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Bengals Booth Podcast: Keep On Working · Bengals Booth Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I get everybody on dan Horde and thanks for downloading
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast the Keyphone Working Keyphone Working Edition
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: because I discuss a variety of off season topics with
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Bengals dot Com editor Jeff Butch Hobson. The Bengals Booth
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  Speaker 1: by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest
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  Speaker 1: thing since American Kings. That's the name of a book
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: by Seth Wickersham that came out last September about the
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  Speaker 1: court position. As Wickersham writes, it's the American equivalent of Royalty,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: our country's ultimate idol, requiring single minded focus while navigating
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a maze of bad breaks, insecurities, jealousy, pressure.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And fame.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Joe Burrow is not prominently featured, but many of the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: all time grades are, as well as current quarterbacks and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: some up and comers. It's an inside look at a
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  Speaker 1: uniquely American job. If you love football and writing, I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: think you'll enjoy American Kings. Now here's my conversation about
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the latest Bengals news with Bengals dot com editor Jeff
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Butch Hobson Butich. Everybody in the AFC North will have
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a new head coach except for the Cincinnati Bengals next year. Baltimore, Cleveland,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and Pittsburgh obviously have changes coming up. Furthermore, the Steelers
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: will probably have a different starting quarterback for the sixth
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: consecutive year. I'd be surprised if Aaron Rodgers's back. The
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Browns are surely looking for an upgrade from Shador Sanders.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: You would think he had more touchdown or fewer touchdowns
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: than interceptions as a rookie. So here's my question after
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: that prelude, are the six and eleven Bengals the team
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: to beat in the AFC North in twenty twenty six.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I don't think they can say that, and I don't
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: think Zach Taylor will say that because I think he's
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: looking for his team to have an edge.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: I think they played better when they have a chip
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: on his shoulder.
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  Speaker 3: I remember Teddy Krris talking about this last year when
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: they got off to a slow start.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: He said, you know, there was too much super Bowl talk, you.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Know, early on in the spring and the OTAs of
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty four.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: I think the leaders, I think the leaders of.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: This team will not We'll try to stay away from that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: On paper, I would say yes, but we've lived it.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: This is the National Football League. Paper does not translate.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: You know, Gerid Mayo, first head coach coming into a Cincinnati,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: coming into Cincinnati on opening day with a coaching staff
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: that had been in place, a roster had been in place,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: and in the first non Belichick game, the Patriots win
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: a game they weren't supposed to win. So I think
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: probably Zach and Orlando and Ted and other guys have
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: lived through that, and I just don't.
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  Speaker 4: And it's the AFC North.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's Demolition Derby, you know, doesn't matter. Nothing
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: seems to matter. So no, I don't think it's it's
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: an edge.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: The Ravens fired John Harbaugh after eighteen mostly good seasons
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: and won Super Bowl title. The Bills fired Sean McDermott,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: who took Buffalo to the playoffs in eight out of
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: nine years, but couldn't get to a super Bowl with
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Josh Allen. Naturally, a lot of people are comparing that
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: to Cincinnati and the Bengals sticking with Zach Taylor. There
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: are a few differences. I would like to point out.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: John Harbaugh, as I mentioned, got eighteen years, and while
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: he did win a Super Bowl, that was the only
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: one he got to. He's had Lamar Jackson for the
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: last eight Sean McDermott had Josh Allen for eight as well,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: he did not get to a super Bowl. Zach's had
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: seven years total, so he hasn't had as many bites
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: at the apple as the other guys have. He has
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: been to one Super Bowl. His great starting quarterback, Joe Burrow,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: has been in the league for six years but only
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: healthy for three. So I do think there are differences
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: that defend holding on to Zach Taylor.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: What do you say about it?
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: I agree, I mean, we're talking about McDermott, a great coach,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: but Zach's been to one more super Bowl than he has,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: and really, you know, Burrow. Burrow has been to the
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Super Bowl more, you know, more than Alan and he's
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: been there almost as many. I mean, Lamar has never
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: been there. So you know, I think Zach's got one
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: up on high Ball there. And remember there this farway.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: How far are they away from going to two?
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: Right? Okay?
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Are they a punt return away, a penalty away? Whatever
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: it was that you know, the the last horrific minute
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: in Kansas City in twenty twenty two. So yeah, I'm
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: not ready. I don't think he can put for many
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: different reasons. I don't think he can put Zach in
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  Speaker 3: the same class as high Bah and McDermott and you know,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: or even Tomlin because you know, Tomlin and Hardball have
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: been in it for so long. But you know, Zach's
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: got a five and two playoff record, so I I
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: you know that's something that's it is now.
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, he hasn't been back in three years. I get it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: But there have been, you know, there have been circumstances that.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: You alluded to, and you know, let's face it, you
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: got to look at the organization that Zach is working for.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: It's he's working for a guy that believes in continuity
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Mike Brown in his family in Duke Tobin, the director
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: play personnel. The people call them the shots. You know
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: they've they've been in this thing a long time, and
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: you know they believe in continuity, and you just have
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: to look around.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: You know. One of the reasons how Bond Tomlin were
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: so successful.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I've talked to Mike about this before. I know you
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: have too. Is Mike phrases it, and in a way
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that only he can. I like it when my people
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: are all singing from the same hymn book. Yes, that's
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: kind of how he describes continuity. But I do think
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: that Mike's belief is that history shows you that more
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: often than not. And this is obviously not universally true,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: but more often than not, when you make a coaching change,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: you're likely to take a step backward before taking steps forward. Now,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: there were some notable exceptions to that. This year, Ben
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Johnson knocks it out of the park. Mike Rabel knocks
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it out of the park. So it doesn't always work
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: out that way, but again, more often than not, when
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: you make a change, you tend to go back and
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: then maybe take strides forward. Mike doesn't want to sign
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: up for that at this stage of Joe Burrow's career,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and I don't think Bengals fans want to take a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: step back before going forward. So I think that's a
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: big part of this. And I just think, in very
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: simple terms, Mike Brown thinks that Zach Taylor is a
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: good coach who's had some circumstances beyond his control. People
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: fairly say they haven't been to the playoffs for three
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: straight years, but I really look at it as two
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: because three years ago when the streak began, that team
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: was going to the playoffs. When Joe Burrow hurt his
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: wrist right, they had everything cooking, They went on the road,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: beat San Francisco, dominated Buffalo, they were ascending, They were
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: on their way to having another one of those seasons,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and then he winds up missing the last seven games,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: nine games whatever.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: It was Albie almost, I mean, you can make an
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: agumen Zach should have been in the running for coach
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: of the Air in twenty two twenty three, just barely
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: missed going for the backup quarterback.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it helped Brian Callahan get the Tennessee job.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: The fact that they hung in there with Jake Browning.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: But still I think this is really two years of
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: missing the playoffs and again this year you didn't have
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Joe for nine games. So just to you know, sum
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  Speaker 1: the whole thing up, I think that Mike Brown believes
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: that Zach Taylor is a good coach, and he's willing
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to give him at least one more crack at it
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: this coming year.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no way Mike was going to let a
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: guy go after a season as quarterback miss nine games.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: That wasn't gonna happen.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: And because he's fair, because Mike's a fair guy, maybe
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: one of the last in sport. But you know, also too,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you got your head coach is running the offense, and
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: what's the strength of your team?
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: You know, the strength of your team is.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: That offense, is that system you get rid of, Zach,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: where are you? You may be more than you know,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe you got a pissed off franchise quarterback and
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: and you're two or three years of the whole. So yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, I could certainly see how they
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: ended up where they did.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, head coach quarterback synergy is so important everywhere, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Mike believes he has that with Zach and Joe. It
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: seemed to be fraying in Baltimore between Harbor Lamar, Josh
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Allen and Sean McDermott seem to have a good relationship
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: in Buffalo, but again, after eight years with Josh Allen
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and no Super Bowl trips, their ownership, led by Terry Pagola, said,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you know, we have to make a change after nine years.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think too kind of reading into that
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: a little bit behind the scenes, if it can be believed,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: they were not singing from the same hymn book. In fact,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: there seemed to be various pamphlets scattered about, you know
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: that the organization was split on personnel coaching, and I
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: guess it didn't end well as it probably shouldn't if
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: it's if there's that much of a split. Yeah, that's
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: how these things, you know, that's how these things usually,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: you know, usually end.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: In the Buffalo case, it sounded like GM and head
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: coach were no longer on the same page. And that's
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: not the case with Zach and Duke. They obviously have
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: their differences from time to time, but by and large,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: they may they've maintained a very good connection and relationship.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, what goes on in the
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: draft room. I think is very important too. It's not like,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: you know, Duke is going in there with a bag
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: over his head and just making the choices.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: You know, he's he's making you know, he wants to
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: make sure Zach is Zach is on board with his stuff.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: So I think it's a you know, I don't think
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: it's a you know, I think it is.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: You know, they hear a lot of that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: You hear a lot of the word when you hear
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: the Bengals speak Duke and Zach, you hear a lot
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: of collaborative. Well, that's not a buzzword. That's what they
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: actually do because that's what Mike lives by. Mike has
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: always lived by, uh, you know, his his he kind
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: of runs his I was kind of like Jonathan Kennedy
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: ran his oval office. He didn't have a he didn't
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: have a hierarchy, a kind of a pyramid. He's kind
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: of had a people around him and sympthesizing ideas and
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: taking opinions and reaching consensus, and uh, you know, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: think really that's a kind of a rational way to go.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: How about you going, JFK.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I I usually do as Paul Danner Junior will tell
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: you at some point in the conversation if I if
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: I don't utter JFK or Dallas, then I am probably ill.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: You mentioned Duke Tobin. It's been a couple of weeks
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: since his eagerly anticipated news conference that generated a lot
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: of headlines around the Cincinnati area. Did you have any
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: big takeaways after listening to Duke for sixty three minutes?
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know, not really the main The main takeaway
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: to me was how they really they got to fix
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: the defense.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: They know it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: And it seemed to me and you tell me, I'd
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: be interested to hear what you think about this is.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: I thought he was very open to the idea of
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: replicating twenty twenty one in free agency. I think he
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: realizes that that was you know, that that was you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: if they can do that again, they're in good shape.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: And I you know, he didn't. He was also open
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: to the idea of structuring contracts.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: It sounded like, you know, and that's what I took
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: about it is also, you know, he kind of reminded
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: us that you know, hey, it's only you know, four
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: years ago we were writing about what a great personnel
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: department this was, and that you know, these these same
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: people are trying to get the Bengals back to the
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: super Bowl.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: They've done up before.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: But it was interesting to hear him talk about, you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: getting back into free agency big and you know, maybe
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: they maybe they changed their approach a little bit in contracts.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: That's that, I mean, that's what That's what it sounded
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: like to me, that they were open to the idea, right.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I think that the biggest thing to come out of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it was even a little bit more specific than that,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: in my view, and that was we need pass rushers.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: It's not enough to just.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Hope that our young guys that we've drafted are going
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: to keep getting better and suddenly we'll have an elite
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: pass rush. I think Duke flat out said we need
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to add pass rushers, so free agency, first or second
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: round draft pick, maybe both, who knows, but I think
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: he very specifically said that's a deficiency.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: That we have to attack.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And I agree with you. I think some of that's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: going to happen in free agency. For all of the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: criticism that the Bengals take over some of the protracted
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: battles that they've had over contracts and how they've structured
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: some things over the years, it has left them in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: good shape. Even after giving Joe Burrow his contract, Jamar
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and t these massive deals, the Bengals still find themselves
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: eighth in effective salary cap space. That does give them
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the ability to add significant players on defense, and I
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: think they will.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how many teams could sign
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: those contracts, those three mega contracts and still have the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: flexibility they're going to have in free agency. Now people
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: will yeue and say, well, that's why they're not going
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: to the playoffs. Well, I mean, I you know, you've
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: got to build a team. I mean, you can't. Everyone
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: can't be that. You can't have the number one pick
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: every year and you can't and you can't make everybody
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: the highest paid at their position. So I mean there
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: is something to be said for having as much talent
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: as they do.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: And still having camp flexibility.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Now, you know that's you know, that's because of the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: way they structure stuff, and they get hambered on the
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: way they structure. But you know, when you look at
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the ten thousand foot view, I mean, what makes the
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: team better.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So if you look at lists of the top NFL
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: free agents for twenty twenty six, Trey Hendrickson is often
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: listed number one. He's certainly listed in the top three
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: or four. What happens with Trey? I think there are
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a couple of realistic possibilities. I don't see an extension
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: happening with Trey. I mean, they've they've tried for the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: last couple of years. They've tried, He's tried. They just
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: haven't been able to find the middle ground. I can't
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: imagine them finding it now. So they could let him go,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: which would give them a draft pick, a third round
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: draft pick, not in this year's draft, but in next
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: year's draft. Or they could try to tag and trade
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: him in order to get a draft pick this year,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: probably about the same type of draft pick, But there's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: a risk involved. If you tag him, the dollar figure
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: is going to be somewhere north of thirty million bucks.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: What if nobody out there wants to make a trade
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: for Trey at that dollar figure and he signs, and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: now you're back where you were this year with a
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: you know, a frosty relationship with a guy who would
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: be one of your highest paid players. I'm not sure
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: if they're willing to take that risk.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Well, again, the beauty of how they manage the cap,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: they have the ability to move on from Trey.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: If they'd like to.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: And uh again, you know, I think that's how they
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: have managed to get all that all that talent on
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: offense and still have the room to go get you know,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: maybe not, you know, maybe not you can't get the
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: borrow of equivalent pass rusher. But who's the nex Hendrickson
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: or maybe you know, maybe get a couple of veteran
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: guys who have had good seasons. They have the ability
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: to do that. Now, yes, and and and which is
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: which is? And they could go different ways. They could
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: find you know, Trey was an ascending player on his
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: con on his second deal.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: They love those guys. Who doesn't.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: But you know, you could also maybe go, hey, get
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: some vets who still have some you know, who still
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: have some choose maybe.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: Get a couple of them, you know.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: So, like I said, it's it's it's the and I
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: would hate to see Hendrickson go. But I'm kind of
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: with you. I don't know what the you know what
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: the you know what the next option is. I mean,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: the guy's the greatest. You'd have to say he's the
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: greatest past pass rusher in the history of the of
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: the Bengals are pretty close. The numbers, don't you know
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: the numbers. You know, you give it to Eddie Edwards.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: But he's certainly the greatest four year stretcher. He stretching
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: anybody's had rushing this passer here, and he's certainly the greatest.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: Free agent of Bengals history. You'd love to see him
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: stay around and get his name up on a ring
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: of honor.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: But it's you know, uh, like I said, there's they're
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: they're flexible enough that maybe you know, they can grab
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: the next Hendrickson or grab you know, some guys who
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: were some some vets in their late twenties who have
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: had some good years and have something left.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: They did reach one year contract extension with a veteran
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: on offense this week, but it wasn't the one that
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: most of us are interested in. They signed Tanner Hudson,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: not Dalton Reisner, at least not yet. Do you expect
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Dalton Riisner to be the starting right guard next year?
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I think somehow they hammered out, you know, before free agency.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I think I think that uh some I mean, given
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: how much Dalton would like to be here, I think
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I could see that getting done, but they.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Got you know, they also have flexibility there too.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I think they liked what they get out of their
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: fifth round pick in Jalen Rivers. I think, you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: and Dalton has said this before. The future is obviously
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: you know, fair Child and left guard and Rivers a right,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: but Dalton clearly has you know, looks like he's got
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: at least a.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Couple of years left at least, maybe more so. And
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: he's great for the room, you know. So I mean,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: I think that's uh.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: I think that's something they'll try, and they'll try, you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: given how vocal Dalton has been, I think that's something
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: they'll try to address.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I think it'll get done. But I always caution people
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to keep in mind, we don't know what he's asking for.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: He did not sign with anybody this last season until
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: a week before the season began, when the Bengals you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: picked him up. And why didn't any team in the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: NFL sign him last year? Well, he was probably asking
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: for more than anybody who was willing to pay. That
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: just seems logical to me. So, you know, if he
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: wants a huge jump from the one point two mil
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: that he got this year and if he wants who
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: knows how many years at age thirty, then it becomes tricky.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: But as you said, he clearly wants to be back.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: The Bengals want him back. I think they they find
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the middle ground at some point. But you know it's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: not just as easy as snapping your fingers and saying okay,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: it's done.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, right, that's that's the thing. I mean.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: People are outraged that, you know, they don't have DJ
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Turner in the fold yet. Well, I mean that's a
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: two way street there, you know what I mean.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: I mean they'd love to get DJ Turner, you know,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: locked up and his agent would love to get you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: would like to somehow get a d That's where they
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: of a guy going to the market, not of.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: A player after his third season.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: So you know, it takes I hate to say it,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: I hate to throw a cliche out there, but.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: It takes two to tango. It's a two way street,
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: however you want to say it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up DJ Turner because that draft
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: class is now eligible for contract extensions. You have to
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: be in the NFL for three seasons before teams can
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: even do that, So here we go. It's it's proven
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to be an excellent draft class. Miles Murphy looked like
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: he might not work out, and then this year he
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: really came on. Now you feel like he's a significant
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: part of their future going forward. DJ Turner could have
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: easily gone to the Pro Bowl this year. Chase Brown
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: has proven to be one of the best all around
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: running backs in the NFL. Jordan Battle looks like a
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: core guy going forward, especially if you compare him with
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: maybe an upgrade from Geno Stone. So of all of
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: those guys that I just described, who's the priority to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: try to get something done with first?
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: All of them?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, because I think, well.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: DJ, DJ would be first on my list.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't you start from the top, right, And
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: and I if I'm not mistaken, Murphy has an option.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting one.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, are you willing to give him that kind
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of money based on, you know, two thirds of a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: pretty solid season.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think I think you do that.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I think you try to try to get DJ in
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: the fold and uh, you know Chase Brown, and uh
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: see what you can do with Battle. I mean, I
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: probably be hard to sign all those guys, But maybe not.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I mean again, it depends how much they want to
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: be here, what they're looking for. You know, I think
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: a guy like uh, it's hard to say, because a
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: guy like Chase he fits so well at Chase.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: Brown, he fits so well into the community. He's got
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: a couple of local got a couple of local deals.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: You know, fans love him. He's charismatic, he's he's a
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: terrific player. You know, you can seeing him on a billboard.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: So you know, that makes sense to us, But does
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: it to him? You know what I mean, it makes
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: sense to the Bengals, but you know, you don't know
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: what you don't know what the other guy is thinking.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know Jesse Bates. We felt that way
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: about Jesse Bates. He is such a great fit. You know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: he was a billboard guy, you know. So, but they
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: had a high time get you know. I mean, I
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: think Jesse Bates's agent ended up being T Higgins his agent,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: and I think T Higgins got rid of his guy
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: right to sign a deal.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: So who knows what, who knows what's in the offing.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: They'd love to have all those guys, I mean, I mean,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: it's a good point, Dan, I mean, you know, the
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: their draft classes have been just getting pummeled this year.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: You know, the more they lose on the field, the
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: more they you know, the the more pummeled they get.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: And you kind of take a step back and in
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: this decade, look at their first rounders. You know, Burrow,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Chase Himarius Mims, Murphy on the come, Dax Hills one
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: of their best defensive players.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: You know, the twenty three class.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, some guys didn't work out, but I mean,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I think if you look at it as a whole,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: they've got guys who are going to be contributing. You know,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: more than that, they're going to be starters, and they're
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: going to be you know, guys like Dak Sill, Chase Brown,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, Jordan Battle, DJ Turner the second. I mean,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: these guys they're up, but you know they're want They're
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: the leading players.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: At their positions.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: You have started the mock draft process on Bengals dot Com.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: I apologize for that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm ready. I'm ready for draft season. Yeah, I
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: don't like it during the season, but once the season
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: is over, I'm ready. The two games that I think
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: have most frequently been mocked to the Bengals on the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: various mock drafts that I've looked at all over the place.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Our past rusher David Bailey out of Texas Tech. He
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: had fourteen and a half sacks this year in Ohio
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: State safety Caleb Downs, who's an Austin player. They were
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: both gone on the.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: First Let's just get it over a lot.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Let's just let's just get out here, just let's get
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: our hands around it. They're not going to be there, okay,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: and forget it. Okay, what's wrong with Sonny Styles? I'm
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: a Sunny Styles guy. First of all, I love his name.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you want to linebacker? Do you want
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a linebacker in the first round?
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: I mean I could, yeah, I think I want. I
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: think I want.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I want a guy who runs like a safety, tackles
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: like a safety, but he's big enough to play linebacker.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: That's kind of enticing to me. I mean, I get it.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: You know, uh uh he's not. I mean, geez, the
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: guy uh uh Reese is going Reese plays the same
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: position right and is uh and he's going as high
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: as second. So best defensive player on the board would
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: be Sonny Styles. Maybe not, But do you want to
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: draft a corner with Jackson and DJ Turner.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Do you want to draft a corner there?
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I mean no, I don't. I want a defensive lineman,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: assuming that somebody is there at number ten that they
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: have with a top ten grade.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, the highest, the biggest, the biggest defensive player. If
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: it's not a tackle, then it's an edge. If it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: not an edge, then it's a tackle.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I agree with you, But what if for Caleb Downs.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I'm down for Caleb Downs because I think the talent
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and need is a perfect match all the.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: Names we've mentioned, somebody's going to be there at ten.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, like you.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Know, like we're saying Downs and Bailey won't be there.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: One of them will probably be there. Or if not,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: or if not, a guy that we think is going
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: to be gone won't be gone. If it's an offensive player,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: that's that's the tough thing is there's not going to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: be you know, there's no there's not going to be
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: run on quarterbacks, right, only one quarterback is probably going
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: to be gone, which is, you know, doesn't help the Bengals.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: You know, there's doesn't seem to be going to be
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: a run on offensive tackles, which doesn't help the Bengals.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: So you know, a couple Edgers and a big d
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: tackle are probably going to be gone by the time
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: they pick.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I bet two quarterbacks are gone. I bet that's the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: way it turns out. I think Ty Simpson of Alabama
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: winds up in the top ten a lot.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Somebody always makes a run. Somebody talks them, somebody talks
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: themselves into it.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Right, Mendoza goes number one overall. I bet tom ty
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Simpson gets picked in the top ten as well.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: It's going to be interesting.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: The Bengals have not used a top ten draft pick
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: on a defensive player since Keith Rivers. Now, they haven't
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: had that many top ten picks, but Burrow Chase unfortunately
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: John Ross didn't work out. By and large, when they've
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: used the top ten pick on an offensive player, they've
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: done really well. Now, the likelihood is it's going to
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: be a defensive guy, and let's see if they can
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: get an impact player along the lines of some of
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the names I just mentioned. You know, AJ Green obviously
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: another time top ten pick on offense. Let's get a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: defensive guy that's like that.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean that would be I mean, that's that's
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: that's you know, if you get at Jamar Chase.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Or a J Green or a.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Somebody like that on defense. I mean, that's the dream.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's the dream. I mean, but it's such.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: A it's such a tough spot.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: In the draft. You know, they always talk about a draft,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: a first round. What there's maybe tops, there's seventeen sixteen,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: seventeen eighteen, real first round picks.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Well, now you're getting in the second. You're getting in
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: the second tier there.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, you know they picked up you know,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, Andre Smith was a guy. I mean, you
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: can talk, you know, you can debate Andrey Smith I want,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: but he was a solid right tackle on winning teams.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: You know, played a decade.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly. You know you talk about aj you know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Chase Borrow. But it's an interesting it's an interesting question
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: about why the top ten defensive players haven't panned out
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: like the top ten offensive players.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So Dan Pitcher, in addition to interviewing for the head
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: coaching job in Cleveland, has also been given the green
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: light to interview for the offensive coordinator position with Tampa Bay.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Zach Taylor giving him the chance the interview for jobs
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: where he would be the play caller since he is
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: not the play caller in Cincinnati. If Dan gets one
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: of those jobs, does Brian Callahan come back?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Is it that simple?
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, we all got a college education here, right.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I guess it does sound to me like it would
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: be that simple. But you know, the covered is the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: covered is full around here with guys that are talented
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: and and you know, Troy Walters is a talented guy
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: who's been an offensive assystem at the top at the
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: top level in college. You know, Justin Rascatti is the
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: passing game coordinator, very capable guy. And this is no
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: knock on Pitcher because pitchers obviously, he's been Joe Barrow
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: literally Joe Burrows right arm since he came into the league.
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: And look how well he's played. We all know what
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: a great coach Pitcher is.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's no question this guy is a coach
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: on the com He's going to be a head coach
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: at some point, you know, but he's going to make
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: the call.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: He's got to show these other guys.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: You know, he's been a one place for ten years
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: and he's got to show guys he can call plays.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: I guess I mean to me, that seems to be
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: you know what he you know, what he feels like
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: he has to do. And uh, but I think you know,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: to Zach's credit, he surrounded himself with bright guys who
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: know his scheme. So you know, yeah, Cali is the
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: obvious choice. I mean what, they're best friends.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: So it would be stunning to me to see if
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Pitch left, if Callahan didn't come in. But then I'm
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: you know, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm surprised.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: If it's news, it's news to me, right.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: So we've We've got the college football All Star Game
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: circuit getting underway shortly. What's on the Bengals dot com calendar?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Will you be off to the Senior Ball?
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: I Am not going to go to the Senior Bowl
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: this year because we got Duke this year. So we'll
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: work the phones though, and I'm going to work on
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: a Paul Brown's story about Paul Brown's relationship with the
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Senior Bowl. He coached like the first ten years of
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: or he coached ten years consecutive in the Senior Bowl.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: He loved to coach the game. So I was going
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: to try to get behind that a little bit. Look
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: at that and Mike mccathey is down there, the Bengals
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: assistant offensive line coach. We'll hook up with him, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: I think this week looking at a little bit, you know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: the Bengals added scouts. I know that kind of went
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: under the rate, that went under the radar because of
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the season, but they added some scouts and Trey Labonte
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: is an interesting guy who's as a little comes at
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: He's coming at the personnel end of it from the
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: analytics standpoint a little bit. He's not only helping Sam Francis,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: but he's helping the scouts and kind of getting an
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: analytical It's something that they've done, but Trey gives them
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: a little bit more of an analytical.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Bent to it.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: The Stanford's he's a Stanford grad, played for a year
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: at Miami Ohio.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Interesting guy.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: I gonna look to see how he fits in and
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: how that how the new scouts have kind of, you know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: kind of changed the face of the patment a little bit.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: And so yeah, we're off and running, Hordy. The the
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: off season is busier than the regular season, right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: There is news every day in the NFL. That's for sure.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: It's unbelievable.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: It's uh, you know, it was once upon a time
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: you'd go to Indianapolis to the scouting combine and they'd
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: throw you out.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Now now you need to now you need a passport
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: to get in.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking forward to that.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: That's always fun to be around all of those draft
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: gurus and pick their brain a little bit and try
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to get some good intel on guys that wind up
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: eventually wind up playing for Cincinnati.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: So that's not too far.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I got my great co cell, Dan Hoyd. But that's pencil.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Then you always want to hear that.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: That's what happened.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: That's always a treat YEP.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Greg is the best. So on that note, I
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: will let you go.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your time as always, and I look forward
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to seeing you face to face as opposed to a
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: zoom sometime soon.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Hordy, keep them, keep them straight, and always great to
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: be with the hottest work command and show business.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of the
• 32:30
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• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to the Bengals
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Booth podcast.