Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / TikTok’s Algorithm to Be Secured by Oracle in Trump-Backed Deal

Transcript

TikTok’s Algorithm to Be Secured by Oracle in Trump-Backed Deal · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk tech.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: There's a lot going on out there. I want to see.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: I'm doing this for John Tucker. He's a big TikTok
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: per person here, and he's really interested to see what's
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: going to be happening at this what's his handle with
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: what you.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Love those thirty second videos about really stupid stuff.
• 0:38
  Speaker 5: Thinks on rumbas, Right, kats.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Gotta have it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: That's why when we talk about cats and roomors, we
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: talk to our senior technology analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, man
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Deep sing On, Rona Mandeeps here in our studio on
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: a Rocks in our Chicago bureau. Let's just talk Mandeep,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: just what's the latest on TikTok here? Because I'm seeing
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: some big private equity guys might be involved, some big
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: tech names may be involved. What's going on here with TikTok?
• 1:05
  Speaker 6: Yes, I think the White House is definitely keen to
• 1:09
  Speaker 6: get a deal done. And as you said, there are
• 1:12
  Speaker 6: multiple parties involved. Oracle is the publicly traded entity that's
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: front end center in terms of being the lead company
• 1:22
  Speaker 6: that will be owning TikTok along with these other private investors.
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: And look, at the end of the day, it's clear
• 1:29
  Speaker 6: the algorithm would be rewritten or they would be licensing it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: That is, that was a.
• 1:35
  Speaker 6: Sticking point all along. So Oracle already has the data
• 1:41
  Speaker 6: for TikTok in their data centers, so that part is
• 1:44
  Speaker 6: already sorted out, and it looks like there will be
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: a deal done. I mean, the more private investors are involved,
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: it kind of makes it hard who will determine the
• 1:55
  Speaker 6: stratity in this age of AI, given all these companies
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: are focused on and LLLM, so who would call the
• 2:03
  Speaker 6: shots in terms of what the future TikTok will look like.
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: But at least it will be owned by US entity
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: and private investors based in US.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: And Oracle is going to play a key role, a
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: big role in operating everything, including retraining a copy of
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: the algorithm that the US based TikTok would lease from
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: Byteedance an rag. I mean, we knew that that was
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: kind of in the works from the get go. But
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: what's surprising me today is some CEO announcements from Oracle
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: Saffracats is being succeeded by two cocos.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Is this news a surprise.
• 2:39
  Speaker 7: Well, it's a surprise, yes, But at the same time,
• 2:41
  Speaker 7: I think Oracles in a very strong position right now.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I would say, go back several years.
• 2:46
  Speaker 7: I think somewhere around twenty fourteen, Larry Ellison had appointed
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: Safa and Mark Hurd as the co CEOs, But I
• 2:53
  Speaker 7: think Safra has been there for a very long period
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: of time. Now they're basically saying they're going to move
• 2:58
  Speaker 7: on the leadership to much younger people. And one of
• 3:02
  Speaker 7: them actually is the leader who runs OCI or Oracle
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: cloud infrastructure, which is behind the TikTok deal, as well
• 3:09
  Speaker 7: as all the other AI deals that we're seeing right now.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Googles and facebooks of the world and the competitors to TikTok.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is no foregone conclusion that this thing's
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: going to work, is it? Because I'm still I'm a
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: TikTok user. I still got to, I guess, get a
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: new map port all my stuff and do I mean
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: we're not sure this scene going to work.
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: Is it?
• 3:30
  Speaker 8: It is?
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: And also a lot of the creators have moved to
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: these alternative platforms given this unsanatory has been there for
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: you know, almost more than a year now. So who's
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: benefiting I mean your YouTube, Instagram to an extend Snapchat.
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: But to my mind, the whole focus has shifted from
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: you know, which who has the best recommendation algorithm to
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: who can have the best AI based on the data
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: they have? So look at you know. What open ai
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: has done is used all the open Internet data. What
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: Meta is trying to do with their superintelligence is use
• 4:10
  Speaker 6: their social network data to come up with a better
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: large anglid model. That's what Gemini is doing, and I
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: think that's where the smaller players have a disadvantage. Or Snapchat,
• 4:21
  Speaker 6: even though it may gain some engagement, it just doesn't
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: have the infrastructure to train their own large anglid model
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: based on the data they have. That's what you would
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: hope to see with a company like TikTok Us that
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: they focus on training their own large anglid model based
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: on the video data that they have. But I doubt
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: when you have got so many players involved, that's never
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: good for you know, a long term strategy where you
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: focus on building a product first and then monetizing. It
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: would be more about making the company profitable and making
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: sure they have a return on investment for what they're doing.
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: I mean, this is going to be a complicated transaction
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: because the law mandates this stick to sale to US owners,
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: but it forbids byttance from any operational role, including with software. Meantime,
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: China's law X bars the export of sensitive technology like
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: the algorithms. So I guess, anach My question to you
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: is is it not only technically feasible to fully disentangle
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: TikTok from bytans, but will US lawmakers accept whatever convoluted
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: plan has come up here?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that has been very clear.
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: I mean, I imagine if you go back, you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: back in January, we're supposed to be shut down, but
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: people have been operating it.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Oracle has been hosting it.
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: So I think Oracle is going to go out and
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: say we have control over the data, we have control
• 5:37
  Speaker 7: over the algorithm.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: And I think that may let's let's hope that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: Will pacify all the regulators and the uh, you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: the Congress out there.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So many. Do we know who the CEO USA is
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: going to be, who the CFO is going to be,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: what the board?
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: Oh good question.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: I mean we don't know any of that.
• 5:54
  Speaker 6: No, no, I mean the transaction isn't even finalized. We're
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: still hearing rumors about who the private investors are going
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: to be, and that list seems to be growing, you know,
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: beyond the private equity guys. Now it's a Rupert Murdoch.
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: And you know, it was interesting to hear their names. Okay,
• 6:11
  Speaker 6: but look, I mean it will be somebody seasoned. My
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: only hunt here is they may be too focused on
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: you know, the algorithm where the bigger opportunity lies in
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: the LM. And you know how a video LLLM could
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: be gamescha AI everything.
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: Well, you know we always have to bring everything back
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: to AI.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he knows what get they clicks, he knows what's
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: going on. We trained them. Well, all right, just on
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: what's the thirty second stuff. What's the big thing you're
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: looking at this week?
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: This week it's going to be Apple and how the
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: pro is going to be doing in the market.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Stay with us.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Up after this.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarplay and Android
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I swear this whole healthcare discussion used to be more
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: than just obesity drugs.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: I know, but it feels like that's the most exciting
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: part of the healthcare world, the pharmer world.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know. I mean Sampa's Ellie Joints is here.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: He's a director of research for Global Industries. He's also
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: like the best healthcare guy over there in Europe, is
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: based in London, one of the leaders there, and we
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: talked to him all the time.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Sam.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: It looks like again Pfizer here spending four point nine
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: billion dollars for this obesity startups. Met Sarah, what can
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: you tell us about? Met Sarah?
• 7:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah, well how are you doing so?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And Scarlett?
• 7:40
  Speaker 8: Nice to have you both again taking about this topic.
• 7:45
  Speaker 8: Thank you, topic of obesity. So look, just to answer
• 7:48
  Speaker 8: your your opening point, obesity is one of the key
• 7:53
  Speaker 8: causes of a whole variety of diseases cardiovascular, cancer, mental health.
• 7:59
  Speaker 8: So we can treat it if we can prevent it,
• 8:01
  Speaker 8: if we can reduce it, it's brilliant for the entirety of society.
• 8:06
  Speaker 8: Here there is a deal where I thinks they've got
• 8:09
  Speaker 8: something that's going to be able to give them a
• 8:12
  Speaker 8: chance at playing in this very important area and very
• 8:15
  Speaker 8: massive market. Right. So the drugs are interesting, they're relatively
• 8:19
  Speaker 8: early stage. We're looking to see with some new data
• 8:23
  Speaker 8: coming up, whether some of the promise that we've seen
• 8:25
  Speaker 8: earlier for these drugs that the company has, which the
• 8:28
  Speaker 8: latest stage one is still in phase two. They need
• 8:30
  Speaker 8: to start the phase three in twenty twenty six, whether
• 8:34
  Speaker 8: they are as competitive as they looked in the earlier trials.
• 8:37
  Speaker 8: There were some questions on efficacy less so than side
• 8:41
  Speaker 8: effect profile, So we'll have to wait and see how
• 8:43
  Speaker 8: that pans out.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: Sam, can you get into the science a little bit
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: and maybe you know, keep it basic for folks like
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: Paul and me, Because Metzara is described as the next
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: generation hopeful in obesities. They use these long acting amlin
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: analogs versus GLP one, and I'm wondering for people who
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: might behold out for matsera's treatment what that means versus
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: the currently available zep bound or we goo v.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah, So the latest stage drug is very similar to
• 9:11
  Speaker 8: we go vy and similar to zepetite or zip bound,
• 9:17
  Speaker 8: and the anlin drug is a little bit early stage.
• 9:20
  Speaker 8: Earlier stage, there are companies were more advanced drugs in
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: that world, but they all kind of feed into the
• 9:28
  Speaker 8: same pathway, which is the pathway that talks between your
• 9:32
  Speaker 8: food intake and your satiety centers in your brain and
• 9:36
  Speaker 8: your insulin centers in your pancreas it tries to balance
• 9:41
  Speaker 8: of eaten enough, let's stop eating now, and let's release
• 9:45
  Speaker 8: some insulin make it more sensitive so that we can
• 9:48
  Speaker 8: deal with the onslaughter sugar that comes into our blood.
• 9:50
  Speaker 8: That's where they are is that's central to that space.
• 9:53
  Speaker 8: There's cells in the gut that release look on like
• 9:58
  Speaker 8: GLP ones, gk on like peptize the cells in other
• 10:02
  Speaker 8: parts of the body who are responding to it. So
• 10:04
  Speaker 8: that's where these things sit, and amulin is just one
• 10:06
  Speaker 8: of those agents in the middle of it.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: SA I'm just kind of stepping back on his GLP
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: one drugs in general, there's a certain level of efficacy today,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: there's a certain level of say, side effect, whether it's
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: a large or something else today. Is there a room
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: for improvement on both efficacy and side effects going forward
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: with these drugs?
• 10:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean with it's the balance that's the most importantacy.
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: I think we're pretty much there. I mean, you know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 8: there are folks that we know that go on a
• 10:32
  Speaker 8: drug for a week or two and they lose four
• 10:35
  Speaker 8: or five kilograms. That's fine. You don't want to lose
• 10:37
  Speaker 8: much faster than that, because I don't think it's particularly
• 10:40
  Speaker 8: healthy if you lose weight at a much higher speed.
• 10:44
  Speaker 8: And also you don't want to get much lighter than
• 10:47
  Speaker 8: a aty kilo or ninety kilo or seventy five kilograms,
• 10:50
  Speaker 8: depending on your size. So the key is how do
• 10:52
  Speaker 8: you get there? If you get there by having lots
• 10:55
  Speaker 8: of side effects in your probability of staying on the
• 10:57
  Speaker 8: drug is lower, but we want you to stay on
• 10:59
  Speaker 8: the drug. So it's a very very tight balance. And
• 11:02
  Speaker 8: then of course you have to figure out what am
• 11:04
  Speaker 8: I happy taking a weekly injection, which I think a
• 11:07
  Speaker 8: lot of people are not. Don't have a problem with it,
• 11:09
  Speaker 8: But what if Mitzra's writing can push it to once monthly.
• 11:12
  Speaker 8: What if some of the other competitors coming along with
• 11:15
  Speaker 8: once every three months now. Those are things that we
• 11:18
  Speaker 8: have to wait and see how the data shows in
• 11:20
  Speaker 8: terms of that balance. Have just referred to Sam.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: We mentioned earlier the headline that the White House now
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: says doctors may be exempt from H one B visa
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: fees that were just an ounce of one hundred thousand dollars.
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: Obviously that has huge ramifications for the medical industry. What
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: does it mean potentially the one hundred thousand dollars fee
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: for H one B visas for the pharma and the
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: biotech industry in the US.
• 11:42
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I think any industry that requires skilled workers. I
• 11:48
  Speaker 8: think the sector, the sector that's most exposed is one
• 11:51
  Speaker 8: that you guys probably have already talked about, is the
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: tech industry. Right in terms of pharma biotech. I think
• 11:58
  Speaker 8: the US has really good existing talent. The point is, though,
• 12:04
  Speaker 8: that sometimes a particular talent is based somewhere else. You
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: just want that particular person. So why do you have
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: to go through this process if they really are the
• 12:13
  Speaker 8: one person who knows this particular disease area so well,
• 12:17
  Speaker 8: and does really one or two people at that level
• 12:20
  Speaker 8: make a difference, Especially in a sector where US is
• 12:23
  Speaker 8: already a leader, You're not really bringing in people to
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: compete with the US talent. So that's something that I
• 12:28
  Speaker 8: think is important to remember. Doctors, of course, you know
• 12:32
  Speaker 8: the country that doesn't like Europe, many countries in Europe
• 12:35
  Speaker 8: on producing enough doctors. UK especially, you need to allow.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: That stay with us.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: Let's go down to Mark German. He's our go to
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: tech gadget guy for more on Aura because we're just
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: talking about how Aura's the company that owns Aura that
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: how Wellness Ring is now an eleven billion dollar company
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: with its latest capital raise. Mark, this is a finish
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: company and it needed to raise more money, didn't it.
• 13:21
  Speaker 9: Definitely they want to scale production, they want to scale
• 13:24
  Speaker 9: r Indeed, they want to move into new regions, they
• 13:28
  Speaker 9: want to get into new retail stores, they want to
• 13:30
  Speaker 9: add new software features. So they're looking to grow quickly.
• 13:34
  Speaker 9: This nearly eleven billion dollar valuation. This is a you know,
• 13:37
  Speaker 9: a pretty specific hardware company. They really make one thing,
• 13:41
  Speaker 9: and if you look at their market cap now after
• 13:44
  Speaker 9: that raise, you compare it to other companies that are
• 13:48
  Speaker 9: known for really one type of hardware product Peloton, Eye, Robot,
• 13:53
  Speaker 9: Sonos bos Aura is now worth more than all of
• 13:57
  Speaker 9: them combined, which is pretty crazy to think about. So
• 14:02
  Speaker 9: so far, this looks to be a success story. It's
• 14:04
  Speaker 9: not a very old company, but it's a company doing
• 14:07
  Speaker 9: effective things and they're clearly building a product that people like.
• 14:11
  Speaker 9: They've sold three million units in the last fourteen fifteen
• 14:14
  Speaker 9: months or so. They've sold five and a half million
• 14:17
  Speaker 9: rings to date. They're due to cross one billion in
• 14:21
  Speaker 9: revenue in twenty five, a billion and a half in
• 14:24
  Speaker 9: twenty six. They did five hundred million in twenty four
• 14:29
  Speaker 9: so they seem to be growing quite nicely.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know, not being into the ring fit ring
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: business myself.
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: Fitring, I like that fit ring.
• 14:37
  Speaker 8: I mean, this.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Seems like something that your friends in Cooper Tina could
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: come out with tomorrow and copycat. How do you think
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: about the competitive landscape.
• 14:45
  Speaker 9: Yeah, the competitive landscape is interesting. There's a few smaller
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: players that are also doing smart rings. Samsung rolled out
• 14:51
  Speaker 9: what they call the Galaxy Ring last year, and for Samsung,
• 14:54
  Speaker 9: who's actually been a dud, the functionality is just not
• 14:57
  Speaker 9: on par with Aura. What Aura as is a very
• 15:01
  Speaker 9: strong brand, They have very strong functionality, and they have
• 15:05
  Speaker 9: that big first mover advantage. But you're right, if Apple
• 15:09
  Speaker 9: comes out with the ring, They're gonna eat Aura's lunch.
• 15:13
  Speaker 9: You know. Aura's perspective is that they have this gigantic
• 15:17
  Speaker 9: and tried and true in legal proceedings patent portfolio, and
• 15:23
  Speaker 9: so they feel that if Apple were to come out
• 15:26
  Speaker 9: with a ring, or another company were to really hit
• 15:29
  Speaker 9: the nail on the head with a ring, that they
• 15:31
  Speaker 9: would be able to defend their patents. And they've shown
• 15:34
  Speaker 9: to be able to do that. They have some cases
• 15:37
  Speaker 9: in front of the International Trade Commission and other organizations
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: right now for some of the other competitors. So we'll
• 15:43
  Speaker 9: see what happens. I don't anticipate Apple coming out with
• 15:46
  Speaker 9: a ring anytime soon. I will say that this ten
• 15:51
  Speaker 9: billion dollar valuation is a little bit of a double
• 15:53
  Speaker 9: edged sword. On one hand, that's amazing for the company.
• 15:57
  Speaker 9: On the other hand, it puts them in territory where
• 15:59
  Speaker 9: they're probably not going to be acquired or bought in,
• 16:01
  Speaker 9: which would spur another company like Apple if they wanted
• 16:04
  Speaker 9: to ring develop one versus by them. And definitely they're
• 16:08
  Speaker 9: going to have to make a decision in the next
• 16:10
  Speaker 9: couple of years whether they're going to go public via
• 16:13
  Speaker 9: an IPO spat or if they're going to stay private.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Stay with us.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am easterne on Apple, Cocklay and Android
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: Let's go back to a story that we were talking
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: about earlier, which is the CEO change over at T Mobile.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: We just spoke earlier with the outgoing CEO and the
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: incoming CEO with our Bloomberg Television colleagues Caroline Hyde and
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: Ed Ludlow, and so now we want to bring in
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: our Bloomberg Intelligence expert, John Butler, the senior telecom analyst
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: for more on this side. John, was this a surprise?
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: This changeover all? This was incredibly well broadcast. Shriney has
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: been hitting the conference circuit, so at this time of year,
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: all the major investment banks hold these conferences, and he's
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: been in almost everyone sort of out there telling the
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: T Mobiles story. And in my mind it answers one
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: of two questions. Right with any incoming CEO, You're like,
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: can they manage the company effectively? And can they manage
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: the stock effectively? Can they get that narrative out? It's
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: been a good story and he is really good at that.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: So he's answered the second question and I think in
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: some ways he's answered the first as well.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Talk to us about the wireless business these days. It's
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: just a brutally competitive business. Just give us the lay
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: of the land there between AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: and anybody else who might be out there.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, the big three are still dominant. Paul and
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: T Mobile has executed beautifully over the past few years.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: You know, they've done a very good of sort of
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: securing the lead in terms of subscriber growth by you know,
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: marketing on this hip counterculture brand image. They continue to be,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: I think, having an outsized impact on consumers. When you
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: think a wireless it really is a consumer retail business.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: They all have thousands of stores, they advertise on the
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: Super Bowl, they have giveaways, and I think T Mobile
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: more than most really does that well. And I think
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: the Big three, because of their scale set, it sort
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: of sets this sort of wide mode for any newcomers
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: that want to come in. So Mobile as number two
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: in the industry, I think is going to remain firmly
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: in that place, if not move into the number one
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: position over the next several years. Number one Zon Number
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: one is Verizon still, so I'm a Verizon person.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I am too, But I just went to Italy and
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: how did what did you do for your phone needs?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Fine, it's just I have a plan that just ports
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: over to an international.
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: Okay, because as do uh huh.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: All of my offspring that's the only thing that I
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: still pay for.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Yes, no one, no one wants to give that up.
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: Why pay for your own clone service when dad will
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: pay for it. I switched over to T Mobile because
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: of the giveaways, yes, because of the free iPhone last cycle,
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: and also because you get free data and free international
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: texting when you're overseas up to five gigabytes, so that
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: means I never have to buy an international data pison shopping.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: That is the single biggest hook I hear. So when
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: people come to me and they're like, I'm a T
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: mobile subscriber. They have all these giveaways and they have
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: international call.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: That makes a big difference because when I was on
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: AT and T, I was paying ten dollars a day
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: and that adds.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Up really quickly, does it really?
• 19:46
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: And then only one person in the family can get
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: it because you know, not everyone's going to.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Get it right, and they have four offspring plus an
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: next wife, you're still paying for it.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Well, there you go.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Charlie Pellett is on the t MO, but he he
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: always tries to sell me.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: To Charlie also knows the great deal. Well that's the
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: secret here at Bloomberg.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Charlie's traveling the strange parts of the world where he
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: probably needs that kind of stuff. So what's the future
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: of wireless in this country? Is it just our poop
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: growth average revenue per user? And is that kind of
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: the story for that is So.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: That is a great question, that is what's driving growth
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: now for a telco you's sort of run out of
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: room for adding new subs and so you need to
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: drive that up, that average revenue per user, and they're
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: doing it with the giveaways. We were just talking about
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: They actually charge modestly for those. In some cases they're
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: selling you phone insurance. T Mobile is now pushing into
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: the advertising business, but the real avenue of growth to
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: watch for them going forward is broadband. They are making
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: more and more inroads into that market and T Mobile
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: It's what I'm watching with the new CEO here to
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: see what he does in fiber broadband, because if T
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Mobile has had any sort of a misfire over the
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: past decade, it's not going into fiber broadband in a
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: bigger way in the way that AT and TM Verizon
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: both have through sizeable and aggressive acquisitions. So it'll be
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: interesting to see what he does there. My call is
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: he's going to start building quickly and aggressively, would be
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: my guess.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Another thing I just thought of that sold me on
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: TIM Mobile was they have a really simple bill, right,
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: they don't have the quoted amount and then tax on
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: top of that, everything's included, which makes any different.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: It's user friendly, it's very They're very good at consumer branding.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: They really understand the consumer and what they want and
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: wireless and from their carrier so and Snoop Dogg and
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Snoopy spokesperson.
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, so when it comes to fierroptic, how
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: much more of that rollout is left? I mean, where
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: are they in that in that not transition, but in
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: that buildout. Is it like second inning or is it
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: eighth ining?
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: So I'm going to call second inning. Here's the really
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: interesting fact I picked up recently. If you look at
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Canada or even Europe parts of Europe, fiber broadband is
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: seventy percent of the total installed base of broadband subscribers.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: And keep in mind, fiber is far and away the
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: best medium for broadband. It has truly symmetrical speed, so
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: upload and download great for zoom calls, and it's extremely
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: high capacity, so it's sort of future proof in that sense.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: The US is only thirty percent penetrated with fibers, so
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: I think there's lots of room to run there. And
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: that's what AT and T has done so well. They
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: have really leaned hard into a fiber broadband strategy. Verizon
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: has and is continuing to lean in there, and T
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Mobile is the laggard. So again, with the new CEO
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: coming in here, I'm looking to see if we'll see
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: any change in that strategy of theirs.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: always on the Bloomberg terminal