Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 238: The Star of the Redneck Riviera

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Ep. 238: The Star of the Redneck Riviera · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast.
• 0:18
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• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Nor where you stand with on X. All right, I'll
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: tell me again what you're reading about. Oh, I got
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: doing all my deep dive research for the week. It
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: came across this Kansas City Star article about a guy
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: who was, like many Americans right now, exploring our national parks.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: You've been to several of them, and appears he was
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: picking up natural mementos from from each park. Um, no,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I got no problem. Yet. He was driving through Yellowstone
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and a park ranger flagged him down because he had
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: on strapped to the top of the vehicle, some like
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: nice branches that still had pine cones on them. You know,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: like people steal this stuff to make like wreaths and
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: center pieces and things like that. Um, but it's illegal
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: to take out of national parks. And the guy, hey
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: volunteered the information. He's like, oh, whoa, you know, I'm
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: just on my way home. I've been traveling National parks
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: for three weeks. And the ranger was like, really, well,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: could I look inside your vehicle for any other natural objects?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And the guys is like, yes, but just so you know,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: you're gonna find some stuff. And it was definitely not
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: from other national parks to clear before you left. And
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: so like she pops the hatch on this uh tahoe
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Chevy tahoe, and you know there's like the giant uh
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: pine cones from like National Park. Right. She's like, well,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: obviously these came from and then uh had you know,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: petrified wood and uh ten large pine cones, five pine
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: cones with seeds, five large pieces of petrified tree, sixty
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: three rocks, a black and blue feather, a live plant
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: with roots still attached. Uh, seven pounds of marijuana, a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: large bag of psilocybin mushrooms, five thousand dollars in cash,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: two handguns. Um, he's ready for He's ready for a
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: cross country trip. Man. And I was just laughing, thinking
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: this is a good story for everybody to keep keep
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: in mind the next time they get stuck behind some
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: vehicle that's like blocking both lanes of traffic mysteriously taking
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: pictures of like a prairie dog or something. They're like,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: what could be so interesting? We had a guy. A
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: guy wrote in with a good weed story where this
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: like he says, a big fan of the show, big
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: fan of the podcast, big fan of the show, and
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: he wanted to send a story about his mountain lion sighting.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So he's in. He's close to the Ohio Michigan line,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: and he points out that lately they're building a quarry
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and doing a lot of dynamiting and a quarry, and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: so he feels that this dynamiting and this quarry is
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: displacing wildlife. And he explains that him and his brother
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: we're up on the roof shooting pop cans out towards
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the woods, which they like doing a lot, and his
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: brother had been smoking a lot of weed, and the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: sun setting and his brother is so high that he
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: thinks that his eyes are playing tricks on him. But
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: his brother says he notices a naked man run on
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: all fours across the backyard by the tree line. They
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: both get freaked out and they want to go investigate.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So he grabs his Henry twenty two and his brother
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: grabs a wood splitting mall and they go out to
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the tree line and sure enough, here's a mountain lion.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: They get stricken with absolute fear. He fires his twenty
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: two in the direction of the mountain lion and um
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't think he hit it. And then he ran off
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: and he asked, you guys heard about any large predators
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: in the area. So there's a that's how, that's how, mother,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: there's a mountain lion citing That would be uh an
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: interesting T shirt design right where it's like, if you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: think you see this, it could be this naked man
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: on all fours mountain lion, probably a cougar. So Oliver
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and Eyes here first time on the show. Absolutely, I'm
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: glad to finally meet you. Came in from California. I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: didn't expect to be here. Tell people what your groove
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: is real quick. I got another news item I want
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to share with or a story that you'll appreciate. My
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: groove go fishing a whole bunch. I fish a ton
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a lot, and uh just try to find a new adventure, uh,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: no matter where I am. So whether that's back home
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: in California and trying doing things that are out of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: my comfort zone or floating the Yellowstone River for the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: first time and trying to throw a big plastic fish.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: So you were trying to fish. You were taking your
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: large mouth, your California large mouth bass tactics. Yep, did
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: you catch giants? I got bit and the line broke.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Sure wasn't a rock or something probably was, And I mean,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: who knows though, So so you didn't you didn't You
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: didn't take a fly pole and try it at all?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: There was a fly rod in the but apparently I
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: set up for disaster because there was like some kind
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of like backlash that was like wound over it or something.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: So Karnina was like struggling with it at first, and
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: then yeah, you're like a like a river rat now.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: So no, I didn't get a chance at you pick
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: up the fly rod, which I was excited to try
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: because I've only done it a couple of times. But
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I did also want to see what was potentially swimming
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: in that river with a really big lord that I'm
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: sure they've never seen before. A good way to do that,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: and I've just recently discovered this is you get a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: snorkel mask, just go down the damn river. Right, you
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: find out everything? Right, you find out all the secrets,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: absolutely all the secrets. Yeah, I fished with the people
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: know where there's holes that have fish, but the dude
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that goes through the snorical mask knows where in the hole,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like with with alarming specificity, right, like what is going
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: on in there? Yeah? I got that perspective fishing on
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the Sacramento River for big stripe bass this past winter
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and one of the guys spearfishes them, so he same deal.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: He knew, he knows exactly where they where they go.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: He's like, you know that one rock, well to the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: left of that one rock, and about six inches back
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: they like to hold there right, you know what is up?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: So why didn't we bring a snorkel? Oh? That's how
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Like we were talking earlier about how I figured out
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: some years ago where those big ones holding the rapids,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: That's exactly how that happened, really was snorkeling through and
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: being like, holy sh it, that's a huge fish sitting
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: right at the bottom of that rapid. If I was
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: a boat builder, I would build a maybe's so hard
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to not get scratched up. I would build a glass
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: bottom boat. That would be that would be a sketchy
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: property drift boat. And then i'd be very very careful
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: about where I wrote it, and I would know all secrets.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I don't know if i'd go
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: full see through bottom like how a little replaceable window,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna scratch it up. There's no way you're
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: gonna not you could have a recessed fish. I like
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Deely smack on there. I like to find out what
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: is going on everywhere you went, Oliver, you'll appreciate the story.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: A guy, So, just a guy writes in he lives
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: on a pond, and pond is managed for trout, but
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: some some derelict introduced large mouth bass into the pond.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Everybody the ponds all mad. So when he likes to
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: eat them, he likes to eat the big large mouth
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: because you're if you catch when you're supposed to kill it,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: because it's supposed to be trout. Um. They used to
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: have brookies and browns there and the trout in the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: bass kill them all. Then they put in rainbows and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: now they're trying to kill all the bass. Anyhow, if
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it's big, he eats it. If it's small, he fires
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: it up in the bushes for raccoons or whatnot to
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: eat it, and he says he catches one in the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: other day and goes to fling it to the bank,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: but it slips out of his hand mid stroke, hits
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the hornet's nest, falls into the water, and then the
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: hornet comes down and attacks him. Was his name Bill Dance? No,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: he doesn't say what his name, but that's like some
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: weird karma ship right there. Hit the hornet's nest with
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: a bass and then the bass got away. Anyway, Um,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I think we talked about this earlier. Got to touch
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: back on this. Some dudes found Do you hear about this?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Some dudes found at Elk School. If I was you,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I would be reporting on this in Cal's weaken review.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: This is dudes of Michigan found Elk School. Yeah, And
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: it was like I was like, oh, some guy threw
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: it in there modern time. I don't know, perfect skull,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: like a perfect six by six bull years old. And
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: they they they're saying it's an Eastern elk native Michigan
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: extinct species, southern native elk from southern Michigan. Two years ago,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Big ass Bowl. Yeah, I was debating there day. Just
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: yesterday I was debating someone who was pointing out like,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: how could wed list wolves when they're not recovered, when
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: they're only recovered across such a small bit of their range.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: And I pointed out that we've only recovered elk on
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: about fourteen percent of the range. Yeah, big horn sheep
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is like six Yeah, and no one says we shouldn't
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: be chasing after elk. Yeah, Southern Michigan, big ass bowl,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: mature bill. Yeah, No, that was that was quite quite
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the fine that that really uh solidifies that saying of like, well,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I like fishing here because you never know what you're
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: gonna get. So was it a in a riverbed? Was
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: it that kind of in a lake? I like how
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: they already got a theory what happened to it? Got
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: stuck in the got stuck in the mud? Oh man, yeah,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: on the ice, Yeah, I mean there's so many ways
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that could have gone. Yeah, so anyways, I don't know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I got stuck in the mud. They also by a car.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Guys driving his car in Tennessee gets hit with a
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: white bass. Uh. The State of Tennessee is like, well,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: we don't see a lot of these types of wildlife
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: collisions where they happen someone threw it at him. Well,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: here's the best part, right, They're like, well, our theory
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is that an eagle fought in osprey over your car
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and the osprey had to release its fish to get
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: away and then it fell and hit your car. That's valid, Like,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: of course there has to be a It can just
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: be a fish fell out of the talents, of which
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: happens all the time. But it's like there was an
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: air to air combat scenario over your vehicle. To be fair, though,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I used to see that all the time, guiding osprey
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and grab a fish out of the river and the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: eagle is just waiting because osprery is such a better
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: predator in the river, and the eagles just hanging back
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and be like, I'll wait for you to do the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: work and then I'm gonna steal it from you. So
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that does happen. Happens a lot, a lot. I've seen
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: in L A L A. A little more on this.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Sell real quick, what the hell is the lake dude
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: was moving an anchor for a swim float, got hung
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: up on the anchor. Sold in lake Your fent in
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Michigan came hooked on the anchor of a swim platform,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: drawing up the anchor and here it is. Yeah, Dad
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: is now in the same little piece I'm reading they
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: did donate it to uh some kind of local museum.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: How to hung up my house hard time. I would
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: have a very difficult time because I have a very
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: difficult time doing the I think, now, buddy mine he
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I want to let me touch on this real quick.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: In the same piece. So they also recently in a riverbed.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: They're uncovered too vertebra from a baileeen whale. What and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the only thing they can think is that they were
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: they were brought in that like the Hopewell culture one
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of the you know, they were brought in as a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: thing that was cool when I was I think I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: mentioned this before, but um, when I was doing research
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: on the historic range of Buffalo in the US, you
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: want to talk about something this barely dudes ran into
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Buffalo and Washington, d C. New Orleans had him New Orleans,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the Texas coast. Ah. Now that's something I can see
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: getting stuck in the mud. You know, people had counted
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: a thousand of them in what is now an Asheville.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I can see that they don't have yesday protection that's
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: now these bailing Anyways, when I was working on looking
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: at trying to map out that range, people used to
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: include New York as historic range New York State, and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: it comes that inclusion I think, you know, it dates
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: back to the discovery of two skulls in New York.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Both had cultural markings on them. People now think that
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: someone has brought someone thought they were cool. Yeah, So
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: these bailing whale verdebro were like some kind of you know,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the best explanation being some kind of trade item. I mean,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: so many artifacts from animals and critters wound up doing that, right,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Like I think I think a good example that when
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I was digging in on freshwater drum and they were
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: finding those the odor lith bones, like all the way
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: on the other side of the country where they're not
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: even close to have they've they've never lived, there's no
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: evidence they've ever lived over there. But in archaeological dig
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: sites they often find those odorleth bones from freshwater drum
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: mixed in maloney shells in the interior. Assuming that it
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: was some form of currency or a talisman or something.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: What was it getting at about these vertebra was this
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: some other thing I was gonna talk about? I mean,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: from what I read, I think I think that's it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: You know, it could have been just a cool trade item,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: could have been used as like some sort of a
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: vessel um. But I don't think that's the only whale. Uh.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that's the only like whale evidence
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that there is in that part of the country too.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: That's the other interesting part for people dragon stuff home. Yes,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: But and then there was something about whales making it
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: up rivers to a certain degree to not there, man, no,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: not there, no, no, no, not there. But like if
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you look in and getting strand and die in way
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: up rivers. Yeah, like Maine has a couple of circumstance,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: says like Orca is going way up river. California has
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: some whales that have gone way up river into into
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: desalinated water. What I was gonna mention about keeping hoarding
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: stuff for yourself, for giving its museums a body mine.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I thought he was on public land, okay, and lo
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and behold, he looks in the river bed and here's
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the mammoth Moehler. Then he looks in about thirty inches away,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: here's another mammoth Mueller, both facing up, and he's like,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: what are the chances of that? And then he's like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's like the whole you know, it's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the whole damn skull. But what's sticking out of the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: two molars? He said it was about like he just
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I can't remember how he described something like the tip
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: of his one cam on his bow to the other
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: cam on his bow apart. Then he gets to really
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: scrutinize and on X and realize in fact, he's not
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: on public land. So he's in a little bit of
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a conundrum, and eventually goes in. The landowner was saying,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of accidentally on your property.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: It couldn't help, but notice it wound up in the
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: museum like that guy was cool about it, like donated
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it out of hoard of that. This friend of yours
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that you speak of, though, is like the mother Teresa
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: of people who find cool ship and leave it where
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, Like he has. He's one of
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the he's not that old, you know what I'm talking about,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But he's got like a photo album of like, oh
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: do you like dinosaur teeth? Just like he's a magnet.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: He's a magnet for crazy ship. Dude finds more crazy ship.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. He's like some people got an eye
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: for it, you know. Yeah, he's got like a fine
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: tuned crazy ship detector in his brain. Oh man, it
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: it just you spend a couple of minutes looking at
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: that book and like, I'm just gonna live in a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: trailer here in eastern Montana and wander the earth. Quick
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: couple updates on the ass movement. This is the anti
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: surface shitting movement. Some people wrote it in as we're
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: talking about it. This is a guy who, like crusades,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: He's made it his life mission to crusade against um,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: taking a growler out on the surface of the earth
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and then doing nothing to masquerade and nothing to tuck.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I'll say that in areas where there's no
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: fire damage, I feel the epitome of courtesy is to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: dig a cat hole, defecate in the cat hole, then
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: burn the tp. But you gotta be careful about fire danger.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: The only thing that I've been meaning to say on
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: this is there are certain places on Earth, basically in
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: most of your western state. It's where the microbial layer,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the ability for things to be broken down in an
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: efficient manner, can be very very close to the surface
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of the Earth just asked that elk school. Yes, Yes,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: digging a cat hole sometimes beyond four inches, um, is
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: gonna preserve. You're gonna You're gonna end up being the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: author of a preserved specimen that somebody can go look
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: at a hundred thousand years from now. But yeah, so
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that's just something that like, that doesn't mean he can't
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: flip a rock and burning the teath. In certain environments.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Even flipping a rock, you're probably gonna make out like
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: a copper light. Yes, booper light is the word. I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: am more concerned with the aesthetics. Absolutely. I don't think
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: there's anything inherently ikey about a buried human feece. But
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I think that there's something icky about a surface human fece.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: This is coming from a man who has had collections
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of animal feces. But I don't like the human ones.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I don't like one. Some dogs, I don't like one.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Some people running this dog around right now where you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: know you got a curious puppy. Phil has had this experience, Um,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: like you some of the trailheads, river access sites around here,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: it's like you gotta sprint that puppy through, you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the ship zone where people feel comfortable, like sneaking into
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the woods and like get down to the river really
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: fast because that public's gonna find it needed and lick
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: your face exactly their crems face. Uh. Anyways, a dude route.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: In a couple of pieces of feedback about anti surface
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: pooping anti surface shipping is a guy wrote, instead of
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: calling a cat hole, it's like you should call it
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: an asshole anti surface ship in hole. That's pretty good
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that it's a good joke. Now, another guy said, I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: had mentioned who like for every anti there's a pro
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Oh come on, Well, I'm just I was just saying, like,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: is there actually a pro surface shitting movement there? There
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: is like an organized movement And George, no, not they're
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: not organized, but he says George and Alabama he knows,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. He says, he gets he tries to get
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: distance from these people, but he knows them. He knows
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of them Turkey hunters and Georgian Alabama, who use taking
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a growler in strategic locations as a way to discourage competition.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Oh so they might go to like a little park
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and trailhead area and duke it up real good, thinking
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that it just sends people elsewhere Oh, that's terrible. It's
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: primal terrible. I was thinking in territory, it's terrible. So
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you remember, um, we got some beta on a black
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: tail spot and there were no real black tails there
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: when we're hunt in Alaska the last time, and they're like, yeah,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure. And then like in the spot
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: where we were kind of anchoring the boat and canoeing in,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: there's um there was some like very much like yes,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: somebody has been successful here. It was like bailing twine
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: and a pearl vest or something like yes, this means yeah.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Nowadays it's kind of a shame. But nowadays it's those
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: damn latex gloves. Man, Yeah, people got something. They put
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: those gloves on because they're like it's icky, and then
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: they leave the gloves land. I like the latex glove
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: thing as as far as a tool, because I'm terrible
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: at washing my hands. Way better these days with COVID, sure,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: But then I go the opposite way and I'm washing
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: my latex gloves for like, um for a long time.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, I keep them around, and then I have
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: cooking latex gloves too, for like mixing burger and doing
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. In the kitchen, and I always wonder
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: if those two gloves ever met. The last bit of
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: follow up on the assid movement guy from Utah. He
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: works in the therapeutic wilderness industry and he they call
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: him surfys. Surfeys um in his industry is a lot
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: of surfys because you wind up with kids that are
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: too lazy, scared, uncomfortable to use the group latrine. They
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: get spooked off the group latrine. And I can tell
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you that my five year old doesn't like the outhouse
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: at our fish shack. And when he he doesn't, he'd
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: rather go out and dig a cat hole if you
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: force him to use the like the our thing. It's
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: like a classic outhouse with no doors, so you're just
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: looking out into the rainforest, which is nice. And then
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: we got a barrel that we cut in half, set
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the barrel down on the hole, so you got the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: plywood with a hole cut right. Then you got a
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: half a barrel cut, plastic barrel, half the barrel cut
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and laid on there a hole cut in the barrel,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and on that is screwed a toilet seat. Nice one um.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: He'll make you sit there with a stick and wrap
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that barrel till the ever last and last fly comes
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: out of there, like he does. He is deathly afraid
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of sitting on that thing with flies in there. So
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you'll come up and just beat that barrel to get
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: all the flies out, and then he'll sit. So I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: know what he's talking about. Like some kids don't want to.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: They don't like group of the trenes. So he'll say,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: they'll go out, they'll sneak off and go lay a surfy.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Then you gotta go out and find them all and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: round him up. He says. At night they call. When
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: someone does that night, they're called a night panther, he says.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: He says, one it's real cold, and you just get
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: up out of your bag or whatever, sleeping bag, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: you go out and you do lay a night panther.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: He'll actually put a stick into it like a little flag,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: no a handle, because it freezes overnight. If you put
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: a stick into it, not only does it market, not
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: only does the market's location freezes at night. You go
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: over and just grab the stick and then you can
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: haul it over and get yourself a good place to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: put it. That's pretty smart, he signs off. I say,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and don't let the don't let the night panthers bite now,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: not for that? What uh? What now about latex gloves,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean to be down on him. I wear them.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I had some on the other day because we're butchering cariboan.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: The gnats are so unjust like you can't even like
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: backs your hands. You can't even like you could be like, oh,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, there's no thing you could say to describe
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the gnats. There's no like clouds, like, there's no just
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: it's just horrible. And I put latex clothes on because
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: they like your knuckles so bad. So just for terminology's sake,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: are we talking about the little bite and flies like
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: the white sox? No talking about the no seums. No,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: these are no seums, but you can see them. These
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: are no seums the size of skeeters. I don't know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: There's you know, there's so many like regional names for
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: black flies, white sox nat definitely like a slashing lap
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: dip hair. Okay, in this when you can see it,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: when you can skylight them, you see him all around
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: your damn head. They skylight they they look like a
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: mosquito that big, but they bite like a no see
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: um but they're a slashing lap fly family. I don't
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: know caribou all around their eyes. I don't even know
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: how they can see. All right, I got you. That
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: sounds miserable. And then you're in the tustics. You know
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: what tustic. So the tustics here got a relief of
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: like from the moss to the top of the tustic.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: And you shoot a cariban, they just they land down
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in the so they're like, you're actually working on them subsurface.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: There's no way to get him out of there where
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you're if you're standing on a tussic, you're like bending
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: over down to try to get and it's just wet
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and hot. It turns like otherwise a pleasurable experience, it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: just the worst. Like it's always such spongey ground. When
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: you like you can't get any good purchase. He's like, yeah,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I got interesting caribou related fact for you, right, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: mean it'd be um it's from that Farley Moap book
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that old old Dirt gave me. Oh you mean his
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: like classic never cry Wolf People, the Dear People. Yeah,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: So like I wrote like twenty four books I've read
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a hand it's so funny. They just like fall in
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: your lap every ten years or so. That's why it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: been for me anyway. Um. But he's talking about how
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the Eskimo group that he's living with up in the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: barren lands, the food that they consume is awful. Some
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: gut and the front shoulders. I know, but I just
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. Yeah, I was just saying that that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: way so people would track what you're saying. Yeah, uh,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: you know, uh probably won't surprise you. But I do
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: get beat up over the way I talk and pronounce
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: some certain things. But yeah, you cover you, um, try
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to get the definition thing. But you headed off at
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the pass by saying like I probably yeah, mess it up. Uh.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So they take the shoulders for their own personal consumption,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like and then the hind quarters, like the big hams
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: are what the dogs get to eat. M hm and um.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: And it goes as far as to say that like
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the hams aren't going to sustain a person in the barrens.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: But then uh, not enough connective tissue and collagen or whatever.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: They don't like it because it's not chewy. Yeah yeah uh,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and I mean neck meats, older meat, slow slow cook
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: stuff is awesome, but you know, obviously, um flat iron
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: steaks are fantastic too. We had a guy um Yanni
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: and I had a chupick Eskimo. I think I talked.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I talked about this for tell Us that his favorite part,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you know, the giant tendon, the hooks to the like
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the the thoracic process. What is it called. Yeah, like
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: on a vertebra, the big ass thing that shoots upwards,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: but it's not a fin Is it a process or
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: is it a I knew this at one point in time.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: There's a name for that. I don't. It's verteb Brothers
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: like that. It's big, you know, they're like eleven twelve
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: inches long on a bis and moose have huge ones. Anyways,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the tendon that holds the head up so when you're
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: skinning something you find that big yellow He's like, that's good,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that's nice and chewy. It's like, I'll say, I bet
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: it is. I can't. I've ever got down on that one,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: not talking about things being tender. That's good. Chewy is good? Yeah,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: all right, good. I want to I want to follow
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: up because on this this this we all almost went
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: down the latex gloves thing, and I genuinely have this
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: question because Kyle was talking about using them in the kitchen,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and I have used them for butchering animals. I've used
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: them in that context. I get why they fit there.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But you're talking about mixing burger and mixing sausage. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I've always just washed my hands really well before I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: did before and after doing the thing. Is the extent
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: of it burgers and sausage for me. Um, I mean
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: washing your hands well as Gonn is going to do it,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: as long as folks cook their food pretty much for
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: any circumstance. But my hands are always beat up fairly dirty.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And then when I'm really in there mixing sausage, especially
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: if you're using like iron ingredients. Um, like I toasted
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: up a bunch of coriander for that sausage I gave you,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and then and turn that into a powder before I
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: mixed it in there, And you got to like mix
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: like hell in order to distribute that stuff, especially because
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I had fat into the sausage too, So it's real tacky.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: And I can just feel like if I didn't wear gloves,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I could just feel the hairs on my hands getting
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: sucked off into that sausage and like whatever, skips and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: should I have protect the sausage yourself. Correct, As we've
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: talked about many, many times. That's the number one thing
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I give away is sausage, like even though it is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: very expensive, a giant pain in the ask to make,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: but you know people are going to use it though
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: it Yeah, and you don't want your little hairs and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: fingernails in there. Um, I'll tell you hot tip. Those
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: same chupic dudes. They because you know it's like twenty
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: below thirty below hunting muscos out there in March. They
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: bring um wool liners an oversized latex gloves to butcher. Yeah.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: That ship man is nice alright, so good on gloves. Yeah,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I don't like, I'm not I don't like. There's something
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: unappetizing to me. You know, nowadays every food service person,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: even when you're watching like barbecue shows, Like if you're
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in a place like in the gym and they got
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the TV and there's no volume so you never know
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: what's going on. You can contract the TV show, um,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: and they're doing making barbecue. Even they wear those giant
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: plastic food service ones, not the ones that fit right,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: but the giant clown hand ones. It's just not appetizing
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: to me, I'd better have your damn hand in there. Well. Plus, like,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the the environment that's going on between your skin and
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the glove is never an appetizing thing. You always like, yeah,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's just looks so medical. Yeah yeah,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I mean when you describe it as an environment that
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: really like that, that calls up that wet super images
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and the whole Here's the other thing, too, is the
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: whole glove thing. Everywhere in all the food service people
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: wearing gloves now makes it that when I have someone
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: over for dinner and I go to like dress the salad,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I like to give it a good hand toss, right.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: So now they're sitting there, you know, and maybe it's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: someone like a work person, I don't know that. Well,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I'm hosting an out of town guest and they're sitting
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: there and I want to do my salad and I'm like, listen,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tongue this subit just because you're here.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hand blend it. Are they like you know
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: what I mean? I feel like that's are they so
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: used to the whole glove deal that then they're like,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: why are his hands in there? Like that, who cares.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that you care. Well, did occur to me?
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be talking about it. Fair's just like I
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: feel like the special, the Salad Special, because it's got
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: some of Steve's skin flakes. My hairs and skin flakes.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I want them. All Right, we gotta move on. What
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: we spoke of you, Tomboat Doss Boats season two. Yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about it. We did it, Miles, Do
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: do for me. Do for me a recap of dost
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Boat season one, season one, like, tell what it was?
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: What is it? What is it? All right? Uh? For
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: those of you who don't know, we wanted to make
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: a fishing show that didn't feel like every other fishing show,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and we we all have this love for old boats,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: particularly old aluminum boats. Like most of the folks I know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I certainly did. I think most people in this room
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: got their starts fishing and old, relatively crappy aluminum boats.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: But that represented, once upon time was called a boat exactly.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: It was just a boat. But that little boat rabat image.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'm calling them, David, because I don't know, I can
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: imagine what it looks like. But we didn't care if
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: they were nice like that. That boat was your passage
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: off the shore. And as a young kid angler like
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: that was a huge jump forward. So we decided to
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: make a fishing show that featured an old, relatively crappy
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: illuminum boat. And we went and legitimately this was there
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: was no artifice to this. We bought one of the
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: worst illuminum boats we'd find a site unseen off of Craigslist,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: from a very interesting dude named Tony in central Texas,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and uh, and then we took that boat and we
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: sent it around the southeast with different anglers to different fisheries,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and we gave them each a day to try and
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: do some kind of modification on that boat to make
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: it better for the fishing they wanted to do. And
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: then they had to try and figure it out, fixed
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: it up like the Dickens. Yeah, I mean some better
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: than others. That they weren't all entirely successful, because I
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: mean we were. You had you had a day. But
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: it went from I went from having like kind of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: like a barely running motor oh that was effectively inoperable,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: it's night and day. That boat is sweet now, I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: mean from all the things we did from from reinforcing
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the trans and putting on a new motor. Building out
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the casting deck, which which Cal did a fantastic job on.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: We put a polling platform on there. We uh, we
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: got some electronics on there. Oliver put a very nice
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: trolling motor on that thing. Uh Honda for stroke. Yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I got a Honda four stroke on there that ran beautifully.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And then that was a successful repower when I can
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: look down at the hole and watch it waving like
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: a water bed. Okay, we're bogging. And by the end
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: we actually had that thing tricked out with the center
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: console and like it's it's a sweet boat now. And
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: then we auctioned it off to raise money for Cal's
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: special project. Well I didn't. I helped select the special project,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: but it is well you are, you are. You brought
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: it to attention a special land access project Shiloh Pond
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: in Maine that Cal identified as needing a boost to
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: get across the finish line, basically purchasing a UM purchasing
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: a piece of land that has historically been open to access,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: but it was never UM, never made official long term.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: It was a private chunk that provided access to whoever
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to go out there, and there was a group
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: that wanted to purchase it outright, make it forever public
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing location. So we sold the damn boat. Yes,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: and what was the final I think it's fourteen grand
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I felt like that's like a break even amount for
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the boat got steel. Yeah, I know. No, No them
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: against the guy that bought it. He's a real nice guy.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Should have raffled it. Yeah. But the problem with the raffle,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: like we looked at that, the legal issues of trying
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: to hold a raffle across all the different states. We're daunting.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: But I now have reason to believe. I now have
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: fact based info. It suggests that suggests for something like
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that you will do four x oh. I believe it
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: on a raffle. I believe it and worried me and
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Cal are involved one right now, Cal, do you know
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: where that's sitting right now? I don't think we should
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: just show you with my space, show you with my fingers. Yes,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that's where that sits right now. Manat raffle. No, Man,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I wish we could have and I would have liked
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the fact that they would have given everybody an equal
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: chance and not just the highest bidder. Got it, not
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: no nothing against who got it, and I'm very happy.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I'll give m a BackRub. But I like the egalitarian
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: nature of the Raffi raffle. Yeah. So here's so season
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: two that that was all based. How do you define
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: where season one was based? That we're calling at the southeast,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: but that's not entirely right. It was it was Texas,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Florida and Georgia South Fish Southeast Dish. Yeah, and and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: and picking our spots based on you know, interesting people,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: interesting fisheries, and interesting stories. We really wanted to focus
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: on not just you know, the same old spots everybody's been.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: We had some of those, and some of the species
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: that you're expecting, but we also wanted to like get
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: something that has more some more layers of interest to
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: it other than like, hey, we went and caught a fish,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: because you can find that on any fishing show. Season
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: two takes place in upper Midwest Great Lakes. Yes it does.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Could say, yeah, the boat. So the boats are very
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: It's personal to me because I I kind of explained
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the story in the show, but I'll talk about this
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: boat a little bit. My my old man was born
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: in uh, the south side of Chicago, Little Italy, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: he got older and got into hunting and fishing and
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: stuff by mostly by going off to fighting the war,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and then always dreamed of going up and like getting
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the place in the wilderness, which happened to be like,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: you know, four hours north. It's all relative, and at
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the time it was, you know, it was a kind
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: of a wildly sort of place. And so before I
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: was born, my mom and my old man go up
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to um look at this house that I was born,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and my mom's the lizard today. And the way my
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: old man tells it, he he goes a look at
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the house, but there's no one there. So he looks
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: around at the house and there's happens. No one's living
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: in the house. There's a summer cottage, and there's a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: boat out front, and he takes the boat out in
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the lake, and as he tells it, as he tells it,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: he caught a five pound large mouth, which a monster
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: for that. Well, here's that's the thing. We used always
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: tell the story. But now I'm like, how could it
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: be that the only five pound bass ever? After thousands
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: of days, thousands of days of fishing that like spring, summer, fall, winter,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: everybody we knew. Okay, my mom has been in that
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: house the forty six years I've been alive. How come
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: that was the biggest bass that ever got caught? Like,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: why would it be that that that? You know what
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: happened to him? So? I don't know. I think it
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: was a nice bass. I think he caught like a
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: twenty bass, and it seemed like a five pounder could
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: go five poundstically, if he said four, I would be
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: like wow. But anyways, anyways, I don't know, we caught
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: a big like oliver what um? You know this little
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: length charts, which I know we're off right because we
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: do them on hot We like do the length weight
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: thing on a halibit and then we actually just weigh
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the halibit totally. And I've done with other fish too.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: But what's a five pound bas supposed to be? How many?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: It really depends on their building. I think the large
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: mouth bass are probably the worst fish to try to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: plug in any of those formulas because there's so many
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: varia because their fitness varries absolutely like what they're eating
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: varies in density of weight, Like a fish from Clearly
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: At California is probably like twice as heavy from the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: mercury content in the water alone. But like they really
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: like youn't pick up a fish and be like, oh man,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that's a nice three pounder and put on a scale
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: and it's almost five You're like, what the like? That
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't compute. So when they I see all these tapes
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: and measuring devices with the formula like, oh twenty or
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: is a five pounder? Maybe? Maybe? And chasing big bass
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: across the country, now, really well built large mouth in
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: California is going to go yeah, because it's all girth
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: like they got the fat deposits on the top of
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: the tales are thick, like they're literally maxed out. And
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: then I go to Texas and hammer these giant fish
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: with these monster heads, but their bodies are like wind socks.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: So I've got like a twenty seven like huge bass,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: like looking at its side profile wise, and you're hanging
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: on the scale and it's like seven half pounds. What
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: the I feel robbed because weighing all these damn bass,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I have to That's that's the unfortunate thing. You know what,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think he caught a five po mass. Well,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: we're working on our Walleye spot trying to figure that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: stuff out. That big one that I caught in the spring, Yeah,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I taped that very accurately, waited it with, you know,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: with my scale that I weigh everything with. So that's
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: kind of my baseline. I'm sure you could poke holes
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and whether or not that's accurate. And then I caught
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: one that was three and a half inches shorter here
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a week ago, and there's only um, uh, just shy
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: of a pound difference between seven and a half inch
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: fish and a fish, and I thought, well, that kind
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: of seems not quite right. How's do how fat he is?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: How built out? So the old man catches his bass,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and then in the tell, you know, every story becomes
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: like an epiphany story. Over time, he has an epiphany
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: and buys the house that I was born in. Down
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the beach is another World War two veteran, kind of
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: named John Gary. And I say kind of only because
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: he got stationed in Canada during World War Two and
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: all he did was shoot deer. It sounds like it's
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: like he spent World War two shooting deer um in Canada.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: And uh, he had this boat that was built. He
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: had a StarCraft bass Master Olive Green built in nineteen
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: seventy three, so the year before I was born, and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: John Gary was like all the kids around the lake
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: the fish. It was like John Garry's like the fishing mentor.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: He had a net to catch beach minnows, sand mintos,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: had a beach sand he hung up. You could go
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: down there and get mentals with John. He'd like rig
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: your rod up, he'd untangle your ship. He um. He
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: kept list of all the books he read. He read
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of like John grisha By type stuff. He
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: keep a list of. He got two lists, a list
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: of all the books he read, and then all the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: days he fished. And he would log on a minimum
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy usually over two hundred days a year.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: A lot of people like to say they do that,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: but not mean people actually do that. He'd fish two
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: hundred days year. It's a lot of time on water.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: He would fish so reliably that when I was trapping
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: snapping turtles, I could go by his house at eleven
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: and get fish heads. It was like he just knew
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: that he fished, and he knew that he had fish heads,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and he would he just he He lived his wife
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: and then she passed away and he would fish more
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: than he could eat. Like he'd cook large moles like
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: he he'd play large moles and cook them scales down
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: on a grill. He'd soak them and milk and cook
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: them scales down on the grill. Yeah, they'd go out
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and fish perch and bluegill. Him and these old guys,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: and he hung out a lot of old drinker. He
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: was a big drinker two um. And they'd sell the
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: flames because there was a fish market in our county
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and they would illegally sell. And he fished that the
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: fish market owner could plausibly legally have. And since there
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: was like perch fisheries in Canada and aquaculture facilities that
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: they blew gill, he could be like he could have
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: cover for that. So they would a lot of times
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: sell their fish to the fish guy. And man, they
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: just fish their asses off u. And he always had
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: his boat and he had on a haul out and
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: we used to actually go. He had a you know
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: those cranker things you lift your boat out of water.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: And he had his own boat ramp, the only private
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: boat ramp on the lake. He had the first mink
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I ever caught. I caught. It was muskrats had built
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: a den under the boat ramp, and I caught my
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: first mink out of that. And anyhow, just a very
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: like influential figure growing up, and that's whose boat it was.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: He died and he got sick. He's almost dead. Anyhow,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: we bought his boat and it went to live in
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: my mom's pole barn and sat my mom's pole barn
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: for I don't know, fourteen years. She started to get
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: a little nervous because she had been registering it the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: whole time because she didn't think she thought it was
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: bad to have an unregistered boat in your barn, and
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: she eventually wind that boat out of there, and it
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: was right at the time. I was like, daha, we'll
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: use it for season two. So that's the boat. How
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: old were you when you started fishing out of that? Oh?
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I was always around. Like we used to
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: catch more than we fished in it. We would catch
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: bullheads out of the bricks, out of the bricks that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: the boat haul out sat out. But like it was
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: just all the boat was always there, Like you know,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: you'd go out with John in the boat and you
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: show you how to catch crop ees. Just around. It
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: was always around right, And that's the boat. That's such
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: a great story. It's a huge upgrade. Can I say
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: one last tid bit about John Gary. He would cut
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: up oranges and freeze him the wedges, so then when
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: he came home from fishing and poured a glass of vodka,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: he would then fill it full of frozen orange wedges.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Those guys a lot man. He called his uh his
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: He had his fish shack and stuff on the beach
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: and he called it the Redneck Riviera because they sit
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: out there and finished getting drunk, finished getting drunk after fishing.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful. That boat was. I mean, you guys will
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: all see it when you watch the show. But that
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: boat was was a whole lot of fun to work
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: on in the fish out and just see it. And
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: here's what I think compared to the one before, it's smaller,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: which there was a little tighter quarters. It's a real
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: small boat. Like it's narrow and short. It's it's real
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: tight quarters. But I feel like fourteen ft, yeah, fourteen
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: feet and and also like again extra Narra, I didn't
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: measure the like gunald Gunda, but there's not much there.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: And but I feel like that forced people to be
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a little bit more efficient in how they set it
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: up when they fished out of it. Like the other one,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: there's enough space that you can just kind of blow
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: up and there was just ship everyone. This year it
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: seemed like everything, wait a minute, we don't have any space.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So they had to be more thoughtful and they had
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: to plan it out better. It just seemed to work out.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Like the interactions with the boat were good, absolutely great
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: season one, but I feel like they were in better
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: season two. Like everybody who left those man, I love
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: this boat. I'd want to fish out of this boat.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I think a great takeaway from being on both seasons
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: and seeing the differences in those two platforms is I
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: had the perspective of a lesser craft that made me
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: appreciate just a little bit of an upgrade as far
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: as that new platform represented. It's like, oh I can
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: it was hard enough last season. This my job just
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: became a little bit easier. And I think that's the
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: opportunity with this whole like Doss boat like theme and concept,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: is to show that there's learning opportunities from fishing in
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: a piece of ship, because when you get into something
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: that's not then you don't have any excuses anymore, I
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: may I may do with crap. Like my boat was
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: a two two purchased off Craigslist up in Big Bear,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: covered in pine needles. I don't know how I got
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: that trailer home down to the l A area, but
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: like that feeling of getting off the bank was a
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: real thing. Now that whole new world has opened up
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: to me, and I learned how to fish out of
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: a piece of crap with just a trolling motor getting
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: blown all over these lakes when the wind picks up,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: this down a third. So when I'm in a bass boat,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: even if it's like a small eighteen nineteen foot or
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: old like two Ranger or something, I know what it's
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: like to fish out of a legit piece of crap,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't phaze me anymore. And it's just like
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: you're complaining about the wind, Like, dude, this thing is
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: like an aircraft carrier. So I think people that jumped
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: straight into nice platforms and vessels and boats, like straight
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: out of high school or whatever, like good on them.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: But I feel like they're getting cheated because they don't
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: know what it's like stuff with it. Yeah, right, it's
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: hard to appreciate what you end up having or even
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: no like learn how to. I feel like the learn
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: all the learning I did about how to get one
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: of those old boats to be an effective fishing tool
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: is super useful now, even in a nicer boat, because
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I can think about, like, all right, how do I
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: how can I set this up to be more efficient?
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: How what changes can I make? What can I easily
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: do even though it's already great compared to what I'm
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: used to You've had to figure all that out in
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: the past. I think I think most people who fish
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: seriously have come through that, and it's like, yeah, all right,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I know how to kick out this boat. I know
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: that the things I need to do, and that's part
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: of the satisfaction in the fun, especially to bring it
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: out for many, many different fisheries. Yeah, I'm just your
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: main home stretch. I'm gonna be buying some raffle tickets
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: for dose boat. Yeah there's something about that thing, because
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: if you can I don't know if that might be
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: too sad, it might be too like heartbreaking for me
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: to see it go for a grown adult, like running
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: the tailor back there, if you throw your weight around
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: like you can, turn can help turn the boat. Yeah,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: well that boat flies, and so there's something about that
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: where I was like, God, maybe this is the design
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: to put a jet on this thing, and it could
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: be can maybe like a fort peck gets some big
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: water on it and then also run up the river
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to maybe I don't know, that boat goes thirty his
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: life gone. It feels like you're going so fast, it's
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: so fun. So Joe, Sir Mellie's here, He's here, but
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: not here, it's virtually here. Yeah. I was gonna say
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: man as a as a doss boat rookie because I
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: was not around for season one. Um having watched the
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: first one, I was very nervous going into our mission
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: with the new boat. But I gotta say me and
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Tim land where who we fished in and fished within
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: my episode, both walked away from that going this boat
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: is freaking awesome, Like I personally would like to have
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: that boat. And I saw one here about a month ago.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I've never seen that boat in my life. That that
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: the exact same boat, StarCraft bass Master. And there's a
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: river in North Jersey kind of in like a shady
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: part of the area here if we pike fishing and
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: there's these old shacks and these weird houses back there.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like the hills have eyes, and people
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: just pile old pontoon boats and jet skis back there,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: and we're coming around the corner. Sure enough, man, same
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: exact boat, only with a center console at the wheel
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: wheel in the center. Ye tell people about the fisher
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: you went and checked out for season two, and I'll
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: tell you this. I want you to know now, I
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: fished for smallmouth in that river, including right below the
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: secret dam. Okay, so when I go turn it up there,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: don't act like that I stole it from some stupid show.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: This is a classic fishing conversations. Let me establish microdentials here.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I know where you're at. I've been up there forever. Yeah. Now,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: so we we fished the man Nominee River in northern Wisconsin,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: on the border with the with Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and um,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like we got off really lucky because on
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: fabrication day it's like, well, we have to float this
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: thing down a very shallow, rocky river. So fabricating meant
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: just get everything the hell off of it, just strip
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: it down to absolute bare bones. And um, miles, you
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: were talking about how it gets narrow in the front,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: like it's got a weird beam and that weird sort
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: of choke point in the front of this boat. We
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: didn't even have to bolt the yetti down, man, just
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: just shove that thing right in there. It locked into place,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: and that was our aur rower seat. Um. But we
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: we went in. We went into it thinking like, there's
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: no way this is gonna work. And within a couple
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: of miles it was. It was cumbersome to row that thing.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: It didn't respond at all. You couldn't like, you know,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: crab crawl it and crab walk it. But um like,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: no trouble And for just two guys it was awesome
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: to fish out of. We had like all the room
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: in the world. It was. It was. It was killer
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you guys, cause the biggins we did and it was
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: it was slow by the standards of the dudes we
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: were fishing with. Um. But I mean they were some
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of the biggest small mouth I've ever caught on the fly.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: And it's in the super shallow clear water. And uh,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: they call them passive feeders, So you think of these
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: small mouth as being aggressive all the time, and they
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: throw basically big dry flies foam chernobyl ant type things
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: they call wigglers, and they're like, now you just keep
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: putting it out there and it'll get over top of one.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: And it's just such an easy meal dragon fly whatever
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: he thinks it is that these these big fish on
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: the bottom will just say, oh, I can't pass that up,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: and they just come up and just nip it. So
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: you're watching these twenty in plus inch fish coming up
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: and just sipping these tiny flies. It was. It was
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: some of the most badass small mouth fishing I've ever done.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Why what makes it a what's that term? Passive feeder?
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, how passive are you went up and eat
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: something off the surface? Well, in other words, like they're
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of not in kill mode. They're not chasing
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: bait around, they're not particularly in an ambush spot, um,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: you know, and they're just kind of laying there lazy.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: But there's so many dragonflies and damsels and stuff out
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: there that it's like you're laying in bed and someone
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: comes by the appetizer tray. Yeah, like you it's exactly what,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: just try some meat on it. Yeah, same deal. And
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: it's been cool because I learned a lot and I've
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: since done that with fish here and caught fish that
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: way out here. So so Joe, real quick, were you
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: imparting any motion to those to those flies or were
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: you just straight drifting them? No? You you move them,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but but barely. And uh, you know, it kind of
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: translates over to poppers too, because a lot of guys
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: throw foam and wood poppers, like the biggest thing. When
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: you slap down one of these foam wigglers are a popper,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: those guys are like the slap is pop number one.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: So people like to lay that stuff out and just pop,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: pop pop and can move right away. It's like, no,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: the slap is pop one. So with these wiggly bugs,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: you'd slap it down and let it go, and they
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: would just say just move it barely. So they have
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: these long rubber legs coming off the sides, and you
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: would just twitch the line, I mean, move the rod
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: tip an inch two inches just to make it move
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: forward and just let those legs flex. And that's all
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: you would do to your drift ran out and pick
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: it up and put it down again. Down all these
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: soft banks. Now, when you guys are out there fishing, um,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: you mentioned how you kind of credit them with these
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: are dudes at all, went out you know, grew up
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: in the Midwest, went out west to be trout guides
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: and ship and they learned about drift boats and throwing
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: flies and whatnot. And then they came back to their
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: homeland and took that technology to start catching big gas
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: baths out of the lake or out of the river.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Do you buy that? Do you think that they really
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: like invented that fishery or that method. Um. I wouldn't
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: say they invented it, and I don't know if they
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: would say they necessarily invented it either, But I think, um,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: you know, so many people are used to fishing smallmouth
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: in really big rivers or deep lakes that um, it's
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: a fairly unique situation, having these giant fish and a
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: fairly small river that reads a lot more like a
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: trout stream. So I think because of that situation they
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: probably perfected it. They were just in the perfect place
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: where they had that sort of experimental grounds to play
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: with big dry flies, whereas guys in Pennsylvania or Michigan
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: or whatever, maybe they were just working hairbugs and poppers
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: like they have been forever. Um. So I think just
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the whole scenario. Let those dudes really perfect that. And
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: in fairness, it's not to say they're the only ones
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: to do that. There are some very good guys in
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Michigan smallmouth guides. They do the same thing, but they've
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: honed this sort of very FINESSI much more trout like
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: presentation than than the aggressive stuff most people think you'd
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: need for small amountal do you know that there's an
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: east else? Dude, he's got a book like Fishing River
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: small Mouth and Fishing Stream small Mouth. I got his books.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I probably have it here too. I'm telling you, man,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: I have never my life learned something from a fishing book.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: But he's got those maps. Well that that you have
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: my book, I learned something from your fishing. No, I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: don't mean like that I have Joe and I Okay,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: that was Wronton say, I have Joe's surfishing book. I
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: don't mean that I've learned a lot about like rigs
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and Okay, but hear me out, hear me out. What
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I mean is, you know when people draw a map
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: and it's like I stare. It's like here's a river
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: and it shows like fish here, fish here, fish here.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Right now, I greater detail. I would usually be like
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: somewhat skeptical of that illustration. Okay, Like I just wouldn't
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't. I wouldn't be like, okay, and then go
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: to a river and be like, hey, this is just
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: like in the book, and then cast there, you know
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: what I mean. But he was like, because I used
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: to fish the Delaware over your way for small mouth,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: big nice smallmouth. And I looking at his book and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: where he put his axes all the time, I was like,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: I'm canoeing pass shiploads. According to this guy, I'm canoeing
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: past ship loads of small mouth. And I started casting
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: to where he would put his exes behind rocks and
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: catching bass that I would have never known what they
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: were there, because I would be like, oh, you go
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: to the big deep bends, Yeah, you know, and that's
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: of course, you know, any idiot would know. And then
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: you'd pass. Then you'd go down two more miles of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: the river and not do anything because you're waiting for
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: like the next thing. And meanwhile, every one of those rocks,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: not everyone of them, but like small mouth out of
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: crazy spots man, well smallmouth. And actually it's okay, because like,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: looking back, I feel like I wrote that when I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: was twelve. It was so long, But I bought that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: book not knowing you were brought the book not knowing
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: you or who you were. Yeah, it was served up
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: to me when I was trying to figure out surfcasting. Yeah,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: it's cool. No, that's but to get back to what
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: you're saying about the X is on the map. Um,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: I mean I think people get pigeonholed into that with
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff smallmouth and trout, and what we
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: were doing in Wisconsin plays right into that. Yeah, your
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: average your average dude, he's gonna go for the deep bend,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: the slower bends, the deep hole, the honey hoole. When um,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: if you really know what you're doing and learn from
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: guys like I fished with in Wisconsin, it doesn't make
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: sense for a twenty inch small mouth to be where
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: we were catching them, But you're dealing with guys who
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: understand why, and that's why it was so eye opening
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: a lot too. Yeah, they may have been I see
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: that a lot too with trout, Like nighttime mouse fishing
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: for trout, they are not uh, where where you catch
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: them at night is typically not where you catch them
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: during the day. They move, and you know, everybody goes
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: for the community hole and don't realize how much fish
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: move around on a daily basis. All right, Kevin and Oliver,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: you guys went. He'll explain this to me. Man, Kevin,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: you grew up in muskie country, but you never fished muskie. No,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: I never did, because it seems like everybody always fished
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: them in the fall and I was I was hunting.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: You called a big bull in near night, didn't You
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: sure did? Anyhow, We'll get to that maybe later. Um.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Never did you guys have t tiger muskies? Yeah? I
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: think those like Midwestern lakes and especially in the like
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: near the Twin Cities, to like there's all these fisheries
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: that everybody was fishing. I just never got into it.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: When I was a little kid, it was cool. It
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: was cool to go see that happen, you know, just
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: like thing. It's like a new thing whereverybody's all fired up.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: But like in my grandpa's day, they fish musky by it.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I'll take this the ust the harness rig chipmunks. No,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: that's fantastic. They would they would harness rigged chipmunk and
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: row it out into the middle of the lake and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: put it on a little piece of wood, and it
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't it wouldn't want to jump off, of course not.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just selny man. I didn't do this, and it
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to jump off. You then go to the
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: beach and wait a while and then pull the chipmunk
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: off the board. And that's how they would fish muski.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: One of the ways they would fish musky and just
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: watch it kind of service swimming's wait and wait for
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: something to blow up on wait for something to grab it.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Then would you rotate that out with a fresh one
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: if you made it back to shore. I don't know,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: but I know that a little breather, you've earned your freedom.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: My grandpa would also um. They would. They would do
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that even the unnerved, even me,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: which is they would uh. They would talk about that
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: when you find a big large mouth on its bed,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: what dud as you go dig around under logs until
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: you find a salamander, because everybody knows if you hook
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: a salamander and drop it out of the bed, it'll
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: eat the salamander. And they would take little frogs and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: hook them and have those be swimming around a lot
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: of just stuff that wouldn't fly. They wouldn't fly. Well,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you're talking about about muskie fishing becoming popular and cool now,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: and I think you know something we didn't really have
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: time to cover on in that episode, as much as
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: I would have wanted to, is how much that has
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to do with the fact that musky populations have made
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: a significant rebound lakes. Well, they're dumping them all the lakes.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Is well, I think it's hard to point to one
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: fact now. It's because they're dumping them into all the lakes, man.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: I would I would say that like strains like, oh,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: this lake's got the Bally Who's strain or whatever, you know,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: and it's like he's exciting about it. Yes, it's it's
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: like Leach Lake strains, a big one, the Great Lakes strain,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: and then the one from that river right up in
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: that same area. I'm blanking on the name of that
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: river strain that that's a big one that like grows
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: faster but doesn't get as big. But anyway, you're right
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: dot ones from miles aren't there Polka dot muskies out
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: there too? Those are those Great Lakes streams, I believe,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: like those ones you see from Saint Clair have a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: lot of those like heavy polka dot patterns, and they
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: the States are buying them and dumping them into the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: lakes hopefully. Yeah, but those are giants, right, so they
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: get big And you got all into this, Oliver, I did,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: and I come at it with a completely different perspective
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: because I was pretty much from l a in my
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: whole life and we don't have any muskies or X
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: species anywhere near us, so as a young nothing. Now
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: there's one lake I think it's called Lake Davis in
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: northern California. Somehow Northern Pipe got into and like it
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: was like a big deal and they pretty much poison
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: the lake to try to start over. Uh, they're still there,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: but there's just like this weird thing about them. But
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: we don't have any exposure to them except through the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: content like TV shows, magazines, watching an in Fisherman TV
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: show as a young kid on a Saturday morning, did
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: you grow up like, did you grow up sitting around
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: LA watching fishing shows? Yeah? Man, Yeah, tell your story.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I heard it yesterday's. Yeah. My story is a little
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: different than most. And just to give you a little
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: context of who I was, I've never met my father,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: so watching all this content of like this very heavily
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: father son, uncle's son, some type of paternal figure and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: young child as an entry point into fishing was not
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: me and I just happened to randomly stumble upon it
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: in We talked about it in episode four of season
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: one as well of how I got started in fishing.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: But it was just kind of random. I was ten
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: year old kid on a family picnic at a regional
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: park just outside of l A. Uh. If you guys
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: are fans of Bill and Ted's excellent adventures, um, it's
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: putting Stone Lake on the other side of the freeway
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: from sand Dimon's High school. Good luck with that one man.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: That's that's that's a place that has always been challenging.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: And we were there on a busy weekend. It might
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: have been an Eastern weekend. It was a spring. Uh,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: there's frogs in the in the reeds and stuff. So
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: I was being a ten year old catching things and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: came across a pile of discarded fishing line and back then,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: I guess literally must have been a proxix. I remember
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: seeing signs of like, hey, don't throw fishing trash on
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the story line because it was there and I went
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: through it and I found a couple of those like
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: eagle claws smelled hooks kind of like mix and untangled
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: probably three to four ft of it. And you know,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: the only exposure I had to fishing as a suburban
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: like l a County kid was what I saw on TV, right,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: whether it was like Yogi Bear like cartoon fishing or
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: you know some kind of yeah, like some kind of
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: reference in some TV show like Family Manner used an
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: rcle and them going through the ice. That's why I
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: don't want to ever go by ice fishing, because I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: was traumatized as a young kid because of that show. Um,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know what I was doing, but I
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: had enough sense to like take that three to four
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: ft untangled line, wrap it around the end of a stick,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and I knew I could find earthworms under rocks. So
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: I went to the little creek that fed down into
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the southeast shoreline. Sure enough, found some earthworms. Throwing my
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: little party cup and walk my little happy ten year
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: old ask to the fishing pier where people were fishing,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: and I had my little entourage of coutins with me
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: and pin a worm on that hook and just threw
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: it over the end of the dock. No actually no, wait,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: fly line is what we call it on on the
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: West Coast, so it's literally just your line, a hook
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: in your bait. And my my cousins got bored after
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: five or ten minutes, and I really back whatever, I'm
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: just going to hang out here and just kind of
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: started like dozing off into you know, to me with
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: a wilderness, right, I mean this lake, and and before
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: you know it, I could I feel that tell tell,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: like don't, don't, don't, And in that moment I went
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: to just react and I tried to like pull out
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: whatever this creature was, and that shitty line broke and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: it was probably a blue glod ready or sunfish most likely,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: And but in that moment, especially since I didn't capture it,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I was just totally like just fascinated about like what
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: the hell just happened, Like I need to know. Like
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: that sense of mystery really drove me to want to
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: come back to try to successfully catch whatever that was.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: And I spent that whole week researching every fishing publication
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: I could in the West Covino Public Library because my
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: my mom would take me to the library every day
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: after school, and I would just just read like do
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: decimal system at all, like it was. And it's funny
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: because like you guys are very entrenched in the fly
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: fishing side of things, and a lot of that stuff
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: that was available to me, and even outside of just
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: l A was fly fishing stuff. So like terms like
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: match the hatch and like reading water, like even though
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't really have ways to apply it, like those
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: are really like prominent in my like just my arc
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: as a fisherman. So I went back out there, flooded
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: my grandma's garden because I knew, like if you flood
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: the dirt worms are going to come out, and she
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: was pissed, but I flooded it, got a whole coffee
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: can full of worms because I saw, I saw that's
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: what people put worms in. So we got coffee cans.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Let's let's do this, And went back out there, talking
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: my mom into his spending at the kmard across the
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: street from the library. Got me a crappy little Shakespeare
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: spin cast combo with its little tackle box and everything,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: and I was tying overhand knots because I didn't know
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: how to tie a knot like all that stuff I
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: saw in the encyclopldia was too complicated for me to
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: to digest. So literally a couple of overhand knots like
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: a little dropper loop similar to a drop shot, but
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of a leader coming off like
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: a three Waitte level, very crude, and spent all day
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: on that pier and didn't have just no it was.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: It was like Kevin Bluegil fishing. There's just nothing going on.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. But but at the end of the day,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: end of the day, sun's falling. And maybe this is
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: why I still love fishing afternoons and evenings more so
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: than mornings. Is as that sun was falling, I felt
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: another tick and I wind in a bullhead that were
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: there was like man validation. I'm like, damn, that was awesome.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I did it, and that's led me to sitting here
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: with you guys in Bozeman, Montana. So yeah, it's to
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: me as a West Coast like fishing junkie seeing this
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: like giant freshwater fish with these gnarly teeth and the
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: tactics that these guys in some far off land which
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: is the Midwest. To me, it was like, man, that
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: looks so dope, Like I'll never probably get a chance
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: to go do that, but like, this is fascinating the Midwest.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: It was like it seemed like Marrakesh. It from my world.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: It really couldn't, like you know, getting past like an
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: hour outside of downtown l A to go fishing was
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: an adventure and like not something that I was fortunate
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: to really experience. So to to see myself actually fishing
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: for a muscal lunge didn't really register in my head
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: until it's a great names. They a great name. They
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: should rebrand back to what they used to be most
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: lunch Musca lunch. It's great. It's a great Like animals,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: they're amazing. And the fact that like Kevin grew up
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: like totally like in one of the mecca's of it
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: and didn't partake in it. It was fascinating to me
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: because like I love all styles of fishing and I'll
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: always be a heavy bass fisherman, but like I want
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: to catch the Apex and those systems. They're the Apex,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: like they're they're the top dog. And seeing a four
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: to six foot fish engaging with your hunk of artificial
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: chipmunk boatside is an exhilarating experience. And you start driving
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: out there to go. Yeah, well, I started driving around
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the country chasing big bass, and I started chasing big
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: smallmouth the last four years and got into that, and
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: then I would kind of just randomly encounter muskies wild
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: bass fishing, and last year made it really considered effort
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: to dedicate like two to three months of just chasing
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: a proper muskie and like trying to apply different lure
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: styles and techniques and just trying things that this established
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: muskie fishing culture may not have tried. Because I saw
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: something in that that culture that reminded me of a
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: lot of the different fisheries in the different regions I've
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: got to like engage with and penetrate. It's like they
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: kind of pigeonhole themselves, like Joe is talking about, like
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: in so many ways, like everybody is so afraid of
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: missing out like that FOMO keeps them from experimenting and
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: stepping outside of the norm because they don't want to
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: waste the day, right, because they know excelure works and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: why lure works. So if I try z, I might
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: have wasted that day for that cast. Right, And when
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with the fish of ten thousand casts a right,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: that's a high opportunity cost. Have you ever counted up
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: how many casts it takes to catch musky Well that's
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: skew too, because I also caught one on the first
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: cast of the day once, So they're like, I gotta
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: cast ten thousand more times, right, so like does that reset?
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: And I've also caught them back to back cast, So
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: but like on average I would say, like like ten
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: thousand casts would be optimistic. No, this is what I
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: was curious about. How many casts? Well know, how many casts?
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Have you ever counted up? I have no idea how
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: many casts does the person do? Have you were like
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: calculated it? Actually, someone like at a trade show in
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Italy gave me like this little like cast counting like
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: device thing. Yeah, they have smart rods now that will
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: count that for you. Yeah, when you're musky fish. Because
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: I watched you muskie fish and you have a very
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: polished cast. It looks like you've done it a lot.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying you've done it ten thousand times, you've
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: done it a lot of times. Well, I saw parallels
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: in the muskie fishing, especially on the gear side. Two
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: things I've been doing my whole life, whether that's inshore
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: saltwater fishing in southern California or throwing a big like
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: lure for giant large mouth Like the only thing I
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: really had to account for on the gear side and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: the technical side is those teeth. So experimenting with leader configurations, materials,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: connection like options that was my biggest hurdle because I
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: needed to be able to still fish those lures and
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: articulate them in the way to trigger a bite but
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: not be hindered from like oversized leaders or big barrel
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: swivels to connect my line like little nuances that were
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: affecting How I can like really maximize that hopeful potential
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: opportunity I get once a day on return to cast numbers,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it's a lot. How many? Know? How many
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: can you really hawk out in an hour? And it
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: depends on the fishing style because there are times when
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like burning a bait back, so I'm that that
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: cast takes a lot less time. Then if I'm like
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: really taking my time and fishing an area methodically, like
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: some of my cast can take like five to ten minutes.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: If I know a fish lives on a piece of cover,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: like I will soak a big soft plastic, realistic bait
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: down there, and eventually that fish may like engage with it,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: versus if I'm on a new body of water like
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: dost boat, like I need to cover ground looking for
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: an aggressive fish. Why did you guys go to a
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: lake you've never fish before? I think that's part of
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: the beauty of fishing, is diving into the unknown. But
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: if I had, if I was making a thing, I
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to right, Yeah, there's a balance, right. You
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: can blame that on the oliver. It's okay, okay, cool
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: miles made me fish there. We fish those lakes. I
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: probably would have chose different places, but I didn't know
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: so like that that mystery was it luring to me?
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: I did catch one, so it worked out. Uh. Here's
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: I don't really have a grape of musky, but here's
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: I just want to tell you what I fear about muskies.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: I fear that it's not the fish. I don't blame
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: the fish for anything. I fear that the human the
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: emerging perception of muskies is playing into the gulf ification
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: of fishing, and that the people who think that it's
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: naughty two eat a fish will become so numerous that
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: that will become the norm, and in the dystopian future,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: it'll be that there's just it's just more like that
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: that that natural resources as stuff that you eat will
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: become more fringe and it will be that like, well if, yeah,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: I see why you want to go fishing, but how
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: why would you want to hurt a fish? And so
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: that's like the in the long game, I fear the
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: golfification of fishing. It'll lose its connection to being a
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: food acquisition tool. Right now, I will make this observation
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: about the muskie community, and they remind me so much
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: of like the trophy arge mouth community, Like those fish
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: are so revered and so valuable, and those experiences that
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: they provide us as anglers is that there's like an
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: overprotecting like vibe. Those guys will hammer you on fish
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: handling and care and this and a third, but it's
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: okay to for me to stick a seven out trouble
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: hooking its face, Like where do we draw the line?
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: And we really didn't want to hurt it, right, you
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: stay home? That's it. Yeah, But yeah, I think that's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: what I was just gonna say. That's what was in
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: the Midwest growing up. That was like the old timers
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: thought process. You know, it was like, oh, I'm not
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: gonna go fish. I was, I can't eat them, you know,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: when I was a young dude, I just remember him
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: talking about muskies is like these ferocious predators who they
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: were killing their bluegills. Right, So we always fish for
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: food growing up. But then my younger brother Ian started
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: fish for muskies when I was when I was gone
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: already out west um and that that transition from like,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: oh we can fish for these and we can still
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: go catch bluegills and eat sort of is the norm now.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: I would say, that's kind of what we we showed,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: you know a little bit there, Steve. I understand what
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: you're saying about the muskies and the attitude about them,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you don't think that's been going on
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: long enough now that it's not a concern. I mean,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: they're not the only one, right. Tarpin a lot of
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: guys like to fish for them, but they don't eat
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: them bone fish, same thing. It hasn't stopped people from
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: doing tarpin one day and mangrove staffords the next. So
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: they had something to take to the restaurant and the
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: keys to eat. Yeah, here's why I fear it, Joe,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: if you want to know, because even things like, um,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: it's even emerging with catfish, where it's becoming like like
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: a fish that has always been regarded as a blue
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: collar food fish. Okay, there's either people now where it's
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: like if you catch a big cat, which it's kind
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: of naughty that you ate it, right, and yeah, rivers
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: that there's a fifteen a day, like it might be
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: a bag of them in fifteen channels a day, and
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: then you got like the local cat Fisher's Association lobbying
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: to have it be one a day. Right, so there's
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: a there's a drift, and when it starts going after
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: things like that, um, yeah, just like you know, any
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: little piece of it, I'm not worried about, but the
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: general sense of the minute, you get people who golfify
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: a fish. Um, even when there's no real like there's
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: no sort of like biology behind it, like this river
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: you're talking about the Monomnie River, Like, oh, you know,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: you can't keep fish out of the Monominee. Uh you know,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: because you'll destroy the fishery. Uh. Fish and game apparently
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't know that. Yeah, No, you're right, because you can
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: still keep one. So if that was the truth, I
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: guess what you're saying is they would just make the
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: whole thing no kill, which they haven't. Yeah, like like
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: who And so when people start to take where you
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: have like a team of biologists out there whose job
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: and you haven't and date from the state to manage
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: fisheries in perpetuity. Right, they can't run fisheries into the ground.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to. It happens, but you're not supposed
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: to that. These people can look and be like, yes, um,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: we feel that you can catch whatever the hell channels
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: the channel cats a day out of some river. Um,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: but then you wind up having other outside forces come
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: in like never mind what you've found. We like catching
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: them and letting them go, and our life will get
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: better if the if the the hell billies that come
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: out here to eat catfish weren't able to do that,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: I would have more fun golfing with these fish. See.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's just like I don't know, I don't
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: like it, man, I don't like it. I think it
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: probably stems more from what social media and the internet
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: have done fishing. I think, like I look at that
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: with flatheads, like there's a ton of flatheads in the
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: School River and Philly huge culture and internet forums and
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: groups on on flatheading there, and yeah, nobody ever talks
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: about killing one and eating one there because I think
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: that they would rather have them for an Instagram post
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: than quietly take them home and cook them, even though like, personally,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: I'm right, well, you built an entire business around that's
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: why we're all here. But there is like to say, so, yes, this,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: this should make you upset, and Leary is fine too,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: But there's parts of bodies of water, and there's certain
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: times throughout history that that attitude is very appropriate, and
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: there's times where it's very inappropriate. And some of this
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: is based around, well, you gotta return those big ones
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: because those are the effective breeding fish. Now certain circumstances,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: we need all the effective breeding fish doing what they
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: can because that fishery is in trouble and we need
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: those numbers. And there's there's all these other fascinating factors
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: that I'm learning more and more about every day. Sometimes
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: we just need numbers in order to keep other fish
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: out of the system, and you're gonna have to deal
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: with eight inch trout instead of eighteen inch trout because
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: we just need that mass taken up in the river.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: But there's this other time where it's like, boy, the
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: reason we have a bunch of eight inch trout in
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: here is because nobody's keeping them. And his damn catch
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: and release ethos and folks hooked on dry flies and
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: no bait is what is keeping this river where it's at.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, like the really conservation because it isn't truly
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: about what is best for the fish in this instance, right,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: it also takes into account recreation and economics and uh
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: that the social media, uh what people want and like, um,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: you know what people think about their fishery and what
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: needs to happen. It takes there's a big lag between
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: the biological data and what people think, and when those
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: two meet, you know what I mean, it's like you
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: mean like when you do surveys, everybody says they would
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: like to catch more bigger fish. Yes, right, and then
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: it's like that deal down on the snake, right, we're
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: right a whole fishing games like great, what we need
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: to do is kill a lot of rainbows and everybody's like, oh,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: we don't really want to do that. It's like, well,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: you want more cutthroat and bigger fish. We need to
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: kill a lot of rainbows. No, you're still not doing it. Okay,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pay you to do it, and you can
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: keep as many as you want. Oh you're still not
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: doing it. Okay, Well we're gonna pay you to do it.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: You can keep as many as you want, and then
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: you can give them to us and we'll give them
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: to a food bank. Oh you're still not doing okay.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Well jeez, Well that's when you got to go to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: the move that happens now and then. Is it's illegal
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: to let them go alive? Yeah? Yeah, And there are
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: fisheries like that. You can't let it go alive, right,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: Flaming gorge right now, Bourbon, If you catch a bourbon,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: you gotta keep it illegal to let it go. Yeah.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: But I want to ask this question with specifically back
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: to the muskies, right, and and we talk about a lot.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: We talked about how the dollars that are spent on
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: tags and license sales go toward things that we believe
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: in management practices that are important. Right, and so if
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about fisher let's just let's take
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: Green Bay as an example. There are in the last
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: ten years, really five, but let's go back ten years.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: That has become known as a one of these places
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: to go for trophy muskies, Like if you want to
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: catch a fifty incher, that's the place you go in
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Green Bay. Yes, and that has led to a signal,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: nificant influx of people coming there buying those licenses because
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: they want to catch those fish. Guilty, and and and
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: and that that is bringing in revenue dollars that are
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: going towards management and conservation. If those big fish weren't there,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: if people didn't want to get their picture taken with
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: that fifty in fish, you could I think there's a
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: clear argument you can make that there would be a
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: loss of revenue toward conservation management of those fisheries. I
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: think there's value there. I get the I'm not arguing
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: with the golfers were tribal. We're tribal people many um
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: and I UH associate with and empathize with, and UH
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: feel inclined to look out for the interests of a
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: group of people. And there are layers to it, and
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: at the tightest core is on like the person whose
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: interests I want to advocate on behalf of would be
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: the person who v use um wildlife management as being
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: a combination of maximizing suitable habitat maximizing wildlife populations in
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: order to allow sustainable use, sustainable extraction. And they're still
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: gonna get that picture. It's just the fish is going
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: to be kind of covered in mud and have a
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: dent nuts forehead. It's a little bit of blood. It's
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: so just like raising kids. You have a child, now, okay,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: a little thing, right, they look at you, kind of
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: roll their eyes. Right, You're like, is that in and
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: of itself the end of the world? No, but I
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: noticed it. I noticed it. I didn't like it. And
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: then they kind of do this, and you're like, is
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: that in and of itself? I mean that my kids
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: a darrel looked No. Did I like it? No? And
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: so when I look like all these little pieces of this,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: like the muskie thing, I went out musky we went
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: to night so um, and when we used to catch
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: tiger muskies we'd be bummed out when they weren't legal size. Yeah, so, uh,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: in and of itself, is this little thing going to
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: like ruin the wild foods world? No? But do I
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: like it? Yeah? A little suspicious of it. I think,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: I think the suspicion is fair. I'm not. I'm not
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: arguing that point. I'm really not, and I've I mean,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: you talk about the Snake River. I used to cover
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: these stories all the time when I was writing for
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: fly fishing magazines because it was fun to piss off
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: people and talk about that, Like the beaver Head. I
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: did a whole thing on the beaver head and how
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: stunted those fish are and how the biologists are begging people.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: You know, they were trying to talk about making a
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: seventy five fish a day limit, and I know, seriously,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: and I didn't. You didn't give a dude to ticket
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: if he had seventy six. But I was like the cooler,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: damn it. It was an interesting conversation with this biologist
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: because like, seventy five fish, man, like, you can't get
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: people to keep three. What makes you think that going
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: to seventy five they're gonna they're gonna do it. He's like,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: because I'm trying to bring in a different group of anglers,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to convince these guys to go who
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: won't take one to get seventy five. But if I advertised, like, hey,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: you can keep seventy five fish a day. Here, I'm
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: going to get a different group of anglers that's coming
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: in and they're gonna feel cooler. Yeah, you're gonna have
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: some bloody knuckle. Dude take notice and be like, there
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: must be something going on there that I need to
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: find out about the big hole right next to the
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: beaver head. Or I was reading um in the Montana
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: UH Fishing Game magazine, Old I should clarify they didn't
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: change it seventy five. That never happened, just so everybody
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: like that didn't go through. But that was what they
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to do. A big hole. Regulations were ten pounds
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: of fish plus one per person per day, plus one
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: plus plus not one pound, but plus one fish. Do
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: you have it any idea like what that was meant
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: to do? I don't even know who I could talk to.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: I'll figure that out though, because that has obviously stuck
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: with me. Some guy called his representative and said, wow,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: I caught ten pounds. Then I caught a real giant,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: and well I supposed to let it go. And he's like,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: what we'll do is we'll adjust the regulations to say
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: ten pounds plus one. Seems like great. Thanks, put your
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: food aside at the beginning of the day and then
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: you can. But if you really get one, you just
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: can't stomach letting go. Yeah, keep him too. So uh,
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: but you caught a muskie for this show. Yeah? Yeah,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: the stars aligned saw a little window in that morning
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: and we got one. You know, it's hard, one of
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: the hardest things for a cameraman to do the moment.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: They always catch your reeling, but I don't catch the
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: hookups because what are the odds casts, what are the
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: odds that they're low. I asked for four days minimum
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: for this shoot, initially only for we got three, but
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: like I have to, I just have to jump in
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: and add just give props because on our shoot they
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: had a camera guy this crew. He swore he was
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: on my fly on every single drift the entire time
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: we were there. He's like, if that gets eaten, I
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: will not miss it. Did he hold up to did
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: he hold up to the I think he got all
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: the eats? I really do ye. Big shout out to Bryson,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: Brian Gregson, you were going for there, I was. I
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: was going for Paul Bourke on that if if he
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: was listening because he was on that fly the entire day. Ken.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: I got a question for you, Kevin Harlander. Why isn't
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: that when I was reviewing the cut to edit. Are
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: they messing with you? Or they make it be that
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: you never even catch up bluegill? Probably? I definitely boated
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: some fish, that's sure. I was just there for the jokes.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: I think they make it seem like when you guys
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: switch the bluegill fishing, which is my style of fishing,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: they make it seem like Oliver is just blowing them up. Yeah.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: I was trying to make a point with the whole
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: leech slip bob or set up and didn't really work out.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: He's trying to wrap the Midwest to the fullest. He
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: stuck away the did you uh did you not catch
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: a blue gill? I put my in my notes, I
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: put like, did he really not catch up bluegill? So
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: I caught some bluegills? Good? I think you's talked about
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: one scene. You guys remember that one scene where like
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: we first switched the bluegill and Oliver put on the
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: drop shot. Did the drop shot rig? And it was
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: that first time Kevin were like that in that one hole,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: you really did blank but I think it wasn't. It
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't like from there on out you never got another
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: like you got into him, but in that one hole, Yeah,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: it didn't look good for you. Yeah, that's Paul said.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: It wasn't gonna make me look bad. But that got call?
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: Uh what? Um? How happy already catched? Like? Was it
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: did it strike you as uh, you know, to catch
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: a muskie out there? Were you like about time or
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: were you thinking, man, we got lucky. Um. I've spent
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of time fishing them in the last eighteen
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: months now, and I knew that catching one on film,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: with all the pressures that come with it, it was
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: not gonna be easy. But I felt good about our odds,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: like I've put in that time, and I gained some
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: confidence in that that fishing style, and I wasn't surprised
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: by it. I felt like we should have had another
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: chance at a truly big fish and that didn't come.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Can you tell people about the um the figure eight deal? Yeah,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: which is like, what do you want to know about
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: It's It's well, I just explained to people the strategy
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: of the figure eight, Like do you only throw a
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: figure eight when you see it? You don't do it
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: every time. This is going back to kind of like
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: that lore and like that mysticism that was muskie fishing
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: to a California kid, right like oh, the figure eight,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: Like what is this? And it's this boat side mechanic
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: that accounts for the behavior of these muskies where they'll
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: track your bait all the way to the boat. And
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: if you can maintain that fishes focus on your lure
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: even boat side, you stand a pretty high chance of
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: getting it to still bite your lure even though he's
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: like basically staring at you, staring at you, I mean,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: even like your whole rod is in the water, Like
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: it's crazy, because like that just seems so foreign to
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: so many different fishing cultures, and it's it's very prominent
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: in muskie fishing to where like some fisheries like Lake
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: of the Woods they say like two thirds of your
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: bites actually come boat side, like you'll suck those fish
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: up from a long cast and you can expect it
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: to actually make it like kill attempt at some point
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: on the at at the boat. And for me that
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: that was the first time I actually caught one doing it,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: after tens of thousands of repetitions and failed repetitions. And
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: I think part of that was because of where I
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: was doing most of my muskie fishing was really high visibility,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: clear water. Those fish would see us and the boat
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: and spook like by the time I went into the
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: first turn versus like Lake of the Woods is much
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: like dirtier water, so they I just don't think they
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: are as skittish. And I got my first one after
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: watching this in muskie follow my freaking white poodle looking
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: lure like around and around and around, and we're all like, dude,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: it's still there. And on the first the fourth turn,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: it actually got it. And it's like the water just
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: like cutting circles the rod right I'm and I'm going
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: like high, like away from the boat, and I'm changing
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: elevations and like trying to pump it on the turns,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: like just trying to get it to trigger and watching
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: this fish just engage with my thing as I'm walking
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: it in like this big circle four times around, and
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: when it actually made the commitment, We're all kind of like, oh, ship,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: it's got it. Like this is a real thing, and
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: it's It's a fascinating fishing technique and one that I've
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: actually previously applied with large amouth bass fishing, and it's
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: not as like aggressive of like a figure eight And
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: most of the time I'm actually doing like ovals because
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: those bigger fish apparently have a harder time like turning
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: on a dime and have got big predatory like skittish
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: like where we like educator conditioned fish to make a
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: mistake with inches of line off my rod tip. I
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: did it yesterday on the Yellowstone. Got a brown shout
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: to eat my jerk bait because I was trying to
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: burn it in to make a cast at a snag
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: and this like nineteen inch brown shout just blines it
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: like fastest hell and boat side like I didn't. I
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: was about to go into a figure eight turn because
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: I've just built that into my mechanics. It didn't even
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: give me a chance. It just snuffed it well, like
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: right at the end of my rod tip. But I've
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: actually started incorporating it like on some other fishing like
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: it's like murray cod fishing in Australia, a barrow mundy,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: like it's a it's a underutilized fishing style for all fish.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: But like the muskie guys, like you have to make
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: that boat side mechanic at least one revolution, especially in
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: like low light or low visibility situations, whether the water
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: is dirty or nighttime fishing, because you don't know if
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: there's one on it or not. And sometimes like you'll
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: suck one in and it will camp out under the
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: boat and then like on the six cast later or
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: something like, it could just hid he's been the whole time. Potentially,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: they do that, so you you're supposed to do it
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: every time, and it it's kind of like that Murphy's
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: All thing. Every time someone that's super green to muskie
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: fishing comes on my boat and I'm trying to like
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: tell him figure eight every time at least one revolution
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: because that'll give you time to kind of like watch
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: and see if there is one in the area. And
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: everybody gets lazy. Man. It's a mental focus thing, like
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: and the one time they don't do it, guess what happens.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: It's big, big old musky was on it and maybe
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: if you had actually gone into a turn, it could
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: have ate it, but you never gave it that shot
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: and you just blew your shot for the day, you know, potentially,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: So it's it's an exercise of like this mental focus
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: and hyper focus. Then that's what drew me into it
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: as a fishing like culture because that's like right up
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: my alley with like the engagement I'm expecting and living
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: trophy bass fishing, like I'm trying to catch a fish
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: that most people on average will never see all the time,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: so I have to maintain this level of hyper focus.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: And for me, like the musky fishing, I was like, oh, like,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: you're just a dumb bass guy from California. You don't
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna do any good. Like you're gonna throw
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: that thing now here, man, throw this, throw these two
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: things that every other musky fisherman I've ever talked to
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: tell me to throw. It's like, yeah, I'm not gonna
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: do that. Road. Yeah, I went rogue and I stuck
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: some good fish and had a lot of fun, like
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: learning the process and failing on my own and trying
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: to pick and choose from these hardcore muskie guys who
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: I respect so much as a culture as again a
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: type of angler. But like, at the same time, how
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: do you know that there isn't a better way to
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: catch a musky or a different because you went and
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: talk to everybody at the fly shop, Oliver, they told
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: you what's up? Yeah you can, you can skip all
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: that stuff, right. Yeah. I enjoy the process of learning,
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately experience and failure is the best way to learn. Yeah,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: it really is until you actually like live it and
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: can have that opportunity to make that adjustment on your
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: next opportunity. Yeah. I think here and stuff is great,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: but then making it your own is particularly helpful. Man, totally,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: because I think when you're doing something with confidence, you
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: do it differently and do it better, right, Slightly differently
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: and better for with confidence, right, is a huge part
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: of it. And nobody like the amount of people that
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: have the stomach for failure over and over again is
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: just not a lot of folks like that. They're like, man,
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: I need some success though. We're talking to uh, we're
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: talking to the baseball player Peter Alonzo. He saw about
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: the psychology of baseball players and being a bad or.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: He's his baseball is a game of failure. It's just
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: all failures because if you can um succeed ten percent
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: of the time, you might be regarded as phenomenal failure.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: So it's like you get really used to it's not
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: every time you get out to the plate like bayam homer,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: bayam homer, right, have a good homer because I'm doing
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: the bad Like if you're bating a hundred, you're not.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: You're not doing that right, great better than me, but
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what the hell number. Yeah, maybe he
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: said they're amazing. Point being, he's like, it's more typical
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: to fail at bat, absolutely than it is to succeed
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: at bat. I think that applies for anything that's hard
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: to do, anything that is like revered. It shouldn't be
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: easy because no one cared be like blue your fit
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: toss boat? Do you don't be hacked on blue gill fishing? Now,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: why wasn't you guys were incapable of catching the big
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: mouth buffalo? I mean, like you can't put the you guys,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: it was it was me, cal was smarter than Me's
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: like that looks stupid. I'm not going to do that.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: You go ahead, But what were you trying? Like most
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: of them? I mean people do catch them, yes, yeah,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: most they shoot a lot with bows in the river
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: like there's and certainly like in the more of the
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: moving water as opposed to like the stag nut stuff.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not putting anybody down here. But like that that
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: is very doable, very very well within the realm of
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: what people would consider success, like not that much of
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: a trick, but going out on the big water with
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: the big old fish very doable as well. But that
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: is going to take a lot, a lot of failure
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: to figure out what were you trying to do? All right,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I should give a little context
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: on what this fish is because not that people know that.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: Everybody sees me. I think they're looking at the cart
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: right and and just so everybody knows, big mouth buffalo
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: are not carb, They're not even related to car. They're
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: the world's largest sucker and there they are native fish
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: in North America, and they're incredibly cool. And I used
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: to support a commercial fishery they did. Yeah, I've not
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: eaten one. I've heard they're very delicious. We have grilled
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: the ribs on them. Really, there's guys in Wisconsin take
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: the ribs, clean the fish and then they take the ribs,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: leave it on the bone Brussia with barbecue sauce and
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: grill it and then you suck the ribs clean like
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: you're eating pork ribs. Nice. Yeah, it's good. It's still
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: a commercial fish and Tennessee. Yeah, yeah, and I believe
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: Louisiana as well. Yeah, the last I could find, which
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't super contemporary, but the last commercial fishing report I
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: found from Louisiana. They were a small send it to
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: the commercial fish, but they were they still were representative there.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: But anyhow, uh, we learned about these fish. I think
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: I think you actually turned me onto that cal You
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: turned me onto that that study that came out and
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: because I can't remember what it was, member of old
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: fish uhest known fish in the in the US freshwater fish. Yeah,
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: there was this assumption that they lived like the same
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: length as other sucer species, so twenty thirty years, but
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: no one had ever tested that. They're they're a rough fish.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: They don't get much attention. No one had really studied
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: them much at all. And then this guy named Alec
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Lackman decided he was gonna do a study. He was
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: gonna pull out the odlet bones from some of these
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: fish and age them from from in his home turf
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: in Detroit Lakes and discovered, first of all, the oldest
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: fish he found was a hundred and twelve and second
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: of all couldn't really find any fish under eighty years
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: old in that system. And it was because they have
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: been gone to ship, right, And so there's no successful
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: reproduction anymore, just all fish that were born prior to
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: going to ship. Wasn't that something like that? Well they
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: don't know like it had been. Yeah, there's there's you
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: know with all things. It's like, okay, well here we
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: we found this. We can make a lot of speculative ideas, right, like, well,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: that fish landed on your car because two birds were
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: having a fight. Um, you know, oh this elk got
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: stuck in the mud. That's how it ended up on
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: your boat anchor or your dog anchor, right, um. And
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: so that's where they're at with this, and and uh
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: you know, so they do have some funding. They're going
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: to release another paper coming up. But yeah, the the
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: idea is something has happened that UM has limited recruitment.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: So there is they think some some successful spawning, but
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: there is no successful recruitment mean meaning that UM eggs
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: are being produced and inlaid, but they are not uh
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: you know, rearing a new age class of fish UM,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: and that that's happening in very very limited doses as
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: compared to other populations that are successfully spawning and having
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: successful recruitment outside of this system. UM. They know that
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: the sucker fish UM can have some pretty amazing uh
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: migrations for spawning, and they know that that that can't
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: happen in this system that they're looking at right now,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: do you know, do to some man made factors. So
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: they're like, ah, this could be something. And if they
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: look at the fact that they have eighty two and
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: twelve year old fish, it lines up very well with
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: how some of these waterways have been manipulated. Yeah, there
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: are a couple of things that looked at. One is
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: is changing the hydrology, putting in dams and things like that.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: But the other thing is right around that time is
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: when common carp showed up. And common carp fill a
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: similar niche in the ecosystem as these fish. They don't
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: just look alike, they feed similarly, they spawned similarly. Even
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: though they're not at all related, they're in the same
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: place as doing some similar things. So it could be
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: that it's because of the changes to this waterway. It
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: could be the introduction to this of this invasive species.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: It could be considering they know that these fish can
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: be over a hundred years old and still be capable
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: of spawning, still be pretty fit, in good shape. They
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: may be fish that don't successfully recruit every year or
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: even every ten years, but they just don't know. So
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: it's still uh people just figured this out last year,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: so that those research is brand new, and we got
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: to go hang out with the dude who's doing this
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: research and and get to get to meet some of
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: these fish. Say he's interested in what he's doing would
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: be a gross understatement. What does he What does this
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: individual feel about the fact that people go out and
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: fill garbage cans and dumpsters full of car and probably
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: are mixing in all kind of big mouth buffalo in there.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: You know, I would say it doesn't like it. But
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: there's part of him. Uh Alec has a uh an
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: interesting brain, for sure. There's part of him that knows
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: that these people value that fish, even if it's just
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: to shoot, and that could in turn be valuable to
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: keeping this fish around. When I was out both fishing
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: with Jared Fink in Wisconsin, they you could definitely tell
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: because if you knew what you're looking at, you would
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: know a big mouth buffalo when you saw it, and
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: they would like it. Yes, yeah, they still shoot it, yeah,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: but they would prefer to get it and that would
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: be like and that's one of the amazing things that
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: really came to light, um because we talked with a
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: you know, a guy who you know, like anybody who
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: really gets turned onto some kind of fishing or hunting,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: like started both fishing about fifteen years ago and then
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: he kind of figured out how to be the best
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: bow fisher mountain and got really really invested into it.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: And he holds the big mouth buffalo in very high
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: regard to the point where, um, it used to be
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: that that is the fish he would target to where
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: it wasn't sporting for him to go after karp and so,
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: but he still likes to shoot him. But he has
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: seen firsthand that the population is going down. But there's
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: some challenges associated with this, you know, big old fish
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: that are much more desirable from like a sporting aspect,
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: which again could be you know, something that you could
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: harn us for the preservation of this species. And so
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: what were you guys trying to do? We were, well,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: we were trying to do two things. One we wanted
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: to go meet this dude and learn about these fish
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: because we turned onto the story. We think it's fascinating.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: And in this Detroit Lakes area where we were focusing
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: part of our story, you know, that's the area where
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: they can't find fish. Are hardly any fish under eighty
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: years old. And I think it was ten years ago
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: it became legal to bow fish at night with no limit,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: and so guys are pulling out thousands of pounds of fish.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: You know, we were talking to both fisher said, yeah,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: I get five hundred pounds a night. Used to be
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: on a regular basis. And now they're not seeing them
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: of big mouth buffalo, big mouth buffalo, not carp, not carp.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: This is what this is what we were told, not anymore. Now.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: He's like, man, I remember ten years ago, you go out,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: you go out for a few hours, you literally fill
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: your boat. Now you go out, you might see a couple.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: And and so they're they're seeing a dramatic change because
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: these fish aren't reproducing, and the bow fishers really want
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: to shoot them because they think it's really fun, it's
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: great sports. So they would call it instead of saying
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: they were going carp shooting, they would go buffalo shooting. Well,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: they'll shoot they'll shoot carp or dog fish or sheeps
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: or other things as well, but buffalo were like the
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: prime target. They were apparently the most challenging fish, and
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: they fought the hardest. So those are the ones that
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: they wanted to get, but were they were They garbage
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: in them all. So they're still throw them in a
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: dumpster and put him on the field. Whatever helps you
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: do exactly. Yeah. The exception, I mean really, if you
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: especially if you look at the gross poundage, the exception
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: to the rule would be eating them. Yeah. I went
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: to a bow fishing tournament one time, kind of covering
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: a bow fish and tournament and just everything to do
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: a dumpster man, and it was a lot of carp
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: but it was also a lot of native fish. Yeah,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: tons a long nose gar fish, dog fish into a dumpster.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: I went to a shark tournament one time, and they
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: fill a dumpster. They fill two dumpsters. Blue sharks, no
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: two dumpsters. The UH Tennessee regulations allow you to dump
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: those things back into the waterway that you got him in, uh,
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: which to me is seems more appropriate than throwing him
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: in a landfill somewhere. At least you got nutrients going
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: back into the system somehow, some way, But it is
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: just it's hard not to see it all as very wasteful.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: If you can put if you can go in into
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: a fishery and put slot limits in place, you can
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: ask hunters not to shoot female bears, right. You can
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: request that hunters don't shoot uh Nanny's on mountain old
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: hunts ship. That takes like a trained eye to figure out.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: You can put antler restrictions in place, being like it's
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: got to have three points on one side. Whatever. Like
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: you can ask people to have like a little to
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: have a discerning I why not just have it be
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: that like, yeah, you can shoot carp, shoot carp. That's
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: that's what they're talking about here. And and we got
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: to have a really I felt like it was an
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: interesting and productive conversation with a couple of hardcore both
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: fishers who love to shoot buffalo and Alec Lackman, this
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: this biologist and and have a dialogue in place that
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: was really more about, Hey, we need to talk to
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: we need to talk about finding a way to manage
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: these fish because this is not sustainable. No one's pointing
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: anybody out is like you're the bad guy, You're the
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: good guy whatever. In fact, shooting carp out of there
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: might really help these fish. So by all means, don't
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: stop bow fishing, but let's think about how we manage
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: these fish because this is not sustainable. But because this
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: research is so new, you know how long that stuff
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: takes to filter into actual regulation hasn't gotten there yet.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: And so my hope is that by maybe making this episode,
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: having this conversation, we're getting more people to talk about it.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: The thing that this can't be is it can't be
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: a situation where we're pointing the finger at bow fishers
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: and saying, you guys are screwing this up, because that's
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: not the case. Both fishers aren't the ones that are
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: preventing these fish from recruiting. They're just doing what they
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: love to do. And if if we it's just like
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: additive stuff. Yeah, But if we can get that community
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: on board with like, hey, yeah, we do want to
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: manage these fish because I want my kids to be
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: able to shoot him, that's just a broader coalition of
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: folks trying to figure this problem out instead of factionalizing
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: it and breaking it up. And you're looking at like,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: you know, the leave the big ones alone type of adage.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: The old big ones are the successful spawners. Well that's
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: literally all that's left. And these big females, these hundred
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: year old females, Like you're talking millions of eggs on
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: the spawn, so potentially, um, you know, laying off them
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: and figuring out what is going to lead to successful
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: recruitment could be a relatively fast turnaround too. So it's
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: not like next generation type of thing. Uh. I grew
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: up bow fish, and we just like the bow fish.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: I still both fish now now and then. I do
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: think that the thing that kind of like justifies the
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: thing that justifies bow fishing when you're just bow fishing
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: to shoot fish and throw them away, is that you're
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: dealing with a non native, delterious, non native species. So
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: it's like shooting carp. You know, Um, if you went
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: to any fisheries manager, any serious fisheries manager in the
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: country instead, if if you could wave a magic wand
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: and make the common carp vanished from these waters, they
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: would all wave it, right, everyone would wave it. You're
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: not gonna go find a fisheries manager, a serious fisheries
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: manager and say, like, if you could wave a magic
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: cart wand and make big mouth buffalo vanished from their
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: native range. No one's gonna wave the damn wand so
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: I just don't like the same way that when you're
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: bow fishing, you're not allowed to shoot large mouths. You're
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: not allowed to shoot yellow perch. You're not allowed to
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: shoot Wally's hypas and W's uh. I don't know, man,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: it's not I don't think it's like blaming that. It's
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: not like blaming them, but it's just like it's like
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: a real management oversight. It's like if you're shooting stuff
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: because you want to throw it into a dumpster, shoot
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: something we don't want. But I think I think there's
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: an education problem here because a lot of people do
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: think they are carp because people call them buffalo carp
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: and and those same both fishes we were talking to
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: said like, we thought we were doing the lakes of favor.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: We thought we were removing a problem species until this
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: guy Alec came along and told us we were wrong. Yeah,
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: but it's not. It is funny too, because you're like, oh, yeah,
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: I can see how you know. It's tired to you're
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: really gonna give a kid a ticket for mistaking this
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: fish for a carp But then it's like all the
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: other things that we do, right, Uh, you can only
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: shoot one hand mallard and they're flying at twenty So
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: are you really gonna give a ticket a ticket for
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: shooting too? Yes? Yeah, But then there's all these other
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: things in wildlife management, right, Like I've talked to people
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: who are pro mountain goat, as pro mountain goat as
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: it could possibly be, and they're like, well, yeah, the
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: tag has got to be either sex because you don't
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: want some kid not you know, miss identifying uh nanny
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: for a billy. I'm like, well, yeah, but it's pretty
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: freaking easy to identify it billy if you put yourself
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: in the right situation. Just ask Pete Munich, who made
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: the World's Greatest video about how to telling nanny from
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: a billy? Great video. Yeah, and uh, and that's always
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: just been a stumper for me. I'm like, is it
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: that much of a stretch to ask? I mean, they're
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: they're testicle sack is about the size of a cantaloupe,
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: and they seem to be real proud of it. On
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: the goat thing, there are interesting ways they deal with
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: it where um, there's units in Alaska, they give out
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: of either sex tag. It's mandatory reporting, so you have
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: to report your animal, you have to bring it in
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: for reporting. If you shoot a nanny, you don't, uh,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: you're not eligible for the draw for five years or
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: seven years or something. If you shoot a billy, you're
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: up to bat next year. That is fantastic. And they
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: haven't made it like, they haven't made it wrong, but
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: they've definitely And I'll tell you what. When I hunted
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: that unit um that to put it over the edge
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: for me their consequences, I was like, man, they really
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: really don't want you to shoot a nanny. And then
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: we didn't, and it was that little thing. I'm like
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: the fact that that little shame they put into it.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: It's like a little shame with some teeth makes a
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: difference now the recreational aspect of Buffalo. Miles and I
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: talked about this quite a bit because I was kind
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: of laughing, you know, and like, yeah, sure, yeah, you know.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: I if I were in this system and I'd really
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: exploited all there is to exploit, I could see how
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: I could get really into trying to trick these things consistently.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm not there yet, you know, but
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: it is really freaking funny to sit there and do
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: the color commentary while Miles as fishing as I ass
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: off for him, trying to site fishing, all site fishing,
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: and we should clarify in the lake these fish again,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: they're older than my grandparents. Like, there's not anything they
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: haven't seen. They've been shot at with bows, like there's
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: nothing that I'm gonna do that they're not gonna notice. Right,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: and these fish will you'll move in. You'll find them
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: circling in these shallow bays. I'm like, okay, I've gone.
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: I see one count right over there. They can't hear anybody.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: Just start whispering anyway, and I try and make a
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: cast and lead them and drop that. They own their
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: filter feeders, so you gotta throw small, small stuff at them, right.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: I wasn't fishing a fly rod because I wanted to
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: be cool. With a fly rod. That was the only
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: way I could get a bait small enough to trick them.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: So they're not they're not going to pick up a
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: leaf form no, now, according to I mean, well, I
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: won't say no. The stomach analysis is really there's lots
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: like micro crustaceans, and then there's these odd ball things
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: that Alec can kind of theorize on of like you know,
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: his cousin has caught two in the same bay on
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: crank baits. Yeah, so every once in a while they
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: will attack something, but but primarily when you're seeing these fish,
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: you can watch them because it's clear water. They're just
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: cruising through and just like a whale or a whale shark,
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: they're opening their big, wide mouths and they're just sucking
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: in whatever's in front of them and just keep going.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: So they're not going to move to take something. You can't.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: You put a leaf worm out there, but they're not
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: gonna like turn and eat it. You have to get
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: something that looks appropriately. You're trying to ran something from
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: his face so he can suck it in on accident, correct,
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: But it's not not necessarily on accident, right, you wanted
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: to look like a little subaquatic insect the things that
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: they're eating, but he would be to avoid it. Then
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: to justin Halett and what would happen. Then I would
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: set the hook and it would be game on. But
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: didn't in theory, so in the in the lake, I
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: don't know what happened in theory, I mean, what would happen. Oh,
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: what would happen is that these fish would see us
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: and they go from like happily feeding about a foot
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: under the surface. As soon as they see the boat,
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: they dropped down like to six ft and then they
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: get not an arrow range, yeah, because you have been
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: flinging arrows at them. Are they too far out horizontal distance? Yeah? Sure,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: So they're up at the surface doing that and they're
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: like near near they call them, yeah, not sucking mud up.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: They don't have a downturn mouth. Sorry you can say. Actually,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: their mouth, unlike a lot of those fish, actually faces forward.
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: It's not a downturn mouth like like not like a
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: red like a red horse sucker or a lot of
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: those other sarcer species that are are really pouty. It's
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: a forward facing mouth. Yeah. If you if you people
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: out there want to go way back in time, we
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: did a meat eater episode many many many years ago,
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: turkey hunt. But we did go out night and shoot
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: some big mouth buffalo long ago. But in the Wisconsin.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: What we did do though, was we then chased them
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: around on the Mississippi River where they are spawning more
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: successfully and there are more of them, and we we
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: hooked up with this other dude who consistently catches them,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: and we did hook a few there, and uh yeah,
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: I still got my ask kicked. I broke, I broke
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: one off. I straightened the hook out on another one,
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: another one just just it didn't stick. It was It
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: was maddening, but it was also like I gotta go back.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: I'm so those fish were more like the so the
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: ones in the in the lakes were like fifteen to
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: forty pounds. The ones in the river were like five
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: to twelve. So they're smaller fish, huge fish. But you
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: see that fly dropped down in front of them, because
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: it's pretty darn clear, you know, and you watch that,
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: uh buffalo would like either just like sink below it
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: or just like go to the side of it or whatever.
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: And we were laughing. I'm like, yeah, that fish is thinking, Ah,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: i'm quaw hooks. I remember when those came out. I
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: had There's a possibility that I might have had one
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: eat on that lake or I might have just flussed it.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: Either way, it hook didn't stick. I can't I can't
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: prove it one way or the other. But I had
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: one moment of like hope, and by a moment, I
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: mean like a split set. Were you using uh well,
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: you were using the trolling motor on toss boat to
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: come up on him. Oh yeah, sneaking up and like
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: they know that noise trolling motorate, like one power came
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: out some of those Like god, I remember that, those
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: those those old fish just put me man. I cal
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: was smarter. He was standing in the back throwing like
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: a little jighead and catching everything else while I just
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: made a fool a golt minnow, Sir Melie. That wow,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: first time I've ever known a goat minnow. And that
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: thing is catches a wide variety of fish very consistently.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: H What tell me a couple of things you did catch? Uh?
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: Caught some you know, different panfish species. Caught some croppy bass,
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: andy wally dogs. W No, I don't think we have
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: a couple of pike. Yeah, um, but it was yeah,
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: it was funny like catching those croppy and and so
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: the It's one thing I didn't know but makes complete
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: sense is those sunfish hybrid eyes. And somebody caught a
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: hybrid bluegill readier slighter readier not real weird one that's
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: a real weird one. Um, But anyway, it was a big,
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: big sunfish, cool looking. So all right, episodes we haven't discussed,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna skim through them. When we got yeah,
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: I thought a little bit about it. Lake Trout um
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: right near my home, so you know, we used to
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: catch like you know everybody like go troll quote the
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: big lake uh Lake Michigan growing up. And we went
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: out with um friend of mine who's a charter captain
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: who normally fishes a boat where they put out what
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: was he telling me? Seven? They can fish like twenty rods? Yeah,
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: he says, more normal is seventeen to the point where
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: they have lines with with using um, I mean the
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: fishing down riggers, planning boards, dipsi divers. They're usually fishing
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: lines sixty yards out each side of the boat, so
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: they're covering one twenty yards of water. What because they
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: have an array of like said down riggers straight down.
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: Then the next step out are there running dipsey divers.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: And they sometimes put so much line out that the
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: dipsey divers banging the bottom of water. The dipsey diver
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: dredging all the sand is like in waves out there
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: and that DIPSI divers hitting the top of all those
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: sand waves, and then beyond that you got planer boards one, two,
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: and three. So yeah, they got they're running fifteen hooks,
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: fifteen lines in a hundred and twenty yard wide swath
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: and you can imagine they locate a couple of fish.
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: I mean the thing that like the other boats like
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: don't go within a hundred and twenty yards of any
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: other boat. Yeah, they're real like cautious about all the boats.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: But uh so here he is. We were running how
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: many were running five covering made about the thirty yards
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: swath of water. So he was very frustrated. But still
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: he's a lake trout catching machine. We still call a
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: lot of fish. Looked like you guys did. We had
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: a great time and that that little boat was fun, man,
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: because it's like, you know, like when I was a kid,
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: you know, we had a troll. We had like a
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: big lake boat which had to be a StarCraft um
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: and two to four foot waves. You'd almost kind of
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: think about not going four to six. You're like, there's
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: no way two to four would suck. Zero to two
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: was cool. On the day we went out glass like
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: never happened. Never happens, and it never happens. When you
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: plan in a trip six months, you know, it's like
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: it happens, but it doesn't happen. When you're like we
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: will fish on June seven, you know, and then like
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: you show up on June sevens like like certainly it'll
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: be like the worst day of the year, but no
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: glass glass. Yeah, that was amazing. I lost five out
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: of my seven planned days on Green Bay muskie fishing
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: last fall, and I was in a bass boat. Yeah,
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: we say Gordon Lifefoot's record, the Evan Fitzgerald. He offers
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: a synopsis of all the Great Lakes and he says,
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: like Michigan steams like a young man's dreams. It's islands
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: and bazar for sportsmen. He was correct. We had a
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: great fish and then a very own Danielle Pruett goes
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: out with Frank smith Wirst Smethurst and they fish love Smith.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: I wish smith Wirst was here. They catch a variety
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: of fish. They're targeting another um fish of ill repute,
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: the freshwater dru fresh drone, the sheep's head, another much
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: maligned native fish that was a fun one that was
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: a really fun episode. And then I talked about oh
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: and Yanni did in my home state. In his home state,
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: Yannie did the um the fishing trip that elicits eye
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: rolls for many people, which is when a thing happens
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: in a thing happens in Michigan where you get the
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: heckx hatch and they'll cover your garage door. If you
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: have like an overhead light above your garage, you'll wake
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: up in the morning and mayflies are covering your garage door.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: There's like local legend of the roads getting so slick
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: with mayfly smashed mayflies that cars careen off the road
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: and crash. It's a real thing. Bringing out the snowplows
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: to clear him. Yeah, big ass you know, uh, big
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: ass mayflies, and ever you'd see him, and ever you
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: talk about how sometimes you know, yeah, you gotta snowplow
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: of the roads to get the may fid which I
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: never saw happen, but it's like a thing I've heard
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: about it. I always thought that had to be. And
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: when you go up to fish the hecks hatch, which
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: we did, you go up and you stay in the
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: dark and get mulled by mosquitoes and you listen to
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: a fish, not an angle in the dark, and you're like,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, cast over that one. It sounded like
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: it was that sounded like it was out in the river. Yeah,
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: goes and does that fish. So he goes, but he
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: went with the dude who actually has success that. It's
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: not the kind of thing that I didn't growing up there.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: It didn't strike me as the kind of thing that
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: you just went up and did on a whim. It
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: seemed like the kind of thing you've got to kind
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: of like study it. Yeah, there's a lot to it. Well,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: I think trying to target any hatch there, there's so
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: many factors as to win those those insects hatch and
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: when the fish choose to eat them that you gotta
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: be really dialed into even give yourself a chance. And
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: even then it's a crap shoot. Yeah, Like, but climbing
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: down off some bridge, waiting through the mosquitoes and staying
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: in the dart down there listening, it's hard to be like, yeah,
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: I will stay till one or two. Have you tried, Yeah, yeah,
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: I'll say until one or two, I don't know, maybe daybreak.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Then about eleven you're like, yeah, I'm gold this sucks,
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: let's go. I think I heard one. Yeah, yeah, we
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: definitely gave Johnnie the short straw on that one. Well
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: he winds out with the tanker. I don't want to
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to ruin the st in
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: the story. And that's the episodes. Yeah, we got six episodes.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: I think we got them all. Talk about how they
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: how they how people can go watch them. These are
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: gonna start. The first one is gonna be available starting
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: to They are on the meat Eater YouTube channel or
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: you can get there through the website, the mediata dot com.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna keep releasing them every week, a new
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: episode every week till we run out every Sunday at
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: I think eleven am, Montana time. So check him out
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: whether if you like the first season, definitely check him out.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: If you didn't see the first season, go back, catch
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: up and watch a second season. Doss Boat season two,
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: dose Boat. I couldn't call it dosebot because and people
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: will be able to find it. Yeah, we weren't allowed to.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: We worked it in there. You worked it. I gotta
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: say you worked it. I didn't come up with it.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: You didn't know should I come up with that? I
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: don't know who came I think Josh Pristine came up
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: with comes up with all kinds of funny little sentences. Yeah,
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: that would make always time. He works best, uh, sub sentence,
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: he works best shorter than a sentence. He's very good
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: at when it comes to putting one or two words together.
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: He excels. Not there's anything wrong with his sentences, but
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: he does. Partial sentences is where his sweet spot sits. Yeah,
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: it's all that marketing background. Yeah, brevity quick two words,
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: one word, two words. That was a good one. That
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: was a good one. All right, Oliver, thanks for coming by.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: These are having great to have you here. Yeah, you
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: participated in a bunch of our stuff. Now that's right.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that because you're doing awesome things. And uh,
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: real quick, tell people how to go find out about
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: you if they want to see your stuff. Oh gosh,
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: take pick your poison hopefully met here dot com right
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: dost boat seasons one and two. Uh, there's a lot
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: of me on YouTube, Instagram. What's your handle on social
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: so you can find me on my personal handles. It's
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: just Oliver and Ny it's spelled m g Y. And
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: then you can look at a bunch of the big
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: bass stream stuff we've done as well. When people mess
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: up your last name, where do they go with? Oh gosh,
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a crap shoot. Just give me one
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: naggy uh nig nigge new win. I don't know where
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: to get that wrong, it's n g y. I think
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: you're underselling them, and like, it's not just you got
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: Big Bass Dreams. There's Big Cod Dreams like you got.
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: If you're interested in seeing Oliver and his friends catch
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: giant fish, you can see them do it all over
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: the world. Big Pike, big murray cod, big baron Mundy.
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: It's YouTube channel where you yeah put fishing stuff. Yeah, absolutely,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: So the Big Bass Dreams channel has the most of it.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: And then I launched my own personal channel this year
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: as well. So there's even big Whitep Dreams on their
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: Big Blue Eel Dreams. I mean, if it's if it's catchable,
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: we want the biggest one. I mean that's that's the point, right,
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's pretty wild. You and I find
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: real annoying about travel fishing pages on Instagram. No tell me,
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: people don't tell you what the freaking species is. It's like, hey,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: my PB, my record best, whatever you wanna call. Yeah,
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: I follow h Rob Allen spear fishing, Yeah, spear fishing Africa.
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: It's like a lot of the South African company. I'm like,
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: if you would just start out but tell me what
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: I am looking at, I would be appreciative. But I'm
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: just going through Oliver's page here and he does. I
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, I wonder what that fish has and
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: he actually says it's spotted baybass, so he's good about it.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: It's a total so cawfish there, so there's a who
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: little subculture of that that's cool. He lives in Southern
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: College's pretty fish. Yeah, super bad ouncer ounced probably the
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: hardest fighting and tenacious fish I've encountered. And one of
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: the things I appreciated, like when you were done in
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: Australia and you were catching all those cool fish, you
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: didn't just say what they were, but you dive into
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: some of the basic biology of those fish and why
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: they were interesting. And like, I mean, I don't even wrong,
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: I like big fish, but having that extra context of
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: why they're cool just to me augments the experience of
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: seeing it. Yeah, and I'm looking at you right here,
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: is that a giant snakehead. No, I was looking at
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: the skin of something. It's like as close as it's
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: a big small mouthballs was looking at the corner of
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: the skin. Yeah, that is a that things so fat.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: It's not not a real good looking fish. Whole ton
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: of fish up. Don't shame the fish. Sweet. I'm checking
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: you out online right now and you're sitting right here.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: It's like metaphysical alright, guys, Joe guy, I know your
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: way over there and wherever the hell get it that
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: you want to add. No, they just it was really
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: fun to be a part of the new dost boat
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: and awesome trip and I'm I'm really excited for this
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: to come out. Kevin Harlander. Yeah, same, you're so distracted
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: by wanting to go hunt. Yeah, I know, I'm getting
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: itchy over here. Um, they actually let me be a part.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: That was a fun trip. Oliver is great to fish
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: with you and and uh see that intensity. Man, it
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: was awesome. So looking forward to seeing what comes of it.
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 1: If it's not too late, I'm gonna have If it's
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: not too late, I'm gonna get in there and try
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: to have a beat that you catch a couple of
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: blue Yeah, yeah, I get that edit in there, I'm
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: gonna have scour. I'm gonna have to scour the footage
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: and I'll tackle on it. Oliver, you and I need
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: to fish together, man, We need to make that happen. Absolutely.
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about it later today. We shall, alright, guys.
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone,