugs at the
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  parties we were throwing in.
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  You know?
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  Like, that I wasn't going back to that.
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  I'm sure as a DJ, you can relate to plenty of people around the scene in DC that that that
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  was the model.
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  Right?
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  You know?
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  Oh, we're gonna throw rave so we can sell the drugs to the kids at the party, And, like,
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  that's how you made mute that's how you made money in the music business.
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  Mhmm.
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  And, obviously, that's not tenable nor is it a very great place to live in, you know, from a,
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  you know, a moral standpoint.
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  And I think that following that model of, like, just go find the people that love you and keep
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  investing in those people.
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  Keep inviting those people further and further into your world.
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  And things like Patreon can be so influential and such a great.
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  Maybe it's not providing that lifestyle, but it's providing a a foundation, right, of that
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  monthly subscription coming in that might pay the rent.
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  Right?
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  So, I think it's great what you're doing.
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  I can't wait to read the book.
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  I'll need a copy of that to put on the display back here
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  and
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  and tell all of our our other artists.
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  So, obviously, you just released the book back in February, pushing that very hard.
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  Is there I mean, obviously, we're trying to, you know, teach, teach artists how to make
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  money.
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  But is there a central theme to the book that is that is more than the money?
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  Yeah.
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  The theme to the book is just the history of r and b groups.
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  So we started in the nineteen fifties and go to the mid two thousands.
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  We identify about 10 or 11 groups per decade that were the top groups based on Grammy
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  nominations and wins, record sales, notable performances, and billboard hot 100 hits.
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  So we go through the entire chronology of all of the groups, then the last 20% is what
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  happened to the groups, why they disappear, and what's gonna happen next.
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  So that's kind of the theme, takes you through a journey.
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  You understand some stories.
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  You'll learn from artists about how they, you know, had issues with the record label or group
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  dynamics caused them to break apart or, you know, drugs were a big part of how they
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  declined, but also some of them were really creative.
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  And, like, earth, wind, and fire was able to really create, you know, memorable shows that
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  still to this day have been unmet.
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  And so that's kind of the theme.
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  What what it's about takes you on a journey.
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  There's lots of songs in there, playlist, and that's the book.
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  Yeah.
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  Oh, man.
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  Music fans are gonna love this one.
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  I think we all crave that a little bit behind the curtain.
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  Right?
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  That's why shows like Behind the Music on VH one way back in the day were so successful.
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  In some ways, that's what this network and this this program specifically, the Scene Projects,
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  is really about is letting you kinda meet the people behind the art, right, and giving you a
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  little glimpse into that because, it's not always easy to, to get the whole story just in
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  the art.
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  Had a really interesting conversation today with a, dancer turned choreographer turned
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  author herself now.
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  And it's like, wow.
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  You know, you got this whole journey, but for people just watching you perform one time, they
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  build a totally different story in their mind of who you are, and that was so so interesting
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  to me.
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  So love that.
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  Not only are you doing that, you know, for yourself, obviously, you probably have ways for
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  your fans to engage with you, but also showing a little bit of the history of where we've come
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  from and how we got here is so important.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I agree.
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  Just the history is good, the knowledge, and then another part is, like, just the samples.
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  So samples are really a big part of, like, hip hop, but most of the samples come from, like, r
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  and b music and other music.
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  And so to share with some of our younger viewers and younger fans where this music is
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  coming from is also very educational.
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  It really, really makes me feel happy also.
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  Yeah.
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  And and especially as a DJ, do you find that somehow you've become, like, an archivist of
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  the good music so you can introduce the younger generations
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  to it?
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  Yeah.
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  I like the way you put that.
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  An archivist, a curator, those are two good words to kinda say just to share.
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  Here's what's hot now, but maybe here's where they where it came from, where they got a
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  sample from or the lyrics and stuff.
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  So just a little education here and there.
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  But we have love for the new music, but we have love for the older classics as well.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think in this day and age, I mean, obviously, early hip hop, late eighties,
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  nineties, you know, Dre's samples was pulling all from that funk and r and b sound that, I I
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  mean, I wasn't familiar with the music.
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  I've been you know, I was I was kind of a baby in the early nineties when this music was
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  popular.
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  But now as my taste have expanded and I'm listening back to some of the hip hop from
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  there, I'm like, oh, that's where that came from.
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  Oh, that's where that came from.
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  So I think your book's a really cool dive into that.
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  Really can't wait to dig into the pages.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Thank you.
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  I agree.
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  It's just, it's a great curation of all this history of music as well as the ode to the
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  future.
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  And I think, you know, your listeners and your community is gonna really enjoy it because it's
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  you can't read it all, like, in one sitting.
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  You have to keep coming back to it, listen to something, kinda kinda analyze it for yourself,
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  and go from there.
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  Yeah.
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  Did you make a Spotify playlist that goes along with with everything?
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  There's a Spotify playlist and a YouTube playlist that talks about my favorite songs.
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  It's kinda one playlist, and then my favorite samples that I mentioned in the book and other
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  ones.
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  So you have, like, two different ways you can listen to it.
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  The Spotify favorite songs, Spotify samples, and then the same thing is on YouTube.
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  Oh, that's so cool.
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  What a what an interactive way to just really immerse yourself in this book and into the
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  songs.
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  Right?
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  And remembering what music made us feel like.
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  Mhmm.
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  And you kinda touched on the top that I we know we're listening to AI music at this point.
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  It it's been devalued so much, and we need to remember what it did for us.
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  And I think on some levels, me, as a songwriter and musician, a lot of times need that, that
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  refresher, right, of, you know, music is is powerful, powerful stuff, and it deserves
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  better than what it's been given the last decade, really.
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  And I think we're finding our way.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I think, a lot of people ask me my opinions on, like, AI music and what are my thoughts.
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  I don't think like, this is my opinion.
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  Like, AI hasn't gone through heartbreak.
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  They haven't go gone through, you know, the loss of a parent suddenly.
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  They haven't gone through maybe you the feeling that you miss when you're away from home for
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  multiple years.
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  So even if an AI artist is singing or making a song, it's not gonna have that feeling, that
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  soul within the song.
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  In addition, some of the greatest songs in history have lots of imperfections throughout
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  the song.
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  Look at, like, a Jimi Hendrix when he played the guitar.
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  He did crazy things that people hadn't really thought of before.
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  And so at first, people thought he was crazy, then it's, like, legendary.
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  When someone sings a song, maybe it's Celine Dion, and she sings a song, and maybe she's off
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  key because she gets so emotional singing about the song, or her voice breaks in a a certain
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  part of the song, like, you can't program AI to do that.
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  And those are the parts of the song that we love the most, the imperfections.
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  So I think that as much as people try to use AI to create music, it's the imperfections that we
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  love, and it's very hard to predict or duplicate that using an AI artist.
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  Well and even, you know, studio techniques, because we've moved from, you know, analog tape
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  and that you only had a certain amount of tape.
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  Right?
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  Like, you better go in there and deliver the performance of your life.
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  Now with techniques like comping, where yeah.
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  I watched a short bit with Billie Eilish one time, and she's like, yeah.
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  This take is, like, a 197 takes, and we took the best little moments from all these things.
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  And it's just like, but doesn't that rule?
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  Like, you're such a soulful person too.
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  Right?
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  Like, I feel like I I know I'm not a huge Billie Eilish fan, but what I've seen from her
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  is, like, you're a very deep individual.
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  Why would you kind of want to degrade that performance that you delivered by going and
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  dissecting and chopping it up.
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  And, I understand that, you know, we're we're seeking perfection, but it's just I don't know
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  that that's how you get there.
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  And maybe that's because I was raised on the Grateful Dead and and, like, live music is the
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  best.
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  Right?
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  Right.
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  And I'm just coming from a different era of music, right, than what these young children,
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  you know, kids, I call them, right, these 20 now
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  Yeah.
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  Are doing.
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  Even if she's using comping, it's all gonna show up when she's singing live.
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  When she's singing live, she's gonna have to sing it as it is, and maybe she pauses.
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  Maybe her voice breaks.
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  But in the live performances is where I say, like, the chickens come on the roost, people
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  and love her.
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  So they're gonna love her live shows whether or she's singing everything perfectly or their
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  imperfections.
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  So no matter what you do in the studio, when it comes to a live performance, that's when it's
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  gonna show up.
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  Well and maybe it's I mean, Billie Eilish is a very young woman.
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  And now she's been in this huge national spotlight.
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  So maybe it's, you know, just experience.
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  And with experience that she's going to evolve in that way to say, no.
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  I wanna go bare bones, and maybe they're recording on actual tape again in in the
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  future.
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  And I look at an artist like a, Miley Cyrus who kinda did that with her album Malibu and really
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  brought it back and kinda got a little more raw.
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  And I think sometimes age and experience are the only things that can teach you that.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I mean, Malibu, I think Flowers was on that album, if I recall correctly.
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  And that's, like, that was song of the year, I wanna say.
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  That one you've got nominated many awards, and that's a great song.
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  I mean, with the beat, the lyrics, like, she knocked that one out of the park, and that's
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  good that she went back to being more raw because she did that, and you see the results.
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  And she's got a classic song now.
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  Man, I am so thankful we got to have a little conversation today because these are these are
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  topics I don't get to talk about a lot in my small town.
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  And, you know, nobody's in my industry.
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  That that was really the impetus for starting the scene projects was to connect mostly with
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  Midwest artists because I feel like in flyover country here, nobody's coming to cover us.
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  Anyway.
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  We don't have a lot of weekly arts magazines like that, but the conversations I've been able
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  to have with other artists and people from all over the country and all over the world has
• 17:26
  just been an absolute blessing.
• 17:29
  Amani, do do you have your own podcast at all?
• 17:32
  I do.
• 17:32
  I do a podcast called Adventures in Business.
• 17:34
  It's with my cohost and great friend, Manny Graziano, and we talk to people who primarily
• 17:39
  work in, like, the hospitality industry, speaking, and we kinda get to know them, get
• 17:43
  advice, wisdom, and we do that every week.
• 17:46
  Usually, it's live, 4PM on the East Coast, 1PM on the West, and then it goes out to a podcast
• 17:51
  after that.
• 17:52
  So that's the podcast that, I work on currently.
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  And we've we're just celebrating about three years, 200 episodes.
• 17:58
  Awesome.
• 17:59
  Awesome, man.
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  I just love it.
• 18:01
  You got such great insights into the music business and to music in general.
• 18:07
  So thankful that we got to get together today and have a little conversation.
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  Let you go ahead and plug any, you know, website where we can find the book and
• 18:14
  everything before I let you get out of here.
• 18:16
  Yeah.
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  If if anyone an artist is listening to our conversation and they really wanna take the
• 18:20
  next step to get to the next level with their music, they can go to amaniexperience.com
• 18:25
  backslash call.
• 18:26
  I give a free thirty minute call.
• 18:27
  We can talk about your music, your art, and that's the best way to reach me.
• 18:32
  Well, Amani, thanks for coming on the show today, and I wanna thank you for being part of
• 18:36
  the scene.
• 18:37
  Awesome.
• 18:38
  Thank you very much for having me.
• 18:39
  It was a great conversation.
• 18:41
  And everybody else, make sure you're liking the show, following us everywhere, and we'll see
• 18:45
  you next time.