Latest / Talking Italy / "History should be an asset, not a burden": Arturo Galansino on the art of dialogue

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"History should be an asset, not a burden": Arturo Galansino on the art of dialogue · Talking Italy

• Isobel Giles: Hello, I'm Isobel Giles, and this is Talking Italy from Italy Segreta. Each week, I ask my guests to show me their Italy using one Italian word as a window into their world. I hope you enjoy listening. Arturo Galansino is the director general of Fondazione Palazzo Strozzi in Florence, a fifteenth-century Renaissance palace that has become one of Europe's most dynamic contemporary art spaces. Born in a small town in Piemonte, he studied Caravaggio in Milan before working at the Louvre in Paris, as well as the National Gallery and the Royal Academy of Arts in London. Since twenty fifteen, he's brought artists like Ai Weiwei Marina Abramovic, Anselm Kiefer, and Mark Rothko into dialogue with Florence's Renaissance identity. His founding philosophy is that museums should invite, not intimidate. Our word of the week is [00:01:00] dialogo, dialogue or conversation, And Arturo has built his career on creating conversations between past and present, between high art and public life, between Italy and the world. Arturo, welcome to Talking Italy. Arturo Galansino: Thank you. Isobel Giles: Arturo, you once said that museums today must be places of dialogue, not temples of silence. So what do you mean when you use that word dialogue? Arturo Galansino: Okay. The word dialogue. Dialogue, what does it mean is a conversation between two or more people where something is exchanged. Isobel Giles: And what does that exchange typically look like at Palazzo Strozzi? A palace Once at the center of political intrigue and family rivalries, and now at the center of Italy's art scene as a museum that brings major artists to the city of Florence and exhibits them in a way no one has ever done before. What does it mean to create dialogue in a building with that much history? Arturo Galansino: Yes. The building and this city, are the starting point of this conversation, of this dialogue that we try to build, spanning from antiquity to modern and contemporary art. History should be an asset, not a, burden. Isobel Giles: I love that idea of history as an asset and in Florence, a city often described as resistant to contemporary art, it's a particularly interesting idea. How was your work received when you arrived in 2015? Arturo Galansino: Yes. About 10 years ago, we tried to push into contemporary art, a city which was supposed to be reluctant to modernity and contemporary art. At the end, this was just a cliche, of course, this is the cradle of the Renaissance, but the city proved to react very well to this new wave of exhibition, of stimulation, culture stimulation, and contemporary, um, culture and languages. Isobel Giles: You've said your mission was to relive the Renaissance through the lens of contemporary art. What does that look like? What does that mean? Arturo Galansino: Florence has always been a city of innovation. So to me, it's fun that, the cliche of Florence is of a city of the past because actually, uh innovation, many innovation, were born in Florence and many artists, are still inspired by our history, our heritage, and by all the innovation that the artists of the past created in this town. So, to me, the essence of Florence is modernity. And so we wanted to bring many artists, some of the most relevant living artists to challenge the practice in dialogue with our heritage. Isobel Giles: And it's interesting talking about that idea of Florence as a modern city. It's something I think contrasts with what people often see when they look at the city on a surface level. Arturo Galansino: Mm-hmm. Isobel Giles: And I know that prior to moving back to Italy, you were at the Louvre and the National Gallery. What made you come back? Arturo Galansino: I thought that the city had a lot of potential because, uh, there was the potential of filling a gap in the market of exhibitions in Italy. So in this field, something was missing. And what was missing was exactly what we did here. So groundbreaking exhibition of modern contemporary art, able to attract not only a small niche of expert , but a large public. Mm. So to make contemporary art accessible in a country, Italy, where contemporary art, uh, still attract a very limited numbers. Palazzo is a perfect box to display contemporary art. And this is something unique because, the most famous, the most important, living artist, they work much more often in the white cube. So in neutral space, in modern buildings, far from all these, contamination of history, all these layers, all these complexity. So actually this was the recipe of the success to bring contemporary art in a totally different context. Isobel Giles: Well, the numbers speak for themselves. You've done an incredible job. But when you did make that move, you know, you'd been in Paris, you'd been in London, cities often considered the apex of the art world. Did anyone think you were making a mistake? Did you have a conversation in your own mind about that? Arturo Galansino: everybody thought I was crazy, but, this was actually the exciting part of of this challenge, of this move. As I said, I was convinced since the beginning about this move and about this revolution that I wanted to, create here at Palazzo. The same people of the board, that spoke with me during the interview, they were convinced that contemporary art would not have worked in Florence. I proved the, the opposite. I was very convinced about that, and for many reason, cultural logistically, and also because, um, Florence has always been an international city. Everybody loved Florence, and we gave to a lot of people in Italy and all around the world, a good excuse to come back to Florence other than the masters. Isobel Giles: Yeah, and going back to that point on being crazy, you were also quite bold, not only in moving back to Italy, but also in the first artist you chose to exhibit at Palazzo Strozzi in 2016, Ai Weiwei Which you've called a real punch in the face Arturo Galansino: Yes. It was Isobel Giles: lifeboats on the walls of a Renaissance palazzo. And he is, of course, an artist whose work forces dialogue about power, freedom, and who gets to speak. Why did you start with him? Arturo Galansino: The, Ai WeiWei exhibition was our first attempt, the first experiment of a big contemporary art show in Florence. And, yeah, I thought. Weiwei was the, the right artist because he's very bold. Isobel Giles: Mm-hmm. Arturo Galansino: He was, uh, crazy enough to dare to try to bring his controversial art in a totally different city in a totally different context. This exhibition at the time suddenly became the most visit exhibition ever contemporary art in Italy. Isobel Giles: wow. Arturo Galansino: We, we started very strongly and then, uh, you know, we, we brought. Very, controversial, tragic, important topics on the table. Hmm. The issues that, uh, where we, uh, discuss in this exhibition. Uh, were not easy, were not easy ones. You know, we were talking about migration, about the dramatic phenomenon of of migrations about, uh, civil right freedom of expressions. You know, it was not an easy exhibition in term of contents, but actually it was so successful and, uh, we understood that, um, contemporary art could speak about our times to the people. So even if maybe the public at the time were not so expert or, familiar with Some contemporary, art names, uh, they understood that contemporary art could speak something, could say something relevant for their life, for the life and for many situation and issue they were living. And so this, I think, was a very important ingredient. Isobel Giles: And I know during the exhibition something extraordinary happened. There was a fire. Could you tell me what happened during that day? Arturo Galansino: Oh, that was, it was a very tragic, uh, very tragic moment because, um, some people died in a fire, uh, migrants actually, they were. Isobel Giles: In the city of Florence? Arturo Galansino: In the, yeah, just outside the center of Florence. And, there was a, a peaceful protest in the center of the city. And, some hundreds of these protestor, understood that Palazzo was the place to expand their voice. To speak directly with institutions. So they recognized in the art of Ai Weiwei, something that was strongly related with them, so they understood the message of the artist. So to me, this was an important moment because it gave me a sense of the power of contemporary art Isobel Giles: And the power of dialogue... Arturo Galansino: Yes. To all the people, not only, as I said, to the expert, to the people that are involved in this, uh, circle, which is the contemporary art circle, but also to the people that normally they don't go to museums. Isobel Giles: And, you know, did that change the way that you thought about what art can do? Arturo Galansino: I think yes, because it gave me even more the sense of the responsibility that, curator or museum direct, or in general people working in culture must have. Isobel Giles: I'm curious, when you chose Ai Weiwei, were you trying to make a statement about what Florence and what Italy should be talking about? Arturo Galansino: Uh, I normally give to the artist the freedom to speak about what they want. But Weiwei was very smart because he used the Palazzo Strozzi as a symbol of European values that, , were were challenged at the time. Yeah. So, uh, this was a very interesting for us because, it gave us the sense of how this building, could become, a symbol of many things and how the palace could be used by artists to challenge their practice and to say something, new using this old building. Isobel Giles: And you've now had nearly a decade of these conversations. Marina Abramovic, Jeff Koons, Tracy Emin, many of them political and provocative. Arturo Galansino: Mm-hmm. Isobel Giles: What have you learned about how Florence and how Italy responds to that provocation? Arturo Galansino: Uh, first of all, I'm very happy that the palazzos str became an important part, an important step of the career of so many, uh, great artists. The most important, voices of contemporary art of our times. I'm very proud about that because, Palazzo Strozzi. Florence also became a destination for major , contemporary art. And I think this became normal for the city now. The contemporary languages are more frequent, also other institutions, going into this direction, as I said, uh, we create a, a strong public, we are talking about hundreds of thousand people that every year they come to Florence, not for the Renaissance, but mainly for modern and contemporary art. This was a turning point for the city and, very important for the survival of the city as a place of production, of creation, of creativity. Mm. And still, to be a culturally relevant place. Isobel Giles: Well I remember footage from some of your recent installations involving huge teams of locals. You know, you had the cranes and Arturo Galansino: Oh my God, yes. Huge. That was, yeah. Sometimes we face, some technical, uh, let's say issues, uh, because, uh, it is not easy to work with. Massive installations very often, say specific installations of contemporary art in a 15th century building. Very fragile that we, uh, must. And we want, of course, to protect and basically, we cannot touch this palace. We have to work in a totally safe way. But thanks to our engineer, we always find some solution, sometimes solution that, uh, they look impossible. If you think about some recent installations, I know the, the tube slides in the court or some massive sculptures you just said by Tracey or by Jeff Koons And other artists. Yeah. Sometime it looks impossible, but very often we can make it possible. Isobel Giles: You've just finished exhibiting an impressive show of Mark Rothko. You had over three hundred thousand visitors, making it Palazzo Strozzi's most visited exhibition in history. Why did you choose him? Why Rothko? Arturo Galansino: Uh, you know, Rothko is one of the greatest artists of 20th century. He's abstract art is considered a real revolution and, he's one of the most, uh, admired and loved artist by, by the people, uh, going to museums and actually. Not, everybody knows that, he created his, way, his, , abstract style, so unique actually in Florence because Rothko loved our city. Came here, uh, at least two times, maybe three. He doesn't like to travel, but he like to travel in Italy. And, the frescos. Uh, especially early Renaissance Frescos, especially Angelico's ones actually were, , turning point, for his career because he was inspired by the fresco of San Marco, to go into the direction of abstraction, uh, in seeing the paintings as, spiritual, space. Mm-hmm. The fresco that, he saw in San Marco really change his way of looking at paintings in general. And so he learned a lesson, from Angelico. A very important one, and this is something that I think is very interesting about what we just said, uh, Florence, , has been an inspiration for artists for many, many years. So not only for the living artists that we invite here to create in dialogue with Florence, but also for the great master of the modern art. Mm-hmm. And Rothko is a perfect example to prove that. Isobel Giles: Yeah. And this must feel like a real full circle moment for you. you've finished an enormously successful exhibition of Fra Angelico earlier this year, who Rothko was hugely inspired and influenced by, and you had some of their works together in satellite locations in the Biblioteca Laurenziana and the Museo di San Marco in Florence. Could you tell me a bit about those, two places? what's their significance? Arturo Galansino: Yeah. These two places, were very important for Rothko. As I said, the convent of San Marco inspire him into his new style, these color field paintings, and, specifically the San Lorenzo library designed by Michelangelo,, was his source of inspiration for the series of the Seagram murals. So this claustrophobic renaissance architecture was his starting point for this series. Never achieved of paintings that, uh, Rothko was working on. And,, yeah, this is another example how Renaissance, could influence the great master of, modernity. And so it's important for us to create this satellite show. Just to expand exhibition and also to give more visibility to very special places in our city, which are not so well known. Mm-hmm. A good example is San Marco, which was our partner also for our angelic exhibition, the previous exhibition. So Rothko is a kind of spinoff of Angelico in a way. And, uh, yeah. During the Angelico show, San Marco had a great success. The entire world was speaking about this very special, very magical place, that was not so well known. Mm. And they had hundred hundred thousand visitors during the show. And, so this, proved that exhibition could help the city could be, the service of the city in, in many ways, bringing new people, bringing awareness, communication, and visibility economy also. Isobel Giles: , And talking about Florence as a city and tourism within it, the city has around three hundred and sixty thousand residents but welcomes around sixteen million visitors a year. Arturo Galansino: Wow. Isobel Giles: , That's forty-five times more tourists than Florentines, which I think is extraordinary. And obviously there is this ongoing conversation or conflict, let's say, between Florence as a city for those that live here and Florence as a tourist town. What's your opinion on that? Arturo Galansino: This is a problem that, sometimes it's a happy problem because of course, tourism brings a richness economy, and create, work and many jobs of course. At the same time is a risk because it can be dangerous for the surviving of the city in a material way, sometimes it could be dangerous for, the masterpiece, the works, the monuments, et cetera. But also, more in depth in a way because it could, destroy the local, culture. The, flair, the real essence of the city center. I think all the art cities have this problem how to, conserve their identity. Where they face big crowds of tourists every day. Millions and millions every, every year. So I think that, this is a phenomenon that should be, seen as a positive one, but should be managed Isobel Giles: mm-hmm. Arturo Galansino: Carefully just to, make, our city continue being itself for, many, many years, more. Isobel Giles: Arturo, you've said that culture should never intimidate, it should invite. What do you mean when you say that? Arturo Galansino: Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, it is,, about the language you want to speak and how you want to, create a dialogue with your publics? Is really an exchange of visiting a show. And you don't want to teach anything like, uh, you know, like a master to a pupil, but he want really to, entertain a conversation, an exchange. Everybody could find something relevant for him or herself in our exhibitions. I think is, is a big part of our success. Yeah. Isobel Giles: And how do you make someone who has never been to a museum feel this is for me? You know, this is where I want to stay Arturo Galansino: I think a very good, example is our mission of bringing public art in Palazzos STRs, you know, so when I say public art, we are talking about, exhibitions, installation, which are for free, accessible to everybody. So there is a lot of people coming to Palazzo STRs inside our courtier or inside our project space, the space devoted to younger generation, just because they're for free. Maybe they don't want to buy the ticket. They will come next time, but at least we bring them inside, inside the institution. Isobel Giles: Mm-hmm. And as you've mentioned, dialogue or conversation requires two people. You have work that often asks uncomfortable questions about migration, sex, power. I imagine sometimes people don't show up for that conversation. Does that mean that the dialogue, the conversation you were trying to have has failed? How, how do you manage that? Arturo Galansino: We never Organize an exhibition just because we want to attract big crowds to sell out of tickets. This is never, never our goal. We want to create important, relevant exhibition. It doesn't matter if it's an old master show or a contemporary or a modern show. Our first goal is the quality. Of course, when we think about a project, we think in a sustainable way. So, is this exhibition financially possible? So we will be able to find the sponsor. We will be able to sell enough ticket to make it, to make it possible. So this of course is a question, but, , the goal is not selling tickets. It's not having big numbers. So we are very happy and, we think that an exhibition is successful, even if. This exhibition, we have less visitors. You know, for once or twice, this is not a problem. Isobel Giles: Mm-hmm. Now, obviously social media has changed how people experience art. They see Rothko or Fra Angelico exhibition as a 15-second reel on Instagram or TikTok before they step foot here in Palazzo Strozzi. Arturo Galansino: Mm-hmm. Isobel Giles: Does that reframe the conversation that you're trying to have? Arturo Galansino: we know very well that, our telephones, our smartphones became, in the last year, a tool, to explore the reality, also to visit an exhibition and taking picture and post it is part of the experience. We would be very disappointed if an exhibition is just do, would you just do this? It's just for that. But it's just a part of that. I can tell you that, many artists and Rothko is a perfect example, requires something different, a different kind of experience, a different kind of contact of dialogue with the works. And we see that very clear in the exhibition. People take time in front of the works. Isobel Giles: Yeah. Arturo Galansino: Also, the exhibition of Angelica was the same people. Spend a crazy amount of time in front of the works. Well, Isobel Giles: sometimes it's something that can't be captured. Arturo Galansino: Many people cannot believe how many different people, not only art historian, expert and students, but a lot of people just. Lost mind blown, uh, interest in what they were seeing. And this is very rewarding. It's very important for us. Yes. It means that they clicked. Isobel Giles: And how do you feel, you know, when the exhibition is finally set up, for example, Fra Angelico, how do you feel walking around that space and seeing it in full for the first time? Seeing that vision realized? Arturo Galansino: it's so exciting. It's so exciting to me. The exhibition actually ends when it is installed. You know, this is the, for me, this is done. yeah, it is the most exciting moment, of our. Career and of our, our daily life. Yes. When you have, uh, these exhibition installed and you have the privilege to see them growing and to be , the first visitor in a way. And, I think that exhibition can give you a feeling, and you know, at the beginning if the show will be successful or not. I think I, I feel it very often in the gut that, the show will be, uh, would be magic or just an ordinary show. Yes. I can say that we were very lucky because we have many, many magic show in the, in the recent years. Yeah. Isobel Giles: And curation is really an act of love in many ways Arturo Galansino: Mm-hmm. Isobel Giles: Because it's both love for the art, but love for the eyes that you know are going to see that art... Arturo Galansino: For me, it's also understanding, you know, creating an exhibition, curating an exhibition, put the, the paint in the sculpture, the objects in a certain shape to me means, creating a dialogue to speak with somebody sometimes to myself or to somebody. Yeah, I would like to speak an imagery person, an imagery crowd, an imagery public, to say something about, the topic of the show, about the artist. So yes, exhibitions are dialogue. You know, where a perfect example of, conversation because,, many exhibition don't speak to anybody. Maybe they speak to the curator, but know not to the, not to the people. And so you have to think who is very clearly that an exhibition is an act of generosity, is an act of, sharing something with somebody else that very often doesn't speak your language very often, doesn't have your culture, doesn't share the same values. So you have to have this very clearly in mind and you never have to give anything for granted. Yeah. Isobel Giles: Since you arrived in 2015, Palazzo Strozzi has become, as we've talked about, the most successful exhibition space in Italy and one of the most successful in Europe. You've had a huge impact on Florence. I'd love to understand what you think that secret is. You know, why has Palazzo Strozzi been so successful? Arturo Galansino: Yeah. Palazzo became so successful because every time create an event, which is a surprise, which is surprising, which is fresh, which is news. Very often exhibition never done before. Very often unrepeatable, and very often exhibition never done, at least in Italy. And, many artists came here to work for the first time in our country. And this, dialogue, this relationship between past and present is just, he's just unique and there is a lot of care. We, we really love what we do. And I think you already feel when you visit a show, all the details are taken care of. And we, we don't leave. Anything,, unexplored and untouched. I think this love, this care, is something that is part of our success, for sure. Isobel Giles: You've said exhibitions are not answers, they are questions made visible. What's the question that Florence and perhaps Italy should be asking now? Arturo Galansino: Uh, this is a very, very difficult question. I don't know how to, how to answer, but, you know, in a way, you said that before, I think a city like, Florence, but Italy in general should think about, the future. Starting from a very heavy, , past, but as I said past, for us is part of our identity history is, is not a burden. It is our great potential. So the question is really about how to face the future coming from such an important, relevant past. Isobel Giles: What is your vision for Strozzi going forward? Arturo Galansino: Uh, We want to have new challenges. We have to explore new, new ways if possible. As I said, we started recently a new program for a young artist, international artist under 40. This for us, is a, new direction, is a very important ones because we don't want just to, display, the big names of contemporary art, but also create curiosity, a new. A new public for, the younger generation. And this artist could have here a very important opportunity for them to display, to create such specific words in this temple of the arts, in such a, special architecture. So to give the same opportunity, or even if in a smaller scale, that we give to the big name of contemporary are two younger generation. The future. We have, so many exhibition in the pipeline. Uh, Isobel Giles: There's a new exhibition, isn't there? The Power of the Fragment. What's it about? Arturo Galansino: It's very Interesting because it's something we never did is an exhibition, which is is about sculpture. Huh. Which is a very generous topic. Uh, but it's about the fragments, the power of the fragment in the history of sculpture. Isobel Giles: Wow. Arturo Galansino: Spanning from archeology, you know, 3000 years before Christ to contemporary, very contemporary art. And so, thinking about, why the sculpture are broken. Still today, I think about what happened a few years ago in the United States and also in uk, where, some major monuments were destroyed by, Isobel Giles: yeah, Arturo Galansino: by crowd, by people, for political reason. But this happened many times in the past, all over the world. Sometimes, artists like today, even in the past, were creating sculpture already as fragments. Mm-hmm. Because the fragments, you know, aesthetically or symbolically or for religious, reasons was, uh, stronger. Is a unlimited. Topic of research. Of course, we just have a 800 meter squares. It's not so much, so many things will be missing. But it is a very global,, show because, things are coming up just coming from all over the world. And, we are really spanning, through five millennium of, creativity. This is an experiment because we never had a show like that, it is not contemporary. It is not a master is not antiquity. Yeah. It is not a young generation, you know, it's just a new wave of making an exhibition. And we do that with a great partnership with the National Gallery of Washington. So, as you know, perhaps one of the very few institution that, is able to create this kind of strong collaboration with the major, the most important institution worldwide. Isobel Giles: . And talking about present day Palazzo Strozzi, if you could exhibit one historical artist, someone from the past, who would it be? Arturo Galansino: Listen, I'm a lucky guy because I realized all my dreams about exhibitions because when we choose, an historical artist, we want to create an exhibition, which was needed. Something that, in term of artist history, geography, research, was something that was needed not only by the art historian. But yes, our exhibitions, have been so far in my opinion, necessary. Mm-hmm. So, yes, we were lucky enough to, realize many ,dreams, so I don't know exactly what will be. The next show of Arnold Master, we have a project which, I cannot tell you, and we are already working on that. And, hopefully it will be groundbreaking. Isobel Giles: I have no doubt Arturo Galansino: I was lucky. Also about contemporary artists, because I had the, best names, the most important living artist. And at the beginning, maybe I had to convince them to come because they were not familiar about what Palazzo Strozzi was. Now I just, have to say the Magic word, Palazzo Strozzi, and everybody's very happy to work with us. Isobel Giles: Well, it's a testament to you Arturo Galansino: It's a testament to Palazzo because, uh I'm very happy that you say that. Of course. You are flattering my ego, but museum is the, the, the team is, we are very small team. We are about less than 20 people working here and, is incredible what we, achieve, altogether. And the, process is really, shared. Yeah. At all the level of the team. So he is not just having good ideas, he is to start discussing at the beginning under many points of view and together. To create a program to create these exhibitions? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Isobel Giles: Like a family Arturo Galansino: yes. In a way, yes. I prefer to say like a bottega, like a workshop, a renaissance workshop. Isobel Giles: Oh, I love that. Arturo Galansino: Yeah. Where artist at the time, during the Renaissance, they used to work all together. And sometimes also the concept of autography, you know? Mm-hmm. Who is the artist, sometimes very blurred because there is is a common effort. Isobel Giles: Yeah, yeah I love that. So Arturo, after nearly 10 years of creating dialogues between past and present, between Florence and the world, between artists and institutions, what's a conversation that you keep having with yourself about the work that you do? Arturo Galansino: The conversation with myself, is problematic, but this happened to everybody, I'm sure. Is about what is interesting, what is important to me, and. Is this important also to the world? World? Isobel Giles: Yeah. Arturo Galansino: This is something that I ask to myself every time I have to think about the next project, also about a loan to, put inside an exhibition. And, yeah, it's a constant questioning, you know, creating an exhibition, creating a a cultural program is, not an easy task. It's a very beautiful task, of course, but, requires a lot of conversation , with ourself, a lot of questioning, a lot of, , thinking about. I would like to say that what we try to do here is to, bring relevant issues, important topics, important historical research, to a large crowd. Mm. And, we want to make history and also contemporary art relevant for the life of the people. And so my question is how. To make it possible. And, I will never have the answer. So far we are going well,, but of course we cannot be, uh happy about ourself because, is a process that doesn't have any end. Isobel Giles: Yeah, yeah. And where is it that you go to do your thinking? I know you're a big horse rider. Is it when you're riding? Arturo Galansino: But yes. Horse riding is very good for thinking. Uh, but as you know, I am a show jumper, so it's better that I think about the jumps, not about art, when, when I ride. But of course, being, uh, with, with horses and with my animals in general is very, is a very relaxing process. And, uh, is something that set up , your brain into the right frequencies for meditation, for speculation, for thinking in general. Sometimes you have the answers, in the moment when you don't expect, when you're just not thinking about it. Yeah. Isobel Giles: When you're leaping over a fence. Arturo, our final act. I'm going to ask you five quick-fire questions. You don't need to think, just answer Arturo Galansino: okay. Isobel Giles: Favorite place in Italy Arturo Galansino: uh, you know, uh, I live in Florence. My answer is to this question is for sure Florence. Otherwise, I could not walk in the city again, Isobel Giles: Go-to Italian dish and where you eat it Arturo Galansino: Uh, again, I'm a very lucky, lucky boy because my mother and my sister are the best cooks in the world. So going back home in Piemonte and to eat Piedmontese food cooked by their hands is to me the best, experience. Isobel Giles: And what's their best dish? Arturo Galansino: Oh, there are so many things. Really. There are so many things. Uh, one of the things I prefer about, uh, Peamont is, Vitello tonnato is something that Thank you. Is, is great all over, all over the places in Italy, but there has a special legacy, Isobel Giles: Especially when cooked by Mum. Okay, essential Italian book, film, song or work of art Arturo Galansino: book. We spoke about art. Let's mention some books, because of course we have a great literary history in this city, in this country, of course. But I would say Il Barone Rampante by Calvino is, a book that, is good, for any ages. Isobel Giles: Ah, Calvino's The Baron in the Trees Arturo Galansino: Yes. you Can read it as a boy, as a child also, and, you can read it for all your life and is about, being against convention, taking distance and trying to find a different perspective in life, in a very peaceful and individual way, which is, I think a very good, model to follow today Isobel Giles: well, your description, it makes it sound very comparable to you. your favorite Italian expression Arturo Galansino: Ah. Oh, there are so many. I love our language. It really is. Uh, it's so rich speaking, Isobel Giles: especially expressions Arturo Galansino: speaking with foreigner. Every time you have to explain some expression, they laugh. It's, it is so, so nice to, to see that. But I like, uh, also because I'm a country boy, I like 'non meniamo il can per l’aia'. Do you know this expression? No. What does it mean? It's, it's very, very weird. Basically, it means to walk with the dog in the courtyard where, they trash the wheat. Ah. And so it means a very useless, action, because you should do that with heavy animals such as, uh, the cows, the donkey, because with their feet they can destroy the wheat. Doing that with the dog is very, is very useless, but to think about the image is so funny. And so it's, it's an expression that I use very often . Isobel Giles: So what's a typical sentence you would, you would use with that? Give me an example. You know, how would you say... Arturo Galansino: uh, you know, when you are, you know, just wa wasting your time in a useless discussion or just thinking too much about doing something, you know, you don't, uh, have any action, but just, okay, non meniamo il can per l’aia. Isobel Giles: I love it. I'm definitely going to start using that from now on. Arturo, finally, what has Italy taught you? Arturo Galansino: Beh, Italy has taught me to be creative. Hmm. Uh, to have hope even in difficult situation and to enjoy beauty because, being back, in Italy after more than 10 years abroad in very beautiful city, in amazing cities, and always surrounded by art. So, you know, I had a very beautiful life in this sense. But yeah. But living in cities like Florence, but also other cities in our country, also some historical village is something that, uh, is, uh, just unbelievable. It makes your life richer, history makes your life better. So we are very lucky. We are very privileged to live in a, in a country like this. Isobel Giles: Arturo Galansino, thank you so much for your time and for talking us through Dialogo, dialogue in your own words. Isobel Giles: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Talking Italy and my conversation with Arturo. Next week, we'll be speaking with Monica Stambrini on eroticism. Subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss out. Ciao ragazzi, see you next week