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90. When We Tell a Different Story, We Can Have a Different Experience with John Harold Moore · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world.
• 0:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy Cartwright: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy Cartwright: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Today, I have the utmost pleasure, I've been really looking forward to this interview, John, to have John Harold Moore here with me today.
• 0:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Welcome, John.
• 0:46
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm so excited.
• 0:47
  Tracy Cartwright: I'd love for y- you to introduce yourself.
• 0:50
  John Harold Moore: Thank you, Tracy, and I am glad this is finally happening.
• 0:53
  John Harold Moore: I know we've been talking back and forth, and you just made such an impression on me with that, uh, online workshop we did during- Mm … COVID when we were all trapped in our homes, and I'm just really honored to be here today.
• 1:06
  John Harold Moore: Thank you for the invitation.
• 1:07
  Tracy Cartwright: You're welcome.
• 1:08
  Tracy Cartwright: You're welcome.
• 1:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Would you like to share with the viewers and the listeners a little bit about you, who you are, where you are?
• 1:14
  John Harold Moore: Sure.
• 1:15
  John Harold Moore: So I am a family constellations facilitator and a spiritual coach.
• 1:20
  John Harold Moore: I live in Sarasota, Florida right now, and I was introduced to this work in September of 2012 in Miami, actually.
• 1:31
  John Harold Moore: Um, I coincidentally, if you believe in those things, uh, went to a book club at the Unity Church in Miami, and the book we were studying was You Can Create an Exceptional Life.
• 1:45
  John Harold Moore: Mm. And during that book club, that small group, I met a woman who was talking about family constellations, and I must admit, my first reaction was, "Ugh, well, all we need, another modality," and I totally dismissed it.
• 2:01
  John Harold Moore: And then, uh, she invited me to come to her home.
• 2:05
  John Harold Moore: She led a, a meditation circle in her living room every Wednesday night, and she invited me to play my crystal singing bowl for her meditation people, and I did, and I met someone who sat next to me who was going on and on about how amazing family constellations were, and I needed to try it.
• 2:25
  John Harold Moore: And I'm like, "Okay, this is some unsolicited, uh, advertisement for this modality. Maybe I should check it out." And I went to the next, uh, workshop that this woman, Michelle Bleckner is her name, had, uh, in her home, and I was completely blown away by what happened, um, in my constellation.
• 2:47
  John Harold Moore: It was so profound that afterwards I said, "How do you learn how to do this?" And she said, "I'm so glad you asked.
• 2:52
  John Harold Moore: I'd love to teach you." And thus began my journey with family constellations.
• 3:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Wow, fantastic.
• 3:01
  Tracy Cartwright: We've had Michelle on the podcast as well.
• 3:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Amazing.
• 3:04
  Tracy Cartwright: She's really
• 3:05
  John Harold Moore: amazing.
• 3:05
  John Harold Moore: She is.
• 3:06
  John Harold Moore: She's an inspiration finding this work at a later chapter in life and just loving it, and all she wants to do is spread the word.
• 3:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 3:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:16
  Tracy Cartwright: That's beautiful.
• 3:17
  Tracy Cartwright: So you, so you learned with Michelle, and then how do you, how do you describe it to people?
• 3:22
  Tracy Cartwright: That's one of my, my most asked questions, is how do you describe it?
• 3:25
  John Harold Moore: I often say that is the hardest part about being a family constellations facilitator, is describing what it is, because it is such an experience.
• 3:35
  John Harold Moore: But I usually say that it is a healing modality that, uh, reveals and heals unconscious loyalties or things that have been passed down from generation to generation, pains or patterns.
• 3:51
  John Harold Moore: Um, we take a look at them and we see, um, where something that happened in your ancestry might be affecting your life today.
• 4:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Beautiful.
• 4:02
  Tracy Cartwright: I love that.
• 4:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Kind of similar to how I would describe it, too.
• 4:05
  John Harold Moore: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:06
  Tracy Cartwright: There's so many different ways of describing it, right?
• 4:09
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 4:10
  John Harold Moore: I'm sorry.
• 4:10
  John Harold Moore: She does, uh, feng shui and space clearing.
• 4:13
  John Harold Moore: I often say she does with spaces what I do with families.
• 4:16
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 4:17
  John Harold Moore: And another way to approach it is, like, when you get… When someone passes and you, they leave you something but you don't really want it, like maybe their, their china or an antique piece of furniture and it's not really your style but you, you have it and you don't know what to do with it.
• 4:36
  John Harold Moore: And she, she recommends, well, you have the memory of the person.
• 4:41
  John Harold Moore: You don't need the thing.
• 4:43
  John Harold Moore: So it's kind of like that, kind of like inheriting something that you don't really want but you feel like you are obligated to take it.
• 4:50
  John Harold Moore: But you can absolutely release it because it, it's not something that will serve you in your home or your garage.
• 4:58
  John Harold Moore: It'll just sit there taking up space.
• 5:00
  John Harold Moore: Mm. So I like to… Sometimes I explain it like that, too.
• 5:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Feng shui for the soul, hey?
• 5:06
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 5:07
  Tracy Cartwright: That's very cool.
• 5:08
  Tracy Cartwright: In the little notes that we've been sending back, you s- you shared about it being- Like, uh, people recognizing… Let me see if I can pull this up.
• 5:18
  Tracy Cartwright: I, I had it up here before.
• 5:20
  Tracy Cartwright: People often want to know what it's like to be a character in a parade.
• 5:25
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 5:26
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 5:27
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you go, can you share a little bit
• 5:31
  John Harold Moore: more about that?
• 5:31
  John Harold Moore: Sure.
• 5:31
  John Harold Moore: So one of the, the most unusual and biggest blessings of my life is to get to be a performer at Walt Disney World in Orlando.
• 5:41
  John Harold Moore: For seven years I did that.
• 5:43
  John Harold Moore: You
• 5:43
  Tracy Cartwright: were.
• 5:44
  John Harold Moore: I was.
• 5:45
  John Harold Moore: And- Oh,
• 5:45
  Tracy Cartwright: wow… John Harold Moore: it was one of the the magical experiences I've ever had.
• 5:56
  Tracy Cartwright: And I really do think that it prepared me to do this work because I was painfully shy before I worked there, and I really believe spirit, the knowing field, whatever you wanna call it, knew that if I was to do this work, I had to be comfortable being in front of people.
• 6:15
  Tracy Cartwright: And so it started me out being in a costume where no one knew who I was, but I could be in front of thousands of people and doing the parades, um, in these character costumes, and then getting comfortable with that.
• 6:29
  Tracy Cartwright: And then eventually I got- the opportunity to do roles where my face was showing.
• 6:36
  Tracy Cartwright: So I was a dancer in Cinderella's court, and I got to be the prince from Sleeping Beauty, and Captain John Smith from Pocahontas.
• 6:46
  Tracy Cartwright: And it- No way … really helped me get out of my shell and get comfortable and being in front of people.
• 6:53
  Tracy Cartwright: And I, I just, I know that that was preparing me to do what I do now, 'cause I never would have been able to get in front of a group of 30, 40, 60, 100 people and talk about constellations if I hadn't gotten comfortable, um- Mm-hmm… being in front of people like that.
• 7:11
  Tracy Cartwright: So it was a gift, for sure, in lots of ways.
• 7:14
  Tracy Cartwright: What a, what a way to be prepared, hey?
• 7:16
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 7:17
  John Harold Moore: Yes, definitely.
• 7:18
  John Harold Moore: And, and
• 7:18
  Tracy Cartwright: so people want to know what that's like.
• 7:22
  John Harold Moore: It… For the mo- Usually people ask, "Is there air conditioning in those costumes?"
• 7:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Right.
• 7:28
  John Harold Moore: No, there is not.
• 7:30
  John Harold Moore: They tried to do some kind of system with cold water pumping through, but it just made the costumes heavier.
• 7:37
  John Harold Moore: But like anything, you just get used to it, and you're not in the costume for hours and hours and hours at a time.
• 7:44
  John Harold Moore: But it was, it was like being a celebrity for a half an hour because if you are, if you are in one of those costumes, you are Brad Pitt for, for a half hour.
• 7:59
  John Harold Moore: And the little- Yeah … kids come up to you, and they have all kinds of questions about the movie, or they just want a hug, or they're shy.
• 8:06
  John Harold Moore: To be in a place where, where there is so many people that came together to experience joy and to be part of something that is so well-known around the world, and it gave me a chance to be a kid as well, 'cause we weren't getting paid much, but I was getting paid to dress up and dance around and play with kids and dance and be- Mm in parades.
• 8:31
  John Harold Moore: And mostly I did, I did a lot of puppetry as well.
• 8:34
  John Harold Moore: We did a, a show f- uh, that Disney put on, a drug prevention puppet show that went to all the elementary schools in the area-
• 8:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 8:43
  John Harold Moore: Yeah … and taught kids the, the dangers of drugs and trying them and… too soon, or trying them, or just learning how to say no at a young age when they're exposed to it.
• 8:53
  John Harold Moore: And that, growing up in an alcoholic household, that meant a lot to me, to be able to- Mm-hmm … I felt like I was doing something meaningful, um- Beautiful … giving back.
• 9:04
  John Harold Moore: And having grown up like that, I, as many people probably listening to this, grew up fast when, when that kind of, uh, energy is in your home, and so it gave me a chance to be a kid in my late 20s and 30s.
• 9:18
  John Harold Moore: So it was, it was a l- lot of different gifts on a lot of different levels to work there.
• 9:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 9:26
  Tracy Cartwright: That's beautiful.
• 9:26
  Tracy Cartwright: I've been to Disneyland in, um, Anaheim, and just the energy of the people that are performing, and they're just so in character, and it's really- Yes … it does seem, uh, for me, it transported me back to being a six-year-old watching-
• 9:42
  John Harold Moore: Yes
• 9:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Disney on the Side.
• 9:43
  John Harold Moore: We know how, we know how important it is to get in touch with our inner child and to accept- Mm … that part of ourselves that often gets rejected for whatever reason.
• 9:52
  John Harold Moore: Mm. So to have an opportunity, uh, to get back in touch with that, no matter what age you are, 'cause there are people wearing silly, goofy hats, and they're, at, at any age.
• 10:03
  John Harold Moore: Um, and everyone, no one thinks it's weird.
• 10:06
  John Harold Moore: It's just what you do there.
• 10:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 10:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Everyone belongs- Yes … even with a silly, goofy hat on,
• 10:11
  John Harold Moore: right?
• 10:12
  John Harold Moore: Exactly.
• 10:13
  John Harold Moore: Exactly.
• 10:13
  John Harold Moore: Well said.
• 10:14
  John Harold Moore: Well
• 10:15
  Tracy Cartwright: said.
• 10:15
  Tracy Cartwright: No, that's, that's beautiful.
• 10:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Has anything like that ever shown up in your field?
• 10:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Because you bring a lot of joy.
• 10:20
  Tracy Cartwright: I listen, I read your emails.
• 10:22
  Tracy Cartwright: You send out the most amazing email.
• 10:25
  Tracy Cartwright: I look forward to reading your emails because I can hear it- Oh, thank you … I can hear it in your voice.
• 10:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, as I'm reading it, I hear your accent, and you, 'cause you're always so enthusiastic when you're talking as well.
• 10:36
  Tracy Cartwright: So I'm like, I'm l- I'm reading it, and I'm really getting- taken away with the stories.
• 10:41
  Tracy Cartwright: You have fascinating, fascinating stories that you share with- in your emails, so.
• 10:46
  John Harold Moore: D- W- Well, I think it all comes together again how, you know, 'cause family constellations is just telling a different story-
• 10:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm… John Harold Moore: than the And so I learn by stories.
• 11:01
  Tracy Cartwright: That's why one of the reasons I love Disney, Walt Disney and the company today shares stories, and they sneak these messages of inclusion, and it's okay to be different, and all of, all of these messages that are positive and life-affirming.
• 11:17
  Tracy Cartwright: And so for me to be able to do that with family constellations and be able… Or my weekly emails are just sharing whatever life is teaching me.
• 11:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, oh, here's a story that, um, maybe will help someone reading this.
• 11:33
  Tracy Cartwright: So that is- Mm … that is really the core of who I am is I, I love to, to share and help and help people heal and learn through storytelling.
• 11:45
  Tracy Cartwright: And when we can tell a different story, we can have a different experience.
• 11:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 11:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Love that.
• 11:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, because we can get really trapped in our stories.
• 11:56
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 11:56
  John Harold Moore: You
• 11:57
  Tracy Cartwright: know, and it becomes this loop that goes around and around.
• 12:00
  Tracy Cartwright: And if we can find another pathway in that loop, we can go, "There's another story," and that has a h- totally different narrative, right?
• 12:10
  Tracy Cartwright: And it's not that- Yes … you forget this pathway, but it's just that you're then, you're on this one rather than looping on the one that's got all the trauma and the pain and the…
• 12:19
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 12:20
  John Harold Moore: Exactly.
• 12:20
  John Harold Moore: That there's one story that doesn't feel good that keeps me trapped, and there's another story that is, helps me to release and to expand.
• 12:31
  John Harold Moore: And I could tell the story about how hard it was when my mom started drinking after my dad died and tell all the stories of, you know, the, the things that I wish that I hadn't seen.
• 12:42
  John Harold Moore: Or I can tell the story of- Wow.
• 12:46
  John Harold Moore: By the, before she passed, I got to the place where I could thank her for everything that happened, because it brought me exactly where I am today.
• 12:56
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 12:56
  John Harold Moore: And I don't know if I would have become a course in miracle student or a family constellations facilitator had I not had that background, had I not had those experiences.
• 13:06
  John Harold Moore: And what I can say, though, about my mom, as hard as it was, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that she loved me.
• 13:14
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 13:15
  John Harold Moore: And that I, I know not everyone has that experience, so I feel very blessed and lucky that I have, that I did have a mom like that through all the difficulties.
• 13:27
  John Harold Moore: But, and she passed before I found family constellations, but I- Mm … boy, could I see in hindsight how much of her pain I was carrying.
• 13:37
  John Harold Moore: 'Cause she, she lost her father before she was born.
• 13:41
  John Harold Moore: A month before she was born he died in a swimming accident.
• 13:44
  John Harold Moore: Oh.
• 13:45
  John Harold Moore: And then she lost her firstborn child.
• 13:48
  John Harold Moore: He was born very prematurely, so he only lived about five days.
• 13:54
  John Harold Moore: And then my father passed at a young age through cancer.
• 13:57
  John Harold Moore: So I could s- that's a lot of loss for one person's life.
• 14:01
  John Harold Moore: Mm.
• 14:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 14:02
  John Harold Moore: And I knew about all those things, but it wasn't until I started experiencing family constellations that I could see how much she was carrying.
• 14:12
  John Harold Moore: And I was a good little boy, and I wanted to take some of that from her, or for her.
• 14:17
  John Harold Moore: And of course all that did was keep the chain of pain going.
• 14:21
  John Harold Moore: So but I can… I didn't know that the pain I was feeling wasn't mine back when I was in college.
• 14:28
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 14:28
  John Harold Moore: I just assumed it was mine.
• 14:30
  John Harold Moore: But boy, did that shed some light on what was happening once I- Mm … started discovering more about family constellations.
• 14:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Tracy Cartwright: It's incredible, eh?
• 14:39
  Tracy Cartwright: I mean, a- and I just wanna loop, come back to where I talked about the stories and the looping.
• 14:45
  Tracy Cartwright: We- it's valid to talk about, it's valid to share our story.
• 14:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:48
  Tracy Cartwright: It's when we can't get out of it.
• 14:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 14:50
  Tracy Cartwright: So just wanna put that in there.
• 14:51
  Tracy Cartwright: But yeah, those things that we experience, those early childhood experiences, the ACEs, and, um, and how they shape us, right?
• 15:00
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 15:01
  Tracy Cartwright: And the resources that have come from that.
• 15:03
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and I see, you know, how you now channel the joy and the light and the happiness and the, and the love that is there that was clouded, obviously.
• 15:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, just thinking of that water behind you, you know?
• 15:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, there was so much water.
• 15:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 15:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Tracy Cartwright: So much grief in that field.
• 15:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 15:21
  Tracy Cartwright: So, um, and- Yes … and the same for me, you know?
• 15:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, I thought my family was, was normal, quote, quotation marks.
• 15:29
  Tracy Cartwright: What's normal anyway, really?
• 15:31
  Tracy Cartwright: But-
• 15:31
  John Harold Moore: Yes… Tracy Cartwright: finding out some were not actually quite, or not healthy, we'll just say that.
• 15:36
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 15:37
  John Harold Moore: It wasn't happening in everyone's household.
• 15:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So, um, so yeah, for me this work has been that blessing as well.
• 15:45
  Tracy Cartwright: It's so beautiful.
• 15:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:46
  John Harold Moore: Mm.
• 15:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you give me an example, if, if you feel to share, of any, or something that maybe has rippled out in your family for, for you?
• 15:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Something that you've experienced in through constellations or, uh, or it's opened a door for something.
• 16:04
  John Harold Moore: Sure.
• 16:05
  John Harold Moore: Sure.
• 16:06
  John Harold Moore: The, um, the thing that came to mind right away, um, was a, uh, a story I heard from my aunt, my dad's sister.
• 16:17
  John Harold Moore: Because what I know about my, my dad's side of the family, even though he died young and I don't, we don't, we kind of lost touch with that side of the family.
• 16:25
  John Harold Moore: Not as close anyway with that side.
• 16:27
  John Harold Moore: But when he was a young boy something happened with his mom and his dad, and his mother was ostracized, excluded.
• 16:36
  John Harold Moore: Something-
• 16:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 16:37
  John Harold Moore: She, she, I hear she was a wild child.
• 16:40
  John Harold Moore: Um, and she, she, uh, maybe didn't fit the norm.
• 16:45
  John Harold Moore: There's that word again.
• 16:46
  John Harold Moore: Or didn't do what she was supposed to do at that era.
• 16:50
  John Harold Moore: And so she left, or they, they basically kicked her out, and they only referred to her as the little hussy, uh, from what I'm told.
• 17:00
  John Harold Moore: And when she would try to come and visit my dad and my aunt, um, they would hide them under the bed and tell her that- they weren't there, so she couldn't see them.
• 17:11
  John Harold Moore: And when I heard that story, I… Like, spontaneous tears started to flow from me.
• 17:18
  John Harold Moore: Like, much… It's a sad story, but definitely out of proportion to what I was… what was happening.
• 17:25
  John Harold Moore: Like, why am I feeling that so deeply?
• 17:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 17:28
  John Harold Moore: And it… And I realized, oh, I have an unconscious loyalty to that grandmother.
• 17:34
  John Harold Moore: I only met her once.
• 17:36
  John Harold Moore: Um, it was years after my dad passed, and she wanted to see one of her son's children, and I was 10 years old, and I was the one that they could get to Newark, New Jersey pretty easily.
• 17:48
  John Harold Moore: So I went to see her, and that was the only time I interacted with her.
• 17:54
  John Harold Moore: But I definitely feel her presence, and I know that I carry some of her shame and guilt, that it got passed on to me, and that's why I think I burst into tears when, when I heard that story.
• 18:12
  John Harold Moore: And I carry it differently.
• 18:14
  John Harold Moore: Um, the, the shame for me came, um, in being gay.
• 18:20
  John Harold Moore: And so the, the shame and the guilt, like something's wrong with me or I shouldn't live my own life.
• 18:26
  John Harold Moore: And so the details were different.
• 18:29
  John Harold Moore: But the, but the shame and the guilt were the same or somehow it's not okay to be who I am and still belong to the family.
• 18:37
  John Harold Moore: And so I feel very, what I did was a, um, an exercise that Mark Wolynn, the author of It Didn't Start With You, recommended.
• 18:45
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 18:45
  John Harold Moore: I went to several of his workshops when he used to come to Miami every December, and he recommended getting a picture of an ancestor that you feel was forgotten or you feel entangled with, and just look at that photo and say, "I see you.
• 19:03
  John Harold Moore: I recognize you," in this case, "as my father's mother. Let's be connected through love, not guilt and shame." Mm-hmm.
• 19:11
  John Harold Moore: And I said that to her photo every night for 30 days, and it felt like it released something.
• 19:19
  John Harold Moore: Um, and I feel very close to her now, but I don't, I don't think… I know that that, that doesn't have to repeat in my family, um, through our lineage by just acknowledging and reconnecting with her through love- Mm and being my authentic self.
• 19:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. That's right.
• 19:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, it's, it's also, it's bringing them, it's bringing them back in, isn't it?
• 19:43
  Tracy Cartwright: And because they say, um, you know, you die twice, one, once when you physically leave and then the second time when people stop mentioning your name.
• 19:52
  Tracy Cartwright: And so by bringing them back in, uh, they have their place.
• 19:56
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 19:57
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 19:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Tracy Cartwright: That's really lovely.
• 20:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Um-
• 20:00
  John Harold Moore: And that was actually my first constellation experience with Michelle, was sharing that my older siblings had said that if my dad had lived, he wouldn't have been okay with me being gay.
• 20:15
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 20:15
  John Harold Moore: And they weren't saying it to be mean or anything, it was just anecdotal or he must have made comments or something.
• 20:22
  John Harold Moore: And when I, when the representative for my father was in the field and they, and Michelle asked that representative,"How do you feel about that?" He said,"You all, you know, I wish you would give me, uh, the benefit of the doubt.
• 20:38
  John Harold Moore: Like, I would've been more okay with it than you think." And in that moment, I remembered these little toys that my dad bought me when I was probably five years old.
• 20:49
  John Harold Moore: They were called Upsy-Downsies, and they were pink and lavender and purple and definitely in the '70s marketed to little girls and not little boys.
• 21:00
  John Harold Moore: And I hadn't thought about those toys in probably 30 years.
• 21:04
  John Harold Moore: But in that moment, the knowing field let that memory come back into my mind.
• 21:10
  John Harold Moore: Oh, wow.
• 21:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 21:11
  John Harold Moore: And I thought, oh my gosh, he would have been okay with it.
• 21:15
  John Harold Moore: 'Cause if he wasn't, he would have been buying me, you know, trucks and, and baseball gloves and all the, the traditional- Mm … masculine boy t- stuff and not these little dolls.
• 21:27
  John Harold Moore: And that constellation was a game changer for me, because I knew that I could still be part of my family and be who I was, and that idea that there was something wrong with me- Like, I would never share this in a, in a podcast or, you know, in some of my writings, and I share that story in my, in my groups.
• 21:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 21:50
  John Harold Moore: Because it was so powerful that it let me, it let me be who I am, and I could belong and feel the support of my dad.
• 21:59
  Tracy Cartwright: That's amazing.
• 22:00
  Tracy Cartwright: That's, that's really beautiful, and I'm so glad to hear that.
• 22:04
  Tracy Cartwright: I love how the knowing field just brings those, um, little nuggets of insight.
• 22:09
  Tracy Cartwright: There was, you know, in those memories of like- Yes"Oh, yeah,
• 22:13
  John Harold Moore: remember?"
• 22:13
  Tracy Cartwright: I remember one for me, like I had, I had a lot of story around the pain and the disconnection with my father, and then I had this one moment of remembering standing on his feet, like I was in the, in the, "Ah, I remember dancing with him." I think I was doing an exercise around joy or something, or the father connection or something like that, and, um, as a little one standing on his feet, and he would dance, and I was… I… He was taking me in the movement.
• 22:39
  Tracy Cartwright: So that was, yeah, that beautiful-
• 22:41
  John Harold Moore: Yeah… Tracy Cartwright: it opens And- It does, and that one feels much better than any of the other memories that maybe weren't so good.
• 22:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 22:49
  John Harold Moore: And how, how do you f- I, sometimes I use the metaphor, it's like we're so used to hanging our coat up on the same hook, and what if we were to hang it on a different hook and tell a different story?
• 23:01
  John Harold Moore: Mm. And then that feels… That's a much better place to put, put our, hang up our coat- Mm … because we can move forward with joy and not sadness.
• 23:09
  John Harold Moore: So even if it's one little memory, if that's the only one, that will be enough to hold onto that one and help you go forward with that story instead.
• 23:20
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Love that.
• 23:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Love that.
• 23:22
  Tracy Cartwright: You know the exercise, what you was sharing about what Mark Wolynn had said about the photograph, and you did it with your grandmother?
• 23:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 23:28
  Tracy Cartwright: It's just for the listeners and that, that, that don't, um, know.
• 23:32
  Tracy Cartwright: So what would he suggest or what would you suggest that they do if they don't have a photograph of this ancestor?
• 23:39
  John Harold Moore: I don't think you need a photograph.
• 23:41
  John Harold Moore: You can just hold them, hold them in your mind's eye, imagine what they might have looked like, or just talk to them in general and say, "I, I don't know, I don't know what you look like, but I know who you are." Or even if you don't know which ancestor, sometimes the- Mm details aren't as important as the intention of, "I know I'm entangled with an ancestor who knows how many generations back, but I feel your presence.
• 24:10
  John Harold Moore: I feel I'm carrying something for you, and it's too much for me.
• 24:14
  John Harold Moore: I'd like to give it back, and I welcome you." If for some reason there was someone that might have been excluded- You could just say, "I recognize you as part of the family-" Mm-hmm and I welcome you.
• 24:26
  John Harold Moore: You have your place in the family and in my heart."
• 24:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, I love that.
• 24:30
  Tracy Cartwright: I love that.
• 24:31
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm doing something similar at the moment.
• 24:32
  Tracy Cartwright: My-
• 24:33
  John Harold Moore: Okay… Tracy Cartwright: mo- in my… I and then there's nothing.
• 24:37
  John Harold Moore: Oh.
• 24:38
  Tracy Cartwright: No, no… We- th- we've lost track, um, and it feels really important for me to find that, that thread, that maternal thread, so.
• 24:48
  John Harold Moore: Yeah,
• 24:48
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 24:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Doing that and, and, um, calling in some DNA detective help.
• 24:53
  John Harold Moore: Yes, yes.
• 24:55
  Tracy Cartwright: The beauty of living in the modern era, right?
• 24:57
  John Harold Moore: Yes, yes.
• 24:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 24:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Ah, beautiful.
• 25:00
  Tracy Cartwright: So you, um, you work one-on-one.
• 25:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you work online and in workshops as well, right?
• 25:06
  John Harold Moore: I do.
• 25:07
  John Harold Moore: I do one-on-one sessions with Zoom or FaceTime, and I do online workshops and in-person workshops.
• 25:13
  John Harold Moore: And I'm guessing you're finding the same thing, but it never ceases to amaze me that the field doesn't care whether we're in the same physical location or not.
• 25:23
  John Harold Moore: Mm. It still works.
• 25:25
  John Harold Moore: The, the information is there.
• 25:27
  John Harold Moore: The healing happens.
• 25:28
  John Harold Moore: The Zoom will kick somebody off, um, and then they'll come back on, or somebody will end up right next to somebody on the screen or- Yeah.
• 25:37
  John Harold Moore: Ooh, ooh, ooh.
• 25:37
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 25:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes… John Harold Moore: it's like a I'm… I say this all the time.
• 25:43
  Tracy Cartwright: I've been doing this work 13 years now, and I'm still blown away every single time.
• 25:49
  Tracy Cartwright: No exaggeration.
• 25:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, I couldn't have planned that.
• 25:53
  Tracy Cartwright: I might have guided or nudged, but that's one of the things that I learned in my training, is just to follow the movement.
• 26:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Just to let- Yeah … what wants to happen happen, and something always happens that I'm like, "Wow." Someone has the same name as someone else, or they have a spontaneous memory like we've talked about, or someone is, someone is moved in a different location on the screen, or someone that is representing secrets, uh, goes away and then everyone feels better.
• 26:23
  Tracy Cartwright: And then the secret person comes back, and the, the representative's all like, "Ooh, I'm uneasy with that person again." And it just, it just is amazing, um, what happens.
• 26:34
  Tracy Cartwright: You, you know you can't make it up.
• 26:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Exactly.
• 26:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 26:39
  Tracy Cartwright: So do you have m- like monthly gatherings online, or how does your online workshops work?
• 26:45
  John Harold Moore: You know, I was doing them monthly for a while, and I realized that that wasn't practicing what I preach.
• 26:53
  John Harold Moore: That I was like, maybe I'll just wait for the inspiration.
• 26:57
  John Harold Moore: So if I have a theme or I get a little nudge from Spirit like, yeah, it's time to do another one.
• 27:03
  John Harold Moore: So they're not monthly, but they're, they're whenever I feel inspired to do one.
• 27:08
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 27:08
  John Harold Moore: And that feels so much more peaceful and spacious.
• 27:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 27:14
  John Harold Moore: So yeah.
• 27:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 27:16
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and- I know that you, y- it's the, it's the Course of Miracles, isn't it, that you've also, that you also practice?
• 27:24
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 27:25
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 27:25
  John Harold Moore: That, I was introduced to the course, um, 2006, the end of 2006, by a friend of mine from massage school, 'cause I was a massage therapist for a while after Disney.
• 27:37
  John Harold Moore: And then, um, then started getting into, uh, spiritual coaching, and I found constellations right around the same time.
• 27:45
  John Harold Moore: But w- I had been studying the course for about six years, so when I went to that first constellation in September of 2012, I thought, "Oh, this…" I took to it so quickly because to me it felt like the same energy.
• 28:02
  John Harold Moore: There was so much, so much that was in, um, in harmony with what the course teaches.
• 28:08
  John Harold Moore: That- Mm … we are all one.
• 28:10
  John Harold Moore: No one is left out.
• 28:12
  John Harold Moore: You can f- you can have a different experience by thinking of something differently, choosing love instead of fear.
• 28:19
  John Harold Moore: It wasn't, it wasn't the course, but it was the course in action, the principles, um, that Bert Hellinger and, and the constellation knowing field was bringing together.
• 28:31
  John Harold Moore: 'Cause one of the, one of… I think you, maybe you'll know better that one of the things that Bert said was that we're just bringing things that were separated back together.
• 28:41
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 28:41
  John Harold Moore: And that's exactly what the course is doing.
• 28:43
  John Harold Moore: It's teaching that the separation is where we suffer, and when we bring things back together is when there's healing.
• 28:51
  John Harold Moore: And so it just seemed, seemed like a no-brainer to me that, "Oh, this is what I already practice," but it's- Yeah … something tangible, and I don't… It, the course uses a lot of, you know, terminology that might be off-putting for someone.
• 29:05
  John Harold Moore: But family constellations, we all have a family, and they've all done some interesting things.
• 29:11
  John Harold Moore: So everyone can relate to that, so it makes the, it makes the practice much more relatable to people that may not be into A Course in Miracles.
• 29:20
  John Harold Moore: But I find them, like, that energy of studying the course for a while comes into my workshops.
• 29:28
  John Harold Moore: Whether I don't necessarily call it that, but that's- Mm … that's kind of the guiding light.
• 29:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 29:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Tracy Cartwright: I can see that.
• 29:35
  Tracy Cartwright: I know I see that for myself and- Different modalities over the time, you know?
• 29:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, and how they, they influence my work as well.
• 29:45
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 29:45
  John Harold Moore: It's, it's one of the… We were, we were saying earlier before you started recording that that's one of the most beautiful things about this work is that the principles are the same, but everyone kind of can add their own flavor, what resonates with them.
• 29:59
  John Harold Moore: So people put in shamanic practices or people add music or whatever they happen to be resonating with or their life experience gets infused into the constellation practice.
• 30:13
  John Harold Moore: So that's, that's what happened with me and A Course in Miracles.
• 30:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Wow.
• 30:19
  Tracy Cartwright: And so on.
• 30:20
  Tracy Cartwright: But, uh, I'm just thinking of, like, like I s- was sharing about the, um, Robbie who t- who's doing psychedelics, and then there's Ang who's just been on as well, and he, he's working with AI.
• 30:33
  Tracy Cartwright: So he's actually bringing that into his work as well.
• 30:36
  Tracy Cartwright: So yeah.
• 30:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Interesting.
• 30:38
  Tracy Cartwright: And there could be so many different things that we can bring in, not just, you know, like some people might think, oh, there's Reiki and there's other ways of-
• 30:44
  John Harold Moore: Yeah, yeah… Tracy Cartwright: bringing it.
• 30:45
  John Harold Moore: But, um, you know, it's that, it's that s- s- 'cause it's somatic, and it, there's psychology, and there's the spiritual aspect of it and the multidimensional.
• 30:56
  John Harold Moore: It's really helped me to understand myself, to understand the things that were happening and, and coming through me.
• 31:03
  John Harold Moore: A much more grounded and, and connected way because I wasn't seeing it with other people around me, so I was like… I was going with the narrative, the story that my family had about being a little bit crazy, so.
• 31:15
  John Harold Moore: Okay, okay.
• 31:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 31:17
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 31:17
  John Harold Moore: It, it does o- I mean, when, when someone says something in the knowing field exactly as your mother would have said it- Mm … and the person has never met your mother, you… I can't deny that there's something going on.
• 31:33
  John Harold Moore: There's something that is c- there's a force, an energy, the field that is connecting us all.
• 31:40
  John Harold Moore: There's no way they could have known that.
• 31:42
  John Harold Moore: I mean, I remember bringing my sister, who was a little more skeptical, to one of, um, my first constellations.
• 31:49
  John Harold Moore: Actually, Michelle was facilitating.
• 31:51
  John Harold Moore: I wasn't… I was still learning.
• 31:53
  John Harold Moore: And there was a representative representing our mother, and we hadn't revealed that my mother had a drinking problem yet.
• 32:01
  John Harold Moore: But the, the young woman representing our mother was like, "I almost feel like I'm drunk." And my sister's jaw hit the floor.
• 32:09
  John Harold Moore: She's like, "Oh, my God.
• 32:11
  John Harold Moore: How does she know that?" And I just said,"That's this work." It's- Mm … it goes beyond the, the five senses, you know.
• 32:21
  John Harold Moore: Like, we can all have access to information from other than the five senses.
• 32:26
  John Harold Moore: And I, I share this with my groups in my introduction.
• 32:30
  John Harold Moore: Like, whether you think you have that ability or not, you'll find out today that you do, and you will most likely feel things that you, that aren't you.
• 32:40
  John Harold Moore: Um, and it's not, it doesn't have to be a scary thing, but it's just- The more you can let it flow through you, the more helpful it'll be for you and everyone here.
• 32:49
  John Harold Moore: And it, it might surprise you that you're gonna know things or you're gonna feel things.
• 32:55
  John Harold Moore: I, I had another, another person when I, I was doing, um, constellations when I lived in Houston.
• 33:02
  John Harold Moore: It was a large group, and there was a lot of buzz about it.
• 33:05
  John Harold Moore: And this guy said, "Well, I wanted to hear what all the buzz was about, but I don't really believe that this w- Like, I don't think this really works." And he got chosen to represent… I don't remember what he was representing, but he stepped into the field, into the circle, and immediately dropped to his knees.
• 33:21
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 33:21
  John Harold Moore: And he said, "I do not know why I am on my knees, but I just know that I have to be on my knees." And another believer was created.
• 33:33
  John Harold Moore: Mm. Because it… You just can't deny the experience of being in the knowing field- No … and feeling, uh, feeling whatever it is that's coming over you, whether it's tears or laughter or, "Ooh, I think I'm gonna stand away from that person.
• 33:47
  John Harold Moore: I don't know why." Um- Yeah … it's just so beautiful to see it unfold.
• 33:52
  Tracy Cartwright: I remember having a, a, a young lady.
• 33:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Her mom had brought her along, and she'd sat there the whole time.
• 33:58
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and she looked interested, but ticking over was, "This is bullshit. This is…" And it wasn't until the very last constellation.
• 34:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, she hadn't been picked the whole time.
• 34:08
  Tracy Cartwright: The very last constellation she got chose to represent a missing child, or invited into the field.
• 34:14
  Tracy Cartwright: And she said it wasn't until the moment she stepped in the field and it, and the feelings that she felt and the difference that she felt, it was like… She said, "This isn't bullshit."
• 34:23
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 34:24
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 34:25
  Tracy Cartwright: She said,"Up until that point the whole day, I was a non-believer."
• 34:29
  John Harold Moore: Wow.
• 34:29
  John Harold Moore: Wow.
• 34:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Until
• 34:30
  John Harold Moore: I It, it has its way of-
• 34:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm… John Harold Moore: you know?
• 34:35
  Tracy Cartwright: And I don't know if you've experienced this, but it, it never ceases to amaze me the people that think they're gonna be at a certain workshop or gathering, sometimes something will happen.
• 34:46
  Tracy Cartwright: They'll get lost- Mm … on the way there, or they, they won't be able to log in to the Zoom link, or they can't find the Zoom link.
• 34:54
  Tracy Cartwright: And then someone that had no in- no, uh, idea they were gonna be there, no interest in it, gets taken along, or they find it and they don't know what it is.
• 35:04
  Tracy Cartwright: And- Yeah… John Harold Moore: every supposed to be there is there.
• 35:09
  Tracy Cartwright: And who's not supposed to be at that particular one, for whatever reason, they won't be.
• 35:13
  Tracy Cartwright: And to learn to trust that.
• 35:16
  Tracy Cartwright: And what that brings up for those person.
• 35:17
  Tracy Cartwright: I had that experience.
• 35:18
  Tracy Cartwright: I booked into this, booked into this workshop.
• 35:21
  Tracy Cartwright: I was really looking forward to it.
• 35:22
  Tracy Cartwright: It was online.
• 35:23
  Tracy Cartwright: It was with an Australian colleague.
• 35:26
  Tracy Cartwright: And, um, and then on the day I realized, oh, uh, where's the link?
• 35:30
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, looking at all these different things, and I knew it was about to start.
• 35:33
  Tracy Cartwright: I started panicking 'cause I really wanted to be on this workshop.
• 35:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 35:38
  Tracy Cartwright: And, brr, up rise my inner child feeling lost and abandoned and unseen and, brr.
• 35:43
  Tracy Cartwright: And so I had this big meltdown.
• 35:45
  Tracy Cartwright: I never got onto the, never got on t- to the constellation.
• 35:49
  Tracy Cartwright: But it, what it did was I reached out to another facilitator and, and, um, and he took me through this beautiful process which I now use a lot in my own work.
• 35:59
  Tracy Cartwright: But it was, um-
• 36:00
  John Harold Moore: Wow… Tracy Cartwright: it was around, But, um, e- everything happens for a reason, right?
• 36:07
  John Harold Moore: And it was- Yeah… perfect.
• 36:10
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 36:10
  John Harold Moore: In that moment- Yeah I didn't feel perfect.
• 36:13
  John Harold Moore: I felt like a big pile of mush.
• 36:15
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 36:16
  Tracy Cartwright: But, uh, it was perfect for the things that came from it- Yeah … the resources that came from it.
• 36:21
  John Harold Moore: Mm. And it's helped that knowing, that experience has helped me in my everyday life when something I think should happen doesn't happen.
• 36:31
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 36:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 36:32
  John Harold Moore: Or, like, I can… If I remember, not always, that's for sure.
• 36:37
  John Harold Moore: But if I can translate to that to what happens in a constellation, in the knowing field, like, oh, okay, that wasn't supposed to happen, or oh, this is supposed to happen, or okay, the red light was supposed to keep me from, you know, getting there on time, or whatever the thing is.
• 36:54
  John Harold Moore: If I can release my judgment about what should or shouldn't be happening, then peace returns, just like we release our judgment of, oh, that shouldn't have happened.
• 37:05
  John Harold Moore: My mother should have done this, or my father shouldn't have done that.
• 37:09
  John Harold Moore: And it doesn't mean that, you know, we say, oh, it's okay when someone causes harm.
• 37:14
  John Harold Moore: But if I can pull the camera back and see, okay, what can I learn from what just happened, and how can I move forward instead of getting stuck in that shouldn't have happened, that shouldn't have happened, that shouldn't have happened.
• 37:28
  John Harold Moore: Um, but not always easy, but- No … it, it is so helpful when I can remember that.
• 37:34
  John Harold Moore: And I do think that constellations over the last years have helped me be more accepting when things- Mm-hmm … don't go the way I think they should, and release judgments when things don't… when people don't say or act the way I think they should.
• 37:52
  John Harold Moore: It's, again, not always easy, but it is simple.
• 37:55
  Tracy Cartwright: I hope everyone gets to th- listens to this signs up to your emails because you write the most fascinating emails.
• 38:01
  Tracy Cartwright: I've said that before.
• 38:02
  Tracy Cartwright: But… And in that, you often little stories around how th- things have shifted or where you've seen it in a different light and, you know, it's just, yeah.
• 38:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 38:11
  John Harold Moore: And I'll sh- we'll share those details- Thank you for saying that … at the end.
• 38:13
  John Harold Moore: Appreciate that 'cause I do enjoy… I f- sometimes I forget people read them.
• 38:16
  John Harold Moore: Like, when you said, oh, like, oh, you do?
• 38:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 38:19
  Tracy Cartwright: I do.
• 38:19
  Tracy Cartwright: ' John Harold Moore: Cause I, I just- and, and just that's kind of my offering to the world and, uh, and to let people know about the work I do.
• 38:28
  Tracy Cartwright: But, um, yeah, I just, I enjoy it and because I'm a storyteller, so if, if life has taught me a lesson, I'm guessing someone out there could benefit from the lesson.
• 38:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Maybe they don't have to have such a difficult time with it as I did.
• 38:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you have an archive of your, um-
• 38:46
  John Harold Moore: I do.
• 38:47
  John Harold Moore: I do.
• 38:48
  John Harold Moore: They're on my website, johnharoldmoore.com.
• 38:51
  John Harold Moore: There's a blog page.
• 38:52
  John Harold Moore: So the last five years are all there-
• 38:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm… John Harold Moore: for people to read, and That feels like a good platform to put the new ones up on.
• 39:04
  Tracy Cartwright: I, I don't understand Substack.
• 39:07
  Tracy Cartwright: What's, what's the difference?
• 39:08
  Tracy Cartwright: What's-
• 39:08
  John Harold Moore: It's, it's, um, it's kind of like a Facebook, Instagram kind of thing- Okay … or a blog page, but people can… There's no, there's no ads on it, and people can like and share stories.
• 39:22
  John Harold Moore: It's usually more long-form stories- Okay, yeah … and not just little snippets.
• 39:27
  John Harold Moore: Um, so it's a, it's a place where anyone, like not just the people that are on my email list, can find the stories.
• 39:34
  John Harold Moore: So they just type in whatever the topic is, and my article might come up.
• 39:40
  John Harold Moore: So it'll be a way for other people to find the stories if they're helpful.
• 39:45
  John Harold Moore: Supermarket.
• 39:45
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 39:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Supermarket shopping.
• 39:46
  John Harold Moore: Yes, yes.
• 39:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Maybe you see this
• 39:49
  John Harold Moore: theory there.
• 39:49
  John Harold Moore: You can, you can type in constellations and constellation stories will come up, or you can type in- Okay … miracles and miracle stories will come up, or you can type in, you know, sunsets and sunset stories will come up, or rainbows.
• 40:02
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 40:02
  John Harold Moore: I love your background, that rainbow.
• 40:06
  John Harold Moore: That, um, it, it makes me think of my mom because before, before she passed we were having a conversation about whether she believes in an afterlife or reincarnation or, um… And she told me that she'd let me know that she was thinking about me after she passed because she was gonna have birds poop on my car.
• 40:29
  John Harold Moore: And so sure enough, 'cause my mother had quite the sense of humor, and whenever there's bird poop on my car, I'm like, "Oh, hi, Mom. Thanks for thinking of me." But because of like it's not the best sign.
• 40:42
  John Harold Moore: It's… I have to go get my car washed or it's kinda gross.
• 40:46
  John Harold Moore: So I asked her if we could maybe switch the sign to thunderstorms or rainbows because my mom loved to watch a thunderstorm pass through our neighborhood, and she loved rainbows.
• 40:59
  John Harold Moore: So-
• 40:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm… John Harold Moore: she Um, so I just let go- Give you a little bit of everything?
• 41:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, just every once in a while she throws the bird poop in there just to, uh, get my attention.
• 41:12
  Tracy Cartwright: But that's what I, I keep thinking of as I look at that gorgeous rainbow behind you, that- Oh … oh, that's my mom saying, "She's here," and it's okay that I talk about her.
• 41:21
  Tracy Cartwright: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 41:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Like, my mom, she lived with us for nine years, and then she w- and she was very sick p- particularly towards the end.
• 41:30
  Tracy Cartwright: And we had this pa- um, table tennis paddle.
• 41:33
  Tracy Cartwright: You know the-
• 41:34
  John Harold Moore: Okay.
• 41:34
  John Harold Moore: Yes… Tracy Cartwright: and we stuck a And it, and it, we had the, the other part of the doorbell was plugged into the hallway, and it was… And, and that's where you would hear the ring.
• 41:45
  John Harold Moore: And so because, because she couldn't find it all the time, you know, like, when it was little.
• 41:49
  John Harold Moore: Oh, okay.
• 41:50
  John Harold Moore: So we stuck it on the panel- So you had to put it on something that- … so she could see it easily, and- Yes … yeah, so after she died, 'cause she'd ring it, and my son and I, or my husband, but mostly my son and I, would, would come in straight away.
• 42:01
  John Harold Moore: And she found it quite entertaining to push it sometimes.
• 42:04
  John Harold Moore: And then after she passed away, my doorbell, uh, 'cause we stuck it on the front door, and it would go, and we'd go to the door, and there'd be no one there.
• 42:11
  John Harold Moore: And it, you know, and it was happening quite randomly.
• 42:13
  John Harold Moore: And I, and I'd just go,"Hi, Mom." And nobody-- Yeah we don't even go and check the door anymore.
• 42:19
  John Harold Moore: But recently it was ringing, and one night it rang about 20 times.
• 42:23
  John Harold Moore: And I was like- Wow … "I'm so over this, Mom.
• 42:26
  John Harold Moore: Can you just stop this?
• 42:28
  John Harold Moore: Just stop it." And my husband goes, "Oh, it might be the battery.
• 42:32
  John Harold Moore: Maybe go and check the battery." I opened it up, and there was no battery in it.
• 42:36
  John Harold Moore: Whoa, whoa.
• 42:37
  John Harold Moore: Well done, Mom.
• 42:38
  John Harold Moore: Well done.
• 42:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 42:41
  John Harold Moore: That's… I think your mom and my mom would get along just fine.
• 42:44
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 42:44
  John Harold Moore: The, the fir- the, her first birthday after she passed, I was going on my walk, and I made the mistake of parking under a tree.
• 42:54
  John Harold Moore: I came back from my walk along the beach.
• 42:57
  John Harold Moore: My car was covered.
• 42:59
  John Harold Moore: Like, it looked like s- uh, it was in a paintball s- It was so gross.
• 43:06
  John Harold Moore: Mm. I had to go immediately to a car wash.
• 43:09
  John Harold Moore: I'm like, "Okay, I get it. I, I wasn't gonna miss that sign.
• 43:14
  John Harold Moore: That's a little much, Mom."
• 43:15
  Tracy Cartwright: A celebration.
• 43:17
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 43:18
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, funny.
• 43:18
  Tracy Cartwright: And it's such… Yeah.
• 43:20
  Tracy Cartwright: I mean, the work shows us how interconnected we are and how thin the veil is.
• 43:24
  Tracy Cartwright: But, you know, and having- Yeah … those beautiful ways that we can still connect to our ancestors.
• 43:30
  John Harold Moore: And some people might say, "Oh, John, you just parked your car under a tree, and there was a flock of birds there.
• 43:36
  John Harold Moore: It doesn't necessarily mean that was your mom." And you could say, "Oh, well, there was… Who knows what…" You could come up with some explanation for the doorbell.
• 43:45
  John Harold Moore: But in the end, at the end of the day, it's all just a story.
• 43:49
  John Harold Moore: Mm. And that story makes me feel better that it was my mom.
• 43:54
  John Harold Moore: And w- there's no harm in it that it's not, you know, hurting anyone for me to think that every time a bird- Mm … poops on my car it's my mom if it makes me think of her and, like you were saying, carry her with me in my heart and so she's not forgotten.
• 44:11
  John Harold Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 44:11
  John Harold Moore: So there… You could live that way and try to explain it all away with logic, and you could try to explain family constellations with logic.
• 44:20
  John Harold Moore: Or I like to just open my heart and my mind to the possibility that, yeah, this is, this is a story that feels better, and I can experience more joy and more openness and more love- Mm and more peace by telling this story, so that's the one I'm gonna choose.
• 44:39
  Tracy Cartwright: I like that.
• 44:41
  Tracy Cartwright: I actually really love that.
• 44:43
  Tracy Cartwright: That's beautiful.
• 44:44
  Tracy Cartwright: So for those people who are listening to this and who like to hear the information, would you sh- please share your website?
• 44:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, any, any contact details that you feel people need to hear.
• 44:56
  John Harold Moore: I would love to.
• 44:57
  John Harold Moore: It's… Most everything is on my website, which is just my name, johnharoldmoore.com.
• 45:03
  John Harold Moore: And I, you know what, I purposely added my middle name Harold because that was my father's name, Harold Moore.
• 45:10
  John Harold Moore: Mine
• 45:10
  Tracy Cartwright: too.
• 45:10
  John Harold Moore: Really?
• 45:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 45:12
  John Harold Moore: Interesting.
• 45:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm.
• 45:13
  John Harold Moore: Um, another connection.
• 45:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Right.
• 45:15
  John Harold Moore: Can't make it up.
• 45:17
  John Harold Moore: But, uh, yeah, I hated my middle name growing up 'cause I thought it was so nerdy.
• 45:23
  John Harold Moore: And then after he passed, 'cause he had done a lot of work with the Parks and Recreation Department in my hometown, they named a park after him.
• 45:32
  John Harold Moore: And then I thought I was pretty cool because I had my dad's name in a park.
• 45:37
  John Harold Moore: But anyways, yeah, it's, it's johnharoldmoore.com.
• 45:41
  John Harold Moore: And, um, you can find out about my work, my workshops, my stories, my weekly stories.
• 45:48
  John Harold Moore: All of it is there.
• 45:49
  John Harold Moore: I have a YouTube channel, same, John Harold Moore, and my Substack is Everyday Miracles at John Harold Moore.
• 45:56
  John Harold Moore: So would love- Yeah … to connect, would answer any questions anyone has or, or share this amazing work that we both love.
• 46:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 46:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 46:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 46:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:09
  Tracy Cartwright: It's, uh, it's great.
• 46:11
  Tracy Cartwright: It's… I love that we can connect over, you know, the, the blessing of COVID was that I got to connect with so many amazing souls and, uh, and you're definitely one that touched my heart.
• 46:21
  Tracy Cartwright: And I'm so glad that we get to have this time together now.
• 46:25
  Tracy Cartwright: So thank you.
• 46:26
  John Harold Moore: Likewise.
• 46:27
  John Harold Moore: Likewise- Mm … Tracy.
• 46:28
  John Harold Moore: You're just- Mm … such a bright light, and-
• 46:31
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, it's so
• 46:31
  John Harold Moore: I'm so thankful that you're doing this.
• 46:34
  John Harold Moore: Joining.
• 46:35
  John Harold Moore: I'm so grateful you're doing this.
• 46:37
  John Harold Moore: It's so helpful.
• 46:38
  John Harold Moore: It's so helpful.
• 46:39
  John Harold Moore: Ah.
• 46:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you.
• 46:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Megan Kelly said to me, uh, "You're creating a, a digital library." I was like, "Oh, yeah, I never really kind of thought about it like that."
• 46:47
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 46:48
  John Harold Moore: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 46:49
  Tracy Cartwright: I thought I'd give it a go.
• 46:50
  Tracy Cartwright: I thought, "Ah, you know, I, I love listening to podcasts." I thought, "Oh, I'll give that a go." And I'm… I think my 87th episode has just been released this week, so I'm like, I really love it.
• 47:02
  Tracy Cartwright: I love the whole just that connection and the, you know, seeing what the field wants us to talk about and-
• 47:08
  John Harold Moore: Yes.
• 47:09
  John Harold Moore: Yes … no, no plan.
• 47:10
  John Harold Moore: And you never know who it's gonna touch, who's gonna stumble upon it, and it'll be exactly what they need to hear in this moment.
• 47:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 47:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 47:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, thank you so much for your time, your, um, beautiful heart and the wisdom that you've been sharing with us all.
• 47:26
  Tracy Cartwright: I really appreciate you.
• 47:28
  John Harold Moore: My pleasure.
• 47:29
  John Harold Moore: My pleasure.
• 47:30
  John Harold Moore: Thank you, Tracy.
• 47:31
  John Harold Moore: Blessings to you and everyone listening.
• 47:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you for listening.
• 47:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 47:40
  Tracy Cartwright: You'll find me at tracy.cartwright, that's Tracy with no E .cartwright.
• 47:46
  Tracy Cartwright: And, or head over to my website tracycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 47:56
  Tracy Cartwright: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it